Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is always a
Speaker 1: chipper and cheerful Charles W. Chuck Bryant Man, I'm going
Speaker 1: ten different directions, buddy. Yeah, I'm a little screwy, are you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll focus on this one. Okay, okay, because we're going
Speaker 1: on in one direction, and that's hate. I hate to focus. Okay.
Speaker 1: You hate broccoli. I do hate broccoli, and you know that.
Speaker 1: I also hate peas, like split peas. I remember declaring
Speaker 1: um as a child that peas are some of my
Speaker 1: most hated enemies. I think a lot of kids don't
Speaker 1: like peas because they're mushy. Yeah. Well that's the problem
Speaker 1: with all vegetables. Really, they're mushy, they're overcooked if you
Speaker 1: cook something. No, I've had pretty nasty broccoli. But broccoli,
Speaker 1: it's all that's separate. It's just disgusting in every single way.
Speaker 1: But cream spinach, I love that. It's awesome. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: good stuff. You and I shared a cream spinach at
Speaker 1: Morton steak. That's recently two ladies. Yeah, it was something
Speaker 1: we couldn't even finish. It was so rich. It was
Speaker 1: really good, So Chuck, we don't hate cream spinach, I
Speaker 1: hate broccoli and um. One of the things I hate
Speaker 1: more than anything else is not having an intro, which
Speaker 1: I don't because I was looking online and strangely they're
Speaker 1: The online world is a repository for hate in a
Speaker 1: certain way, as in like, um, neo Nazi punk bands
Speaker 1: not huh, this article calls it pop music pop music, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: or you know Facebook groups dedicated to hate, like you know,
Speaker 1: Holocaust denial and that kind of stuff. Sure, Um, but
Speaker 1: this word is so ubiquitous in our culture that there
Speaker 1: was nothing there. Like I found a guy um and
Speaker 1: dairy and mass who was accused of hate crime. Um,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to know why, um, Cleveland fans hate Lebron.
Speaker 1: I can answer that. But I mean, like, we throw
Speaker 1: this word around like the you know, some reality TV
Speaker 1: series was the show you love to hate? Right? Um.
Speaker 1: We we use this word a lot. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: found a study out of the University of Texas that
Speaker 1: that asked people how often they hated and um, nobody
Speaker 1: said every day. It's not an everyday thing. So like
Speaker 1: we we hate things mc brockley, but we also realized
Speaker 1: that there's a real distinction between hating something and experiencing
Speaker 1: actual hate. You hit it on the head, and this
Speaker 1: is a pretty old distinction, right, Like, like philosophers have
Speaker 1: have been aware of this before. I think Aristotle was
Speaker 1: pretty sure he hated peas, but he really hated him Lock. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He and he's not Webster, so I will read his
Speaker 1: definition because he's Aristotle. Uh. He said it was a
Speaker 1: dislike for someone based on our negative perception of that
Speaker 1: person's nature. That is so intense that whoever feels it
Speaker 1: wants to cause real harm to another, Like I really
Speaker 1: want to harm you. Yeah, so that's the difference, Like Pete,
Speaker 1: like you said, people throw that word around. I hate broccoli,
Speaker 1: but you're not gonna go out and try and burn
Speaker 1: down broccoli farms. No, I know that's silly. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna go burn down Cubby BROCCOLI's family's broccoli farm. It
Speaker 1: was used to fund the James Bond movies. But Josh,
Speaker 1: I think, and this is me surmising in my own
Speaker 1: personal purview, I think there are kind of two types
Speaker 1: of hate, well three types really. Then one type that
Speaker 1: you just throw the word around like I hate that show,
Speaker 1: I hate broccoli. One that is real hate, which I
Speaker 1: think is fear based when you don't know someone personally
Speaker 1: or a group personally, where you hate a group of people.
Speaker 1: And then there's like the anger retribution based hate, like
Speaker 1: someone personally has wronged you so badly that you hate
Speaker 1: them and and cause and either want to cause or
Speaker 1: which ill upon them. Right, Well, you just brought up
Speaker 1: a huge can of worms by using the word anger.
Speaker 1: Like there's a real debate over whether hate and anger
Speaker 1: are the same thing, right, right, They say they're not.
Speaker 1: It depends on who you talk to. But the people
Speaker 1: who say they're not say things like UM, hate is
Speaker 1: brought on by humiliation or ill treatment or being devalued.
