1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to Battleground Podcast. Today we have the 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: great Nick Palmashano. Nick is a West Point grad an 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: infantry captain. He's a knuckle dragger like me. He's a ranger. 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: He is the former CEO of Ranger Up, now CEO 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: of Diesel Jack Media. He is clearly a remarkable and 6 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: accomplished guy. But what really impressed me about Nick was 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: that when Afghanistan was in full collapse and chaos and 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: death were everywhere, Nick Palmashano was on the ground in 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: less than forty eight hours running continuous operations to save 10 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: people's lives. And he did. And by the way, this 11 00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: was a great personal risk to his own safety. He 12 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: along with several others with Save Our Allies, saved the 13 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: lives of thousands of Afghans who would have been otherwise 14 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: left to the Taliban's predations. Now, we talked about his story, 15 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: how he founded one of the most successful veteran apparel 16 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: companies in the nation, about how it feels to be 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: a pioneer, a leader, a servant, the effect of poor leadership, 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: and how he took action when innocent lives were at stake. 19 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. He is clearly an amazing guy. But 20 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: one last thing before the interview. Our new website is 21 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: up official Seanparnell dot com, and on that website we 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: have our new Battleground Apparel clothing line. We have two 23 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: T shirts for sale on there right now, but we 24 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: will have more very very soon. But look, we don't 25 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: have that many for the first print, so go grab 26 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: them while you can. Also, we have a Battleground newsletter 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: called you Guessed It this sit rep. For those of 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: you who all of my campaign, you know what this 29 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: is already for those who don't. The sit rep is 30 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: an acronym for situation report, and it will give you 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: everything that you need to know about the movement that 32 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: we are building here. This is a movement of people 33 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: who love America and are willing to defend her with 34 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: every fiber of your being. Anyways, without further delay, I 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy my conversation with Nick Palmershana, Nick, what 36 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: is going on? Welcome to Battleground Man. 37 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. Man, it's been a while. 38 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: It has been a while, and you know you wasted 39 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: absolutely no time logging into the studio and throwing some 40 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: shade at me about something that you and I haven't 41 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: talked about or I haven't even thought about in probably 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: five years. So it was like, I and just so 43 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: we're clear, just for everyone watching, I did not abandoned Nicks. 44 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: At some point during this interview that accusation is gonna 45 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: come up, but I need to just get you did 46 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: abandon me. 47 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: We were we were at an event together, we were 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: having a good time, and then you you abandoned me 49 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: for cooler people. 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: No way, man, you were always in the popular club. 51 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: It was just me. I was rolling solo. You had 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: your whole entourage and your click around. They didn't want 53 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: anything to. 54 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: Do with me. 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: So I literally want this is this is revisionous history. 56 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: I was literally waiting outside for you, and then you 57 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: were like, oh man, I just headed out. And then 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: it was like I was just staring, you know, into 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: the dark DC night single tear rolling down my eye, 60 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: you know, started playing like all of a sudden the background, 61 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: like a band just came by, and it was like 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: in the Hums of the Angels. 63 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: Sarah Sarah mac a dog limp a dog limped by. 64 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: This is gonna end up being this is going to 65 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: end up in one of your documentaries. Or your movies 66 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: or your commercials or or you're one of your music videos, 67 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and it's gonna all it's gonna be completely fake news. 68 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: All I'm saying is you've got all these books where 69 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: you don't leave anybody behind. But there I was on 70 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: a street corner in Dcon. 71 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: Well yeah whatever, man, whatever. So you are, first of all, like, 72 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: thank you for for coming on and taking time out 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: of your day to do this. Man, It's it's awesome 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: to have you, Nick, Like you're a guy that that 75 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: I've sort of known for a while now, and you've 76 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: done it all and you know from whether it was 77 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: West Point, to serve it in in the Army, in 78 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: the infantry, founding a company called Ranger Up two, jumping 79 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: into the fight again in the midst of the Afghan collapse. 80 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: Now the CEO of diesel Jack Media. I mean, you're 81 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: you are all over the place, but I gotta I 82 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: gotta start with West Point. Why And then there's the 83 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: reason the reason for that, the reason why I'm ask 84 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: in that question is that, like I'm telling you right 85 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: here right now, there's no way I could have done it. 86 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 2: And it's no, that's not true. 87 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: Having having gone Look, man, having gone to West Point 88 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: after I've been out of the military, after I wrote 89 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: out Leavelatune and seeing how those kids operate sun up 90 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: the sundown. Their entire day is structured. They're always highly motivated. 91 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: How did you I mean I couldn't do it. Yeah, 92 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't do You could have? You could have done it. 93 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: You know, it's like everything else. I mean, think about 94 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: every everything that you've done, any school, any like, after 95 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: two weeks, it just becomes your life, Like, no matter 96 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: how bad it is, whether it's you know, ranger school 97 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: or some dumb course that we had to do and 98 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: sit around in a class. I mean like, after two weeks, 99 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: it's your life. So so like the secret to anything, 100 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: and you know this already, I'm not telling anything you 101 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: don't know is to suck it up for two three 102 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: weeks and after that you're just used to it. So 103 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 2: I went to West Point. It was a weird thing. 104 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: I would uh, the military was not on my radar. 105 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: My dad is a My dad's a Vietnam VET. 106 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: He was Air Force. 107 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: He was an ALO with the first Group during Vietnam. 108 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: And I didn't even know that until my brother and 109 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: I were like, you know, when we were kids, we 110 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: were going through like my mom's hope chest looking for 111 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: things to like dress up in, and like we open 112 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: it up and we were just looking for like seventies 113 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: clothes and there's just like stack after stack of tiger 114 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: stripes and then like a green beret and like a 115 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: plaque that's like, you know, Nick Paul Mashano, you know, 116 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: thank you Alo first Special Forces Group and you know, 117 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: you know, seventy one seventy two. I was like, hey, 118 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: what's this like? And then my mom's casually like, oh, yeah, 119 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: you know, your dad was like special Forces. 120 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: You know, and it was like what you know? And wait, 121 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: you didn't you didn't have any sense that your that 122 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: your father was a Vietnam combat better and not just 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: a Vietnam combat better and somebody that sounded like he 124 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: was on the tip of the spear at all times. Yeah, 125 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: not really like I mean. 126 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: And then even then, like once we kind of knew 127 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: that he was a Vietnam vet, like his stories were like, 128 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: you know, it was like, hey, how do you know, 129 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: how did you end up working, you know, with Special Forces? 130 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: And he was like like his answer was like, you know, 131 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: most units had terrible food and they had the best food, 132 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 2: and as an Italian like I needed to get access 133 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: to the best food, so I volunteered. You know. It 134 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: was like like what like uh, you know, so it 135 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: was interesting. But he, you know, he never pushed the military. 136 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: My parents didn't push the military. It wasn't like a 137 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: thing that uh I'm I'm realizing right now and I'm 138 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: just calling myself on it that I'm using like a 139 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: company computer and they left slack on, so I'm shutting 140 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: it down right now so we don't have occasional things. 141 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: So that's okay. We can get we can edit this 142 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: out and post. 143 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: I know, I'm just well, I mean, you can leave 144 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: it if you want. Just this will be the payback 145 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: for you know how like you abandoned me and I 146 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: left slack on, it's almost the same thing. So you know, 147 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: I take my SATs, I do pretty well. I start 148 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: getting the you know, hey, maybe you should go to 149 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: our school things. But West Point was the first one 150 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: and I looked at it and I was like, ah, 151 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: this is pretty cool, and I pushed it aside. My 152 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: dad kind of pushed it back towards me and he said, 153 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: you know, I want you to just visit and think 154 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 2: about it because this feels like something that would be 155 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: great for you. 156 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: And he does. 157 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: He's not a guy that weighs in like he's a 158 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: big believer, like, find your own life path, do what 159 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: you want to do. And so, you know, I was 160 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 2: a pretty good student and I was also a pretty 161 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: good wrestler. So there were opportunities that I had. I was, 162 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: you know, I was looking to wrestle at MIT or MIT. 163 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: What'd you get on your s A T S? 164 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: I did all right, I did all right? Or Boston University, 165 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: Roger Williams University. So I had some offers to wrestle, 166 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 2: you know. 167 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: And so I. 168 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: I visited West Point, you know, and all the other 169 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: schools were like, you should come here because we're the best. 170 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: You should come here because we're the smartest, we're the 171 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: our programs are the best, We're awesome. And when I 172 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: went to West Point, I followed around this guy, Cadet Han, 173 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 2: and Han just got his ass kicked all day. He 174 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: was I'm not going to say he was a bad 175 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: cadet because he was a great guy, but he was 176 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: a guy that like they enjoyed torturing a little bit, 177 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,599 Speaker 2: you know. And I was one of those guys for 178 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 2: a little while, so I get it. 179 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: And so he had a bad day. 180 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: He had like a bad day and the whole time 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: they're beaten on this guy and I spend a day 182 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: with them. 183 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Wait, this is when you were this is when you 184 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: were just on the tour. 185 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 2: I'm in high school. Yeah, yeah, you spend you you 186 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: go and you like follow a cadet around and. 187 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: They were beating the ship out of this cadet on 188 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: your tour and watching not like physically like you know, 189 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: oh yeah, like hazing the crap up. Yeah, there's gonna 190 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: be somebody that watches this and say, oh West Point 191 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: Cadets beat each other up there. It's you know what 192 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: I no, no, no, no. 193 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 2: But uh so the last meal, right before I get 194 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: like sent back to my parents, this uh this cow 195 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 2: a junior leans over and says, hey, man, check it out. 196 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: Like if you're coming here for your parents, or you're 197 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: coming here because you think it's cool, or you're coming 198 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 2: here for any other reason than you want to do it. 199 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: You want to serve your country and like be the 200 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: best that you can be. Like you're gonna fucking fail, 201 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: Like you can't come here and do it for other people, 202 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,119 Speaker 2: so like make that decision and then like choose accordingly. 203 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh shit, like this like that's 204 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 2: my personality. That was a wrestler, you know, so it 205 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's a challenge, I need to take 206 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: it on the challenge, you know. Yeah, and they were 207 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 2: just different. So then I decided I wanted to go 208 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: to West Point, and I also realized, you know, I 209 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: might not get in. So then I also started applying 210 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: to ROTC because I wanted that challenge in my life, 211 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: whether it was West Point or somewhere else. So I 212 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: applied for ROTC at every school I applied to, and 213 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: I also applied to West Point, Annapolis and the Air 214 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: Force Academy. 215 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: So what about that challenge was appealing to you? Is 216 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: it just the idea that you would be able to 217 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: whether it was ROTC or West Point or another military academy, 218 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: the idea that you would be tested, you would undergo 219 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: a gauntlet, a crucible, and what was it You just 220 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: wanted to see if you can come out on the 221 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: other side and make it. That's part of it. 222 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: The other part of it is, you know, we have 223 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 2: a very patriotic family and not patriotic in the way 224 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: that I think some people think of patriotic. It's like 225 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 2: you would never see my dad, you know, wearing head 226 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: to tew American flag paraphernalia. Not that there's anything wrong 227 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 2: with that. I mean, like one of my best friends 228 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: on planet Earth is Tim Kennedy, and that's what that's 229 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: what he wears all the time. 230 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: So but. 231 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: You know, my like my dad is an Italian immigrant, 232 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: you know that became an American citizen, and like, you know, 233 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: he's he always spoke about the opportunity that that this 234 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 2: country provides that you know, I mean in Italy, like 235 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,599 Speaker 2: post World War two, like people were starving, you know, 236 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: and there wasn't you know, his his he lived in 237 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 2: a tiny mountain town called Scopoly, which is an amazing place. 238 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 2: I mean there claim to fame as an instrument called 239 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: the zambonia, which is like kind of like the Scottish bagpipes, 240 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: but made from like sheepskin. I'm seriously like it was 241 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 2: like they made it into the Boston Pops a few 242 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 2: years ago and it was like a huge it was like, 243 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: you know, the greatest thing that had ever happened in 244 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: the town. But like, you know, his his family, like 245 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: his dad was a mason and you know, a raised 246 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: pigs and like his father's father did that, and so 247 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: forth and so on, and you know, in one generation, 248 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: you know, my dad is college educated, which no one 249 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: had ever had. And he you know, through the GI 250 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: Bill and uh uh, you know, he was valedictorian at 251 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 2: Roger Williams University and like, you know, we were middle class. 252 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: And you know, his kids, you know, like my brother 253 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 2: has a master's degree. I have a master's degree. Like 254 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: we've had opportunities. One generation, our entire family, you know, 255 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: pathway is different. Like he thinks it's the wildest thing 256 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: in the world. You know, when I get to have 257 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: these meetings in d C. And I'm meeting people, I mean, 258 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: you know, like you know the deal, like and you've 259 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: you've met all these people and you realize it's actually 260 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: not that cool. But you know, but he looks at 261 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: it like, man, in one generation, our whole family changed. God, yeah, 262 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: that's that's something that only happens here. It doesn't happen 263 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: anywhere else. And I'm married to a brit right, So 264 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: my wife, my wife is English and and. 265 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: She's very fierce by the way she is she's a 266 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: fierce lady. She's fierce, and I mean that with the 267 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: highest regards. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, no, she is. 268 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: She's she's a stud in literally every every capacity. She's 269 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: better than I am at jiu jitsu, she's smarter than 270 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: I am. She's better at business, she's better at relationships. 271 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: You know, like. 272 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: She's a So she's a combat multiplier in your family. 273 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: I mean, she is, she is the combat multiplier. I'm 274 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: like the anchor weighing the family down and that kind 275 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: of drags it forward. But you know, so even me, 276 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: like a person that has been all over the world, 277 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: I always kind of thought of England as like old America, right, 278 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: Like it's it's kind of like America but with like 279 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: fancier buildings. But it isn't like, you know, she had 280 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: less opportunity, you know. I mean, and she had a 281 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: great job and she did well, but the opportunity, you know, 282 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: she she came to America and all of a sudden, 283 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: the skill set she had were infinitely more were treated 284 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: with more value than they were in the UK. Because 285 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: like in the UK, it's kind of like if you're rich, 286 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: you stay rich, and like if you're middle class, your 287 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: middle clas like there isn't the same social mobility. So 288 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: I've been to I was trying to count the other day, 289 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: something like fifty four, fifty five, fifty six countries, spent 290 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: a lot of time overseas. Like I'm not the patriot. 291 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: That's just like America's the best. 292 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Like I've really thought about this. You see, you've seen it, 293 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: You've seen it, you think about You've you've always been 294 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: like this, Nick, You've you've always been a thinker. 295 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: It's just we have so much opportunity, and it's important 296 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: to realize that, to appreciate it and not to squander it. 297 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: What I find amazing, just in the brief time that 298 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: I'm listening to your story, is that your father didn't 299 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: talk about his military service. You find and stumble upon memorabilia, 300 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: legacy type stuff in a wooden box, and then you 301 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: find yourself at the most elite military I mean, I 302 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: think West Point is just probably it's an elite school. 303 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: I mean, not just from an academic standpoint, but from 304 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: a leadership standpoint. And you find yourself there and you're 305 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: a young cadet in training to be a leader in 306 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: the military, and I just wonder, were you influent. When 307 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: you saw your dad's uniforms and you saw his gear, 308 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: was that what pushed you on that path? You feel 309 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: like that was always supposed to be your path. 310 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. And again, because my dad 311 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: was so casual about it. It wasn't like this is 312 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: the way forward, you know, but with what he saw 313 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: is I think you know, I'd have to ask him, 314 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: but I you know, when I moved back to the 315 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: state because I lived in Italy my dad. My dad 316 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: had had a gs job in Italy for a big 317 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 2: chunk of my formative years, so I was, for all 318 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: intents and purposes, I was an Italian kid from the 319 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 2: age of three on and I spoke Italian fluently and 320 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: all my friends were Italian and Italy is like it crazy, Yeah, 321 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: Italy is like an idyllic place for a kid. I mean, 322 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: like it's the whole country revolves around taking care of children, 323 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: like you know how like you know in America, like 324 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: people can get away with like abusing kids and and 325 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 2: like it you know, you're in courteling yes, like let 326 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: me tell you what doesn't happen in Italy, Like it 327 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: doesn't people disappear like you're not you're not You're not 328 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 2: hurting a kid and like it. So it was like 329 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: an idyllic situation where like everyone was kind and the 330 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: you know, I come back to Massachusetts, right and they're like, hey, 331 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: I heard you speak Italian. Say something and I did, 332 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: and then they beat the shit out of me. And 333 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 2: that was like that was like eighteen months of my 334 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: life until the weird Greek kid showed up. And so 335 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: that's why I started combat sports. It's like I had 336 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: a problem and I was like, I have to solve 337 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 2: the problem. And my parents didn't even know that this 338 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 2: was happening because I don't know. It was like my 339 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: problem to solve. So I was like, hey, I want 340 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: to take karate because Karate Kid, because you know, you 341 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 2: and I are old. I'm a little older, I think, 342 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: but Karate Kid too was was the heat at this time. 343 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: So I was like, I want to do I remember, 344 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: I remember Karate Kid too. 345 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: I want to do karate and my mom was like, hey, 346 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: karate is like forty five minutes away, but Judo is 347 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes away, so we're going to do judo. And 348 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 2: I was bummed out, but I didn't realize how much 349 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: of a blessing. That was so I started judo, which 350 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 2: led me to wrestling, and like you know, wrestling really 351 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: became like my, that was my That's all I did. 352 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: Like I I literally would go to wrestling practice and 353 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: then go to judo practice after wrestling practice, like I 354 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: did nothing but combat sports. 