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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined with our guest super producer.

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Speaker 3: Back to the freight train, Williams. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: As you are listening to this on the day this

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Speaker 3: podcast publishes, it is an infamous anniversary in the United States.

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Speaker 3: Sixty years ago, the President of the US John Fitzgerald Kennedy,

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Speaker 3: was assassinated November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, in a

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Speaker 3: presidential motorcade in Dallas, Texas. The tragedy of this day

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Speaker 3: fundamentally altered the course of American and indeed global history.

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Speaker 3: Decades later, the world entire still has questions about what

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Speaker 3: led to this murder and how it occurred. We've asked

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Speaker 3: these questions previously in Stuff they Don't Want you to Know,

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Speaker 3: But tonight we are immensely fortunate to be joined with

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Speaker 3: the legendary director, the actor, the activist the writer now

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Speaker 3: podcaster Rob Reiner, creator and co host of Who Killed JFK?

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us, Rob, It is a profound honor.

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Speaker 4: Oh thank you, Ben, this is so sweet to you.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 5: Can I just get my fanboy thing out of the

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Speaker 5: way really quick? But this is Spinal Tap is my

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Speaker 5: favorite movie of all time and that force everyone in

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Speaker 5: my life to watch it while I literally tear up

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Speaker 5: because it's very nice and hilarious and it's just everything

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Speaker 5: I love about rock and roll.

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Speaker 4: It's so good. Well, I hear you're work it. It'll

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Speaker 4: make you feel good that we're now engaged in the

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Speaker 4: filming a sequel. We're going to do it. It's the

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Speaker 4: first time in forty years we came up with an

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Speaker 4: it and the four of us are going to get

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Speaker 4: out there and and make a sequel to Spinal Tap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, take it.

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Speaker 2: The three of us are musicians and uh we we've

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Speaker 2: you know, got video degrees and everything. So we we

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Speaker 2: just are right in that exact place where this is

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Speaker 2: spinal like where Spinal Tap just is like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's a mecha.

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Speaker 5: It looms large and I just wrapped up a podcast

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Speaker 5: documentary about the Stones in seventy two, and I had

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Speaker 5: a lot of tape I was working with from them

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Speaker 5: from those days, and I realized, I think you were

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Speaker 5: doing their voices. I think the spinal tap guys are

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Speaker 5: the Stones circa seventy two, with their soft spoken, little

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Speaker 5: British littlets something to it. Maybe I'm wrong, but.

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Speaker 4: In the film, there's a fine line between stupid and

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Speaker 4: clever and try there, We try to hit that line,

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Speaker 4: and isn't that?

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Speaker 3: Isn't that also in some ways part of the discourse

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Speaker 3: that has surrounded uh, the allegations of conspiracy in the

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Speaker 3: JFK assassination.

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Speaker 4: You know, look at that. Wow, I gotta I gotta

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Speaker 4: put a neck brace on uh and call my insurance

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Speaker 4: agent because.

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Speaker 5: He's got a point, though, Rob stupid and clever, that

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Speaker 5: that's something that we see a lot with conspiracy stuff,

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Speaker 5: because yeah, that's true. Maybe clever is a bit of

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Speaker 5: a misnomer, but it's all about like how close are

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Speaker 5: there facts involved? Is there some logical reasoning behind it?

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Speaker 5: Or are people just passing the time right?

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Speaker 4: Right? No, you're you're exactly right. Because the name, the

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Speaker 4: words conspiracy theory have gotten a weird take now because everybody, uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, who's aspiring to you know, QAnon or disinformation

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Speaker 4: or they're going on wacky websites and things. Anybody who

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Speaker 4: talks about conspiracy theory has got a tinfoil hat and

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Speaker 4: you know is running around, you know, spotting UFOs all

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Speaker 4: over the place. But there are actual conspiracies that actually happened,

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Speaker 4: and this is one of them. And the podcast that

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Speaker 4: we do Who Killed JFK? That I do with Solo

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Speaker 4: Dad O'Brien is the deepest dive and the most comprehensive

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Speaker 4: look at that conspiracy and how it happened. And you know,

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Speaker 4: as we say in the podcast, it's the greatest murder

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Speaker 4: mystery in the history of America. Nothing like it has

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Speaker 4: ever happened before. And the America was traumatized. There was

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Speaker 4: a concentrated trauma put at the heart of America at

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Speaker 4: that point, and people who were alive at the time

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Speaker 4: will never get over it. It was a colective trauma that

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Speaker 4: gripped the entire country and we're still feeling the effects

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Speaker 4: of it today.

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Speaker 3: And that note about never getting over it, there's something

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Speaker 3: there's something poetic with the beginning of episode one. I

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Speaker 3: think maybe we Also, before we start with the first

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Speaker 3: episode of Who Killed JFK, let's travel back, if it's

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Speaker 3: all right, to your experience to the moment the day

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Speaker 3: of the assassination. Again, it's November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 3: just a few days before Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 4: You are, I.

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Speaker 3: Believe, sixteen years old, right. Could you paint the picture

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Speaker 3: for us and for our listeners of that experience.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean anybody who was alive at that time

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Speaker 4: and was aware knows exactly where they were when they

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Speaker 4: heard that news. You can talk to anybody, they'll tell

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Speaker 4: you exactly where they were what was happening. I was sixteen,

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Speaker 4: as you said, I was in high school. I was

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Speaker 4: in my physics class, and I'll never forget a student

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Speaker 4: walked in whispered into the teacher's ear, and he turned

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Speaker 4: to us and he said, I have some terrible news,

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Speaker 4: and he related to us what had happened to the president,

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Speaker 4: and we were all just stunned and shocked. We were

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Speaker 4: sent home from school. Everybody was sent home, and we

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Speaker 4: turned on our televisions and we watched none stop a

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Speaker 4: television on the reports up until and I was one

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Speaker 4: of the people who watched the person who was accused

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Speaker 4: of killing President Kennedy Lee Harvey Oswald. I watched him

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Speaker 4: get assassinated on live television. I mean it actually happened.

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Speaker 4: I watched this man. We found out his name was

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Speaker 4: Jack Ruby, who's a local nightclub owner of a place

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Speaker 4: called the Carousel Nightclub. He went into the Dallas police station,

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Speaker 4: drew a gun, and stood right in front of Lee

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Speaker 4: Harvey Oswald then shot him to death. And for many

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Speaker 4: of us, that was the moment at which we said,

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Speaker 4: what the heck is going on here? The man who

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Speaker 4: has supposedly killed the president is now being murdered himself.

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Speaker 4: Why is that happening? Who's doing this? Who's behind all this?

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Speaker 2: You're talking to three guys who were born in the eighties,

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Speaker 2: so you know, when we first encounter this, we get

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Speaker 2: to an age where, you know, our parents decide we

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Speaker 2: can learn about the JFK assassination, or our schools decide

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Speaker 2: we are allowed to learn about it. We have all

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Speaker 2: of this information already built in, right, but in going

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Speaker 2: back and listening to Who Killed JFK this podcast, we're

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Speaker 2: being presented with this information as it was happening, right,

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Speaker 2: So we get that experience that you're sharing with us now, Rob.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things you mentioned early on is

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Speaker 2: how comedians like Mort Sahl and Dick Gregory were kind

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Speaker 2: of they're using their material as a way for America

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Speaker 2: to begin to process this information, right, Yes, Yes, And

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Speaker 2: what's interesting about that is these guys were both brilliant

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Speaker 2: social and political satirists.

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Speaker 4: These were the most incisive, well observed type people who

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Speaker 4: looked at American life and observed it in the most

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Speaker 4: intelligent and fine way. And when they diverged from their

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Speaker 4: normal routines. In the case of Mortsaul, I was nineteen

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Speaker 4: when I watched him go. I was opening for The

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Speaker 4: Hungry Eye for a singer named Carmen McCrae, who's a

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Speaker 4: great jazz singer. And when I would finish my set

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Speaker 4: with my partner Larry Bishop, we'd go into this smaller

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Speaker 4: room where Dick where mort Saul was not doing his

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Speaker 4: normal routine. He was only talking about the Kennedy assassination

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Speaker 4: and the Warren Commission report on the assassination had come

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Speaker 4: out and he was attacking it, saying it's full of lies,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't make any sense. And that and people like

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Speaker 4: Dick Gregory, who went on Geraldo Rivera's show, and for

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Speaker 4: the first time they exposed the Zapruder film, which was

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Speaker 4: the film that the only film that really captures the

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Speaker 4: assassination by a guy named Abraham Zapruder, was a local dressmaker.

