Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up NSVU podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. Hello, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk SVU. We're going to talk crime,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to have an incredible guest that
Speaker 1: I think you guys.
Speaker 3: Will flip out over.
Speaker 2: And now we have some announcements, some chats, some updates,
Speaker 2: some gossip.
Speaker 3: We can't wait. You know, we're on tour. Do you
Speaker 3: know this?
Speaker 2: I ran into someone in my neighborhood. They had no
Speaker 2: idea we were performing in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: Hello, that's crazy, you guys.
Speaker 1: If you're not following us on Instagram, it is really
Speaker 1: where we put a lot of fun content about the
Speaker 1: pod and we try to add extra little fun bits
Speaker 1: and bobs there for you too.
Speaker 3: But we're pod. Yeah, and if you're on Twitter, I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: we don't care. Yeah, we don't put as much on Twitter. No,
Speaker 3: we don't put us on Twitter.
Speaker 1: But there's not as many of you following us on
Speaker 1: Twitter either, so like but follow us on Instagram. We
Speaker 1: do try to Lisa plays really fun games in the stories,
Speaker 1: little polls. We're always trying to make it fun on there.
Speaker 1: But it's also where we're talking a lot about our tour.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to those of you that have
Speaker 1: already bought tickets. We have sold out a couple of
Speaker 1: our shows in Seattle, but we are, you know, possibly
Speaker 1: have something else in the works there, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1: We also got you guys asked, We have answered. We
Speaker 1: have added a San Francisco show. It's going to be Thursday,
Speaker 1: June ninth at Cobb's Comedy Club. Come see us. You
Speaker 1: guys harassed us on Instagram and we submitted and we
Speaker 1: got you a show there, so we're really excited.
Speaker 3: You can go too.
Speaker 1: That's messed up live dot com for all of our
Speaker 1: tour dates and ticket links and yeah, we obviously want
Speaker 1: to come all over the country and these shows show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you want to come all over the country? Is
Speaker 3: that it? You sick buck? Come get this count You're
Speaker 3: never going to get that.
Speaker 1: You have to experience this magic in person, So come
Speaker 1: to our shows and these tour dates. Doing well is
Speaker 1: important to getting us to your city. So if you
Speaker 1: have friends that live in these other cities like Tempe,
Speaker 1: San Diego, Irvine, you know, Denver, please tell your friends
Speaker 1: and please come see us, because we're dying to meet
Speaker 1: all you guys and talk murder.
Speaker 2: And speaking of meeting people, I did meet someone at
Speaker 2: the Kennedy Center. I was there performing for a nice,
Speaker 2: you know, little festival moment.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it was, but it.
Speaker 2: Was for Women's Month, and I met someone that was
Speaker 2: working at the Kennedy Center and they let me know
Speaker 2: that the Margaret Chose story of Richard Belzer's dogs being
Speaker 2: run all over without any leashes at the Kennedy Center
Speaker 2: is true and it is folklore there, and that the
Speaker 2: dogs are like running into the elevators alone and like
Speaker 2: doing whatever they wanted. And so we got confirmation gossip
Speaker 2: on Belzer's dogs at the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 3: So I love that had to share. I love that.
Speaker 1: We also posted on our Instagram another reason for our
Speaker 1: Instagram follow We also posted recently, an eagle eyed listener
Speaker 1: sent us a video of Munch answering the phone with
Speaker 1: a delicate tattoo of the word love scripted on his wrist.
Speaker 3: That's what it said, right, love.
Speaker 2: It said love. But I didn't think it was that delicate.
Speaker 2: It was pretty thick, pretty.
Speaker 3: So thick, but like in script.
Speaker 1: I guess that delicateness I meant is like script, like
Speaker 1: in like a very feminine like cursive like. Yeah. Listener
Speaker 1: points it out that the tattoo looks like Louise's keychain
Speaker 1: from Sex and the City too. You know she has
Speaker 1: that like love keychain. It's just I thought it was
Speaker 1: a shock for Munch, and people were sending us a
Speaker 1: lot of skeleton emojis. They were very Everyone was overwhelmed
Speaker 1: that Munch has a I mean, he also seems like
Speaker 1: such a like observant jew.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? You like to be
Speaker 3: have a tattoo? It's interesting.
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, do you remember when me, you
Speaker 2: and another friend went to a pool at a Kimpton
Speaker 2: hotel and got wasted in the daytime. You had like
Speaker 2: just had rosie and there was a DJ and she
Speaker 2: was incredible. Yes, So she's going to be at South
Speaker 2: by Anna in New York when I'm in both places. Oh,
Speaker 2: I messaged her and then uh, yeah, I'm really really excited.
Speaker 3: She was such a good DJ and she was so great.
Speaker 3: Maybe we were just blacked out, but I I know
Speaker 3: I was on.
Speaker 1: Ring a Tom Collins kick that I think I had
Speaker 1: like six Tom Collins And then I remember I paid
Speaker 1: the bill before I left, because I left you guys
Speaker 1: there and you texted me and you were like like
Speaker 1: the next day you're like, did you pay the bill
Speaker 1: or did we just run out on the check.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Well, that was like a fun moment for us because
Speaker 2: we ordered or we reserved a cabana or whatever, but
Speaker 2: then also a side lounger and we weren't using it,
Speaker 2: but anyone that wanted to use it, we would not
Speaker 2: let them because we had.
Speaker 3: Paid for it. So I just put like a beach
Speaker 3: cover up on it and was like, we're using it,
Speaker 3: we're using it. One of us might want to lie
Speaker 3: down in a minute. Yeah, it was such assholes.
Speaker 1: But the opposite of assholes is sweet, beautiful people, which
Speaker 1: is most of you guys who have been amazing and
Speaker 1: sent us so many donations to the RASM organization that
Speaker 1: we shouted out on our Instagram to help people in
Speaker 1: the Ukraine.
Speaker 3: We are like overwhelmed by how much.
Speaker 1: You guys, we raised so much money to send over there,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure more people donated. We just only got
Speaker 1: receipts from people who spent fifty or more. But if
Speaker 1: you gave even four dollars a dollar, like that's still
Speaker 1: a great donation, and like any I think any bit helps.
Speaker 2: So you guys are the Yeah, no, we have such
Speaker 2: good listeners, and yeah, it is very good. And it's
Speaker 2: like it's just fucked m because now thinking about like
Speaker 2: let's say, God, will you know whatever after like these
Speaker 2: people are the airports are fucking demolished, schools, hospitals, like
Speaker 2: infrastructure to the extreme, it's like a really.
Speaker 3: Terrifying thing to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, And I mean I've been reading stuff
Speaker 1: that makes me hopeful that like Putin's in a corner
Speaker 1: and he feels and he's like he's failing and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, but a narcissist in a corner that's scary. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's not good.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say, Like, you wonder what
Speaker 1: he's gonna do to double down.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna switch it up so we're not saying.
Speaker 2: Well, then I watched a video of a young girl
Speaker 2: and a bunker with all the people in the building
Speaker 2: and their pack like sardines, and then she's saying let
Speaker 2: it go from Frozen in Ukrainian and I think was
Speaker 2: it you that were like, why would you watch that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I was like, there's no rack I
Speaker 3: can watch that. I can't. It was really sweet, but yeah,
Speaker 3: it was. Wait.
Speaker 1: Can I ask a stupid question? Is there is the
Speaker 1: Ukrainian language different than Russian?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't know that. Yeah, how different is it?
Speaker 1: Do you understand any of it when you hear Ukrainian.
Speaker 3: With context clues?
Speaker 2: I could understand it, but I need I usually need
Speaker 2: all the captions and stuff, but some of the spelling
Speaker 2: like I can decipher.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is a different language. Gotta just to
Speaker 1: switch gears.
Speaker 2: My friend Eleanor Kerrigan is so funny at the comedy
Speaker 2: store she opens for Dice and she's just an old
Speaker 2: school funny girl from Philly and I love her so much.
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't know if anyone knows this.
Speaker 1: I've been crying about it, but I lost my leather
Speaker 1: jacket and no, I think this is the first announcement
Speaker 1: it's made to the pod. Yes, Lisa lost her leather
Speaker 1: jacket at LAX. I did receive a text right after
Speaker 1: it happened and was like, we're going to be dealing
Speaker 1: with the fallout from this.
Speaker 3: For a while.
Speaker 2: So I'm standing with Eleanor, my friend Sydney, and then
Speaker 2: Emily who works at the comedy store, and we're and
Speaker 2: I'm talking about this leather jacket and Emily goes, well,
Speaker 2: what brand is it? And I said River Island and
Speaker 2: she goes, I mean it's fine, you could get a
Speaker 2: better one. And I got laughed at so hard by
Speaker 2: Sydney and Eleanor because they saw how distraught I was.
Speaker 2: I was like in tears about this leather jacket and
Speaker 2: this woman is like, yeah, I think it's okay.
Speaker 3: It was like fuck off.
Speaker 2: So that Eldenor is actually like Andrew dice Clay is
Speaker 2: cleaning out his home, and so she goes, well, I
Speaker 2: have some dice jackets in my car.
Speaker 3: Do you want to try him on?
Speaker 2: So then I went into her trunk and I started
Speaker 2: trying on Andrew dice Clay's leather.
Speaker 3: Jackets last night. Did you get to do one?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: They were you know, they were big and heavy, and
Speaker 3: really like he's a big guy. But then she also
Speaker 3: had Muhammad Ali's boxing gloves in the car, so then
Speaker 3: I started, I took. I had a little photo.
Speaker 1: Shoot with boxing gloves just for my dad and they
Speaker 1: were in a case. But it was just like a
Speaker 1: funny trunk wow, silly thing.
Speaker 3: But I got to wear his leather jackets. I thought
Speaker 3: that was funny.
Speaker 1: But to get shaded said he was like, no, she
Speaker 1: called me in tears about this jacket and someone was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah.
Speaker 3: That's not a good brand at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I know that brand, but I don't really
Speaker 1: know any good Like I have. My leather jacket is
Speaker 1: the only nice thing I own. And I like did
Speaker 1: research on where to get it. What brand is your
Speaker 1: leather jacket?
Speaker 3: It's All Saints.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah that's the best. Yeah, All Saints is good.
Speaker 1: But that's like a thousand dollars No, no, no, it
Speaker 1: was it was half that oh okay, And it was
Speaker 1: like it was like a purchase when I moved to
Speaker 1: LA because like the weather's so weird here, and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is gonna be a jacket.
Speaker 3: I wear all the time, and I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mine was like under three hundred dollars and everyone's like,
Speaker 2: just buy another one, but it's just more to it.
Speaker 2: Like like someone was like, why didn't you just get
Speaker 2: one right away?
Speaker 4: In d C.
Speaker 2: I'm like, a leather jacket is not like a quick
Speaker 2: yeah purchase.
Speaker 3: It's like and I wear it every day?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think DC's got the leather
Speaker 1: goods you're looking for. No offense, DC, I just think
Speaker 1: you should look at like I really went around and
Speaker 1: like tried on a bunch of different ones, like cause
Speaker 1: I thought that was like like a big purchase.
Speaker 2: You know it is, and it's something where every day
Speaker 2: did you get the did you text tricks see it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Not yet, but I will. Oh. So have you been
Speaker 3: watching Drag Race?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are you caught up? I just caught up last night,
Speaker 1: so I was an right boiler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the double save again, the two double saves. It's like,
Speaker 3: we're never going to get to the end of the season. Well,
Speaker 3: listen to this.
Speaker 2: I'm talking to someone yesterday and caught justin Martindale. He
Speaker 2: yesterday goes, you know what it was ruin her head, went,
Speaker 2: I need eight girls for Snatch Game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then do Snatch Game before that episode?
Speaker 2: Then but that is like I wonder if she knew
Speaker 2: it was going to be a double save. No matter what,
Speaker 2: I think that cornbread leaving fucked up the whole schedule.
Speaker 2: So then they had that double save, and then they
Speaker 2: had they had they probably had like guests picked to
Speaker 2: come for Snatch game, and so they had to do eight.
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's exactly like it has to be eight.
Speaker 1: Jasmin absolutely would have gone home third lip sync like
Speaker 1: she would have gone home.
Speaker 2: I think, wow, Yeah, But they were both great, and
Speaker 2: I loved that they played with each other and usually
Speaker 2: don't to hear a motown hit, so that was like
Speaker 2: really exciting to hear.
Speaker 3: Great. They were great.
Speaker 1: I just feel like if it wasn't for the reason
Speaker 1: exactly that your friend is saying, like, then yeah, but
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3: That's what's embarrassing.
Speaker 2: It's like we have worked in television, we do know television,
Speaker 2: and then I completely, I completely believe it. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, a double say you know, like I
Speaker 2: don't know why, because if they.
Speaker 1: Moved the snap game, if they moved the night game
Speaker 1: up a week, it might have affected the guests and
Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of other shits, so I think
Speaker 1: they were just like whatever, we're doing it this way
Speaker 1: and other.
Speaker 2: On the pit stop too, they were like, we do
Speaker 2: not think that was a double say, like, no one
Speaker 2: watching it thought it was that spectacular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was really good. I don't know, No,
Speaker 1: it was good. It was good. I just I get
Speaker 1: a little bit like h or when they bring people
Speaker 1: back sometimes I'm like, oh my god, we're going to
Speaker 1: be here forever.
Speaker 2: I wonder if Katya is going to talk about what's
Speaker 2: happening with the war, Like I wonder what her I
Speaker 2: do too. I haven't heard Russian and left. Well, her
Speaker 2: favorite Russians performer Alla Polkachova has escaped Russia.
Speaker 1: I read and is that the same singer who was
Speaker 1: positive for COVID that she talked about on her She
Speaker 1: had a singer she follows in Russia who they posted it.
Speaker 1: They posted their positive COVID test and Katya thought it
Speaker 1: was a pregnancy test, but then she had to translate
Speaker 1: the caption and was like, oh no, sorry, it's a
Speaker 1: COVID test.
Speaker 3: She was like, oh, thirty nine, that's wonderful, you're pregnant.
Speaker 1: Oh no, Alla Pokachhova is like in her sixties, like
Speaker 1: I used to see her as a child.
Speaker 2: She truly is like this legend. But she's married to Galkin,
Speaker 2: who's a young, like thirty year old. Like she's married
Speaker 2: to a very young man who's obsessed with wow okay,
Speaker 2: and they love each other. But I read that they've escaped. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like the Jimmy Fallon of Russia spoke out his show
Speaker 2: got canceled immediately, like anyone that speaks out about it.
Speaker 3: Their electricity has been cut.
Speaker 1: No, and now China's backing it up too. China's getting
Speaker 1: rid of all of the of the pro Ukraine stuff
Speaker 1: that's there. So it's like, I don't know. The two
Speaker 1: of them together is what makes me nervous. China and
Speaker 1: Russia like linking up to fuck the world over is
Speaker 1: nerve wrecked.
Speaker 2: But I feel like China does own us like we have.
Speaker 2: We're delusional to think that we're like America number one,
Speaker 2: Like oh, and let's fucking we probably have to do
Speaker 2: something positive for gay kid kids because the fucking Senate
Speaker 2: passed in Florida that don't say gay. Bill and Ali
Speaker 2: Krieger and Ashlyn Harris US women's soccer team players I
Speaker 2: saw their posts Baby Sloan and then it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: so their child's not gonna be able to say they
Speaker 2: have two moms in school?
Speaker 1: Is illegal for her to be like, oh my two
Speaker 1: moms are coming. Like what I think, Just to be clear,
Speaker 1: I think that the kids can say whatever they want.
Speaker 1: The teachers are not allowed to talk to them about it.
Speaker 1: And it's K through three, So I'm hoping at least
Speaker 1: I think that that's fucking deplorable and horrible, but I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that at least that doesn't affect kids that are
Speaker 1: like in their early teen twins that might be seeking
Speaker 1: out a teacher for like help, coming out or something
Speaker 1: like that, that that doesn't, you know, punish them. Even
Speaker 1: though I still think that, I still think K through
Speaker 1: three is fucking awful.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to make light of that.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I when I read that, I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to try to find any silver lining,
Speaker 1: it's that it doesn't affect older kids who are more likely.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like dealing with sexual identity starts
Speaker 1: at a young age. We should be able to start
Speaker 1: talking to kids. I already tell Rosie at two, because
Speaker 1: she's very into the binarya who's a girl, who's a boy?
Speaker 1: And I go and some people aren't a boy or
Speaker 1: a girl, and some people are a boy and a
Speaker 1: girl and some you know, I'm like trying to tell
Speaker 1: her all the things now at two, because it's already
Speaker 1: starts to get so ingrained, so young.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and then you become a forty year old
Speaker 2: idiot who can't remember to say they you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like you got to teach him young, yes,
Speaker 2: but it's it's sad. I feel so sad, and I
Speaker 2: can't believe it passed. Because usually with bills that are
Speaker 2: that like deplorable, like you said, and like that shitty,
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, it won't pass. It's okay, they're just
Speaker 2: it's just in the news. It won't pass. The ACLU
Speaker 2: will get involved, and then it's like, wow, it passed, okay, fuck.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Because you whenever you like, especially drag race stuff, when
Speaker 2: they do the when they talk to their younger selves
Speaker 2: at the end, it's always like photos of them wearing
Speaker 2: heels as little kids. You know, it's them dressing up
Speaker 2: gender many super young. So it's just fucked up. Fuck Florida.
Speaker 2: Fuck Republicans?
Speaker 1: Okay, how do we bring this up? How do we
Speaker 1: bring this up for the end? How do we dismount
Speaker 1: on a positive note? How do we dismount on a
Speaker 1: positive note? What have I seen in the world that
Speaker 1: has made me happy? I had funians yesterday.
Speaker 3: I went to tap class again yesterday and I am bad?
Speaker 3: Are you bad? Are you bad? At tap? Listen?
Speaker 1: I just like the first two classes, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm doing okay, and then this third class,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I she just goes and then it's blah
Speaker 1: blah bah blah blah blah bah, And I go, I, what, like,
Speaker 1: you got to do that ten more times? But she
Speaker 1: doesn't do it ten more times? And I don't want
Speaker 1: to ask because now your class how hard it is?