355 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: And wrestling West Point, right, I did. 356 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: But I was like a scrub, you know, like just 357 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 2: full disclosure. I was a very good high school wrestler. 358 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: I skipped a grade when I was younger. So when 359 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: I I was sixteen, my senior year of high school, 360 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: and when I went to West Point, I wasn't quite 361 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: ready for the physicality and the skill and the program 362 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: at I'm not making excuses like I wasn't good anough, 363 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: so let me just I'll just say that. 364 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: But whereas other programs. 365 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 2: At the time that I was talking to knew this 366 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: and they were like, oh shit, like this guy's doing 367 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: all this at sixteen, like we can you know, we're 368 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: going to sit him for a year and you know 369 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: in three years he's going to be an assassin. West Point. 370 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 2: Just the way it is, it's like you're thrown into 371 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: it and you're either good enough or you're not. And 372 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: So I had two guys in my weight class that 373 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: were hammers, just hammers, and so like I was like around, 374 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: but I wasn't like the guy and it was pretty 375 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: clear I wasn't going to be the guy. So I 376 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: kind of was like a scrub on the team for 377 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: you know a while, and then the I don't know, 378 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly what happened, but the Army Judo 379 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: team was like, hey, like we heard you're really good 380 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: at judo, so like, full disclosure, I wrestling is my 381 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: favorite thing in the world to do, but I'm a 382 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: much better judo player for whatever reason. It's just and uh, 383 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 2: they were like, you know, hey, do you want to 384 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: do you want to come out for the judo team 385 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: and like it's like all right, let me let me 386 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 2: switch gears. So I spent the last couple of years 387 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: on the on the Army Judo team representing them. 388 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: So did did you ever? When you're when you're at 389 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: West Point and having been there myself, there's so much 390 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: history almost woven into everything at that's so much symbolism, 391 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: so much history, whether it's the cannons that are always 392 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: that are buried, you know, muzzled down in the concrete 393 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: that are like the little railings between classrooms and stuff, 394 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: And it's supposed to symbolize what like that, Americans, like 395 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War, Americans not firing on 396 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: one another ever again, something like that. 397 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: Man, there's so many different monuments, and I would be 398 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 2: lying to you if I told you I knew everyone anymore. 399 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: I used to. There was a ton of different things, 400 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, so like. 401 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: Well, that's sort of what I was asking Nick, is like, 402 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: did you ever stop to think that when you're there? 403 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: Do you ever stop to just take a look around 404 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: and think, like, man, we're standing on the shoulders of 405 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: giants here. 406 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, all the time. It's impossible not to be 407 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: there and just be like like how am I even here? 408 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 2: You know, like because you know the motto at the time. 409 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if it still is the motto, but 410 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 2: you know, it was the history that we teach was 411 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: made by the people we taught, and you know, and 412 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 2: it was you know, you stand in some of those 413 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 2: buildings and it's like, you know, schwartz Cough you know, lived, 414 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: and people know like, hey, this was Schwartzkof's room, or 415 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: this was where Eisenhower, you know, and you're like man, 416 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 2: like I'm just I'm just trying to pass math, you know. 417 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know, like all things, 418 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: you've got to I think I think some of the 419 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: best and some of the worst officers come out of 420 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: West Point. And the reason that I say that is, 421 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: and this is true of all the academies, is the 422 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: academies take people, they break them, and they build them 423 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: back up again. But if you're if you're there for 424 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: the wrong reasons, like if you love yourself too much, 425 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: it it just like accelerates that problem. I'm not saying 426 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: a person shouldn't shouldn't be confident, but like the people 427 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 2: some of the people that have become some of the 428 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: best West Point officers that I've met, maybe they weren't 429 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: like the best guy there, maybe they didn't have the 430 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: rank at school, maybe their shoes weren't perfectly polished, but 431 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: they they were absorbing the lessons of you know, this 432 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 2: is a team, like we graduate together. Nobody graduates by themselves. 433 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: And then the guys that I prefer not to associate 434 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: with really think of themselves as you know, God's gift, 435 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: like you know, I'm I'm pat and I'm you know, 436 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: and and so I would say that for the most part, 437 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: if somebody tells me that they graduated from West Point, 438 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 2: my initial bias is this is a very competent person. 439 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: But I do pause and I just listen to how 440 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: they talk about themselves, how they describe things before I 441 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: make that assessment, because like people that really really love 442 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 2: themselves from there. I don't know, I don't know, I 443 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: don't know. If I'm explaining myself. You are right, but 444 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: it's like, you know, no institution makes you a different person. 445 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: It takes what you already are and like accelerates it. 446 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: I I you're you're making yourself very clear, and I 447 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: understand exactly what you're what you're talking about. And you know, 448 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: for me, as a young leader in the military, like 449 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: I learned very very quickly. You know, one I already 450 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: knew going into you know, the military and then going 451 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: into being a o pplatoon leader that I did not 452 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: have all the answers, far from it, And I just 453 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: learned very quickly the importance of being humble and having 454 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: big eyes, big ears, willing to listen, take feedback. And 455 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: it seems to me that that's what you're talking about, 456 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: the importance of humility and leadership and how those two 457 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: things are sort of woven together. 458 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean like like I take this approach 459 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 2: with everything like we're all just fancy monkeys doing our best, 460 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, you know, you start 461 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: taking yourself too seriously, like we're not. I mean, you know, 462 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: like you and I are about the same age. So 463 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: like I blinked and my daughter is you know, in 464 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 2: high school, like I blinked, and my son as a lieutenant. 465 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: Like life happens fast, and you know, take this stuff 466 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 2: to any of this stuff too seriously. Like I have 467 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: friends that are in politics and you know this world 468 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 2: where it's like man, and I know you know this 469 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: world better than I do, but it's like so and 470 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: so said this to so and so, and this is 471 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: going to cause this problem, and that's going to cause 472 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 2: this problem, and like it's so complex, and I'm always. 473 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: Like I don't care, and like what what do you 474 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: mean you don't care? Like what do you mean you 475 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: don't care? 476 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: Like if so and so says this, like this could 477 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 2: affect what this other person thinks about you. I really 478 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: don't care. And it's it's not that like I don't 479 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 2: care about these people. It's not that, like, you know, 480 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: nobody wants bad things said about them, but like, whether 481 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: it's good things or bad things, it's none of my business. 482 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 2: And I'm not going to expend any time on it, 483 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: trying to fix it, trying to play games. It's like 484 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 2: it's exhausting and like there are more important things to do, 485 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: which is whatever you're doing right now. You know, whatever 486 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: is happening in the present, Like life is unfair, we 487 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: all know it. Bad things are going to happen, good 488 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 2: things are going to happen. You can't control what those 489 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: things are, but you can control how you react. And 490 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: that's just how I try to live my life. 491 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that that? Do you think that being 492 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: at West Point helped shape that belief system in you? 493 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: The idea that you know, yeah, like life is a 494 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: roller coaster, you're gonna have ups and downs. Or if 495 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: life were a book, you know, beginning, middle, and end, 496 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna have good chapters and you're gonna have bad chapters. 497 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: I think it just you just have it's our job 498 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: to just turn the page as enthusiastically as possible, whether 499 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: it's a good chapter or a bad chapter. Do you 500 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: think that that was one of the lessons that West 501 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: Point taught you after you graduated. 502 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 2: I'll tell you about my journey at West Point, and 503 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: nobody wants to hear this much about West Point, so 504 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: I'll try to keep it. I'll try to keep it short. 505 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: When I got there, all right, As with many kids, 506 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: I was not used to failure. I had failed a 507 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 2: lot when I was very young. But high school for 508 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 2: me was basically like I became an athlete. 509 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: You know. 510 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: I was good at cross country, I was good at track. 511 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: I was excellent at wrestling. I was excellent at judo. 512 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: I had good grades. Like I was one of those 513 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: kids that's like annoying, you know, by the end of 514 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: high school. You know, at the beginning of high school, 515 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 2: I was just a weird freshman, but at the end 516 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: I was like I was a student athlete, and so 517 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: I had a lot of confidence. I get to West Point. 518 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 2: I couldn't get anything right. You know, they give you 519 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: a book like this thick You've got a memorize called 520 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: bugle notes, and I'm good at memorizing. But for whatever, 521 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: they put the pressure on and all of a sudden, 522 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 2: I couldn't say anything. So they made me pop off 523 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 2: with sir, I'm a wedge, the simplest machine known to man, 524 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: and I still don't work. And I had to say that, 525 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: like they would just yell Paul Mashano hit it, and 526 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: I'd have to shout that out, and. 527 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: Like it was. 528 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: It was soul crushing at the beginning, but after a 529 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: few weeks, it was like I started to figure it 530 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 2: out and I became like a very good cadet, had 531 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: a perfect four to zero military grade. And you know, 532 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: I thought I had the place figured out, and then 533 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: I had And I won't get into the details because 534 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: I actually, like all of the people now, you know, 535 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: in retrospect, life changes. But I had a classmate that 536 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: kind of turned in two classmates for something really stupid, 537 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: Like I still think he made the dumbest decision ever 538 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: and my two classmates that he turned in. You know, 539 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: a girl and a boy are not allowed to sit 540 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: on a bed together. These two were dating, but the 541 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 2: dude had pneumonia, was in bed and she was like 542 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: fully clothed. She sat down on the bed to feed 543 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: him chicken suit, so technically violating the rule, but they 544 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: were not. 545 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: Screwing around or anything, and she was helping him. She 546 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: was helped. Yeah, she was. She was on CQ duty. 547 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: So anyway, he turns him in for that because it 548 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: was a violation and he was just one of those 549 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: guys and they get in a lot of trouble. And 550 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: so I wrote him a letter like an idiot that 551 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 2: was pretty harsh, and he of course turned that into 552 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: the regimental commander, who's a lieutenant colonel, regimental tactic officer 553 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: who's a lieutenant colonel, and that lieutenant colonel decided I 554 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: was the worst person in the world. And so I 555 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: ended up on two months room restriction. I had to 556 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: walk eighty hours. 557 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: You know. 558 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: My roommate also wrote a letter, so we were both 559 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 2: trapped together. It was a very bad time where he 560 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 2: made it clear, this colonel made it clear that like 561 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: he wanted me out of West Point. So I had 562 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: this fear. 563 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: You know, this is the most frustrating thing about the 564 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: military to me is some of these stupid, stupid rules. 565 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: Now I mean the military, and you know, when you're 566 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: an officer, whether you're an officer enlisted, really that discipline 567 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: is the core of any great military unit. Like we 568 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: get that rules were in place for a reason, but 569 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: it's this kind of stuff like that I don't miss 570 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: about the military. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and. 571 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: That was the first time I like you really, I 572 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: really felt like one dude was literally targeting me, to 573 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: the point where one night he woke me up at 574 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: two am, like literally hovering over my bed and just 575 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 2: because I was on room restriction and was just like 576 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: just checking to see if you're here, Paul Mashana, just 577 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: checking to see if you're here, Like I was like. 578 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: My roommate was like, holy fuck, did that just happen? 579 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: Like was was a lieutenant colonel just hovering over your face, 580 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: whispering in your ear, And I was like, oh my god, 581 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: I thought I was dreaming because it was so insane. 582 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: So when that. 583 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: Happened, like horrible, it was truly horrible. But I'm glad 584 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: it happened because I was holding the institution up on 585 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: this pedestal and it deserves. Like I still think that 586 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: if if you are if you are like minded, like 587 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: if you have the mentality where you want to go 588 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: into the military, I don't think there's a better place. 589 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: Not to say that other places aren't great, but like 590 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 2: I really do value the institution and recommend it to 591 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: young people, but it shattered the idea that the place 592 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: was perfect, because while I actually do think I deserve 593 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 2: to get in trouble for kind of teeing off on 594 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: this kid, even though I think he was he made 595 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 2: a douche move. It was very clear I wasn't the 596 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 2: worst person, you know, Like literally a week later, me 597 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: and the dude were fine, but the institution decided I 598 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: went from four to zero, perfect kid to a problem. 599 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 2: And not only that, but like my tactical officer, who 600 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: was a captain about a captain promotable made major shortly thereafter. 601 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: He had been using me as his poster boy for 602 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: a year and a half and he threw me up 603 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: under the bus in a second, like all of a sudden, 604 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: it was like, we can't trust Nick to do this. 605 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 2: We can't trust Nick to do that, and like, you know, 606 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 2: like I kept score, you know, And is. 607 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: That what was that like for you, Nick, Because like 608 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: obviously you graduated and did you so the lessons that 609 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: you took from West Point clearly that was one of them, 610 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: you know. 611 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think that impacted my That impacted 612 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: my career and why I got out too. I'll be 613 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: honest with you, because, like I look at my son 614 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: right now, and and to like, my son is is 615 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: a lieutenant. He is he's had he was fortunate and 616 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: just got the chance to uh to do gold bar 617 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: recruiting at college, so he got like a bonus six 618 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: months of college and and now he's literally heading to 619 00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: to Bullock today and he he has only had good leadership. 620 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: I'm not joking. Like he was at app State and 621 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 2: their ROTC program is phenomenal, great leaders and then you know, 622 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 2: he just spent the last six months at UNC and 623 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 2: they're the colonel in charge of their program is a 624 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: stud Like he comes home and tells stories about his 625 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: days and I'm like, I like, I would have killed 626 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: for this kind of leadership. 627 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: And this dude is you know, he's he's. 628 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 2: Ranger regiment, multiple combat men, but like but really like 629 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 2: even keeled and thoughtful, and so his standard is these 630 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 2: guys mm hm. Whereas by the time that I was 631 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: hitting a unit, I already distrusted the officer corps like 632 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 2: I really did. 633 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: I was like, but do you think that those those 634 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: those lessons warts and all even the bad ones, I 635 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: mean obviously they shaped who you became as sure, And 636 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: do you think that those experiences made you a better 637 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: officer when you were a opportunely, I. 638 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: Do because I think that if if West Point had 639 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: gone perfectly for me, that I would have maybe ignored 640 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 2: one of the things that my dad had said early on. 641 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I talked about my dad a lot, 642 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: like I was. 643 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: Very blessed to have parents, both my dad and my 644 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 2: mom that you know, like no one's perfect, but they 645 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 2: were damn close. And my dad was just like, look, 646 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: you're going to go in the military. You're going to 647 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: have a lot of pressures. It's going to feel like 648 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: everything is life or death. But don't do anything that 649 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: you can't where you can't sleep well at night, because 650 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: the worst thing that happens is they kick you out. 651 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: And I was like, you know what, like like after 652 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 2: everything that happened there, it was like, yeah, like it's 653 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 2: not the end. And I carried that with me like 654 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 2: when I was when I was lieutenant a captain, like 655 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want to say I didn't 656 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: give a fuck because anybody that says any anybody that 657 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: says that in the military is lying, because these people 658 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 2: can make your life a living hell. That being said, 659 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 2: if the colonel was like, hey, does anybody have a 660 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: problem with this? And I had a problem with it, 661 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: I'd be like, I've got a problem, even if even 662 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: if everybody else was like, don't say anything, because like 663 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: I looked at it like that is literally why I 664 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 2: am employed. I am employed not because you know you 665 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: know this, like officers are not the most tactically proficient, 666 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 2: We're not the best at any of the jobs. We're 667 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 2: not smarter, you know, Like we're there because our job 668 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 2: is supposed to be to keep like the moral backbone 669 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 2: of the organization. Like fundamentally that is that is what 670 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 2: officers are supposed to do. So like if your officers 671 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 2: are selling other officers other you know, their soldiers out 672 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 2: left and right in order to get it, like, they're 673 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 2: not doing their job because their job is not the 674 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 2: other stuff. 