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Speaker 4: Those people, those two comedians, really started the conversation moving forward.

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Speaker 4: People started getting engaged, and those people could draw your attention.

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Speaker 4: They were great speakers, They were great incisive commentators on

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Speaker 4: the times. When I saw Mark Saul, I started really

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Speaker 4: getting into it. I read a book called Rush to

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Speaker 4: Judgment by a writer named Mark Lane, and he completely

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Speaker 4: disbanded the Warren Commission and pointed out the inconsistencies, the

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Speaker 4: things that were left out, the lies. When you started

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Speaker 4: getting into realizing that this was not only a cover

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Speaker 4: up by the government of what had happened, but it

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Speaker 4: uncovered as you track it over the years, this conspiracy

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Speaker 4: that American forces got together to kill an American president

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Speaker 4: in broad daylight on an American street. And the more

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Speaker 4: you look into it, the more disturbing it is. And

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Speaker 4: you know, I was saying that, you know, you look

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Speaker 4: at something like this and that sixty years has gone

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Speaker 4: by and unless you're following it closely. There are revelations

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Speaker 4: that come out in drips and drabs, and when they

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Speaker 4: come out, unless you're following it all, you don't know

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Speaker 4: what that has to do with anything else. So this

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Speaker 4: podcast what it does is it takes sixty years of revelations,

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Speaker 4: puts it all in one place and hopefully makes it

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Speaker 4: understandable to people and completely you know, fills in the

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Speaker 4: puzzle of what actually happened on that desk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is something that I think is key

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Speaker 3: the contextualization. We were talking a little bit off air rup.

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Speaker 3: People who are somewhat familiar with the JFK assassination and

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Speaker 3: the ins and outs of it may be surprised to

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Speaker 3: learn that documents pertaining to it were classified until quite

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Speaker 3: recently and new information begins to emerge. Who killed JFK?

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Speaker 3: Does a phenomenal job of connecting some of these puzzle pieces.

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Speaker 3: And already you've mentioned some very bright points about this

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Speaker 3: that remain controversial, especially the Warren Commission, which I think

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Speaker 3: you do a supreme and scrupulous job of pointing out

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Speaker 3: some possible conflicts of interest possible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, well, guys, I'm going to rob Here's what's

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Speaker 4: interesting about this Yeah, there were huge conflicts of interests.

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Speaker 4: First of all, there's still almost five thousand documents that

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Speaker 4: have not been released to the public, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we may never see those documents. But the conflict of

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Speaker 4: inters that you're talking about, and there were two investigations.

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Speaker 4: People have to understand. There are two official government investigation

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Speaker 4: of the assassination of JFK. The first was the Warren Commission,

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Speaker 4: which came out in nineteen sixty four. The second one

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Speaker 4: was done by a group called the House Select Committee

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Speaker 4: on Assassinations, and now it came out in the mid seventies.

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Speaker 4: It came out to actually the report came out in

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Speaker 4: the late seventies. Both of those investigations were compromised. And

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Speaker 4: the way in which that happened is in the first investigation,

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Speaker 4: the Warren Commission, Lyndon Johnson was very concerned about things

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Speaker 4: getting out that might implicate the Russians or the Cubans

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Speaker 4: in a way that might ultimately cause a nuclear war,

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Speaker 4: and he wanted to avoid that. He didn't want any

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Speaker 4: information to come into the investigation that would do anything

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Speaker 4: but point to Lee Harvey Oswald as a loan gunman.

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Speaker 4: So what he did is they put together This commission

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Speaker 4: headed up by Chief Justice Earl Warren, but his name

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Speaker 4: was mostly titular. In this they put in charge of

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Speaker 4: the gatekeeper sense of all information coming from the CIA,

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Speaker 4: into the hands of a man named Alan Dulles. Alan

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Speaker 4: Dulles was the first civilian head of the CIA in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen forties. Now, Alan Dulles was one of the

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Speaker 4: architects of the Bay of Pigs invasion. The Bay of

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Speaker 4: Pigs invasion was an attempt by the to train Cuban

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Speaker 4: exiles to go into Cuba and overthrow Castro, who had

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Speaker 4: overthrown Battista just a few years prior. Now, Alan Dulles

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Speaker 4: had this plan with the CIA, working with these Cuban exiles,

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Speaker 4: they went into the Bay of They went into Cuba,

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Speaker 4: and they did invade, and they thought that Kennedy would

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Speaker 4: offer air support, that once the troops got in there,

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Speaker 4: they would send American planes and they would take back Cuba.

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Speaker 4: Kennedy told them before the and by the way, Kennedy

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Speaker 4: inherited this plan from Eisenhower and Nixon. He was only

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Speaker 4: in office for two or three months when they when

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Speaker 4: they did this, he told them ahead of time, I

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Speaker 4: will not send American airplanes because I don't want the

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Speaker 4: United States footprint. I don't want any fingerprints on to

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Speaker 4: be tracked back to the United States. He told them that,

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Speaker 4: and Dulles said, there's no way, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 4: Once we get in there, he's going to see this

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Speaker 4: and he's gonna want to send those those airplanes. He

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Speaker 4: never did, and what happened was all the Cuban Xes.

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Speaker 4: They were slaughtered on the beaches in Cuba, and it

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Speaker 4: was a complete and utter disaster. Months later, Kennedy fires

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Speaker 4: Alan Dulles, and very you know, is known to have said,

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Speaker 4: I want to take the CIA and break it up

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Speaker 4: into a thousand pieces. He was furious at the CIA

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Speaker 4: because they were doing these covert activities without presidential approvals.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they were doing them separately and then you know,

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Speaker 4: then reporting back to the president. So he wanted to

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Speaker 4: get rid of it. He puts Johnson puts Alan Dulles

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Speaker 4: in charge of any information coming from the CIA into

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Speaker 4: the Warrant Commission, and you know, obviously nothing got in. No, No,

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Speaker 4: we didn't know. We didn't know about the CIA's connection

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Speaker 4: to the mafia. We didn't know about the CIA's extra

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Speaker 4: judicial killings. Of heads of state, which they did many

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Speaker 4: of We didn't know about a lot of the involvement

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Speaker 4: with the Cubans in Cuba. We didn't know any of

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Speaker 4: this stuff. So Alan Dalles is compromising that. Now. The

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Speaker 4: big revelation, the big, big, big revelation was in the

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Speaker 4: second investigation that was for the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

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Speaker 4: And we bring this up in the podcast as well.

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Speaker 4: And this didn't come out, This didn't come out until

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Speaker 4: years after the investigation. But the man put in charge

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Speaker 4: of being the liaison between the House Investigation and the

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Speaker 4: CIA was a man named George Joannedes. You've never heard

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Speaker 4: of his name, you don't know who he is, but

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Speaker 4: I can. What I'll tell you is George joaned was

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Speaker 4: a former CIA agent and he was the head of

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Speaker 4: a counter intelligence program that developed assets, one of which

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Speaker 4: was Lee Harvey Oswalal. So the guy who was the

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Speaker 4: gatekeeper again to the CIA was a very guy who

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Speaker 4: they wanted to who they should have questioned. We interviewed

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Speaker 4: Robert Blakey, who was the counsel to the House Select Committee.

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Speaker 4: He had no idea that this is what Joe and

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Speaker 4: Edes did. And when he found out many years later

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Speaker 4: he was furious. He said, if I had known then

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Speaker 4: what I knew now, I would have put Joe and

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Speaker 4: Edes on the stand. He was the answer to many

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Speaker 4: of our questions of how the CIA was involved in

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Speaker 4: the assassination. So you know, there you have two big

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Speaker 4: pieces of information there, separated by men many many years,

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Speaker 4: and we try to put it all together in one place.

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Speaker 3: And uh, there's also the question a lot of our

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Speaker 3: fellow listeners will be asking, which is is there such

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Speaker 3: thing as a former CIA agent?

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Speaker 4: It makes you think, right, no, there's there's no such thing.