Speaker 1: Where anger is brought on when you're when you're treated
Speaker 1: UM in a way that you consider unfairly. Right, right,
Speaker 1: anger is the result of UM not having any recourse. Right,
Speaker 1: frustration perhaps coupled with that right and that that kind
Speaker 1: of dances along the border because people who hate, you know,
Speaker 1: other groups often are frustrated. Like when we talked about
Speaker 1: the fast sism in the fascism podcast Getting Um Getting
Speaker 1: groups all riled up against a scapegoat is one of
Speaker 1: the tenets of fascism, right, And so these people are
Speaker 1: frustrated at their lot in life, their unemployments high because
Speaker 1: of the Jews or something like that, Right, But really
Speaker 1: they're not. They're they're angry about their job while they
Speaker 1: hate the Jews. So the two are really intertwined. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people think if you look at
Speaker 1: them deeply enough, they're not one and the same. Well,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times that kind of hate
Speaker 1: is displaced anger and frustration at your own you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there is there is also a very um strong
Speaker 1: physiological basis to it as well. I mean, it's an
Speaker 1: emotion supposedly, although it's not one of the basic emotions.
Speaker 1: Anger is Yeah, what are the basic emotions? Anger? Joy,
Speaker 1: fear discussed and peckishness. I thought it was joy, pain,
Speaker 1: sunshine and rain. No is that Rob bass No? I
Speaker 1: can't remember. I could sing it, but I can't remember
Speaker 1: sing it. No, no, no, I think it's Rob Basse.
Speaker 1: No it was it was a duo. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of uh, I want money, lots and lots
Speaker 1: of money. That was a duo to be rich. Remember
Speaker 1: that stupid song? Yeah, kind of. They wrote a song
Speaker 1: about being rich. Oh yeah, how great it was, and
Speaker 1: that was their only song. So unless they were already
Speaker 1: rich than they never were from that song that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does just blew my mind, buddy. So do you
Speaker 1: hate that song? Uh? I do now because it's in
Speaker 1: my head. So, Chuck, what is this um physiological basis
Speaker 1: of anger? Well, it's pointed out in the article within
Speaker 1: an Iron Maiden song, which I thought was an odd choice.
Speaker 1: There's a thin line between love and hate. Yeah, It's
Speaker 1: like there's a whole other song called There's a thin
Speaker 1: Line between Love and Hate. Well, there's a much more
Speaker 1: popular song, I think, the Persuaders, which was It's a
Speaker 1: thin line between Love and hate, the old Motown song. Right.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the Pretender's version of it? No,
Speaker 1: it's hands down the greatest version ever. Really is a
Speaker 1: thin yea between love and Hey, the Pretenders covered the
Speaker 1: Persuaders and yep, all right, I'm telling you all right.
Speaker 1: So apparently Iron Maiden actually listen to that song on
Speaker 1: YouTube the other day and it's a it's an Iron
Speaker 1: Maiden song. Yeah, now I looked it up to make
Speaker 1: sure that Iron maidenheading covered the persuaders, and uh no,
Speaker 1: Bruce Dickinson came up with his own lyrics, his own version.
Speaker 1: He's like, that one's fine. I'm doing this one. That's right.
Speaker 1: So the point of all this, Josh, is that there
Speaker 1: is a thin line between love and hate as far
Speaker 1: as uh the brain goes. Because um, in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, there was a study at the University College
Speaker 1: of London and that's in the UK, and um, they
Speaker 1: got seventeen people, not very wide ranging. I had a
Speaker 1: lot of problems with this study, but they got seventeen
Speaker 1: people who say they hated someone else. Maybe that's why
Speaker 1: they maybe have a hard time finding someone who hates
Speaker 1: someone else. Maybe not because I don't hate anyone. I
Speaker 1: was about to ask you that. Well, we'll get to
Speaker 1: the personal stuff in a minute. So this study, what
Speaker 1: they did was they found seventeen people who hated someone else,
Speaker 1: threw them under the old wonder machine and looked showed
Speaker 1: him pictures of the people they hated. Which is so
Speaker 1: funny to record the results. I guess they're like, you
Speaker 1: need to bring pictures of people you hate. For the study, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they could have just said think of the person you hate,
Speaker 1: I think, and it would achieve the same goal, I guess.
Speaker 1: So anyway, they what they found out was that a
Speaker 1: couple of regions in the brain there's like a hate circuit.
