Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and today on the show Dogs Dogs Are Good from
Speaker 1: rare dog hybrids to dogs saving the world. Discover this
Speaker 1: more as we answer the age old question, wo Yo
Speaker 1: go radio active boy?
Speaker 2: Who Yo go?
Speaker 1: Radio active Boy? Joining me today is friend of the show,
Speaker 1: dog appreciator and host of the podcast, Joses Racist Andrew T. Welcome.
Speaker 2: Hello, How's it going pretty good? Who Let the Dogs Out?
Speaker 2: It was me?
Speaker 3: I just we just walked. Wow, I took my dog
Speaker 3: out and now she's back.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I remember that song that was such a
Speaker 1: that was such a song.
Speaker 2: Such as the perfect song.
Speaker 1: It was the perfect song we hit. We reached peak
Speaker 1: musicality with that song, and we've never flown so close
Speaker 1: to the sun before or since.
Speaker 3: I found out recently that the band behind Who Let
Speaker 3: the Dogs Out? Let's see, that song came out in
Speaker 3: two thousand. They had been a band for like over
Speaker 3: a decade, I believe before that song came out.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know, sometimes it takes takes a while. Give up,
Speaker 1: Never give up.
Speaker 2: God, twenty years they've been a band for over twenty years.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes twenty years to get reached that perfect
Speaker 1: peak song about letting dogs out? Never forget and asking
Speaker 1: why did we ever find out? Who did it?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: Because like, uh, that was the main question and I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's ever been answered. Did they do
Speaker 1: a follow up song of Well, turns out it was Steve.
Speaker 3: Me see, I'm gonna guess who let the dog? They
Speaker 3: had to have, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, they never answered the question.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, at least the albums are not dog like.
Speaker 3: Subsequent to Who Let the Dogs Out, The rest of
Speaker 3: the albums and song titles do not appear to be
Speaker 3: more dog stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just they just which is.
Speaker 2: Which makes sense because they're they're artists.
Speaker 3: This is just one in one in Who Let the
Speaker 3: Dogs Out was their Bahaman Brother one, two, three, four, five, six,
Speaker 3: seven eighth album.
Speaker 1: It's dog Lightning in a Bottle.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, fucking just just keep at it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you don't don't succeed, just try seven more albums.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, Well.
Speaker 2: Then you will succeed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's a promise. You can sue Andrew if
Speaker 1: you don't succeed after that amount of time. So speaking
Speaker 1: of lightning in a bottle, we are talking about something
Speaker 1: that is a very rare event and it is super weird.
Speaker 1: It is the first ever fox dog hybrid, which seems
Speaker 1: to have been discovered in Brazil. So they are calling
Speaker 1: her dog sim I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly. She's
Speaker 1: apparently a cross breed of domesticated dog and wild Pampis fox.
Speaker 1: Called again, I apologize. I'm gonna say this bad and
Speaker 1: wrong grass same do campo in Portuguese.
Speaker 3: So uh.
Speaker 1: She was found in Vicaria in Rio Grande do sulstat
Speaker 1: after being hit by a car.
Speaker 2: She was alive.
Speaker 1: She was taken to the vet where they thought, okay,
Speaker 1: she looks kind of weird for a dog, and she's
Speaker 1: definitely not a fox, but she's not acting like a
Speaker 1: dog in terms of her behavior. She doesn't looked like
Speaker 1: a dog. So researchers from the Federal University of Politus
Speaker 1: and the Federal University of Rio Grande do Sul conducted
Speaker 1: genetic tests and they found this link to the Pampas fox,
Speaker 1: which is nuts.
Speaker 2: That's so wild, is it? Okay?
Speaker 3: Is this a thing where it's like definitely clear that
Speaker 3: this is a hybrid or is it that sort of
Speaker 3: thing where like because I have you know, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure these companies make all kinds of ludicrous claims, but
Speaker 3: like you know people that get twenty three in me
Speaker 3: and they're like, well you have this much Neanderthal DNA
Speaker 3: or whatever, like you know, like that sort.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, like that like far back of yeah. No, no,
Speaker 1: So I mean, first of all, the Pampas fox would
Speaker 1: not at all be like a dog ancestor or vice versa,
Speaker 1: which is why this is so strange. But yeah, in
Speaker 1: terms of it being a hybrid, the investigation into its
Speaker 1: DNA does seem to indicate that it's a recent hybrid.
Speaker 1: So this dog sim, which is I guess they just
Speaker 1: named this gal dog sim. She has seventy six chromosomes
Speaker 1: instead of seventy eight like typical dogs, and her mitochondrial
Speaker 1: DNA seems to be Pampis fox, which would mean her
Speaker 1: mother was a Pampis fox and found in her. They
Speaker 1: found in her nuclear DNA a mixture of dog and
Speaker 1: Pampas fox genes, which means that her father was likely
Speaker 1: a domesticated dog. So you know, she was treated for
Speaker 1: her wounds. They did these blood tests on her, and
Speaker 1: she was taken to a wildlife preserve. So it's it is,
Speaker 1: this is a very rare thing. It's not like there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of dog pampis fox hybrids walking around now.
Speaker 1: This occurred in twenty twenty one, and sadly, in March
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, she died of unknown causes. There's
Speaker 1: actually an investigation into her death, but I think that
Speaker 1: the most likely thing is that when you have a
Speaker 1: really rare hybrid, that genetic mix can cause a lot
Speaker 1: of genetic diseases problems, So there was probably some underlying
Speaker 1: health issue that she had that she probably naturally died of.