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Speaker 4: I mean a CIA agent. You you you you may

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Speaker 4: not be active in the way you were when you

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Speaker 4: were being paid by the agency, but you have security

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Speaker 4: clearance and uh, you have it for your life. And

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Speaker 4: you you know, it was an interesting thing recently with

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Speaker 4: a Trump I think try to strip uh And did

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Speaker 4: I think strip John Brennan of his security clearance because

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Speaker 4: you didn't like what John Brennan was saying about him

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Speaker 4: and about his uh, you know, his involvement in January sixth.

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Speaker 4: So yes, you're you're always connected once you once you're there.

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Speaker 5: Even about the clearances, I mean the relationships, these lifelong

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Speaker 5: relationships and attacks that you can leverage even minus the

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Speaker 5: security clearances. Correct, I mean I think that stuff is

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Speaker 5: money in the bank.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's true power.

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Speaker 2: Just a real quick insert here for anybody that wants

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Speaker 2: to go deep down the rabbit hole. I'm looking at

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Speaker 2: a declassified document here that describes mister Johanned's work from

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Speaker 2: December nineteen sixty two to April nineteen sixty four, and

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Speaker 2: it describes him as the case officer for the Cuban

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Speaker 2: Exile Group Directorio Revolutionnarios. Studient Teal is known as Student.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a student directed anti Castro group.

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Speaker 3: And there's there's something else too, And I know people

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Speaker 3: are yelling at their phones right now, or however you

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Speaker 3: listen to shows the House Select Committee, you have this,

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Speaker 3: you have this terrifying observation rob in who killed JFK?

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Speaker 3: Where you say, look, these are two fundament only flawed

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Speaker 3: investigations and they reach two very different conclusions. And one thing,

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Speaker 3: one thing that I think stands out for people were

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Speaker 3: who were born after the assassination is to is to

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Speaker 3: read the conclusions of the House Select Committee and see

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Speaker 3: that they have dropped the C word. They have said

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Speaker 3: the assassination seemed to be the result of a I

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Speaker 3: believe the quote is probable conspiracy, but.

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Speaker 4: Then yes, I mean the the Warrant Commission basically said

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Speaker 4: that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman, did it

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Speaker 4: all by himself. The House Select Committee said it was

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Speaker 4: probably a conspiracy based on all the investigation they had done,

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Speaker 4: but they didn't say who was involved in the conspiracy.

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Speaker 4: They never could get that far because of this guy,

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Speaker 4: George Joanniedes. They they didn't They didn't name the mob,

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Speaker 4: they didn't name the CIA, they didn't talk about the

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Speaker 4: Cuban exilese. They just said, based on the information they had,

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Speaker 4: it was probably a conspiracy. So you have two diametrically

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Speaker 4: opposed conclusions, and that those are the two government records now.

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Speaker 2: And Warren Commission is nineteen sixty four, so very soon

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Speaker 2: after the assassination, and the House Select Committee isn't until

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six. So just imagine, like again, already we've

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Speaker 2: got decades separating, a decade separating these two things. And

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Speaker 2: you wonder why Americans in general, you're talking about drips

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Speaker 2: and drabs information coming out from the very beginning. It's

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Speaker 2: like we're getting little bits and pieces, right, and I

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Speaker 2: swear it feels like it's designed that way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't know design, but if you think

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Speaker 4: about you mentioned Dick Gregory. The House Select Committee was

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Speaker 4: born out of an investigation by Idaho Senator Frank Church.

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Speaker 4: They had a committee there set up in the Senate

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Speaker 4: and that was based on information that was coming out

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Speaker 4: that the CIA was doing all kinds of things that

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Speaker 4: they were not aware of. And it came out as

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Speaker 4: a you know, a revelation during that that they were

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Speaker 4: doing these extra judicial killings, that other things were going on.

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Speaker 4: And then Dick Gregory went on The Heraldo Show and

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Speaker 4: they showed the Zapruder film for the first time. Now,

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Speaker 4: the Zapruder film was you know, the Warrant Commission saw it.

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Speaker 4: The public had not seen it. Nobody still need photographs,

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Speaker 4: just some still photographs, but we didn't have a context

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Speaker 4: and we didn't see it. When that came out and

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Speaker 4: the Church Committee started revealing what they knew, that gave

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Speaker 4: birth to the House Select Committee. And that was, like

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Speaker 4: you say, well over ten years after the Warren Commission

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Speaker 4: came out. So now all of a sudden, you have

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Speaker 4: another flashpoint. Now when Oliver Stone made his film a

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Speaker 4: JFK in nineteen ninety two or ninety one. I believe

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Speaker 4: it was that also triggered the JFK Records Act and

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Speaker 4: the creation of the Assassination Records Review Board, which was

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Speaker 4: another investigation. So these things are separated by many, many years,

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Speaker 4: and during each of these investigations, more and more and

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Speaker 4: more information came out. So, like I say, it's very

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Speaker 4: tough to follow. And unless you're tracking all this stuff

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Speaker 4: when it comes out, you wouldn't. You wouldn't know how

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Speaker 4: to put those pieces together. That's what we try to

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Speaker 4: do in this podcast.

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Speaker 2: And you do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say accomplished so far. And folks, full

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Speaker 3: disclosure here we are in media arrests. We are listening

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Speaker 3: along with you all. We do not know how this

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Speaker 3: story concludes yet. I do want to throw one thing here.

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Speaker 3: That's an interesting note, Rob.

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Speaker 4: That I before you say that, before you put a

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Speaker 4: pin in it, I want to hear the interesting note.

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Speaker 4: But by the end of it, by the tenth episode,

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Speaker 4: you will hear what we believe happened that day, and

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Speaker 4: we will name the shooters that we believe for shooting,

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Speaker 4: and we will name the positions that we believe those

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Speaker 4: shooters were in So I'm just.

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Speaker 3: Will you come back on the show?

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Speaker 4: Sure? Sure, absolutely, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So it'll be later than this, early in the morning,

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Speaker 2: we promised you.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I agree.

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Speaker 3: So there's something interesting in speaking of contextualization. There is

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Speaker 3: a there is a deep temptation often that pulls us

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Speaker 3: away from objectivity when we start connecting dots, right, because

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Speaker 3: humans identify patterns. And I noticed that of the seven

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Speaker 3: official members of the Warren Commission, one died under it

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Speaker 3: or disappeared under extremely mysterious circumstances before the House Select Committee,

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Speaker 3: uh and the Church Committee got their crack at this,

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Speaker 3: and would be Hail Boggs right, disappeared over over the hinterlands.

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Speaker 4: Of Alaska, and there was a plane crash that you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't say for sure what happened there. We don't know,

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Speaker 4: and we're not going to, you know, be some conjecture

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Speaker 4: over this. It happened. And but there are a lot

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Speaker 4: of mysterious deaths that occurred right after the Warren Commission

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Speaker 4: came out. There was a very famous woman who was

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Speaker 4: married to a CIA agent. Her name is Mary Meyer,

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Speaker 4: and her sister was having an affair with Jack Kennedy

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Speaker 4: and she at the minute the And this is one

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Speaker 4: of the reasons I wanted Sola Dad O'Brien to to

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Speaker 4: do this with me, because she did a podcast about

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Speaker 4: this called Murder on the Towpath in which this woman

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Speaker 4: was assassinated walking in Georgetown. And day that she was killed,

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Speaker 4: James Angleton, who was the head of counterintelligence for the CIA,

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Speaker 4: along with Ben Bradley, who was editor of The Washington Post,

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Speaker 4: they arrived at Mary Meyer's art studio and confiscated a

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Speaker 4: diary that she kept. So there's that. And you know

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Speaker 4: Dorothy kill Gallan, who was killed shortly after attending the

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Speaker 4: Jack Ruby trial and was the only one to have

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Speaker 4: actual interviews with Jack Ruby. She was killed. And there

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Speaker 4: was a number of people that we did a study

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Speaker 4: and there were about I think eighteen critical key witnesses

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Speaker 4: who died of either a heart attack or suicide or

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Speaker 4: accident or jump out of a window something within two

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Speaker 4: years of the assassination. And they ran some numbers on

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Speaker 4: it and it's like seven hundred trillion, I mean, some

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Speaker 4: crazy number the odds of all of those people dying

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Speaker 4: in that way. But you know, we don't get into

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Speaker 4: any of that stuff, because we can't prove why these

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Speaker 4: people died, I mean, and so what we've tried to

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Speaker 4: do in the podcast is just stick with what we know.