Speaker 1: And drag race to learn corea. All I'm saying is
Speaker 1: I'm committed to get better, but I don't think you're
Speaker 1: gonna see me shuffling off to Buffalo anything.
Speaker 2: Oh, speaking of dancing, this is something I wanted to
Speaker 2: talk about that I fully forgot.
Speaker 3: So my friend JB.
Speaker 2: Her daughter is at school dance age, and I saw
Speaker 2: a photo and it was her and all of her
Speaker 2: friends and little dresses all in sneakers.
Speaker 3: I loved it.
Speaker 2: I just love that girls go to dances now and
Speaker 2: sneakers and aren't like wearing heels and uncomfortable taking their
Speaker 2: heels off, and what am I gonna do?
Speaker 3: Like what a nightmare we live through?
Speaker 2: And I'm just yeah, dresses with sneakers Casey Musgraves style,
Speaker 2: Like think.
Speaker 1: No party shoes were a nightmare growing up. We called
Speaker 1: them party shoes horrible. And I know I'm never gonna
Speaker 1: get rosy in any so I'm already planning, like the
Speaker 1: sneakers she's gonna wear as a flower girl like she Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's comfort all the way that girl you've seen her.
Speaker 2: And I ran into Patty Harris, I mean, oh whatever,
Speaker 2: cool people want Independent Spirit Awards and it's like and
Speaker 2: we're there and it's just like fun. My friend Joyel's
Speaker 2: on the nominated for a Critics Choice Award. The award
Speaker 2: show is like, as we're recording like the next two days,
Speaker 2: so we'll know she's ill nominated for.
Speaker 3: Her comedy special. Oh amazing and so so Firestone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was like busy when she sent me
Speaker 2: the photo of the dress she was wearing. And I
Speaker 2: just I forgot to respond, I'm living my life. And
Speaker 2: then she goes, so you hate the dress, huh, And
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, I was just busy.
Speaker 3: I was busy. I don't hate the dress like I
Speaker 3: love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Check out Joyel Nicole Johnson's special on Peacock and Joe
Speaker 2: Firestone special on Peacock.
Speaker 1: And now let's fucking and now you're bad the saying
Speaker 1: peacock twice? You per Oh, yeah, let's get going. You
Speaker 1: guys are gonna love today's episode.
Speaker 3: Let's go okay, fantastic.
Speaker 2: We're doing season four, episode twenty four.
Speaker 3: It's called perfect, which I like. It is a classic.
Speaker 2: And it starts with lights and sirens, cop cars zooming
Speaker 2: to a hip fast like you know fast and the
Speaker 2: furious style stop. It like spins around and uniform cops
Speaker 2: like run to the shop owner and the shop owner.
Speaker 3: Goes, he robbed me, he robbed me.
Speaker 2: So cops chase whatever into an alley's trying to find
Speaker 2: who robbed them.
Speaker 3: They hear shots. Who what are the shots?
Speaker 2: The shots are in the alley, All the cops are running,
Speaker 2: they're meeting up and they have apprehended like a gutter
Speaker 2: punk like skater guy. There's a beanie, you know. Was
Speaker 2: he hungry or drug addict, I'm not sure, but he
Speaker 2: made money for a new board, a new board. And
Speaker 2: then oh no, one of the cops says, check this out.
Speaker 2: And there's a shot young girl who is dead, laying
Speaker 2: by the trash can. And then we see Benson coming
Speaker 2: through the yellow crime scene tape. She's a stabler who's
Speaker 2: pinning a badge onto his leather jacket, which seems impossible
Speaker 2: to do, like as a person who is a fan
Speaker 2: of buying pins and my leather jacket, there's no fucking
Speaker 2: way you're not putting a little pin on the leather.
Speaker 2: But neither here nor there. So stabler says, I think
Speaker 2: it's weird. They're bringing us into an office. Are involved shooting?
Speaker 2: What's going on here? They're suspicious? And then we see
Speaker 2: iab enemy number one, Tucker, and then he describes we
Speaker 2: get all the info. It's a black female teen sleeping
Speaker 2: on the streets, maybe a runaway. Someone worked her over,
Speaker 2: burnmarks on both of her arms, there's ribbons in her
Speaker 2: braids and a very nice blanket. So it's not a
Speaker 2: classic runaway vibes, but there is a hole in her head.
Speaker 2: So basically a cop shot her in the head and
Speaker 2: now wants SVU to clean it up. And so they're pissed,
Speaker 2: and Tucker's trying to be sincere, like this girl was tortured.
Speaker 2: We need to know who she is. Do you want
Speaker 2: her parents to just see her face in the paper?
Speaker 2: So this is a manipulation tactic if I've ever seen one,
Speaker 2: and you know Svu, they have big hearts. So SVU
Speaker 2: starts walking away like, nah, we have no interest in
Speaker 2: cleaning up your mess, and then iab he goes, well,
Speaker 2: can't you just do me a favor?
Speaker 3: And Benson loses it.
Speaker 2: She does a sexy spinback turn and this is a
Speaker 2: perfect moment address her hairdoo. So it's kind of a
Speaker 2: mix between a twenties flapper, a homeschool bowl cut, and
Speaker 2: a boy band guy, but in a fresh cut, like
Speaker 2: a thick, chunky bang, very short. I would say twenties
Speaker 2: flapper is the closest.
Speaker 3: Have we covered this hairdoo often? We've done another episode
Speaker 3: in season four, I think, But I don't know.
Speaker 2: Or am I always surprised to talk about the hair
Speaker 2: no matter what, Like I'm for some reason, I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen this one before, but I
Speaker 2: have for sure I have.
Speaker 1: And wait, and speaking of looks, Tucker looks so much younger,
Speaker 1: but for so much some reason to me less handsome,
Speaker 1: Like I think he looks better older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a white hair man. That's what he's meant
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Benson, you know, flips around and she goes all
Speaker 2: the times you people jammed us up, and now you
Speaker 2: want us to play nice. You got a set of
Speaker 2: balls asking us for anything.
Speaker 3: Love that.
Speaker 2: Stabler says, if we find out it's a cop, like
Speaker 2: the cop shot this girl, you want us to keep
Speaker 2: it quiet. And Tucker goes, no, no, no, do your job.
Speaker 2: However it turns out, it turns out we're not here
Speaker 2: to like no secrets. If you don't want to do
Speaker 2: it for me, that's fine, but you obviously want to
Speaker 2: do it for her. So you know our detectives are in.
Speaker 2: Now we meet CSU Captain Judith I was let's say
Speaker 2: Judith Light. It's not Judith Light, it's like Judith Judith Cipher. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and she says she found seven slugs and give this,
Speaker 2: and she gives all the scoops on all the evidence
Speaker 2: on the scene and where all the like trajectories came from.
Speaker 2: There's shootings from the purpse gun the cops gun, and
Speaker 2: they went through a steel drum and then it hit her.
Speaker 2: But so they do like some some they do detective work.
Speaker 1: I don't know, leave me alone. It's like laser trajectory evidence.
Speaker 2: So we find out the purp is the one who
Speaker 2: fired the shot that killed the sweet girl or a
Speaker 2: bit so, Like, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sorry, if you're like running away from the cops in
Speaker 1: a robbery, what's going through your mind that you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fire some shots.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna kill some cops. Like even if you can,
Speaker 3: you can go to.
Speaker 1: Jail for robbery for not that long. Like I just
Speaker 1: don't get turning around and being like bang bang bank,
Speaker 1: like it's a shootout.
Speaker 2: Well, I just don't know if people that are robbing
Speaker 2: stores have great decision making skills.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're asking a lot out of people who
Speaker 3: might not. It's like I get running, try to outrun them,
Speaker 3: but don't.
Speaker 1: I would not try to kill one.
Speaker 2: But yeah, cop killers don't bode well in the criminal
Speaker 2: justice system. The fact they didn't shoot him on the
Speaker 2: spot is actually the most fiction thing that as well,
Speaker 2: he's ever done because he was white. Even if you
Speaker 2: shoot a cop, I don't know, they really don't love that.
Speaker 3: They don't love that. They'll do a whole parade.
Speaker 1: They'll do a whole That's part of our rule of culture,
Speaker 1: if we were to start roles of culture, the cops
Speaker 1: famously don't love it when you shoot them.
Speaker 2: So now we're back at the lab Morgue area, Melinda
Speaker 2: Warner's playground. She's in a straight hair ponytail. Only problem
Speaker 2: is the girl was already dead. So there's a fork
Speaker 2: in all of that.
Speaker 3: I saw.
Speaker 1: Let me just say I saw when I was looking
Speaker 1: up when I was looking up various things about this episode,
Speaker 1: Like you know how on IMDb people will sometimes point
Speaker 1: out indiscrepancies. People were, like somebody wrote on IMDb, like
Speaker 1: if the girl was already dead, why was she bleeding
Speaker 1: from the bullet hole. She would have stopped bleeding if
Speaker 1: she was dead, Like she wouldn't have had So that
Speaker 1: was an inconsistency that she had, like blood running down
Speaker 1: the bullet hole.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there wouldn't be any blood at all.
Speaker 1: I guess if you shoot somebody that's already dead, there's
Speaker 1: no blood. I mean, there's no blood that like spills
Speaker 1: out because you don't have any more blood pressure.
Speaker 3: Interesting. Interesting, So Melinda fills us in.
Speaker 2: Outside of that, she says, the girl was filthy, she
Speaker 2: hadn't bathed in weeks, cheap clothes. But the necklace she
Speaker 2: had this like very expensive necklace, an Infinity symbol on
Speaker 2: a chain, which of.
Speaker 1: Course Benson knows. Benson like always knows what's expensive and
Speaker 1: what's not. You could not tell me what was an
Speaker 1: expensive neck I mean maybe I could be like this
Speaker 1: looked a little bit claars, but like I cannot tell
Speaker 1: what's nice what's not, you know, But Benson Nos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't know. And then but this is actually gross.
Speaker 2: So the things on her arms were not burns, they
Speaker 2: were cockerroach bites. Okay, so we got an Honie's scoop
Speaker 2: midway through Incoming Incoming, Oh, breaking news. I was like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is the word? So the body won't
Speaker 2: really bleed. It might ooze though, and blood clots and
Speaker 2: thickens after death, so yeah, it would be like a
Speaker 2: thick ooze, not a gushing blood.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Yeah, we learned a lot on
Speaker 1: this show. Always fun to talk about oo's. Ooz is
Speaker 1: an underused word, maybe because we don't run into ooze.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: Ooz reminds me of puss and that's one of my
Speaker 1: least favorite words.
Speaker 2: I know, because when I had some ear moments you
Speaker 2: didn't like when I mentioned the pus, I.
Speaker 1: Was worried for you. I just didn't really want to
Speaker 1: hear the p word it really for some reason. And
Speaker 1: I think because I had infected ears for so long,
Speaker 1: my mom would always be like, oh, it's pussing, and like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm triggered.
Speaker 2: No, it hurts me too. I Ooze is more fun
Speaker 2: to me. It's slimy. It's ghostbusters. It's like something that crazy.
Speaker 1: Or when they say somebody is oozing charm, you know,
Speaker 1: like oh she oozes star power.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's not good because if you radiate, that's positive.
Speaker 2: If you ooze that meat like, that's that that's slimy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a slimy personality. Charm is dangerous. Charm is can
Speaker 2: go either way. Charm is not a blanket normal. How
Speaker 2: do we know because of our line of work?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because of serial killers that are charming well and comedians.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Also that true, we're terrible people, but can
Speaker 1: charm your little pants off.
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's a comedian that we know who
Speaker 2: has murdered. I wonder, hmm, interesting that like hit someone
Speaker 2: with their car and never told anyone that person's dead. Like,
Speaker 2: we've got to know a killer. Do you think I've
Speaker 2: never even considered that. Oh this is a new thought.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is you know, once when you talk
Speaker 2: for a year straight, NonStop, constantly, this is what happens.
Speaker 2: This is where you get to do we know a murderers? Yeah, thoughts,
Speaker 2: we'll put out some uh, some poles. Okay, back to
Speaker 2: cockroach bites. So we're at Melinda's and we're going over
Speaker 2: the evidence of the young girl who was found in
Speaker 2: the alley shot by an officer perp shootout. But it
Speaker 2: was dead before the shooting. And now we're here. Tucker
Speaker 2: thought this girl had burdens on her arms. It's actually
Speaker 2: cockroach bites, which is sickening. And then she keeps going
Speaker 2: like we want to hear more, and she goes, if
Speaker 2: she was dead, the bites wouldn't bubble up, but if
Speaker 2: she was mobile, the cockroaches wouldn't bite her.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so she was drug or sick or restrained
Speaker 1: or something we don't really know.
Speaker 3: So we're back at the precinct.
Speaker 2: We have Kragan wearing suspenders saying this girl was held
Speaker 2: captive or what? Like, how can we explain this non movement?
Speaker 2: Oh feeling cockroaches bite?
Speaker 3: I didn't even know cockroaches bite you. I didn't even
Speaker 3: know that either.
Speaker 1: I did not, because usually you like, turn a light,
Speaker 1: that's the thing you turn a light on in cockroaches scatter,
Speaker 1: you know, so like they're kind of scared of people.
Speaker 1: But if you're sitting there restrained or like, you know, incapacitated,
Speaker 1: they're gonna have a buffet.
Speaker 3: It's horrible. I can't believe you just use the word buffet.
Speaker 3: I know, I'm sorry. I can't even really say the word.
Speaker 1: You know. My sister calls seawords, she calls them butterflies.
Speaker 1: She cannot talk about them. They're like her biggest fear.
Speaker 3: Like she would.
Speaker 1: Literally say, oh my god, on third Avenue, I saw
Speaker 1: a butterfly today, and like and it would be like
Speaker 1: rootin her fucking day.
Speaker 3: What does she say for butterfly? Barely talks about them.
Speaker 2: Well, if she ever wants, you know, I have a
Speaker 2: giant butterfly in my forearm for what reason?
Speaker 3: No reason, no reason, Well, no, she like butterflies.
Speaker 2: The fact that like, my biggest tattoo is a butterfly
Speaker 2: is just like, what is happening?
Speaker 3: I don't even know.
Speaker 1: I think that actually makes a lot of sense in
Speaker 1: like a funny metal way, because you act like your
Speaker 1: tattoos kind of don't have any story, but like, butterflies
Speaker 1: are a popular tattoo.
Speaker 3: I don't know, there's something that makes sense about it
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they're a popular tattoo, but you did it
Speaker 1: in a different like I don't know.
Speaker 3: No, the nineties are back. I was regressing. I was.
Speaker 3: It was like I I was.
Speaker 2: I remember the day I was in the apartment and
Speaker 2: I was like, I have to set up the printer
Speaker 2: or I'll get a tattoo.
Speaker 3: And then I did that.
Speaker 2: I arrived, I was like, give me a butterfly, Like whatever,
Speaker 2: can we get back to these cockroach bites?
Speaker 3: But this is sickening and I hate this so much.
Speaker 2: So then we also figure out that she was dead
Speaker 2: somewhere else then brought over to this area and the blanket.
Speaker 2: Obviously we're not new to SVU shows that somebody cared
Speaker 2: for her, which leans towards a female person, like I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about the hair brush piano lesson episode, and women
Speaker 2: usually like take care of their victims or something Jesus,
Speaker 2: And there's ribbons in the hair. Someone did love her.
Speaker 2: Munch and Finn run in like giggling schoolgirls. They're excited,
Speaker 2: they have some they have scoop. It's positive idea on
Speaker 2: the victim. She is a missing girl from Philly. Her
Speaker 2: name is Samantha Tassler. She went missing eight months ago.
Speaker 2: The parents come in tonight. I hate seeing the sad parents.
Speaker 2: I think it's my least favorite thing.
Speaker 3: They're so sad too. They're so sad.
Speaker 2: So they show the parents all the bags of evidence
Speaker 2: and they're reacting, but they've never seen that necklace. They
Speaker 2: don't know where this necklace has come from. So they
Speaker 2: have to rush over to a different scientist with the
Speaker 2: necklace and he goes, yeah, honestly, I don't know if
Speaker 2: she's a runaway or a street kid, how she had
Speaker 2: this necklace on her. Because this is worth a grand
Speaker 2: near a grand. He says it's platinum, so and then
Speaker 2: he goes but it's not a mainstream like the fact
Speaker 2: that they even say this, it's like, is this real
Speaker 2: or not? These details are what make svus so special.
Speaker 2: So it's not a mainstream necklace because it's coated in rhodium,
Speaker 2: so it has to be handmade.
Speaker 1: What jewelry specialists, I guess, I mean yeah, but they're
Speaker 1: saying she would have sold it right, like because it's
Speaker 1: worth so much.
Speaker 3: So she's probably not a street kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or would have been like beat up at a
Speaker 2: shelter and it would have been taken. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Curly Sue, Yeah, yeah, one of the main reasons people
Speaker 1: don't go to shelters. Yeah, okay, because of Curly Sue.
Speaker 1: Because of Curly Sue the movie. Yes, famously, when we
Speaker 1: go live on tour, let's just put on Curly Sue
Speaker 1: and see what happens.
Speaker 3: We don't do the podcast.
Speaker 1: I Love Where Today is going like we're at twenty
Speaker 1: three minutes and.
Speaker 3: We're fight Oh my god, this is a nightmare. Okay.
Speaker 2: So he they trace it to a little shop in
Speaker 2: the village. The man is obviously gay because it's a
Speaker 2: jewelry store. This is like Florist's. We're not going to
Speaker 2: go to any of these places and not see a
Speaker 2: gay man there, so it's Rass Saint Clair played by
Speaker 2: Brian Ready. He's a very books you know actor, but
Speaker 2: he's a Seinfeld person, so I obviously have to have him.
Speaker 3: He is the high talker.
Speaker 1: He's Noreene's husband Dan, and Elaine thinks she's talking to
Speaker 1: Nourine on the phone and it's like, ooh, you were
Speaker 1: flirting with Jerry.