675 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's what. That's what And part part of a 676 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: leader's job is to cultivate an environment where people feel 677 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: like they can speak up and talk. And one of 678 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: the things that one of the things that bothered me 679 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: about the officer corps in general is how many people 680 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: who just weren't willing to do that, they played the 681 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,959 Speaker 1: game to get good evaluations so that they can climb 682 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: the ladder, you know, and I say this this phrase 683 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: all the time. But I had a lot of great 684 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: leaders in the military too, So I just want to 685 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: put that out there people that I love dearly, but 686 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: I saw way too many leaders. And many of these leaders, 687 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, Nick stayed in the military because they know 688 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: how to play the game. But these people were focused 689 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: strictly with their bow and rarely ever their wake, and 690 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: so you know, they would go from unit to unit, 691 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: leaving a pathway of destruction behind them, but somehow they'd 692 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: get promoted above zone all the time. And so, like you, 693 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: that sort of disenfranchised me from the military as well, 694 00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: because I was a guy that went in intending to 695 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: make a career. But after after getting my first experience 696 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: with with combat and thinking like, well, okay, my nine 697 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: lives are up, like that's not as nearly as cool 698 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: as I thought it would be. But also I just 699 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 1: I couldn't play the game anymore. 700 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And and like you, I had I had some 701 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 2: great leaders also, I like, you know, I still you 702 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 2: know this this guy Bob Curtin, He's the best boss 703 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 2: I've ever had still, And it's funny he when he 704 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 2: was he was my boss, and then he went off 705 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 2: to cag Selection and did that for a while. And uh, 706 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: but Bob, back in the day I'm talking about like 707 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: two thousand, two thousand and one time frame, Bob was like, 708 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 2: you know, when I get out, all I want to 709 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: do is teach history and coach wrestling. And Bob now 710 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: runs like he he lives an hour away from me. 711 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 2: He's coaching one of the best programs you know in 712 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 2: the state of North Carolina. And I bring my daughter 713 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 2: to his wrestling camp every summer because they just have 714 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 2: a great thing. And it's like he's living is great, 715 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 2: and I just what I think about great bosses, like 716 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 2: you know, Bob Curtin is as good as they come. 717 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 2: So I also had positive experiences. I don't want to 718 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 2: come off as this guy that's like the military is 719 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 2: bad and right, But the problem with the military versus 720 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 2: a civilian job is like if you have a bad 721 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 2: boss in the military, like you almost have no recourse, 722 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: you know, because because these guys, these guys that are bad, 723 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 2: they are very good at framing. So like, you know, 724 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 2: I was definitely the lieutenant that had the reputation for 725 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: like stepping forward, stepping on it however you. 726 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: Want, like me too. 727 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 2: Every everybody knew I was going to be honest. So 728 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: the frame, the framing, you know, to the colonel would 729 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: be like, hey, you know, oh, he's just a you know, 730 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 2: he's he's a good guy, but he's you know, but 731 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 2: he's he's a little bit of an asshole and he's 732 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 2: just this is just lieutenant stuff you need to beat 733 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 2: out of him. Meanwhile, he's hiding like you know something terrible. 734 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 2: Like I tell this story because I want to. I 735 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 2: want to frame how bad my first boss was. 736 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: And I don't. 737 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 2: I don't talk about any of my other bosses this 738 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: way because looking back, it's real easy to throw stones 739 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: and and I didn't. I didn't realize how imperfect I 740 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: would be as a leader. So you know, I don't 741 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 2: throw stones at anybody but my first boss. You know, 742 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 2: I can. I can joke about the other guys. But 743 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 2: I only had this guy for two and a half months, 744 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 2: so he never rated me, and I technically didn't work 745 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: for him. Right, Yeah, But I show up and I'm 746 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 2: supposed to be taking a platoon halfway through a CMTC rotation, 747 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 2: and I'm supposed to spend a week in the talk 748 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 2: a week shadowing the old lieutenant and then I'm supposed 749 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 2: to take over. And the very first day that I 750 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 2: am in, I literally I walk into the talk. They 751 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 2: give me like, hey, you're going to do this, I'm 752 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 2: working the board whatever, and this NCO walks in. I 753 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 2: don't know this guy. He ends up being in my platoon, 754 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 2: but I don't know him at the time. 755 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 1: Certaint G. 756 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 2: Certaint G comes in with what who would become my 757 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 2: platoon sergeant and he's like, you know, hey sir to 758 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: the company commander. 759 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: Hey, sir, my. 760 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 2: I just found out my mom is dying and I 761 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 2: would like to go home to see her. And this 762 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 2: motherfucker goes like he does. He gets in the stance, 763 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 2: he's making the eye contact. I think he's about to provide, 764 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,439 Speaker 2: you know, console him and do the right thing. He says, 765 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 2: certaint G. Are you a nurse, no, sir, Are you 766 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 2: a doctor? No, sir. It's like, well, there's nothing that 767 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 2: you can do for your mom, But what you can 768 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 2: do is you can help your squad achieve expert in gunnery. 769 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? 770 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 2: Nope, I'm not kidding you. So Sergy leaves and me 771 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 2: literally the first day on the job with this guy's like, sir, 772 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 2: like we can't do that, like this is and he's like, well, 773 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about. Blah blah blah, 774 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 2: gunnery is this that? And I was like, Sir, I 775 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 2: don't want to be in this position on the first 776 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:40,879 Speaker 2: day on the job. 777 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: But like. 778 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 2: Like if we don't solve this, I got to go 779 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 2: to the battalion commander. 780 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's. 781 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 2: How that's how my that is how my relationship started. 782 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 2: So like this is this is my army experience. So 783 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 2: when people are like, you know, how is it different 784 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 2: for your you know, for your son versus you don't. 785 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 2: I don't think that would happen now. 786 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like, let me let me tell you. Like 787 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: I I was. I always I had the reputation for 788 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: being the guy that spoke up, probably a little bit 789 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: too much, right, but in combat, Like the way that 790 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: I would think this through would be like, Okay, if 791 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: if I got a mission tasking from my boss to 792 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: go set up a traffic control point in eastern Afghanistan 793 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: to interdict the enemy whatever, I would look at that 794 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: mission and if I had an objection to it, the 795 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: first thing that I would say is am I just 796 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: saying this because this somehow makes me uncomfortable. I'm lazy. 797 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: I just don't want to do it. If the answer 798 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: to that question was no, the second phase of that 799 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: question was like, is this mission going to get somebody hurt? 800 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: And if I thought, I mean like negligent, I mean 801 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: to a certain extent. If you're a battlefield commander, there's 802 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: always gonna be a certain level of risk involved in 803 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: any mission. But you know, I think it's part of 804 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: our job as leaders to evaluate that risk and if 805 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: there's ways that we can mitigate it, we should do 806 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: those things. And if if in order to do those 807 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: things you have to raise an objection to your to 808 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: a commander, you got to do it. And I just 809 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: never wanted to be the guy nick like sixty seventy 810 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: years old looking back and thinking to myself, Oh Jesus, 811 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: I wish I wish I would have said something, because 812 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: so here you are. You stick up for this guy 813 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: to your to your commander or to your your your 814 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: boss at the time. Ye two questions about that. Obviously, 815 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: that probably hurt your relationship with your boss. But but 816 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: but what did that do with the enlisted guy that 817 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: you were defending well, he didn't. He didn't hear it. 818 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: He didn't hear it. 819 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,799 Speaker 2: The only guys that the only guys because he left 820 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 2: because he because he got dismissed. I wasn't going to 821 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 2: have that conversation in front of the guy, like I 822 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,800 Speaker 2: wouldn't do that to I wouldn't have done that to 823 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 2: the commander. The only guys that heard it were the 824 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 2: senior NCOs and the XO that were in the talk. Now, 825 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 2: it ultimately got back to him, so that in a 826 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: way that was good for me because then our relationship 827 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 2: was was better. But yeah, like I wasn't trying to 828 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 2: put him on blast like I just I just thought, like, hey, 829 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 2: if I approach him with this, he'll probably see the 830 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 2: error of his ways because it's so insane. But he 831 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 2: did not. It was like I became the enemy, like 832 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 2: he tried. You know, I can get into it, but 833 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: I don't want to just bitch like shit happens. We 834 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 2: all have bad, bad things of course. Next Yeah, my 835 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 2: next boss was was much better. Like he was he 836 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 2: was a good human being like all of us. He 837 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 2: had faults, but like he was a good human being 838 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 2: that was trying to do the right thing. But man, 839 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 2: like the between the colonel at West Point and that dude, 840 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 2: it was like, you see, like the trajectory of my 841 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 2: view of officers tank. It just tanked hard. And and 842 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 2: it wasn't until I had Bob Curtin and I, you know, 843 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 2: keep bringing this guy up. But it wasn't until I 844 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 2: had him that I was like, you know what, maybe 845 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 2: this place isn't that bad, because like he was a 846 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 2: dude like I almost couldn't keep up with in terms 847 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 2: of doing the right thing, like always doing the right thing, 848 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 2: even the tiny stuff like you know, like maybe you're 849 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,279 Speaker 2: in the motor pool or something and you're you know, 850 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 2: it's like we can do this tomorrow or we you know, 851 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 2: like Bob's not doing it tomorrow right now. 852 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: So you have you have all of these experiences in 853 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: the military. Good leaders, bad leaders. You're a leader yourself. Ultimately, 854 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: the any experience that you have with a leader shapes 855 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: the kind of leader that you'll be. You make the 856 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: decision to get out Nick right, and how do you so? 857 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: God the company ranger up right? Like, how how soon 858 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 1: after you got out did you realize that that was 859 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: going to be something that you were going to do? 860 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 2: So it was not the intention like I have the 861 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 2: weird you know, so every buddy after me had this 862 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 2: vision of like building a brand and like doing that 863 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 2: for a living. That was not my situation. 864 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: Like I got out. 865 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 2: I went to Duke University for grad school, which was 866 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 2: very weird. It was very weird leaving the military and 867 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 2: going right to academics. 868 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,319 Speaker 1: I did the same thing. 869 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,800 Speaker 2: And you're just like, it's it's surreal. 870 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: It's like you're Billy Madison in first grade. You know, 871 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: It's exactly how I felt. 872 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 2: I still remember, like one of the most ridiculous experiences, 873 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 2: and this isn't true anymore, like you know, so, like 874 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 2: you know, I'm actually it Just to be very clear, 875 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 2: I'm extremely pro you know, women in any mos Like 876 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,360 Speaker 2: I think it's a good decision. I was one of 877 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 2: the first people to like positively, you know, write about 878 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 2: women in ranger school and how that was a good 879 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 2: thing and you know all these things. 880 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but. 881 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 2: You know, so I'm in this class and it's a 882 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 2: leadership on one class and like business leadership or whatever, 883 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 2: and we're doing a case study. You remember those where 884 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 2: they for those of you that don't know a case study, 885 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 2: they kind of give you like a problem set like 886 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 2: these are the relationships, this is the business problem that 887 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 2: needs to be solved. And the problem was around like, 888 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,800 Speaker 2: you know, a woman that didn't think that she was 889 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 2: properly promoted, and like an organization that was against her, 890 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 2: and and so like I'm just listening, and you know, 891 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 2: women in the class are talking about their experiences and 892 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 2: guys are talking about their experiences dealing with women, and 893 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 2: like kind of like the challenges there. It was a 894 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 2: good conversation and I'm not saying anything. And the instructors like, 895 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 2: you know, Nick, we'd love to give you a military perspective. 896 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 2: We'd love to get a military perspective on this. How 897 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 2: did you deal with these situations? And I was like 898 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 2: I didn't have these situations. I was infantry, and like 899 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,879 Speaker 2: he was like, well what do you mean. I was like, well, 900 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 2: I was infantry. So like my first day coming into 901 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 2: the job, you know, I meet forty dudes and one 902 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 2: of them's like, hey, sir, you know we're the Combatives platoon, 903 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 2: Like do you want to you know, roll with us? 904 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 2: And like again they didn't realize that I was a 905 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,359 Speaker 2: lifetime martial artist. So I was like I straight up 906 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 2: played it dumb. I was like, yeah, like what's this 907 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 2: combative is all about? And then I basically just tapped 908 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 2: out like twelve dudes in a row. And then and 909 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,920 Speaker 2: then after that, it was like, you know, I had 910 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 2: hero status for a little while, but I basically told him, like, yeah, 911 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 2: so on the first day, I met my you know, 912 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 2: forty guys that worked for me, and I submission fought 913 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,839 Speaker 2: my whole platoon and like and you could have heard 914 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 2: a pin drop and I wasn't like I still was 915 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,719 Speaker 2: in like army mode, So it wasn't like I was 916 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 2: trying to like put on a show. You know, I 917 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 2: was just answering his question. 918 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: You were just talking as if you were talking to 919 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: colleague in your platoon office or something like that. 920 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 2: But like it like when I tell you that, you know, 921 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 2: it was the first week or the second week, and 922 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,040 Speaker 2: I put it ended up putting this much distance between 923 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 2: like me and my other classmates because at that time. 924 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 2: Now business programs really value the military as an experience, 925 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 2: and you'll typically see now in the top business schools 926 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,840 Speaker 2: eight to ten percent of the class comes from a 927 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,439 Speaker 2: military background. I think for my class, we had three 928 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 2: three people and I was the only one in that class, 929 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,400 Speaker 2: so like we were an anomaly. 930 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. I remember when I was running for Congress, 931 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: I had like, because people don't understand people don't understand 932 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: the infantry. They just don't understand the culture. They don't 933 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: understand I mean, they don't understand that that it was 934 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,800 Speaker 1: just men, you know. So I had a tendency on 935 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: the campaign show to say, my men, my men, my men. 936 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 1: Why had these like fat, gross, like Antifa slobs show 937 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: up at a couple of my events, And you know, 938 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:04,800 Speaker 1: I'd be like, hey, you know, I was lucky to 939 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: have served with my men, Like I wouldn't be here 940 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: without them. I said that at every stump speech, and 941 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: these these people were like protesting, like, well what about 942 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,919 Speaker 1: the women? You hate women? I'm like, no, yeah, yeah, 943 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: I just didn't have women in my unit, like it 944 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,759 Speaker 1: was the and but the complicating thing about the whole 945 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: all it was is that there are women in the 946 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: infantry now, and so it was like, but back then 947 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: there weren't. And so it just it just you know, 948 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,760 Speaker 1: that experience like Antifa protesting events like whatever, they're all losers. 949 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,239 Speaker 1: But but but it was that it really dawned on 950 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 1: me then that people don't really understand not only what 951 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,840 Speaker 1: it means to be in the military, but especially the infantry. 952 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, they think they do from watching movies, but no, 953 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 2: I mean it's like, you know, like I talk about 954 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 2: this a lot because it's it's so indicative of the 955 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,879 Speaker 2: ridiculousness of the job, like when you really think about 956 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,800 Speaker 2: you know, in uh, you know, when the Coast of 957 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 2: War kicked off, we were one of the first units 958 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 2: into that conflict, and we were we had to provide 959 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 2: security for like six towns, and we decided to set 960 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 2: up on this hill because it had good overwatch and 961 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 2: it was easy to defend. And the only building available 962 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,279 Speaker 2: was an embalming station next to this Orthodox church. So 963 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 2: you know, we set up in this embalming station, which 964 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,839 Speaker 2: of course is gross just to start with, right, Yeah. Yeah, Well, 965 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 2: the first time it rains, we find out that there 966 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 2: are rats living in the roof and that the roof 967 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 2: is not very good, and it just starts raining rat 968 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,399 Speaker 2: feces on top of us. And you know, being infantrymen, 969 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 2: like I have all these pictures because you know, there 970 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 2: were no digital anything back then. You know, I have 971 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 2: all these pictures developed of like you know, guys like 972 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 2: are brown, they're doing push ups and rat feces we're 973 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,480 Speaker 2: collecting it in like plates, you know, like you know, uh, 974 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:12,800 Speaker 2: like how explain that? But like and and people don't understand, 975 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 2: Like it was like why did you call someone? Like 976 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 2: there's no want to call, Like it's us. 977 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,960 Speaker 1: We've and then you know what did we do? 978 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:24,440 Speaker 2: Like we went into town, we procured wood, we procured plastic, 979 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,160 Speaker 2: we procure like we fixed the roof. 980 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 1: Did any of us know how to fix the roof? 981 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 2: Of course not, you know, but like we didn't want 982 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 2: rat feces raining it and my platoon sergeant's uh solution 983 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 2: for the rats. I'll still I'll always remember this as 984 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 2: one of the scariest, horrible, funniest things I've ever seen. 985 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,759 Speaker 2: Is he got a he borrowed a industrial vacuum from 986 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:50,439 Speaker 2: Brown and root. 987 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 1: We cut a hole in the roof. He crawled in 988 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,719 Speaker 1: and you just heard like and he's just like and 989 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,279 Speaker 1: like sucked him all up up into this thing. And 990 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,600 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean I something tells me that your 991 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: grad school class isn't going to really understand no comprehension. 