1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: You're not alone if you feel this way. It is 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: normal to feel anxious. It is okay to feel anxious, 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: and do not view it as this failure. You're human, right, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: and let's try to help you channel that anxiety into 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: projective means to help you get on with all of 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: those awesome goals that you're setting for yourself. 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Emily, a body here coming to you from 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: the AG studio. You are listening to Hurdle Ahle this 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: focus podcast reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: top experts and industry CEOs about their highest hies, toughest moments, 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: and everything in between. 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through. 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: These discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: and move with attention so that you can stride toward 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: your own big potential and of course have some fun 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: along the way. For today's episode of Hurdle Woman, I 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 2: am talking to doctor Alison Gabriel. 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 3: She's an organizational psychologist. 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: She's also a professor of Management and Organizations at the 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: University of Arizona, and we are talking about the anxiety trap. 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: That's right. 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about exactly what the anxiety trap 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: is that vicious cycle that many of us can fall 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,279 Speaker 2: into when it comes to feeling anxious. 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 3: Day in and day out. 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Then we address how to beat it and doctor Gabriel's 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: strategic tempts for navigating what can be frequent bouts of anxiety. Listen, 28 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: this is something that I have certainly, certainly dealt with 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,919 Speaker 2: in the past and something that I knew I wanted 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: to have an expert on the show to give us 31 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: some proper insight on the topic. Make sure you're following 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: along with Hurdle over on the Socials. That's that Hurdle podcast. 33 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: I am over at Emily a Body, and. 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 3: I'm going to keep this week's intro short and sweet. 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: With that, let's get to hurdling. 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: Today. 37 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with doctor Allison Gabriel. She's an organizational psychologist. 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: She's also a professor of management and Organizations at the 39 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: University of Arizona. 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: How you doing today, Allison? 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: I am good. It's a little early here, but I 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: am I'm going to channel our topic for the day 43 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: and say I'm excited to be here. I'm not anxious. 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: I'm excited. 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm appreciative of your time. I'm so excited 46 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: that we were able to sit down. I love when 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: Twitter acquaintances become real life podcast guests. And today we 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: are here to talk about that topic of anxiety and 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: specifically navigating what we will call the anxiety trap. 50 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: So, before you and I. 51 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: Get into talking about what the quote unquote anxiety trap 52 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: is is, why don't you give us a little bit 53 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: of your background and talk to us about what it 54 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: means to be an organizational psychologist. 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So I had a very interesting turn of 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: getting here, and so I became fascinated by just understanding emotions. 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: If you're like me, you experience a lot of emotions 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: on a given day. And I found myself in high 59 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: school working a variety of service jobs where I had 60 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: to smile, be positive, be happy, and I always found 61 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: it so stressful. And I was like, well, I wonder 62 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: if there's ways to study this to understand how we 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: can make work better for people, to help people understand 64 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: their emotions more. And that really drove me into organizational psychology. 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: So I study emotions and motivation and well being at work. 66 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: I want to help people understand their emotions, understand what 67 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: it is that they're feeling, why they're feeling it, and 68 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: just how we can do it a little bit better. 69 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest misnombers we have is 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: that we shouldn't feel certain emotions, that we shouldn't talk 71 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: about our emotions. In reality, those are huge cues of 72 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, what it is that we're doing, how we're 73 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: pursuing big goals that we might have in front of us. 74 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: And so that's really what I'm trying to do. And 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: my work day to day is how do we make 76 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: work better and how do we make you understand your 77 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: emotions a little bit better? And anxiety is one of 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: those emotions that I think is so common and so tricky. 79 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: We all feel it, and if you're like me, you 80 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: don't really know what to do with it when it 81 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: first happens to you. You just feel me the sweaty palms, 82 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: the panic, and you're like, Okay, something is off and 83 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: how do I fix that now? 84 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 3: Right? Right? 