Speaker 3: And then I love this episode.
Speaker 1: It's like a female he has a man with a
Speaker 1: female voice. Basically, that's so funny.
Speaker 3: Ross Saint Clair.
Speaker 1: This man's sexuality has nothing to do with the plot,
Speaker 1: but his name is Ross Saint Clair.
Speaker 3: They're telling you everything you need to know. I think, yes.
Speaker 1: And he owns a jewelry store. Come on, come on,
Speaker 1: so it's eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: It something happened or she was wearing my infinity whoa
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, I make these custom for Garrett Lang.
Speaker 2: He's a regular. His assistant came in with a drawing
Speaker 2: and usually I make only my own stuff, but this guy,
Speaker 2: he orders like one hundred of them at a time.
Speaker 3: That's eighty grand. So love that.
Speaker 2: And he handed out the business card fast and I
Speaker 2: love that.
Speaker 3: He's not like oh, Warrence, my patience, my this Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't have.
Speaker 1: A fuck my confidentiality in my jewelry store.
Speaker 2: I just love the He's like, yeah, go fucking talk
Speaker 2: to him. I have I have jewels to make. I'm
Speaker 2: all Saint Clair and I'm busy. So they visit this
Speaker 2: wild clinic spiral staircase Marla called Marl Marble Marla Marble
Speaker 2: column vibes, and there's a giant ring hanging in the
Speaker 2: middle with an infinity symbol. This is It looks like
Speaker 2: a Vegas style ring. Someone should be contortion tricks in it. Anymoment.
Speaker 2: Pink is about to go do a show up there.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2: So he uh he says he gives him to all
Speaker 2: his patients, and it's like, what the fuck. Then he
Speaker 2: starts talking about stamina. And this guy kind of looks
Speaker 2: like a poor Man's Ashton Kutcher.
Speaker 3: Absolutely that is the best. I kept thinking. He looks
Speaker 3: so familiar.
Speaker 1: Poor Man's Ashton Kutcher is perfect, So I will be
Speaker 1: going back from calling him doctor Garrett Lang Ashton.
Speaker 2: So either of those names throughout this episode will work.
Speaker 2: And he is a serious regular from Queerra's Folk and
Speaker 2: that was his big thing.
Speaker 3: His name's Gail Harold.
Speaker 2: He's been on Desperate Housewives, and I do not trust him.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's this thing of like why are
Speaker 2: you handing out expensive things? If you watch Inventing Anna
Speaker 2: with Anna Delvi, she was like tipping with hundreds, very obviously,
Speaker 2: and the hotel worker's boyfriend goes, why does she have
Speaker 2: to do that? Rich people don't need to show off,
Speaker 2: like she's trying to prove something. And that's how I
Speaker 2: feel like right away, I'm like, why are you giving
Speaker 2: out these expensive necklaces to people? I don't believe it.
Speaker 2: He starts talking about injections to sastrun hormones. I think
Speaker 2: he's a quack. I don't know is he doing botox?
Speaker 2: I don't know what he does?
Speaker 1: You do? You know he's he's talking about like giving
Speaker 1: you like treatments that can just like enhance your performance,
Speaker 1: like in your life, like make you feel It's fountain
Speaker 1: of youth bullshit, like it's like young, make you feel younger,
Speaker 1: make you feel faster, better at sex, like you know
Speaker 1: everything like that that he's a quack for sure. Death
Speaker 1: becomes her? Yes, I wrote, Yes, now a morning go on.
Speaker 2: So he's denying he knows this girl Samantha and says
Speaker 2: he does not treat children. But he goes, you know,
Speaker 2: my patients, say a lot of people ask about these necklaces,
Speaker 2: like this is sad, but I obviously can't give you
Speaker 2: a list of my patients.
Speaker 3: Obviously not.
Speaker 2: So now we're zooming back to reality from the clinic
Speaker 2: or at the sixteenth Precinct, and Munch is giving us
Speaker 2: a rundown on doctor Ashton. He says, he's so I
Speaker 2: hate saying this, Sam kum laud summa cum laude. What
Speaker 2: does that mean? Second place? You were kind of smart,
Speaker 2: but not the smartest.
Speaker 1: It's it's the highest gpa, Like it's the highest, like
Speaker 1: a few people graduate at the top of the class.
Speaker 1: That summa cumlad You can be kum laude, magna cum laude,
Speaker 1: summa cum laude. And I'm sure someone's gonna tell me
Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing this wrong, but I think I'm I'm close
Speaker 1: to as Latin is not a spoken language anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys are nerds, so what do we care?
Speaker 2: So he went to Stanford, that's a brand name. Then
Speaker 2: he went to Yale for his MZ and PhD residency
Speaker 2: with a focus on OBG y N and infertility and
Speaker 2: reproductive endocrinologist. Get the fuck away from Craigan makes a
Speaker 2: good point. With all these credentials, he's just working at
Speaker 2: some feel good clinic, Like that doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't he be doing something greater with his knowledge.
Speaker 2: He is in a lot of papers with high society,
Speaker 2: and he believes that hormones can reverse the aging process.
Speaker 2: So Finn pops in with a bird and he's like,
Speaker 2: sounds like a lunatic fringe of medicine.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I kind of I like what Finn
Speaker 3: says anything.
Speaker 2: I loved the post for his birthday and everyone had
Speaker 2: all their favorite lines.
Speaker 3: That was really special.
Speaker 2: You guys really came through, really a nice way to
Speaker 2: celebrate our man. So him and Munch argue about like
Speaker 2: what they think is going on, and my Ice is
Speaker 2: like maybe a pedophile, maybe like karas that fountain of youth. Also,
Speaker 2: necklace can't tie him to like you know, the necklace
Speaker 2: can't really tie him to this body. And the autopsy
Speaker 2: is backlogged, so what are we gonna do? Craigan sends
Speaker 2: them to the Morgue to get to like wait there
Speaker 2: until the data gets ready.
Speaker 3: So what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: There's so much confusion, So Benson and Stable meet up
Speaker 2: with Melinda again. Trace is a facial tissue and dried
Speaker 2: saliva being tested for DNA. There's a blood clot to
Speaker 2: the left lung due to severe dehydration and liquids deprived
Speaker 2: for five to ten days, so the blood turned to sludge.
Speaker 2: We talked about it with the ooze, so she was
Speaker 2: locked away. But what's fucked up is when you get
Speaker 2: your period, one to two eggs get released, but Samantha
Speaker 2: had twelve eggs released at the exact same time, and
Speaker 2: that only happens with IVF and fake shit. And she's
Speaker 2: fourteen years old, so it's impossible for ever have this,
Speaker 2: and she was carrying an eight week old fetus. Shit
Speaker 2: is twisted, and the doctor's obviously connected to whatever egg
Speaker 2: shit this is if he's an obgin. So now we're
Speaker 2: at a walk and talk with Alex Cabot. She's of
Speaker 2: course like, not enough evidence, and he goes, come on,
Speaker 2: do it. No, we won't stand in cork. You have
Speaker 2: to find a direct link. So they do this. So
Speaker 2: we got to get financials that's what we can get.
Speaker 2: That's what Alex Cabot can get from her face with
Speaker 2: the judges is some financials. There's not one phone under
Speaker 2: his name, suspicious, but everything is under the business. He
Speaker 2: is worth around five million cash and he has real
Speaker 2: estate holdings five times that. And one of the buildings
Speaker 2: is a tax to exempt status building, so that, of
Speaker 2: course peques little Stabler's interest. And it's a nonprofit foundation
Speaker 2: for Knowledge Expansion. It's an educational enrichment program for young
Speaker 2: women at risk. It's in Chelsea, so obviously we're going honey.
Speaker 2: So they're staking outside seeing what's up. But it's not
Speaker 2: usual troubled kid vibes, so they don't get it. And
Speaker 2: then they see a girl and they're both like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: that girl looks so familiar walking into the center.
Speaker 3: Who is that?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's Jessica Morse. She went missing. They
Speaker 2: recognize her from the posters. There were so many posters
Speaker 2: of this missing girl. And it's New York City. Of course,
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler know about all the missing girls in town,
Speaker 2: so they rush the build. An old lady Batty comes up,
Speaker 2: and this is Barbara Barry. She has one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventeen IMDb credit. It's very exciting. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of our listeners will be happy to know she was
Speaker 2: the voice of Hercules's mom in the Disney animated hit Hercules.
Speaker 3: That people really like. That one.
Speaker 2: That wasn't a big one to me, But there is
Speaker 2: a Hercules Disney stand club on a. Lisa's nodding, so
Speaker 2: I'm in it.
Speaker 3: I'm in it. Born in Chicago in nineteen thirty one,
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: That's that's exciting. And she has tiny, tiny lips, you know,
Speaker 2: she like Miranda Priestley pursing her lips and Devil Wears
Speaker 2: Prada is how this woman's mouth is at all times.
Speaker 1: And that is her I And she's the thumbnail for
Speaker 1: this episode, and you always just kind of like when
Speaker 1: you see this episode on her, you're like, ah, right,
Speaker 1: it's this.
Speaker 3: Yes, She's everything to me.
Speaker 2: Like if one day I am about to win a
Speaker 2: million dollars and they show me her face, I'll know
Speaker 2: exactly who it is.
Speaker 3: She has a white hair pixie cut.
Speaker 2: They bust inside the school and she's like, excuse me,
Speaker 2: but they saw a missing girl. They have every right
Speaker 2: to run into that Brownstone So we find out this
Speaker 2: woman is a licensed teacher and these are her students.
Speaker 3: So there's girls and desks.
Speaker 2: There's a few girls there, and she says she finds
Speaker 2: the girls on the streets. Her name is Paula Haggerty,
Speaker 2: and she gives them a safe place to live, food
Speaker 2: and education. Benson is not having any of it, arrests her,
Speaker 2: dumb ass and says, well, now they're going back home
Speaker 2: to their parents.
Speaker 3: How about that? And when she handcuffs her, guess what.
Speaker 2: Paula Haggerty has an infinity symbol tattoo on the inside
Speaker 2: of her arms, so we know that she's connected. An
Speaker 2: old lady doesn't just get an infinity tattoo. It's not
Speaker 2: like that was trendy in the seventies. We know exactly
Speaker 2: when that became popular. Hello, Tiffany's brand jewelry. I think
Speaker 2: that's what brought or maybe that's just to me, but
Speaker 2: that's what made the infinity symbol known to me, was Tiffany's.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, you knew about it before. Oh I
Speaker 1: didn't know math Tiffany Infinity. Yeah. I knew about it
Speaker 1: for Math and like I've seen people's tattoos of it.
Speaker 2: Actually, no I didn't know about it till those necklaces. Like
Speaker 2: if you want it to be different, you wanted Tiffany's,
Speaker 2: but a little different.
Speaker 3: They're bad girl's Tiffany. God, I just want to go
Speaker 3: into Tiffany's and treat it like Claire's. Like, wouldn't that
Speaker 3: be so fun? Yeah, you don't even Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not as I'm not as your jewelry focus. You
Speaker 1: know me on, I'm not that jewelry focus.
Speaker 3: But I you.
Speaker 1: Know you love delicate jewels, you love delicate necklaces, you
Speaker 1: got you like jewelry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't want to put set up high
Speaker 2: expectations and then our listeners meet us and go your
Speaker 2: jewelry games actually just average, you know. I just don't.
Speaker 2: I just don't want that to happen. She says, yes,
Speaker 2: I love my tattoo. It's for infinite potential. Stabler runs
Speaker 2: to get the missing girl. Jessica says, long blonde hair.
Speaker 2: She says, I'm not who you think I am. He says,
Speaker 2: your family wants you back. She says, my name is Marjorie,
Speaker 2: it's not Jessica, and this is my family.
Speaker 3: Hello, we say brainwash, and this actress is Kimberly J. Brown.
Speaker 2: You might know her as Halloween Town Girl aka A
Speaker 2: Quinn's aka the Missing Girl. Hello, this is huge Halloween
Speaker 2: Town hit like a crux this year. I saw it everywhere,
Speaker 2: So this is very cool to see her in this
Speaker 2: and blonde. We are here and stable in her are
Speaker 2: trying to have a moment, and now we're cutting to
Speaker 2: Lady Haggarty and she's an interrogation and she has a lawyer.
Speaker 3: The lawyer is sexy. Oh and this woman, the lawyer
Speaker 3: is played by Laura Herring.
Speaker 1: And she is really famous for this David Lynch movie
Speaker 1: called Mulholland Drive, and that's I think, like her claim
Speaker 1: to fame. She's from Mexico. I was like trying to
Speaker 1: place her accent, but it's very subtle. She's but that
Speaker 1: movie is very boring and I couldn't get through it.
Speaker 3: It was Yeah, I don't know, did you.
Speaker 1: Get to the make did you get to the sex
Speaker 1: scene with Naomi Once?
Speaker 3: I don't think so, Like, I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I don't know if me and David Lynch vibe because
Speaker 2: that's twin peaks too, right, Yeah, didn't care boring, fell asleep.
Speaker 3: I just don't care. What else has he done.
Speaker 1: He's done blue Velvet twin peaks wild at heart like
Speaker 1: he's a lot of Laura durn stuff.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it. Yeah, and this is what I'm learning.
Speaker 3: She's like David, she's his muse. I do love Laura.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the I'm sorry? Have you seen the
Speaker 1: the meme of uh me? Of Julia Fox going I
Speaker 1: was I was Brian Softi's muse and uncut Jobs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course it's my favorite uncut jobs.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're all the time continues, so.
Speaker 2: We're an interrogation. Benson goes, fuck you. She goes, I
Speaker 2: just tried to help them. Their parents mistreated them, and
Speaker 2: Craigan goes, how would you even fucking note that? And
Speaker 2: I guess she studied psychology, which is not a real
Speaker 2: major like dumb bitch's major in psychology all the time.
Speaker 3: It's not real.
Speaker 2: And as a sociology major, I feel like I could
Speaker 2: say that unless you have a PhD, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Or maybe people do learn and retain information from college.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm the fool.
Speaker 2: So Craigan says, she must know that the like that
Speaker 2: teens aren't always right about their parents. Being the worst,
Speaker 2: like you, you know from Street Wise, like some parents
Speaker 2: are kind of fine. And the lawyer like I said, hot,
Speaker 2: hot hot, And we find out that Lang started the
Speaker 2: foundation of knowledge, So okay, we're connecting it. He probably
Speaker 2: like he denied knowing the dead girl, but he is
Speaker 2: part of this foundation. Everyone's wearing this necklace like fuck you,
Speaker 2: We're gonna get you. Paula Haggerty doesn't deny seeing Samantha
Speaker 2: two right, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Thank you for adding that. Yes, listen, yes, I only
Speaker 3: have what I have.
Speaker 2: I've only seen this episode at least fifteen to two
Speaker 2: twenty dollars. So and the lawyer, of course, my favorite
Speaker 2: line are what are we doing here? Are you charging?
Speaker 2: And they go kidnapping, like you are being charged? Like
Speaker 2: you're not gonna walk out of here. There's kidnapping. So
Speaker 2: Stabler and law and you know are Halloween Town girl Jessica.
Speaker 2: They're having a conversation and he goes, your parents miss
Speaker 2: you this, and she goes, no, no, no, no, I love
Speaker 2: Miss Haggarty and she's crying a little, and Stabler's talking
Speaker 2: about how our family loves and misses her, and she
Speaker 2: is just fully on team Haggarty and needs to be
Speaker 2: with Haggarty, belongs with Paula Haggerty.
Speaker 3: Why can't you see that?
Speaker 2: I know everyone thinks I was kidnapped, but I ran
Speaker 2: away because my parents didn't understand me. And Haggarty saved
Speaker 2: my life and took me off the streets and feeds
Speaker 2: and teaches us. So you know she loves this woman,
Speaker 2: and that Paula taught all the girls that they need
Speaker 2: to respect themselves. And Stabler pulls out the big guns
Speaker 2: and takes out a photo of dead Samantha and goes,
Speaker 2: is this one of the girls?
Speaker 3: And she says, Noah.
Speaker 2: She fiddles with her necklace and starts playing it with it,
Speaker 2: which is an obvious line moment.
Speaker 3: If you start playing with the necklace, you're lying.
Speaker 2: Rule of culture. Can we just rip off another podcast
Speaker 2: full segment? Do we have to pay them ten cents
Speaker 2: every time we say it is legal? Gonna get involved?
Speaker 2: So we cut to Craigan looking through the blinds like
Speaker 2: a boy little neighbor, talking to George Kuang and Cabot
Speaker 2: and Benson.
Speaker 3: They're all talking like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: So one girl's from Denver, one from Chicago, one from
Speaker 2: Omaha and one from Detroit. They're all high profile cases
Speaker 2: because they all came from wealthy or upper class families.
Speaker 1: So very street wise. Again, not to mention it, you
Speaker 1: know our past episodes over and over again.
Speaker 3: But we did street Wise. What are you gonna do
Speaker 3: about it?
Speaker 2: So b D, with a pertinent question, asks how do
Speaker 2: the girls react to being found? And they go, oh, pissed.
Speaker 2: They denied their real names, they deny that they were kidnapped,
Speaker 2: and they just all want to go back to missus.
Speaker 2: Haggerty and Cabot asks if this is Stockholm syndrome, but
Speaker 2: B D. Wong says no, this is like full devotion brainwashing.
Speaker 2: It's kind of different. But they can't hold anybody, so
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, they really can't connect
Speaker 2: Lang or Haggarty and the most they could do is
Speaker 2: custodial intervention, which is a misdemeanor. So they don't really
Speaker 2: know what can happen. And Kwang says, listen, I think
Speaker 2: this is a cult. And if Samantha got punished, she
Speaker 2: went against the cult guidelines, so something happen. And this
Speaker 2: was a re educating which involves locking up, depriving and
Speaker 2: stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So and the emmy said that that is how she died.