Speaker 1: They call it there the pudament okay, and the Jerry
Speaker 1: laughed at that, and the insular cortex in both fired
Speaker 1: up with pictures of people that they hated, right, And
Speaker 1: the significance of this is that both of those regions
Speaker 1: also fire up when you see picture or think about
Speaker 1: someone you love, which is the longest way to say.
Speaker 1: It's a thin line between Lemon hates, right, and I
Speaker 1: think everybody kind of senses that. It's like um when
Speaker 1: passions flaring are it's virtually the same thing. There are
Speaker 1: two sides of one coin. In my opinion, if you
Speaker 1: truly hate somebody, the real hate to fear is not
Speaker 1: one where somebody's like, oh I hate you so much,
Speaker 1: you know, because that that can be turned. That means
Speaker 1: that they have some sort of emotional connection to you.
Speaker 1: The one to be afraid of is the detached, calm,
Speaker 1: cool kind of hatred, because that's the one where you
Speaker 1: end up dead somewhere like I'm the Green River killer
Speaker 1: and I hate prostitutes. Well, that brings up an interesting sidebar, right, Um,
Speaker 1: do serial killers hate their victims? No? End of sidebar. Well,
Speaker 1: they have long said that serial killers don't experience emotion
Speaker 1: on that scale, but they're starting to uh to change
Speaker 1: their thinking in certain cases because a lot of serial
Speaker 1: killers suffer from antisocial personality disorder, and people who suffer
Speaker 1: from that experience a range of emotions. So it's not
Speaker 1: always I think it's it's both. You know that not
Speaker 1: you can't say every serial killer it's the same. Well,
Speaker 1: they've been saying that for a long time. They've been
Speaker 1: trying to find the threads that connect them. And I
Speaker 1: told you about the sociologist I talked to. He was
Speaker 1: just really up in arms that psychology has spent for
Speaker 1: decades or so looking at serial killers and investing come
Speaker 1: up with his anti personal any social personality disorder. He's like,
Speaker 1: of course they have a personality disorder, they're serial killers.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. So back to that study though,
Speaker 1: about the brain and the difference between love and hate,
Speaker 1: and they did see, um, a difference, a key difference
Speaker 1: because the areas of the frontal cortex associated with judgment
Speaker 1: and critical thinking become less active when you see someone
Speaker 1: you love of on the f m R I machine,
Speaker 1: But when you saw someone you hate, most of your
Speaker 1: frontal cortex cortex cortex is active, remains active. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's a big difference. But that makes sense as well, Chuck,
Speaker 1: because I mean, if you see I know, you don't
Speaker 1: hate anybody, so you wouldn't understand this. But when you
Speaker 1: see someone you hate, you just like it's a personality,
Speaker 1: you just you you you tend to criticize them in
Speaker 1: your head, like, oh, you're wearing that sweater today. You
Speaker 1: look so fat and stupid in that sweater. I hope
Speaker 1: you somehow get did you strangle yourself on that sweater? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So the point is that it takes like hatred is
Speaker 1: an active thing. It's an active rumination on this. It's
Speaker 1: not a knee jerk thing like when you might see
Speaker 1: a picture of someone you love. All right, So that's interesting, right,
Speaker 1: that's what that study came up with the set of
Speaker 1: the seventeen people. Yeah, with the this Yeah, it couldn't
Speaker 1: get you know. And the other problem is I'm sure
Speaker 1: they were um weird western educated Uh deed something rich
Speaker 1: and developed carrel, what the eye stands for? And what
Speaker 1: would you just spell weird? It's basically like the idea
Speaker 1: that all of these studies that cited are cited. A
Speaker 1: lot of them are they're just college kids. So it's
Speaker 1: like this really narrow niche of the human population that
Speaker 1: they extrapolate onto good point and in this case they
Speaker 1: just use seventeen of them. Well, we're here to report
Speaker 1: it and then criticize it, and we're done. We did both,
Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. What what's the deal with like old hate? Though?
