Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four thirty eight of the Marine
Speaker 1: Layer Podcast. The trade deadline has passed and we'll give
Speaker 1: our thoughts on how the Mariners did and what lays
Speaker 1: ahead in the final two months of the season.
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Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling, and we've welcome this episode of
Speaker 1: the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network,
Speaker 1: recording here on Monday afternoon, August third. The trade deadline
Speaker 1: is over lyle and I will say I feel very neah.
Speaker 2: It's kind of my reaction just ugh. I don't even
Speaker 2: have a word for it.
Speaker 1: It just lines up with the Mariner season. The Mariner
Speaker 1: season this year has been kind of neh, kind of
Speaker 1: trade deadline has been kind of ne kind of.
Speaker 3: To which one of those.
Speaker 2: Both, well, especially the season. The season has not kind
Speaker 2: of been mad. The season has been has been a
Speaker 2: complete letdown, And I would put the trade deadline in
Speaker 2: a similar bucket.
Speaker 1: Well, the result of their season is that they're like
Speaker 1: essentially a five hundred baseball team, which really is just
Speaker 1: like a meh, that's that's what that is five hundred.
Speaker 2: Okay, But when your expectations are set preseason of you're
Speaker 2: gonna go to the World Series or have a really
Speaker 2: good chance, no, like the drop off there is more
Speaker 2: than me.
Speaker 1: Okay, fine, I will judge the season as a whole
Speaker 1: is a bigger disappointment than the trade deadline itself. The
Speaker 1: trade deadline is what we expected. We've been saying for weeks,
Speaker 1: this trade deadline was gonna be underwhelming, and then we
Speaker 1: can't just arrive to Monday afternoon after three o'clock and say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe how underwhelming that was, Like,
Speaker 1: is this not what we predicted?
Speaker 2: No, it totally is an underwhelming trade deadline paired with
Speaker 2: an underwhelming season.
Speaker 1: Just look at all the players that got traded. Like
Speaker 1: I'm scrolling through my Twitter feed of every single player
Speaker 1: they got moved. How many like really good players?
Speaker 2: You like?
Speaker 3: Dang it?
Speaker 1: Like, I'm heartbroken the Mariners didn't get that guy like
Speaker 1: Luke Weaver. Definitely, he's been amazing this year. Jeff Hoffman
Speaker 1: has all of the tools as a reliever to be
Speaker 1: a really good arm I mean, there's not really a
Speaker 1: bat out there that you're like, this is like, this
Speaker 1: is a perfect fit for the Mariners. This guy needs
Speaker 1: to be on this team. I'm disappointed they didn't get them.
Speaker 1: It's just like a whole lot of whatever. I think
Speaker 1: the Mariners could have gotten marginally better by adding some more,
Speaker 1: but there's there's just not a lot of good players available.
Speaker 2: No, no, there's not at all. And Jeff Hoffman, if
Speaker 2: you want to look further into what he's done since June,
Speaker 2: he's been really good. He's really turned it around since
Speaker 2: those first two months. How much you want to bet
Speaker 2: the Jeff Hoffman thing has everything to do with the
Speaker 2: contract he's owed and the Mariners not wanted to take
Speaker 2: on money.
Speaker 1: And Luke Weaver could be the exact same thing because
Speaker 1: they make the same amount of money.
Speaker 3: I would one hundred percent believe that.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's any coincidence that the money that
Speaker 1: the Mariner's subtracted by trading Luis Castile away and then
Speaker 1: added by trading for Taylor Ward, Sir Anthony Dominguez Nolan
Speaker 1: Jones is making some money as well. It nets out
Speaker 1: only slightly below what Louis Castile was owded.
Speaker 3: I don't really think that's much of a coincidence.
Speaker 2: Oh so you mean the Mariners wouldn't add to their payroll.
Speaker 2: What a shocker? Is that? What you mean? Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think the Maritas would add to the payroll,
Speaker 1: and it checks out. I mean, this front office and
Speaker 1: ownership group does not spend money on their bullpen at all,
Speaker 1: and this deadline kind of lines up with it. They've
Speaker 1: had their chance the last couple of deadlines to make
Speaker 1: a splash where they could have a reliever who makes
Speaker 1: above market rate value, but that never ended up happening.
Speaker 1: They never actually acquired any of those guys. There again,
Speaker 1: there's one guy. One guy ever Mariners have purposely signed
Speaker 1: and given a decent amount of change to to pitch
Speaker 1: in their bullpen, and he lasted four months on the
Speaker 1: roster and was traded away in Ryan Stanek.
Speaker 3: Ryan Stanek.
Speaker 1: Yes, and if Sir Anthony Domingez stays on this roster
Speaker 1: through next year, that will be two of them.
Speaker 3: But that's it.
Speaker 2: If you want to go back aways. Didn't they sign
Speaker 2: Juan Nicassio, who was also awful back in twenty eighteen?
Speaker 3: How much did they spend on him?
Speaker 2: I remember him getting a decent chunk of change. Juan
Speaker 2: Nicasio got a two year on tract that was worth
Speaker 2: seventeen million bucks.
Speaker 3: H goods, good point.
Speaker 1: Maybe he was the Maybe he's the PTSD of why
Speaker 1: they don't do it.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't think. I don't think one bad
Speaker 2: move should negate all future potential bullpen signings. But you
Speaker 2: know what, man, this goes back to a bigger picture,
Speaker 2: and I talked about it in the reaction we just
Speaker 2: put out on social media. This goes back to a
Speaker 2: problem the Mariners have now had for the last calendar
Speaker 2: year and have not addressed. They have still yet to address,
Speaker 2: and it is they are a leverage bullpen arm short,
Speaker 2: not a Sir Anthony Dominguez, not even a Jeff Hoffman,
Speaker 2: like I mean, maybe Jeff Hoffman two years ago would
Speaker 2: have fit this mold, not current. Jeff Hoffman, the guy
Speaker 2: they're missing, they still have not added, and they have
Speaker 2: not added him since they whiffed on Joe on Durant.