Speaker 1: But if this analysis is correct and this is truly
Speaker 1: a dog pampas fox hybrid, it is really really remarkable.
Speaker 1: This is like a much bigger deal than like a
Speaker 1: dog wolf hybrid or a zebra horse hybrid, which are both,
Speaker 1: you know, real hybrids that happen. A domesticated dog in
Speaker 1: a pampas fox are in the same family, but ancestors
Speaker 1: of the dog and the pampas fox diverged at least
Speaker 1: six million years ago into two separate groups. So dogs
Speaker 1: like our domesticated dogs like your dog Peanut and my
Speaker 1: dog Cookie are in the genus Canus, and pampas foxes
Speaker 1: are in this genus that's called like Kaloplex. So the
Speaker 1: pampas fox, despite being called a fox, is not actually
Speaker 1: what we think of when we think of like the
Speaker 1: typical red fox. So the red fox is in the
Speaker 1: Vulpes genus, but this pampas fox is not a quote
Speaker 1: unquote true fox. It's in a genus with other South
Speaker 1: American quote unquote foxes called like Kaloplex. So the genus
Speaker 1: Canus that includes you know, our our dog also contains coyotes, jackals, wolves,
Speaker 1: and so hybridization between say wolves and dogs or coyotes
Speaker 1: and wolves like koi wolves. You know, these are things that,
Speaker 1: while somewhat rare, you know, it kind of makes sense
Speaker 1: that it happens because they're in the same family. But
Speaker 1: having this dog and this pampas fox being able to
Speaker 1: hybridize after being separated by many millions of years in
Speaker 1: evolution in two distinct genre genuses. Whereas like common hybrids
Speaker 1: like zebras and horses, coyotes, wolves, tigers, lions, grizzly bears,
Speaker 1: polar bears are all within the same genus. It's really weird.
Speaker 1: It's a super weird thing that they've found here.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Does that call into question the like the taxonomy that
Speaker 3: they had done, or just like it's just weird.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's not a bad question. Like I
Speaker 1: think that it could lead to some investigation in terms
Speaker 1: of the relatedness of this like kloplex genus and canus,
Speaker 1: but you know, it could also just be a really
Speaker 1: rare weird occurrence. It could be also one of the
Speaker 1: theories is that dogs and these pampas foxes are forced
Speaker 1: into the same areas. More so, pampas foxes habitat being
Speaker 1: encroached upon by human activity, meaning that they have to
Speaker 1: get closer to dogs, and so there's more opportunities for
Speaker 1: dog and pampas foxes to mate and so like, even
Speaker 1: if you have like a point zero zero zero one
Speaker 1: percent chance of this happening, if you have enough encounters,
Speaker 1: I guess it could happen. But it is certainly very
Speaker 1: very strange.
Speaker 2: H But it's right.
Speaker 3: I guess it's also like there's like biology isn't hard lines,
Speaker 3: even though that's how we have to talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but yeah, yeah, right, right, right, it's like, yeah, going
Speaker 3: to happen much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very rarely. Is there really hardline in biology? There
Speaker 1: is typically some exceptions In fact like this, this intergeneric
Speaker 1: breeding is not completely unheard of. So sheep and goats
Speaker 1: can actually produce jeeps or shots, so again very very rare.
Speaker 1: But these are two species that are in different genre
Speaker 1: and so even more rare though, which does very very
Speaker 1: infrequently happen, are hybrids from different families of animals, So like,
Speaker 1: you know, at least the dogs and pampas foxes are
Speaker 1: in the same family, goats and sheep are in the
Speaker 1: same family. Sometimes like animals that are in completely different
Speaker 1: families just are able to hybridize, which is super weird.
Speaker 1: This has been seen to happen in chickens and guinea fowl,
Speaker 1: which is again super weird. Like typically they die before
Speaker 1: being born, and even if they manage to hatch, they
Speaker 1: will die young due to genetic problems. But it's just
Speaker 1: it's just a it's something that I guess makes the
Speaker 1: world feel kind of weird and small, because you know,
Speaker 1: you have it's like, wait, completely different animals are not
Speaker 1: supposed to be able to breed, but you know, if
Speaker 1: they're lucky once in a while they can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well who else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it'd be like a human in a
Speaker 1: chimpanzee being able to breed. It's like, you know, the
Speaker 1: idea of it. It feels unholy, it feels like something
Speaker 1: that should we should be smoked by some kind of
Speaker 1: evolutionary god. But yeah, I mean it happens in animals.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying we should try to make it happen.
Speaker 1: I think that's a bad idea.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but that's the one hybrid I do remember
Speaker 3: from I assume biology class at somewhere is that it
Speaker 3: is possible to make a human Z, which is probably pleasant. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's very unpleasant to think about.
Speaker 1: It's theoretically possible, but I don't There has never been
Speaker 1: a case, a real case of it. There was once
Speaker 1: where it was like some chimpanzee that probably had some
Speaker 1: kind of genetic abnormality and people are like, oh, maybe
Speaker 1: that's a human Z. But no, it was not.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, maybe I misremember.
Speaker 1: I think there was like some very strange Russian scientist
Speaker 1: during the Soviet era who is trying to create humans's
Speaker 1: I do not think successfully, not successful, But yeah, look
Speaker 1: at like, look at I have sent you some pictures
Speaker 1: of this little this pampas fox dog hybrid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love her.
Speaker 2: Look at that, Like she's so cute.