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Speaker 4: These are things we know, and then you know, we

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Speaker 4: do our best guess as to put together based on

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Speaker 4: everything we know, what actually happened.

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Speaker 3: And we'll pause here for a word from our sponsor

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Speaker 3: before we return and ask Rob Ryder who killed JFK.

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Speaker 4: And we have returned.

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Speaker 5: You know, we talked a little bit off Mike before

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Speaker 5: we started rolling, just about this event being sort of

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Speaker 5: the beginning of this massive polarization of the American people,

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Speaker 5: and it being you described it as sort of an

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Speaker 5: end of innocence, and I think in Ben you wrote

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Speaker 5: in the outline here this really was a moment that

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Speaker 5: you could trace back to when distrust in our government

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Speaker 5: really kind of began as much more of a mainstream thing. Rob,

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Speaker 5: can you kind of couple all those ideas together into

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Speaker 5: sort of your thoughts on what that end of innocence means?

434
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 4: And well, I mean, we you know, after the Second

435
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 4: World War, we were the heroes, We were the good guys,

436
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: and we could do nothing wrong. I mean, we you know,

437
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 4: we had prosperity and people, you know, the gi Bill

438
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 4: and people were living in you know, the suburbs, and

439
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 4: they were, you know, things were doing, you know, better

440
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: for a lot of people, not for not for black people,

441
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 4: but for a lot of Americans. And then you have

442
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 4: this moment happened in nineteen sixty three where it's like

443
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: your father was taking I mean, you know, the leader

444
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: of the country was just killed like that. And we

445
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,239
Speaker 4: knew at the time, I mean, which came out that

446
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: Kennedy was trying to make a forge your path to peace.

447
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 4: He gave a very famous speech at American University where

448
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: he talked about we cannot go down this road of

449
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 4: nuclear holocaust. We have to find a way to forge

450
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: a path to peace. Well, in the context of that,

451
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 4: he wrote a memo which is on file that he

452
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: was going to call for the removal of a thousand

453
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 4: troops out of Vietnam that year and the removal of

454
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 4: all military out of Vietnam by the end of nineteen

455
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 4: sixty five. Now we don't know would he have done that,

456
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 4: would he not have done that. What we do know

457
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: is that he wrote the memo, and certainly the hardliners

458
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: in the CIA and the military knew that, and they

459
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: were worried that that was going to happen. So what happens.

460
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: Kennedy gets assassinated, Johnson becomes president, and the next thing

461
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 4: you know, we're stepping up the war in Vietnam. And

462
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 4: that to me was the beginning of a huge divide

463
00:29:58,640 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 4: in America.

464
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 5: Benefit though staying in Vietnam, Like I think I understand,

465
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 5: but just from your respective like the hardliners, as you mentioned,

466
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 5: like who is benefiting from US maintaining a presence in Vietnam?

467
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 5: And it was such a disastrous you know conflicts.

468
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, ideologically, the hardliners are thinking, and

469
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: that was certainly the thoughts of the day, there was

470
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: a better dead than red. They believed that there was

471
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 4: this domino theory and that if one country went fell communists,

472
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: that there would be a domino theory and the rest

473
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 4: of the world would go communists. They were actually afraid

474
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 4: that the world was going to turn into a communistic world.

475
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 4: So ideologically that's what they thought. Now on a purely

476
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: economic standpoint, you know it, you make money, you go

477
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 4: to war. And in the military industrial complex, which by

478
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: the way, Eisenhower warned us beware, in the military industrial complex.

479
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 4: They want they want to be able to do that

480
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: because it's good business. So those two things are happening there.

481
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 4: And for young people, they're being sent off to war

482
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 4: to die in a war that they don't believe is

483
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: just they don't believe is legal. And if you remember,

484
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 4: I mean people who want to study their history, there

485
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 4: was a thing called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which

486
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 4: was all about the fact that we were told that

487
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: our ship was fired on in Vietnam in this Tonkin

488
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: ship was fired on and so I mean in the

489
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 4: Gulf of Tonkin, and that was the pretext for why

490
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 4: we went to war in Vietnam. So you had a

491
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 4: lot of distrust going on and the country started to divide.

492
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 4: There were protests all over the country, and we divided

493
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: as a nation. And I believe that it was the

494
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: beginning of the divide that you see now. This country

495
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 4: couldn't be more divided than they are now. And I

496
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: would point back to what happened and going into Vietnam

497
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: that was the beginning of that divide.

498
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: Well, and there's so many things to talk about here

499
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: that branch from that. But we learn in your podcast

500
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: that JFK was maintaining maybe off the books, we would say,

501
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: contact with Soviet officials, like the highest Soviet officials and

502
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: Cuban officials, and attempting to smooth things out directly rather

503
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: than through the mechanisms that would normally you'd need to

504
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: go through.

505
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 4: To have vice conversation. Back channeling. He was back channeling

506
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 4: with Kruse Jeff. He was back channeling with Castro directly

507
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 4: with Kruse Jeff and Castro to make sure that and

508
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 4: this is on the heels of the Cuban missile crisis,

509
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 4: which happened a year after the Bay of Pigs. The

510
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 4: Cuban missile crisis, as people know, or you know, maybe

511
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: they're learning for the first time, was we were on

512
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: the brink of a nuclear war, and those of us

513
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: who were alive at the time will never ever forget it.

514
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: We found out that there were nuclear weapons in Cuba

515
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 4: that were put there by the Russians ninety miles away

516
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 4: from America, and they could reach Washington in twenty minutes.

517
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: So we were doing drills in school. Now they have

518
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 4: active shooter drills. In my time, they had a duck

519
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: and covered drill that you under the desk. You'd get

520
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 4: under a desk in case of a nuclear Now. I

521
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 4: used to make a joke about it, which is, you know,

522
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 4: it was a known fact that the material that they

523
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: made school desks out of could actually repel a nuclear bomb.

524
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 4: But it's of course it's ridiculous.

525
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 5: It's optics though, right, it's this idea.

526
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 4: No, that's with safety, you know, yeah, that we better

527
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 4: you know, keep ourselves safe. So we were all believing

528
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 4: that that's what we were a minute away from a

529
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: nuclear holocaust, and that was that was the basis fun,

530
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 4: you know, which we lived. So uh, he started to

531
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 4: back channel. He said, you know, we can't let this happen.

532
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: What can we do? They you know, he settled the

533
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 4: Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy did. He He made a deal

534
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: with kruse Chef. We had missiles in Turkey. He said

535
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: to kruse Chef, will take those missiles out of Turkey

536
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 4: if you take these missiles out of Cuba, which happened.

537
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 4: But then he said, from there on we got to

538
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 4: make sure that nothing like this happens again, because we

539
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 4: the whole world. We're going to blow up the whole

540
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 4: world if we do this. And so he started back

541
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: channeling to Castro to kruse Chef, and the CIA was

542
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: well aware of that. They became well aware of that,

543
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: and that added to their distrust of Kennedy in terms

544
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 4: of his fight against communism.

545
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: And also there seems to be this it was a

546
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 3: thing that the American public was largely unaware of, but

547
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: there was internal descent escalating into chaos at the same

548
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: time this there was this move for de escalation.

549
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 4: Yes, right during the Cuban missile crisis, the hardliners in

550
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 4: both the CIA and the military were pushing Kennedy like crazy,

551
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 4: make a strike, take them out, take those missiles out,

552
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: go after them. And they were very upset with him

553
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 4: when he chose this this other path. It was it

554
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 4: was contentious. There was a lot of screaming, yelling going

555
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 4: on in the White It's thirteen days, very famous time,

556
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 4: thirteen days where we all lived on the edge of

557
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 4: are we going to be blown up?

558
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: Do you feel rob that there was a somewhat of

559
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 3: a like lack of respect amid the unelected power structures

560
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: of US governance, because from what we've been reading, it

561
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: seems as though when Kennedy enters office, you know, the

562
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 3: the CIA still still high off the oss World War

563
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 3: two actions. They're kind of coming in with this attitude that, yes,

564
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: you will be a figurehead and you will do what

565
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: we the adults say is.

566
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 4: Well, not only that, yeah, not only that. But Kennedy

567
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 4: campaigned in nineteen sixty as a anti communist, you know,

568
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 4: strong against communism. There was a big debate, you know,

569
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 4: with with Nixon. It was on television. I think it

570
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 4: was one of the first televised debates, and he had

571
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 4: to show that he had real bona fides in fighting communism.