Speaker 2: They were this close to getting them. I think they
Speaker 2: thought the deal was done last year. I think they
Speaker 2: believed he was coming to Seattle, and then it got
Speaker 2: what's the right word, I mean it got wiped away
Speaker 2: last week.
Speaker 3: From under them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got the rug pulled last second when Philly
Speaker 2: came in last minute with a better deal in the
Speaker 2: Twins eyes. But since then they have not added that guy.
Speaker 2: And we knew this trade market was going to be weak.
Speaker 2: We knew this trade market was light. We knew it
Speaker 2: wasn't filled with household names, which is why we said
Speaker 2: all off season, you have got to go get that
Speaker 2: leverage arm. Jose Ferrara is not enough. I know he's
Speaker 2: had a nice season really up until the last two weeks,
Speaker 2: but you needed somebody more proven in addition to that
Speaker 2: to put in your bullpen, and it still doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: That's where you've run into problems. I am not heartbroken
Speaker 2: over missing on Luke Weaver and Jeff Hoffman. Would they
Speaker 2: have been nice additions for Seattle. Yes, the problem is
Speaker 2: you didn't address this earlier. You've been dealing with a
Speaker 2: leverage arm short in your bullpen all year and you're
Speaker 2: going to continue to deal with it because you couldn't
Speaker 2: address it at your deadline.
Speaker 1: And if the thing of the difference about approaching this
Speaker 1: during the off season versus approaching this in season is
Speaker 1: that you do have much more control in the off
Speaker 1: seat of who you're adding to your roster, who's available
Speaker 1: to add dear roster as opposed to the deadline. The
Speaker 1: deadline is a random assortment of players based on how
Speaker 1: their teams they're currently playing on are playing four months
Speaker 1: into the season. Meanwhile, everyone in the off season is
Speaker 1: just a free agent. You know they're going to be
Speaker 1: a free agent years and years in advance because that's
Speaker 1: how their contract is laid out. If you decide that
Speaker 1: you think it's a better strategy for your team to
Speaker 1: approach at the deadline, then you're going to run the
Speaker 1: risk of there just not being enough guys available. And frankly,
Speaker 1: the only guy that fell into the Duran bucket this
Speaker 1: trade deadline was Mason Miller, who didn't end up getting
Speaker 1: moved and Reportedly, the Padres were asking for Kate Anderson
Speaker 1: back for back for Mason Miller, which comes out to this,
Speaker 1: the Mariners are like, hey, we'd like Mason Miller, and
Speaker 1: AJ Preler goes okay, only if you just essentially reverse
Speaker 1: the trade I made last year, where you're gonna give
Speaker 1: us a top three prospect in all of baseball in
Speaker 1: turn for a closer with one last year of control,
Speaker 1: by the way, and of course the Mariners were never
Speaker 1: going to do that. That would be a terrible, terrible process.
Speaker 2: It's and that would be it would be Draft Day
Speaker 2: coming to life in real life where uh, Kevin Costner
Speaker 2: calls up the Seahawks He's like, I want my picks back,
Speaker 2: all of them, and A J. Preller is essentially doing
Speaker 2: the same thing and he's like, yeah, I want my
Speaker 2: I want a top prospect back, like top of the
Speaker 2: line prospect. Otherwise forget it. It's it was Draft Day
Speaker 2: coming to life. That's that's what that trade was, or
Speaker 2: the trade.
Speaker 1: So that was the only guy, and it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like he was very available. It seemed like they were
Speaker 1: only going to trade him for a crazy, crazy package.
Speaker 1: I'm sure the Mariners even offered one of their starters.
Speaker 1: It had been reported all day that Kirby and Hancock
Speaker 1: were still available and still on the table. He's the
Speaker 1: only guy I could have seen them trading him for,
Speaker 1: right who like not even like they weren't going to
Speaker 1: trade for adlei Utchman. Who was the other biggest name
Speaker 1: I think to be traded right well, But sadly it
Speaker 1: was Freddy Peralta.
Speaker 3: It was, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: I think those two guys were maybe the two biggest
Speaker 1: names besides Skill trade it at this deadline. And I
Speaker 1: think Mason Miller would have been the only guide that
Speaker 1: the Mariners could have justified trading one of those two
Speaker 1: starters for. And the Padres ended up trading for a
Speaker 1: starter anyway, in Casey myz Oh and Robbie Ray two
Speaker 1: rentals instead of going after guys with more control. So
Speaker 1: I think that kind of tells you, like maybe what
Speaker 1: the Mariner's idea were to try and get that leverage
Speaker 1: arm and when they couldn't get him, it was just
Speaker 1: gonna be not Really.
Speaker 2: Does it not feel like the Mariners were the ones
Speaker 2: that leaked out that reported trade package? Does to me,
Speaker 2: because let's be real, they're trying to save their skin
Speaker 2: a little bit. They did not want people clamoring and
Speaker 2: clamoring about why didn't you go trade for Mason Miller.
Speaker 2: They wanted that package leaked out there to try to
Speaker 2: show people, hey, this is why we didn't trade for him.