Speaker 1: She's got kind of a black and brown modeled coat,
Speaker 1: and she's just got like a sort of pointier snoot,
Speaker 1: I guess, a little bit more of a triangular face,
Speaker 1: pointy ears. She does look like she could definitely just
Speaker 1: be a strange sort of dog. But yeah, off, she's
Speaker 1: at lenkier, a little bit off for a dog.
Speaker 2: I guess that's true. Dogs are have such variation. Though
Speaker 2: you know it's true.
Speaker 3: I would not guess that this is a hybrid by
Speaker 3: by any stretch.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know just all kinds of dogs, so.
Speaker 1: There could be I mean, there could be more of them, right,
Speaker 1: Like you see a stray dog in a country where
Speaker 1: there's a ton of stray dogs and it's a little weird,
Speaker 1: a little pointy, and you're like, it's just like a
Speaker 1: sort of angular, right straight dog, right like.
Speaker 2: Right, like, how would you how could you for sure?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Without testing?
Speaker 1: I suppose, right, And you don't go around testing every dog,
Speaker 1: every straight dog you find. I mean, it's a miracle
Speaker 1: they even not anymore, not since.
Speaker 2: The restraining car, since the incident.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean like if they hadn't, like I mean,
Speaker 1: if this dog hadn't been hit by car, and if
Speaker 1: they didn't go like well too bad, so sad and
Speaker 1: didn't take it into the vet, like, we wouldn't have known.
Speaker 1: So it's just just the chance of this happening, is
Speaker 1: what bewilders me. Is Like, it is such a tiny
Speaker 1: chance that this hybrid would happen and that we'd find
Speaker 1: it and that we'd test for it and it'd survived
Speaker 1: this getting hit by a car. It's just so many
Speaker 1: things had to align for this to happen. Or maybe
Speaker 1: these hybrids are happening all the time, but we're just
Speaker 1: not recording them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's that, I guess, is the thing, right,
Speaker 3: because it is like how often would you even bother testing?
Speaker 2: Like right, yeah, yeah, just like it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: Following a dog around with like a mouth swab or
Speaker 1: a syringe. You know, we don't. Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: like again, yeah.
Speaker 2: They don't let me do that anymore.
Speaker 1: No, not anymore, not anymore.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break and when
Speaker 1: we get back we're going to talk about some more
Speaker 1: good doggies who do a good job. Good dog, Yeah,
Speaker 1: good job. Can Peanut hear me? Pina, you're a good yoggy.
Speaker 2: I have had phones, but I don't just particularly just
Speaker 2: doesn't give a shame about anything. So she's she's going
Speaker 2: to stay asleep.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, Cookies, Uh, gives very much a crap
Speaker 1: about it everything at all times, which you know, is great.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm not tired at all. All right, we will be
Speaker 1: right back. Okay, we are back, and we are talking
Speaker 1: about dogs who are amazing and good and so wonderful
Speaker 1: and I love them, love them so much. So I
Speaker 1: have talked about how dogs have incredible noses. Their sense
Speaker 1: of smell is something that is hard for the human
Speaker 1: mind to conceive. They have such sensitivity and complexity of
Speaker 1: their senses, their smelling senses. I really think that for
Speaker 1: a dog, smelling thing is as rich and deep in
Speaker 1: experience as like seeing things or hearing things is for
Speaker 1: human like reading a book for a human. For a
Speaker 1: dog is like smelling another dog's But it's just like
Speaker 1: I am reading your Facebook profile, except it is your
Speaker 1: anal glands.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it is certainly most most people are
Speaker 3: not like that, but not all people are not not
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, I feel like this restraining order is making more
Speaker 1: and more sense. But so Peanut, your dog does she
Speaker 1: like to smell things?
Speaker 2: She does?
Speaker 3: She just this week, just before we started recording, she
Speaker 3: like went outside and just not even smell.
Speaker 2: This is also just so gross.
Speaker 3: But she was like really going to town on a
Speaker 3: corner of a sidewalk, which I assume was where someone
Speaker 3: had peed, and then just took like a little teeny
Speaker 3: tiny lick and I was like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 3: so gross.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you gotta taste the stain. Sometimes there's a mystery
Speaker 1: stain and you gotta taste it. Yeah, always taste it.
Speaker 1: So dogs have this wonderful, extraordinary sense, and they are
Speaker 1: also amazing animals that have co evolved with us and
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, want to please us. So with these
Speaker 1: powers combined, we can teach dogs how to be super
Speaker 1: dogs who can use their sense of smell to do
Speaker 1: amazing things. Not for searching for drugs, because that's BS
Speaker 1: and I do not like the use of dogs as
Speaker 1: like police sniffer dogs. That is all totally bunk or not.
Speaker 1: It's not totally bunk. They can smell drugs and stuff,
Speaker 1: but they're also so sensitive to their handlers that they
Speaker 1: give so many like fall signals because they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you want me to say there's drugs here, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: drugs here. So yeah, So not so much a fan
Speaker 1: of that. But what I am a fan of is
Speaker 1: using dog smells to save the environment. So there are
Speaker 1: dogs that have been trained how to help see turtles.
Speaker 1: So sea turtle populations are vulnerable, and so conservationists often
Speaker 1: inspect the beaches where sea turtles lay their eggs to
Speaker 1: protect them from poachers, both animal poachers and humans. So
Speaker 1: they want to protect them from scavengers. I know, it's
Speaker 1: like one of those things where we're tipping the scales
Speaker 1: sometimes because scavengers want to eat food and what. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of we've already sort of messed
Speaker 1: the balance up enough that we try to maintain these
Speaker 1: sea turtle populations so you know, lesser of two evils perhaps,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's also to protect them from human poachers.