Speaker 1: Like don't they have some inclination of like early hate
Speaker 1: with Caveman and the like? Well, yeah, because parts of
Speaker 1: the you know, the closer to the center or the
Speaker 1: brain stem that you get in the brain, the more
Speaker 1: ancient that part of the brain is. And if there's
Speaker 1: a region like the pew tamin that's associated with a
Speaker 1: certain thing e g. Hate, then that means that hate's
Speaker 1: been around for a very long time because they are
Speaker 1: part of the brain. Uh has been able to carry
Speaker 1: out that function for this song or should ostensibly got
Speaker 1: you right, but then it's also new with the prefrontal
Speaker 1: cortex which is a fairly newer aspect. So maybe we
Speaker 1: just hated, but we didn't criticize. We just hated. And
Speaker 1: they think possibly that we developed hate as a species
Speaker 1: or a capacity to hate as a survival mechanism way
Speaker 1: back in hunter gatherer days, where we could feel justified
Speaker 1: by say, taking food from another group because we hated them,
Speaker 1: which I actually found pretty that's a pretty inspiring idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that you had to work up hate enough to go
Speaker 1: in pillage. I think that's kind of neat because it
Speaker 1: makes it seem like we aren't naturally hateful beings, and
Speaker 1: I don't think we are. I believe everybody had hate,
Speaker 1: and everyone has a vast capacity to hate, but I
Speaker 1: don't I wouldn't characterize this as generally hateful. That's good.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of surprised to hear you say that that's
Speaker 1: true though. Alright, So, uh, it's in the Bible, Josh,
Speaker 1: It's an ancient text all over the place. Hate's been
Speaker 1: around a long time. M Right. We canna talk about Carthage, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I know you love this. The Carthaginian general, Hannibal Carthaginian,
Speaker 1: and you gotta stop that Hannibal pledged to his father, Dad,
Speaker 1: I hate Rome, I hate Romans. I don't like the Italians.
Speaker 1: I hate them forever, and I will swear retribution because
Speaker 1: they have seized our provinces. He said, father, yes, son,
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill the Romans. And he did. He
Speaker 1: made good on that, invaded Italy and did quite a
Speaker 1: bit of damage. Of course, the Romans fired back because
Speaker 1: they hate the Carthage. Why can't say that word? They
Speaker 1: hated people from Carthage, the Carthagenians, and in one PC
Speaker 1: they did some pretty bad things like burning them in
Speaker 1: their houses while they screamed. But does that hate, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And that's a I think that's an
Speaker 1: issue that I have um here there with this is
Speaker 1: that there? That's kind of a jump to conclusion, Like
Speaker 1: is it hate? I don't know. It does hate form
Speaker 1: the basis for war or horrible acts in war? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's it's condemned pretty much in
Speaker 1: like the New Testament in the Bible, it's condemned in
Speaker 1: the Koran. Uh, let not hatred of the people incite
Speaker 1: you not to act equitably, And in uh Medieval and
Speaker 1: Renaissance Europe you came up in you but in Italy
Speaker 1: they came up with the vendetta, which is uh, very
Speaker 1: much retribution for the hatred. There you go, I I
Speaker 1: let's see, that's what I'm saying. Like I think, let's
Speaker 1: say a Roman soldier comes to your town while you're
Speaker 1: away using the the latrine pit that your village has dug,
Speaker 1: and they burn your family alive in your house while
Speaker 1: you're using the bathroom. And you come back and you
Speaker 1: see the Roman legions going away and your family is dead,
Speaker 1: burned the crisps. Right. Um. I don't think the Romans
Speaker 1: necessarily felt hatred to commit that act, but that act
Speaker 1: would incite hatred in the person that it befell. So
Speaker 1: I think of vendetta is an excellent example of hatred
Speaker 1: because somebody done, you're wrong and you're gonna get back
Speaker 1: at them, or they did something to your father or
Speaker 1: something you The vendetta is very long lasting from what
Speaker 1: I understand. Yeah, and it's not I mean, this is
Speaker 1: obviously we're talking about mafia vendetta's and war vendetta's, but
Speaker 1: it can happen on a smaller level. You might not
Speaker 1: think of it as vendetta though, but if someone done
Speaker 1: you really wrong, and you're like, I'm gonna get that
Speaker 1: person back by doing this and six months and they
Speaker 1: least expected that's a vendetta. But you you don't call
Speaker 1: it a vendetta. It's just uh, well in in Italy,
Speaker 1: they it's just come up it, sir, Um, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get you suck a bad people do that though. There
Speaker 1: was a word for it though in medieval and Renaissance Europe,
Speaker 1: in the Messiah, which is Latin for un friendship, it
Speaker 1: was a legal term for hating somebody. Okay, so what
Speaker 1: we've done is established that hatred is definitely a thing
Speaker 1: that's been around a long time. Is that what we've done? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and chuck, of course it's still around, um in recent
Speaker 1: modern history. There's other examples that we could go into,
Speaker 1: like hate groups. Yeah, well, let's talk about the Nazis
Speaker 1: real quick, because again we talked about fascism and one
Speaker 1: of the tenets of it being, um, I guess, inciting
Speaker 1: other group to hate. Yeah, group hate. That's that's where
Speaker 1: we are for sure. And a lot of that that
Speaker 1: gave a lot of a body of data for people
Speaker 1: to study and that they're still studying. But um, one
Speaker 1: guy in particular named Martin Oppenheimer, is a sociologist from
Speaker 1: Rutgers University. UM. It was basically said, like, look, the
Speaker 1: Nazis are proof positive that you can number one, get
Speaker 1: an entire group to hate another group, and that you
Speaker 1: do this by um identifying and exploiting the group that
Speaker 1: you're with their frustrations, say unemployment, joblessness, and then basically saying,
Speaker 1: those are the people who are at fault. That's how
Speaker 1: you store the pot exactly. That's how you incite hatred,
Speaker 1: which is gotta be one of the worst things you
Speaker 1: can do. One of the worst non violent acts I
Speaker 1: think a person commit is insite hatred, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also I thought what came to mind to me
Speaker 1: when I was reading this was some of these same tactics,
Speaker 1: like a marginalized people, people who are in a cure,
Speaker 1: who are seeking safety somewhere. It's also the kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing they do with the cults and the brainwashing.