572
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: He ran as a anti communist, strong willed, a guy

573
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 4: who would stand you know, in his inaugural desk, We'll

574
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 4: stand up to any foe. We'll fight anybody to do this.

575
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: And he knew in order to win he had to

576
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: show his strength against communism. But as the realities presented himself,

577
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,959
Speaker 4: he realizes that that strength that he showed could lead

578
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 4: to world hundreds and hundreds of millions of people being killed.

579
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: And so the reality set in and he said, no,

580
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 4: I got to go a different, a different direction here.

581
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: And they were mad. They were angry at him because

582
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: they assumed that he was going to be a you know,

583
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 4: a real, real, you know as an extension of the

584
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 4: McCarthy days, where go after the comedy, get him out

585
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 4: of government, get you know, anybody could be a comedy.

586
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 4: They're lurking, you know, get get rid of them. Uh,

587
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 4: they thought he was going to be one of those guys.

588
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 5: That's a proper witch hunt, though not the way it's

589
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 5: kind of been dog whistleified by the Trump administration. You know,

590
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 5: that was people actually being persecuted who did not have

591
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 5: any affiliation.

592
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, a lot of them were.

593
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it makes me wonder about the just

594
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: real quick, the concept of greater good, which seems to

595
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 3: be you know, both an ideological motivating force for a

596
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: lot of the more hawkish factors here. And I have

597
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 3: to say it, one of the things that I went

598
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: back and rewatched after listening to the first several episodes

599
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: of Who Killed JFK? Was a few good men and

600
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: there's you know, there's there's something there that reminds me

601
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 3: and probably a lot of our listeners too, reminds me

602
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: so viscerally of that rationalization where where we have characters

603
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: who are saying, look, did I do something quote unquote wrong? Maybe,

604
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: but I did it for the right reasons. Do you feel.

605
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: Do you feel that that was sort of a common

606
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: mentality in the operations.

607
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 4: I mean that is, you know, the military is there

608
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 4: to protect us, and that's good, we want that. But

609
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 4: the question is how far do you go to protect us?

610
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 4: Are you willing to commit war crimes? In the case

611
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: of Nazi Germany? Are you willing to do anything? And

612
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 4: that's what the character that Jack Nicholson plays in Few

613
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 4: Good Men. He says, you want me on that wall,

614
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 4: you need me on that wall. I'm doing what you

615
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 4: can't do. And so the question always is how far

616
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 4: are you willing to go in order to protect people?

617
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,959
Speaker 4: Are you willing to blow up the world? I mean,

618
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: who wins? Nobody wins in that situation. You're not protecting anybody.

619
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 5: And unfortunately, as just mere mortal voters, we don't get

620
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 5: to decide how far that line is.

621
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: No, we don't, no, no. But what we're hoping is

622
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 4: that we, as normal voters, are electing people who have

623
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 4: the good sense to know where that line is, and

624
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 4: that that's where we are now. I mean, we're we

625
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 4: couldn't be more divided. You've got one guy who's willing

626
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 4: to do anything, you know, Donald Trump is willing to

627
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 4: do anything to keep power. And that means he even

628
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 4: said it. I'm not making it it up. He said it.

629
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 4: We'll put the vermin you know, we'll take and we'll

630
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 4: put them in in in camps, and we'll make sure

631
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 4: we're familiar with We'll get the blood, you know, the disgusting,

632
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 4: the thing that's poisoning the American bloodstream, will put him

633
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 4: in camps. That's he said that.

634
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: But he's also plagiarizing Adolf Hitler too.

635
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, because he can't make that stuff up. He's

636
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: not smart enough. But I mean, and I always heard

637
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 4: that he had mine kamf on his ben stand. Well,

638
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 4: he probably had it on his best name. He didn't

639
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 4: read it. I mean, I don't know how much of

640
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 4: you bred who knows. I don't know what he does

641
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 4: with reading.

642
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 5: Mine from the Bible, and he didn't read either of them.

643
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, he probably held mine comp He held my

644
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: comp up the wrong way too. But guys, but we're

645
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 4: getting too far a field here. But the truth is,

646
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: we want to elect people who know where that line

647
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: is and not to cross it, because when you cross it,

648
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 4: you're not protecting people.

649
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: You're also not electing a lot of the decision makers

650
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: to your point, directly and representative democracy. There's no one,

651
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: No average voter votes for a Supreme Court nominee, No

652
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 3: average voter votes for the people in charge of the

653
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: NSA or the CIA.

654
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: No. But what you are voting for is you're voting

655
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 4: for a president who nominates Supreme Court justices, who nominates

656
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 4: a secretary of Defense, you know, any of the positions.

657
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 4: You're nominating somebody, or you're voting for somebody who has

658
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 4: the power to nominate people who are sensible, who know

659
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 4: where the line is. That's representative government, and that's what

660
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 4: you want. You want somebody who's reasoned, who's intelligent, and

661
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 4: who can make the right decisions.

662
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 5: Hey, let's take a quick pause here for a word

663
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 5: from our sponsor, and then we'll return with more from

664
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 5: Rob Ryner.

665
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 4: And we're back.

666
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 5: Let's jump right into our conversation with Rob Reiner already

667
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 5: in progress.

668
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: Let's take it back to nineteen seventy five, to the

669
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: Church Committee again, because it's directly related to this. That's

670
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: when the American public learned about a couple things that

671
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: you might be familiar with if you're listening to this show.

672
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: Mk Ultra and Cointelpro specifically when it comes to assassinations.

673
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about Cointelpro. If you jump five years after

674
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: JFK's assassination and you look at Martin Luther King Junior,

675
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: you look at JFK's brother RFK, So it's like, again

676
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: not directly perhaps related to Cointelpro, but it is a

677
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 2: secret it is a secret thing that we didn't know about,

678
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 2: that the FBI was doing to investigate people that they

679
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: thought would be counter to the vision of the world

680
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: that they had, Right.

681
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. And you mentioned it's counterintelligence program.

682
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 4: I mean, that's what they're doing. They're trying to root

683
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 4: out anybody that goes against their ideaology. You mentioned kut

684
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: mk Ultra was a program that was designed at the CIA,

685
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 4: and this was during the Cold War where there was

686
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 4: a lot of concern about moles infiltrating our intelligence community

687
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 4: and getting information, and we wanted to try to see

688
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 4: if we could get our people inside the you know,

689
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 4: the Soviet Union, inside the KGB. There was this big

690
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: cat and mouse game going on, headed up by this

691
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 4: head of counter intelligence, James Jesus Angleton, who was a

692
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 4: brilliant guy. Genius but also paranoid beyond belief that he

693
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: thought there was, you know, a mole everywhere you look.

694
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: So this mk Ultra program was designed to try to

695
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 4: create spies, people who would look like, you know, dissidents

696
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 4: or whatever. And there was a program set up at

697
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: a place called Nag's Head, and we'll get you'll get

698
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 4: into this. You'll hear this in the other episodes. It

699
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 4: was in North Carolina where they took disaffected youths, Oswald

700
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 4: being one of them. He was part of that program.

701
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 4: And we have somebody on the podcast who knew Oswald

702
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 4: in that program, who was there at Nagshead. And what

703
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: they did was they used LSD. They used all kinds

704
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 4: of uh techniques of torture and things to try to uh,

705
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 4: you know, get inside somebody's mind. This was like in

706
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: the days of the Manchurian candidate, that you could create

707
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: this elusive illusion of somebody who was not who they

708
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 4: appeared to be. Now, it didn't really work, they didn't

709
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: really were able to be successful. But the fact is

710
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 4: they were uh uh training people to be assets, assets

711
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: for them that somewhere down the line they could could use.

712
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 4: And Oswald was part of that Oswald was part of that.

713
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 4: He also went and learned Russian. He learned Russian, and

714
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 4: he was sent to the Soviet unions as part of

715
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 4: an operation to see if they could infiltrate somebody into

716
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 4: the you know, to the Soviet Union. It was a failure.