Speaker 1: So in southeastern US, there are a ton of sea
Speaker 1: turtles that come to the beaches, including loggerheads, camps, Ridley's
Speaker 1: Green sea turtles and leather backs. They gather on beaches
Speaker 1: at night at a certain time of year to lay
Speaker 1: their eggs in nests. And what a nest is is
Speaker 1: basically they dig a hole, they plunk out these little
Speaker 1: golf ball like eggs, cover the hole and leave. Parenting easy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the ideal.
Speaker 3: You just kind of like put of in a hole
Speaker 3: and that's that, and that you've done your job.
Speaker 1: You cover them in sand and then you leave, because
Speaker 1: that is you know, it builds character for the for
Speaker 1: the children. So conservationists then have a hard time finding
Speaker 1: these sea turtle nests because it's buried in the sand.
Speaker 1: It's like buried treasure. Also, seed turtles will sometimes go
Speaker 1: like they might make tracks, but sometimes they'll go try
Speaker 1: to lay eggs and nothing comes out, and then they
Speaker 1: just go back to the seas. So that you can
Speaker 1: dig where you see tracks and there's nothing there. So
Speaker 1: it's also kind of a time sensitive thing. You want
Speaker 1: to like find where these nests are and observe them
Speaker 1: and make sure to protect these areas before you know,
Speaker 1: time runs out. And so they have have trained some
Speaker 1: dogs to smell chloakele mucus, which is doesn't that sound lovely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, it's not worse than any other
Speaker 3: thing my dog likes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, Like again, I love that dogs love stinky, heinous,
Speaker 1: disgusting things. And we're like, you know what, that's that's
Speaker 1: an employable skill right there. So next time your dog
Speaker 1: smells like some pile of goo on the ground and
Speaker 1: you don't want to know what it is, just remember
Speaker 1: there are dogs out there that use that skill to
Speaker 1: find cloacal mucus and save the turtles.
Speaker 3: So I I'm loving it.
Speaker 1: So there are some professional sea turtle egg sniffers. There
Speaker 1: is Dory, a Florida mutt who is uh who is
Speaker 1: rescued from the side of the road in Florida, and
Speaker 1: Captain Ron, who is a beagle who's apparently also a captain.
Speaker 1: They were both trained by dog behavioral expert Pepe Peruyero
Speaker 1: to detect these eggs, and they have been tested and
Speaker 1: they can be more accurate and more efficient in certain
Speaker 1: circumstances at detecting sea turtle nests than humans. So essentially
Speaker 1: the dogs are after our jobs.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's okay. Now I'm anti dog, I
Speaker 3: guess right. A lot of trigulation here yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we were worried about to what
Speaker 1: is it automation and the robots staying here jobs? But
Speaker 1: it was dogs, dogs the whole time. They're going to
Speaker 1: take our jobs. Uh, and then you're just gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: gotta try to go to McDonald's and there's a dog
Speaker 1: with its you know, giving you urger.
Speaker 2: And now I'm not now a pro dog taking our job.
Speaker 2: There's a lot to figure. I feel like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a complex issue, right, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, if you don't mind, like if they get a
Speaker 1: little bit of like slobbery in your fries, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yep, right, the evidence suggests I don't mind, given
Speaker 3: how I live my life so.
Speaker 1: Like, and they're you know, if you think they're only
Speaker 1: coming after uh service jobs, they're probably gonna start a
Speaker 1: podcast too. So I'm going to be out of a
Speaker 1: job because who would who wouldn't rather listen to a
Speaker 1: dog than to me? Like, honestly, oh man, do they
Speaker 1: make dog podcasts?
Speaker 2: I guess they make something.
Speaker 1: They must, right, there must just be a podcast that's
Speaker 1: like just a dog sort of breathing.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 3: I guess there's those like I mean, I think spam
Speaker 3: YouTube channels that are just like four hours of a squirrel.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah? Is there like dog asmr that's just the
Speaker 1: sound of hot dog breath, stinky stinky dog.
Speaker 3: Breath has to be just because it's like.
Speaker 1: Not right, it's there's ASMR of everything, and there's podcasts
Speaker 1: of everything. Maybe maybe Cookie and Peanut should start their
Speaker 1: own podcast where it's just kind of mouth sounds, you know,
Speaker 1: licking sounds.
Speaker 3: Or just dumb, dumb weird humans, you know, right, other
Speaker 3: weird like, oh, wouldn't even let me lick any.
Speaker 1: P right, happening, Yeah, exactly complaining about owners, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's happening. The dogs will take all of our jobs.
Speaker 1: But you know, apparently dogs and conservationists can work together, uh,
Speaker 1: such as the case with sniffing out invasive species. So
Speaker 1: in Alberta, Canada, trained dogs such as a Helo the
Speaker 1: black labrador checks the holes of boats for invasive muscles
Speaker 1: and sniffs out invasive bore turds, which is just like
Speaker 1: that must be candy to dogs, like bore turds are
Speaker 1: you kiddmny. And they also can detect the aroma of
Speaker 1: invasive plants. So it is a really important job because,
Speaker 1: for instance, an invasive muscle the bivalves that can cling
Speaker 1: to things. It can be the larva. The muscle can
Speaker 1: be the size of a grain of rice. So visually
Speaker 1: it might be really hard to see, but having the
Speaker 1: dog's keen nose can help spot these really tiny muscles,
Speaker 1: and that can prevent invasive muscles from causing mayhem in
Speaker 1: the local waterways, which is really dangerous for the local ecosystems.
