1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Stefan. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, And today I 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: am bringing back a pretty recent one. We try to 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: wait a year at least before we bring a classic back. 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: But you might have seen on the news, you might 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: have seen on social media, and I'm sure you thought 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: of me that AO three, the fan fiction website, was 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: the victim of a DDoS attack, which is a denial 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: of service attack. And so I'm bringing back this this 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: episode that is about fan fiction and AO three specifically, 11 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: and I thought I would also update two because now 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: since recording this, I have published fan fiction on AO three, 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: So now I know there's a section in there where 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: I was talking about something that I had never done before. 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: Now I know it, Okay, So I think it was 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: July tenth. July tenth is when AO three went down. 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: This is terrible news for me and many people who 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: read fan fiction. It is one of the biggest, if 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: not the biggest, fan fiction website. It is run by volunteers. 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: It is a five on one three c. 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 3: My partner yesterday was like, oh it went down, did 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: you take on Annie? I was like, oh, yes, I 23 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 3: texted her yesterday or the day before yesterday. I made 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 3: sure she was alive. 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Is my coping mechanism being taken away? 26 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: There has been a lot of confusion about what happened. 27 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: It is back up as we record this, which is 28 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: July twelfth. July twelfth, and thank you to all the 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: volunteers that did that, because it is YEAP run by volunteers, 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: so they were the ones that were having to figure 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: out a solution. But there was a lot of discussion 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: around like who was behind it and all the confusion 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: around who's behind it. There was a lot of talk 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: about it being a religious political group, but it seems 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: that it was yes, Russian hackers doing it and the 36 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: people communicating about it at at because it was like 37 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: they have a Twitter where you can monitor the status 38 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: if something is wrong. They have a tumbler where you 39 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: can monitor if something's wrong, and they were very open that, 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: like the people who are taking claim for this were 41 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: being told didn't do it. 42 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: That's what the cybersecurity people are telling us. 43 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 2: But it was funny because Samantha and I were just 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: talking about like it was a horrible for me and 45 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: my friends who read fan fiction, It was a horrible 46 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: like thirty ish hours. But it was funny because they've 47 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: attacked this group or who they proclaimed to be, has 48 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 2: attacked big companies, like really big companies, and they came 49 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: for AO three. So I feel like that means AO 50 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 2: three has made it, has made it mainstream. 51 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: It was trending. It's so odd. 52 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: Again, Like I said, if it weren't for you, literally 53 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 3: just you, I would have never known about what I 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: would be like. It's that who was this and the 55 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 3: fact that they don't profit off of anything and they're 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: not a corporate any entity. I'm like, what what is happening? 57 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: Right? I mean, it was not a good thing. I'm 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: really angry about it. It was said because that there's 59 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: queer content on there, and when I like joke about 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: there are articles written within the past decade that are 61 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: fearmongering around fan fiction from the US, I am not 62 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: kidding like people like to say, it's like terrifying that 63 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: young girls especially are writing about sucks or whatever, especially 64 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: queer sex. 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: Because I was thinking about it. 66 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: Even stories where the main couples are straight, there's almost 67 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: always a queer couple in there. There's almost always some 68 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: queer element in there. It is a very queer space. 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: But that was the reason this group gave for attacking 70 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: AO three was basically like, it's a blasphemous queer space. 71 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: But when you texted me to check in, the thing 72 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: I kind of half jokingly texted back was my PDFs. 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: This is why I don'tload the PDFs, which I'm like 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: the only person I know that does that. But you 75 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 2: can download fan fiction to read later or offline PDF. 76 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: I usually do it because I'm afraid they'll delete it later, 77 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: because you can, you know, maybe one day you're like, 78 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: oh no, that thing I wrote when I was fifteen, 79 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: I don't want that up anymore. 