992 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there and their their leadership experience was like 993 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 2: I was an associate brand manager, you know, for one 994 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 2: of the four thousand P and G brands in New 995 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 2: York City, and I had one assistant. 996 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, yeah, the situations that you 997 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,320 Speaker 1: find yourself in in the military. I mean, I have 998 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: hundreds of stories like this that not only do I 999 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: not think about them, you know, unless I'm talking to 1000 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,920 Speaker 1: somebody like you, like, they don't really come to the 1001 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,840 Speaker 1: forefront of my mind most most of the time, you know, 1002 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,800 Speaker 1: But you find yourself in these unbelievable leadership situations that 1003 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,680 Speaker 1: no other circumstance in the world, no other job in 1004 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,080 Speaker 1: the world, would ever have you in a moment like that. 1005 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,080 Speaker 1: And so here you are, like you're in business school 1006 00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: and and you you stumble in or you know, you 1007 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,560 Speaker 1: don't stumble into it, like you find you create this 1008 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 1: company called Ranger Up. And let me give you my 1009 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,120 Speaker 1: as an outsider looking in, because you served just a 1010 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,400 Speaker 1: little bit before me, I think our service overlapped for 1011 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,479 Speaker 1: a time. I guess we're about like, as you mentioned, 1012 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: we're the same age. But I watched the creation of 1013 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,800 Speaker 1: this company, Ranger Up, and let me let me tell you, 1014 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 1: like my perception of this, and I remember seeing some 1015 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 1: like obscure ad on Facebook about it about like it's 1016 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,200 Speaker 1: an apparel company, And then I saw the couple of 1017 00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,400 Speaker 1: these videos come out like shit veterans say on YouTube, 1018 00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 1: And what that company really represented to me as a 1019 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: veteran and a guy that was just about to make 1020 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:46,120 Speaker 1: the transition out of the military, was less of an 1021 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,360 Speaker 1: apparel company. Even though I love the designs. I rocked 1022 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,120 Speaker 1: your T shirts. I liked the company name Ranger Up, 1023 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,520 Speaker 1: it was less about apparel to me and more about 1024 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: buying into a mindset of being a veteran, whether you're 1025 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:04,879 Speaker 1: in the military still or transitioning out. And I don't 1026 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,840 Speaker 1: know what it was. It seemed like part of the brand. 1027 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,600 Speaker 1: A lot of the people that you and some of 1028 00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 1: the people that I met that worked with Ranger Up 1029 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,960 Speaker 1: like kind of have a chip on your shoulder. You know, 1030 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,560 Speaker 1: we volunteered for this. We're volunteers. We're not victims, like 1031 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: you're buying into a mindset. And that company, really, nick 1032 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: was the first of its kind. I think groundbreaking in 1033 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,880 Speaker 1: many ways because now you see all sorts of veterans 1034 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,880 Speaker 1: a peril companies popping up. I think the most popular 1035 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,040 Speaker 1: of which now is like black Rifle Coffee now right 1036 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,319 Speaker 1: like it, but even their branding, even their branding though 1037 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 1: in the way that they communicate in their marketing and 1038 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,160 Speaker 1: their YouTube presence, I think Ranger Up paved the way 1039 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:48,880 Speaker 1: for all of that. 1040 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, I want to let me 1041 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 2: just pause and say, like, in no way, shape or form, 1042 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,560 Speaker 2: am I taking credit for the success of Black Rifle 1043 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,680 Speaker 2: or Grunt Style or nine Lines. 1044 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:04,759 Speaker 1: I hope I didn't, you know. 1045 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 2: I just I like to be abundantly clear because I 1046 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,760 Speaker 2: know how hard all of those guys worked to build 1047 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 2: amazing brands. 1048 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, of course, like and I'm thrilled 1049 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:15,279 Speaker 1: for them. 1050 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:20,120 Speaker 2: I do think that that we gave a blueprint for 1051 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 2: others to. 1052 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,479 Speaker 1: Improve, absolutely right, you know, and you were the first 1053 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:25,080 Speaker 1: range was the first. 1054 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,880 Speaker 2: Yep, and it you know. But for me, and this 1055 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,200 Speaker 2: is kind of where I was going before. So you 1056 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 2: know how Ranger Up really started is when I was 1057 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,440 Speaker 2: at Duke, I was volunteering with the ROTC, and I 1058 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 2: continued to do that after I graduated. So I taught 1059 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 2: UH small units small unit tactics courses and I started 1060 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 2: with another guy a combatives program. So five am the 1061 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,080 Speaker 2: ROTC kids and anybody that wanted to. We'd be in there, 1062 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 2: you know, grappling or striking or whatever and like so 1063 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,440 Speaker 2: it was kind of cool. There was like a four 1064 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,640 Speaker 2: or five year period where the guys that were in 1065 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,040 Speaker 2: our program were winning the combative like the Lieutenant Combatives 1066 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,400 Speaker 2: Championship that they do at the time was iobc like 1067 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 2: every year, you know, because we were just really like 1068 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 2: beating on them and teaching them like a lot of 1069 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 2: you know, so they were they were doing some pretty 1070 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 2: high level grappling at the time. 1071 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,200 Speaker 1: But I had graduated. 1072 00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,800 Speaker 2: I was working for a fortune one hundred company John 1073 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,200 Speaker 2: Deere that was local, but I was still doing this 1074 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,560 Speaker 2: and so one day, you know, I show up and 1075 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 2: I'm training and one of the kids is like, man, 1076 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,800 Speaker 2: like I wish we had some cool T shirts we 1077 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 2: can wear. And I was like, what do you mean. 1078 00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,080 Speaker 2: He's like, well, you know, everything that I've looked for 1079 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 2: military wise is like skulls and snakes and death from 1080 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 2: above and like, and he was like, you know, I'm rotc. 1081 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,000 Speaker 2: Like I don't want to you know, front that like 1082 00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 2: I'm a badass. Plus that's not really my thing, but 1083 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,520 Speaker 2: something that it's like a little more low key, that's 1084 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:05,360 Speaker 2: like patriotic that represents my connection to the military would 1085 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:11,200 Speaker 2: be cool. So I went to Michael's and with Microsoft 1086 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,640 Speaker 2: Paint made some silly shirts that were like military centric, 1087 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,440 Speaker 2: and he transferred them on and I gave them to 1088 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:18,160 Speaker 2: my students. 1089 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: Get out of here. 1090 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,880 Speaker 2: That's how it started. I was like, and they were like, 1091 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 2: you know, this is really this is really good. I mean, 1092 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:29,280 Speaker 2: your art's terrible, You're a terrible artist, but like you 1093 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,520 Speaker 2: should hire somebody that can actually draw. 1094 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:32,800 Speaker 1: They can actually do art. 1095 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 2: So I was like at the time, you know, I 1096 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 2: John Deere is an amazing company, Like they truly are 1097 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,840 Speaker 2: an amazing company. But I don't know if you've ever 1098 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,040 Speaker 2: seen the movie Rounders. 1099 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,120 Speaker 1: No, no, but oh of course I know all about it. 1100 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:47,720 Speaker 1: But yes, there's a great scene. 1101 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,600 Speaker 2: There's a great scene in the movie Rounders where this 1102 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,680 Speaker 2: Jewish Jewish professor is talking about why he didn't become 1103 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 2: a rabbi because he was supposed to his knowledge, you know, 1104 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,720 Speaker 2: of the Old Testament, you know, like surpass everybody else. 1105 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,240 Speaker 2: That was the pathway he was on. And he said, 1106 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,240 Speaker 2: no matter even though I knew everything, no matter how 1107 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 2: much I understood it and could do it well, I 1108 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,240 Speaker 2: never saw God there, and I think about that all 1109 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,640 Speaker 2: the time when I make life decisions, and I don't 1110 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:31,320 Speaker 2: I don't take it literally, but do I is this 1111 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 2: where I want to spend the limited time that I 1112 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,400 Speaker 2: have on this planet? And so, like, I don't think 1113 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,160 Speaker 2: you could run a large corporation better than John Deere 1114 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,479 Speaker 2: runs it, like they treat people well, they are good, 1115 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 2: like the mission is good. And despite all of that, 1116 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,840 Speaker 2: despite the fact that I liked all my coworkers, I 1117 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 2: liked the mission, I was miserable. I just I was 1118 01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,680 Speaker 2: a cog in the machine and it was a great machine, 1119 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,440 Speaker 2: but it wasn't my machine, and so I needed something 1120 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:06,080 Speaker 2: to feel like I was doing something meaningful. So I 1121 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 2: started my hobby. I mean literally, like there was no 1122 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,720 Speaker 2: point where I was like, I'm going to be like 1123 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 2: a full time entrepreneur. I started this hobby. And then 1124 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:21,200 Speaker 2: it was crazy because I started getting messages from you know, 1125 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,160 Speaker 2: guys that were deployed. It was like, man, I needed this. 1126 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,280 Speaker 2: I started getting messages from guys that were suicidal that 1127 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 2: were like, can we just talk? And so it wasn't 1128 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,320 Speaker 2: about money at the beginning at all. It was like 1129 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,360 Speaker 2: reconnection with the community that I valued and when I 1130 01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:45,200 Speaker 2: think about this, you know, because now I'm heavily involved 1131 01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,080 Speaker 2: in a lot of things, including the Independence Fund, which 1132 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 2: which has really made massive progress, like one of the 1133 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,480 Speaker 2: few organizations that is starting to crack the nut on 1134 01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:06,400 Speaker 2: suicide prevention with their Operation res. People need tribe and 1135 01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,720 Speaker 2: they need purpose. And when you're in the military, no 1136 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,720 Speaker 2: matter whether you loved it or whether you bitch about 1137 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,760 Speaker 2: it all the time, like we had tribe, I mean, 1138 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 2: nobody can argue that, Like if somebody had a problem 1139 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,760 Speaker 2: in the unit, maybe they got smoked for doing something stupid, 1140 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,560 Speaker 2: but they're still you still have a group solving that 1141 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 2: problem with you. There's no greater purpose than defending the country. 1142 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 1: And you think that, I mean, I I god, man, 1143 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. And do you think that 1144 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,640 Speaker 1: Ranger Up started at that critical time, at the height 1145 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,640 Speaker 1: of really nick two wars in Iraq Afghanistan were raging 1146 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,240 Speaker 1: at the time, and you think that, I mean, this 1147 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,400 Speaker 1: was always my sense too, was that it really did 1148 01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,680 Speaker 1: bring the veteran community together at a time where I 1149 01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,439 Speaker 1: think that they needed it most. 1150 01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,840 Speaker 2: I you know, I hate I don't want to give 1151 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,360 Speaker 2: myself that much credit, but I will say that for 1152 01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:07,960 Speaker 2: me it gave me purpose and it rebuilt my tribe, 1153 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,600 Speaker 2: and I think it did that for a lot of 1154 01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,560 Speaker 2: people and that that is what will always be meaningful. 1155 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,240 Speaker 2: Like I never it was really weird and people found 1156 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:26,880 Speaker 2: it weird. But like when grunt Style like exploded and 1157 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,360 Speaker 2: started doing really well and they were like, oh, you know, 1158 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,520 Speaker 2: like they tried to almost get on my side against them. 1159 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,560 Speaker 2: I was always like, you don't, like I'm happy for them. 1160 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,120 Speaker 1: This is a big this is a. 1161 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:44,040 Speaker 2: Big pond, and you know, they're employing veterans and they're 1162 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,000 Speaker 2: they're doing good stuff, and like, you know, like it's fine, 1163 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,720 Speaker 2: you know, like well don't you want to beat them? 1164 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,640 Speaker 2: Like yeah, like you know arbitrarily, like you know, I 1165 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,680 Speaker 2: would like to sell one more T shirt a year 1166 01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 2: than they do. But like I also I also don't care, 1167 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:01,920 Speaker 2: you know. So it was like, hey, if you like 1168 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,600 Speaker 2: grunt Styles doing this or nine Lines doing this, we 1169 01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,960 Speaker 2: should do this because we can capture their market here. 1170 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,600 Speaker 2: You know. I was like, I'm not trying to capture 1171 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,280 Speaker 2: their market, Like what is the thing that we are 1172 01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 2: going to do that's different, Like let's just do our 1173 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,200 Speaker 2: thing and not worry about what they're doing. That's not 1174 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,760 Speaker 2: everyone's mentality that is that is my mentality. 1175 01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,600 Speaker 1: It's actually, Nick, it's not. I will tell you. Like 1176 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,480 Speaker 1: being in this in the space, whether it's like as 1177 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,360 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur or a public figure, you meet a lot 1178 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,960 Speaker 1: of people, especially especially in politics, by the way, on 1179 01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,120 Speaker 1: both sides, on both sides of the aisle yep, that 1180 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,360 Speaker 1: don't understand the concept of a rising tide lifts all ships. 1181 01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,480 Speaker 1: The fact that Ranger Up, Yes, you were the first, 1182 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,680 Speaker 1: but you look at the butterfly effect of what Ranger 1183 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:53,120 Speaker 1: Up created and it's set the conditions for what was 1184 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,280 Speaker 1: possible for veterans who come home from war that hey, 1185 01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,520 Speaker 1: you can still be a warrior, that will always be 1186 01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,720 Speaker 1: part of who you are, a be part of your soul, 1187 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,400 Speaker 1: and you can do a lot of other great things. 1188 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,040 Speaker 1: And when you know, Grunt Style and nine Line and again, 1189 01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,360 Speaker 1: like I said, Black Rifle Coffee and all these other 1190 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: veteran owned companies stood up and we're doing great things. 1191 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I think it showed veterans that you know, you don't 1192 01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,200 Speaker 1: have to come home and you know it just it 1193 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,520 Speaker 1: just upsets me sometimes the stereotype that's promulgated in our 1194 01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,240 Speaker 1: society of veterans who come home from war and are broken. 1195 01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:29,800 Speaker 1: You know, I used to, like when I first started 1196 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,760 Speaker 1: campaigning or even just meeting some of these politicians, and 1197 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,680 Speaker 1: again this is Democrats or Republicans would talk to me 1198 01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:39,400 Speaker 1: as if I were broken, like oh, oh, welcome home. 1199 01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 1: So I'm like, what are you talking about? Why are 1200 01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,800 Speaker 1: you looking at me? Like yeah, I'm fine, Get off, 1201 01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:44,760 Speaker 1: like get off of me. 1202 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:45,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1203 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,360 Speaker 1: And then you see these monuments of veterans like taking 1204 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,640 Speaker 1: a knee and like looking up like as if forlorn. 1205 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a second, there's still a mission going on. 1206 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: You still have value, like take a knee, drink water, 1207 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,600 Speaker 1: face out, and let's do great things together. 1208 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,640 Speaker 2: I do some work with SVA Student Veterans of America 1209 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,160 Speaker 2: and they have access to tons and tons and tons 1210 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:13,240 Speaker 2: of data. And here's what the data says. Veterans do 1211 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,360 Speaker 2: better than people that have not served in literally every aspect. 1212 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,200 Speaker 2: So veterans make more money, Veterans make more money, Veterans 1213 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,440 Speaker 2: are more educated, Veterans get better grades while in school. 1214 01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,600 Speaker 2: Veterans get higher paying jobs. Like the list goes on 1215 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:34,720 Speaker 2: and on and on. What happens is we do have 1216 01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:39,040 Speaker 2: a small percentage of our population that is disaffected that 1217 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,840 Speaker 2: doesn't transition well and rightfully, there are a lot of 1218 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:48,360 Speaker 2: nonprofits that focus on these people because they deserve to 1219 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:54,720 Speaker 2: be helped. But the media really enjoys the narrative of 1220 01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 2: a broken veteran, and movies really enjoy the next exactly 1221 01:06:58,960 --> 01:06:59,640 Speaker 2: broken veterans. 1222 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 1: I was just I mean, why I mean, which is, 1223 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,560 Speaker 1: of course, I know, a very complicated, you know, and 1224 01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:08,760 Speaker 1: multifaceted question. 1225 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 2: But my guess, and then this is only a guess, 1226 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:18,640 Speaker 2: is that people, you know, assume that war is the 1227 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:24,120 Speaker 2: worst imaginable thing, which is accurate. They they imagine themselves 1228 01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,520 Speaker 2: in that situation, and they imagine themselves being broken by 1229 01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:31,360 Speaker 2: that situation. But what I have seen is, I mean, 1230 01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,959 Speaker 2: there are cases where that happens. But what I've seen 1231 01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:39,360 Speaker 2: is the people that I've watched that have fallen apart, 1232 01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,720 Speaker 2: that have that have killed themselves, or that you know, 1233 01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:47,520 Speaker 2: have have become dependent on drugs or any of these 1234 01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,080 Speaker 2: other things that that you know, kind of set yourself 1235 01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,800 Speaker 2: up for a downward spiral. It's not because of the 1236 01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,520 Speaker 2: things that they did overseas. It might be because of 1237 01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,800 Speaker 2: the things they witnessed with their friends, but most of 1238 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 2: the time it's a lack of purpose. It's a lack 1239 01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,720 Speaker 2: of try. Gosh, it's just like, you know, there's a 1240 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,120 Speaker 2: you know, hopefully you've seen First Blood, which is a 1241 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,320 Speaker 2: more course, so you know, there's that scene at the end, 1242 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,160 Speaker 2: which I think was important to the Vietnam generation but 1243 01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:23,599 Speaker 2: still applies now. It's like, this dude is like, back there, 1244 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,200 Speaker 2: you know, I was responsible for millions of dollars of equipment. 1245 01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:32,120 Speaker 2: Back there, I you know, I was a general. Back there, 1246 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,439 Speaker 2: I had all this responsibility. I was respected, and here 1247 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,639 Speaker 2: I can't, you know, I can't do anything. I can't 1248 01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,679 Speaker 2: get a job. I can't get a And I think 1249 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,560 Speaker 2: that there is a group of people that feel that 1250 01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:51,160 Speaker 2: way and they don't have support around them. But I 1251 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,800 Speaker 2: also think, and I bring this up a lot, I 1252 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 2: also think that they forget that where they got in 1253 01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:00,960 Speaker 2: the military. So I use rangers as an example, but 1254 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,800 Speaker 2: this applies to literally any any job, high level job, 1255 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:09,519 Speaker 2: or high level school. Nobody graduates ranger school the first 1256 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,320 Speaker 2: day in the military right to you go to basic training, 1257 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,600 Speaker 2: then you go to a t then you go to 1258 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,080 Speaker 2: your unit. You get some experience. You know, you have to, 1259 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:22,320 Speaker 2: you know, to go to ranger school. Generally, people have 1260 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,680 Speaker 2: to be junior leaders. So you're an E four or 1261 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,280 Speaker 2: you're an E five, maybe you go to you know, 1262 01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,679 Speaker 2: PLDC or whatever it's called. Now, you go to pre ranger, 1263 01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,600 Speaker 2: you go to Airborne school, and then finally you go 1264 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,400 Speaker 2: to ranger school after you know, years of preparation building 1265 01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,840 Speaker 2: up to this moment, and we still only graduate, you know, 1266 01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,759 Speaker 2: a quarter to a third of those. 1267 01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:51,480 Speaker 1: People, right, you know, yeah, yeah, But it's like everyone. 1268 01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,000 Speaker 2: Forgets that when it comes to the civilian world, and 1269 01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,639 Speaker 2: they're like, well, I made seventy grand, you know when 1270 01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,599 Speaker 2: I was in the military, and the the best job 1271 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,320 Speaker 2: that I have offered is forty five fifty grand, Like 1272 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,400 Speaker 2: I'm being done wrong. Well, no, you're just at basic training, 1273 01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:15,280 Speaker 2: like you have to. You have to build some skills that, 1274 01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,240 Speaker 2: you know, show people that you can do more than 1275 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,240 Speaker 2: be a soldier, be a marine or be whatever. 