Speaker 1: It also costs a lot of money. So humans will
Speaker 1: be looking at the same boat and visually looking for
Speaker 1: anything while the dog is sniffing out anything. So they're
Speaker 1: working together. You know, humans have really good vision and
Speaker 1: dogs have really good sense of smell, and we're combining
Speaker 1: those to be the ultimate kind of unit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and it is like, how good are your
Speaker 3: eyes really compared to I mean, yeah, like finding especially
Speaker 3: finding a little muscle. It seems like noses by far
Speaker 3: the best way to go. I might even have to
Speaker 3: use my nose given the senses I have available.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to be fair human beings, like in general,
Speaker 1: our eyesight and our color kind of spectrum, while not
Speaker 1: the best in the animal kingdom, it's pretty good. Like
Speaker 1: we have a wider range of colors that we can
Speaker 1: see than dogs, and so we our visual system in
Speaker 1: terms of detail is probably better than a dog. But
Speaker 1: you know, dog's sense of smell is like ridiculously better
Speaker 1: than a human sense of smell. So it is. I
Speaker 1: just think it's kind of cute that we have. Like
Speaker 1: us and wolves were like, hey, we have different skills
Speaker 1: here that we're going to share. Okay, fine, you can
Speaker 1: breed us to look really cute, but essentially, like you know,
Speaker 1: we bring the nose. We're the nose of the operation,
Speaker 1: and you're the eyes and hands of the operation because
Speaker 1: those opposable thumbs get really good butt scratches.
Speaker 2: And then just thumbs is key.
Speaker 1: Thumbs is Thumbs is the one thing, right, Like when
Speaker 1: my dog is feeling a little smug, I'm just like, thumbs, dude,
Speaker 1: how are you going to open up your bag of
Speaker 1: dog food without these babies?
Speaker 2: It's true, It's true.
Speaker 3: Piana actually is Like also, like I was watching my
Speaker 3: friend's dog and I kind of forgot because they were
Speaker 3: about the same size, but this other dog was much
Speaker 3: much more of a go getter, and I didn't realize
Speaker 3: I had to like quite hide the treat bag the
Speaker 3: way I ultimately needed to because I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: like a dog with wherewithal will just open the shut
Speaker 3: right right with their mouth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whenever, my when my dog has never quite figured
Speaker 1: out how to open the treats bag, so she can
Speaker 1: seize the means of production, but then she doesn't know
Speaker 1: what to do with it once she sees it. So
Speaker 1: like she has it and you can tell she feels
Speaker 1: the power and the autonomy of being able to treat herself,
Speaker 1: but then that final step of opening it up, she
Speaker 1: is befunny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one in particular was more of a brute
Speaker 2: force sort of situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tearing it open, Yeah, yeah, Cookie, I should mention
Speaker 1: is a small dog.
Speaker 2: She is.
Speaker 1: She is little, and though she is fierce, she does
Speaker 1: not have much in terms of raw power, so she
Speaker 1: has to uh invent other ways to terrorize me, including
Speaker 1: stealing my socks. Holding things hostage is kind of her technique,
Speaker 1: like my socks, right, docum. She knows she can hear
Speaker 1: the printer and she will run over and grab documents
Speaker 1: right out of the printer because she knows TH's are
Speaker 1: important and I want them.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so cute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's my malicious secretary.
Speaker 2: And you have a printer I would see what are
Speaker 2: those in years?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, you know, it's a relic of the past.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I've I have a blood packed for all of
Speaker 1: the printer ink, so I gotta make use.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm start making your own.
Speaker 1: Five thousand dollars a month for that printer ink. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break and when
Speaker 1: we get back, we are going to talk about some
Speaker 1: rat dogs as in they are radioactive. We will be
Speaker 1: right back. So, Andrew, do you know about the Chernobyl
Speaker 1: little uh oopsy bopsy that happened over there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit, although I feel like I'm not
Speaker 3: as up to speed as most people because I didn't
Speaker 3: watch the show about it, which seems to be the
Speaker 3: easiest pop cultural way to digest all the information.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch the show either because I've I have
Speaker 1: read a lot about the Chernobyl disaster, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to watch it because it's depressing. And also there's
Speaker 1: details that I think the show might get into in
Speaker 1: terms of just like when you're exposed to huge amount
Speaker 1: of radiation, even if you don't die immediately, like almost
Speaker 1: it's better if you die immediately because the days and
Speaker 1: weeks of dying of radiation poisoning, where like your skin
Speaker 1: falls off and your hair and teeth just like fall out,
Speaker 1: and just your body is essentially disintegrating. It's like truly horrific.
Speaker 1: I you know, do not recommend reading about it if
Speaker 1: you're if you like to sleep well, No, I also
Speaker 1: don't recommend getting it, you know, all right, you know
Speaker 1: if you if you haven't, yeah, I know, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, like you know, the Nanny state coming in
Speaker 1: telling me what I can and can't do with my
Speaker 1: DNA strands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or whatever's left.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, like the Chernoble Exclusion Zone, it was
Speaker 1: you know, for a good amount of time abandoned by
Speaker 1: humans because of the deadly, deadly radiation after the reactor meltdown.