80 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: And that's fair enough, so I download the PDF. But 81 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 2: The reason AO three exists at all is because Tumblr 83 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: started just erasing fan fiction on their platform without warning, 84 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: without like any reason, and so people were like, we 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: need an archive of our own. 86 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: It's the name. 87 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: But I was thinking about it, and it reminded me 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: of what we talked about in our fanzine episode, where 89 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: now they're trying to upload all of these things from 90 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: fanzines that. 91 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: Would be lost otherwise. 92 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: I was like, what if i'm I'm I have to 93 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: be a part of the rebuilding because I have all 94 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: these meds that I could upload the. 95 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: Luckily it never came to that. And that's not what 96 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: a deitya. She comes in with a save. 97 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 3: Oh, it's kind of like that Toy story story where 98 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: they erased all the data, but someone had gone on 99 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: maternity leave and she had like a hard copy of it, 100 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: and she was the one that saved the entire movie. 101 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't remember this, but yeah, I remember this. 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: Yes, I remember this. 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean fingers crossed. That is not what a 104 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: d DOS attack does. It wouldn't have debleted like everything 105 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: they have. But I had the thought, basically, it's just 106 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: like being overwhel by bots. There are some people, but 107 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: it prevents others from logging in or using the website 108 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: at all. And it did have a whole message that 109 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: was popping up that was like weird under addo as 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 2: attack the world'll be back, don't worry. 111 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm worried. 112 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: One day I will come back, and I'll because it's 113 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: still the desk is still kind of settling around this 114 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: and figuring out just what happened and who was behind 115 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: it and everything. Another thing that happened in the wake 116 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: of this was a lot of discussion around what we're 117 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: seeing with book banning and what happens if that goes 118 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: into a more online space, and there have been some 119 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:52,119 Speaker 2: proposed legislations around specifically protecting kids, some in good faith 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: and some and very bad faith, especially when it comes 121 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: around queer content and trans content and what that could 122 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: look like. So that's something that we need to look 123 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: out for and it is very scary. But I wanted 124 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: to give a quick update to on so in here 125 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: I was talking about archive warnings and I'd never used 126 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: them before as a writer from the writer's side, and 127 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: one of the things they're trying to fix is by 128 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: adding another archive warning for racism. So essentially archive warnings 129 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: when you are going to post a story, and I 130 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: know I talk about it in here, but I'm just 131 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: gonna come. Now that I've used it, I feel much 132 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: more comfortable and I know what I'm talking about. When 133 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: you publish a story, one of the first things you 134 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: have to fill out is archive warnings, and so you 135 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: can choose not to have them, but it will tell 136 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: then every reader will know like the author chose not 137 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: to use archive warnings. And the archive warnings are big 138 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: things like as we talked about rape and non con 139 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: non consent, so you have to say like that that's 140 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: in there underage any underage contents and then uh like 141 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: major character death things like that, and so people are 142 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: really pushing to add racism to that. That has to 143 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: be a thing that is in the archive morning so 144 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: and I've seen they just had their their big elections 145 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: and they are I've seen movement in that and talking 146 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: about that. 147 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: So that's good. But now I feel I know what 148 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: that is much. 149 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: Better now that I've done it, and it is it 150 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: does feel like very I just want all my readers 151 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: to have a good time, and it feels like so 152 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: special to be like, here's what I have to I 153 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: don't want something to upset you without you knowing it. 154 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: So you do have to be really mindful about the 155 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: tags and the tagging. But yeah, that's my update. I 156 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 2: have so much I have so much fan fiction to 157 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: catch up on, Samantha. 158 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: Everyone's like publishing now. 159 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: That's the first thing you said to me, yes yesterday. 160 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: I know, I know it was exciting because I started 161 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: getting comments on my work because I published on Sunday, 162 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: and that was like right when it was happening. 