Speaker 1: They're seeking out these same types of people and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: you feel marginalized, you feel like you're not loved, you
Speaker 1: need a safe haven. But they're not saying go hate
Speaker 1: someone else. They're saying, just come and be with our group, well,
Speaker 1: our our association of like in group and out group
Speaker 1: is like this emotional psychological razor blade that can be
Speaker 1: exploited in any number of ways exactly, you know, but
Speaker 1: it's always a marginalized people. It seems like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: or there, But you mean the people who are stirred,
Speaker 1: who have hatred stirred up in them. Yeah, or go
Speaker 1: join a cult or something like that. Yeah, you mean teenagers?
Speaker 1: And uh, well, at Stanford study in two thousand and
Speaker 1: ten basically said hey, if you want to um teach
Speaker 1: teenagers to hate, here's how you do it. You can't
Speaker 1: just overtly say go hate this group, you know, hate Muslims,
Speaker 1: hate black people, hate Jewish people, hate gays. You can't
Speaker 1: just say that it's not good enough. But if you
Speaker 1: tell a story that basically implies this is these are
Speaker 1: people you should hate and here's why, right, like um,
Speaker 1: homosexuals or Petter asks, and so you know you can't
Speaker 1: let them into certain groups, and by the way, you
Speaker 1: should hate them because of the story. Right then I
Speaker 1: think that I had a problem with that one because
Speaker 1: it was like, that's true for everything. If you tell
Speaker 1: the story, it's gonna hit home or personally to somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't say, hey, go love uh Sea Biscuit because
Speaker 1: he ran a horse race that was pretty neat. But
Speaker 1: if you tell the story of Sea Biscuit all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're gonna leave that thing going. Man, I'm
Speaker 1: getting my butt to the Kentucky Derby next year because
Speaker 1: I love me some horse racing. I love Sea Biscuit.
Speaker 1: See he saw the movie, right, No, I didn't um
Speaker 1: the But the funny thing is is that that whole
Speaker 1: that study made the careers of two Stanford researchers so right.
Speaker 1: But they do have a point because they point out
Speaker 1: in this article, or they don't, but we do. Um.
Speaker 1: D W. Griffith's awful um movie awful on content. Birth
Speaker 1: of a Nation from nineteen fifteen. It's no Sea Biscuit.
Speaker 1: It's no Sea Biscuit, but it did a really good
Speaker 1: job of getting people to hate black people in the
Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, doesn't it feature like the Well, since
Speaker 1: it was nineteen fifteen, it's like the first and everything.
Speaker 1: But it's like the first on screen rape uh or
Speaker 1: implied rape. There was a rape of a white woman
Speaker 1: by like an escaped slave I think by a white
Speaker 1: actor in black Face of course at the time, and um,
Speaker 1: it was a big, huge movie. It grows ten million
Speaker 1: dollars in nineteen fifteen. That's two hundred million. That's two
Speaker 1: sixteen million dollars today, is what grows. Yeah. And it
Speaker 1: was based on a play, Yeah, it is. This based
Speaker 1: on a play in a book called The Klansman. And
Speaker 1: d W. Griffith felt so bad about this afterward that
Speaker 1: he made a follow up film that you're called Intolerance,
Speaker 1: which was a three hour silent film meditation on uh
Speaker 1: four parallel stories of man's intolerance throughout history. Oh. I
Speaker 1: didn't know he did that. That's good, Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: want to like d W. Griffith. Yeah, I mean, he
Speaker 1: didn't write Birth of the Nation, so he directed it.