1276 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,240 Speaker 1: And some people have a real. 1277 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,519 Speaker 2: Problem when I say that, like I shouldn't have to 1278 01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,280 Speaker 2: do that. And so when they push back, I say, 1279 01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,679 Speaker 2: all right, well, let's flip the script on that. Let's 1280 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,640 Speaker 2: say I'm a coo of a you know, of a 1281 01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 2: mid sized company, one hundred million dollar company, right, I'm 1282 01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,800 Speaker 2: an Operations King, and I say, you know what, I 1283 01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,840 Speaker 2: want to join the military, and they're like, great, you 1284 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:52,639 Speaker 2: know you can come in as as a specialist because 1285 01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:56,600 Speaker 2: you have a college education. And I say, no, no, no, 1286 01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,280 Speaker 2: here's what I want. I would like to be the 1287 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Brigade XL because that's commensurate with what I'm doing. I 1288 01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:09,680 Speaker 2: had the job I had before. You'd laugh your ass off, 1289 01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,240 Speaker 2: You'd be like, like, you don't know anything, but we 1290 01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:15,479 Speaker 2: expect it to be different the other way around. 1291 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:21,640 Speaker 1: Nick, It's so fascinating what you're talking about, because you know, 1292 01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,600 Speaker 1: there's and there's so much to it. You know the 1293 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:28,519 Speaker 1: fact that veterans do come from a very prestigious warrior culture. 1294 01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:30,599 Speaker 1: I think the best military of the world has ever known. 1295 01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:32,880 Speaker 1: And then they come out, they come out and like 1296 01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,559 Speaker 1: maybe they're like, you know, like you said, working at 1297 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:39,439 Speaker 1: John Deere an amazing company, you know, but still maybe 1298 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,360 Speaker 1: lacks the purpose that you had in the military where 1299 01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,240 Speaker 1: life and death is on the line. You're surrounded by 1300 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,720 Speaker 1: people that you know, to a certain extent, would give 1301 01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:49,639 Speaker 1: your life for you. So like it's it's so that's 1302 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,640 Speaker 1: that's a tough transition in and of itself. But what 1303 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,200 Speaker 1: what I find all the time, and I struggle with 1304 01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,200 Speaker 1: this too, is that the older I get, the more 1305 01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:04,640 Speaker 1: difficult is to allow myself to be a beginner. And 1306 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,280 Speaker 1: I even have to find like, you know, just even 1307 01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,040 Speaker 1: this podcast as a perfect example, like come Out of 1308 01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,160 Speaker 1: the Military, five books, out, Run for the House, Run 1309 01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,080 Speaker 1: for the Senate, have a national charity doing all this stuff. 1310 01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,280 Speaker 1: The podcast is something that's brand new. I was also 1311 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,600 Speaker 1: afraid to start it a little bit because it was 1312 01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:27,280 Speaker 1: brand new, and I have to find myself every day 1313 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,360 Speaker 1: saying you know what, like it's okay, you're allowed. You 1314 01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:34,080 Speaker 1: got to start somewhere, and just always constantly having that 1315 01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,599 Speaker 1: inner dialogue with myself about allowing myself to be a beginner, 1316 01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 1: because whether you're in the military or not, the order 1317 01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:41,200 Speaker 1: you get it's harder to do. 1318 01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I get it, and I definitely I definitely 1319 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 2: used to have that. I don't care anymore. 1320 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:56,400 Speaker 1: So You're so you've always been like You're like, do 1321 01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,320 Speaker 1: you remember bag, Like when I was running, So I 1322 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,600 Speaker 1: was running this is like my first campaign, and I 1323 01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,360 Speaker 1: text you and I'm like, oh, some some douchebag journalist 1324 01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,040 Speaker 1: is writing a story about her interview. You're like, so 1325 01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,600 Speaker 1: what I'm like, yeah, but but he's he's being a 1326 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,439 Speaker 1: jerk and he doesn't really understand what we were talking about. 1327 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,920 Speaker 1: You're like, who cares? And like there's something to that. 1328 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:22,720 Speaker 1: There's why am I? Why am I creating all of this? 1329 01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:25,599 Speaker 1: You know, man that cares? Who cares? 1330 01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:29,799 Speaker 2: You can't You can only control what you can control. 1331 01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,360 Speaker 2: And like I just have found over and over again 1332 01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,800 Speaker 2: when I try to control other people, when I try 1333 01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,160 Speaker 2: to control what they think, when I try to control 1334 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:43,360 Speaker 2: what they say, one it never works, Like it never worked. 1335 01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 2: Like people are gonna in the same way that I'm me. 1336 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,400 Speaker 2: Like those people are them right, and whatever they believe, 1337 01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:51,439 Speaker 2: they believe, they're not going to change it, you know. 1338 01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:56,439 Speaker 2: So like expending energy on that is a waste of time. 1339 01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,559 Speaker 2: And I like, I absolutely hate talking about Stowe now 1340 01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,080 Speaker 2: because it's so in vogue. 1341 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:06,120 Speaker 1: It's so I know, everybody everyone's a stoic getting like 1342 01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:09,920 Speaker 1: the little tattoos, like yeah about it. Yeah. 1343 01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:15,480 Speaker 2: So I started the first time I read Marcus Aurelius Meditations. 1344 01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,320 Speaker 2: I think I was like eleven or twelve, and I 1345 01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:18,519 Speaker 2: was trying my dad. 1346 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,080 Speaker 1: My dad is a big fan. 1347 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,000 Speaker 2: Of that book in particular, and I wanted to read 1348 01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 2: the book. 1349 01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,240 Speaker 1: My dad was reading, of course, and I did. 1350 01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,800 Speaker 2: I didn't really understand it then, but it's a book 1351 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,280 Speaker 2: that I've carried around for a long time. I've read 1352 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,479 Speaker 2: It's probably the only book Meditation is probably the only 1353 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,880 Speaker 2: book that I think I've probably read fifty sixty times. 1354 01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:43,680 Speaker 2: And what I love about that book in particular, and like, 1355 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,439 Speaker 2: I think stoicism is a great guiding principle. Like all things, 1356 01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,360 Speaker 2: there are holes in its game. But is this dude 1357 01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:56,320 Speaker 2: was like the most important person on planet Earth. You know, 1358 01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:58,719 Speaker 2: he was he was the emperor. He was the emperor 1359 01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,960 Speaker 2: during a war. He's the emperor while while people are 1360 01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:05,519 Speaker 2: trying to kill him, his wife dies, all of this 1361 01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,479 Speaker 2: really serious stuff is happening that you know, nothing that 1362 01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,439 Speaker 2: happens in our lives will compare to what this comb 1363 01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,120 Speaker 2: is closed exactly, And he's just keeping this even keel 1364 01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,680 Speaker 2: and and so like I always, you know, it's it's 1365 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,240 Speaker 2: not about like being a stoicism bro, which I can't 1366 01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,360 Speaker 2: believe is a thing, you know, And props to props 1367 01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,760 Speaker 2: to my boy Ryan Holiday for making that a thing, 1368 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:30,400 Speaker 2: because he did. 1369 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,400 Speaker 1: He did making a thing. 1370 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:37,759 Speaker 2: Ryan Holiday single handedly built stoicism bros. 1371 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:44,120 Speaker 1: So like it's the Stowbrough. 1372 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ryan Holiday built the Stowbroughs. So if I if 1373 01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,240 Speaker 2: I get hit for being like the godfather of the 1374 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:54,560 Speaker 2: vet Bro, Ryan Holiday is the godfather of the Stowbrough. 1375 01:15:54,680 --> 01:16:02,080 Speaker 2: So that being said, I just think like we have 1376 01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,360 Speaker 2: enough to worry about in our present lives that like 1377 01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,920 Speaker 2: worrying about other people. And I always like, you know, 1378 01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,160 Speaker 2: I have this conversation with a couple of my friends 1379 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,960 Speaker 2: and they're like, well, you know, you should send this 1380 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,280 Speaker 2: email to so and so. So there's a trail so 1381 01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,920 Speaker 2: that there's this, so there's that, And I'm like, listen, 1382 01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:24,599 Speaker 2: if I'm ever like on the stand talking about this stuff, I'm. 1383 01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:25,479 Speaker 1: Just going to tell the truth. 1384 01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,800 Speaker 2: And like, well the truth is ridiculous, Like yeah, that's fine, 1385 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:33,960 Speaker 2: Like like this crazy person did this. This crazy you know, 1386 01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,840 Speaker 2: we did this. This was our reaction. Like well, you know, 1387 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:38,680 Speaker 2: but what if people don't believe you, like then they 1388 01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,280 Speaker 2: don't believe me, Like that's not my problem. My problem 1389 01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:43,960 Speaker 2: is just like what is present? 1390 01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,599 Speaker 1: I mean, look that that is that is I mean 1391 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,280 Speaker 1: people call it your stowbro or whatever, a mental toughness. Man, 1392 01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:52,360 Speaker 1: where did that come from? 1393 01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:52,640 Speaker 2: In you? 1394 01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,000 Speaker 1: Do you it's it's certainly not something that you learned. 1395 01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,519 Speaker 1: I mean maybe maybe it was refined in the military, 1396 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,960 Speaker 1: but it sounds like something that's just in you. 1397 01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:06,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I got divorced, so you know, I'm 1398 01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,439 Speaker 2: I've been married twice. I have a great marriage right now, 1399 01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,400 Speaker 2: and I was married to a great person in my 1400 01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:17,240 Speaker 2: first marriage. So, uh, my first my first wife, I 1401 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,959 Speaker 2: have two kids with. She was my high school sweetheart, 1402 01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,519 Speaker 2: truly a phenomenal person. We are still very good friends. 1403 01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:30,080 Speaker 2: I love her husband. Like we have an idyllic divorce. 1404 01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,280 Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome, But no. 1405 01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,200 Speaker 2: Divorce is idyllic when it's happening. 1406 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,920 Speaker 1: So oh really really, yeah, you. 1407 01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:42,320 Speaker 2: Wouldn't know about that. You wouldn't know about that. Probably 1408 01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:50,479 Speaker 2: nothing's ever happened to you it involves divorced. So, you know, 1409 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,519 Speaker 2: when I got divorced, you know, I was in my 1410 01:17:54,080 --> 01:18:00,439 Speaker 2: early thirties, and man, it was rough, like because up 1411 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,240 Speaker 2: until that point I had been in like in my head, 1412 01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,040 Speaker 2: I had done everything right. You know, I went to 1413 01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,120 Speaker 2: a good school, I served in the military. I was 1414 01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,880 Speaker 2: infantry you know, ranger tab like like I did like 1415 01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:14,240 Speaker 2: I you know, I did all the things, and then 1416 01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,000 Speaker 2: I get into Duke and I get this fortune one 1417 01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,479 Speaker 2: hundred gig and like, you know, if you look at 1418 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:23,240 Speaker 2: the America checklist that they feed you when you're in 1419 01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:30,639 Speaker 2: grade school, Like I was crushing it. And I think 1420 01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,600 Speaker 2: divorce is harder when you know the other person is 1421 01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:39,080 Speaker 2: a good person, Like I like, even during divorce, I 1422 01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,640 Speaker 2: really liked my ex wife and she liked me, but 1423 01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:48,920 Speaker 2: we were not meant to be married. And so but 1424 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,760 Speaker 2: regardless of the fact that we were very kind to 1425 01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:57,600 Speaker 2: each other through the process, our friend group just decided 1426 01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:04,760 Speaker 2: that they had to pick sides, spread rumors, be a 1427 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,880 Speaker 2: little bit, you know, spiteful. It's human nature. Like I don't, 1428 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:15,240 Speaker 2: I don't pass judgment on it. It's human nature. But 1429 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,720 Speaker 2: that added to like the stress of going through the 1430 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,400 Speaker 2: divorce and the stress of like how do I make 1431 01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,240 Speaker 2: sure my kids, you know, who were one and three 1432 01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,320 Speaker 2: at the time, how do I make sure that they 1433 01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,679 Speaker 2: go through this unscathed? Like my ex and I would 1434 01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:34,760 Speaker 2: talk about like we're never gonna we're never gonna say 1435 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,320 Speaker 2: anything bad about each other. We're never gonna like that. 1436 01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:42,120 Speaker 2: We we we made like these rules and but like 1437 01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,920 Speaker 2: the background, like it was soul crushing, like to the 1438 01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,200 Speaker 2: point where you know, for the first time of my life, 1439 01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,120 Speaker 2: like I actually hated myself and it was like, man, 1440 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,240 Speaker 2: now I can look at it and say, like, hey, shit, 1441 01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:01,240 Speaker 2: two young people got married. They they wanted the same 1442 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,680 Speaker 2: thing when they got married in their early twenties, and 1443 01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,639 Speaker 2: then like by the time they were third. 1444 01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,720 Speaker 1: Like they different visions for what their life was that 1445 01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:09,519 Speaker 1: didn't mesh. 1446 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,760 Speaker 2: Like this is if I was giving someone advice, it'd 1447 01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,080 Speaker 2: be like easy advice to give, but like at the time, man, 1448 01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:21,920 Speaker 2: like I've never had suicidal ideation because I've always just 1449 01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,560 Speaker 2: like maintained like I have responsibility to my kids, I 1450 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,000 Speaker 2: have responsibility to my family. I'm not gonna leave it. 1451 01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,920 Speaker 2: But that would be as close as I've come to 1452 01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:35,120 Speaker 2: like kind of thinking, like, man, maybe I don't want 1453 01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:39,559 Speaker 2: to be around anymore. And so when I came out 1454 01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,799 Speaker 2: of that, and how I like, straight up I stopped 1455 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,680 Speaker 2: drinking during that period of time because I'd never had 1456 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:48,920 Speaker 2: an issue with alcohol, but like, during that time I 1457 01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:53,040 Speaker 2: was drinking so much like when I didn't have my kids. 1458 01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:54,559 Speaker 2: If I had my kids, I didn't drink at all. 1459 01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,200 Speaker 2: But if when I didn't have my kids, which was rare, 1460 01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,840 Speaker 2: I'd kill a bomb with my buddy, you know, and 1461 01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,200 Speaker 2: ten percent of the time I would say something really 1462 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:10,080 Speaker 2: stupid while we were out and offend one of our 1463 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,000 Speaker 2: friends or be a jerk to somebody or and that 1464 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,800 Speaker 2: had never been me, and so I was like, you 1465 01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,280 Speaker 2: know what, like I can't this isn't good, and everybody 1466 01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,479 Speaker 2: around me saying, oh, it's fine, You're just going through 1467 01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:23,720 Speaker 2: some stuff. You know, everybody does this. And at some 1468 01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,880 Speaker 2: point I was like, that's an excuse. That's unacceptable. So 1469 01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,240 Speaker 2: I stopped drinking. I just started running. Anytime I felt 1470 01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:31,120 Speaker 2: like shit, I went for a run. I hate running, 1471 01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:34,720 Speaker 2: but it just was like I'm going running, and uh 1472 01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,240 Speaker 2: like I got you know, I just got really healthy. 1473 01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:42,800 Speaker 2: And then you know, I went to therapy, you know, which, 1474 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,080 Speaker 2: like I happily I tell everybody like it's one hundred 1475 01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:46,640 Speaker 2: percent worth it. 1476 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:47,000 Speaker 1: I went to. 1477 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:51,920 Speaker 2: Therapy kind of you know, outlined everything that was going 1478 01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,280 Speaker 2: on in my head, and I got to a good place. 1479 01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,840 Speaker 2: And then it was like, all right, you know, what 1480 01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,240 Speaker 2: do I need to do in the future to like 1481 01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:03,720 Speaker 2: not be in this situation? Like what do I need 1482 01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,360 Speaker 2: to do in relationships to not be in the situation? 1483 01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,760 Speaker 2: And you know, like once you make that decision, things 1484 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:17,479 Speaker 2: become very clear. So then it's like ninety percent of 1485 01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 2: the reason why I was mentally unhealthy during that period 1486 01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:27,320 Speaker 2: of time is that I allowed opinions of other people 1487 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,519 Speaker 2: to carry weight, you know, the only people whose opinion matters, 1488 01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,880 Speaker 2: like you know, to me at the time. Really, if 1489 01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,360 Speaker 2: I really, like, you know, my kid's opinion of how 1490 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:43,240 Speaker 2: their life was going, my ex's opinion as to how 1491 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,640 Speaker 2: like I was handling the situation, and my opinion of 1492 01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:50,960 Speaker 2: those things. There were no other opinions that mattered, But 1493 01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:55,720 Speaker 2: the other opinions carried ninety percent of the stress in 1494 01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,160 Speaker 2: my life. So after I came through that, I just 1495 01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,320 Speaker 2: was like, I don't give a fuck who it is 1496 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,799 Speaker 2: to include my parents who I I treasure my parents, 1497 01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,640 Speaker 2: and I like their advice is very meaningful to me. 1498 01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:12,840 Speaker 2: But like if my my dad was like, I don't 1499 01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,479 Speaker 2: think you should do diesel jack media anymore, Like I'm 1500 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,800 Speaker 2: not gonna stop doing that, Like this is I love 1501 01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:21,400 Speaker 2: doing this, you know. So once I made that decision, 1502 01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:25,800 Speaker 2: life just became much much easier. And it's like so 1503 01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,200 Speaker 2: and so hates you, so and so doesn't like you, 1504 01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:30,639 Speaker 2: so and so thinks that you only did this because 1505 01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:37,439 Speaker 2: of why reason like I don't care, like I don't, 1506 01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:38,840 Speaker 2: I really don't care. 1507 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:41,320 Speaker 1: How did you? But how did you flip that switch? 1508 01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:45,320 Speaker 1: Because you know, I look having been through that a lot, 1509 01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,719 Speaker 1: you know, something similar to myself, and I think anyone 1510 01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,920 Speaker 1: that's watching this probably I had the OJ Simpson trial 1511 01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,000 Speaker 1: of custody trials, So yeah, you know, most people that 1512 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:55,240 Speaker 1: are watching to know that I've been through it. But 1513 01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,160 Speaker 1: like when you're in it, it's it's so hard to 1514 01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:04,040 Speaker 1: see through the emotion and the dust. And you know, obviously, 1515 01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: as you said, like drinking it makes it worse, and 1516 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,160 Speaker 1: so stopping that and focusing on habits that are good, yep, 1517 01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:16,320 Speaker 1: make things better. But how do you just flip that 1518 01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,559 Speaker 1: switch and say I don't really care what other people think. 1519 01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,479 Speaker 2: I you know, sometimes you have to like have pain 1520 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,800 Speaker 2: inflicted on you to really get it. You know, I 1521 01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:31,200 Speaker 2: thought I didn't care what people thought in my early thirties, 1522 01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,000 Speaker 2: but like I can just tell you, like after my 1523 01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:38,320 Speaker 2: after my divorce, I really just don't care because I 1524 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:44,240 Speaker 2: hit rock bottom in terms of emotional emptiness and it 1525 01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,679 Speaker 2: was like, man, like when you really and to be honest, 1526 01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,640 Speaker 2: therapy help with that, you know. But it was like, 1527 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,639 Speaker 2: you know, why did I feel this way? It's because 1528 01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,720 Speaker 2: like I cared about what some woman that was like 1529 01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:02,040 Speaker 2: my ex wife's friend that we weren't really even friends, 1530 01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,640 Speaker 2: but like I thought we had a decent relation. Like 1531 01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:08,680 Speaker 2: she doesn't like me anymore, So like that's affecting me? 1532 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:10,960 Speaker 2: Like how is that affecting me? Like when you start 1533 01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:14,400 Speaker 2: breaking it down, it's stupid. Like even in your case, 1534 01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:17,280 Speaker 2: things are very national. I've had things that are you know, 1535 01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:19,760 Speaker 2: pretty wide as well. It's like, oh, an article was 1536 01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:23,600 Speaker 2: written and you know, like you know, you're this or 1537 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:27,760 Speaker 2: you're that, Like they didn't even talk to me, you know, 1538 01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,920 Speaker 2: they didn't ask my opinion, like you know, like there's 1539 01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,439 Speaker 2: no evidence of this. This isn't what happened. Like I 1540 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,320 Speaker 2: know all these things, So why am I going to 1541 01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:40,200 Speaker 2: like run around worrying about it? 1542 01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,800 Speaker 1: Do you do you think that those Do you think 1543 01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:48,760 Speaker 1: that that experience and the sort of evolution and you're 1544 01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,360 Speaker 1: thinking to where you are now, you think that's helped 1545 01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,120 Speaker 1: you be a better father, better husband? 1546 01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:58,040 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I'll tell you one of the one 1547 01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:00,280 Speaker 2: of the biggest lessons I learned from, you know, and 1548 01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:02,759 Speaker 2: it's my failure. I don't blame my ex for anything. 1549 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:06,080 Speaker 2: Like it's the biggest lesson that I learned from my 1550 01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:12,200 Speaker 2: failure in my first marriage is that in the act 1551 01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:17,320 Speaker 2: of trying to protect feelings, I did a disservice to 1552 01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:17,879 Speaker 2: the marriage. 