Speaker 2: So they really need to get all the evidence together
Speaker 2: and really prove this case. So Craigan goes, oh my god,
Speaker 2: So if they're holding more girls other places, like we
Speaker 2: only found a few of the necklaces, like, we have
Speaker 2: to find what's happening. So they go back to raid
Speaker 2: the original foundation Brownstone. They find nothing like Homeland style nothing.
Speaker 2: Everything is taken out, nothing is left behind. So that
Speaker 2: shows innocence to me. I think this is you've obviously
Speaker 2: done nothing wrong. And there's a long commercial break pause
Speaker 2: here obviously, and we're back from the commercial and we're
Speaker 2: at work mode. We're trying to crack the case. Benson
Speaker 2: says that three trucks showed up and cleared the place
Speaker 2: in less than two hours.
Speaker 3: But who told them that? I'm confused.
Speaker 2: None of the girls were allowed near a phone, like
Speaker 2: so it had to be Haggardy or the lawyer. But
Speaker 2: with the lawyer risk losing her license by obstruction of justice, like,
Speaker 2: how did this happen? So Jessica reunites with her parents.
Speaker 2: She's not that happy about it, and everyone at the
Speaker 2: priestcinct is staring and she's just like, okay, I don't
Speaker 2: really like my parents, and Craigan goes, wow, cults, they're wild.
Speaker 2: So we cut to a fancy lawyer office and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of wood fake Ashton's there in an eight
Speaker 2: piece suit. We have Haggarty and the sexy lawyer and
Speaker 2: George is with them, and Ashton's like, who are you
Speaker 2: and he goes, FBI babe and he loves to say that.
Speaker 2: So they asked who cleaned out the foundation and they go,
Speaker 2: how would we know?
Speaker 3: We have no idea.
Speaker 2: They're like it had to be one of you, guys,
Speaker 2: So what's going on here? And the lawyer says, very calmly,
Speaker 2: are you accusing me of a crime? And Benson's like,
Speaker 2: well you all you have the same lawyer. This is weird.
Speaker 3: You're all weird. Stop denying.
Speaker 2: Stop being meaning leaks at a reunion on Bravo, like,
Speaker 2: you know you're acting different, acknowledge it. Something shady is happening,
Speaker 2: like like something's afoot, guys. Ashton says, yes, I did
Speaker 2: call Joan as soon as you took you know, Paula away.
Speaker 2: We love her and he's like, you're wrong, and Benson says, no,
Speaker 2: you're wrong, and you did in vitro on. Samantha like,
Speaker 2: what are we wrong about that? And he says, maybe
Speaker 2: another obgu I n could have done that. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not me, and Stabler goes, sure she had your
Speaker 2: necklace and had all these eggs, but that's okay, Like
Speaker 2: shut up, and he says any questions from the FBI
Speaker 2: agent Huang Bold Bold Bold Bold, and bde Wong is like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're enjoying this, don't you, doctor Lang, you fucking love this,
Speaker 2: and he responds, no, I enjoy helping girls thrive and
Speaker 2: realize their full potential.
Speaker 1: Clearly a psychopath. I don't trust him. Sorry, we have
Speaker 1: to close you down. Also like, why don't you care
Speaker 1: about helping boys?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, first time of my life I care
Speaker 2: about the boys.
Speaker 3: But I will help the boys.
Speaker 2: And of course we have another bingo line with the
Speaker 2: lawyer and she says, if you're not charging us with
Speaker 2: a crime, you gotta leave again, but this time it works,
Speaker 2: so they all have to leave, and George is like,
Speaker 2: you know what, that guy is a narcissistic bastard and
Speaker 2: he loves being in charge, and like even the lawyer
Speaker 2: defers to him before speaking, So of course teens would
Speaker 2: be impressed with someone like that. He seems like he's
Speaker 2: really smart and accomplished, and teens are super vulnerable and
Speaker 2: then they're like and not that attractive and get bad
Speaker 2: grades and social outcasts. And it's like, Okay, that's pretty harsh, Stabler,
Speaker 2: you're just calling all these kidnapped women like unattractive. It
Speaker 2: was just a wild moment where he's like, they're ugly,
Speaker 2: they're dumb, they're unpopular, they have nothing to offer society.
Speaker 2: They know that they're easy prey, and we're like, okay, Stabler, cool,
Speaker 2: but yeah, you know, there are people who didn't fit
Speaker 2: in and now they fit in here and they get
Speaker 2: the approval and affection that they've been they've been missing,
Speaker 2: and they get love bombed and they're loyal for life.
Speaker 3: It's a teenage girl's dream. You're perfect the way you are.
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting they talked about love bombing
Speaker 1: because I have just been hearing about that now recently. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in like dating and stuff, and I had never really
Speaker 1: heard that phrase before. Yeah, this episode is from like
Speaker 1: two thousand and three or four, so it's like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's always ahead of their time, but
Speaker 2: love bombing is very in right now, So soopath is in,
Speaker 2: toxic is in a lot of That's what's on Instagram
Speaker 2: at the moment.
Speaker 3: It would just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like with mid with West Elm, there was a
Speaker 1: guy named like west Elm Caleb, this guy who this
Speaker 1: girl her TikTok blew up because she like outed this
Speaker 1: guy for being like a serial dater and a jerk
Speaker 1: who would like go on dates with girls like love
Speaker 1: bomb them, be like I'm obsessed with you, like everything
Speaker 1: about you is perfect, and then like never call them again.
Speaker 1: And he got blown up. And I think he was
Speaker 1: a furniture designer for West Elm, so he got called
Speaker 1: west Elm Caleb. I saw that, but I refuse to
Speaker 1: learn about it. So thank you for filling me in.
Speaker 3: I can't not know. That is amazing. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2: That we're becoming more and more attuned to dangerous people
Speaker 2: out in the world that can ruin our lives.
Speaker 3: But also we can't overuse it. Yeah, or we can
Speaker 3: and we do. Who cares?
Speaker 2: But yeah, if someone becomes obsessed with you, you're not
Speaker 2: that cool, like they're they're using you.
Speaker 3: Sorry, is that what we're telling people? I just think
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, trust your gut.
Speaker 1: If you feel like someone's love bombing you and it's
Speaker 1: not authentic and it's not like they haven't known you
Speaker 1: long enough to love bomb you, then something's up that's
Speaker 1: red flag.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Stabler goes, there's no way these girls found
Speaker 2: them on accident, Like, there's no fucking way. And Georgia
Speaker 2: grees like these girls were targets. How did they find them?
Speaker 2: But instead of going to a new location, we're like
Speaker 2: back to the sad grieving parents. So that sucks. Their
Speaker 2: eyes are wet as hell, but they do have good information.
Speaker 2: They're like, wait, you said she was murdered. Now you're
Speaker 2: saying she's homeless. Now this now that like what are
Speaker 2: you doing?
Speaker 1: Or like turning the knife and twisting it harder, Like
Speaker 1: she was starved to death and left in an alley.
Speaker 3: Why did you have to tell them that? There's no
Speaker 3: reason they need to know she was starving and being tortured.
Speaker 3: What the fuck? SVU.
Speaker 2: But we do need to know her routine to see
Speaker 2: if something clicks, and something does click. She started getting
Speaker 2: bad grades, fell into a bad crowd, so they put
Speaker 2: her in a remedial tutoring center. That helped kids realize
Speaker 2: their full potential.
Speaker 3: Ding ding ding ding ding.
Speaker 2: So that is the center for knowledge builders, and they're
Speaker 2: rushing fast to get some information on this place where
Speaker 2: maybe the girls are being taken from.
Speaker 3: But the quote is exactly the same. This is this
Speaker 3: has to be it.
Speaker 2: So they go to a place they show the photo
Speaker 2: of Samantha and this woman in a white tank in
Speaker 2: a blazer's like, no, no, no, never seen her before.
Speaker 2: And the woman asked like, why are you guys here,
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, the girl actually attended this center,
Speaker 2: so this is pretty awkward that you have no idea
Speaker 2: who she is. And then Stabler brings up like, also
Speaker 2: a girl that went missing in Philly also went to
Speaker 2: one of these centers in Philly. And this woman goes,
Speaker 2: I don't like her insinuation, detective, and I love the
Speaker 2: way she said it, and he goes, well, I don't
Speaker 2: like liars, and she goes, well, if you're gonna be
Speaker 2: rude this conversations, oh, I just love everything. But basically
Speaker 2: she has an Infinity symbol tattoo in the inside of
Speaker 2: her arm. So she goes, what, we're just trying to
Speaker 2: help kids Reathe wait, I got jams, did I do.
Speaker 3: Okay, I've been to that.
Speaker 1: Was the first time I've tried it.
Speaker 3: It was good. So she's like, listen, full potential quote.
Speaker 3: Is that a crime?
Speaker 2: And Benson goes, well, yeah, if doctor Lange paid for it,
Speaker 2: then yes, this is fucked up. And she goes, oh
Speaker 2: my god, Garrett Lang, our hearts, our eyes, We love him,
Speaker 2: love him. He's a generous, forward thinking man. Whatever.
Speaker 3: So she's like, he's an investor.
Speaker 2: They could pause for a little bit, but we got
Speaker 2: to go to home base.
Speaker 3: We gotta have like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this woman has a lawyer and basically all
Speaker 2: the girls that went to the center, he pays for
Speaker 2: the center. Then Haggarty teaches them. So Koonderski is the
Speaker 2: woman at the center, recruits them, he teaches them, and
Speaker 2: Quinton the lawyer, protects and he has all these women
Speaker 2: doing his dirty work. So now what can.
Speaker 1: I also just say that every single person in this
Speaker 1: episode like doesn't give a single tell when they look
Speaker 1: at these photos of these girls, they're all like no,
Speaker 1: Like they all are like no, never seen them, like
Speaker 1: perfect deflection, Like none of them are even like no,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like everyone's just like never
Speaker 1: seen them.
Speaker 2: Nope, yes, So like I'm just four people, yeah, Like
Speaker 2: I feel desperate to be involved in an investigation to help,
Speaker 2: and these people are just like not like I would
Speaker 2: take a double glance.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, did I see her somewhere? You know, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. It's so fucking quick.
Speaker 2: So then Munch finds out that Kandinsky's credit card statements
Speaker 2: put her in the city of each of the other
Speaker 2: girl's disappearance three days before they go missing. But still
Speaker 2: there's no smoking gun. They need a smoking gun. All
Speaker 2: the girls have gone home already though, so maybe we
Speaker 2: can get it from Jessica. So they go harass Jessica
Speaker 2: at the townhouse. Jessica and Stablers sit outside and behind
Speaker 2: the glass of like a really nice home. Benson's speaking
Speaker 2: to the parents, but they focus on Jessica and Stabler,
Speaker 2: who's wearing an amazing corduroy coat that I would love
Speaker 2: to have in my collection of outerwear that I don't wear.
Speaker 3: That Hanks there.
Speaker 2: So Stabler's doing creepy, creepy like familiar we're friends like
Speaker 2: tricking to get information, but she really misses Paula Haggerty
Speaker 2: and she's like, do you really think she did something wrong?
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, I do, and she says she
Speaker 2: thinks that Paula is the most wonderful woman alive ever,
Speaker 2: and she thinks Garrett's the best ever. And he's just
Speaker 2: trying to get some sort of information, and finally we
Speaker 2: get some crazy that Garrett Lang is going to save
Speaker 2: the world. The ozone layer is disappearing and the uv
Speaker 2: rays will make everyone sterile, so the only way our
Speaker 2: species will survive is by cloning living cells. Jessica is
Speaker 2: pregnant and he chose her to be the one of
Speaker 2: the mothers of the future. So Stabler says, you're carrying
Speaker 2: a cloned baby. She goes, yes, I'm a dumb and
Speaker 2: I am. I think there's a cloned baby inside of me.
Speaker 2: And she thinks that she is helping a family, a
Speaker 2: couple whose baby has died and she's bringing their child
Speaker 2: back to life. And he goes, did you guys fuck
Speaker 2: and she goes, no, he would never. So he took
Speaker 2: baby cells my eggs. YadA YadA, in vitro bada boom
Speaker 2: bata bang. This is what's happening, but like it's made up.
Speaker 1: It's like he took cells and put them in my eggs,
Speaker 1: like it just the sciences, like even a fourteen year
Speaker 1: old should be like okay, but like where's the sperm?
Speaker 3: Like it's so.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they just believe that it's clones. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yale and Stanford are brand names, like maybe you just
Speaker 2: trust people.
Speaker 3: True.
Speaker 2: So we cut to from finding out about in vitro
Speaker 2: to breaking down the doors of a clinic boom boom bam,
Speaker 2: and Benson calls it a little shop of horrors, and
Speaker 2: then they like go midway through him doing an experiment
Speaker 2: on a girl who's like legs are in the stirrups,
Speaker 2: and Benson and Stabler hold little masks to their face,
Speaker 2: which is cute, and he's like, if my person gets
Speaker 2: an infection, and they're like, why would there be an infection?
Speaker 2: I have a little mask holding like you're wearing dirty,
Speaker 2: dirty cop.
Speaker 3: Clothes, like but there's no open wounds. So it's like,
Speaker 3: stop what you're doing. Put the teen girl away. You're like,
Speaker 3: teen girls aren't guinea pigs, you psycho. They're in interrogation
Speaker 3: and they are trying to get to the bottom of
Speaker 3: what's going on. But He's like, honestly, I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to like help the future of humanity, and you've harmed
Speaker 3: her cause, and Benson goes, what's your cause? Praying on
Speaker 3: the grief of parents who have lost their children and
Speaker 3: then promising cloned babies for donations, Like you're a fraud
Speaker 3: and I hope you go to fucking jail and cloning
Speaker 3: is illegal too. Why are you pretending what you're doing
Speaker 3: is right? Like you know, it's fucked up.
Speaker 2: He then brings up Catholicism and Stabler obviously does not
Speaker 2: like that one bit, and he does a classic psychopath move,
Speaker 2: which is comparing yourself to g or greater things, so
Speaker 2: he thinks he's like Galileo Darwin vibes.
Speaker 3: And this reminded me.
Speaker 2: Sorry to talk about New Jersey Housewives again, but I'm
Speaker 2: on a big rewatch. But so, Caroline Manzo's son starts
Speaker 2: hanging out with Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley's daughter Alexa.
Speaker 3: Do you know this?
Speaker 2: But Caroline Manzo talks, She goes, yeah, I mean both
Speaker 2: of our children come from very you know, privileged homes,
Speaker 2: and it's like, did you just compare yourself to Billy Joel?
Speaker 3: And Christie Brinkley.
Speaker 1: I love how this reminds you of that this guy
Speaker 1: comparing himself to Galileo reminds you of Caroline Manzo comparing
Speaker 1: yourself to Billy Joel.
Speaker 3: I mean that is the vibe of this podcast in
Speaker 3: a nutshell.
Speaker 2: But it was just like you think that you're like,
Speaker 2: by owning a catering hole in Jersey and being on
Speaker 2: the Housewives, you're equal to.
Speaker 3: One of the greatest musicians of all time.
Speaker 2: Who's just monthly selling out Madison Square Garden for years
Speaker 2: and like a supermodel of the world. And you're like,
Speaker 2: you know, both of our kids know what it's like
Speaker 2: to be in the limelight.
Speaker 3: Yes, makes sense, makes sense, perfect match.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're not fucking Galileo, you dumb Ashton bitch.
Speaker 3: So then the lawyer then is like, what's the charge?
Speaker 2: Like shut up, and Bensi is sexy as fuck, and
Speaker 2: stone cold stares her down and goes fraud and aggravated
Speaker 2: sexual abuse, and I love it's like, stop pretending nothing
Speaker 2: is going on, Like there are real charges, you fuckers.
Speaker 2: And he's confident that the charges won't stand in court.
Speaker 2: And Cabot and Craigan have been spying through the glass,
Speaker 2: and Cabot says he's right, let him loose. She's so,
Speaker 2: I just hate this, Like I love this show so much.
Speaker 1: Half of her job is going I need more cut
Speaker 1: him loose. That's literally fifty percent of her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like from now on, I think all the lawyers scenes,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go the classic leave me alone. No,
Speaker 2: I will always just keep talking and never shut up.
Speaker 1: But it is like, this is a weird part because like,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind me just summarizing this next bit,
Speaker 1: she goes, little, teens don't need consent to get pregnant,
Speaker 1: and it's true.
Speaker 3: It's like we don't want.
Speaker 1: To get caught up in like the legalities of oh well,
Speaker 1: if you need consent to get pregnant, then you need
Speaker 1: consent to get an abortion and all this stuff, Like
Speaker 1: we need to leave reproductive rights very fluid, and that's
Speaker 1: what this guy is praying on the fact that reproductive
Speaker 1: rights with teens is like very open.
Speaker 3: It's like legal thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it's like, yeah, if teens are allowed
Speaker 2: to get pregnant, we can't really dictate how they get pregnant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so thank you for summarizing it.
Speaker 1: I just thought that was interesting because it was like
Speaker 1: I could see at this point why cabits like can'tently
Speaker 1: do much.
Speaker 2: Absolutely about Kragan's Like, ahh, this is like Mangola, this
Speaker 2: is Nazi shit, Like I'm not for it.
Speaker 1: So there are, you know, oun opposite ends of more
Speaker 1: of whatever. They're having a discussion.
Speaker 2: Alex Kabot goes, how many more times do I have
Speaker 2: to tell you this? We can only get him if
Speaker 2: you connect him to Samantha Tassler's death, like she's probably
Speaker 2: at wits end, like what you guys understand, like connect
Speaker 2: connect it. So they run, they run some Melinda, and
Speaker 2: Melinda goes, listen, I'm ruling the homicide. The DNA in
Speaker 2: the cheek belongs to Paula Haggarty. Oh no, Melinda is
Speaker 2: in a tight bun, which I think rarely happens too.