85 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 2: And I find that so interesting, the idea of us 86 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: feeling as though we're not supposed to have emotions, We're 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: not supposed to. 88 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 3: Tell people how we really feel. 89 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: It's like that blank question that we answer a zillion 90 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: times a day, how are you doing? 91 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 3: And ninety nine percent of the time you say I'm. 92 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: Good, but right, ninety nine percent of the time, that's 93 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: probably not how you're actually doing. 94 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: Right right, It's like this, it's a social script, right, 95 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: It's the small talk like, oh, I'm good, how are you? Like? 96 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: What would happen if we were walking and be like, 97 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: I'm actually really anxious today or I'm struggling, I'm fatigued, 98 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: And for me, actually, that's something I would love to 99 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: see happen, is that we feel more authentic with our 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: emotions and say, you know what, here's how I'm feeling, 101 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: and can we talk about that and can we work 102 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: together to figure out what can I do? Or is 103 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: there anything you could do to help me to make 104 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: this feeling that I kind of want to go away 105 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: go away? And that's what I tend to do with 106 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: people that know me pretty well if they asked me 107 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: that question. And I'd love to bring that and normalize 108 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: that more in conversations we have every day with other people. 109 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 2: I feel the issue with that is that a lot 110 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: of individuals aren't actually seeking the authentic and real response, 111 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: Like if I was to look at someone I don't 112 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: know very well, and be like, you know, I'm actually 113 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: pretty tired. I was up late last night because I 114 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: have a lot of anxiety about one of my close 115 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: friendships being a little rocky. At the moment that person 116 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: would look at me and be like, Okay, thanks for 117 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: TMI right right. 118 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Well, because we have these social scripts that we're always 119 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: supposed to smile and be positive and be happy, so 120 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: when you deviate that from that, people are like, wait, what, 121 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: like what did you just say? And so you know, 122 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: but I think that's getting down to who we are 123 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: authentically as people, is we feel all these emotions. Even 124 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: the most positive person in the world has days where 125 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: they're off. And let's try to break the stigma of 126 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: that and let people say, you know what, I'm off today, 127 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: I have a really big deadline and I'm kind of panicking, 128 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: and let me tell you why I'm panicking, and maybe 129 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: we could troubleshoot that together. I would love that. I 130 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: think that's what we need to head towards to make 131 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: people feel less alone in their feelings. Because when you 132 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: feel anxious or other emotions like loneliness or resentment, these 133 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: things that we view as really negative, they really start 134 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: to spiral and build on each other because you're like, oh, 135 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: it must be it's just me, right, I'm the only 136 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: one who feels anxious right now. I'm the only one 137 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: who feels lonely alert right now. So the more we 138 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: talk about it, the more I can break that down 139 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: and really help people. 140 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: You know, someone said something to me once that really 141 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: resonated with me in that you don't need to talk 142 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: about the whole thing before you're ready, but you can 143 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: talk about the fact that you are feeling some kind 144 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: of way without divulging like all the massive details of 145 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: your personal life. So maybe someone is feeling overwhelmed. I 146 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: gave that example of like a friendship being on the rocks. 147 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: You could just say something like I'm feeling so overwhelmed lately, 148 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: And that in itself is like highly relatable because of 149 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: what we got at as we got into this conversation 150 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: that people aren't always opening up about the fact that 151 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: not everything is you know, roses and sunshine all the time, right. 152 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, And that's something you know, if I'm going 153 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: to study this, right, if I'm going to study emotions, 154 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: and I study it mostly with employees at work, with coworkers, 155 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: then I'm going to model it. And so this is 156 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: something that I try to do when I talk to 157 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: someone where, even if I don't know them super well, 158 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: and they ask how I am, I'm like, oh, you know, 159 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm really tired today, like Eleanor Or Toddler gave me 160 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: a run for my money yesterday. I'm exhausted, I'm behind, 161 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm stressed. And then we kind of talk about that 162 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: and usually they'll reciprocate and say, oh, yeah, you know what, 163 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm kind of feeling that way too, And it to me, 164 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: it kind of breaks down barriers and social conversations because 165 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: it immediately bonds you to somebody else like oh, yeah, 166 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: you're you're human too, like you're feeling stuff, Like we're 167 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: both things. Look at us, look at us now. 168 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Eleanor. I'm assuming being your child and not 169 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: a coworker. 