1553 01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,720 Speaker 1: What I mean by that is like, you know, men 1554 01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:23,519 Speaker 1: grow up, you know, men that. 1555 01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,599 Speaker 2: Are raised properly grow up knowing that it is their 1556 01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:29,960 Speaker 2: job to protect women, It is their job to protect children, 1557 01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:33,439 Speaker 2: like and I and I know that, Like that's probably 1558 01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:35,439 Speaker 2: not a thing that you're supposed to say, but like 1559 01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,040 Speaker 2: it just is, like listen, like that. 1560 01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:39,400 Speaker 1: I believe that's in our DNA. 1561 01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,479 Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a stupid way, Like 1562 01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,240 Speaker 2: I don't mean like picking fights with people you know 1563 01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,840 Speaker 2: for no reason, but like that is how I grew up. 1564 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:55,080 Speaker 2: And we're protectors, yes, but there is there is a 1565 01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,560 Speaker 2: point where that goes too far. And so what I 1566 01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:01,320 Speaker 2: mean by that is like, if I ex did something 1567 01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:06,960 Speaker 2: that bothered me, it was you know, it was the 1568 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,280 Speaker 2: whole happy wife, happy happy life thing like it, I 1569 01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:17,240 Speaker 2: would ignore it, hold it inside, and not address it 1570 01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,800 Speaker 2: because you know, I thought, well, this is it's a 1571 01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,680 Speaker 2: silly thing. So like I'm not gonna I'm just being 1572 01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,360 Speaker 2: a bit right now, But really what it was is 1573 01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:30,120 Speaker 2: it was cowardice. It was cowardice on my part of 1574 01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:36,360 Speaker 2: not addressing something head on. And so you know, with Susie, 1575 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,680 Speaker 2: you know, my wife, like we just kind of made 1576 01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,720 Speaker 2: a deal because you know, she was married before, I 1577 01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:49,280 Speaker 2: was married before, and you know we've now been together 1578 01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:52,200 Speaker 2: for ten and a half years married and you know, 1579 01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:55,519 Speaker 2: twelve years dating or whatever, twelve and a half years. 1580 01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,479 Speaker 2: We just made a deal like, hey, no matter what 1581 01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:02,000 Speaker 2: it is, we're just going to have the conversation immediately. 1582 01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:06,840 Speaker 2: And the result of that is sometimes when I'm mad 1583 01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,000 Speaker 2: at my wife and I tell her why I'm mad, 1584 01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:13,080 Speaker 2: as i'm saying it, I realize I'm really I'm really 1585 01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:17,080 Speaker 2: fucking stupid. Like when you when you put it, when 1586 01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:18,440 Speaker 2: you put it into words. 1587 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you take the when you take the thoughts 1588 01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:22,000 Speaker 1: out of your head, you put it in the words. 1589 01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:23,439 Speaker 1: You're like, wait a second, can can I have a 1590 01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:24,160 Speaker 1: mulligan on that? 1591 01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:26,640 Speaker 2: It also sucks because she's smarter than I am, so 1592 01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:29,800 Speaker 2: like then she like responds, and then you feel really dumb. 1593 01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:34,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm right, you know, but but the right or 1594 01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:37,120 Speaker 2: the wrong doesn't matter. What happens is we both are 1595 01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,799 Speaker 2: forced to be courageous and deal with the problem. 1596 01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:43,400 Speaker 1: And the problem might seem small. 1597 01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:47,240 Speaker 2: It might be like I hate when you leave whatever out, 1598 01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,880 Speaker 2: or I hate when you don't do whatever, Like. 1599 01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't care how dumb it is. 1600 01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:54,160 Speaker 2: But like when you are courageous and you address it, 1601 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,519 Speaker 2: and you address it in a structured manner, and you 1602 01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:01,320 Speaker 2: do it immediately, the emotion leaves situation and then you 1603 01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:04,200 Speaker 2: just ma and then you just deal with it. Whereas 1604 01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:07,600 Speaker 2: with my ex, my my biggest failure was like I 1605 01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:10,280 Speaker 2: held on to all this shit and I you know, 1606 01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,479 Speaker 2: and I won't speak for her, she probably did the 1607 01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,720 Speaker 2: same because we were both trying to like do what 1608 01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:18,800 Speaker 2: we thought was the right thing, and it just got 1609 01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:21,479 Speaker 2: to the point where it was like there was too 1610 01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:26,040 Speaker 2: much shit of that that I never addressed because I 1611 01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:28,479 Speaker 2: was afraid to address it because I didn't think that's 1612 01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:34,040 Speaker 2: what a husband was supposed to do. And I frankly 1613 01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:35,439 Speaker 2: didn't give her enough credit. 1614 01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:39,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Nick, it's it's it's it's so 1615 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,519 Speaker 1: what you're saying resonates with me a lot. I mean, 1616 01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:49,400 Speaker 1: I had made a lot of mistakes in my first 1617 01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:52,680 Speaker 1: my first marriage. You know, it takes two to tango, right, 1618 01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:56,360 Speaker 1: and you know, you try to learn from from those 1619 01:29:56,439 --> 01:29:58,160 Speaker 1: mistakes and grow and be a better person and be 1620 01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,839 Speaker 1: a better husband, be a better father in the future. 1621 01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:06,960 Speaker 1: And I talked about you know, I went on a 1622 01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,559 Speaker 1: show called un PC on Fox News and we got 1623 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,640 Speaker 1: into the whole happy wife, happy life thing, and you know, 1624 01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,760 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I basically said, I don't like 1625 01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,720 Speaker 1: that phrase. And man, man, when I got when I 1626 01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:24,439 Speaker 1: was on, when I was running, that was weaponized against me. Oh, 1627 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,960 Speaker 1: Sean hates women, oh this other stuff. And I just 1628 01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:31,400 Speaker 1: thought to myself, No, I I just think that happiness, 1629 01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,960 Speaker 1: each person's happiness in a relationship has to be a priority, 1630 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,719 Speaker 1: and you have to be able to have the courage 1631 01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,360 Speaker 1: to talk about that stuff with each other. And if 1632 01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:47,120 Speaker 1: just one person's happiness is prioritized, that leads to very 1633 01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:52,080 Speaker 1: very that leads to a bad relationship, bad marriage, unfulfilling marriage. 1634 01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:56,599 Speaker 1: And I don't want that. And and so I mean, 1635 01:30:56,640 --> 01:31:01,120 Speaker 1: I prefer happy spouse, happy house because I think that, yeah, 1636 01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,120 Speaker 1: that's it leads to a more healthy relationship dynamic. But 1637 01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:08,519 Speaker 1: I what you're saying is is fascinating. I Nick, I 1638 01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:12,360 Speaker 1: can't like you have this like super chill vibe about you, 1639 01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:14,720 Speaker 1: Like I don't really care about that stuff, you know, 1640 01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm just like let that, let stuff roll right off 1641 01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:20,519 Speaker 1: your back. But you're super thoughtful about your relationships and 1642 01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:24,320 Speaker 1: absolutely about being a husband, about being a father, about 1643 01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:28,280 Speaker 1: being a leader in business, and like, so, how how 1644 01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,120 Speaker 1: do you have this super chill demeanor to where you 1645 01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,120 Speaker 1: just like let everything roll right off your back? To 1646 01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:39,040 Speaker 1: when Afghanistan collapses. You're literally in that country less than 1647 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:41,760 Speaker 1: seventy two hours after the fall of Afghanistan, trying to 1648 01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,600 Speaker 1: save people. Like how do those two nicks exist in 1649 01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:46,360 Speaker 1: the same world? 1650 01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:52,320 Speaker 2: So you know, first of all, you know, credit to 1651 01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,400 Speaker 2: the whole team that went there. So you know, like 1652 01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,840 Speaker 2: I again, this is a situation where like I was 1653 01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:02,240 Speaker 2: a cog in the machine. And when I think about 1654 01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:07,400 Speaker 2: the leaders in that machine, I think about a pera 1655 01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:15,920 Speaker 2: rescue men named Sean Hurlehy who was communicating with members 1656 01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:19,280 Speaker 2: of our team early before everything went to shit, where 1657 01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,559 Speaker 2: he was basically saying it's going to go to shit, 1658 01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,720 Speaker 2: which got some things rolling. A gentleman by the name 1659 01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:31,120 Speaker 2: of Sean g who was our ground force team leader. 1660 01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:34,519 Speaker 2: This is a dude, Like he's one of the most 1661 01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:39,639 Speaker 2: interesting people I've ever met, you know, like like it's 1662 01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,600 Speaker 2: like you can flick through like photos through time, and 1663 01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:44,719 Speaker 2: it's like he's at all of the major events. 1664 01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, is this guy a vampire? 1665 01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:52,000 Speaker 2: Like I'm not sure? You know, Sarah Verardo who you 1666 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:58,479 Speaker 2: know Sarah is. We probably would all be in prison 1667 01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:00,639 Speaker 2: for what we did if it wasn't for Era making 1668 01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:03,679 Speaker 2: sure that we dotted the i's and crossed the t's 1669 01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:07,439 Speaker 2: and got the right people involved, you know. And then 1670 01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,519 Speaker 2: obviously like my friends, you know, Chad Robashaw and Tim Kle, 1671 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:16,519 Speaker 2: like these people gut things rolling that allowed for the 1672 01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,120 Speaker 2: operation to happen. But I'll tell you you know, we 1673 01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:24,160 Speaker 2: were like all veterans. I was doing what most people 1674 01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:28,360 Speaker 2: were doing, and I was connecting people that I thought 1675 01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,519 Speaker 2: could help each other. I was collecting names, you know, 1676 01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:37,160 Speaker 2: from verified sources of interpreters and like who knew them, 1677 01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:40,479 Speaker 2: and like as much information as possible, what's their WhatsApp number? 1678 01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:42,920 Speaker 1: And I was dumping that into. 1679 01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:50,040 Speaker 2: A spreadsheet that my friend Adam DeMarco with Allied Airlift 1680 01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:56,120 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one was building. And then Chad, you know, 1681 01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:58,960 Speaker 2: was letting us know that, hey, his interpreter was still 1682 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,680 Speaker 2: stuck that they were chased him, they were coming after him. 1683 01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:03,560 Speaker 2: He didn't think he was going to make it. 1684 01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:04,360 Speaker 1: And then. 1685 01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,439 Speaker 2: Tim and I were sitting in Austin, Texas. We were 1686 01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:13,280 Speaker 2: we were finishing what would become Scars and Stripes, and 1687 01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:15,040 Speaker 2: both of our phones. 1688 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,320 Speaker 1: Reach a book by the way as book by the way, Yeah, 1689 01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:19,040 Speaker 1: thank you, guys, just killed it so good. 1690 01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:25,280 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Both of our phones rang simultaneously, literally 1691 01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:29,560 Speaker 2: maybe between like three to five seconds apart, and on 1692 01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:32,120 Speaker 2: the phone with me was Sarah and on the phone 1693 01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,840 Speaker 2: with Tim was Chad Robshaw. And Sarah said, I'm just 1694 01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,280 Speaker 2: going to cut right to it. Will you go to 1695 01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 2: Afghanistan to help people? And Tim was being asked the 1696 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:46,400 Speaker 2: same thing by Chad, and I said, well, like, is 1697 01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:49,679 Speaker 2: this a real mission or is this like I don't 1698 01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,120 Speaker 2: want to go for a photo op? And she was like, 1699 01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,160 Speaker 2: this is a real mission. We've got this guy, Sean 1700 01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:57,599 Speaker 2: g We've got you know. And she starts laying out 1701 01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:01,320 Speaker 2: like that what we had, and I said, all right, 1702 01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:06,080 Speaker 2: let me ask my wife. And Tim did the same thing, 1703 01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:08,040 Speaker 2: and so I called my wife and I said, I'm 1704 01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:10,599 Speaker 2: about to ask you the most ridiculous thing in the world, 1705 01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:14,320 Speaker 2: so bear with me. So, you know, my my wife, 1706 01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:19,240 Speaker 2: you know, watching over our six children. Here's the following. 1707 01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:22,920 Speaker 2: I've been asked to go to Afghanistan to help with 1708 01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:24,600 Speaker 2: the evacuation of civilians. 1709 01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:27,120 Speaker 1: You know, can I go? 1710 01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:31,439 Speaker 2: And I was expecting, like, are you fucking kidding me? 1711 01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:35,479 Speaker 1: Like you know, like you know you are an old man. 1712 01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:41,439 Speaker 2: Instead, instead, she's surprised. She surprised me like she often does, 1713 01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,000 Speaker 2: but she said, this is the worst thing I've ever 1714 01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:47,760 Speaker 2: seen in my lifetime. There's nothing that I can do 1715 01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,360 Speaker 2: to help, and I wish that there was, but you 1716 01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,640 Speaker 2: can help, and Tim can help, and you need to 1717 01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:59,240 Speaker 2: go to which I immediately responded, I didn't realize you 1718 01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,280 Speaker 2: wanted me to die, uh so quickly, you know, and 1719 01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:07,400 Speaker 2: started making jokes, as is my way. But yeah, about 1720 01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,000 Speaker 2: you know, twenty four hours later, Uh, Tim and I 1721 01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:15,160 Speaker 2: were on a plane and uh, you know, and we 1722 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,639 Speaker 2: just did everything that we could in that time period. 1723 01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:24,599 Speaker 2: But you know, it was a I say this all 1724 01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:28,240 Speaker 2: the time. There's there's nothing special about my service. I'm 1725 01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:32,920 Speaker 2: not a cool guy. I'm not an operator badass. I 1726 01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:36,840 Speaker 2: have opportunities because of what I've done in business and 1727 01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:39,120 Speaker 2: because I'm a known quantity to a lot of people 1728 01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:44,400 Speaker 2: of basically coming through and so you know, people are like, 1729 01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:46,439 Speaker 2: why did you get asked and not me? I was like, 1730 01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,120 Speaker 2: I have no idea, I was underqualified compared to so 1731 01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:55,160 Speaker 2: many people, including yourself, and how about that and h nick. 1732 01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,720 Speaker 2: But but sometimes and this is where let me I 1733 01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:02,880 Speaker 2: was going with my point. Sometimes, like to do things 1734 01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:06,240 Speaker 2: that are meaningful, you have to say yes, even when 1735 01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:08,920 Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know what the fuck I'm getting into. 1736 01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:12,880 Speaker 2: And that's you know, I mean, that is that is 1737 01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,160 Speaker 2: what happened there. That is what happened with Ranger Up, 1738 01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,760 Speaker 2: that is what happened with the movie Range fifteen, That's 1739 01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:21,760 Speaker 2: what happened with Diesel Jack Media, That's what's happened with 1740 01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:24,160 Speaker 2: anything in my life that I really value. Is like, 1741 01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:27,439 Speaker 2: sometimes you just have to say yes and figure it out. 1742 01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:32,040 Speaker 2: And so I was. I will always be proud to 1743 01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:34,439 Speaker 2: have played a small part in the in the mission 1744 01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:35,439 Speaker 2: to save those people. 1745 01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:39,120 Speaker 1: It was. It's one of the worst things I've ever seen. 1746 01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:41,920 Speaker 1: It's one of the most emotional things I've ever seen. 1747 01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:45,760 Speaker 2: You know, I said this in the in the documentary 1748 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,080 Speaker 2: that we made about it, and I'll say it again 1749 01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:55,960 Speaker 2: I've never been more proud of Americans and less proud 1750 01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:59,400 Speaker 2: of our government. And that is that is what that 1751 01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:04,160 Speaker 2: moment will always be for me. Is individual Americans, veteran 1752 01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:08,400 Speaker 2: the veteran, the entire veteran community, civilians, everybody stepped up 1753 01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:11,120 Speaker 2: and did literally everything they could to help while our 1754 01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:15,880 Speaker 2: government really did not. Wow. 1755 01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:22,160 Speaker 1: I yeah, I I don't even know what to say 1756 01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:27,479 Speaker 1: other than I watching all that happen. You know, this 1757 01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:31,080 Speaker 1: is I was at the height of the Senate campaign, 1758 01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:33,720 Speaker 1: and I think I just had Trump's endorsement and like 1759 01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:36,280 Speaker 1: we were like the front runner by twenty points. And 1760 01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:40,679 Speaker 1: this was both before all of the custody trial drama. 1761 01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:45,640 Speaker 1: But ye, I like immediately started hearing from my interpreters 1762 01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:48,040 Speaker 1: who were left behind and who were being hunted down, 1763 01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,200 Speaker 1: like the Kandas that we had worked with out on 1764 01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:54,400 Speaker 1: the frontier, like an RC East Afghanistan. Those are guys 1765 01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:57,840 Speaker 1: who like really committed fighters who were just stuck, stranded, 1766 01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,439 Speaker 1: cut off and called for help, got no respet were 1767 01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:04,120 Speaker 1: getting run over by the Taliban. Everything happened so quickly, 1768 01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:07,479 Speaker 1: so quickly, the President of Afghanistan like wheels up on 1769 01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,719 Speaker 1: a C one thirty with like eighty million dollars cash. 1770 01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And 1771 01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,280 Speaker 1: just as I process all of this, you're already there, 1772 01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:22,960 Speaker 1: like you were already on the ground, and so are you. Remember, 1773 01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:27,519 Speaker 1: Like I'm like texting you text identifying information of all 1774 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,360 Speaker 1: of these interpreters, like can you please get my guys out? Ye? 1775 01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,160 Speaker 1: And then and then there was a suicide bomber at 1776 01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:37,760 Speaker 1: at at the airport, and then all these reports of 1777 01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:41,200 Speaker 1: the Taliban throwing up these roadblocks and you know, so 1778 01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:42,800 Speaker 1: that the people that were trying to get to the 1779 01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:44,880 Speaker 1: airport would have to go through them, and if they 1780 01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,320 Speaker 1: had any sort of American ID, they were executed on 1781 01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:50,200 Speaker 1: the spot. If they were texting Americans on their cell phone, 1782 01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,679 Speaker 1: they were executed on the spot. I'm never in my life. 1783 01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:55,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean literally, I was sitting at a 1784 01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:58,719 Speaker 1: desk just like this, with like my phone, my computer 1785 01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:01,960 Speaker 1: or another phone, just text people like crazy, trying to 1786 01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:05,040 Speaker 1: coordinate from the United States and with you boots on 1787 01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:07,760 Speaker 1: the ground there getting people either. It was the most 1788 01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:12,559 Speaker 1: chaotic thing that I think, one of the most chaotic 1789 01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:13,880 Speaker 1: things that I've ever been a part of. And I 1790 01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,920 Speaker 1: speak as somebody who's been in close ambushes with the enemy. So, 1791 01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:20,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never seen anything like that. 1792 01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:21,160 Speaker 2: It was insane. 1793 01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:24,519 Speaker 1: How do we find her? How does America? How do 1794 01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:27,599 Speaker 1: we find herself in a situation like that after twenty 1795 01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,880 Speaker 1: years where even Nick, all the intelligence that we had 1796 01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:34,000 Speaker 1: leading up to that, said that, hey, you know, the 1797 01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:36,880 Speaker 1: Afghan National Army, the candecks that we trained there, they 1798 01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,439 Speaker 1: were ready, they were proficient, they could fight the enemy 1799 01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:41,960 Speaker 1: if need be. The Afghan National Police, yeah, well they 1800 01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,240 Speaker 1: needed a little bit of work, but they're getting there. 1801 01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:47,559 Speaker 1: The Afghan Border Police, same thing. What the hell happened? 1802 01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:52,840 Speaker 2: It's above my pay grade, but I will I will 1803 01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:57,519 Speaker 2: give I'll give my assessment of what I think happened. 1804 01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,559 Speaker 2: And all of this is about to come out because 1805 01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:03,280 Speaker 2: there'll be hearing soon and a lot of this is 1806 01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:07,280 Speaker 2: now starting to become public. But you know, the d 1807 01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:11,280 Speaker 2: D recommendation was not cobble. It was bogram, which is 1808 01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:14,080 Speaker 2: what every soldier on the on planet Earth thought was 1809 01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:24,880 Speaker 2: the right answer. For whatever political reason, Millie's recommendation, you know, 1810 01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:30,360 Speaker 2: was not taken, and instead Sex State was taken and 1811 01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:37,080 Speaker 2: State had the mission, and it was cobble. And I 1812 01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:39,719 Speaker 2: know for a fact that there were some knockout, drag 1813 01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:44,560 Speaker 2: out arguments about this, and I believe that is is 1814 01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:50,840 Speaker 2: now public. And so Cobble was run by state essentially 1815 01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:54,680 Speaker 2: as an embassy, so there was no outer perimeter. There 1816 01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:58,240 Speaker 2: was only the wall, just like you know, we've all 1817 01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:00,639 Speaker 2: seen the movie where the American citizen and is running 1818 01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:03,800 Speaker 2: to the US embassy like hold American, American and the 1819 01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:07,519 Speaker 2: you know the Russian Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Russian guys 1820 01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,040 Speaker 2: chasing them and then like the gate closes and like 1821 01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:12,200 Speaker 2: the Russian guy spits on the marine. 1822 01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:14,600 Speaker 1: Through the game. We've all seen that. So but that 1823 01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:17,519 Speaker 1: that's essentially what we had where. 1824 01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:23,639 Speaker 2: And I am very worried, as are many people at 1825 01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,960 Speaker 2: the all of the soldiers and marines that had to 1826 01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:32,040 Speaker 2: stand on those walls because they watched people get murked, 1827 01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:36,559 Speaker 2: they watched people get trampled, they watched kids being killed, 1828 01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:41,240 Speaker 2: they watched a guy get lit on fire. They watched 1829 01:42:41,439 --> 01:42:46,000 Speaker 2: some terrible, terrible things and they could not affect it. 1830 01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,920 Speaker 2: And there is something inherently wrong with like, you know, 1831 01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,280 Speaker 2: we joined the military to protect. I don't care why 1832 01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:54,960 Speaker 2: you came in. I don't care if you joined for 1833 01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:57,360 Speaker 2: the money. I don't care if you joined because you 1834 01:42:57,400 --> 01:43:01,640 Speaker 2: needed opportunity whatever. However, you you came in like at 1835 01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:07,439 Speaker 2: some point during basic training, like you acquired pride in 1836 01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:13,280 Speaker 2: what you stood for, and they didn't get to do 1837 01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:17,200 Speaker 2: that job, and they had to watch atrocity while not 1838 01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:21,559 Speaker 2: being able to help. Whereas our team, you know, whether 1839 01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:24,080 Speaker 2: it was guys like me that were loading planes or 1840 01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,840 Speaker 2: guys like you know, Sean g and Tim Kennedy that 1841 01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:31,960 Speaker 2: were running outside the wire really seeing everything up close 1842 01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:40,280 Speaker 2: and personal, we were doing something. We were making a difference, 1843 01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:43,519 Speaker 2: and so the moral injury for us is not the 1844 01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:47,879 Speaker 2: same as the moral injury for those six thousand soldiers 1845 01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,720 Speaker 2: and marines that were told to stand a post and 1846 01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:54,880 Speaker 2: essentially watch the end of free Afghanistan. 