Speaker 2: And also Samantha was pregnant, there was a fetus, so
Speaker 2: the and then so thank god they could get the
Speaker 2: father's DNA of those fetus. It is not a clone,
Speaker 2: so we will need Lang's DNA to prove that it's
Speaker 2: his baby, and it is. So the father of the
Speaker 2: baby is little baby Ashton Lang. And so this is
Speaker 2: huge so now they cut to Jessica in a high
Speaker 2: ponytail with wispy bangs, and she's like, my parents are
Speaker 2: trying to make me give up my baby, and she
Speaker 2: seems really bummed, and Stable goes, you know why we
Speaker 2: got your baby DNA tested. She goes, yeah, make sure
Speaker 2: the baby's okay, and he goes, actually, we're full of tricks.
Speaker 2: We're the NYPD, and we found out who the father
Speaker 2: is and it's laying and you've been lied to and
Speaker 2: it's not a cloned baby. It's impossible, and he is
Speaker 2: the father of your baby. And she screams no, and
Speaker 2: he goes, it's the truth. I'm sorry, but it's true,
Speaker 2: and she goes no, and you know they're trying to
Speaker 2: get her on their on her, you know, they're trying
Speaker 2: to get her to testify. They need Jessica's cooperation at
Speaker 2: the end of the day. And she thought she was
Speaker 2: helping a couple and he goes, no, you know, Lang
Speaker 2: trick them too, so it's a problem.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of tears.
Speaker 2: So then she finally spills the beans, the beans that
Speaker 2: we've been waiting for. Samantha told Jessica that she knew
Speaker 2: doctor Lang was a fake and she was going to
Speaker 2: report him to the police. And so Jessica went and
Speaker 2: told Paula Haggerty on her and then no one saw
Speaker 2: Samantha again. So she will be living with his guilt
Speaker 2: forever and it is her fault and maybe she should
Speaker 2: get some jail fucking time too, because if it was
Speaker 2: her lie. So Paula said that Samantha had to be
Speaker 2: reasoned with and she took her away and that was that.
Speaker 2: So now we cut to court and we have the
Speaker 2: sexy lawyer Ashton, an old lady Haggarty in a row
Speaker 2: and Jessica's on the stand describing the empty room with
Speaker 2: the bucket they put Samantha in, how she never saw
Speaker 2: her again, and how she didn't know that she was
Speaker 2: dead until the cops busted in a week ago. Now
Speaker 2: the cross examination is rough. You know, obviously the defense
Speaker 2: attorney is going to go for her. I really like
Speaker 2: Halloween Towns headband in this. So the defense attorney does
Speaker 2: her job and goes, there wasn't a lock on the door,
Speaker 2: you could have left, and you believed about the cloning,
Speaker 2: So you're dumb, So what could we even trust you?
Speaker 3: You're someone that believed in.
Speaker 2: Cloning, and she goes, since you did believe in all
Speaker 2: this cloning, and you thought this was real, and you
Speaker 2: were mad at Samantha, and you did believe that Samantha
Speaker 2: deserved to be punished, so like you thought this would happen.
Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, I didn't think she was gonna
Speaker 2: be killed. Like there's a difference between a little punishment
Speaker 2: and full on, disgusting, cockroach bite death. So they keep
Speaker 2: grilling her. She's crying, She's giving a performance of a lifetime.
Speaker 2: She is very much killing it in her little sweater set. Now,
Speaker 2: Nerd Boy takes the core and talks about how close
Speaker 2: he is to cloning humans. But Cabot brings up Dolly
Speaker 2: the Sheep iconic. That's a perfect snatch game. I hope
Speaker 2: someone does snatch game is Dolly the Sheep.
Speaker 1: I think that would be really good. But Dolly, but
Speaker 1: they talk like Dolly Parton a little bit. Okay, I
Speaker 1: see where you're going. I see where you're going.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you said Dolly Parton, And I
Speaker 2: just got an urge for grilled cheese. That took over
Speaker 2: my life like I was fucking pregnant, Like I just
Speaker 2: bled so I know I'm not, but I want grilled
Speaker 2: cheese right now.
Speaker 1: But like birds, a little like bubbly cheese. Why does
Speaker 1: Dolly bring you that thought?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Life is weird, our brains are okay.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe you saw a picture of Dolly eating
Speaker 1: a grilled cheese one time or something.
Speaker 2: No, it's truly psychotic. I'm unhinged. I'm losing it. This
Speaker 2: episode is driving me to the end. I like, cannot
Speaker 2: and I cannot.
Speaker 3: You only have another page? I can't. You can do it.
Speaker 3: There's still eight more sets. Like that's the thing.
Speaker 2: You think we're in court and it's done, and it's
Speaker 2: not like we're still gonna go back to visiting people
Speaker 2: in jail. I'm just like, I just I'm like, I know,
Speaker 2: there's more twists. There's more twists, so you know this
Speaker 2: guy's basically the Wizard of Oz. Like you, why are
Speaker 2: you promising cloned babies to grieving parents if there are
Speaker 2: no cloned babies and you're using your own sperm and
Speaker 2: you're taking their money, Like, how do you not see
Speaker 2: what you're doing as a crime.
Speaker 3: I'm like fucking livid right now.
Speaker 2: And he said the girl's consented and It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they consented, but it's a clone baby is not your
Speaker 2: sperm babies, and cab It did Okay, not her best work.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say this was not her greatest you know
Speaker 2: cross examination that I've ever seen. The defense redirects and
Speaker 2: asks have you ever even stepped foot into that school? No,
Speaker 2: So now they're starting to turn everything on Paula and
Speaker 2: how Paula does everything, and that Lang is never even there.
Speaker 2: So they're throwing Paula under the bus, and that's not good.
Speaker 2: So now Cabbot's doing good girl, good girl stuff. They're
Speaker 2: back in the jail. Paula's in jail grays, but also
Speaker 2: wearing a white turtleneck. I wonder how she negotiated turtleneck wearing.
Speaker 2: But Cabot is trying to help her, saying, you need
Speaker 2: a different lawyer. Langham is here, and this is Peter Hermann,
Speaker 2: who is obviously Murshiko's husband. Okay, he's like they hate
Speaker 2: him in the beginning because he's a defense attorney, but
Speaker 2: he's always there to help and he's kind of their
Speaker 2: go to call when anyone needs help with people they
Speaker 2: love or within their personal lives. So he's a good guy,
Speaker 2: and he's here going, hey, like the squad's trying to help.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to help.
Speaker 2: We're trying to help you because they're they're you know,
Speaker 2: you're gonna martyr yourself for him. And she says he
Speaker 2: gave me something that I lost and eye will never
Speaker 2: turn my back on him, and Cabot knows the scoop
Speaker 2: and goes, your daughter named Carrie, so she's a missing
Speaker 2: person from nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3: She ran away and.
Speaker 2: Paula never saw her daughter again, and that's why she
Speaker 2: wanted to work with teenage girls and give them a home,
Speaker 2: and she wanted to help these teens and also like
Speaker 2: bring to life dead children like she wanted to do
Speaker 2: it all. And she goes, and those parents should have
Speaker 2: treated their daughters better, like fuck them, and Cabba goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: because you were a bad mom, right, and she starts
Speaker 2: to cry. It tears well up, and she goes, Carrie
Speaker 2: was young when my husband left, and I didn't handle
Speaker 2: it well and they fought all the time, and then
Speaker 2: one day her daughter was gone with a note that
Speaker 2: said I have to leave because I have to go
Speaker 2: find a mother. And she puts her hand to her
Speaker 2: mouth and she's crying and this is so sad. And
Speaker 2: then they bring in a surprise visitor. Not only is
Speaker 2: this woman getting turtlenecks, but she's getting tons of visitors.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants to help Paula Haggarty, even though she did
Speaker 2: help kill Samantha. I don't know why we're pretending suddenly
Speaker 2: that like we like this woman. But Jessica runs in
Speaker 2: and she goes, I love my parents, but I still
Speaker 2: love you, and they hug and embrace and I did
Speaker 2: write I love this even though I'm turning my back
Speaker 2: on Paula Haggarty. Now Maloney appears, and Maloney goes, he
Speaker 2: manipulated your pain, and now you must stop. And these
Speaker 2: girls love and trust you, and you're the only one
Speaker 2: to stop him. Cool lingo LFG, let's fucking go. If
Speaker 2: you know about urban dictionary, I learned that. And she
Speaker 2: touches Jessica face. It's sweet. And now we're back to court.
Speaker 2: Haggarty's on the stand and she's talking about how Kondarski
Speaker 2: found the girls at the learning centers and then that's
Speaker 2: where the indoctrination would begin, and then they were brought
Speaker 2: like they were basically told to leave and go to
Speaker 2: New York on their own to avoid kidnapping charges. But
Speaker 2: Marcy gave them money and a fake idea if they
Speaker 2: needed a plane ride. So but you know, some smart
Speaker 2: stuff to avoid kidnapping charges. I'm impressed. And then when
Speaker 2: the girls arrived, Paula would act like their mother, a teacher,
Speaker 2: a nurse and give them hormone injections.
Speaker 3: Not good, not good.
Speaker 2: And right now she's wearing a pretty pink turtleneck and
Speaker 2: I like it. She's turning looks on the stand, really
Speaker 2: making a big statement for turtlenecks. And then she says, listen,
Speaker 2: I reasoned with Samantha. I put her in the basement,
Speaker 2: which is like how we and doctrine, and was ordered
Speaker 2: by doctor Ashton Lang and to knock her water or
Speaker 2: food to reprogram her. And you know, the sixth night
Speaker 2: she went in and Haggarty kind of cracked because so
Speaker 2: Samantha could wasn't moving, and so she'd wanted to give
Speaker 2: her some water, and doctor Link came in. He would
Speaker 2: come in at night, so he's saying he never stepped
Speaker 2: foot into the Brownstone, but actually when the girls went
Speaker 2: to bed every night, he would come in and do
Speaker 2: fucked up shit to her. And when Paula tried to
Speaker 2: give her water, doctor Link took it away and said,
Speaker 2: absolutely not. And Samantha died in fucking Paula's arms because
Speaker 2: he didn't want to get caught. And it's fucked up
Speaker 2: and she was dirty and that's how and like so
Speaker 2: she tried to wipe her face and fix her hair
Speaker 2: and like that is all Paula stuff.
Speaker 3: And the acting's insane.
Speaker 2: This is like such a professional actress and composed crying
Speaker 2: in character, so masterful, and the doctor looks pissed.
Speaker 3: Like how dare you betray me? Look?
Speaker 2: And then they both carried her to the car to leave,
Speaker 2: and he told her, like go put her somewhere so
Speaker 2: it looks like she was homeless, and she did do it.
Speaker 2: She made her as comfortable as possible. But she is
Speaker 2: part of it. And I hope she serves some jail time.
Speaker 1: I hope she doesn't go free, like maybe a reduced sentence,
Speaker 1: but like I am not on her side.
Speaker 2: And then the doctor stands up and says, why are
Speaker 2: you doing this? Why are you betraying me? And Petrovsky
Speaker 2: of course not happy with it. Judge Petrovsky does not
Speaker 2: like it, and she goes an out of order and
Speaker 2: then the psychoasis goes the line of the century.
Speaker 3: This whole trial is out of order.
Speaker 2: And then Benson and Stablers stand watching as everything happens,
Speaker 2: and Benson has the largest collared shirt I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life, Like, you can go hang gliding with
Speaker 2: these collars, jump off the fucking green canyon. They like
Speaker 2: giant collars. And you know, he's being pulled away while
Speaker 2: talking about the future of science and cloning and future
Speaker 2: and that's that, and we're done, and I'm fucking done.
Speaker 3: Here are sponsors. Okay, thank you, Lee's.
Speaker 1: I never got to thank you for all the hard
Speaker 1: work you did recapping before we went to break. That
Speaker 1: was an intense long episode with a lot of twists,
Speaker 1: and you did a great job, sir, baying us through
Speaker 1: all of that nonsense with cloning. Now, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be sort of a potpourri of cases because this episode's
Speaker 1: listed all over the internet as having several different inspirations
Speaker 1: of crimes and people and situations. So I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: do sort of quick recaps of all of them. So
Speaker 1: the first one I think that's pretty similar is the
Speaker 1: case of Lisa McPherson now Lisa McPherson was a thirty
Speaker 1: six year old woman who died in nineteen ninety four
Speaker 1: in the care of the Church of Scientology. I am
Speaker 1: nervous to even talk about the Church of Scientology on
Speaker 1: this podcast. I feel like I am obsessed with Scientology.
Speaker 1: I've read the book, I've watched the Leah Remini, I've
Speaker 1: watched the doc on HBO, Like I'm upset. But when
Speaker 1: I talk about it in LA I'm like an old
Speaker 1: lady talking about cancer. I'm like, did you know Scientology?
Speaker 1: Like I'm very like I can't. I always think someone
Speaker 1: behind me in a store is gonna hear me talking
Speaker 1: about Scientology and like ruin my chances of ever like
Speaker 1: working in this town again, Like it's it's crazy. I'm
Speaker 1: being I'm mostly joking, but they do have, you know,
Speaker 1: very retaliatory ways. Anyway, the case of Lisa McPherson is
Speaker 1: a real blight on the history of the Church of Scientology.
Speaker 1: Her case is extremely sketchy, as is so much with Scientology.
Speaker 1: This is a woman who was allegedly going through some
Speaker 1: mental health issues and then she got into a minor
Speaker 1: car accident and right after the car accident, she had
Speaker 1: some erratic behavior, like she started to take her clothes off,
Speaker 1: and they were like, let's bring her in for some
Speaker 1: psychiatric testing, like the ambulance people at the scene and everything,
Speaker 1: And then she later said that the reason she took
Speaker 1: her clothes off was because she wanted to get evaluated
Speaker 1: for psych testing. And then we all know that psychology
Speaker 1: and not psychology, but psychiatry is like a full no
Speaker 1: no in scientology. So she was like immediately checked out
Speaker 1: by fellow scientologists and she was taken to Fort Harrison
Speaker 1: Hotel also known as flag Land Base, where she was
Speaker 1: cared for by members of the church's Flag Service organization
Speaker 1: also called Fso, I don't know, I can't get into
Speaker 1: all of the levels of scientology on this, it would
Speaker 1: take forever. So according to scientology, she was brought to
Speaker 1: Fort Harrison Hotel for quote unquote rest and relaxation, but
Speaker 1: others claimed that she was brought there for an introspection rundown,
Speaker 1: which I think is like their versions of like psychiatric
Speaker 1: testing where they go.
Speaker 2: So she tried to get a psychiatric exam, and somehow
Speaker 2: the scientologists found out she was being held and went
Speaker 2: and grabbed her and took her out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when they took her out, she was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want that. I don't want any psychiatry, like
Speaker 1: I think. Once she was confronted with members of the church,
Speaker 1: she was like, I don't want this and left of
Speaker 1: her own accord. So she was at this hotel under
Speaker 1: and this is in Clearwater, Florida, which is like a
Speaker 1: huge Scientology.
Speaker 3: It's like their their main base, and LA is the
Speaker 3: main base.
Speaker 1: No. LA is like big for the associate for the
Speaker 1: celebrity center, and like a big recruiting center and where
Speaker 1: they do all of their like propaganda, like they have
Speaker 1: movie studios here. But Clearwater, Florida has always been like
Speaker 1: where the main shit is.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this castle, this Lavender Castle, is huge. Oh,
Speaker 2: I mean it's the place to be.
Speaker 1: They have like our land barons the Church of Scientology,
Speaker 1: like they have so much property, and in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: they have like expensive ass property. Like I mean, we
Speaker 1: could do a whole nother fucking episode on Scientology, but
Speaker 1: maybe for a future Patreon that doesn't exist. So according
Speaker 1: to uh the Scientologist, she was under twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: Watch her status was logged. There were all these care
Speaker 1: logs for her, and they say that she was inc
Speaker 1: parent and sometimes violent, that her nails, they cut her
Speaker 1: nails so that she would scratch herself, that she had
Speaker 1: bruised fists and feet while she was hitting a wall.
Speaker 1: One church person said that she looked like she had measles,
Speaker 1: Like she looked like she had measles or chicken pox
Speaker 1: on her face. So this woman was not well and
Speaker 1: should not have been being cared for by like a
Speaker 1: religious organization. She refused food. It's a little bit different
Speaker 1: from this story of Samantha. Obviously, Samantha is refusing food,
Speaker 1: but it's she is refusing food according to them, though
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe that's not what's happening. They said she
Speaker 1: was refusing protein shakes and that they would attempt to
Speaker 1: force feed her but she would spit it out. And
Speaker 1: it was noted that she was very weak and not
Speaker 1: standing up or some days moving at all. So this
Speaker 1: is like similar to what's happening to Samantha. And what
Speaker 1: I read was that some scientologists who questioned this were
Speaker 1: basically told.
Speaker 3: To like mind their own fucking business.
Speaker 1: Obviously, so when they saw that she was doing really badly.
Speaker 1: This scientilicology doctor named Minkoff was called and he insisted
Speaker 1: that he see McPherson, even though he was forty five
Speaker 1: minutes away from Clearwater. So they start taking her to
Speaker 1: Minkoff's hospital, and Janis Johnson, who was a medical officer
Speaker 1: at the Fort Harrison Hotel who was assigned to McPherson,
Speaker 1: she said that the whole ride, Lisa is gasping and
Speaker 1: having labored breathing, and they passed four fucking hospitals on
Speaker 1: the way to this other guy's hospital. But they had
Speaker 1: to go to the Scientology hospital and when they got there,
Speaker 1: she had no vital signs. She was essentially dead when
Speaker 1: they got to his hospital, so they attempted to resuscitate
Speaker 1: her for twenty minutes and then they declared her dead. So,
Speaker 1: with a similar situation to what happened in the episode,
Speaker 1: she had basically gone five to ten days without fluid,
Speaker 1: She was underweight, and she had cockroach bites all over
Speaker 1: her body and was comatose for twenty four to forty
Speaker 1: eight hours before she died, is what reports later said.