Speaker 2: Which fine. I don't think anybody disagrees about the notion
Speaker 2: of not trading Kate Anderson for Mason Miller. I think
Speaker 2: everybody believes that that would have been a bad trade
Speaker 2: or would have been an overpay at the very least.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't It doesn't excuse you from the fact
Speaker 2: that you still haven't added this leverage arm. If you
Speaker 2: didn't like the price for Mason Miller, fine, but you
Speaker 2: had a whole off season to figure this out, and
Speaker 2: it didn't even have to be through free agency. If
Speaker 2: you weren't going to sign a bullpen arm, there still
Speaker 2: could have been a trade that you could have made
Speaker 2: for a bullpen arm in the off season. And the
Speaker 2: difference between the off season and now is you didn't
Speaker 2: have a clock you were going up against. You could
Speaker 2: have figured this out for four months time, and after
Speaker 2: they added Jose Ferrara, they essentially decided we're good. Well,
Speaker 2: you're not good especially after you decided to run out
Speaker 2: a six man rotation and put extra emphasis on all
Speaker 2: these bullpen arms, and now some of them are starting
Speaker 2: to feel like have the air come out of the
Speaker 2: balloon a little bit? Bizarno for Rare. Obviously you don't
Speaker 2: have Brash and Chriswell, they're on the il like this
Speaker 2: is where we're at.
Speaker 1: Man, I wonder if the Mariners were ever interested in
Speaker 1: Luke Weaver or Jeff Hoffe, or they weren't even on
Speaker 1: the table. I mean, I don't even There wasn't much
Speaker 1: connecting them to those two guys publicly, right.
Speaker 2: No, And the Mariners sometimes keep things pretty close to
Speaker 2: the vest. We hadn't heard anything about Ward other than
Speaker 2: really us and other people talking about them and floating
Speaker 2: the idea out there.
Speaker 3: The Mariners aren't the opposite pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the Mariners aren't like the Mets. The Mets
Speaker 2: let reports leak and leak and leak and leak, and
Speaker 2: then if finally something happens. When the Mariners have something happen,
Speaker 2: it's usually just that passing reports it and there's a
Speaker 2: passing bomb basically, So that's how it usually goes.
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna guess how the Mariners approach the reliever
Speaker 1: part of this deadline they're gonna put. They put Mason
Speaker 1: Miller on a pedestal up here, saying, if the if
Speaker 1: the price makes sense, we're trading for this guy.
Speaker 3: That's what I think, and then the rest of the
Speaker 3: guys I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that they thought the relievers out there
Speaker 1: available were that much better than the guys they currently have.
Speaker 1: Whether or not you agree with that or not, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be my guess. And you factor in what you'd
Speaker 1: have to give up to acquire those guys, whether it
Speaker 1: be monetarily, which is stupid, it's two months worth of salary,
Speaker 1: and then you could figure it out in the off
Speaker 1: season you dump the contract away or whatever. You figure
Speaker 1: it out, or it's like the prospects that you give
Speaker 1: up for it, which lines up with how the Mariners
Speaker 1: think about relievers. They don't really like giving up stuff
Speaker 1: for relievers, knowing how volatile they are and how much
Speaker 1: they turn through these guys every single year.
Speaker 2: Except that this idea of the steckend Rider bucket is
Speaker 2: fading since twenty twenty three, when they had those three
Speaker 2: guys all really work out and gave Spyer justin topa
Speaker 2: Taylor Salcedo. Since then, how many true steckend rider bucket
Speaker 2: guys have you found? I guess Bizarto. But it's not
Speaker 2: like it's been a lot.
Speaker 3: Like no it.
Speaker 2: They haven't had that same hit rate with relievers, and
Speaker 2: as a result, they've paid some price for it at
Speaker 2: points this season, And you may pay prices for it
Speaker 2: now down the road because you didn't add anything at
Speaker 2: the deadline.
Speaker 1: Well, I know how hesitant they can also be by
Speaker 1: getting some of these rental relievers. The Marriers have acquired
Speaker 1: rental relievers each of the last two seasons. Do you
Speaker 1: remember how those went?
Speaker 2: Okay, but Caleb Ferguson is not in the same bucket
Speaker 2: as Mason Miller. He's not even in the same bucket.
Speaker 1: It's okay, Well, I'm not comparing Caleb Ferguson of Mason Miller.
Speaker 2: Well, even rental relievers. Yeah, I guess Jimmy Garcia would
Speaker 2: have lined up a little more.
Speaker 1: But I mean, well, he was the other one I
Speaker 1: was going to refer the Mariners traded for him. He
Speaker 1: made two outings, three outings, sure, but they missed the
Speaker 1: rest of the season.
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do about an injury. You can't
Speaker 2: predict that.
Speaker 1: It's to show that, well, we can't rely on this.
Speaker 1: I'm not even advocating for this. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: take people inside the mind of how the Mariners might
Speaker 1: be thinking about.
Speaker 2: This and what I would respond to that is what
Speaker 2: I would respond to that with is then you should
Speaker 2: have figured this out in the off season.
Speaker 3: That's what And I'm one hundred percent with you on that.
Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. Even when we had all
Speaker 2: the hype in the world around this team back in
Speaker 2: February and March, the one thing we constantly said was
Speaker 2: they need another leverage reliever. You're feeling the price of
Speaker 2: it now. You just are. And this is what happens.