Speaker 1: That it did kill people, and it was horrible, horrifying,
Speaker 1: also really sad, like when people had to up and
Speaker 1: abandon their homes, they often had to leave their dogs behind,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the dogs were killed by authorities
Speaker 1: because there was fears that they would spread disease or
Speaker 1: nuclear contamination because you know, the dogs were irradiated. But
Speaker 1: enough of the dogs survived that they created a population
Speaker 1: of hundreds of feral but friendly dogs who are just
Speaker 1: still hanging out in the Chernobyl exclusion zone. And so
Speaker 1: like the difference between like a wild animal and a
Speaker 1: feral animal, as feral animals are domesticated animals that have
Speaker 1: you know, just do not have any owners and are
Speaker 1: out and about making it on their own, whereas a
Speaker 1: wild animal has not been domesticated, like a wolf is
Speaker 1: going to act very differently from a feral dog because
Speaker 1: the faral dog is generally going to be a lot friendlier,
Speaker 1: not always, So don't go and like always, you know,
Speaker 1: just immediately put your face up to the mouth of
Speaker 1: a feral dog. That might not be a good idea,
Speaker 1: but often feral dogs are pretty friendly. And these ones definitely,
Speaker 1: like are relatively friendly. They will accept handouts from humans,
Speaker 1: Like there are people now in the Chernobyle exclusion zone,
Speaker 1: which is wild to me, but they do have to
Speaker 1: like actually take care of the reactor because there's still
Speaker 1: like active reactors there and if you don't maintain it,
Speaker 1: it's a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, oh that's so.
Speaker 3: Wait, Okay, so the difference wild and feral refers to
Speaker 3: individual organisms or.
Speaker 1: No whole species.
Speaker 2: Okay, I see, I see right, right, right, So it
Speaker 2: is dogs.
Speaker 3: These species have been domesticated, Yes, but these I got Okay,
Speaker 3: so it's not it's not like a formerly.
Speaker 2: Owned right.
Speaker 1: No, you can't undomesticate a dog unless I guess it
Speaker 1: is it's like bread with wolf populations or something for years,
Speaker 1: or if there's like some kind of like I guess
Speaker 1: in theory, you could have a wild popular or a
Speaker 1: feral population of dogs that genetically stray far enough from
Speaker 1: domesticated dogs that it forms like a new species. But
Speaker 1: generally speaking, yeah, if it's a like if you have
Speaker 1: a chicken and it escapes and it lives in the
Speaker 1: forest and it becomes the king chicken of the forest, like,
Speaker 1: it's still a domesticated chicken. It's just answered the call
Speaker 1: of the wild, and it's a feral chicken.
Speaker 3: And that chicken's offspring even if assuming it's with another chicken,
Speaker 3: even if they've never been in a coop, Ye, you're
Speaker 3: still domesticated.
Speaker 1: Still domesticated. Because domestication is a genetic process, taming is
Speaker 1: a behavioral process. So a tame wolf is a wolf
Speaker 1: who has been you know, raised since a puppy. You
Speaker 1: tamed it, you trained it, and then it ate your
Speaker 1: face one time, but like you know, overall, it's a
Speaker 1: still pretty a good wolf other than that pinky it got.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a tame animal. Domesticated animal is like you
Speaker 1: know a chicken or a floppy or Danny or you
Speaker 1: know a cow like something.
Speaker 3: That has been mostly bread but yes, or whatever to
Speaker 3: need to coexist with humans.
Speaker 1: Yes, that we have. We have tinkered around with its DNA.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't want to kill us, you're right, or
Speaker 1: it's not afraid of us, yeah, exactly. So these dogs
Speaker 1: are they are domesticated dogs. They are just a feral
Speaker 1: population of domesticated dogs. But it's an interesting situation because
Speaker 1: there is some interaction between these dogs and human beings
Speaker 1: in the area. Like I said, like people still have
Speaker 1: to be in the exclusion zone because they have to
Speaker 1: maintain the power plant, which was wild to me. It
Speaker 1: was like, how I mean, obviously the radiation levels have
Speaker 1: diminished substantially since the reactor meltdown that happened. What was
Speaker 1: that the eighties?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the seventh we watched the show.
Speaker 1: It's always mystery Chernobyle eighties disaster. Uh yeah, in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty six. Uh wow, For once in my life. I
Speaker 1: remembered a history fact, so uh the uh. There's like
Speaker 1: actually a nonprofit organization called the Clean Futures Fund, which
Speaker 1: has set out to offer medical care and support to
Speaker 1: the employees who work in the power plant, like maintaining it,
Speaker 1: you know, because you have to have a whole whole
Speaker 1: crew of employees there, people who are actually maintaining the plant, janitors,
Speaker 1: people who serve food to everyone, and they actually have
Speaker 1: to work in shifts so that they don't get overly
Speaker 1: exposed to the still present radiation. So like they'll do
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks on, a couple weeks off
Speaker 1: so that they don't you know, get overly exposed, but
Speaker 1: obviously still like there is a concern of their health.
Speaker 1: So there's this organization, nonprofit and then they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, there's all these dogs around, and they noticed that,
Speaker 1: like some of these dogs seem to need medical care.
Speaker 1: So they also started offering the dogs vaccines, spaying and
Speaker 1: neutering the dogs, taking blood samples, generally just kind of
Speaker 1: trying to take care of these dogs. Again, they're still
Speaker 1: feral dogs, Like they're not you know, as far as
Speaker 1: I know, they're not being adopted partially because they're like irradiated,
Speaker 1: but they are being somewhat looked after now and this
Speaker 1: has presented researchers with a very tantalizing opportunity, which is
Speaker 1: looking at these dogs genetic makeups and seeing how the
Speaker 1: exposure to radiation over many generations of these dogs has
Speaker 1: impacted them. So it turns out they're actually too distinct
Speaker 1: populations of these Chernobyle dogs. There are dogs who live
Speaker 1: like right near the power plant. They're like within this
Speaker 1: sort of fenced area that is the power plant. And
Speaker 1: then there are a separate population of dogs who live
Speaker 1: in Chernobyl City, which is kind of like outside of
Speaker 1: the power plant, still kind of in the exclusion zone.