Speaker 1: Not like getting him off the hook or anything, but
Speaker 1: I think at the time he was just trying to
Speaker 1: make a movie that sold lot of tickets and that
Speaker 1: was the way to do it. Yeah, that's the way
Speaker 1: to do it. And then the Nazi of course, anyone
Speaker 1: who saw Inglorious Bastards knows that Gebel's, Joseph Gebel's was
Speaker 1: in charge of, you know, the propaganda department with feature films,
Speaker 1: and they had one called Judd Seuss. Is it Judd
Speaker 1: or you'd probably it'd be you'd seous. So you're the
Speaker 1: one who speaks to German. And how did you say
Speaker 1: Judd Seuss? I don't know. I was concentrating on the
Speaker 1: umlaut part and that's just okay. So yeah, but that
Speaker 1: featured a main character, a Jewish main character who was
Speaker 1: shunned by a gentile woman and so he raped her,
Speaker 1: among other things, and it was required viewing for the Stormtroopers.
Speaker 1: They loved it. And then they give him crystal meth.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, from what I understand, that will do it. Um.
Speaker 1: And that didn't just go out with the Nazis. UM
Speaker 1: media has been playing like more and more of a
Speaker 1: role UM among I guess hate groups tred as a
Speaker 1: as a concept and as a practice, right yeah, because um,
Speaker 1: I think in the nineties, Uh, Bosnian Serb TV showed
Speaker 1: UM something that's kind of referred to now as like
Speaker 1: a basically hate mongering UM series called Genocide that stir
Speaker 1: up emotion against the Bosnian Muslims. Right yeah, uh and
Speaker 1: and uh, well you know what happened with that in
Speaker 1: the Balkan War. Yeah. Alqaed has done similar things on
Speaker 1: the web. Obviously, the web is a good place to
Speaker 1: to go try and get this thing done these days.
Speaker 1: And they have chat rooms, they have terrans. With Facebook's
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly um available for people who have UM hate
Speaker 1: based ideologies. Um, and Facebook is like, look, we can't
Speaker 1: we can't do. I mean, we'll find them and shut
Speaker 1: them down and when we when we can, but like
Speaker 1: they're all over the place. Yeah, um and then uh
Speaker 1: also chuck pop music. Yeah, they called the pop music.
Speaker 1: And the reason I know I can't call it pop music,
Speaker 1: it's because I've seen some of those specials and I
Speaker 1: saw really good when I can't remember on neo Nazis
Speaker 1: and they have you know, they have musical groups that
Speaker 1: are neo Nazi songs and they just sing about hating
Speaker 1: other people and it's you know, it's aggressive music. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not pop. There's no sense. No, it's not handsome.
Speaker 1: So um chuck. The article begs a pretty um interesting question.
Speaker 1: I think um is hate a mental illness, because you know,
Speaker 1: don't you have to be slightly mentally ill to burn
Speaker 1: down a house with an entire family trapped inside? Or
Speaker 1: maybe you're just following orders? Okay, Yeah, excellent. I think
Speaker 1: you just hit upon it. Our understanding of hate is incomplete,
Speaker 1: because our understanding of the things that we do that
Speaker 1: we associate with hate is also incomplete. Are you just
Speaker 1: following orders? Are you being whipped up into a mob mentality?
Speaker 1: Do you actually hate this other group because you lost
Speaker 1: your job? Or is this emotion just being exploited by
Speaker 1: someone else, a third party? Um? I I And also
Speaker 1: I think our understanding of mental illness isn't refined enough
Speaker 1: to say yes, hates the product of a mental illness. Sure,
Speaker 1: because they referenced Um Hitler and Osama bin Laden as
Speaker 1: two people they suspect might have been mentally ill um
Speaker 1: or at least anti social. And they also referenced the
Speaker 1: Columbine shooters as one of them suffered from depression and
Speaker 1: they had these hate filled rants that they ended up finding.
Speaker 1: And was there a link between that depression and hatred? Right?