Speaker 2: This is what happens when you put too much emphasis
Speaker 2: on the trade deadline. The Mariners have publicly talked about
Speaker 2: this and they've showed their actions with this. They use
Speaker 2: the trade deadline as part of their acquisition phase and
Speaker 2: a major part of their acquisition phase, and there's years
Speaker 2: where it works. They nailed it last year with Naylor
Speaker 2: and Gino and almost getting Durant, But the trademarket in
Speaker 2: general is just too unpredictable. So while there's years that
Speaker 2: it works, there are years where it doesn't. Twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: for example. Maybe that was more to do with the
Speaker 2: fact that they were right on the brink in terms
Speaker 2: of buying versus selling and which direction did they want
Speaker 2: to go, and that's why they weren't more aggressive. But
Speaker 2: this is why you can't overly rely on the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: There are years where it's unpredictable. And when you have
Speaker 2: a year like this where the town is down the price,
Speaker 2: the asking prices are high, and the amount of surplus
Speaker 2: value is limited, then this is what you're stuck paying
Speaker 2: the price of. This is what you're stuck paying the
Speaker 2: price of because you end up shorthanded. And this is
Speaker 2: what's happened this year with them being overly reliant on
Speaker 2: the trade deadline. As part of their process to be fair,
Speaker 2: they obviously used the off season heavily this year. They
Speaker 2: got Donovan, they re signed Naylor, and they signed Refsnyder.
Speaker 2: I know that one hasn't worked, the ref Snyder one,
Speaker 2: but it was part of the off season plan and
Speaker 2: part of their blueprint. But as a result, the failure
Speaker 2: to go acquire another leverage reliever has now cost them.
Speaker 2: Or when Jason Churchill told us ahead of the start
Speaker 2: of the season that they were still a bat short
Speaker 2: and they needed another guy, at least one more guy,
Speaker 2: Well they didn't go get that in the off season either,
Speaker 2: And then when there's no true good bats available at
Speaker 2: the deadline again, you're left short handed.
Speaker 1: Well, kind of hard to argue with any of that.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm sitting here wondering before we talk about
Speaker 1: Taylor Ward, because there was at least some positive today.
Speaker 1: I do think the Mariners get better with Taylor Ward.
Speaker 3: But I'm wondering.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here wondering as the Mariners entered this final day,
Speaker 1: what were they going to trade George Kirby or Emerson
Speaker 1: Hancock for? Like I still don't see even if they
Speaker 1: hypothetically offered Hancock or Kirby to for Mason Miller, I've
Speaker 1: been in the boat where I don't think that makes
Speaker 1: much sense. And I don't think that really makes your
Speaker 1: team that much better this season.
Speaker 3: So if not.
Speaker 1: Mason Miller, who else, Like, who are they trying to get?
Speaker 1: There was no one traded today that I think was
Speaker 1: worth either of those two.
Speaker 2: I mean, it would have been a little shocking because
Speaker 2: this would have been an indivision trade. But of the
Speaker 2: names that were floated out there, I wonder if they
Speaker 2: were trying to get wyat Langford because his name got
Speaker 2: floated out there today, that the Rangers were listening on
Speaker 2: him and they need they often need starting pitching. A
Speaker 2: lot of their starters are old. They talked about they
Speaker 2: were floating to gram and evolve the out there today
Speaker 2: too for trades. In fact, de Graham rejected any trade packages.
Speaker 2: He said, I'm not going to wave my no trade clause.
Speaker 2: I wonder if the Rangers were looking for some controllable
Speaker 2: pitching and the Mariners were interested in why at Langford
Speaker 2: and nothing happened. I mean, because if you want to
Speaker 2: throw out names of who would the Mariners value in
Speaker 2: terms of a return for George Kirby or Emerson Hancock.
Speaker 2: Of the names that we saw out there today, that's
Speaker 2: the only one that really would have made a lot
Speaker 2: of sense.
Speaker 1: But how do you get the Rangers to say yes
Speaker 1: to that? It's George Kirby, Plus, I don't.
Speaker 2: Know how you get them to say yes. But your
Speaker 2: question was who do you think the Mariners were listening to?
Speaker 2: Offers on if they're trying to sell high maybe it
Speaker 2: was Langford, or maybe it's a bat we weren't even
Speaker 2: thinking of, or a bat that wasn't made publicly available
Speaker 2: that they were trying to poach.
Speaker 1: That's fair point. Langford would be great, He's exactly what
Speaker 1: the Mariners need.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: But no individual trades for a guy like that are
Speaker 1: pretty tricky out now. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: both those guys are still in the Mariners rotation and
Speaker 1: the Mariners have their five to go the you know,
Speaker 1: the rest of the season with as they get into
Speaker 1: the postseason, do you have anything left on this bullpen
Speaker 1: before we talk about Taylor Warren.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily the bullpen, but because none of the starters
Speaker 2: got traded, you still have a situation that you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to take on next year where you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to make space for Kate Anderson at some point, likely
Speaker 2: Ryan Sloan too. So at some point somebody's gonna have
Speaker 2: to get traded, right, somebody will get traded, because.
Speaker 3: Otherwise one's gonna get traded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, otherwise you're going back to this whole ridiculous piggyback
Speaker 2: thing that they ran for the first four months of
Speaker 2: the season and the six man rotation again. I think,
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, obviously this conversation comes back to
Speaker 2: light this winner when there's actually trades going on before
Speaker 2: a lockout or after a lockout. And I hate to
Speaker 2: say it, but while his name wasn't involved in this
Speaker 2: year's talks, I would imagine Logan Gilb where its name
Speaker 2: is going to start to get involved in talks this
Speaker 2: winner because he's going to have a year left on
Speaker 2: his deal and if the Mariners get to the point
Speaker 2: where they think they cannot extend him, well then you
Speaker 2: have to go get something back for him.