170 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, Eleanor, Yeah, I don't have a coworker running 171 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: around my house a yelling at me. It's just a 172 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: two year old. 173 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: Just a two year old, Okay, Okay, Well, as I mentioned, 174 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: we're here today to specifically home in on the emotion 175 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: or the feeling of anxiety. So why don't you kick 176 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: things off for us by talking to us about what 177 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: it means to fall into the anxiety trap, because that 178 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: is more than just sporadically feeling anxious, right. 179 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: Right, And so yeah, we talk about anxiety, there's levels 180 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: to it, right. So you have the extreme, which is 181 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: just chronic kind of generalized anxiety disorders, and that's not 182 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: really what I want to talk about today. I want 183 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: to talk about the everyday anxiety, the sweaty palms, the 184 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: heart palpitations, the tension you start to feel inside of 185 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: like oh shoot, something big is coming up, or I 186 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I can't handle what's about to 187 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: happen to me. And what is really really tricky with 188 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: anxiety is if we don't recognize that and acknowledge it, 189 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: it can start to build on each other. And so 190 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: a really common thing that happens to people when they 191 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: feel anxious is that they'll continue to ruminate on it. 192 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: They'll be like, oh, yeah, like I am worrying, I 193 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: am anxious, I'm really concerned about this thing that's going 194 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: to happen, and that just gets more anxiety. And so 195 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do, and what I've been studying 196 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: for a couple of years now, is how do we 197 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: break that cycle, right, because anxiety doesn't feel good. We 198 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: all know that feeling I always you know, if you 199 00:09:58,440 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: run a race and you get those like kind of 200 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: butterflies in your stomach, imagine that just happening all day 201 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: or on and off all day long. And so the 202 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: good news is that there are things we can do 203 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: to reduce the anxiety from happening. And one thing I 204 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: think we underestimate is how proactive anxiety can make us. 205 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: So a really adaptive thing we can do when we 206 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: feel anxious is take a step back and say, Okay, 207 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: feeling this, I think it's because of X. Whatever big 208 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: goal you have for the day, is what can I 209 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: proactively do to fix this today, tomorrow, the day after that, 210 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: and start to chip away at it. Right. We've studied 211 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: this in job seekers. We've studied this, which is like 212 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: everyday employees. We study it with athletes. Right, of how 213 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: can I take my anxiety and really make it inform 214 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: my goals so I can get the anxiety to reduce 215 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: or what I think is really fun, flip it into excitement. 216 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: Because anxiety and excitement actually feel the same way in 217 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: our body. So when we're anxious, our heart races when 218 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: we're excited, our heart races, and so we can actually 219 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: reappraise what we're thinking to get anxiety to turn into excitement. 220 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: And that's pretty cool, especially when you think about running 221 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: a race, giving a big speech, having a interaction, maybe 222 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: you're kind of anxious or nervous about reframing. It can 223 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: be really really adaptive for you. 224 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: I feel when you fall into the anxiety trap, so 225 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: to speak, that as you use I believe the word 226 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: can feel really overwhelming. 227 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: That then starts to. 228 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: Get to a place where you literally just feel so 229 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: debilitated by it and incapable of doing what you're explaining. 230 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 3: Could be really helpful. 231 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: So for those people that are in the place of 232 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: what feels like the struggle and the overwhelm, what's like 233 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: a simple strategy that you may offer them, or a 234 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: series of strategies that you might offer to them so 235 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: that they can slowly crawl their way out of it. 236 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, you nailed it. Really kind of makes you 237 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: fall into yourself, is the way I describe anxiety when 238 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: it's happening to you day to day. So the biggest 239 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: thing I think you can do and that I do 240 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 1: this myself, I'm somebody who's always struggled with anxiety, which 241 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: is why I study it. There's a joke in or 242 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: feel that we study the things we're not good at. 243 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: So I study employee well being and anxiety because I 244 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: struggle with both of those. And the biggest thing that 245 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: I do that fits with our research, that fits with 246 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: the work we're doing, is to goal set, to say, 247 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: here's my big goal, right, and let me break it 248 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: down now into all of the little things I can 249 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: do to cross it off my list and to start 250 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: to feel more control. Because anxiety crops up what we 251 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: feel like parts of our life are out of control, 252 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: that our ideal of whatever we want to have happened 253 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: to us is not consistent with where we currently are. 254 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: For me, that describes like every big goal I've ever set, 255 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: I'll look at it and it feels monstrous and I'm like, 256 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: how am I ever going to get there? That's stabilitating. 