717
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 4: He didn't get anything. But we know that that happened

718
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 4: because he was stationed in Japan during you know, when

719
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 4: he was a marine. He was you know, a radar

720
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 4: operator for the U two spy plane. And there was

721
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 4: a guy who was also in military intelligence that was

722
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 4: teamed up with Oswald on an operation to try to

723
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 4: flip a Soviet colonel to come into the CIA. So

724
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 4: Oswald was part of an intelligence community. We knew that

725
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 4: that and once he went to Russia in nineteen fifty

726
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 4: nine sixty, around sixty to fifty on sixty they opened

727
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 4: a file on Oswald, but they call it two h

728
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 4: one file, And for four years they had reams and

729
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 4: realm of documents connecting the CIA with Oswald, and none

730
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 4: of that came out in the Warrant Commission report that

731
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 4: Warren said, there's no there's no connection. We don't know

732
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: anything about Oswald. And there were thousands of documents that

733
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 4: showed that they did.

734
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 5: That's what I was going to ask, because there's no

735
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 5: acknowledgement that he was an asset or a reference to

736
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 5: who his handlers might have been, or he was just

737
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 5: a lone wolf. He was treated like a civilian who

738
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 5: just went nuts and did this thing of his own volition.

739
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting, you know you said he said I

740
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 4: was just a patsy. I was a patsy. Now, you know,

741
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: if you're accused of murder, the first thing you're saying

742
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 4: is I didn't do it. I don't know, I didn't

743
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: do it. You're not saying I'm a patsy. A patsy

744
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 4: is a guy who knows that something else is going on,

745
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 4: that he's being set up for. And then when you

746
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 4: had people ask well, well didn't he want to you know,

747
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 4: he was a lone wolf and didn't he want to

748
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 4: make a name for himself. Well, if you want to

749
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 4: make a name for yourself, you say what you did.

750
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 4: You don't say I'm a patsy. You say I did

751
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 4: it because I believe America. You know you do, you

752
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 4: know you do that. It's the exact opposite.

753
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I've read some things and I've heard some things

754
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: that Oswald was potentially meeting with a group of Cuban

755
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: exiles in Dallas right before the assassination. Did you find

756
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: anything that may corroborate that.

757
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 4: No, we didn't find that he was meeting with a

758
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 4: group of Cuban exiles. What we did find was that

759
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: it's known, this is on record that he went to

760
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 4: New Orleans a few months in April May. He went

761
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 4: to New Orleans and he joined what they call the

762
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 4: fair Play for Cuba Committee. Now that was a legitimate organization.

763
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 4: They had chapters around the country, but when he went

764
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 4: to New Orleans, he started his own chapter. And he

765
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: was the only member of the fair Play for Cuba Committee.

766
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 4: There was no other members. He was the only one,

767
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 4: and he handed out leaflets. And if this is something

768
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 4: we know because we we have photographs. In one of

769
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 4: the pictures he's handing out leafless and there's a CIA

770
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 4: operative in the background of one of those photographs. Now,

771
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 4: the other thing is when he handed out these photographs,

772
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 4: it was done at a place where there were uh

773
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 4: anti Castro people. He was supposed to be procaster a

774
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 4: lot of anti Castro and there was a big fight.

775
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 4: They took his leafless, they threw up in the air.

776
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 4: There was a scuffle, there was a melee, and was

777
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 4: all caught on film. I mean they they they and

778
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 4: it went on the news. So who's you know, who's

779
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 4: filming this, who's doing this? I mean, you have to

780
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 4: make it so that you're you know, setting up this

781
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: guy that he's a pro castro guy and uh, you know,

782
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 4: otherwise he's just a lone guy sitting on the corner

783
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 4: handing out leafless. You know who go who films the

784
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 4: guy handing out leafless at any corner anywhere?

785
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 2: No narrative, somebody making a movie.

786
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a bit of a there's there's this emphasis

787
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: kind of on narrative. And even in the even in

788
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 3: the internal conversations which are now public knowledge regarding the

789
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: Warren Commission, we see that there is this strong drive

790
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: from people who are kind of driving the commission, even

791
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 3: though they're not official members. I believe it was jagg

792
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: Or Hoover, famous dude who said, look, we're going to

793
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: make this look like this story.

794
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 6: Uh and yeah, you had not only Jay go Hoover,

795
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 6: but you know, we have audio tapes of Hoover talking

796
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 6: to to Johnson saying, we can't let this thing get

797
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 6: out of hand.

798
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 4: The House wants to investigated, the Senate wants to investigated,

799
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 4: but we got to keep a lid on this thing

800
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 4: because it's it's going to go crazy, so we have

801
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 4: to control it. And then there's a very famous memo

802
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 4: by a Nicholaszenbach. He was the deputy Attorney General under

803
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 4: Robert Kennedy, and he released a memo saying, we have

804
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 4: to convince the public that Lee Harvey Oswell was the

805
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 4: lone assassin. Now this came out three days or a

806
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 4: few days right after the assassination, and they were already

807
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 4: saying this is Oswal and we got to make the

808
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 4: public believe this. So everything was designed to create that narrative,

809
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 4: like you said, and we get into it in the

810
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 4: third episode when we get into the forensics of how

811
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: the narrative really starts to fall apart. It really falls

812
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 4: apart because we get into the famous single bullet theory

813
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 4: and they had a big problem. I mean, people who

814
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 4: study this stuff, no, it's impossible to do what this

815
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 4: one bullet was supposed to have done. And you know,

816
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 4: for your you know, listeners who don't know about it,

817
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 4: the Warrant Commission said that three three shots were fired

818
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 4: from the sixth floor of the Texas school Book Depository building,

819
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 4: which overlooked the Presidential Modecade on Elm Street. Three shots.

820
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 4: Initially they said the first shot hit Kennedy and in

821
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,479
Speaker 4: the back the second shot. They had a problem because

822
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 4: they said all three shots hit. The problem they had

823
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 4: was the first shot missed. And they found out that

824
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 4: the first shot missed because it hit a curb and

825
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 4: a piece of concrete flicked into a bystander's cheek and

826
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 4: he started to bleed. So now they were left with

827
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 4: two shots, and that two shots had to do all

828
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 4: the damage. One of the shots we know was a

829
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 4: shot to his head. That was the fatal head wound,

830
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 4: the shot that killed Kennedy. Then they have one bullet

831
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: left to say that a bullet went into from the

832
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 4: sixth floor. From the sixth floor, the bullet went into

833
00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 4: the Kennedy's back right six to eight inches blow's neck,

834
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 4: then traveled up and came out his neck. Then made

835
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 4: a turn to the Magic Connolly. Hit Connolly in the

836
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 4: in the ribs, breaks some ribs, then makes another turn,

837
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 4: hits them in the wrists, breaks the wrist bones, then

838
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 4: makes another turn and and it winds up in his thigh.

839
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 4: That's what they had to make you believe. And the

840
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 4: guy who came up with that was a fellow named

841
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 4: Marlin Spector who became a senator at the time, he

842
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 4: was just a lawyer who was, you know, representing the committee,

843
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 4: and he came up with this single bullet theory, this

844
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 4: magic bullet that did all that damage. And they said, well,

845
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 4: that's what. And by the way, you can see that bullet.

846
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 4: It's on file in the in the archives and in

847
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 4: the Warrant Commission, and it's limited as evidence number three

848
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 4: ninety nine, and it's pristine. It didn't just looks like

849
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 4: it didn't hit anything.

850
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 5: You know, rub should should we maybe take this as

851
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 5: an opportunity to address the elephant in the room That

852
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 5: seems to me it should be a larger elephant. But

853
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 5: it's seems to have also been glossed over by the

854
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 5: media a bit. Paul Landis, Oh yeah, wells, yeah.

855
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 4: See that's interesting you bring up Paul Landis, because again

856
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 4: it goes back to drips and drabs things coming out

857
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 4: over a time. If people Paul Landers came out with

858
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 4: a report about I don't know, a couple of months

859
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 4: ago whatever, and we interviewed him for the for the

860
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 4: podcast Oh cool, Yeah, he's on there. And and this

861
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 4: guy was on the trail car. He was a secret

862
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 4: service aation who was in the trail car. He's riding

863
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 4: on the running board behind Kennedy when the head shot came.

864
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 4: He talks about how brain matter and the skull matter

865
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 4: flew in his direction and he had a duck to

866
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 4: get out of the way of getting hit by brain matter.