Speaker 3: I think I think one of them is getting traded
Speaker 3: in the offseason at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's no way they There is this much
Speaker 1: reporting about Emerson Hancock and George Kirbickley Kirby publicly being
Speaker 1: available two reporters for a long time, for weeks and
Speaker 1: weeks on end, and that they don't end up trading
Speaker 1: one of these guys at some point, George Kirby and
Speaker 1: Emerson know that they were.
Speaker 3: Expendable for this team.
Speaker 1: Now I know they got a job to go do,
Speaker 1: and they're they're just gonna go out there and pitch,
Speaker 1: but they know now you don't make guys available that
Speaker 1: publicly and then just totally forget about trading them, especially
Speaker 1: if you a want to make room, but be try
Speaker 1: to make your team better. So and I think the Mariners,
Speaker 1: based on how they've currently been playing, still do need
Speaker 1: to make their team better, and whether it be this
Speaker 1: season or next season, that's how it's gonna have to
Speaker 1: be in the off season.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest. I think with Logan Gilbert's free
Speaker 2: agency upcoming, I think Emerson's name and trade talks goes
Speaker 2: to the back burner. Now, sure, he was available at
Speaker 2: this deadline, but I think now with the club control
Speaker 2: he's got, it probably becomes more about Logan Gilbert and
Speaker 2: George Kirby going forward than Emerson Hancock because you're gonna
Speaker 2: need him in the rotation. You're still gonna need Arms
Speaker 2: where if you trade Hancock and then Logan Gilbert walks,
Speaker 2: well then you've overdone it like you might be in
Speaker 2: Arms short. So I think Emerson's name, I don't know
Speaker 2: that for sure, but if I had a guess, I
Speaker 2: think talks now become about Logan and Kirby. This Winter,
Speaker 2: and let's say extend Logan, which would be great, but
Speaker 2: we haven't seen that yet.
Speaker 1: It depends what you can get back though, because Emerson
Speaker 1: Hancock at this point probably brings you more Logan's one year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess at that point you'd say to yourself, Okay,
Speaker 2: if we trade Emerson for a Bat or Kirby for
Speaker 2: a bat, one of those guys and then Logan Gilbert
Speaker 2: walk you'd still have Ryan Sloan. So if you hypothetically
Speaker 2: traded Kirby and then Logan Walked, then you'd still have
Speaker 2: Wu Miller, Cad Sloan, and Emerson Hancock and Logan Evans
Speaker 2: as the rotation options, which still is pretty good. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, you could still make it work. I just
Speaker 2: wonder if with Emerson's club control, Logan's free agency upcoming now,
Speaker 2: as we move forward, talks become more about him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. All right, let's talk about Taylor Ward.
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Speaker 1: Maritors acquired Taylor Ward this morning, right at about nine
Speaker 1: thirty while things were trending in a positive direction, and
Speaker 1: they got it for three minor league pitchers, Alex Hoppy
Speaker 1: and Brock Moore, the two notable ones going back to Baltimore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was all those rumors throughout the last couple of
Speaker 1: weeks and talking to our friend Adam Jude, who was
Speaker 1: on here saying he didn't feel like the Mariners and
Speaker 1: Orioles lined up well in this scenario. They did, and
Speaker 1: I'll say this, this does make them better. They did
Speaker 1: get better with this move.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes the team better. If you want to
Speaker 2: focus on the positives first, I'll let you go.
Speaker 1: Well, Taylor Ward is top ten in Major League Baseball
Speaker 1: and walks and on base percentage. Say that's positive. The
Speaker 1: Marritorers are now the only team in baseball I can't
Speaker 1: believe the stat is real. Shout out to our friends
Speaker 1: at just Baseball for digging this out. The only team
Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball to have two players with an
Speaker 1: on base percentage of three to seventy five or higher.
Speaker 2: I don't know how that's possible. I really don't that.
Speaker 1: Just I don't either, But Randy rose Arena and Taylor
Speaker 1: Ward are two guys with above three seventy five on
Speaker 1: base percentage, which is it's just bonkers. So what Taylor
Speaker 1: Ward is gonna bring you is he's gonna get on
Speaker 1: base and get on base more. His power, which he
Speaker 1: has shown plenty of in the past. He had thirty
Speaker 1: six home runs last year, has totally evaporated. It's gone
Speaker 1: his barrel rates down. I don't think he's hitting the
Speaker 1: ball as hard anymore, and he's making up for it
Speaker 1: in walks. If you want a positive spin on that.
Speaker 1: WRC plus this year and last year are the exact same.
Speaker 1: So his offensive value to a team is the same
Speaker 1: as he hits thirty six home runs as it is
Speaker 1: when he has a.
Speaker 3: Three eighty three on base percentage.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I think the Mariners do to need a little
Speaker 1: bit more pop because they're current lineups not hitting for
Speaker 1: enough pop.
Speaker 2: No, it's not well, if you've dissected all that, are
Speaker 2: we ready to move further into the other side of
Speaker 2: Taylor Ward. You just mentioned this, I mean you just
Speaker 2: mentioned his season numbers. You mentioned that his WRC plus
Speaker 2: is the same at this point this year as it
Speaker 2: was last year. Right, Well, Unfortunately most of that was
Speaker 2: anchored by a great April for Taylor Ward. Since May first,
Speaker 2: he has not been an all star level bat. He
Speaker 2: hasn't even been an above average bat. He's been literally average.
Speaker 2: Since May first, he has got a one hundred WRC
Speaker 2: plus for the season. The last three months, he has
Speaker 2: been a league average hitter at best. And that's highlighted
Speaker 2: by the fact he's slugging threeh eight for the last
Speaker 2: three months, not on basing threeh eight, which isn't a
Speaker 2: great on base percentage, but it's you know, it's whatever,
Speaker 2: slugging threeh eight. Talk about evaporated power that is non existent.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, man, Like I got a temper. I gotta
Speaker 2: temper my expectations on this Taylor Ward thing. It's just like,
Speaker 2: it's not the same guy. This is not the same
Speaker 2: Tailor Ward that was an Anaheim.