257 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm just going to ruminate on it. Instead. What I 258 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: can do is say today I can chip away at 259 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: this one thing and take a breath. Then I can 260 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: go on to the next thing and the next. So 261 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: really goal setting and saying this is my big goal, 262 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: here's all the things that are going to feed into that. 263 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: That is really really adaptive and it's going to help 264 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: you rain in what feels completely uncontrollable to. 265 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: You, right right, So smart goal setting specific, measurable, attainable, 266 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: relevant time dound. 267 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 3: We talk about that on the show all the time. 268 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: But yeah, that strategy of being really intentional about the 269 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: things you want to get done for the day is 270 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: maybe making a to do list of three things that 271 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 2: are within your wheelhouse instead of twenty two that just 272 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: feel like the big monster the second that you put 273 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: your eyes down and look at a pad of paper. 274 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: Right exactly, And yeah, the smart acronym, that's something I 275 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: talked to executives about my undergrudges about it. It's so 276 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 1: informative and it's so simple and actionable, and yet I 277 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: think when we feel anxious, that's one of the things 278 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: that goes completely out the window, right because the anxiety, 279 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: for me, at least, it always manifests this really cloudy 280 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: feeling where I'm just like, oh, I feel like I'm 281 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: swirling in it. I can't really see what it is 282 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: that I want to do, and so I need to 283 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: physically goal set and start to write it out and 284 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: say all right, this is what I'm gonna do to 285 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: make this more actionable today. Here's how it's gonna help 286 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: me tomorrow, and here's going to help me the day after. 287 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: That kind of Caterintuitively, one of the worst things you 288 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: can do when you feel anxious is to tell yourself 289 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: to calm down. It's completely incongruent with being anxious. So 290 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: if your heart's racing and pounding out of your chest 291 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: and you tell yourself to calm down, that's not going 292 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: to do anything right. You're gonna be like, I can't 293 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: calm down. I feel my heart. It's not going to work. 294 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: But regulating that and trying to plan to reappraise, all 295 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: those things are really helpful for you when you feel anxious. 296 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love 297 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: to my friends at AG one from Athletic Greens. 298 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: I have been on. 299 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: A kick of really thinking about my immunity. 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Again, 331 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: that web address is Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle to 332 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: get freebies with your first purchase today. 333 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: Let's get back to it now. 334 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: A lot of what you described, kind of feeling like 335 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: you're swirling, so to speak, that feeling of overwhelm. You know, 336 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: there are so many different things that those symptoms, so 337 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: to speak, could be in line with. Maybe it's burnout here, 338 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: we're talking about anxiety. I know when people that I've 339 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: spoken to about their experience with depression, those have been 340 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: examples of maybe what they felt during that time as well. 341 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: For someone who's unsure perhaps of what it is. 342 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 2: That they're really navigating, what advice do you have to 343 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: offer them so that they can move forward in a 344 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: productive and helpful way. 345 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: That is the big question, And as I said, that's 346 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: something that I've had to work through. You know, the 347 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: last couple of years have been super, super difficult as 348 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: a new mom and a working mom, I've had depression 349 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: and anxiety and really had to try to figure out 350 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: where are all of those sources of anxiety or depression 351 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: coming from. What are the things that make me feel 352 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: good and help get all that back into control. And 353 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: so when you're feeling anxious or you're feeling depressed, because 354 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: those emotions can co occur with each other pretty frequently, 355 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: which probably isn't too much of a surprise. Again, really 356 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: trying to take a step back, and I like to 357 