1847 01:43:56,560 --> 01:44:01,320 Speaker 1: So why did I get the sense? And look, I 1848 01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:04,080 Speaker 1: don't know if this is true, and I don't know 1849 01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:06,479 Speaker 1: if you know if this is true, But why did 1850 01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:09,519 Speaker 1: I get the sense that not only were those young 1851 01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:13,240 Speaker 1: soldiers forced to watch all of that horrific shit happen 1852 01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:16,479 Speaker 1: and not be able to do anything? Well, why did 1853 01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:20,400 Speaker 1: I get the sense that their command in the State 1854 01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:24,320 Speaker 1: Department were actually throwing up roadblocks to people like you 1855 01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:27,479 Speaker 1: who are trying to get our allies out of there. 1856 01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:32,560 Speaker 1: Am I am I completely wrong in that assessment or 1857 01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:33,519 Speaker 1: is there any truth to that? 1858 01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:37,880 Speaker 2: So it's a mixed bag, you know. I will tell 1859 01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:44,120 Speaker 2: you that Chairman Milly was absolutely critical in our mission happening. 1860 01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:48,760 Speaker 2: He gave us every resource possible. I will tell you 1861 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:53,360 Speaker 2: that Senator Tillis leaned so far forward that if anything 1862 01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:57,120 Speaker 2: had gone wrong, he would be and you know, his 1863 01:44:57,360 --> 01:45:03,639 Speaker 2: career would probably be in trouble. There were a number 1864 01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:06,960 Speaker 2: of people like that. There were also a number of 1865 01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:12,840 Speaker 2: people that were content to just let this happen and 1866 01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,960 Speaker 2: then be done with it. I cannot speak, like I 1867 01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:19,200 Speaker 2: do not want to be the guy that's guessing who 1868 01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:23,400 Speaker 2: thought what. You know, we had an incident that we 1869 01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:26,040 Speaker 2: talked about and send me where you know, a colonel 1870 01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:29,519 Speaker 2: shut down one of our operations, and everybody asks like, 1871 01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:31,760 Speaker 2: why don't you name the colonel? Why don't you, you know, 1872 01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,720 Speaker 2: drag this guy on social media? And my reason for 1873 01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:38,960 Speaker 2: not dragging him I know the guy first of all, 1874 01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:41,479 Speaker 2: like I've known him for a long time. That's not 1875 01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:43,919 Speaker 2: the reason. I don't have a problem dragging people. 1876 01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:44,040 Speaker 1: That I know. 1877 01:45:44,840 --> 01:45:51,280 Speaker 2: But the decision was out of character for him, and 1878 01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:55,600 Speaker 2: so I don't know, like, was he just being a 1879 01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:59,560 Speaker 2: bastard that day, or did he know that there was 1880 01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:02,760 Speaker 2: a bomb threat because the bomb happened shortly thereafter and 1881 01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:05,560 Speaker 2: was worried that the bomb was on there? Was he 1882 01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:10,400 Speaker 2: getting uh you know, was he ordered by state by 1883 01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:13,080 Speaker 2: the you know, there's a rumor that the ambassador gave 1884 01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:16,320 Speaker 2: the order like don't let him on, Like was he 1885 01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:19,080 Speaker 2: given that order? Like is it on him? You know, 1886 01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:21,920 Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of questions now you can still 1887 01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,000 Speaker 2: come back to, like was that order lawful and all that, 1888 01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:26,960 Speaker 2: But to me, it's. 1889 01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:31,840 Speaker 1: Like that's a heavy cross to bear man only that's heass. 1890 01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:35,040 Speaker 2: Only he knows, only he knows what happened, and so 1891 01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:37,360 Speaker 2: like I thought it was important to tell the story 1892 01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:41,360 Speaker 2: that this incident happened, and you know, there there was 1893 01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:47,400 Speaker 2: a incident report that that we filed about this. Allegedly 1894 01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:50,800 Speaker 2: there's an investigation, though no one but me has been 1895 01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:55,879 Speaker 2: interviewed about it. So that's odd that they have not interviewed. 1896 01:46:56,560 --> 01:46:58,280 Speaker 2: You know. So the guys that we had on the 1897 01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:01,559 Speaker 2: ground are you know, we had we had two former 1898 01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,839 Speaker 2: colonels on the ground. Just FYI, Like the team. 1899 01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:10,799 Speaker 1: That we had has was legit, Yeah, had some swagger. 1900 01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So those guys have not been interviewed, which I 1901 01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:15,599 Speaker 2: find very odd. 1902 01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:20,200 Speaker 1: You know, Nick, you talked about like, Okay, so I 1903 01:47:20,240 --> 01:47:24,600 Speaker 1: I too love our America. I love our country, I 1904 01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:28,479 Speaker 1: love the people. I loathe our government right now. And 1905 01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:33,840 Speaker 1: again this isn't a partisan slight at all. But when 1906 01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:36,240 Speaker 1: all of this was going down, and do you remember 1907 01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:38,360 Speaker 1: the Predator strike and we were told by the Department 1908 01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:40,240 Speaker 1: of Defense that it was a suicide bomber, but it 1909 01:47:40,280 --> 01:47:42,360 Speaker 1: wasn't a suicide bomber. It was actually an Afghan family 1910 01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:45,200 Speaker 1: with a bunch of kids. Like they blatantly lied to 1911 01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:47,479 Speaker 1: the American people because they knew that that wasn't the case. 1912 01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:50,479 Speaker 1: And when I hear that stuff, it makes me wonder 1913 01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:53,479 Speaker 1: did that did someone know there was going to be 1914 01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:56,000 Speaker 1: that suicide bomb attack on the on the airport the 1915 01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, who hell knows? And and the reason why 1916 01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:03,000 Speaker 1: there's this un certainty is because the government has not 1917 01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:07,519 Speaker 1: been transparent or truthful or just open and honest with 1918 01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:10,479 Speaker 1: the American people. And the reason why this bothers me 1919 01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:14,360 Speaker 1: so much, I mean beyond the obvious, is that God Man, 1920 01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:18,439 Speaker 1: we bled the ground red in Afghanistan. I believed in 1921 01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:21,000 Speaker 1: the mission there, you know, Yeah, we killed a lot 1922 01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:23,240 Speaker 1: of enemy there, we did, and that's part. That's certainly 1923 01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,040 Speaker 1: part of the mission, but that obviously not what I'm 1924 01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:28,519 Speaker 1: most proud of. I mean, we built schools, we taught 1925 01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:31,479 Speaker 1: little girls how to read, like humanitarian assistance, We did 1926 01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:34,640 Speaker 1: good things for the people of Afghanistan, and it was 1927 01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:37,560 Speaker 1: all thrown away. And in the end of all of it, 1928 01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,280 Speaker 1: you don't even think that we, the American people, or 1929 01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:44,040 Speaker 1: the men and women who fought there, not just in Afghanistan, 1930 01:48:44,120 --> 01:48:48,400 Speaker 1: but Iraq or anywhere that America sends our sons and daughters, 1931 01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:50,920 Speaker 1: you don't think that we deserve the truth. That really 1932 01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:52,760 Speaker 1: bothered have a real issue with that. 1933 01:48:53,080 --> 01:48:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you make a great point. I always try 1934 01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:58,679 Speaker 2: to be a little careful when I say, like, hate 1935 01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:00,639 Speaker 2: the government. I don't hate the government. 1936 01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:01,040 Speaker 1: Right. 1937 01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:05,439 Speaker 2: It all comes down to individuals. Right, Individuals lie, the 1938 01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:10,800 Speaker 2: government doesn't lie. Individuals lieute. You know, So what I 1939 01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:12,760 Speaker 2: you know? You know, you know that I've got a 1940 01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,640 Speaker 2: podcast coming out soon, like you you know, I'm just 1941 01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:19,320 Speaker 2: jumping back into it. It's called but it's called the 1942 01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:23,120 Speaker 2: neutral position, and the whole purpose of it is I 1943 01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:27,240 Speaker 2: want to have conversations where we have nuanced like this one. 1944 01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:33,080 Speaker 2: You know, I'm enjoying this conversation where you know, we're 1945 01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:37,320 Speaker 2: starting from a neutral position and we are not fixing, 1946 01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:42,840 Speaker 2: uh like, partisan beliefs that we have to have, but 1947 01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:47,160 Speaker 2: instead we actually walk through why we believe something. And 1948 01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:51,360 Speaker 2: you know, I'm hoping that it has a positive effect. 1949 01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:54,320 Speaker 2: And the reason I'm doing it is because of what 1950 01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:59,000 Speaker 2: you just outlined. I don't think, you know, I've seen 1951 01:49:59,160 --> 01:50:04,600 Speaker 2: a more partisan approach to politics in my lifetime, and 1952 01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:06,479 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of reasons for that. I 1953 01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:09,759 Speaker 2: think I think that news programs are not news anymore. 1954 01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:17,120 Speaker 2: They're news tainment. I think that social media is designed 1955 01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:21,439 Speaker 2: to deliver the maximum views, and we tend to react, 1956 01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:24,400 Speaker 2: you know, to things that outrage us. We like to 1957 01:50:24,439 --> 01:50:27,439 Speaker 2: find people that agree with us. We take it very 1958 01:50:27,680 --> 01:50:32,360 Speaker 2: personally if people disagree with us on social media. I think, again, 1959 01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:34,640 Speaker 2: this is a thing where like when somebody disagrees with 1960 01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:37,400 Speaker 2: me on social I can have I'm always nice to people, 1961 01:50:37,439 --> 01:50:42,600 Speaker 2: even if they're being bastards. My reason for that is 1962 01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:47,559 Speaker 2: I don't take this stuff personally. Like sometimes maybe I'm wrong, 1963 01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:50,760 Speaker 2: let me give you an opportunity to tell tell me 1964 01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:51,400 Speaker 2: how I'm wrong. 1965 01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:54,400 Speaker 1: Like, oh, but if you're just gonna call me. 1966 01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:56,360 Speaker 2: An asshole over and over again. Like at some point, 1967 01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:58,479 Speaker 2: I don't want to have this conversation. But like, if 1968 01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:01,960 Speaker 2: you're really fired up about something, you probably have a reason, 1969 01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:07,479 Speaker 2: so explain the reason. I don't think that in government 1970 01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:12,520 Speaker 2: right now, we have people that are working on solutions. 1971 01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:16,880 Speaker 2: We have instead, we have people that are very good entertainers, 1972 01:51:18,080 --> 01:51:22,120 Speaker 2: and they're at the entertainment that they're selling is they're 1973 01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:25,920 Speaker 2: selling sound bites that they can put on Tucker, or 1974 01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:29,519 Speaker 2: they can put on Tapper, they can put on you know, 1975 01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:34,679 Speaker 2: whoever likes the kind of things that they like. Look, 1976 01:51:35,160 --> 01:51:37,360 Speaker 2: let's say that you're a hardcore Democrat and I'm a 1977 01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:41,080 Speaker 2: hardcore Republican, right and we both want to get something done. 1978 01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:46,040 Speaker 2: Fifteen years ago, you and I would talk about it 1979 01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,439 Speaker 2: and we would present a bipartisan thing because we are 1980 01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:52,760 Speaker 2: so far apart normally, but we both agree in this. 1981 01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:55,200 Speaker 2: I don't think that can happen. 1982 01:51:55,000 --> 01:51:56,400 Speaker 1: Now, right, I agree? 1983 01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:01,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, you try to do that now and they're 1984 01:52:01,120 --> 01:52:03,120 Speaker 2: going to call you a rhino. They're going to call 1985 01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:05,200 Speaker 2: you they're going to say you read pilled. You know, 1986 01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:11,120 Speaker 2: you know, I've I've been fortunate to interact with Dan 1987 01:52:11,200 --> 01:52:13,320 Speaker 2: Crenshaw a few times, and I know a lot of 1988 01:52:13,360 --> 01:52:16,840 Speaker 2: people hate him on both sides for different reasons. Right, 1989 01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,680 Speaker 2: Like he's been accused of being a rhino whatever that means, uh, 1990 01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:23,120 Speaker 2: you know, and then you know he's being accused of 1991 01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:26,880 Speaker 2: being you know, far right, you know, maga whatever from 1992 01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:31,040 Speaker 2: the left. But like that dude multiple times has you know, 1993 01:52:31,080 --> 01:52:33,840 Speaker 2: and he just did, I think yesterday, put out you know, 1994 01:52:34,120 --> 01:52:38,040 Speaker 2: a bipartisan bill, and like he's already getting dragged for it. 1995 01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:41,160 Speaker 2: And it's like, listen, art, if you look again, I'm 1996 01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,960 Speaker 2: big on data. You look at the data, Americans agree 1997 01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:49,320 Speaker 2: on eighty four percent of all things. And you compare, 1998 01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:54,960 Speaker 2: if you compare like a liberal in America to a 1999 01:52:55,120 --> 01:52:59,920 Speaker 2: liberal in Europe versus a conservative in America, the liber 2000 01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:02,840 Speaker 2: liberal in America and the conservative in America agree on 2001 01:53:03,000 --> 01:53:05,480 Speaker 2: more than the liberal and the liberal or the conservative 2002 01:53:05,479 --> 01:53:10,439 Speaker 2: and the conservative from Europe. Like we're very close on 2003 01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:14,600 Speaker 2: just about everything, but we are made to believe. 2004 01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:19,360 Speaker 1: That there is a world of difference between us. And 2005 01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:21,960 Speaker 1: so you know, I think debate is good. 2006 01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:26,040 Speaker 2: I don't have any issue with you know, like the 2007 01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:30,360 Speaker 2: Republicans and the Democrats having like you know, feisty debate 2008 01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:31,280 Speaker 2: and telling each. 2009 01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:32,040 Speaker 1: Other where they're wrong. 2010 01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:39,080 Speaker 2: And but like when you start, when you start making 2011 01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:42,960 Speaker 2: the other side your enemy, you're never going to accomplish 2012 01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:48,040 Speaker 2: anything because a very I'm a very low key guy. 2013 01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:51,000 Speaker 2: I can handle a lot of aggression. But at some point, 2014 01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:54,240 Speaker 2: if you call me a fucking asshole for like three 2015 01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:57,679 Speaker 2: months in a row, I can't give you the benefit 2016 01:53:57,720 --> 01:53:58,559 Speaker 2: of the doubt anymore. 2017 01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:01,519 Speaker 1: I just can't like and I. 2018 01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:04,400 Speaker 2: Will start to see negative in anything you do. Like 2019 01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:07,800 Speaker 2: if you Sean Parnell spend three months doing a Nick 2020 01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:10,960 Speaker 2: Palmer Shadow Sucks campaign and then you call me and 2021 01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,559 Speaker 2: you're like, bro, I really need your help on this thing. 2022 01:54:15,320 --> 01:54:19,320 Speaker 2: Like I'm assuming this is a setup. I'm assuming that 2023 01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:21,640 Speaker 2: like we're gonna do something and then you're gonna drag me. 2024 01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:26,280 Speaker 2: I'm assuming that there's some ulterior motive and that's what happens. 2025 01:54:26,439 --> 01:54:29,840 Speaker 1: Is like, no matter no matter how much of a 2026 01:54:30,439 --> 01:54:30,720 Speaker 1: of a. 2027 01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:35,760 Speaker 2: You know, politician you are, or you think that you're 2028 01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:38,800 Speaker 2: unscathed by this stuff, Like people take things personally. Everything 2029 01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:42,080 Speaker 2: is when people are like, it's not it's not personal, 2030 01:54:42,200 --> 01:54:46,320 Speaker 2: it's business. Business is personal. Politics is personal. You go 2031 01:54:46,440 --> 01:54:50,520 Speaker 2: after somebody, especially when you go after somebody's family, you 2032 01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:53,240 Speaker 2: go after their service, you go after there like. 2033 01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:58,400 Speaker 1: It's It's what I think is interesting, Nick, is that 2034 01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:02,800 Speaker 1: like I think that ten or fifteen years ago, yes, 2035 01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:06,440 Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats, especially in the age of Reagan and tippo'neo, 2036 01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,640 Speaker 1: they had that relationship where they work together on behalf 2037 01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:12,440 Speaker 1: of a grateful nation. But the sort of more, the 2038 01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:15,240 Speaker 1: more divisive rhetoric that we that we're seeing today, I 2039 01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:17,160 Speaker 1: sort of I think that's kind of like just the 2040 01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:19,360 Speaker 1: EBB and the flow of American politics. And if you 2041 01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:23,120 Speaker 1: go back to like the Founders, they were ruthless in 2042 01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:27,520 Speaker 1: their campaigns. They're calling each other's wives fat and yeah, 2043 01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:33,320 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson, they were legit savages, and so I think, 2044 01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:35,560 Speaker 1: like maybe we've always been this way. 2045 01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:41,880 Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson, you know, created a whole newspaper under a 2046 01:55:42,080 --> 01:55:45,760 Speaker 2: pseudonym just to talk shit about George Washington, I know, 2047 01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:48,440 Speaker 2: because he was too much of a coward to like 2048 01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:51,840 Speaker 2: just say it, you know, to him, like and that, 2049 01:55:52,080 --> 01:55:54,040 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, and and back and forth, like 2050 01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:57,960 Speaker 2: I mean like like, yes, it's always been bad, and 2051 01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:00,600 Speaker 2: I don't I don't ever envision a time where it's 2052 01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:03,160 Speaker 2: just going to be like handholding and like kumba yah. 2053 01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:08,000 Speaker 2: But and I know, like he got dragged, but like 2054 01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,400 Speaker 2: I was a huge fan of John McCain. Like I 2055 01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:13,600 Speaker 2: was a huge fan because John McCain. 2056 01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:16,480 Speaker 1: Was willing to like try to do. 2057 01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:19,480 Speaker 2: The right thing and try to bring people together and 2058 01:56:19,760 --> 01:56:23,000 Speaker 2: be honest and be you know, and like I know that, 2059 01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:25,640 Speaker 2: like you're not supposed to like John McCain as a Republican, 2060 01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:29,320 Speaker 2: but I don't care. I think I just think he 2061 01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:31,840 Speaker 2: was a great statesman and I think we need more 2062 01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:35,240 Speaker 2: of that. I think we need people that are willing 2063 01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:39,000 Speaker 2: to work together. And it's very easy to say, like, well, 2064 01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:41,880 Speaker 2: it's too divided now, but like, hey, isn't that what 2065 01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:45,160 Speaker 2: leadership is? Isn't leadership saying well, like I know that 2066 01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:47,600 Speaker 2: the easy thing for me to do is to just 2067 01:56:47,680 --> 01:56:51,320 Speaker 2: be you know, the Democrats are terrible and they're trying 2068 01:56:51,320 --> 01:56:53,640 Speaker 2: to take our guns and whatever and all. Or the 2069 01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:57,200 Speaker 2: easy thing to do is like Republicans don't care about kids, 2070 01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,880 Speaker 2: and they they hate gay people. Like these are easy 2071 01:57:00,520 --> 01:57:04,760 Speaker 2: hits to make, right, It's not true. Neither of these 2072 01:57:04,840 --> 01:57:07,760 Speaker 2: things is necessarily true. There are people on both sides 2073 01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:10,880 Speaker 2: they believe those things. Sure, but like the lion's share 2074 01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:14,720 Speaker 2: of America, again, we agree on like eighty four percent 2075 01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:21,200 Speaker 2: of everything, so we should be agreeing. Our politicians should 2076 01:57:21,240 --> 01:57:27,560 Speaker 2: be agreeing on bills and legislation and initiatives roughly eighty 2077 01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:28,400 Speaker 2: four percent. 2078 01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:28,640 Speaker 1: Of the time. 2079 01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:31,800 Speaker 2: But they're not. They never agree. There's always a problem, 2080 01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:35,280 Speaker 2: and that's where you know, they're not trying to solve problems. 2081 01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:38,200 Speaker 2: They're trying to provide theater. And so, like if you're 2082 01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:41,520 Speaker 2: a politician and you're thinking, how do I rile up 2083 01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:44,840 Speaker 2: my constituency instead of how do I solve this problem 2084 01:57:44,920 --> 01:57:45,520 Speaker 2: for America? 2085 01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:49,000 Speaker 1: Like you are the problem? Well, but so if you 2086 01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:53,000 Speaker 1: look at politics and we say to ourselves that politics 2087 01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:58,000 Speaker 1: is downstream from culture, isn't the next logical step to 2088 01:57:58,120 --> 01:58:00,440 Speaker 1: say what is wrong with our culture or that are 2089 01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:03,480 Speaker 1: producing these types of leaders to where they can't solve 2090 01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:05,480 Speaker 1: any problem? Sure? 2091 01:58:06,240 --> 01:58:09,360 Speaker 2: Sure, I mean you definitely, but we're all it's also 2092 01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:12,240 Speaker 2: chicken or the egg, right, So what I think you 2093 01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:17,440 Speaker 2: have now you have a very online, very online world, 2094 01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:23,440 Speaker 2: and it's just easy to silo yourself, and so you 2095 01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:27,040 Speaker 2: know when people are spending you know, I forget what 2096 01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:30,320 Speaker 2: the average American spends online now, but it's like twelve hours. 2097 01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:32,160 Speaker 2: I mean it's like half the day you're online. 2098 01:58:32,720 --> 01:58:34,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, Like you ever get those screen time updates 2099 01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:37,560 Speaker 1: on your iPhone and it's like you've spent eight hours 2100 01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:40,120 Speaker 1: on your phone. I'm like, holy shit, that I that's 2101 01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:41,200 Speaker 1: I had it crazy. 2102 01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:43,200 Speaker 2: I had a day that was like seventeen and. 2103 01:58:43,200 --> 01:58:46,400 Speaker 1: A half hours and I was like, I believe it. 2104 01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:47,800 Speaker 1: I believe it. It's crazy. 2105 01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:56,720 Speaker 2: How did that happen? But you know, we spend more 2106 01:58:56,760 --> 01:58:59,480 Speaker 2: time online than we spend with people, and I do 2107 01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:02,320 Speaker 2: think that that is the issue. And you can because 2108 01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:06,800 Speaker 2: you're online, you can select people. Like when I grew up, 2109 01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:10,800 Speaker 2: right and when you grew up, we didn't select who 2110 01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:13,520 Speaker 2: we hung out with. It was like, these are the 2111 01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:17,040 Speaker 2: kids in the neighborhood, you know, these are the parents 2112 01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:19,600 Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. And so so like you have a 2113 01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:23,200 Speaker 2: picnic or something, you know, you're barbecuing, You're inviting the 2114 01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:26,880 Speaker 2: neighborhood over. Like some of those people were liberal, some 2115 01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:29,520 Speaker 2: of those people were conservative. You never even thought about it. 2116 01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:32,320 Speaker 2: It wasn't like who will you know, maybe the parents 2117 01:59:32,360 --> 01:59:35,160 Speaker 2: get into like a boisterous debate, but they're having beers, 2118 01:59:35,200 --> 01:59:37,760 Speaker 2: they're laughing. They know each other and they trust each other, 2119 01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:43,760 Speaker 2: like it's not serious. Well, now, you know, I mean 2120 01:59:43,880 --> 01:59:47,320 Speaker 2: I live in a suburban neighborhood not dissimilar to how 2121 01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:49,520 Speaker 2: I grew up. But like I don't know my neighbors 2122 01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:54,680 Speaker 2: because my friends are all you know, I know, they're 2123 01:59:54,760 --> 01:59:57,280 Speaker 2: they're we have digital acquaintances and so. 2124 01:59:57,440 --> 01:59:59,200 Speaker 1: We can do stuff. We can do stuff like this, 2125 02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:00,800 Speaker 1: do stuff like this. 2126 02:00:01,680 --> 02:00:04,160 Speaker 2: But the problem with this is that you and I 2127 02:00:05,360 --> 02:00:07,640 Speaker 2: are aligned on a lot of things. You know, we 2128 02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:10,320 Speaker 2: probably have some you know, some things. You know, we've 2129 02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:12,080 Speaker 2: talked about it in the past, Like you know that 2130 02:00:12,400 --> 02:00:14,240 Speaker 2: where you're one way and I'm another way. But like 2131 02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:17,960 Speaker 2: you know, like I'm a I'm a moderate conservative. You know, 2132 02:00:21,360 --> 02:00:24,120 Speaker 2: most of my friends are. You know, they're either a 2133 02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:27,040 Speaker 2: little more liberal than I am or a little more conservative. 