Speaker 1: But at the very least he's taking Rob Refsneider's spot,
Speaker 1: Like Refsnyder a Roeblists are getting cut tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Well, so it's all this all depends on the perspective
Speaker 2: you view the lens of the Tailor Ward trade in.
Speaker 2: If you view it in the lens of he's about
Speaker 2: to give you a boost over Refsnyder a Roeblaze. That
Speaker 2: is true, and truthfully, if I had to guess, it's
Speaker 2: gonna be ref Snyder because again roblaz still has some
Speaker 2: defensive value or Refsnyder doesn't have that but if you're
Speaker 2: viewing this in the lens of oh, we just got
Speaker 2: the Taylor Ward from Anaheim who hit thirty six homers
Speaker 2: last year and has been a staple at the top
Speaker 2: of the order for them. Yeah, the last three months
Speaker 2: and his season as a whole, are not suggesting that
Speaker 2: he has not hit for power. He has not done
Speaker 2: much damage. You mentioned that his barrel rates down, he's
Speaker 2: not hitting righties. Look, taylor Ward does hit lefties. It's
Speaker 2: always been a strength of his. But this is supposed
Speaker 2: to be an everyday player. Taylor Ward right now on
Speaker 2: the year has a six sixty eight ops or sorry,
Speaker 2: that's home versus away. Taylor Ward has a six ninety
Speaker 2: ops against right handed pitching for the year, which is
Speaker 2: right about average. And if you take out that April
Speaker 2: it gets a lot worse than that. I don't know,
Speaker 2: man like this was their headline move of the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: A guy that literally hasn't been in above league average
Speaker 2: bat in the last three months.
Speaker 3: But that's what was available, I know.
Speaker 2: And if you want glass half full on taylor Ward
Speaker 2: and more of the positive, he has still hit lefties
Speaker 2: very well in that trend or in that stretch, so
Speaker 2: in the last three months. While overall it has been
Speaker 2: below average to league average, he has still been above
Speaker 2: average against lefties. He's got about a one thirty WRC
Speaker 2: plus against lefties in the last three months. So if
Speaker 2: you're looking for the just the mere upgrade over Refsnyder
Speaker 2: or Roblaze, okay, but this is not the same tailor Ward.
Speaker 2: I partly wonder if he's I don't know for sure,
Speaker 2: you can only speculate, but I've wondered all year if
Speaker 2: he's playing a little bit banged up, because how does
Speaker 2: that power just evaporate?
Speaker 1: It's it's a Cal Rawley level drop off of power,
Speaker 1: and Cal's hurt.
Speaker 3: Cal's been hurt, right, So yeah, that would check out.
Speaker 1: I'd say this scenario, Llyle is not so much our
Speaker 1: argument of the Mariners didn't do enough in the offseason.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Mariners issue in this sense is that
Speaker 1: the guy they spent six million dollars on to do
Speaker 1: what Taylor Ward has done this season has been one
Speaker 1: of the worst players in baseball. Like that's that's really
Speaker 1: where the issue is. And then the other two premiere
Speaker 1: offseason signings for your lineup have been either hurt or
Speaker 1: bad offensively and now you have now at the trade deadline,
Speaker 1: you're trying to recoup some of that offensive production at
Speaker 1: this rate. I mean, I'm fine with with Taylor Ward platooning,
Speaker 1: hitting against lefties. He'll play right field, which he'll be
Speaker 1: below average out there, and the Mariners just get marginally
Speaker 1: better in their lineup. I don't know how they're gonna
Speaker 1: deal with him when he is in the lineup. I
Speaker 1: know you, I know he's not been great since May first,
Speaker 1: But a three eighty three on base percentage is a
Speaker 1: three eighty three on base percentage? Do you dare hit
Speaker 1: that towards the top of the lineup, even if there's
Speaker 1: no juice to go along with it. Cole Young's got
Speaker 1: that lead off spot, lockdown, Randy's gonna hit second or third,
Speaker 1: can Zone's gonna hit the other spot?
Speaker 2: So where does he go? Is he hitting ninth Taylor Ward? Well,
Speaker 2: then he'd you go, what Julio Naylor cal after that?
Speaker 2: So that's the first six? Hit seventh? And then you
Speaker 2: have to no, I wouldn't hit him seventh, him ninth
Speaker 2: Taylor Ward? Yes? Really? But what good?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: So what good does it do if he's getting on
Speaker 1: base in front of your two worst.
Speaker 2: Hitters, Colt Emerson, and then we who are we forgetting.
Speaker 1: Whoever else is? Whoever else is playing?
Speaker 2: I guess it would. I guess it would be some
Speaker 2: combo of whoever's at third base, JP West and Wilson. Although,
Speaker 2: to be fair, Brendan Donovan's about to come back and
Speaker 2: they probably will not immediately slot him back into the
Speaker 2: lead off role considering he's been out forever. He's not
Speaker 2: hit well on his rehab assignment. Maybe that's where Donovan
Speaker 2: slots in is eight and then Emerson's nine.
Speaker 1: I know on the reaction this morning, I said Taylor
Speaker 1: Wortchid hit in the top three of the lineup. I
Speaker 1: take that back. I should not have said that. I
Speaker 1: think Taylor Orchid hit ninth.
Speaker 2: In this lineup. Sure, it's fine with me.