163 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: I was like, something's amiss, and I wasn't getting any 164 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: of my usual comments. But now they're rolling in. As 165 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: long as they're rolling in. 166 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: Well they're rolling in all right, So I know, you know, 167 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: I love to talk about fan fiction. I'm sure I 168 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: will come back and revisit this when I have more details, 169 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 2: but in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode. 170 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stefan. 171 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 2: Never told your protection of iHeartRadio, and today we are 172 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: doing one that is very near and dear. 173 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: To my heart. 174 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: Well it is your birthday week, even though as we're 175 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 3: recording it's not, but coming upon it as if the 176 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: listeners are less to it. It is Annie's birthday week, 177 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: so we must do all things Annie loves an. I 178 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 3: was thinking that we needed a whole week. 179 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: Of Annie's favorite things. I don't want to do it 180 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: that way, but you. 181 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: Know, I feel like this month has had a lot 182 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: of topics that are some of my favorite things. 183 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: So true as it should be. 184 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: As it should be, So hopefully you're enjoying all of 185 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: the nerd gum and nerdery so much. And Samantha and 186 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: I were discussing before this. I think we've said before 187 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 2: how we generally when we do these episodes, somebody will 188 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: take the lead and do the research and write it 189 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: out and then we kind of split who says what. 190 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: But there are some topics that it just feels so 191 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: obvious that I'm the one that probably wrote this one. 192 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: Well, the title you have for this, and I don't 193 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: know if we're using it is a love letter to 194 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: fan fiction. Yeah, I think we know whose love letter 195 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: it is. Fun Like, it's kind of obvious, it's true. 196 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: It's true. 197 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: So I once again, I'm going to be talking a lot, 198 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: and Samantha's going to be supporting me and perhaps asking questions. 199 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: There is confusion. Yes, that's what I love about you. 200 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: However, you did reveal right before this you had a 201 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: live journal, and I want to come back and revisit this. 202 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: At a later date, later times. 203 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: Yes, because I have quite a lot to say about 204 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: fan fiction. As it turns out, surprice no one. And 205 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: actually this one could have been longer. So it's a 206 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: Monday mini and I tried to limit myself, but it's 207 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 2: already quite long, all right, So yes, today we are 208 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 2: this is a love letter to one of the loves 209 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: of my life, which is fan fiction, and we are 210 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: going to be focusing specifically on AO three or Archive 211 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: of our Own, which is my current favorite fan fiction site, 212 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: though I grew up on fanfiction dot net, which is 213 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: still around as well. And also I wanted to shout 214 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: out a recent article that gave me this idea from 215 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: The Verge written by j Costello called Archive of Our 216 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: Owns fifteen year journey from blog post to fan fiction powerhouse. 217 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: AO three, by the way, is not a sponsor. It's 218 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: also a nonprofit, so I doubt they wouldn't be a sponsor, 219 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: but you know sometimes and you can see our episodes 220 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: on dub Con and fan fiction I think specifically dub 221 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: Con for this one actually, all right, So, according to 222 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: this article, the first stirrings of what would become Archive 223 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,599 Speaker 2: of our Own OREO three started in two thousand and 224 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: seven when fanfic authors, who again are mostly women and 225 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: marginalized folks, saw some efforts from companies created by men 226 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: to capitalize on the space. One such company was called 227 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: fan lib, a commercialized fan content site that eventually garnered 228 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 2: about twenty five thousand members, but also a whole bunch 229 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 2: of criticism from people who had been writing fan fiction 230 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: for free in this space four years and felt like 231 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: these outsiders were coming in and making money off of 232 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: stuff that they always offered for free. And a part 233 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: of the whole thing that keeps people from being sued 234 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: from writing fan fiction is that they aren't making money. 235 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: So I'm kind of confused by that. Then we're going 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: to talk about that a little bit more later, because 237 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: apparently it's not as a big deal. I was taught 238 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 2: that you might be sued at any minute, but yeah, 239 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: one of the big things is I'm not making any money. 