Speaker 1: The first Corners report listed her cause of death as undetermined,
Speaker 1: but the church told her family she had died of
Speaker 1: menenjoitus in a blood clot then Lisa, you'll you'll love
Speaker 1: slash hate this Scientology brought in their own pathologists, including
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Baden, and he concluded that she had died
Speaker 1: suddenly and unpredictably of a blood clot in her left
Speaker 1: lung that had originated from a knee bruise she suffered
Speaker 1: in a minor car accident seventeen days earlier.
Speaker 3: I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I have a giant bruise on my knee right now,
Speaker 1: so this is stressing me out.
Speaker 3: Listen, are you moving? Are you sitting up right now?
Speaker 1: If you have a bruise and you stay sedentary, I
Speaker 1: think that can become a clot or or an embolism
Speaker 1: that moves up into your body and hurts you.
Speaker 3: Sorry to make it, no, it's okay.
Speaker 1: The problem was this woman was like Samantha. She was
Speaker 1: either tied down or so weak that she couldn't move.
Speaker 2: It also makes me feel better that not actually than
Speaker 2: not at all. But the fact that it had the
Speaker 2: cocker thing happened and they took it from this case
Speaker 2: is better to me than the people are so unhinged
Speaker 2: that the writing came up with it, like to come
Speaker 2: up with seditary cockroach bites fictionally is more fucked up
Speaker 2: than taking it from real life, even though I wish
Speaker 2: it never happened or has been utter you.
Speaker 3: Know, urse I know, but I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1: So then then essentially there was a second coroner's report
Speaker 1: that went along with all this. Like I like to
Speaker 1: think doctor Michael Batten is like unimpeachable, but I just
Speaker 1: think scientology has so much power and so much money,
Speaker 1: Like how could this woman's like condition not be How
Speaker 1: could it just be this embolism and not related to
Speaker 1: the fact that she wasn't drinking or eating. I guess
Speaker 1: it's possible she refused all that stuff herself.
Speaker 2: But she also wasn't she was just trying to go
Speaker 2: to the psychiatrist. She wasn't trying to go against the
Speaker 2: church or was that such a big.
Speaker 1: You're really not allowed to do that. But she was
Speaker 1: having a mental health episode, so I'm sure she just
Speaker 1: wanted like some kind of help, and the Church of
Speaker 1: Scientology is like, we know how to get we know
Speaker 1: how to do this, and they think that they were
Speaker 1: giving her like introspection rundowns and probably trying to make her,
Speaker 1: you know, just like talk it out, but like there
Speaker 1: comes to a point where talk therapy is obviously not enough.
Speaker 1: So that is I think who A lot of the
Speaker 1: Samantha Tassler was based on doctor Garrett Lang or doctor
Speaker 1: Ashton Lang as we've been calling him in this episode,
Speaker 1: Baby Ashton. He is based on a couple of different things,
Speaker 1: we think. So the Rillyan cult is a it's wild.
Speaker 1: It's called an international UFO religion. So it's founded by
Speaker 1: a guy who calls himself Ryel whose name is Claude Vorilhan,
Speaker 1: and he's a i think a Frenchman, the founder and
Speaker 1: current leader of the Rileyan movement. So the dogma behind
Speaker 1: the Rileyan movement, or the Raellian cult as it's called,
Speaker 1: is that there is no God, only Eloheim and Elohim,
Speaker 1: which sounds like a Hebrew word to me, is a
Speaker 1: group of extraterrestrial scientists who intelligently designed the human race.
Speaker 1: So they think there's all these old aliens in the
Speaker 1: sky that made us, made the earth, and the human race.
Speaker 3: How we are.
Speaker 1: The Rillyan human cloning organization is called Clone AID and
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, ry Alliens I'm saying I'm
Speaker 1: probably saying it wrong. Ryellians Rallians is gonna come after us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I say something.
Speaker 3: I was reading it all I was reading on the internet.
Speaker 1: They had between fifty thousand and one hundred thousand followers worldwide.
Speaker 3: We're not huge, but we could have a Rillian listener.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: And this is honestly, I have the biggest smile on
Speaker 2: my face. This is the funniest thing we've ever covered. Like,
Speaker 2: I do love this UFO cult a lot. I hope
Speaker 2: they I mean, maybe they do bad things. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I love the idea of them.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: He In two thousand and two, the Rye Alliens claimed
Speaker 1: that they had cloned the first human baby named eve.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: That caused it international media stir. Obviously it was not real.
Speaker 1: Ryle believes that humanity is slowly transitioning into a society
Speaker 1: where humans will not need to work or have jobs.
Speaker 3: Because of that, Yeah, yeah, I thought maybe you would
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Actually, he wrote a book in two thousand and one
Speaker 1: called Yes to Human Cloning. He thought that we could
Speaker 1: do like human genetic engineering to avoid and like get
Speaker 1: rid of genetically inherited diseases, which I'm sure people are
Speaker 1: researching constantly, but there aren't like aliens in the sky
Speaker 1: that are going to help you with doing that, and so.
Speaker 3: No matter how hard we wish there were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And apparently in general, Rileyanism is widely mocked and
Speaker 1: thought to be pretty looney tunes, like on the internet
Speaker 1: and across the board like where people are even like
Speaker 1: religious scholars were like okay, like I mean it's a
Speaker 1: UFO religion, like so a little.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but how is scientology any more grounded in anything
Speaker 2: real than us?
Speaker 1: You know, scientology has a lot of the same. I
Speaker 1: mean when I make fun of Scientology to my husband,
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, but how is that different from Judaism
Speaker 1: or Christianity or a lot of religions. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: my problem with scientology is how they take all of
Speaker 1: your money and they excommunicate you from your family, Like
Speaker 1: how you just have to like ditch your family if
Speaker 1: they like you can be Catholic and be married to
Speaker 1: a Jew, you know what I mean, Like, no religion
Speaker 1: cares about that really, like Scientology cares deeply. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know Jews preferre Jews marry other Jews, but you
Speaker 1: know here, I am married to a Pentecostal. Anyway, the
Speaker 1: second man that little Ashton baby is related to is
Speaker 1: or is inspired by, is this former doctor named Cecil
Speaker 1: Jacobson who was a fertility doctor who used his own
Speaker 1: sperm to impregnate patients without informing them. A wild thing
Speaker 1: about him is that he was credited with being one
Speaker 1: of the first doctors in the United States to introduce amniocentisis,
Speaker 1: which is like currently used. I think I had an
Speaker 1: amnio on that my last baby. That's the test where
Speaker 1: you know, the baby is in a sac surrounded with fluid,
Speaker 1: and the amniocentesis kind of just like pulls some of
Speaker 1: that fluid out to just test it for birth defects.
Speaker 3: It's controversial. A lot of people don't do it.
Speaker 1: I did not do it for rosy because I was
Speaker 1: told I didn't really need to because it can cause
Speaker 1: a miscarriage or a problem with the baby. So not
Speaker 1: everybody does amniocentesis, and I totally get that, but it's
Speaker 1: a way to test for specific diseases. What this guy
Speaker 1: would do is he would inject patients with hCG, which
Speaker 1: is human choreyonic gonadoptrepin gonad otrepin Okay, before and after.
Speaker 3: He would do it before.
Speaker 1: They conceived, and then this is basically the hormone that
Speaker 1: is common in pregnancy. This is what a pregnancy test
Speaker 1: is testing for, and it's also used in fertility treatments
Speaker 1: as well. So the pregnancies would progress normally and then
Speaker 1: they would take pregnancy tests and be positive, and the
Speaker 1: patient's bodies would begin to feel changes, and then he'd
Speaker 1: perform an ultrasound and he'd be like, oh, here's the
Speaker 1: fetus in this grainy image. And then around the third
Speaker 1: month he would tell them, oh, your fetus has died.
Speaker 1: And these patients were never really pregnant. Their body was
Speaker 1: changing in reaction to the hCG he was giving them.
Speaker 1: And of course the positive pregnancy tests were positive because
Speaker 1: those tests are looking for hCG and that's what he's
Speaker 1: injecting them with. So in nineteen eighty nine, some suspicious
Speaker 1: former patients told a local television station about this guy
Speaker 1: and they started investigating him, and then he got sued
Speaker 1: by multiple patients. And then during the core and this
Speaker 1: was for the whole, This was for the whole, like
Speaker 1: sort of fake pregnancy scam, not even for his own sperm.
Speaker 1: Yet it was in that investigation that that came to light.
Speaker 1: They noticed that some patients had been arranged to be
Speaker 1: artificially inseminated with donor sperm, and it was all anonymous.
Speaker 1: Only Jacobson would know who these people were, these donors,
Speaker 1: and like to preserve their anonymity, he said. And then
Speaker 1: the investigation found that there was no donor program.
Speaker 3: It did not exist.
Speaker 1: And some of Jacobson's patients who had been conceived through
Speaker 1: donor insemination agreed to have their you know, genes tested
Speaker 1: and their babies tested, and at least seven instances they
Speaker 1: found where Jacobsen was the father of the children, including
Speaker 1: one patient who was supposed to have been inseminated with
Speaker 1: her husband sperm. She wasn't there to get donor sperm,
Speaker 1: she was there to get her husband's sperm.
Speaker 3: So fucked up.
Speaker 1: So more DNA tests linked him to at least fifteen children,
Speaker 1: and it has been suspected that he fathered as many
Speaker 1: as seventy five children with his own sperm.
Speaker 2: So I don't understand how So some of the parents
Speaker 2: were lied to with grainy images and hormone therapy and
Speaker 2: it was like, haha, we took your money, and then
Speaker 2: some of the people fully were given his sperm and habit.
Speaker 1: I think maybe that's how it progressed, Like maybe he
Speaker 1: started out the first and then he started being like, wow,
Speaker 1: these people really like when you when he gives his
Speaker 1: side of it, he thinks he did nothing wrong. He
Speaker 1: was like, they wanted babies, they were having trouble. I
Speaker 1: gave them babies. When you ask him about what happened
Speaker 1: with these fake pregnancy things, He's like, no, I thought
Speaker 1: they were pregnant. It's like, you know how the science works,
Speaker 1: like you can see on a on a ultrasound if
Speaker 1: that's a fetus. And they later said that the fetuses
Speaker 1: that he would show were fecal matter or other organs.
Speaker 1: Like he'd be like, there it is. And I'll tell
Speaker 1: you something. I've seen two of my babies up on
Speaker 1: those screens. I cannot see shit. Like people go, there's
Speaker 1: the arm, do you see the spine? I go, nope,
Speaker 1: I don't see any of it. Like my eyes cannot
Speaker 1: adjust to those fucking images. I like could not until
Speaker 1: the baby's like eight months old and it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: there's the head whatever. I could not see any of
Speaker 1: those little swirls of a baby, so I could see
Speaker 1: why people would be like, oh, yep, that's our little angel,
Speaker 1: and it's just not it's a swirl on a ultrasound,
Speaker 1: so pretty fucked up. A federal jury convicted him on
Speaker 1: fifty two counts of fraud and perjury for artificially inseminating
Speaker 1: patients without their knowledge and for telling them they were
Speaker 1: pregnant when they were not. And when I read an
Speaker 1: article from when he was found guilty but not sentenced,
Speaker 1: they said he could be sentenced up to two hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty years in prison and find up to five
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: But of course he got five years. That's the end
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 1: This guy got five years, and I think that's pretty nuts.
Speaker 1: And he of course moved to Utah after that, and
Speaker 1: he lost his medical license, so he's obviously not practicing
Speaker 1: medicine any longer and is probably on a do not
Speaker 1: practice list in every state.
Speaker 3: I wonder what he's doing in Utah.
Speaker 1: I heard he was doing agricultural research or something like that.
Speaker 1: There was something that I read about that, but it
Speaker 1: was not related to.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if someone like that becomes like the
Speaker 2: John Stamos character and becomes a reproductive abuser in their
Speaker 2: personal life when they can't do it professionally.
Speaker 3: He had eight I think he had eight children with
Speaker 3: his actual wife.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I bet he's still doing some illegal, nefarious shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The final case that I was going to talk about today,
Speaker 1: So a lot of what I found on the internet
Speaker 1: said that this episode was linked to the kidnapping of
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart. And I do get the timing of that,
Speaker 1: because she was found in two thousand and three. That's
Speaker 1: when this episode came out. Like that's undeniable.
Speaker 3: It seems to.
Speaker 1: Me that the only similarity was just them finding Jessica
Speaker 1: and being like, wait, we know her, She's that missing girl.
Speaker 1: That kind of seems like the only similarity because it's
Speaker 1: really they're really not that linked otherwise. But I'm going
Speaker 1: to just tell you about Elizabeth Smart anyway, just because
Speaker 1: it's interesting and there are no other s few episodes
Speaker 1: based on Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to talk about this real quick with
Speaker 3: you now.
Speaker 1: Jam packed episode for find Out for our little stories,
Speaker 1: but I'm trying to keep them short so it's not
Speaker 1: like too crazy, and the honestly, the Elizabeth Smart case,
Speaker 1: I think was so publicized because she was this like beautiful,
Speaker 1: blonde haired, blue eyed girl that went missing, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't like there's just not as much information. It's pretty
Speaker 1: cut and dry, is all I'm saying. So essentially, Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Smart was fourteen years old when she was sleeping in
Speaker 1: bed in a room she shared with her little sister.
Speaker 1: She was kidnapped at knife point. This is in Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City and this was in June of two thousand
Speaker 1: and two. So her kidnapper was Brian David Mitchell and
Speaker 1: his wife Wanda Barzie, and they held Elizabeth for nine months.
Speaker 1: I think in on my mind she was being she
Speaker 1: was held for years, but she was I think I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of J. C. Duggart who was held for eighteen years.
Speaker 1: This girl was held for nine months. Jac is eighteen
Speaker 1: years eighteen. She was taken when she was like eleven,
Speaker 1: and I believe she was found when she was like thirty.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he went into her room, he took her
Speaker 1: at knife point. The sister did wake up, but pretended
Speaker 1: to be a s and then the sister tried to
Speaker 1: actually come out and tell the parents, but when she
Speaker 1: opened the door, she saw the kidnapper and her sister
Speaker 1: in the hallway. So she went back into her bed
Speaker 1: for like two hours terrified, and then finally went out
Speaker 1: and told her parents what happened. Brian David Mitchell, the
Speaker 1: guy who kidnapped her, also went by Emmanuel because obviously
Speaker 1: he's a religious nut and he claimed to be a
Speaker 1: religious preacher. And he held Elizabeth at a camp in
Speaker 1: the woods with his wife, where he repeatedly raped her,
Speaker 1: starved her, forced her to drink alcohol and watch pornography,
Speaker 1: and basically as soon as she got there, he quote
Speaker 1: unquote married her in a ceremony performed by his wife.
Speaker 1: So she recognized Mitchell as Emmanuel because he was a
Speaker 1: panhandler her mother had given money to and had offered
Speaker 1: him to come to their house and work on their roof.
Speaker 3: Help work on their roof.
Speaker 1: So an act of kindness from Elizabeth Smart's mother turned
Speaker 1: into this nightmare where her daughter was kidnapped by this man.
Speaker 1: During her captivity, she was forced to take on a
Speaker 1: new name, and she chose Esther from the Old Testament,
Speaker 1: my grandmother's name, and also we know Book of esther
Speaker 1: very religious name. She would accompany Mitchell and Barzi in
Speaker 1: public on various occasions, and she would be head to
Speaker 1: toe in white robes. Like there are photos that came
Speaker 1: out later where she went unrecognized because she was wearing
Speaker 1: a veil. She was wearing full garb, like, no one
Speaker 1: recognized her. About six weeks after her abduction. I never
Speaker 1: knew about this. Mitchell and Barzie actually tried to kidnap
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's cousin to make her an additional bride, and they
Speaker 1: didn't succeed, but the family did find a cutout screen.
Speaker 3: How did they know about the cousin?
Speaker 1: He knew he must have known this family because he
Speaker 1: was there for a few months working on their roof,
Speaker 1: So he probably saw Elizabeth one time, then saw the
Speaker 1: other another girl who was like around the same age.
Speaker 1: And he's looking for brides. He's looking for young brides,
Speaker 1: you know, but not so I don't know, sir, it's weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well the sister was only like nine, maybe, like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, maybe that was too young for him,
Speaker 1: Like maybe he wanted them to have his babies. And
Speaker 1: if you're not menstruating yet, like I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: like I really don't know, but he wanted this specific
Speaker 1: age bride, and I think, yeah, I think Elizabeth had
Speaker 1: other siblings, but he went after her specifically. So there
Speaker 1: was one week in her captivity where Mitchell went to
Speaker 1: jail and her and Elizabeth Smart and Barzie just went
Speaker 1: a week without food and we're like, like so weak
Speaker 1: they could barely walk to the bucket that they used
Speaker 1: like as a toilet. So things were not good out
Speaker 1: in the woods. Then three months after her abduction, the
Speaker 1: little sister suddenly remembers the roofer who had worked on
Speaker 1: their house and is like, that's the voice I heard,
Speaker 1: Like when she heard the voice in the bedroom, she
Speaker 1: knew it was familiar, but she couldn't place it. So
Speaker 1: three months later she has this memory and remembers the
Speaker 1: roofer and you know obviously tells the parents and tells
Speaker 1: the family, the Smart family, and they go to the police,
Speaker 1: and the Smart family had to fight with the police
Speaker 1: to release the sketch of Emmanuel, and the police like
Speaker 1: tried to downplay like the sketch, like, oh, it's not
Speaker 1: going to find him. Whatever, it found him, Like the
Speaker 1: family knew Mitchell's step son saw the sketch of him
Speaker 1: on America's Most Wanted and identified him, So then now
Speaker 1: they're looking for him.
Speaker 3: So now they're trying to find him.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Mitchell has maybe trying to move the family the
Speaker 1: quote the family to another city like New York or Boston.
Speaker 1: But Elizabeth smart like very smartly revealed like, oh, she goes,
Speaker 1: I think God wants us to go back to Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City because at this point he kept her for
Speaker 1: a long time basically twenty miles from her family's house,
Speaker 1: which is so nuts, like so close in the woods.