Speaker 1: And I guess the the that begs the question like
Speaker 1: did they were they? So? Was Osama bin Laden and
Speaker 1: Hitler and Dylan Klebold like so wrapped up in hatred
Speaker 1: that they were crazy? Or was um hatred a byproduct
Speaker 1: of you know, any mental illness? They may or may
Speaker 1: not have had. These are questions we don't know. But
Speaker 1: my whole idea that hatred is brought out when you
Speaker 1: are um mistreated by someone else is backed up by
Speaker 1: a two thousand study of people from Kosovo and those
Speaker 1: who have gone through the most trauma and stress hated
Speaker 1: the Serbian troops who'd um you know, borne that out
Speaker 1: on them more than other people who maybe had pleasant
Speaker 1: exchanges with Serbian troops. I guess that makes sense. We
Speaker 1: gotta mention hate crimes and hate groups briefly. Hate crime
Speaker 1: is obviously a crime carried out against somebody based on
Speaker 1: their skin color, their ethnicity, their national origin, their gender, disability,
Speaker 1: sexual orientation. Is when you hear a lot about yeah disabilities,
Speaker 1: A sad one because it took a while to um
Speaker 1: get that into hate crime bills. Oh really yeah interesting,
Speaker 1: but the Congress is past legislation now that makes hate
Speaker 1: crimes more serious offenses than just like a regular assault.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, which is pretty awesome. Yeah, and how it
Speaker 1: should be. I remember, um we in the there was
Speaker 1: a child safety law that was being passed in two
Speaker 1: thousands six, and there was a hate crime language that
Speaker 1: was attached to it that made um sexual orientation crimes
Speaker 1: hate crimes on a federal level, and there's a big
Speaker 1: outrage about it among religious groups. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: I think they were like, wait, we have a First
Speaker 1: Amendment freedom to hate gay people as part of our religion.
Speaker 1: You know, so you're you're saying that that that in
Speaker 1: and of itself is a hate crime. By saying like, no,
Speaker 1: these people are wrong, homosexuality is bad, it's wrong, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing, um, And that they thought that that
Speaker 1: kind of infringed on it, which I don't think it does,
Speaker 1: but that was their argument for a while. I don't
Speaker 1: think it worked. Interesting. Yeah, uh so I have a
Speaker 1: list here first, Josh, and then we have a couple
Speaker 1: more little stats um about hate groups since two thousand.
Speaker 1: The Southern Pretty Low Center claims that the US hate
Speaker 1: groups in the US has grown by more than and
Speaker 1: since since two thousand. Yeah, and they had the top
Speaker 1: five states with the biggest concentrations of hate groups. And
Speaker 1: this one was continued on the next page. And when
Speaker 1: I was reading it, I was like, please, Georgia, don't
Speaker 1: be on there, Please don't be on there. And it's
Speaker 1: not and we will count them down from five to
Speaker 1: create suspense Idaho is number five for hate groups. Evidently
Speaker 1: Wyoming is number four. You got Arkansas is number three,
Speaker 1: Mississippi is number two. Two from the south, and then um,
Speaker 1: number one according to the Southern Poverty Law Center is Montana. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's you know, Montana. Grab your guns, fellas. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Melissias in Montana. Yeah, but there's also
Speaker 1: a lot of like super chill cool like fly fish
Speaker 1: and uh, microbrew drinking hippies out there. It's an interesting mix.
Speaker 1: And I spent time there and I saw both in
Speaker 1: this town. That was I could feel the friction even
Speaker 1: between those groups, like with an Indian burn. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I was like I was out in a saloon and
Speaker 1: having a good time with some locals, and then a
Speaker 1: couple of like cowboys came in that didn't like the
Speaker 1: people from l A being in there, and you could,
Speaker 1: like definitely sense there's two different types of people in Montana.
Speaker 1: There's probably wasn't two, but I'm generalizing. No, there's two.
Speaker 1: There's just two. Okay, hate groups and hippies. So um, chuck,
Speaker 1: you've got some stance for us. Uh yeah, you dug
Speaker 1: this upright on who people hate? Acquaintances friends, family members
Speaker 1: twelve percent. That's sad, ex boyfriends and girlfriends twelve percent.
Speaker 1: And within the family, it's fathers are hated the most,
Speaker 1: at mothers at in laws, and siblings at three percent.
Speaker 1: That's kind of sweet. That's surprising to me, though, I
Speaker 1: would think siblings would be the highest because they're the
Speaker 1: ones that beat the tar out of you most frequently
Speaker 1: in most families. All right, so do you hate people?