240 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: Don't come at me, Disney, right, all right. So seeing 241 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: this kind of commercialization attempt, A published author both of 242 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 2: more traditional stuff and fan fiction named Naomi Novic wrote 243 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: on live journal, which was and still is space rife 244 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: and growing with fan fiction, wrote in two thousand and seven, 245 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 2: we are sitting quietly by the fireside, creating piles and 246 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: piles of content around us, and other people are going 247 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: to look at that and see an opportunity. The people 248 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: behind fanly but don't actually care about fanfic the fanfit 249 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: community are anything except making money off content created entirely 250 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: by other people and getting media attention. They don't have 251 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: a single fanfic reader or writer on their board. They 252 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 2: don't even have a single woman on their board. We 253 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: need a central archive of our own, and so only 254 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: a few months later, the nonprofit the Organization of Transformative 255 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: Works was formed with a goal of preserving fan works 256 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: and advocating for them as well. And Archive of Our 257 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: Own was launched in two thousand and nine, which is 258 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: a part of the Organization of Transformative Works are OTW 259 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: and has become just about the biggest and well known, 260 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: most well known name and fan fiction. However, as Costello 261 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: details in the article, Novic starts the story about a 262 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: decade earlier, in nineteen ninety seven, and yes, I remember 263 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: it well, that's about what I was, you know. I 264 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: was coming up reading fan fiction and the fan fiction 265 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: sites at that time, where they were spread out, they 266 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: often didn't work well. 267 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: Or at all, I remember, just like wonky. 268 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: Text, like how it was laid out, would be very 269 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: difficult to read. And sometimes these whole sites would break 270 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: and it would lose people's. 271 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: Works forever, just devastating. 272 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: Novic was a self taught programmer and a fan fiction 273 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: reader who was seeing all of this happened to her friends, 274 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: and so to help, Novic brought some Pearl scripts and 275 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: it was through this she eventually got the idea of 276 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: what was important when it came to archiving, which eventually 277 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: these ideas made it their way to AO three things 278 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: like highly searchable pages, all the tags you could ask for, 279 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: and easily understandable recommendation functions. So, once familiarized with scripting 280 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: and coding, Novic started running a holiday fan fiction exchange 281 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: in two thousand and three, which Samath has been around 282 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,479 Speaker 2: and I've like reaped the benefits of these exchanges. 283 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes. 284 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: It's sort of like a Secret Santa for fan fiction 285 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: where authors will usually there's a prompt and authors will 286 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: assign get assigned one of another author in the group, 287 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: and they write a story for that author. And it 288 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: means that like one Friday night, one hundred stories are posted. 289 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: So it's excellent, excellent, Oh it is. I love it. 290 00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: I love it. 291 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: Through the Novic really made a name for herself and 292 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: the fan fiction community, and she recounts how people started 293 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: volunteering to help her, meaning she pretty much never worked alone. 294 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: At this point. 295 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: Novic said, after a while, the community you keep around yourself. 296 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: Are the people who are reliable, who care enough about 297 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: fandom that fandom is a way of life, that are 298 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: willing to invest some time, not just in reading the 299 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: stories and writing the stories, but in the building of 300 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: the infrastructure. Two of the people Novic worked with were 301 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: an English performance and fan study scholar named Francesca Copa 302 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: and a legal scholar and former clerk for the Supreme Court, 303 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: Rebecca Tushnet. Both were highly engaged in fandom's future and 304 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: the legality of fan fiction and fan works, and on 305 00:16:44,840 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: top of that, how fan fiction was perceived, as discussed 306 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: in our past fan fiction episodes. While now people write 307 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: articles about their favorite fan fiction their recommendations. 308 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: If you like this, go read this. 309 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: You can find TikTok recommendations about fan fiction. Big movies 310 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: mention fan fiction, embrace it. When I was growing up 311 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: reading it, oh no, you did not talk about your 312 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: fan fiction. You won't be the case like your older brother. 