Speaker 1: And then they moved to San Diego and they were
Speaker 1: there for a little while, and then Elizabeth somehow convinced
Speaker 1: him to go back to Salt City, which is great
Speaker 1: because probably more people know who she is out there,
Speaker 1: like can identify, you know. So he agrees with her, Yes,
Speaker 1: God probably does want that, and they hitchhike back to Utah.
Speaker 1: Then in March of two thousand and three, she and
Speaker 1: her captors are walking the streets of Sandy, Utah, which
Speaker 1: is just a few miles from Salt Lake City, and
Speaker 1: somebody recognizes that her and calls the police, and at
Speaker 1: first she's like, no, no, maybe that's a little bit
Speaker 1: too The what the episode is connected by because these
Speaker 1: girls are not there. She kind of Jessica sort of
Speaker 1: denied her identity and then pretty quickly was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to.
Speaker 3: Go home, you know.
Speaker 1: But Elizabeth Smart wasn't positive that this whole ordeal was over.
Speaker 1: You know, she's so traumatized, like she doesn't know, so
Speaker 1: she's like probably telling them her fake name and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and so I think her name was Augustine
Speaker 1: was another name that they gave her when they were
Speaker 1: in public, so I think she was reverting to that
Speaker 1: and then eventually taken to the police station, joyfully reunited
Speaker 1: with her family, and it's a happy ending, I mean
Speaker 1: to a point. She gets she's not dead, which I
Speaker 1: think is after most with the statistics about most abductions,
Speaker 1: is a good, good ending. Wanda Barzie, the wife, was
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen years in federal prison, which I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's enough for her role in the kidnapping,
Speaker 1: because Elizabeth Smart says that she's one of the most
Speaker 1: evil women she's ever met in her life, so she
Speaker 1: I don't know that she was just like a brainwashed
Speaker 1: like I'm just doing what my.
Speaker 3: Master tells me.
Speaker 1: But she got early released and was released in twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen and then with Mitchell getting his prison sentence and conviction,
Speaker 1: it was difficult because there was a lot of back
Speaker 1: and forth about his fitness to stand trial, whether he
Speaker 1: was going to be ruled confident or you know, we've
Speaker 1: talked about this in previous episodes. So Mitchell was diagnosed
Speaker 1: by forensic psychologist as having antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder,
Speaker 1: and the dispute over his confidence lasted eight years, and
Speaker 1: then in twenty ten because she was found in two
Speaker 1: thousand and three. In twenty ten, finally he was deemed
Speaker 1: mentally capable and he was sentenced to life in prison
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole in twenty eleven.
Speaker 3: And you know what's crazy is right after she.
Speaker 1: Was found, not right after, but you know, within a
Speaker 1: couple of years, she did her first interview with Katie Couric.
Speaker 1: I cannot find it anywhere. There's a transcript of it,
Speaker 1: but there's no video, Like I can't find the video.
Speaker 1: I don't know if NBC took it down or what,
Speaker 1: but like I could not find the video of the interview,
Speaker 1: and apparently it was a kind of a softball interview,
Speaker 1: like how are you what are you looking forward? To
Speaker 1: doing again now that you're back, Like she did not
Speaker 1: get into the nitty gritty of what happened to her
Speaker 1: while she was in captivity. And then actually Nancy Grace
Speaker 1: had her on to talk about Adam's Law, which is
Speaker 1: Adam Walsh, you know, the son of the guy who
Speaker 1: does America's Most Wanted who was killed. There was a
Speaker 1: law that I think I think George w Yeah, George w.
Speaker 1: Bush was signing in that she was went on Nancy
Speaker 1: Grace to support the law and talk about it, and
Speaker 1: she had asked for privacy. She said she didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about anything, and Nancy Grace still asked her
Speaker 1: questions because Nancy Grace is that bitch, and just asked
Speaker 1: her all this stuff and she just had to go,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm actually not here to talk about what
Speaker 1: happened to me. I'm here to support the bill and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And you know, she shut down Nancy Grace in that interview,
Speaker 2: I would say three to four times, and Nancy was
Speaker 2: relentless and would not stop, Like, I don't understand how
Speaker 2: you're this disrespectful of a young woman that like escaped
Speaker 2: such terror because it was her just being like I've
Speaker 2: told you to stop.
Speaker 3: Like she finally had to be like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to talk about what happened because
Speaker 2: they were like you were just walking on the oh.
Speaker 2: I remember Nancy Grace going so were you scared, and
Speaker 2: her going yeah, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, she is now like a very accomplished advocate for
Speaker 1: missing people and victims of sexualists.
Speaker 3: She's an author.
Speaker 1: I watched I did watch an interview with her and
Speaker 1: Anderson Cooper, but it's from twenty thirteen, so it's like
Speaker 1: ten years after the fact. She's older, she's more composed,
Speaker 1: she can talk about what happened to her. And it
Speaker 1: was when she decided to write her book, and she
Speaker 1: was obviously saying, like people disclosed to me constantly, Like
Speaker 1: people come up to me and just say, my dad
Speaker 1: tried to sell me so that he could pay mortgage
Speaker 1: on the house, like all kinds of horrible. And so
Speaker 1: she wanted to write a book and she wants to
Speaker 1: be outspoken so that she can just show people that
Speaker 1: like life can move on after you have a tragedy,
Speaker 1: like a trauma like this in your life, and you
Speaker 1: can it doesn't have to define you. And famously she
Speaker 1: was most recently on The Masked.
Speaker 3: Dancer as Miss moth Wow.
Speaker 1: She went on The mask Dancer and I read this
Speaker 1: interview with her where she was like, they were like,
Speaker 1: this isn't really something you've ever done before, and she
Speaker 1: was kind of like, you know, when I got offered this,
Speaker 1: I thought I couldn't believe it. And then my grandma
Speaker 1: had just passed away, and I sort of thought about
Speaker 1: her life and she had done a lot of serious things,
Speaker 1: but she had done a lot of fun things. And
Speaker 1: I kind of looked at my own life and I
Speaker 1: felt like my life has been very serious and very heavy,
Speaker 1: especially because she's now dedicated her life to this kind
Speaker 1: of you know, work, which is got to be pretty
Speaker 1: heavy sometimes, especially with your own story. And she was like,
Speaker 1: I just kind of want to do something fun and
Speaker 1: like let a little bit more light into my life.
Speaker 1: And so she went on the mast Answer to kind
Speaker 1: of Love. At first, when I heard that, I was
Speaker 1: like TV has hit a new low. But now that
Speaker 1: I hear her side, I'm like, oh, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and that's like cute.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Why not let someone dance on TV in an outfit? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And get her face out to more people that can
Speaker 1: learn about her work and her story.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like, it's so fucked. This
Speaker 3: is fucked. Thank you, Kara.
Speaker 1: So that's the combination of my mixed bag of crimes today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got a lot of scoop. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Hang on for our interview, guys, it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: good one. All right, everybody, Today's guest. If you were
Speaker 1: a kid in the nineties, there's a really good chance
Speaker 1: that you know and are obsessed with today's guest. She's
Speaker 1: a Disney Channel Original movie icon known for her roles
Speaker 1: in the first three Halloween, Town Movie and Quince And
Speaker 1: she also has appeared in tons of staple soaps like
Speaker 1: Guiding Light and General Hospital. But you guys know her
Speaker 1: today as Jessica Morse and we're so excited to share
Speaker 1: our convo with Kimberly J.
Speaker 3: Brown. Yeah, so it's an iconic one.
Speaker 2: The woman who plays like the teacher the main Why
Speaker 2: am I forgetting her name?
Speaker 3: It's just Sarry Barbara.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know with SVU, when you're someone like
Speaker 2: us that watches constantly, you're like, wait, I know this episode,
Speaker 2: what Wait, which one is it? And then you see her,
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, yes, this is insemination cult. So
Speaker 2: how does it feel to be in a cult episode?
Speaker 2: Were you a fan beforehand? How is audition like the
Speaker 2: beginnings of the episode?
Speaker 4: I honestly, I don't think I had seen a full
Speaker 4: episode before I did the show, But after I did
Speaker 4: the show, I have seen probably you know, a hundred
Speaker 4: at least now, Like it completely sucked me in and
Speaker 4: I was very generously offered the role, which doesn't have
Speaker 4: you know, is a very cool thing when it does
Speaker 4: happen in your career. So I didn't have a full
Speaker 4: audition process, but I was excited to do one of
Speaker 4: the you know, they were calling it, you know, the
Speaker 4: rip from the Headlines episode, sort of mirroring the whole
Speaker 4: Elizabeth Smart case, and so I was excited to just
Speaker 4: have it kind of I don't know, those episodes seem
Speaker 4: like they you know, they kind of took some aspects
Speaker 4: of real life and then did their own twist on them,
Speaker 4: and so I was excited to be a part of
Speaker 4: that kind of storyline.
Speaker 2: Did you do research on cults, brainwashing, kidnapping Elizabeth Smart?
Speaker 2: Did you prep in any sort of way to play
Speaker 2: someone that it's been brainwashed.
Speaker 4: I was familiar with the Elizabeth Smart story and kind
Speaker 4: of looked it up again, but I didn't want to
Speaker 4: get too heavy into her story because I knew they
Speaker 4: were also doing their own thing with it, and other
Speaker 4: than that, I did not. I can't say I looked
Speaker 4: up brainwashing. No, but it was.
Speaker 2: While we were planning questions. I looked at Kara and
Speaker 2: was like, did you research cults? And she started answering it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, not you, We're going to ask,
Speaker 2: but I guess no one's researching car.
Speaker 1: I started to be like, well, yeah, I mean I've
Speaker 1: done a lot of research off cult.
Speaker 4: Yeah, short, short, yeah.
Speaker 1: So you looking at you, our listeners can't see you,
Speaker 1: but you have dark hair. You are a blonde in
Speaker 1: this episode? Or is that a wig?
Speaker 3: Were you? Did you used to be a blonde? Did
Speaker 3: they make you dye your hair? What's the story?
Speaker 4: I went through a blonde Actually, I don't want I
Speaker 4: was going to say a blonde phase, but it wasn't.
Speaker 4: I think it was after I did a movie called
Speaker 4: Bringing Down the House where I played Steve Martin and
Speaker 4: Jean Smart's daughter, and so I had lightened my hair
Speaker 4: for that movie, and so I kind of kept it
Speaker 4: up for I think a couple of years after doing
Speaker 4: that movie, so this was still when I was keeping
Speaker 4: up the blonde. And they loved that because they asked
Speaker 4: for some old photos of me, you know, to use
Speaker 4: throughout the episode, and a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 4: I had was me in my naturally dark hair, so
Speaker 4: they that was kind of they just loved that aspect
Speaker 4: that it was we got to kind of use the
Speaker 4: different hair color as far as you know, towards the
Speaker 4: whole disappearance and everything in the episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the change of personality and hair color.
Speaker 2: Well hair to go into the makeup hair wardrobe world.
Speaker 3: You had great outerwear.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is too specific of a
Speaker 2: question for something that happened twelve years ago, but.
Speaker 4: Possibly let's try so.
Speaker 2: You just had such good peak coats and there was
Speaker 2: like a Swede tan collar jacket. Do you remember working
Speaker 2: with wardrobe or that, you know, the Infinity necklace is
Speaker 2: pretty iconic.
Speaker 4: I did love that necklace. I remember than being very
Speaker 4: specific obviously about the necklace, but about her wearing things
Speaker 4: that didn't either didn't quite fit or you know, were
Speaker 4: a little bit not along the lines of you know,
Speaker 4: what teens in that age range were wearing that day,
Speaker 4: and they did want to kind of set her apart
Speaker 4: with the clothing. And I do remember that coat. I
Speaker 4: remember loving that coat because it was cold in New
Speaker 4: York City when we were filming and I had to do,
Speaker 4: you know, walking down the street of the Brownstones and
Speaker 4: like just yeah, the loving that coat. I should have
Speaker 4: tried to take it off, but yes, I tried with
Speaker 4: the other one, the coat that I wore in the
Speaker 4: backyard scene with Chris Maloney like that. I think it
Speaker 4: was somebody I don't remember, but I yeah, I made
Speaker 4: an attempt to buy that coat.
Speaker 3: Off of them.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Maloney, you have a lot of intense moments
Speaker 1: with him in this episode, did you guys connect or
Speaker 1: I mean, what's was it hard to focus because he's
Speaker 1: so hot or like what?
Speaker 4: He was fantastic? I mean everybody in the whole cast was,
Speaker 4: but it it was fun to kind of play off
Speaker 4: of that. He has such an intense energy when he's
Speaker 4: playing Stabler, and I think it was fun to I
Speaker 4: definitely used that in the role. But I just loved
Speaker 4: how he was so intense but then also just brought
Speaker 4: that warmth thin to really, you know, kind of make anybody.
Speaker 4: He was questioning his friend in that moment, and so
Speaker 4: it was a nice dynamic to kind of play off
Speaker 4: of because I was so you know, not experienced with
Speaker 4: with talking to people like him for years, and I
Speaker 4: kind of I used that dynamic a lot. But he
Speaker 4: was He was just so great to work with.
Speaker 3: That's nice to hear.
Speaker 1: We've mostly heard that about him, But everybody usually gushes
Speaker 1: about Mariushka any any guy, and I.
Speaker 4: Will add to the gushing. She was so kind and
Speaker 4: just I didn't. She is sort of the epitome I
Speaker 4: think of the kind of character like I admire her
Speaker 4: in that role so much, Like that is the kind
Speaker 4: of role in character that I think would be so
Speaker 4: fun to play for years and years, Like it doesn't
Speaker 4: surprise me that the show is so successful and she
Speaker 4: just continues to kick ass in it, because she's just
Speaker 4: she's just a kick ass person. But we did we
Speaker 4: had somebody in common in the sense when I first
Speaker 4: met her that her now a husband, Peter Herman. I
Speaker 4: think they hadn't quite gotten married at the time, but
Speaker 4: Peter and I worked together on a soap opera called
Speaker 4: Guiding Light years ago it's not on the air anymore.
Speaker 4: So yeah, So I had seen that they were together,
Speaker 4: and I didn't I didn't realize initially that he was
Speaker 4: also in the episode. So we kind of bonded over
Speaker 4: that initially that I was like, well tell him, Mara
Speaker 4: says hi, because he played the doctor that cloned my
Speaker 4: mother on the soap opera, and we went into the
Speaker 4: whole storyline. So and then later we ended up, you know,
Speaker 4: actually seeing each other and working together. But that was cool,
Speaker 4: and she was I think I don't remember how many
Speaker 4: years later it was, but I actually sent her a note.
Speaker 4: I think it was through her website because I think
Speaker 4: it was before you know, Instagram and all that, but
Speaker 4: just saying hi, and you know how much fun I
Speaker 4: had working on the episode and all that, and how
Speaker 4: I was then addicted to the show. And she wrote
Speaker 4: me back and said hi, and just wrote me the
Speaker 4: sweetest note, and I think ended it with, you know,
Speaker 4: something like be careful, you know, make sure you continue
Speaker 4: to go outside, like you know, don't stay in all
Speaker 4: the time like you know. But it was in She's
Speaker 4: just very very down to earth and fun like that.
Speaker 3: Did you sense their love connection on set?
Speaker 4: They were definitely. They're definitely very bonded and worked together
Speaker 4: very well, and there's a I really could tell there
Speaker 4: was such a collaborative just a collaborative sense among all
Speaker 4: of them, and in the way that they worked with
Speaker 4: the producer and the director on set, but also you know,
Speaker 4: the producers that weren't there, and there was always like
Speaker 4: calls made to them and kind of discussing certain dialogue
Speaker 4: and things that were happening in the episode. And I
Speaker 4: thought it was really cool that they all had that
Speaker 4: camaraderie and sort of back and forth as far as
Speaker 4: like kind of you know, they the actors were kind
Speaker 4: of you know, able to collaborate with what was going
Speaker 4: on in the episode, and I admired that, Hell yeah.
Speaker 3: You also got a courtroom scene. I didn't know how
Speaker 3: was that a blast?
Speaker 4: Because they were like, well, we're on the you know,
Speaker 4: this is the this is the law and order set,
Speaker 4: you know, so there was a lot of care throughout
Speaker 4: all of the shooting and everything to not mess up
Speaker 4: anything that was you know, pre set in the way
Speaker 4: that that cast and crew and everything that had everything
Speaker 4: set up. But as an actor, I have always I
Speaker 4: love courtroom shows. I love like and I've always wanted
Speaker 4: to play a lawyer, which I haven't yet, I've gotten
Speaker 4: very close. So for me being able to be on
Speaker 4: the witness stand and be interrogated so hard was awesome.
Speaker 4: It was like a little actor's like a you know,
Speaker 4: one of those like a bucketless things you want to do,
Speaker 4: I guess, and it was. It was also intense because
Speaker 4: it's you know, I had Stephanie March coming at me
Speaker 4: for a little while, and then Laura Elena Herring came
Speaker 4: at me, who was so stern through the episode. But
Speaker 4: we I think that was the first day we met,
Speaker 4: and she just came at I think we had to
Speaker 4: do our stuff first, she came at me, and then
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't remember how it happened, but
Speaker 4: I ended up one of us ended up cracking a
Speaker 4: joke and then we just we clicked and we just
Speaker 4: ended up goofing around with each other for the rest
Speaker 4: of the time we were working together, which was so
Speaker 4: obviously the opposite of our characters. But I loved all
Speaker 4: of it, and I loved kind of just really soaking
Speaker 4: into that, you know, just the whole breakdown on the stand.
Speaker 4: It was kind of a I didn't realize at the time,
Speaker 4: kind of like one of those classic moments and it
Speaker 4: just uh and man, they moved that camera in right
Speaker 4: in on your face and they get right all in there,
Speaker 4: you know, and it comes across sounds great, It's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: What kind of lawyer?
Speaker 2: Defense, prosecution, good guys, slimy bad?