2134 02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:29,080 Speaker 2: But like we kind of have a we have a 2135 02:00:29,200 --> 02:00:33,120 Speaker 2: similar life view. You know. Very few of my friends 2136 02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:37,000 Speaker 2: don't believe in the Second Amendment, for example. Right, So 2137 02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:40,600 Speaker 2: so I rarely have conversations unless I go out and 2138 02:00:40,720 --> 02:00:43,880 Speaker 2: seek them about that topic. And I don't engage in 2139 02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:47,600 Speaker 2: like angry you know, online stuff with anybody because I 2140 02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:51,200 Speaker 2: respect opinions and I like to understand how people get 2141 02:00:51,240 --> 02:00:53,480 Speaker 2: to them, and I like to have those conversations. But 2142 02:00:55,320 --> 02:00:57,960 Speaker 2: online there's no skin in the game. So somebody meets 2143 02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:01,440 Speaker 2: me online and says I hate you. You believe in this, 2144 02:01:02,280 --> 02:01:04,840 Speaker 2: they can say whatever, they can go back, they'll they'll 2145 02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:07,320 Speaker 2: screen grab it, they'll show their friends, like, hey, I 2146 02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:12,440 Speaker 2: teed off on this blue check today, and you know, 2147 02:01:13,160 --> 02:01:16,120 Speaker 2: I really showed him, you know, whereas like in my life, 2148 02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:18,600 Speaker 2: it's just some person yammering like I don't even like, 2149 02:01:18,720 --> 02:01:20,560 Speaker 2: it's not even a thing. I don't know who this 2150 02:01:20,680 --> 02:01:23,200 Speaker 2: person is. I don't care. But to this person, it's 2151 02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:28,360 Speaker 2: like a meaningful conversation. To me, meaningful conversations are in person. 2152 02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:33,040 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, Well you're right. I mean, there 2153 02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,880 Speaker 1: is certainly a diffusion of responsibility that comes with hitting 2154 02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:40,320 Speaker 1: that tweet button, where the moment that you hit it, 2155 02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:43,400 Speaker 1: or that the internet or that the Twitter itself or 2156 02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:47,360 Speaker 1: whatever website you're using is is almost a barrier between 2157 02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:51,360 Speaker 1: what you're saying and how someone else receives it. And 2158 02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:56,640 Speaker 1: I think that diffusion of responsibility is led to great 2159 02:01:56,720 --> 02:01:59,400 Speaker 1: division in this country in some ways, you know, to 2160 02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:02,800 Speaker 1: where there's no way people would talk to you, never 2161 02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:05,560 Speaker 1: like the way that they do in person the way 2162 02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:06,840 Speaker 1: they do online. You know what I mean? 2163 02:02:06,960 --> 02:02:10,680 Speaker 2: Like literally has never had online you know, fuck you 2164 02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:13,080 Speaker 2: you'll do I'll do this to you, I'll do that 2165 02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:15,560 Speaker 2: to you. You you know you think you're this, you're 2166 02:02:15,600 --> 02:02:19,760 Speaker 2: that in person? Never had anybody be anything but nice 2167 02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:20,760 Speaker 2: to me and the same. 2168 02:02:20,920 --> 02:02:22,920 Speaker 1: I don't think that I have either, Nick, I don't. 2169 02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:24,480 Speaker 1: I think that you're right. I don't think that I've 2170 02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:26,400 Speaker 1: ever had any I mean I've I've gotten into it 2171 02:02:26,440 --> 02:02:30,200 Speaker 1: with people before in person, right conversation. It's never been 2172 02:02:31,560 --> 02:02:37,040 Speaker 1: as caustic and hostile as it is on the internet. 2173 02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:41,760 Speaker 1: Although there was somebody that that commented on me when 2174 02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:43,880 Speaker 1: I jumped into the Senate race, which I thought was amazing. 2175 02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:46,320 Speaker 1: So there are positive examples of this too, where someone's like, 2176 02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:50,320 Speaker 1: we have to stop the personification of Axe body Spray 2177 02:02:50,440 --> 02:02:53,600 Speaker 1: from winning the Senate seat in Pennsylvania. And she didn't 2178 02:02:53,640 --> 02:02:56,040 Speaker 1: mention my name, but I knew she was talking about me. 2179 02:02:56,360 --> 02:02:59,160 Speaker 2: Well, you've got the hair man, the hair it's it's 2180 02:02:59,400 --> 02:02:59,880 Speaker 2: on point. 2181 02:03:00,280 --> 02:03:02,320 Speaker 1: He come on, who doesn't like a spritz of X 2182 02:03:02,360 --> 02:03:03,520 Speaker 1: body spravery now and again? 2183 02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:04,240 Speaker 2: Nick yep. 2184 02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:08,760 Speaker 1: So So anyways, man, we've been talking for like a 2185 02:03:08,840 --> 02:03:11,120 Speaker 1: real long time. I didn't intend to have I mean 2186 02:03:11,360 --> 02:03:13,520 Speaker 1: I didn't intend to have you for as long as 2187 02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:19,240 Speaker 1: I we've been on. So can we talk about diesel 2188 02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:23,200 Speaker 1: Jack media real quick? So now you got this new 2189 02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:28,040 Speaker 1: thing going with diesel Jack, and I mean what you're 2190 02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:31,000 Speaker 1: doing music videos, now, you're doing commercials. Now you have 2191 02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:35,200 Speaker 1: a documentary out now, but you're from your like part 2192 02:03:35,240 --> 02:03:37,760 Speaker 1: of Save Our Allies and the documentaries called send Me 2193 02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:41,200 Speaker 1: Like and this is not the movie that you did 2194 02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:43,760 Speaker 1: with the Ranger Up. So like, what what's next for 2195 02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:45,160 Speaker 1: you with with diesel Jack. 2196 02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so diesel Jack came out of you know, I 2197 02:03:49,720 --> 02:03:53,480 Speaker 2: did a deal with a group out of Ohio to 2198 02:03:53,640 --> 02:03:57,840 Speaker 2: take over the Lion's share of Ranger Up. And so 2199 02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:00,640 Speaker 2: that was like three and a half years ago, four 2200 02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:03,840 Speaker 2: years ago now I can't remember. So they bought, you know, 2201 02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:07,000 Speaker 2: the fifty one percent share of Ranger Up and Tim 2202 02:04:07,080 --> 02:04:09,600 Speaker 2: Kennedy and I you know, still have the rest of it. 2203 02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:12,000 Speaker 2: But we but we have no role in it anymore. 2204 02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:15,560 Speaker 2: So like we're not we're not running marketing, we're not designing. 2205 02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:21,360 Speaker 2: Like this organization is doing their own thing. And we 2206 02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:24,080 Speaker 2: worked for them for a year and then you know, 2207 02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:26,520 Speaker 2: it was like time for a new thing. And so 2208 02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:28,720 Speaker 2: when I was thinking about what the new thing was, 2209 02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:32,280 Speaker 2: you know, I thought a lot about what do I 2210 02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:35,360 Speaker 2: really like to do, and so I found that, you know, 2211 02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:38,360 Speaker 2: for the entirety of Ranger Up, I spent a lot 2212 02:04:38,480 --> 02:04:41,960 Speaker 2: of time helping people like, you know, hey, Nick, I 2213 02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:44,280 Speaker 2: have this problem, Hey Nick, I have that problem. Hey Nick, 2214 02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:45,720 Speaker 2: I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to do that, 2215 02:04:46,400 --> 02:04:49,000 Speaker 2: and then figuring out a solution, you know, you know, 2216 02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:52,080 Speaker 2: creatively to how to solve that problem. And the second 2217 02:04:52,160 --> 02:04:56,760 Speaker 2: thing that I loved and have forever, but really really 2218 02:04:56,920 --> 02:05:00,920 Speaker 2: hit home when we did Range fifteen is I love 2219 02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:02,680 Speaker 2: making film and I love storytelling. 2220 02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:05,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. It's so cool. It's awesome. 2221 02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:05,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 2222 02:05:05,920 --> 02:05:06,200 Speaker 1: And so. 2223 02:05:07,760 --> 02:05:11,760 Speaker 2: I brought two guys on. The first guy is Hollywood. 2224 02:05:11,880 --> 02:05:16,160 Speaker 2: Heard he was the second unit director on Range fifteen. 2225 02:05:17,480 --> 02:05:17,840 Speaker 1: He is. 2226 02:05:19,680 --> 02:05:21,720 Speaker 2: He is a sixty five year old and he's going 2227 02:05:21,800 --> 02:05:23,480 Speaker 2: to be mad because I said his age. He's a 2228 02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:28,280 Speaker 2: sixty five year old Air Force pilot and his call 2229 02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:33,880 Speaker 2: sign was Hollywood before Top Gun. And then he moved 2230 02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:36,720 Speaker 2: to Hollywood because his buddy had gotten a gig in 2231 02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:39,840 Speaker 2: Hollywood working on a crew and when he got out, 2232 02:05:39,880 --> 02:05:42,800 Speaker 2: he was like, man, this place is the best. You know, 2233 02:05:42,960 --> 02:05:46,000 Speaker 2: beautiful women, great food, Like come out here for a while. 2234 02:05:46,680 --> 02:05:49,800 Speaker 2: So he goes out there, and his buddy's always calling 2235 02:05:49,880 --> 02:05:54,360 Speaker 2: him Hollywood, so it's stuck. So his call sign becomes 2236 02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:58,240 Speaker 2: also his Hollywood nickname. So he works in Hollywood and 2237 02:05:58,400 --> 02:06:01,600 Speaker 2: goes by Hollywood. And the dude has done everything like 2238 02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:07,920 Speaker 2: Scorsese films, Titanic, Winter Soldier, pirates the Caribbean, like he 2239 02:06:08,280 --> 02:06:08,840 Speaker 2: is a machine. 2240 02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:13,760 Speaker 1: Those are all classics, classics, and so Hollywood. 2241 02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:18,000 Speaker 2: I said, hey, man, like here's what I'm doing, you know, 2242 02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:20,160 Speaker 2: would you like to would you like to be involved? 2243 02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:23,880 Speaker 2: And he was like absolutely. So he becomes the you know, 2244 02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:27,520 Speaker 2: my director of video. And then I reach out to 2245 02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:34,240 Speaker 2: this other guy, Albert who Albert Soe, who I had 2246 02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:37,080 Speaker 2: worked with a couple of projects in the past, and 2247 02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:40,000 Speaker 2: he'd run, you know, as the second in command of 2248 02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:43,440 Speaker 2: two or three agencies. And I asked him like, hey, 2249 02:06:43,640 --> 02:06:46,200 Speaker 2: I don't know anything about running an agency, but I 2250 02:06:46,280 --> 02:06:49,320 Speaker 2: know a lot about marketing, so you know, what do 2251 02:06:49,400 --> 02:06:51,040 Speaker 2: you think? And he was like, let's do it. And 2252 02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:56,160 Speaker 2: so I get these two guys on board and and 2253 02:06:56,320 --> 02:06:59,640 Speaker 2: then I hired all my old employees from Ranger up 2254 02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:03,000 Speaker 2: because you know, the new organization basically was like you 2255 02:07:03,080 --> 02:07:08,560 Speaker 2: can you can come to Columbus, Ohio or not, but 2256 02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:12,520 Speaker 2: those are your choices. So so I hired all my 2257 02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:15,000 Speaker 2: old employees and that was the starting point of diesel 2258 02:07:15,080 --> 02:07:18,080 Speaker 2: Jack Media. So fast forward. You know, I think we're 2259 02:07:18,120 --> 02:07:22,280 Speaker 2: about two and a half years in right now. Yeah, 2260 02:07:22,440 --> 02:07:25,600 Speaker 2: we you know, we had send me qualified for OSCAR voting. 2261 02:07:25,720 --> 02:07:27,760 Speaker 2: We got we got bumped. We didn't make the short 2262 02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:33,200 Speaker 2: round because we got bumped by Retrograde that Disney made. Also, 2263 02:07:33,240 --> 02:07:35,480 Speaker 2: they weren't gonna have two Afghanistan films. It was only 2264 02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:37,720 Speaker 2: going to be one. So it was either US or Retrograde. 2265 02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:40,360 Speaker 2: And Disney's got a little more cachet than we do, 2266 02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:47,120 Speaker 2: but but it was an honor to be considered amazing. 2267 02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:52,120 Speaker 2: We did the five for Fighting video in Ukraine, Can 2268 02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:56,080 Speaker 2: One Man Save the World? And five for Fighting hit 2269 02:07:56,160 --> 02:07:58,640 Speaker 2: the Billboard charts for the first time since the early 2270 02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:00,840 Speaker 2: two thousands off of that at all the marketing for 2271 02:08:00,920 --> 02:08:05,200 Speaker 2: that video and we do a ton of commercials for 2272 02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:11,760 Speaker 2: nonprofits and for businesses. Basically, you know, our approach is 2273 02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:15,680 Speaker 2: that we want to tell the story of the organization. 2274 02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:17,600 Speaker 2: We don't think about it like we're going to make 2275 02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:22,000 Speaker 2: a commercial. We think about it like how do we 2276 02:08:22,120 --> 02:08:24,920 Speaker 2: get across to people with these guys really stand for? 2277 02:08:25,280 --> 02:08:27,800 Speaker 2: And in order to make that easy, I only take 2278 02:08:27,920 --> 02:08:31,160 Speaker 2: clients that I believe in. So if somebody comes to 2279 02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:34,280 Speaker 2: me with some bullshit product or you know, nonprofit that 2280 02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:36,080 Speaker 2: I think is shady or whatever, We're not going to 2281 02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:40,320 Speaker 2: work with them. So we because of that, everyone here 2282 02:08:40,440 --> 02:08:45,200 Speaker 2: is invested, you know, like my team believes in these companies, 2283 02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:51,840 Speaker 2: these nonprofit organizations, whatever, and and we go like above 2284 02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:54,240 Speaker 2: and beyond for people. And the results have been that, 2285 02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:58,879 Speaker 2: you know, these organizations have all expanded significantly, and our 2286 02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:02,760 Speaker 2: reputation is is getting better and better, and we're kind 2287 02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:05,280 Speaker 2: of getting you know, bigger and bigger clients, and it 2288 02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:08,120 Speaker 2: it's it's really like I'll. 2289 02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:09,120 Speaker 1: Show you the mug. 2290 02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:13,200 Speaker 2: This is my everybody. I don't know if you can 2291 02:09:13,240 --> 02:09:13,720 Speaker 2: read that or not. 2292 02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:16,320 Speaker 1: It's try not to suck, Try not to suck. 2293 02:09:16,520 --> 02:09:20,280 Speaker 2: And it's it sounds silly, right, but you know when 2294 02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:23,560 Speaker 2: I ran Ranger Up, I hired I don't know, four 2295 02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:27,400 Speaker 2: or five marketing organizations and they were all terrible, like 2296 02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:30,600 Speaker 2: truly terrible, like they they gave you a great PowerPoint 2297 02:09:30,680 --> 02:09:34,920 Speaker 2: presentation the first month, and then you don't really hear 2298 02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:37,240 Speaker 2: from them for ten months other than like a monthly 2299 02:09:37,400 --> 02:09:40,800 Speaker 2: update that says you're doing incredibly well, but like your 2300 02:09:40,880 --> 02:09:43,960 Speaker 2: sales haven't gone up, nothing's changed. But somehow these people 2301 02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:46,640 Speaker 2: are telling you that, like their work is great. And 2302 02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:50,280 Speaker 2: then the last month of the annual contract they're talking 2303 02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:52,200 Speaker 2: about all the great things they're going to do next year. 2304 02:09:52,560 --> 02:09:54,760 Speaker 2: You know, if you re up, and it's like you 2305 02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:59,240 Speaker 2: just stole a year's worth of money from me, And 2306 02:09:59,400 --> 02:10:02,080 Speaker 2: so that that is a very common experience, and so 2307 02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:06,240 Speaker 2: it's really interesting. Our second happiest customers are people that 2308 02:10:06,360 --> 02:10:09,200 Speaker 2: have hired us that have never worked with an agency 2309 02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:15,280 Speaker 2: because they're extremely happy with how much their company has grown, 2310 02:10:15,520 --> 02:10:19,280 Speaker 2: or happy with how much their organization is raised, or awareness, 2311 02:10:19,360 --> 02:10:23,120 Speaker 2: whatever their goals are. But the happiest people that have 2312 02:10:23,240 --> 02:10:25,760 Speaker 2: worked with us are people that have hired a marketing 2313 02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:30,720 Speaker 2: agency in the past, because the experience is so incredibly different. 2314 02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:35,839 Speaker 1: So super proud of this team, super proud. 2315 02:10:35,640 --> 02:10:36,360 Speaker 2: Of everything that we do. 2316 02:10:36,880 --> 02:10:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I love the focus on story and Nick. 2317 02:10:40,280 --> 02:10:44,480 Speaker 1: What I think is is kind of remarkable is just 2318 02:10:44,600 --> 02:10:49,760 Speaker 1: how many people organizations, nonprofits don't know how to tell 2319 02:10:49,840 --> 02:10:54,880 Speaker 1: their own story. But if they did, I mean, who knows, 2320 02:10:55,040 --> 02:10:57,680 Speaker 1: the sky's the limit, because I do think that people 2321 02:10:57,840 --> 02:11:02,600 Speaker 1: don't buy into ten point plans. They don't buy you know, 2322 02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and Republican politicians fall into this trap all 2323 02:11:06,080 --> 02:11:09,720 Speaker 1: the time where they start talking about economic plans or 2324 02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:12,360 Speaker 1: stuff like, okay, to a certain extent, as a Republican, 2325 02:11:12,960 --> 02:11:16,160 Speaker 1: I know that we're going to believe mostly the same stuff. So, 2326 02:11:16,360 --> 02:11:19,600 Speaker 1: but tell me about you and your story. Because people 2327 02:11:19,800 --> 02:11:23,400 Speaker 1: buy into stories. They'll say to themselves when they hear 2328 02:11:23,440 --> 02:11:25,520 Speaker 1: a story, oh my gosh, like I didn't have that 2329 02:11:25,680 --> 02:11:28,600 Speaker 1: exact experience, but my experience was similar in this way, 2330 02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:31,840 Speaker 1: and boy was his outcome different. Yes, And so the 2331 02:11:31,960 --> 02:11:36,800 Speaker 1: importance of storytelling and symbolism and storytelling and how it 2332 02:11:36,920 --> 02:11:39,400 Speaker 1: pertains to marketing is so important. 2333 02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:43,920 Speaker 2: People people remember a story, they will not remember the 2334 02:11:44,040 --> 02:11:47,880 Speaker 2: fact she I mean, that's just the truth. But the 2335 02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:52,040 Speaker 2: other thing is, you know, most of us have a 2336 02:11:52,120 --> 02:11:56,400 Speaker 2: story that's worth telling, especially nonprofit organizations, right, they spend 2337 02:11:56,520 --> 02:12:01,040 Speaker 2: so much time trying to accomplish mission, whatever it is, 2338 02:12:01,160 --> 02:12:05,160 Speaker 2: whether it's helping kids or helping the elderly, or helping veterans, 2339 02:12:05,400 --> 02:12:10,000 Speaker 2: you know, whatever the mission is, like, the most people 2340 02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:13,520 Speaker 2: in nonprofits are so invested in it that they actually 2341 02:12:13,680 --> 02:12:17,879 Speaker 2: almost feel bad about the idea of investing in marketing 2342 02:12:18,080 --> 02:12:21,560 Speaker 2: or investing in right, you know. But the thing is, 2343 02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:23,280 Speaker 2: you know, if you. 2344 02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:30,320 Speaker 1: Spend ten grand and you make one hundred grand, you 2345 02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:35,280 Speaker 1: now have ninety thousand dollars of additional funding to work with. 2346 02:12:35,400 --> 02:12:41,560 Speaker 2: I mean, to me, it's basic business. But nonprofits spend 2347 02:12:41,600 --> 02:12:44,960 Speaker 2: a lot of time not being businesses. You will hear 2348 02:12:45,560 --> 02:12:48,240 Speaker 2: nonprofit say we don't run like a business. 2349 02:12:50,160 --> 02:12:55,080 Speaker 1: You should, So you're right, you're right. Well, how do 2350 02:12:55,160 --> 02:12:57,360 Speaker 1: you select? You said you don't take clients that you 2351 02:12:57,400 --> 02:12:59,280 Speaker 1: don't believe in? How do you how do you select 2352 02:12:59,400 --> 02:13:00,440 Speaker 1: clients that you believe in? 2353 02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:04,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so you know, we're not We don't 2354 02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:07,760 Speaker 2: do a lot of outreach we probably should. Typically people 2355 02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:09,760 Speaker 2: reach out to us and ask, if you know, to 2356 02:13:09,880 --> 02:13:12,080 Speaker 2: be clients or to have a call and talk discuss 2357 02:13:12,840 --> 02:13:16,600 Speaker 2: being a client, you know, And most people that reach 2358 02:13:16,680 --> 02:13:19,520 Speaker 2: out have been referred by somebody else that we've worked with. 2359 02:13:19,640 --> 02:13:23,560 Speaker 2: So generally, like, it's not often a situation where where 2360 02:13:23,680 --> 02:13:26,720 Speaker 2: we don't work with people because usually the people that 2361 02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:29,800 Speaker 2: find us are being sent here by somebody we already trust. 2362 02:13:30,240 --> 02:13:32,800 Speaker 2: But every once in a while we get somebody that's 2363 02:13:32,880 --> 02:13:39,240 Speaker 2: almost like pitching a scheme or or it's a nonprofit 2364 02:13:39,480 --> 02:13:43,840 Speaker 2: that like seventy percent is going to paying like the 2365 02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:48,000 Speaker 2: you know, the principles, and it's like, I'm not going 2366 02:13:48,080 --> 02:13:50,360 Speaker 2: to be involved in this, you know, you know yeah, 2367 02:13:50,480 --> 02:13:53,280 Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, like startup nonprofits, like you know, 2368 02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:56,040 Speaker 2: sometimes the funding isn't perfect, Like you know, I'm not 2369 02:13:56,120 --> 02:14:02,160 Speaker 2: gonna having having been involved in a nonprofit. Like it's 2370 02:14:02,720 --> 02:14:05,240 Speaker 2: it's all over the map as to when funding comes in. 2371 02:14:05,440 --> 02:14:07,760 Speaker 2: Like you might have a year that's like ninety nine 2372 02:14:07,840 --> 02:14:10,120 Speaker 2: percent is going out. You might have a year where 2373 02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:12,920 Speaker 2: it's like, you know, seventy like it right, you know, 2374 02:14:13,120 --> 02:14:18,720 Speaker 2: because you know it's a wild ride. But like you know, 2375 02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:24,120 Speaker 2: if something doesn't feel right or if if I think 2376 02:14:24,200 --> 02:14:27,320 Speaker 2: the relationship isn't going to work right, so we are 2377 02:14:27,960 --> 02:14:30,200 Speaker 2: our whole thing is like we become part of the team. 2378 02:14:30,360 --> 02:14:34,400 Speaker 2: I mean legitimately everyone says that shit, but like we 2379 02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:36,760 Speaker 2: are part of the team. Like if there's a problem 2380 02:14:36,880 --> 02:14:39,040 Speaker 2: in any part of the business, like we're involved in 2381 02:14:39,160 --> 02:14:44,640 Speaker 2: solving it. And you know, so like if somebody is 2382 02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:50,480 Speaker 2: I don't let my employees be treated poorly. As an example, 2383 02:14:51,080 --> 02:14:53,440 Speaker 2: so like if you've got a guy that like loves 2384 02:14:53,560 --> 02:14:56,240 Speaker 2: to like crap on people, and that's the whole shtick, 2385 02:14:56,400 --> 02:14:59,840 Speaker 2: Like we don't need that. And I know I'm saying 2386 02:15:00,040 --> 02:15:01,720 Speaker 2: all the things we won't do, but like for the 2387 02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:05,000 Speaker 2: most part, we were, we've we've It's not like we're 2388 02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:06,520 Speaker 2: saying no to people all the time. 2389 02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:09,840 Speaker 1: But you know, you not all not all money is 2390 02:15:09,880 --> 02:15:12,320 Speaker 1: good money, right, Like you've got to be able to 2391 02:15:12,400 --> 02:15:15,800 Speaker 1: direct your time and energy to not just part partners 2392 02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:21,520 Speaker 1: that have a consonant belief system, mutually mutual respect. Yes, 2393 02:15:21,520 --> 02:15:25,320 Speaker 1: because yes, you know you'll spend so much time on 2394 02:15:25,400 --> 02:15:27,640 Speaker 1: a client. I mean, look, I don't know. I'm not 2395 02:15:27,720 --> 02:15:29,160 Speaker 1: a part of I'm not a part of your business, 2396 02:15:29,200 --> 02:15:32,520 Speaker 1: but I feel like it's time. Yeah, where you go, It. 2397 02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:36,920 Speaker 2: Is exactly right. You will spend eight times more on 2398 02:15:37,160 --> 02:15:41,320 Speaker 2: somebody that is a pain in the butt that doesn't 2399 02:15:41,320 --> 02:15:43,640 Speaker 2: share your values, then you will on somebody that shares 2400 02:15:43,680 --> 02:15:46,640 Speaker 2: your values because when you when you have somebody that 2401 02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:49,960 Speaker 2: shares your values, there's trust. Like if I know somebody 2402 02:15:50,080 --> 02:15:52,400 Speaker 2: is a good person running a good organization, trying to 2403 02:15:52,480 --> 02:15:55,840 Speaker 2: do a good thing, it's I that's the lens. I 2404 02:15:55,920 --> 02:15:57,960 Speaker 2: look at like, hey, this person is just trying to 2405 02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:00,720 Speaker 2: do so if they're mad, you know, not again, not 2406 02:16:00,800 --> 02:16:02,320 Speaker 2: that people are mad all the time, but like if 2407 02:16:02,360 --> 02:16:05,440 Speaker 2: they're mad, I respect that they're mad because I know 2408 02:16:05,640 --> 02:16:07,960 Speaker 2: this is a good person running a good organization, trying 2409 02:16:08,000 --> 02:16:10,600 Speaker 2: to do a good thing. So like whatever they're mad about, 2410 02:16:10,680 --> 02:16:13,480 Speaker 2: we need to fix. But if a person's just mad 2411 02:16:13,560 --> 02:16:16,720 Speaker 2: all the time and like they get their kicks, you know, 2412 02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:19,840 Speaker 2: kind of crapping on people that they've employed for something 2413 02:16:20,520 --> 02:16:21,480 Speaker 2: like I don't need that money. 2414 02:16:22,280 --> 02:16:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I totally I respect that, man, I do. 2415 02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:30,720 Speaker 1: And look, I don't want to take up any more 2416 02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:32,640 Speaker 1: of your time. Nick, I'm glad that you came. 2417 02:16:33,040 --> 02:16:34,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for talkings, for having me, man. 2418 02:16:34,959 --> 02:16:38,200 Speaker 1: It's freaking awesome. Keep kicking ass and taking names, Nick, 2419 02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:41,800 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on battleground all right, man, 2420 02:16:42,240 --> 02:16:46,200 Speaker 1: take care of it. Bro all right, everybody that is 2421 02:16:46,560 --> 02:16:51,400 Speaker 1: it rounds complete. I hope you enjoyed. Nick Palmchano. That 2422 02:16:51,480 --> 02:16:54,600 Speaker 1: was a long conversation over two hours. But he's a 2423 02:16:54,640 --> 02:17:00,240 Speaker 1: pretty remarkable guy, unbelievably accomplished. If you like what you here. 2424 02:17:01,560 --> 02:17:05,000 Speaker 1: Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, go 2425 02:17:05,160 --> 02:17:08,920 Speaker 1: to my YouTube channel click subscribe. There you'll get exclusive content. 2426 02:17:09,400 --> 02:17:12,440 Speaker 1: We just launched on Rumble as well. We'd love to 2427 02:17:12,520 --> 02:17:17,039 Speaker 1: have you there. Don't forget to check out the Battleground newsletter, 2428 02:17:17,160 --> 02:17:20,000 Speaker 1: the sit Rep. Don't forget to go to the new website. 2429 02:17:20,160 --> 02:17:24,199 Speaker 1: Check it out. Grab yourself a Battleground Apparel T shirt, 2430 02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:26,360 Speaker 1: and do everything that you can support to support this 2431 02:17:26,480 --> 02:17:30,240 Speaker 1: podcast because this podcast is for you. We're building this together. 2432 02:17:30,800 --> 02:17:35,760 Speaker 1: So as usual, thank you all so much for your time. 2433 02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:41,760 Speaker 1: God bless you all, and God bless this amazing country 2434 02:17:42,080 --> 02:17:44,080 Speaker 1: that we live in. Take care