Speaker 1: But interestingly, these dogs don't seem to breed with each
Speaker 1: other that much, the power plant dogs and the Chernobyl
Speaker 1: City dogs, not because of some like what is it
Speaker 1: like Romeo and Juliet blood feud, but because there's like
Speaker 1: fencing that seems to limit their ability to interact. So
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of like an like lady in the tramp,
Speaker 1: But it's like they are irradiated and you know, slightly glowing. Uh,
Speaker 1: they don't glow, which is too bad. But so uh,
Speaker 1: but that's also really interesting because now you have two
Speaker 1: populations of dogs, some closer to the radiation and some
Speaker 1: further away that they can study both of these distinct populations.
Speaker 1: And also they have found that a lot of these
Speaker 1: dogs have German Shepherd DNA, which is likely because the
Speaker 1: most popular dog in the area at the time of
Speaker 1: the meltdown was a German shepherd, so when they left,
Speaker 1: they're all these German shepherds. They were probably also most
Speaker 1: likely to be the dogs that would survive on their own,
Speaker 1: So you have a high amount of German Shepherd DNA
Speaker 1: and other European shepherd DNA and these dogs. They plan
Speaker 1: to compare the DNA sequences of both of these dog populations,
Speaker 1: the chernobyle dogs with each other and with the DNA
Speaker 1: of like say, German shepherds, other shepherds that are that
Speaker 1: are not irradiated, that are you know, just sort of
Speaker 1: your standard dogs, to see how this radiation has changed
Speaker 1: the dog's genomes and like, what is the impact of
Speaker 1: this low level constant radiation over many generations of dogs,
Speaker 1: Has it like forced them to evolve in some way?
Speaker 1: I don't, They don't have answers yet, but I think
Speaker 1: this is really interesting and exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah huh, I mean right, And it's just because this
Speaker 3: like cannot really occur, Like even if like there's an
Speaker 3: animal population near like a uranium or vein or something,
Speaker 3: it's not like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like this constant you you can't get this.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean they have they have like
Speaker 1: done research on wild animal populations in this area as well,
Speaker 1: like looking in how it has affected their their phenotypic presentation,
Speaker 1: how it's affected their DNA, like sometimes it has affected
Speaker 1: say bird coloration because this ends up also impacting how
Speaker 1: the birds are able to like fight free radicals in
Speaker 1: their bodies. So there's really interesting stuff that goes on here.
Speaker 1: So I'm really excited to learn more about what is
Speaker 1: going on with these dogs. This is something I will
Speaker 1: definitely keep my eye on, keep people posted. But it's
Speaker 1: also just really cool that there are these like chernobyle
Speaker 1: dogs out hanging out, uh doing Okay, I guess, Like obviously,
Speaker 1: I think it gets tough for them in the winter,
Speaker 1: and so this nonprofit group is also trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that they don't overbreed or starve or anything. But
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's just like the tenacity of
Speaker 1: these dogs. Yeah, like literally survive a nuclear meltdown and
Speaker 1: then survive in the wild, and they're all slightly irradiated,
Speaker 1: but they're still cute and still fluffy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, the compound of the confound is also surely like
Speaker 3: what the part happens on their own humans everywhere.
Speaker 1: Well, no, that is you are absolutely right. That is
Speaker 1: a great point because a lot of the animal populations
Speaker 1: in this area of different species are doing surprisingly well.
Speaker 1: And the ideas like, well, wait, is low level radiation
Speaker 1: good for them? Or is it that there aren't humans
Speaker 1: around messing with the environment which actually allows them to thrive?
Speaker 1: Both things are you know, plausible explanations Like obviously radiation,
Speaker 1: don't go huffing radiation, But there's some idea of like
Speaker 1: a really low level radiation could do something in terms
Speaker 1: of like your body produces more free radical uh, more
Speaker 1: more ways to antioxidants to fight free radicals, and therefore
Speaker 1: that might have a protective effect for other disease or something.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's it's an interesting thing. Again,
Speaker 1: I me and my lawyers cannot emphasize enough don't get
Speaker 1: yourself radiated yeah, I guess I.
Speaker 2: Lean more towards the humanity is more toxic than radiation.
Speaker 1: I think that for the Earth, I think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's almost certain that a lot of the animals
Speaker 1: doing well in this area are because it's been mostly
Speaker 1: abandoned by people. I think that this other effect of radiation,
Speaker 1: maybe having like a slightly protective effect, may be true
Speaker 1: of animals living on the fringe, like where they're kind
Speaker 1: of further away from the radiation. And it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting idea. It could be a it could be a combo.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that these dogs do well and that the
Speaker 1: radiation gave them cool powers. I know that's not how
Speaker 1: it works, but sometimes, you know, I can dream that,
Speaker 1: like we'll get some psychic dogs out of the deal.
Speaker 2: Are just very bright dogs.
Speaker 1: Right right, just like highly intelligent radiated dogs who know
Speaker 1: nuclear secrets. What could go wrong?
Speaker 2: I guess that's true. They can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1: Yes, no thumbs, that's right, baby, you want to you
Speaker 1: want to turn the key to start a nuclear war?
Speaker 1: Where's your thumbs? I don't see them. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would actually feel safer if dogs were in charge of
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons. I don't think they'd ever use them because
Speaker 1: they're good. It's dogs are good boys and girls. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: Peter feels like she would sell out the earth for
Speaker 2: just a few few treats.