313 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: You're reading fan fiction, you try to hide it. You 314 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 2: had like you, select group of friends that knew who 315 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: and they also read it, and the articles being written 316 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: about it were not kind at the time. 317 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: They were deriding it and even whipping up. 318 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: Fear mongering around it, like why our young girls writing 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: ever wrote a And also, yes, you'll get sued, you're 320 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: wasting your time, Why don't you do something original? All 321 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 2: that stuff, and yeah, historically it had been like this 322 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 2: for a long way, going back to the eighteen hundreds, 323 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: when religious people were worried about women writing fan. 324 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: Fiction with any romantic or sexual content. 325 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: They were these women were not upstanding and maybe even possessed. 326 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 2: So long time we felt like this as a society, 327 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 2: and a big part of this fear or derision, as 328 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: recounted in the article and as I can personally attest to, 329 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 2: was homophobia and sexism, specifically, like a real fear of 330 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: women's sexuality, since fan fiction is pretty queer, it's a 331 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: pretty queer space dominated by women. Kappa recalls receiving frantic 332 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 2: emails from authors word they'd lose their jobs if their 333 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: boss found out that they wrote fan fiction. One example 334 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: Kappa gave was from a woman who wrote, I'm going 335 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: through a divorce and my husband is going to take 336 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 2: my fick and tell the judge I'm an unfit mother 337 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: and try to take my children. How fast can you 338 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: make me disappear from the internet? Coppa also shared her 339 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: own anxieties about fandom and being asked if there was 340 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: fiction about Kirk and Spock having sex like a lot 341 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: of times when she would appear to talk about it, 342 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: that was like the thing people asked, to which she 343 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: remembers responding essentially, yep, you should go read it. She 344 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: herself had nightmares about losing her job over fan fiction, 345 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 2: and I have too, because I thought I accidentally gave 346 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: a whole flash drive of my fan fiction to a coworker. 347 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: I won't say, but I spent like a year twisting 348 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: and turning at night thinking about this. 349 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: I was gonna kill you long. I'm still scared. 350 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: I don't know the answer for sure, but I've kind 351 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 2: of come to peace with it, like I can't worry 352 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 2: about this any longer. But then I was afraid, like 353 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: what if he never saw it but he lost a flaship. 354 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 2: And then someone else saw it and they put it 355 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: up and they were like, look what this deprived girl 356 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 2: is writing. She's oh, gosh, it's a real fear. 357 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: Yes. 358 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: And then meanwhile, Tushnet was one of the first who 359 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: was outspoken in defending fan fiction on the legal side, 360 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: maintaining that almost all of it was completely legal because 361 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: this was I'm telling you at the time, everybody would 362 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: put like a disclaimer at the top, like this is 363 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: owned by Disney, I'm only playing in their sandbox and 364 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: you don't make any money. Please don't see Like people 365 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: every van fiction had something like that top. 366 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: We were very scared about getting sued or something. 367 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: So all of this came together with fan lib acting 368 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 2: as a catalyst in two thousand and seven. And as 369 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 2: I've discussed before, one of the beautiful things about fan 370 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: fiction is the community around it, and Novic and Kappa, 371 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 2: along with many others, have been a part of the 372 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 2: building and cultivating this fandom. 373 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: And they weren't just gonna let FANLB and the like 374 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: come in. 375 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: And erase that COPA said, I'm in a fandom where 376 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: somebody is hurt and another fan drives two states over 377 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: to help. And so there was a sense of urgency 378 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 2: that we had to build something before somebody else, something 379 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: shiny that would make new people who've come to fandom think, oh, 380 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: that's what fandom is. Another catalyst. Not long after Novac's 381 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: original two thousand and seven post live journals suddenly and 382 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: permanently suspended over five hundred accounts that made some kind 383 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: of mention around sexual content, and they did this without 384 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: warning to accounts that did nothing illegal and did not 385 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: violate live journal's terms. They didn't give any consistent reason why. 386 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: The CEO even called the whole thing a total mess 387 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: and promised to reinstate those wrongfully banned. But surprise, surprise, 388 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: a few months later, the same thing happened with even 389 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 2: more bands going through. And this was a major cause 390 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: for concern for fan communities when people or whole groups 391 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: could get banned without warning, and fanfiction dot Net had 392 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: a similar issue, so on new space was needed. Originally, 393 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: Novic had said she wasn't interested in building the archive herself, 394 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: but so many people reached out to her wanting to help, 395 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 2: but unclear on what to do. I'm sure of how 396 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: to organize, so Novac changed her mind. She decided on 397 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: a nonprofit to protect it from being sold if founders 398 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: ever moved on and or wanted to sell. Fan lib 399 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: itself was purchased by Disney and shut down almost a 400 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 2: year after beta testing, So that's what they were trying 401 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 2: to prevent. Through years of running events both online and off, 402 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 2: with participants the world over, of coding. Novac had a 403 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: lot of the necessary skills and knew people who had 404 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: the ones she didn't. All kinds of volunteers stepped up 405 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: with experience in law, server maintenance, design, accessibility, coding, design, 406 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: all kinds of things. 407 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: I said design twice. 408 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 2: It's very important because fans are everywhere and do everything. 409 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 2: In the words of Copa, fangirls do absolutely every job 410 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: there is. The founding members of the team put together 411 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: coding programs so that people who wanted to learn to 412 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 2: code could They had an avenue to do so. People, 413 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: mostly women, recount doing this and having fun in a 414 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: space they may have never entered or thought that they 415 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: couldn't do it or intimidated by it. They join with 416 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 2: friends and then go on to train others so that 417 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: the community could support itself. And because it was built 418 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: by volunteers who are fans, it was built around their feedback. 419 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: The tagging system, which is one of my absolute favorite things. 420 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: For instance, it's so good, it's so good, they're so creative. 421 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: So basically, if an author wants to tag a thing 422 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: in a way that might not be how a reader 423 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: searches for it, but it is the same thing. They 424 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: should end up wrangling to the same story. So they 425 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: are these people called tag wranglers. And so if I 426 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 2: type in sad murder Dad and Star Wars fan fiction, 427 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: but it's really just sad Darth Vader exactly, it should 428 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 2: still bring me to that story even if it's not 429 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 2: tagged sad murder Dad. People who worked on this the 430 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: tagging system understandably feel really proud of it, including founding 431 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: member Michelle Tepper, who told Verge, I actually have saved 432 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 2: on my phone the tag page for feels I E. 433 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: Emotional stories. 434 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: You can just scroll through and see all the different 435 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 2: version of feels. Feels exclamation part, all the fields, so 436 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 2: many feels. I'm like, this is the greatest thing I 437 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: have ever helped make happen in my career. 438 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: She worked for MTV and BBC. 439 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 3: By the way, I mean, I we used to say 440 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 3: that as a kid, all the fields. 441 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh, I have to feel all the fields. 442 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 3: That was a common phrase I used in high school 443 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 3: and hot college for real. 444 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: So Who's spying on me? 445 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: Archive of our Own is all about getting to use Samantha. 446 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: The truth comes out. 447 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: And then Lucy Pearson, who was originally a volunteer in 448 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: one of the coding initiatives and moved on to become 449 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: the chair of the Accessibility, Design and Technology Committee. Said 450 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 2: of the experience, it was really quite exhilarating coming in 451 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: on the coding side and doing something that I'd never 452 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: even really considered doing before. It really made me rethink 453 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: who I was and what I could do. So with 454 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: all of this work and organizing, AO three went into 455 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: alpha in two thousand and nine. 456 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: The launch wasn't without problems. 457 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: For one, they realized they didn't have a real way 458 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: to invite people to join. People worked around the clock 459 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 2: over Christmas holidays that year after they ran Novic's Holiday 460 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: fan fiction Exchange on AO three and it involved people 461 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: around the world and did result in a lot of 462 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: burnout in their early days. On top of that, because 463 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: it was developed by mostly white, mostly middle class, and 464 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: mostly American Western women, some of that biases went into 465 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: the programming and that has been a time topic of 466 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: much discussion and debate lately. And yes, it's something we 467 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 2: always have to keep in mind with technology around AO 468 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: three d's policies and handling of concerns of people of color. 