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: think about my life and my world as like the 358 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: different roles I have. Right, So I'm a mother, I'm 359 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: an employee, I'm a runner, I'm a wife, I'm a friend, daughter, 360 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: all these things and try to say, okay, what are 361 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: the big goals going on in each of those domains 362 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: and really start to map it out, because for me, 363 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: what that helped me do, and we see this happen 364 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: with people that we study. When you can isolate it, 365 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: you could say, all right, you know what, It's not 366 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: that I'm anxious in all of these domains. It's not 367 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: that I'm depressed or that I'm fatigued or burnout in 368 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: all these domains. It's this one, right, It's this worker role, 369 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: or this actually happened to me with marathonic. I had 370 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: to take a step back because the process was really 371 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: burning me out and I wasn't getting any joy from it. 372 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: So I had to switch to you know, shorter races 373 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: and figure out how I could regain control. So I 374 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: like to map out, here are all the roles I have. 375 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: Here are the big goals, and which goals am I 376 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: excited about? Which ones are kind of helping me thrive 377 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: and bring me joy and which ones aren't. Where's the 378 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: anxiety coming from? Where's the depression come And let's isolate 379 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: those out then and decide, you know, do I need 380 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: to modify that situation? Do I need to refocus on 381 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: different elements of it? Do I need to completely reappraise 382 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: what it is that I'm doing? Do I need to 383 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: abandon it? 384 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: Right? 385 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: And we talk I talk about this all the time, 386 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: that this idea of like goal abandonment, of letting go 387 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: of a goal. We view it as like this like, oh, 388 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: you failed, when in reality, I think what you just 389 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: did is you reclaimed part of yourself, right, you said, 390 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: you know what that wasn't serving me anymore? So that's 391 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: where the anxiety was coming from that was making me 392 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: feel like garbage by right, and that was a hard 393 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: lesson in pill for me to swallow for a long time. 394 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: But once I did, I was like, oh, look at that. 395 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: I just freed up a huge amount of my emotional energy. 396 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: So that's what I like to do whenever I'm like 397 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: in the oh, my gosh, I can't go on kind 398 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: of moments, where's it coming from? And how do we 399 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: fix that? It doesn't mean abandoning it or changing it 400 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: or whatever that maybe for you. 401 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and thanks for sharing that experience, because I feel 402 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: like that experience. 403 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: Is one that's super relatable. 404 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: Right. This idea of goal abandonment is something that so 405 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: many people can really sympathize with, and the thought that 406 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 2: we need to come back to the joy in going 407 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: after the things that we quote unquote want, and if 408 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: there is no joy in your process, then maybe you 409 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: need to take a step back and reevaluate that goal 410 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: that you originally set for yourself. So that example that 411 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 2: you gave of falling back from marathoning and looking at 412 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: shorter distances, it involves a lot of the same methods, 413 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 2: but they are very different. And so the thought process 414 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: that you went through and the wisdom that it took 415 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 2: to identify, Okay, what would allow me to do this 416 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: thing that I like and actually enjoy it is really 417 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: good for. 418 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: You, right right? Well, and it's I think as a society, 419 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: right and we're just programmed to not want to do that, right. 420 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: We like the biggest, a big goal goals, and we 421 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: view anything that falls short of that as a failure. 422 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: And instead, I just think it's you recrafting your life 423 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: in a way that serves you where you are right now. 424 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: You know, I started running marathons and studying emotions in 425 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: graduate school, right, and graduate school ali very very different 426 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: than thirty six year old Ali professor, new mom and 427 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: a pandemic, right, Like those goals that I have these 428 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: different life stages kind of conflict, and it took a 429 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: while to realize that. But then once I did, I 430 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: was like, oh, look, I can make all these things 431 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: fit a little bit better. I can combat feelings of 432 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: depression or anxiety or fatigue and just recraft my life 433 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: in a way that's serving me right now. And we 434 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: see lots of powerful examples of that. We're actually studying 435 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: working moms who have postpartum depression right now. And that's 436 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: a big part of their journey is saying, you know what, 437 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: I've had this really difficult thing happened to me, and 438 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: now I'm going to radically recraft my life in a 439 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: way that's going to serve me finally. Right, I'm going 440 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: to put me first, I'm going to make passionate towards myself. 