867
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 4: And he talked about how when they got to Parkland Hospital,

868
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 4: which is where they're going to take care of Kennedy,

869
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 4: that when he helped Jackie Kennedy up out of the seat,

870
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 4: it was a blood pool of blood on the seat

871
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: where they were sitting, and he looked in the back

872
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 4: on the top of the seat resting there was a

873
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 4: bullet and it was this bullet and he didn't know

874
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 4: what to do because he thought, oh, this is a

875
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 4: piece of evidence. And he knew the bullet had been

876
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 4: fired because it had striation marks on it, but it

877
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 4: was essentially pristeine. There was no other damage to it.

878
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 4: And he picked it up because he thought, you know,

879
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 4: it's a piece of evidence. What if somebody takes it

880
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 4: and you know, and then he went into the hospital

881
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 4: and didn't know what to do, and he put it

882
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 4: on the Kennedy's by Kennedy's leg when he was being

883
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 4: worked on. And so when you hear this and you

884
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 4: take it not in context, you go, well, so what

885
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 4: there was another bullet there? But what you have to

886
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 4: know is that this is the bullet that Arl Inspector

887
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 4: claimed to have gone through two people. Now, if that happened,

888
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 4: then how out of the bullet wind up in the

889
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 4: back but it bounce back after it wounded, you know

890
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 4: what I mean? Of course, is so crazy that unless

891
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 4: you can put all these pieces together, you go, well,

892
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 4: so the guy found a bullet, big deal.

893
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 3: And what would the American public have done? There's another

894
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: question we can't answer. What would the American public have

895
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: done in the sixties had they known these and other discrepancies?

896
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 3: You know, Rob entering into this, we knew there was

897
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that we wouldn't get to in

898
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 3: our conversation, like the autopsy reports, Uh, the one that

899
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 3: got birds. Yeah, the fact that Texas Governor Condoley also said,

900
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 3: I don't think that was the same bullet.

901
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 4: No, he said that he died. He said the bullet

902
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 4: that Kennedy did not hit me. What would the public

903
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 4: have done. I think they were worried what the public

904
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 4: would have done, because it would have put I mean,

905
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 4: as it is, we have distrust in government now. They

906
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 4: the trust level and government is so low now that

907
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 4: I think that at that time, it would have, you know,

908
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 4: just blown the lid off of any trust of the

909
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 4: Justice Department, the intelligence community, the military. You know, they

910
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 4: were trying to keep a lid on that so that

911
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 4: they you know, that trust remained in government. But my

912
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 4: contention is you trust when you know, and if you

913
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 4: know the truth and you're open and telling the truth,

914
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 4: you can say, hey, we made a mistake, we did

915
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 4: something wrong, we should not have done that. And if

916
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 4: you do that, you gain trust, you don't lose trust.

917
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 4: And then that's what we need the basis of all democracy.

918
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 4: And that's why I've stuck with this for so long.

919
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 4: I believe that the that the foundation of a strong

920
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 4: democracy is that the American people trust in the institutions

921
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 4: of government. We have to trust and by the way,

922
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 4: people desputs know the best way to gain power is

923
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 4: to fomote foment distrust, and that's what trusts. I've been

924
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 4: doing it. It's right out of the authoritarian playbook. You

925
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 4: just make people distrust things and then you say I

926
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 4: can fix it. I'm the only one that can fix it.

927
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 3: This goes to one of the I think the big questions.

928
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: And I can't speak for everyone, but this is after

929
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: after listening to the show and just the caliber the

930
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 3: level of research and investigation that you have done here.

931
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 3: One of my one of my big questions is why now,

932
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 3: like why this moment in time do we get the

933
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: answer for who killed JFK.

934
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 4: Well, I think again, it goes back to right now

935
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 4: we're seeing the potential end of American democracy and if

936
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 4: people don't think that that could happen, we're seeing it

937
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 4: right now and fold in front of our very eyes.

938
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 4: And what we need to do is be honest and

939
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 4: truthful with the American public. We have a lot of

940
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 4: things that we've done wrong in this country, you know,

941
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 4: starting with what we did to Native Americans, then what

942
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 4: we did to black people who were slaves for so

943
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 4: many hundreds of years, and we have to come to

944
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 4: grips with all this stuff in order to make a

945
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 4: more perfect union. The people who started this country there

946
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 4: weren't you know, they didn't know everything. They you know,

947
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 4: Jefferson had slave, they had slaves, but they did provide

948
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 4: us with a working document that could make us better,

949
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 4: that we could keep doing what we need to do

950
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 4: to make us better to form a more perfect union.

951
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,479
Speaker 4: So we have this opportunity, and the only way we're

952
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 4: going to forge a more perfect union is to level

953
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: with people to say this is the truth, this is true,

954
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 4: and this is not true. And we're living at a

955
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 4: time where it's very, very hard to get the truth

956
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 4: out because we're loaded with the information. You know, you

957
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 4: see on TikTok they come out with all of a sudden.

958
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 4: Ben Laden is saying something and it's amplified on TikTok,

959
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 4: and then everybody jumps on that, and you go, no,

960
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 4: that's not right. You don't kill people because you don't

961
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 4: believe in their ideology, or you don't like Jews, or

962
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 4: you don't like Muslims, or you don't like black people whatever.

963
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 4: That's not making it a more perfect union. So that's

964
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 4: why we want to do this. We we want to

965
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 4: put try to keep putting us back on the right track.

966
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny Rob that, like, my kid is

967
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 5: fifteen and just an absolute product of the Internet, much

968
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 5: more than any other generation, where it was a fully

969
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 5: formed thing by the time they, you know, were of

970
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 5: age and just using it from as early as they

971
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 5: can remember. But my kid very much understands the idea

972
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 5: of vetting information that they're presented with, you know, the

973
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 5: idea of being the arbiter of good information well time people.

974
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: True, hats off to your kid, man, because most kids,

975
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 4: from what I understand, and I just was at the

976
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 4: symposium where they talked about the dangers of AI and

977
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 4: and and the genius or are working on AI, they

978
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 4: don't know how to control it. They don't have the

979
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 4: single foggiest idea of how to regulate it. And what

980
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 4: they say is a lot of young people will look

981
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 4: at something informationally on on social media. They'll read the

982
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 4: headline and then they'll go to the comments.

983
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 5: I was hoping of the generation. Yeah, maybe it's maybe

984
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 5: it's not. Maybe my kid is no similar their peers,

985
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 5: but well, I.

986
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 4: Mean thinking, you know, like I say, hats off to

987
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 4: your kid, because I mean, if he's really you know,

988
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 4: studying this and figuring in trying to figure out what's

989
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 4: true and what's not true. Then hats off to them.

990
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 5: I was just hoping that it was maybe indicative of

991
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 5: the generation, but your research seems to say otherwise. But

992
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 5: who knows, you know, every individual is different, So yeah, yeah.

993
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: Hey guys, I just want to articulate to everybody listening

994
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: into you, Rob, why I am so excited that you

995
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: are one of the minds behind this project. And it

996
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 2: has to do with how your brain functions because of

997
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: what because of the way it's functioned in the past,

998
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 2: simultaneously focused on the macro and the micro. Just see

999
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 2: if I can get this out so I can ask

1000
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 2: you the question. So, if you go back to the

1001
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: fall of nineteen ninety one and you put yourself on

1002
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: that bridge when you began filming a few good men.

1003
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: If you're you are overseeing the creative vision of this project,

1004
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 2: so that means like having that overview feel right while

1005
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 2: micro not micromanaging, but keeping yourself focused on the micro

1006
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 2: thousands of decisions that go into getting one shot right.

1007
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 2: But you're also a producer on that project, which means

1008
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 2: you are getting to see kind of the stuff that

1009
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 2: happens behind the scenes that allows the filming to begin.

1010
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: Even how do you think those experiences over all of

1011
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 2: these years shape the way that you've looked at this

1012
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: assassination as some kind of set of machinations potentially, You.

1013
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 4: Know, that's a perfect summation of how I approach things.

1014
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 4: It's exactly how I do it. You know, as a director,

1015
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 4: I do have to see the overall big picture. I

1016
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 4: have to see what that looks like. And at the

1017
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 4: same time, I know that these little specific details are

1018
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 4: what make up that big picture. So you look at

1019
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 4: it and you say, does that make sense? Does that

1020
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 4: not make sense? I'm somebody who I love puzzles. I

1021
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 4: like to do puzzles. I like to figure out how

1022
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 4: does something work, how do those pieces fit together. I'm

1023
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 4: not just jigsaw puzzles with crosswords and Sudoku and all

1024
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 4: of those kinds of things. So I do look at

1025
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 4: things in a macro way, but then I also look

1026
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 4: to individual little fine points and does that make sense?