Speaker 1: That's let's finish up with that. Um. I've found that
Speaker 1: the best way to hate somebody is to just check
Speaker 1: them off. So usual you'll write someone off but not
Speaker 1: have that active hatred. I I don't generally like I
Speaker 1: will just be like I can't believe you wore that sweater,
Speaker 1: you fat pig idiot in my head, But it's usually
Speaker 1: because I'm in like a bad mood about something else. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't walk around just actively hating people. It's a
Speaker 1: waste of time. It's a total waste of time. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't think I ever hated anybody at a
Speaker 1: situation and an ex girlfriend shacked up with one of
Speaker 1: one of my best friends after I moved state and
Speaker 1: we were broken up quote unquote, But I also was like,
Speaker 1: I'm coming back for you, like, you know, this isn't over.
Speaker 1: Were you going to find work? And California on West
Speaker 1: in my in my wagon? And they shacked up pretty
Speaker 1: quick after I left, and I had like a few
Speaker 1: years of like bad dreams and periodic bad dreams. I
Speaker 1: wasn't like every day I woke up thinking about it,
Speaker 1: but it faded away. But it was never even hate.
Speaker 1: It was just like, man, I gotta do that. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: It's just just like that's that sucks. Don't do that, friends.
Speaker 1: That's that's one end of the spectrum. The other end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum is like people who go and like
Speaker 1: kill those people, those two people, well yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: like former famous football stars, and that's that. I think
Speaker 1: it's all in the wiring. You're wired a certain way,
Speaker 1: and I'm not wired to to indulge those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: I suspect that all has to do with the amygdala,
Speaker 1: you know. All right, Well, if you want to learn
Speaker 1: more about the amygdala, you can type that word into
Speaker 1: the search bar at how stuff works dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also type in the word hate to bring up
Speaker 1: the article that we worked off of today. I should
Speaker 1: point out to Josh that I made with the dude
Speaker 1: years later and uh never made right with a girl.
Speaker 1: What does that say. I think it says that you
Speaker 1: hated the girl more. I just never felt the need
Speaker 1: to drudge that back up with her. But the dude,
Speaker 1: I was like, Man, you can't have like an old
Speaker 1: friend that you're not friends with anymore, at least I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't like that stuff. Yeah, man, I don't like
Speaker 1: that hanging over my head. Okay, try to make it right.
Speaker 1: That's what I say. You've done. Now I'm done. Sorry anyway,
Speaker 1: I think did I even say handy search part? You
Speaker 1: totally threw me off? All right, well, handy search bar?
Speaker 1: How stuff? First dot com? I said that, Chuck, So
Speaker 1: that means it's your turn for listener mail. Yes, Josh,
Speaker 1: this is on suicide bombing, and this Nick brings up
Speaker 1: a very good point that I think kind of fits
Speaker 1: in with this podcast. Hi, guys and Jerry. I think
Speaker 1: y'all are very brave for taking on the issue of
Speaker 1: suicide bombing. I don't know about brave, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to contribute too much to the delusion
Speaker 1: of anils, but I would like to say, you could
Speaker 1: have more explicitly underscored something that I believe is key
Speaker 1: to understanding suicide bombing and terrorism in general, both our
Speaker 1: weapons of the weak and the believer, sort of like
Speaker 1: our hate thing. Okay do you agree? Um? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean we've been said it's suicide bomb or cost
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty bucks exactly. He points out,
Speaker 1: if Palestinians, for instance, had access to predator drones and
Speaker 1: guided missile systems rather than rocks and slingshots, I don't
Speaker 1: think that Palestinians would resort to martyrdom. I would also
Speaker 1: point to suicide bombings carried out by the viet Men
Speaker 1: during the French occupation of Vietnam, or the example of
Speaker 1: Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, both of which movements were
Speaker 1: secular in nature. All I want to say is it
Speaker 1: seems like suicide bombings is a phenomenon often arising from
Speaker 1: situations in which there is a huge asymmetry of power
Speaker 1: between an occupying or apartheid resime regime or a native
Speaker 1: or a press popular Asian. You guys did mention this,
Speaker 1: but I think this dimension is at least as important
Speaker 1: to the issue as religion or notions of martyrdom um.
Speaker 1: That is sincerely from Nick and I kind of agree Nick,
Speaker 1: and Nick is a sharp tack. It's like right on
Speaker 1: the money. Yeah, thanks for that one. Wow. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if you think you're a sharp tack, we want to
Speaker 1: hear from you, right, Chuck, that's right, send us an
Speaker 1: email about anything at all, Anything at all. Two Stuff
Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to
Speaker 1: check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
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