441 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to be compassionate towards other people and abandon 442 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: some goals and create some new ones. And anxiety can 443 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: be one of those emotions that drives that kind of process. 444 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 2: Right, and sometimes doing what's right for you, so to speak, 445 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: can be or can feel a little counterintuitive, which makes 446 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: it even more difficult. Uh So I think that's important 447 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: to highlight. I also want to go back to perhaps 448 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: some of the solutions or the strategies that we can 449 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: use in the anxiety a trap. I know that we 450 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: talked about setting smart goals and starting with little doables, 451 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: but beyond that, what other advice would you offer to 452 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 2: someone who does feel as though they are in that 453 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: non beatable unbeatable cycle. 454 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: Well, I think there's some really practical things you could do. 455 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: One is not be a shame to talk to somebody 456 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: about that I think we avoid it. We think that 457 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, work or you know running or mother whatever, 458 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: it should not be this anxiety crippling experience, right, that 459 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: should not be how we feel. So if you know, 460 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this today and you're like, I've 461 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: done this, I've tried setting goals, I've tried kind of 462 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: clarifying this, I think talking about this with somebody, asking 463 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: for help, reaching out. There's a lot of really good organizations. 464 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: Anxiety and Depression Association of America has some awesome online 465 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: resources to kind of help you figure out is this 466 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: a chronic disorder or you know condition they need to 467 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: talk to somebody about, or is this everyday anxiety and 468 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: how do I navigate those? So I know I was 469 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: resistant to that for a while, but talking about that 470 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: and getting help is really really important. The other thing, though, 471 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: is that I think again disclosing this to other people 472 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: in your life is actually really important too. So when 473 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about setting smart goals and doing that, that's 474 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: very internal, right, that's you doing work on you. But 475 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: I think also sharing with people close to you, right, 476 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: close friends, close family members, where you're struggling and getting 477 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: that instrumental and emotional social support for them is really 478 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: really crucial. You know, reaching out saying you know, I 479 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: fairly anxious about this work deadline, or you know this 480 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: relationship that I have that feels off, you can get 481 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: somebody else listening to you to say, hey, here's what 482 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: I hear you saying, and let me offer you emotional support, 483 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: or even better, you know what I went through that too, 484 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: and let me talk to you about what happened to 485 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: me in my experience, or here's some resources that really 486 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: helped me work through that. Because again, if we just 487 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: sit in these emotions, which is kind of what we're 488 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: programmed to do from a really young age, is to 489 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: not share things if it's not all like sunshine and 490 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: roses and like glitter, right, we're programmed to kind of 491 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: sit in them. But that makes it feel really isolating. 492 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: It feels like nobody else understands what we're experiencing. So 493 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: reaching out and connecting to trusted, close others is something 494 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: else I would really really encourage people to do. If 495 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're. 496 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,239 Speaker 2: Feeling this now, such helpful advice and so important to 497 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: distinguish that there is clearly a difference between talking to 498 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 2: one of your dearest friends or a family member about 499 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: what you're going through and chatting with a licensed professional, 500 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: right and I know that there are so many what 501 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: could be considered barriers to entry when it comes to 502 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 2: consulting with a professional. 503 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 3: That can also feel really overwhelming, which. 504 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: Isn't helpful when you already feel overwhelmed. So for those 505 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: individuals that are in that predicament right now trying to 506 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: get the help that they so desperately want, what would 507 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: you say to them? I, having been there, I would 508 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: say to just hold on and again try to find 509 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 2: people in your immediate life that can serve you right 510 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: now in this moment. 