Speaker 4: I think I think defense. I think I think it's
Speaker 4: one of my other favorite roles in shows. Ever is
Speaker 4: the good Wife, and I watching Juliana Margully is like,
Speaker 4: that was just such an amazing role. But I think
Speaker 4: it's fun to kind of show the human side of
Speaker 4: that kind of job and who you're representing and all
Speaker 4: that kind of stuff, to kind of show, you know,
Speaker 4: the behind the scenes aspect of what I imagine that
Speaker 4: life to be. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, seems terrible in real life seems it seems.
Speaker 4: Very stressful, very stressful, and I there's no absolutely no way.
Speaker 4: I have way too much anxiety to the lawyer. But
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's so fun to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean on TV they wrap up the case
Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes. Yeah, So, how was working with Barbara Barry?
Speaker 3: We brought her before. She's like, so she's worked since
Speaker 3: the fifties.
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys seem like you had a in
Speaker 1: that scene at the end, like you seem very connected.
Speaker 4: And we were. She was so sweet. We had met
Speaker 4: I think at the Independent Spirit Awards a few years prior.
Speaker 4: I think she was We were both there, I think
Speaker 4: the year that I had won and she was nominated
Speaker 4: or something. I can't remember, but we we talked about
Speaker 4: that and she just was such a warm, sweet lady.
Speaker 4: I mean, and I think it's evident in the role,
Speaker 4: but also yeah, in that moment between us, like at
Speaker 4: the end, I think that was an important just an
Speaker 4: important thing to show and oh gosh, yeah, she just
Speaker 4: would always just come up and hug me and hold
Speaker 4: my face in her hands, and it was just, you know,
Speaker 4: it was so sweet.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2: I love the nostalgia and everything is coming back and
Speaker 2: Halloween Town has made so many people happy for decades.
Speaker 2: How does it feel to be in a hit cult
Speaker 2: classic holiday sensation?
Speaker 3: Yeah, moving from one cult to another, Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 4: Perfect segue there. It's incredible. It still blows my mind
Speaker 4: that the movies are still talked about and people watch them,
Speaker 4: and I mean I get approached almost daily on the
Speaker 4: street of people just being fans of the movies and
Speaker 4: sharing stories of what it meant to them growing up
Speaker 4: and how they show it to their kids now. And
Speaker 4: I have young nephews and my friends young kids that
Speaker 4: watch it now, and it's just amazing. It's had a
Speaker 4: whole other life. And I couldn't couldn't be more honored.
Speaker 4: You know, As an actor, you just you hope somebody
Speaker 4: sees something that you do. But the fact that it's
Speaker 4: been able to live on like this is just it's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just the Disney movies I was I was telling Kara,
Speaker 2: I was more of I liked the Quins.
Speaker 3: That's the one that I was watching a lot.
Speaker 4: I love, I love. I've never been able, I think,
Speaker 4: to do a movie since then where you get to
Speaker 4: break the fourth wall like that and like talk to
Speaker 4: the camera and narrate the whole movie. That was just
Speaker 4: it's rare and that was just such a fun aspect
Speaker 4: of that. And I and I loved all the babies.
Speaker 4: And actually my brother Dylan, my real brother Dylan is
Speaker 4: was one of the babies, like towards the end of
Speaker 4: the movie, he's.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's in his early twenties now, so there's a
Speaker 4: little there's a little time perspective. But yeah, he's in
Speaker 4: the movie, and so it's a fun little little person.
Speaker 1: I was reading they had to use like twenty babies
Speaker 1: for that movie.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, they had like baby can't work that long. Yes,
Speaker 4: they can only work for like fifteen twenty minutes at
Speaker 4: a time, and so yeah, you would kind of we
Speaker 4: would rehearse with dolls up until the final moment, and
Speaker 4: then they would bring in one group of babies and
Speaker 4: then if one got upset, they would have to it's.
Speaker 3: A whole stop it out.
Speaker 4: Baby wrangling is a real thing in the industry. It's yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's it's funny.
Speaker 2: I did not know that there were so many babies
Speaker 2: and they could work for so little.
Speaker 1: I guess that's good. We can't like overwork these babies.
Speaker 4: But no, I mean I think I think it's because
Speaker 4: they're so young too, Like the industry as a whole,
Speaker 4: like when I was a teenager growing up, like the
Speaker 4: the state rules and everything of working, like you can
Speaker 4: only work a certain numbn of hours as kids too,
Speaker 4: until you're until you're eighteen, and so it's it's as
Speaker 4: a kid actor. It was always I always wanted to
Speaker 4: stay on set longer, and you have to do three
Speaker 4: hours of school every day, so it's it's always like
Speaker 4: a very scheduled, you know, brought out like it's they
Speaker 4: have to do a lot to maintain, you know, a
Speaker 4: shooting date with kids. But with that was my first
Speaker 4: time working with babies to where it was like, oh,
Speaker 4: they have to go now, oh okay, that was they've
Speaker 4: only been here from Devin baby. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So what are you up to these days?
Speaker 1: I saw that you have a one and a half
Speaker 1: million followers on TikTok?
Speaker 3: What are you doing on there?
Speaker 4: I do? It's it's crazy.
Speaker 3: What are you? What's your content?
Speaker 4: Fun? You know, I'm trying to keep up with the
Speaker 4: cool kids. I do just a lot of yes, comedy stuff,
Speaker 4: whatever kind of hits me is the things going on
Speaker 4: in my life that I you know, wonder if other
Speaker 4: people go through too. But it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: I started it like a year or so ago and thought, Okay,
Speaker 4: let's see what this is about, like you know, and
Speaker 4: it's just was astounding how it kind of took off
Speaker 4: and now it's a great place to kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: make something and it enables me to be creative and
Speaker 4: do some comedy stuff. And I have an improv background too,
Speaker 4: so it's been fun to kind of try to create
Speaker 4: some things and talk to the fans, and I mean
Speaker 4: talk about some the nostalgic, like just that group of
Speaker 4: fans and everything they are. They are amazingly loyal fans
Speaker 4: because they're all hanging out just wanting to talk. You know,
Speaker 4: Disney a lot too, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: Do you have anybody that follows you but that when
Speaker 1: they follow you you were like, oh, hell yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: I was just asking another friend of mine this the
Speaker 1: other day because she got big on Instagram doing these
Speaker 1: videos and stuff, and she's like, oh yeah, little John,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, I have to say I saw I think it
Speaker 4: was a little mass followed no mentioned Halloween Town this
Speaker 4: past year, tweeted about it and oh okay that I
Speaker 4: mean that kind of blew my brother's mind for sure.
Speaker 4: My brother, who's twenty two, was just like, what I think.
Speaker 4: Titus Burgess followed.
Speaker 3: Me, Oh I love it.
Speaker 4: I love him too. Yeah, kimm Schmidt is just he
Speaker 4: just was phenomenal on that and I could listen to
Speaker 4: him saying the whole time I said hi to Keky
Speaker 4: Palmer recently on Instagram and she wrote me just the
Speaker 4: sweetest comment and followed me and it was just like, oh,
Speaker 4: like we hadn't seen each other in the longest time.
Speaker 4: She's s girl, she is okay, there we go.
Speaker 3: She was little, she was like a child. She was
Speaker 3: like a really little kid. It's cute. I mean scary
Speaker 3: there there's you know, yeah sv but she was very cute.
Speaker 4: Cool within the SVU. Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3: What did you guys work on together?
Speaker 4: We actually have never worked together, I guess from you know,
Speaker 4: we were both on Disney. And then I stopped by
Speaker 4: a music video shoot that she was doing with Mary J.
Speaker 4: Blige and Ludacris. I can't remember the name of the song.
Speaker 4: It was like run Away Love. I think one of
Speaker 4: those just random things that my I stopped by to
Speaker 4: see my publicist at the time, and then she was
Speaker 4: I didn't know she was in the video and so
Speaker 4: she came out, was like hey, and so it just
Speaker 4: we've just kind of said high over the years and yes.
Speaker 3: Wait, did you meet Ludacris? You really? You swept right
Speaker 3: on that another SVU alum.
Speaker 4: I did not meet him then, but I do have
Speaker 4: a ludacrous story. I was back in New York actually working.
Speaker 4: I came back on The Guiding Light after I left,
Speaker 4: right before it went off the air, and he was
Speaker 4: in the same studio doing some show I don't know.
Speaker 4: But I got in the elevator to go to lunch
Speaker 4: and I ended up standing right in front of him
Speaker 4: in the elevator and we had the same publicist at
Speaker 4: the time, and so it was one of those things
Speaker 4: where I was like, Oh my god, do I do it?
Speaker 4: Do I say Hi? Like? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: you don't say hi like, You're you're gonna regret it
Speaker 4: for the rest of your life. So I said Hi,
Speaker 4: don't you know. He didn't know who, you know, but
Speaker 4: he was very sweet and said Hi, and then we
Speaker 4: both you know, went off in our separate ways. But
Speaker 4: now I'm it was one of those no regrets, okay exactly.
Speaker 3: I was like, no regrets. I did say, Hilda, you
Speaker 3: do you do? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And another thing I noticed that I got really excited about.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge Bugs life girl. I actually have one
Speaker 2: of the character's toys right there. But were you all
Speaker 2: the little girls like in the school?
Speaker 4: Yes, there was like a group of us that came
Speaker 4: in and voiced a lot of the Blueberry ants like that.
Speaker 4: That were all the various friends that Dot had And
Speaker 4: it was the coolest experience because they hadn't finished animating,
Speaker 4: fully animating the movie yet, and anderstand and John Laster
Speaker 4: with there like the all the sessions, which I was
Speaker 4: impressed with because you never know, you know who creatively
Speaker 4: and you know the big wigs within the company if
Speaker 4: they're going to come and participate in every session. But
Speaker 4: they let us watch like sections of the movie explained
Speaker 4: everything that was going on. We get to see some
Speaker 4: of some of the movie was still in like the
Speaker 4: sketch phase of like drawing and wasn't fully animated yet,
Speaker 4: so these different scenes would be pieces of the movie.
Speaker 4: And it was really fun getting to see how those
Speaker 4: movies come together. And I'm a huge Pixar fan, so
Speaker 4: that was like I was, you know, I was holding
Speaker 4: the fangirl in is as hard, you know, as hard
Speaker 4: as I could and.
Speaker 3: They're so cute.
Speaker 2: Do you have a drawing of the answers? Did they
Speaker 2: give you toys? Do you have a memory of the
Speaker 2: ant or just in your heart?
Speaker 4: No, in my heart for sure, it will always stay
Speaker 4: in my heart. Yeah, they were sweet. They gave us
Speaker 4: they signed us posters at the end of the at
Speaker 4: the end of the sessions. But no, I that would
Speaker 4: have been that would have been pretty cool.
Speaker 3: Too, you know huge. Yeah, they're really cute. They are.
Speaker 4: I love that movie too.
Speaker 3: Do you have anything that you're working on right now
Speaker 3: that you want to like? Plug?
Speaker 4: You're so sweet? Well, I mean, I'm I'm obviously on
Speaker 4: all the socials if people want to follow me, and uh,
Speaker 4: I have an Etsy shop called Craftily Creative that has
Speaker 4: a bunch of some like uh graphic t's and some
Speaker 4: other fun stuff that are that's Halloween Town inspired. It's
Speaker 4: kind of my love letter to the fans. And I
Speaker 4: think later this year, I'm i guest started in an
Speaker 4: episode of an animated Disney show that's coming out soon too.
Speaker 4: So it's I'm grateful just to still be creative in
Speaker 4: the business and and get to do my thing, you know.
Speaker 4: It's it's so fun to get to talk through uh,
Speaker 4: fun memories like this of cool shows and stuff. And
Speaker 4: actually this morning, I think somebody the episode must have
Speaker 4: just aired of SBU because somebody tagged me in a oh.
Speaker 3: I was just I was gonna ask you that too.
Speaker 1: Do you get that like every time your episode air
Speaker 1: or someone's like just saw you.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I get DM like tweeted all of that
Speaker 4: and then somebody sometimes they put up clips which I
Speaker 4: think I reposted in my instant story but it's uh yeah,
Speaker 4: and it was it was me and Christopher Vloney like,
Speaker 4: and it's just I hadn't seen it in a while.
Speaker 4: So it genuinely tickles me to to get to go
Speaker 4: back and kind of, you know, relive, relive some of
Speaker 4: those moments.
Speaker 3: Oh man, she was fun. She was fun, and I
Speaker 3: love that she had opinions on her outerwear. You know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
Speaker 2: When I get to mesh on these little details with
Speaker 2: her amazing guests and uh yeah, that was like really fun.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of our listeners and friends, I
Speaker 2: know Matteo Lane will be excited and he will hit
Speaker 2: me up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I for this week's post mortem, I don't know what
Speaker 1: we can say. Uh, your parents are bad, but they're
Speaker 1: not as bad as a cult that's going to try
Speaker 1: to impregnate you and leave you to get bitten by roaches.
Speaker 3: So maybe try to work it out.
Speaker 2: Also, come on miss Haggarty, Why did you let Samantha
Speaker 2: die like that? I know, you know, because it's like
Speaker 2: we love her at the end, but it's like, no,
Speaker 2: you let this man control you. But like maybe she
Speaker 2: was controlled. He manipulated her while she was in grief
Speaker 2: over her daughter, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he was like, I'll kick you out on
Speaker 1: the street and you won't be able to help any
Speaker 1: of these girls, and she was like, okay, one to
Speaker 1: save many who knows, you know, who knows what's going
Speaker 1: through an old lady's uh mind and a cult.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you can't clone people like I don't don't trust,
Speaker 2: don't run, I don't know, I can't any.
Speaker 1: These Ashton puts your lookalikes that think they can change
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 3: And Mila, you saw them their video.
Speaker 2: They're matching up to three million dollars of donations to Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Oh because she is from that region, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome, super big. I can't say the same for
Speaker 1: this fucking doctor loser.
Speaker 3: No, he's not a real person.
Speaker 1: But in terms of the Elizabeth Smart story, I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like let's all just keep our eyes open and see
Speaker 1: in case you see it, Sketchy people in public. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do to prevent what happened to
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 3: I guess besides, like be aware of.
Speaker 1: Sketchy people in your life, sketchy roofers working on your house.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, don't let anyone work or live or enter
Speaker 2: your home at any time.
Speaker 3: That's the only way to protect your children.
Speaker 2: That's only that's Oh, and this is something we didn't
Speaker 2: talk about, but this is more worldly not for the episode,
Speaker 2: but have you seen the posts about like Kim Kardashian
Speaker 2: and Kanye and how like she's so rich and powerful
Speaker 2: and it's still hard for her to get away from
Speaker 2: like an abusive person and it's still being stalked. And
Speaker 2: yet we're so blase when we tell people like why
Speaker 2: didn't you leave, Why don't you just leave?
Speaker 3: Why don't you live?
Speaker 2: And it's like one of the richest people in the
Speaker 2: world couldn't leave with the most security and the most protection,
Speaker 2: And that you're asking just like random teachers to like
Speaker 2: be able to ski easily.
Speaker 1: No, it's that's such a good point. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: hard for everybody, And yeah, Kim Kardashian has helped get
Speaker 1: people off death throw and she can't get Kanye out
Speaker 1: of her fucking life, like it's.
Speaker 2: Nuts, and that now there's all these like you know,
Speaker 2: like he was controlling and he changed the way she dressed,
Speaker 2: and they're putting all these clips together from the show
Speaker 2: and how controlling he is and even all of his
Speaker 2: girlfriends he dresses all of them.
Speaker 3: That's not for me.
Speaker 2: It's not for me too. I also do know that
Speaker 2: the Kanye doc isn't made by him. He's not making money.
Speaker 2: These people that he fucked over had the footage and
Speaker 2: they made all the money off of selling the footage
Speaker 2: for the doc.
Speaker 3: Oh the genius thing. Yeah wow, Well.
Speaker 2: Not either here nor there. But this was a jam
Speaker 2: packs amazing episode.
Speaker 1: You know the thing, if you steal something and you're
Speaker 1: running away from the cops, don't turn around and shoot them.
Speaker 3: You're just gonna make it worse.
Speaker 1: Just a note to all the skateboarders out there that
Speaker 1: are trying to steal shit and shoot cops. Also, I
Speaker 1: just hope that every missing person's picture I ever see,
Speaker 1: I can like photograph memory into my brain and then
Speaker 1: one day be like, I know her, I saw her,
Speaker 1: I know, I know. I wish I could be like
Speaker 1: these people. I used to think, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm going to memorize amber alerts and like you forget
Speaker 1: them the second you see them, you know what.
Speaker 3: I mean, Like, oh, I can't.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I do think that we learn a lot
Speaker 1: about from people like Elizabeth Smart who don't completely like
Speaker 1: collapse and even though that is completely your right if
Speaker 1: you go through something like this, but who use their
Speaker 1: experience and their trauma to sort of like educate others
Speaker 1: and help others. And I think that leads us pretty
Speaker 1: well into our what would Sister Peg do segment this week,
Speaker 1: which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards
Speaker 1: a resource, a website, an organization, a book, something to
Speaker 1: give you more context and more information about what we
Speaker 1: covered in today's episode. And we want to highlight a
Speaker 1: book by Elizabeth Smart called My Story. I believe she
Speaker 1: has two books, but this is I believe her first one,
Speaker 1: and this is her memoir, My Story, where she recounts
Speaker 1: the horrors of what happened to her, but also talks
Speaker 1: about how she maintained hope throughout it all and devised
Speaker 1: the plan that would ultimately lead to her rescue in Utah.
Speaker 1: She also discusses how she's used advocacy to move through
Speaker 1: what happened to her, and the link to buy the
Speaker 1: book is in our show notes.
Speaker 2: If you're interested and next week's episode, we'll be control
Speaker 2: season five, episode nine and we can't wait to see you.
Speaker 1: Such a good episode, See you guys next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at thots Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at karaklink and at Glittergyes.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Analie Snelson.
Speaker 1: And to our mixing engineer RYO Baum, and to Henry
Speaker 1: Kaperski for our theme song, and to Carly Jeen Andrews
Speaker 1: for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producer Georgia Hardstark,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple podcast,
Speaker 2: Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts, dun dun