Speaker 3: We'll just take Cole Young's old spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it breaks up some lefties and a little
Speaker 2: bit because after you get past Caw who's a switch hitter,
Speaker 2: at six, you'd have two lefties in Donovan, let's say seven,
Speaker 2: Colt Emerson eight, and then you get the righty and
Speaker 2: Taylor Ward at nine, and then you get Cole Young
Speaker 2: at one, and then you have Randy at two, So
Speaker 2: it breaks it up a little bit. Is there still
Speaker 2: a lefty pocket in there where opposing teams could slot
Speaker 2: in some lefty relievers late in the game if you
Speaker 2: know you're about to get that eight seven, eight, nine
Speaker 2: to one combo, Yeah you could, but it breaks it
Speaker 2: up more than having Taylor Ward hit seven when you
Speaker 2: just have Donovan Emerson Cole Young all three in a row.
Speaker 2: In that scenario.
Speaker 1: If someone sitting here and listening to our description of
Speaker 1: Taylor Ward and you're like, oh my god, the Mariner's
Speaker 1: treated for a nine hole hitter, I'm supposed to view
Speaker 1: this as a positive. I feel like there's nothing but
Speaker 1: like upside with a move like this. First of all,
Speaker 1: the pieces you gave away are probably gonna be non factors,
Speaker 1: like Brock Morgan could be a decent bullpen arm, but
Speaker 1: he's struggled in Double A since the Mariners promoted him.
Speaker 1: There's a reason he's not a in the big leagues.
Speaker 1: I mean, you saw what you saw from Alex Hoppy.
Speaker 1: He's probably like a right in between Triple A and
Speaker 1: Major League back in Major League believer or I guess
Speaker 1: front end where he's pitching. He's like the last guy
Speaker 1: in that bullpen. He's a quad a reliever from what
Speaker 1: he showed, that's not something you're gonna.
Speaker 3: Miss that much.
Speaker 1: And the upside you would get from Taylor Ward over
Speaker 1: either Victor Roblis or Rob Refsnyder, even if he's only
Speaker 1: has like a seven hundred ops, that's a pretty big
Speaker 1: jump from what those two guys were giving you in
Speaker 1: that same role. So like, there is definite positive to
Speaker 1: this move. He's just not gonna come in and save
Speaker 1: this lineup. There was never anyone at this deadline that
Speaker 1: was gonna come in and save this Mariner's lineup. As
Speaker 1: Callous said, and as Jerry has said, there's the only
Speaker 1: fix for this lineup is the guy's currently in it
Speaker 1: right now, and we had to reach to the end
Speaker 1: of the deadline for it to probably finally sink in
Speaker 1: with everybody that. Yeah, I mean, it's on these guys
Speaker 1: to turn this thing around.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm just underwhelm man. I mean what you
Speaker 2: said about Taylor Ward's true. It's not that much downside
Speaker 2: to trying to go with a light by because it
Speaker 2: didn't cost you that much to get him. But he
Speaker 2: just like the rest of the Mariners team, has been
Speaker 2: pretty underwhelming at points this year. He's certainly been underwhelming
Speaker 2: the last three months, given the level of talent that
Speaker 2: he has in the expectation that people know he can
Speaker 2: play at.
Speaker 1: Ugh.
Speaker 2: I'm just going back to our terminology and our language
Speaker 2: at the start of the podcast, just ugh, like like whatever, Like,
Speaker 2: great they got Taylor Ward. I would have been much
Speaker 2: more excited about this in the off season, given he
Speaker 2: was coming off such a huge year. Now, okay, Like
Speaker 2: I feel like all emotions of this season have just
Speaker 2: been beaten out of me. At this point, they've just
Speaker 2: been beaten out of me. I kind of left, what's that?
Speaker 3: We got two months left?
Speaker 2: Well, then in the next two months it's on them
Speaker 2: to fix it. Have you forgotten what their August schedule
Speaker 2: looks like.
Speaker 3: It's it's brutal, you know, an.
Speaker 2: August schedule where you now do not have bullpen reinforcements
Speaker 2: aside from Sir Anthony de Minguez who walks everybody.
Speaker 1: The Mariners have told us they believe and they're going
Speaker 1: to turn it around. Now it's time for them to
Speaker 1: back up that talk. So that's the point of the
Speaker 1: season we're at. There's no oh, we got this injection
Speaker 1: of juice at the deadline like they did last year,
Speaker 1: got these two clear fixes into this lineup, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Wow, they look totally different. The only
Speaker 1: way this team's gonna look totally different is if the
Speaker 1: players on the team start playing totally different. Otherwise it
Speaker 1: will be the same pretty much.
Speaker 2: And that's why I say most of the emotion of
Speaker 2: the season has already been beaten out of me. Like
Speaker 2: I had the anger stages and the grieving stages, and
Speaker 2: the points in May and June where it was just
Speaker 2: driving me nuts. Now I'm just it's the worst possible feeling,
Speaker 2: which is you don't feel like I don't feel anything
Speaker 2: these days, and that sucks. Like I just said it
Speaker 2: on social media. I want to feel something. I want
Speaker 2: this team to let me feel something, and right now
Speaker 2: it just feels extremely ho hummed. And between what's happened
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks on the field and this deadline,
Speaker 2: I just kind of sit here and I'm like, yah,
Speaker 2: all right, like great. I just shrugged my shoulders, like
Speaker 2: all right. The Mariners added a couple guys at the deadline.