511 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: For me, as somebody who studies as somebody who experienced 512 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: a lot of these emotions, knowing that there was somebody 513 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: there that I could pick up the phone and talk 514 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: to immediately who would take me as my whole, authentic, vulnerable, 515 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: emotionally messy self was really really really important for me. 516 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: That was one of my best friends, and also my 517 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: husband Mike, who was just kind of watching all this 518 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: unfold for me personally. So it is not a permanent 519 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: solution to getting more significant help. If that's something that 520 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: would serve you but I think in that moment, having 521 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: that safe person to call and be like, yep, this 522 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: is a rough day is so important to find that person. 523 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: And if you don't have that person, come find me now. 524 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: But truly, like I think reaching out to somebody or 525 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: connecting to somebody, it's happened. I've made so many friends 526 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: through like Twitter and Instagram and like virtual friends through 527 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: this process, and it's been because we've connected, We've seen 528 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: things that each other's sharing and we're like, hey, going 529 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: through that too, And then you start to build these 530 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: friendships around the shared experience and that's really cool. 531 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: And I think that what you're sharing here is like 532 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: one of the benefits that could happen from a difficult situation, right, 533 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: the difficult situation being this constant cycle of the anxiety trap. 534 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: What other benefit can we find when we get through 535 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: a struggle such as this. 536 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing that we find is just 537 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: this newfound resilience, right, this new found understanding of who 538 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: you are of what you value. For me, that's you know, 539 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: been really really life altering of having a couple of 540 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: rough years where there was a lot of anxiety and 541 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: just varying feelings of feeling really isolated and not knowing 542 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: what was going on, and now it's given a lot 543 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: of clarity and giving me the confidence that, you know what, 544 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: I can bounce back, right, I can go through really 545 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: difficult things and bounce back from that. And so what 546 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: we'll see is that when people go through a lot 547 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: of anxiety or expiraling or depression or loneliness, these really 548 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, difficult emotions to work through, they come out 549 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: on the other side with this resilience, with this coping, 550 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: with this better understanding of what it is that they want. 551 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: And I think the other added bonus is there tends 552 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: to be a lot more self compassion for themselves. We 553 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: are really harm on ourselves when we feel what we 554 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: study people who have anxiety at work, they often think 555 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: that it has a lot of guilt and a lot 556 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 1: of shame, like, oh, I can't believe I can't handle this. 557 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm so mad at myself that I can't cope. I 558 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: will never get over how hard we were on ourselves. 559 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: And so when we come out of this, the acts 560 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: of self compassion, of giving ourselves a break, of saying, 561 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: you know what, I was good today, right, I got 562 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: done what I needed to get done. It wasn't perfect, 563 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: but it was good. I think that is a really 564 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: important takeaway that I've experienced in my own life, and 565 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: that against some of these working women who are just phenomenal. 566 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: We've heard them talk about as well, like, Yeah, I 567 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: got to their side and that's pretty that's pretty darn good, 568 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: and I'm proud of myself for that. 569 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: We love that. We love resilience here on Hurdle. 570 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: Is there anything else that we should let the folks 571 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: know when it comes to navigating the anxiety trap? We 572 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: haven't touched on just yet. 573 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: I think we've covered a lot. I think the biggest 574 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: thing is just you're not alone if you feel this way. 575 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: It is normal to feel anxious. It is okay to 576 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: feel anxious, and do not view it as this failure. 577 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: You're human, right, and let's try to help you channel 578 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: that anxiety into productive means to help you get on 579 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: with all of those awesome goals that you're setting for yourself. 580 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: We love it. 581 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: Awesome, Doctor Alison Gabriel, appreciate you for your time today. 582 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: You offered your ears. So how do the hurdlers keep 583 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 2: up with you? How do they follow along with you? 584 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: Give us all of your details. 585 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: Sure, sure, so, I have a website. You can find 586 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: me at Alison Gabriel dot com and I'm under LinkedIn 587 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: or on LinkedIn under the same name. You can also 588 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at profas Gabriel and you'll see 589 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: me talking about research and food cravings and then usually 590 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: ran the pictures of Eleanor and our herd of cats 591 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: that we have somehow acquired over the last few Love. 592 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 3: It, you love it. 593 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily Embodi and at Hurdle Podcast Another 594 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: Hurdle Conquered. 595 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.