1027
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 4: Does that fit? Does that piece fit into that puzzle?

1028
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 4: Or is that and maybe it does and maybe the

1029
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 4: puzzle goes in a different direction. A lot of times

1030
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 4: you look at something and you have a certain predisposed

1031
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 4: idea as to what something will be. But then all

1032
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 4: of a sudden, the thing will tell you that it isn't,

1033
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 4: that it's something else. And then you have to be

1034
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 4: open minded enough to go down the road of where

1035
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 4: that's leading you. And so you go down all these

1036
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 4: rabbit trails to find out what and then eventually the

1037
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 4: puzzle comes into shape and you see what it really is.

1038
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 4: And I've been at this particular puzzle for sixty years,

1039
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 4: and it wasn't until I met a number of different

1040
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 4: people who started filling in pieces and certain things that

1041
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 4: I thought, hmmm, that's not maybe true. But then when

1042
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 4: I started putting it all together with all the information

1043
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 4: that I had, I went, Okay, I get this now

1044
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 4: when we lay it out at the end of this podcast,

1045
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 4: I can't tell you one hundred percent for sure that

1046
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 4: these were the four shooters and that these were the

1047
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 4: four positions we're in. I just gave something away spoil

1048
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 4: or alert. But I can tell you the best educated guests,

1049
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 4: based on all the information that's been provided, the one

1050
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: thing I know one hundred percent for sure it was

1051
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 4: a conspiracy. There's no question about that. There is no

1052
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,439
Speaker 4: question about that. This man Learvy Oswell did not do

1053
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 4: what they said he did. Did not happen that I

1054
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 4: know for a fact. Other than that exactly how it

1055
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 4: was put together. I can offer you what I think happened,

1056
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 4: and then you know, we hopefully it'll spawn more discussion.

1057
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 3: And that I think is our button, that is that

1058
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 3: is leading us to the rest of the story of rob.

1059
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time. We're not blowing

1060
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 3: smoke when we say that this truly is, at least

1061
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 3: in my opinion, a top notch, top caliber investigation, connecting

1062
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 3: things in a way that they have not been connected before,

1063
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: to the point about puzzles. And you're taking on this

1064
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 3: herculean task right of unraveling an official narrative that was

1065
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 3: forced upon the American and global public for more than

1066
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 3: half a century, interrogating claims that have for so often

1067
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 3: and for so long not been given the scrutiny that

1068
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:37,479
Speaker 3: they deserve. We are, as we said earlier, right there

1069
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 3: with everybody listening. We're tuning in as you answer the

1070
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: question who killed JFK. And you know, usually at the

1071
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 3: end of these conversations we ask a question that feels

1072
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 3: kind of odd to ask a creator of your stature,

1073
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 3: but where.

1074
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 4: What's your favorite color? What's your favorite color? What are

1075
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 4: I is there?

1076
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: I guess the way to to make this a little

1077
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 3: more bespoke is, sir, is there a way for people

1078
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: to reach out to you and your team if they,

1079
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 3: like Paul Landis, have additional information that might help us out.

1080
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 4: I mean we you know, it came out through it's

1081
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 4: being released through iHeartRadio, and there's a team there that

1082
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 4: can field information. Listen. By the way, I'm seventy six

1083
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 4: years old, and you know, I'm the last, maybe the

1084
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 4: last generation alive that will present this, and I'm sure

1085
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 4: that there's going to be a lot more information down

1086
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 4: the road that's going to come out. Like I say,

1087
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 4: almost five thousand documents are still being witheld, so we

1088
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 4: I'm hoping that we can keep this alive long enough

1089
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 4: for all of us to find out the exact truth.

1090
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 5: I gotta add really quickly, it looks like you're the

1091
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 5: exact same age as Stephen King. This obviously loomed very

1092
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 5: large for him as well. Yeah, eleven twenty two sixty three.

1093
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 5: You know, we talked about comedians and satirists and science

1094
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 5: fiction and stuff. So many amazing ways that folks like

1095
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 5: that who maybe you wouldn't immediately think can really shed

1096
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 5: light on this stuff. I learned a lot of this

1097
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 5: stuff from that book, and a lot of it is

1098
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 5: historically accurate. Of course it's a work of fiction, but

1099
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 5: you know the yeah, same exact date, So no wonder

1100
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 5: this is something that has been on his mind in

1101
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 5: the same way.

1102
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe you're ourginary if you were eleven, but you

1103
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 4: never ever, ever will forget that where you that moment

1104
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 4: and how it affected you. It won't.

1105
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 5: It doesn't stand by me too, didn't you didn't direct

1106
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 5: stand by me?

1107
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 4: Well? I did direct stand by me. I also directed misery,

1108
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 4: which was a standard, and you're so buried in your output.

1109
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 5: I got heet sometimes your castle Rock.

1110
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 4: We did seven Stephen King books. Yep.

1111
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: If we didn't even talk about LBJ from twenty sixteen

1112
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 2: and incredible.

1113
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we also talk about oh, so many things, the

1114
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 3: conversations LBJ had in the wake of things Hoover. The

1115
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 3: list goes on and on, and we're telling you, folks,

1116
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 3: the best way to get these answers. Anytime you are

1117
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 3: hearing this conversation and you think, oh, Robin, the guys

1118
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 3: didn't get to this point. We promise you tune in

1119
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: to Who Killed JFK? And let's keep to your point,

1120
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 3: mister Reiner. Let's keep the story alive every Wednesday. You

1121
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:27,879
Speaker 3: know what a time, folks. We are super excited about

1122
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 3: Who Killed JFK. It really is as I said earlier,

1123
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,679
Speaker 3: it really is a top notch investigation. And my only

1124
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 3: regret is that we didn't get to everything. But I

1125
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 3: am pretty confident that Robin Solidad are going to get

1126
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 3: to most things in this one.

1127
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the level of detail in that show is astounding.

1128
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's a weird line. Sometimes when we do

1129
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,639
Speaker 2: an episode like this, we're promoted, like in a way

1130
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 2: promoting a show, right, but we're just having a conversation

1131
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 2: with someone talking about these topics. But just this show man,

1132
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 2: it's intense.

1133
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 5: And also just to have someone who's as much of

1134
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 5: a legend as Rob is, and I think we're all

1135
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 5: fans of various facets of his work, and you know,

1136
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 5: it's one person who can truly say is a gentleman

1137
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 5: and a scholar and a legendary director and humanitarian and just.

1138
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 4: An overall good guy.

1139
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 5: I think we were all blown away by his candor

1140
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 5: and generosity and just Wow, I'm still kind of reeling

1141
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 5: from that.

1142
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 3: And as Rob would say, the puzzle continues, the mystery unfolds.

1143
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 3: He gave us some light spoilers. We would like to

1144
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: hear your thoughts, folks on what they rightly call the

1145
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 3: greatest murder mystery in the history of the United States.

1146
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 3: Let us know. We try to be easy to find online.

1147
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 4: It's right.

1148
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 5: You can find this at the handle conspiracy Stuff on

1149
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 5: x FKA, Twitter, YouTube, and also on Facebook where we

1150
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 5: have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy on

1151
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 5: the conversation there. If you wish, on TikTok and Instagram,

1152
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 5: you can find us at the handle conspiracy Stuff Show.

1153
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 5: But wait, there's more.

1154
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 2: Oh, there's more. Hey on the YouTube front. If you

1155
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 2: maybe subscribe to us a long time ago, make sure

1156
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 2: you head over there again and you put alerts on

1157
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 2: basically because there's going to be a ton of stuff

1158
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: coming there in the near future, so just keep a lookout.

1159
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 2: If you want to call us, we also have a

1160
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: phone number. It's one eight three three std WYTK and

1161
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: when you call in you leave a voicemail. You get

1162
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 2: three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and say whatever

1163
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 2: you'd like just please let us know if we can

1164
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 2: use your name and voice on one of our listener

1165
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 2: mail episodes. And hey, if you want to send us

1166
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 2: other things, links, all kinds of good stuff, you can

1167
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 2: also send us an email.

1168
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 3: We read every single email we get. Where we are

1169
01:10:49,880 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 3: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1170
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1171
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1172
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.