469 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: So basically, there's three tags. Oh, there's three tags. That 470 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 2: you have to tag no matter what. And one of them, 471 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 2: as we talked about in con is rape or are 472 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: non consensual. But right now racism isn't one. So that's 473 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 2: one of the pushes is to get that as one. 474 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, a group of scholars and fans wrote 475 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: the OTW a letter reading, in part, we strongly urged 476 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: the board to take immediate steps to help make fandom 477 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: a space where all fans, particularly black, indigenous, and ethnically 478 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: marginalized fans from all over the globe can thrive. In response, 479 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: AO three launch functionalities like blocking users when locked in 480 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 2: and turning off comments, But still many on the board 481 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: lam meant how slow it is to change and how 482 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: there are still pages up from two thousand and nine. 483 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 2: The perception of fan fiction, however, has changed quite a bit. 484 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: One of the board members was on a Wizcom panel 485 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 2: soon after AO three launch called fanfic a threat or menace. 486 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: It was scheduled at ten thirty at night, and a 487 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: part of the description asked if fan fiction should be 488 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: quote accepted as a legitimate creative activity. A decade later, 489 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 2: that same board member appeared at the same conference on 490 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 2: a PACK panel in the middle of the day, explaining 491 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: to people's shock they had not always been welcomed at 492 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 2: this convention. Time magazine named AO three one of the 493 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 2: best websites in twenty thirteen, and it won a Hugo 494 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 2: Award in twenty nineteen. Copa's university, the one she'd been 495 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: afraid of being fired from for writing fan fiction, put 496 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: her picture on the front page. A part of their 497 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: success was their ability to lessen the fear of lawsuits. So, 498 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: as I said, in the early days, you would be 499 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 2: scared these big companies were to show up at your door. 500 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: You'd get in huge trouble and you'd have to explain 501 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 2: your fan fiction in front of people. 502 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: I like the legal setting. Yeah, they've been. 503 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 2: Able to lessen that fear, which is allowed fan fiction 504 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 2: to strive even more. Something else is the community. Yeah, Ultimately, 505 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 2: that keeps it running. That's what keeps it running. It's 506 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: why there are no ads. Geek culture at large is changing, 507 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: and more women in marginalized folks are claiming their space. 508 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 2: People who worked on and in some cases continue to 509 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: work on E three warn that we're still seeing bands 510 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: like what Happened on live Journal that in part spurred 511 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: all of this on other platforms, and then I just 512 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: wanted to mention this is something else. Samantha gets random 513 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: text for me about they have donation weeks and it 514 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 2: is wild. They have a goal of like fifty thousand 515 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 2: and they'll raise five hundred thousand and no time. And 516 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: so I donated to the last one and I got 517 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: these really cool cards that have a different fan fiction 518 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: trope on all of them, a different tag. 519 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: I love them, and I also love this story. 520 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: It's what we often talk about when Bridget comes on 521 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: women in marginalized folks teaching themselves, making spaces on the 522 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: internet for themselves when they don't see them or feel 523 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: threatened by like male. 524 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: Capitalist dudes coming in. 525 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: And yes, there are still problems to be addressed, absolutely 526 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: changes to be made to make sure it is as 527 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: inclusive as it can be, as beautiful as I know 528 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: it can be, and so that it can continue to 529 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: grow and thrive and be this space that I am. 530 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: So it has given me so much and I want 531 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: to make sure it's this So anyway, thank you, thank you, 532 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 2: thank you for letting me share this story. It was 533 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: a bit long, but but I just I really I 534 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: didn't know this as somebody who uses this website every 535 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: day and I thought it was a great story. 536 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: So listeners as always. 537 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: If you want to share your favorite fan fiction sites 538 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: or your favorite fan fiction, that would be great. 539 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: You are your favorite tags, that'd be great. 540 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: You can email us at SEFFIDM, mom Stuff at heurtneia 541 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom 542 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. 543 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, 544 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told 545 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: You is protiction of my Heart Radio. 546 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit 547 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: the Ihart Radio app, Apple Podcast, orhever you listen to 548 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: your favorite shows.