Speaker 2: It's not all that inspiring. They haven't played very inspiring
Speaker 2: baseball unless there is a significant jolt of life in
Speaker 2: the final two months. I don't know how I'm gonna
Speaker 2: change my feeling this year because I don't feel anything
Speaker 2: these days. That sucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, his job got a lot harder at
Speaker 3: this deadline. Dan Wilson, Oh.
Speaker 2: Good, a man who already you know, is just absolutely
Speaker 2: on it every day of the season. Already, surely he
Speaker 2: can take on more challenges.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the point. And his bullpen decisions already aren't
Speaker 1: very good. And now the Mariners have to half of
Speaker 1: their current healthy leverage arms really struggling in Bizarto and Ferrara,
Speaker 1: and the Mariners added a potentially upside but also potentially
Speaker 1: downside reliever who you don't know where the ball's going
Speaker 1: on a given day, and no other proven bullpen arms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds like something that would get a lot harder
Speaker 1: for somebody. It would be harder for good managers. It's
Speaker 1: hard for guys who really struggle making decisions with their bullpens.
Speaker 1: Speaking of getting a guy like Mason Miller makes things
Speaker 1: a whole lot easier, But no, the marasn't do that.
Speaker 2: I mean, speaking of that, we haven't even really talked
Speaker 2: about anything from the twin series, because obviously the last
Speaker 2: couple episodes have been filled with trade talk. And they
Speaker 2: won two of three, which great. It didn't look all
Speaker 2: that inspiring considering they blew a six nothing lead Sunday.
Speaker 2: They barely came back on Saturday. But were we watching
Speaker 2: what in the world Dan was doing? On Friday? The
Speaker 2: Mariners were still in the middle of that six man
Speaker 2: rotation where you know you need more length out of
Speaker 2: your starters, You know you need more length. I mean,
Speaker 2: they pulled Bryce Miller out of the game at what
Speaker 2: was eighty seven pitches to then have both your struggling
Speaker 2: quote unquote leverage relievers in Ferrera and Bizardo, throw a
Speaker 2: full inning, get cooled off, sit in the dugout, and
Speaker 2: then get hot again and go back out for a
Speaker 2: second inning, and both of them gave up runs.
Speaker 1: What I mean again, I said, all the emotion was
Speaker 1: beaten out of you, and then I forgot.
Speaker 2: That when you brow so my bad it is for
Speaker 2: the most part, except when you then bring up Dan Wilson,
Speaker 2: and then it all comes right back, because yeah, what dude,
Speaker 2: you pulled Bryce at eighty seven pitches and a six
Speaker 2: man rotation, have multiple relievers, try to go multiple innings,
Speaker 2: which you never do and haven't done all year, and
Speaker 2: then they both give up runs like shocker, and then
Speaker 2: you lose.
Speaker 1: What. Well, there's that, and then there's the fact the
Speaker 1: Mariners blue. They shout out to the Mariner's offense. They
Speaker 1: got off to hot starts in all three of the games.
Speaker 1: They scored multiple runs in the first inning of every game.
Speaker 3: The downside is.
Speaker 1: They blew all of those leads, all of them, and
Speaker 1: they have a couple of walkoffs made. It's just salvage
Speaker 1: the series, but it's not really a sustainable way of playing.
Speaker 1: So you hope that the bullpen kind of irons itself out.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, this is not inspiring.
Speaker 1: So now you're gonna play a Tigers team this week who, yes,
Speaker 1: doesn't have Errek Schoubel anymore, but is hardly you know,
Speaker 1: like they have a worse record than the Twins, but
Speaker 1: they're definitely more talented than the Twins are. And then
Speaker 1: it really gets going this weekend with the Rays and.
Speaker 3: They're newly acquired ace Freddy Peralta. That's gonna be a
Speaker 3: good team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, with a rotation that's already really good or
Speaker 2: a team that's already really good. So yeah, I'm looking
Speaker 2: at this. But and then you know, people were mad
Speaker 2: on Friday about Garver coming in. Yeah, Garver and Roblazes
Speaker 2: ops is against lefties really aren't that different this year,
Speaker 2: which is kind of crazy. But I don't know, Friday
Speaker 2: just wasn't good. The weekend was whatever. I'm glad, like
Speaker 2: good they won the series. But this real August Gauntlet
Speaker 2: has the even started yet. It doesn't even really start
Speaker 2: against the Tigers a little bit. It does. It really
Speaker 2: gets going this weekend against the Rays.
Speaker 3: So they are.
Speaker 1: Gonna need to get to like five games above five hundred,
Speaker 1: and then we will start feeling more positive about the
Speaker 1: direction of this team, because if they do do that,
Speaker 1: they will have It'll come one of two ways. They
Speaker 1: will have either survived August and feasted on September, which
Speaker 1: is essentially what they did last year to get themselves
Speaker 1: into the playoffs, or they will do well against this
Speaker 1: August schedule, which would be a very positive trend.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: Those are the options in front of them right now.
Speaker 1: If they're gonna go out there and they're gonna go
Speaker 1: make us feel better and make this make the playoffs
Speaker 1: know that their roster is finalized.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, I would like to feel something. We'll see
Speaker 2: if that happens in August. Well, I probably will feel
Speaker 2: something in August. Just a question of whether it's good
Speaker 2: or bad. So I don't know. The juhum thing isn't
Speaker 2: very fun. But that's your trade deadline. Man. There wasn't
Speaker 2: a whole time on. They traded as starting pitcher, They
Speaker 2: added a right handed bat, they didn't get the reliever,
Speaker 2: and we'll see. I guess right. That's all you can do.
Speaker 3: Mm yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine
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Speaker 2: every single day at Marine Layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle.
Speaker 2: It's always thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk
Speaker 2: to you soon.
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