Speaker 1: Okay, and in them only dogs excluding Chihuahba was in Pomeranians. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my dog is probably a combination of chihuau and Pomeranian.
Speaker 1: So she is not allowed to be in charge of
Speaker 1: the nuclear codes because she would just like if she's
Speaker 1: not getting enough belly scratches, she would threaten war.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels very likely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as it stands now, she just kicks me until
Speaker 1: I pet her. But yeah, if she had mutually assured destruction,
Speaker 1: if like the belly rubs do not continue, it'd be
Speaker 1: a bad situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1: All right, before we go, we gotta play a little
Speaker 1: game called the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every week I
Speaker 1: play a mystery animal sound in You the listener, and
Speaker 1: you the guests, try to guess who is making that sound.
Speaker 1: It can be any animal in the world. Uh. Last
Speaker 1: week ten it was this when he's crabby, he's happy?
Speaker 1: All right, did you hear that little yelp?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I'm gonna go with an otter.
Speaker 1: Interesting guess I mean, okay, this is very interesting because
Speaker 1: like you're close in terms of its diet, but not
Speaker 1: the animal. So this is the crab eating fox. So
Speaker 1: h congratcha relations to Roberts who gets correctly. Remember how
Speaker 1: we talked about the pampas fox earlier, So this is
Speaker 1: in the same genus as the pampas fox. This is
Speaker 1: not a true fox, but a South American canad in
Speaker 1: the genus. I can never say this good, like like
Speaker 1: alo plex. So crab eating foxes look similar to a fox.
Speaker 1: They're gray, they have a fox like snout, little fluffy tail.
Speaker 1: They only get up to around fifteen pounds, which is
Speaker 1: about seven kilograms. But it's more closely related to a
Speaker 1: rare canad called the short eared dog, which lives in
Speaker 1: the Amazon, than it is to any kind of red fox.
Speaker 1: So the crab eating fox, as its name suggests, eats crabs.
Speaker 1: They hunt in monogamous pears, and when they get separated,
Speaker 1: they will call out for each other like these little
Speaker 1: these little yelps. They make other sounds too. I had
Speaker 1: a dick and of a time trying to find any
Speaker 1: any audio online of this the crab eating fox making sound.
Speaker 1: They are typically quite quiet. So I just found this
Speaker 1: on a random Facebook page of a random like uh
Speaker 1: organization that studies animals, and it was all in Spanish,
Speaker 1: so it was a little tricky for me to figure
Speaker 1: it out, but I found it. So there you go.
Speaker 1: That's what sounds like.
Speaker 2: That's a bad plus love love love to eat a crab, so.
Speaker 1: Right, I know, right? Like, man, these fox delicious.
Speaker 2: I did watch. I watched a YouTube video recently have
Speaker 2: a sting ray eating a king crab and.
Speaker 1: It was wild nice man some some uh just I
Speaker 1: don't know why, but when animals eat seafood it makes
Speaker 1: me hungry, like seeing a lion deep and like an
Speaker 1: antelope carcass does nothing for me. But if I when
Speaker 1: a bear like is just chowing down on a sand,
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's essentially sushi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, delicious, delicious.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: The crab eating fox does indeed eat crabs, and it
Speaker 1: will eat also rodents, small reptiles, insects, eggs, fruit, and more.
Speaker 1: It'll pretty much eat anything, but it does specialize in
Speaker 1: eating crabs, which, man, I feel like I would invite
Speaker 1: this fox to a crab crab crab boil. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: very cute. All right, onto this week's mister animal sound
Speaker 1: the hint. This baby has one of the longest snoots,
Speaker 1: but definitely don't boo. All right, you hear that weird
Speaker 1: little sound? Mm hmmm uh, got any guesses?
Speaker 2: Long snoop? Okay, craymm I guess that like a like
Speaker 2: an anti eater. So deal.
Speaker 1: That is an excellent guest. I'm not gonna tell you
Speaker 1: if you're right or not. We will find out next
Speaker 1: time on Creature Feature. If you think you know what
Speaker 1: is making that sound right to me at Creature featurepot
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also write to me
Speaker 1: your questions, your photos of your pet dog or cat
Speaker 1: or gerbil. No pictures of pet bunnies, I'm joking, send
Speaker 1: those two, send all of them. Andrew T thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. Can tell people where
Speaker 1: to find you?
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, just on my podcast is called Jos's Racist.
Speaker 2: It's not very much like this, but you're supposedly just
Speaker 2: take an advice show. People call it. You know. It's
Speaker 2: silly as it can be.
Speaker 1: Like man, if you like animals, you should like people too.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1: That Yeah, there you go, and fun.
Speaker 2: And Peanut the dog is a frequent guest.
Speaker 1: There you go, Peanut's got some problematic opinions.
Speaker 2: But you know, oh my god, yeah, I'll straighten her
Speaker 2: out one day.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening. If you're enjoying
Speaker 1: the show, you can leave a rating or review. I
Speaker 1: read every single one of the reviews. I print them
Speaker 1: all out. I turn them into a giant paper mache
Speaker 1: statue that I call my ego. And thanks to the
Speaker 1: Space Cossics for their super awesome song Exo. Lumina Creature
Speaker 1: features a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts like the
Speaker 1: one you just heard was the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast?
Speaker 1: Or get are Yeah, I'm gonna actually redo that so
Speaker 1: that you can understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Sure, or hey, guess what?
Speaker 1: Wherever you listen to your favorite shows, See you next Wednesday.