1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, Broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 6 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the 10 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. 11 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not May Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: Before we jump in, if you haven't already, I invite 13 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: you to tap follow. It only takes a couple of 14 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: seconds and it helps this show reach more families who 15 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: need to hear these conversations. Thanks for being here today. 16 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: We bring together a group of seven voices, each with 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: their own experiences, perspectives, and stories. We will talk about 18 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: something that affects far more people than we often realize, 19 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: serious mental illness in the spirit of Mental Health Awareness Month. 20 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: This is not just a discussion, it's an opportunity, an 21 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: opportunity to listen, to understand, and to bring light to 22 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: conversations that are too often left in the dark. Joining 23 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: us today is Crystal Fox, David Hagar, Laura Crasian, Linda Mimes, 24 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Judge Milton Mack, Rachel Streithe, and Anne Cochrane. This topic matters. 25 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: It touches families, friendships, and entire communities. This is the 26 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: final episode of our three part series that we'll focus 27 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: on serious mental illness. Today we are creating a space 28 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: where honesty is welcome, where stories can be shared, and 29 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: where understanding can begin or deepen. For all of us listening, 30 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm grateful to everyone that's joined us today. Let's start 31 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: this episode with this. When someone says they have the 32 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: right to refuse help, but they're clearly in the middle 33 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: of psychosis or severe mental illness, are they truly capable 34 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: of making that decision? And if not, how do we 35 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: ethically step in without being seen as taking their rights 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: away but instead as trying to save their life. 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: Now, there is power attorneys which's going to be used 38 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: for mental health, and you could for those people. You 39 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: can say, look, while you're competent to make decisions, you 40 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: can put off this power attorney and you can define 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: who's going to be your fair provider. You can define 42 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: what par treatment you'll accept, and you can take yourself out. Now, 43 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: that'll take yourself out to a point. It won't take 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: you out of should become a violent and actually dangerous 45 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: to other people. But they'll take you off if you're 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: a risk of PIM. Now there's a sumone in Carolinas 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: has come up with that for him, but it hasn't 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: worked so far. 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: David, Psychologically speaking, when someone refuses help but they're thinking 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: is being shaped by psychosis, what are your thoughts on 51 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: helping them? 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think of Grandma. You know, people care about grandma. Yeah, 53 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: you know, And if schizophrenia can be ballparked with dementia, 54 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 3: then people might sort of get it. I remember I 55 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 3: used to work in a family medicine doctor's clinic in Florida, 56 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: and he wound up being elected to the Florida House 57 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: and I went and talked with him in his office 58 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 3: at a time when I was advocating for a state 59 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: hospital to stay open and it got closed. But you know, 60 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: I was talking about anasagnosia, and I was asking, why 61 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: is it that a woman, you know, who's thirty years 62 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: old and neuropsychiatrically gravely disabled is sleeping under the bridge 63 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 3: to stay away from satellites and satellite beams? Why is 64 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: that okay? And considered freedom of choice? But if we 65 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: find grandma wandering around the neighborhood, we do something different. 66 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: And his response was pretty blunt, It was pretty earthy. 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: He said, people care about grandma. They don't give an 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 3: f about that girl under the bridge. 69 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's sad to hear. 70 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 5: I recently talked to a sheriff in our town and 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 5: he was the head of the unit that services our town, 72 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 5: and I said, what if my mother had dementia and 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 5: she was wandering around and wandered into the traffic because 74 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 5: they had just arrested somebody I knew because he had 75 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 5: done that, and then he had hurled a threat at 76 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 5: the officers or something. I don't know all the circumstances. 77 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 5: And he said, oh, well, if somebody with dementia was 78 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 5: wandering around, we would never take them to jail. And 79 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 5: I said, it's the same thing, No, it isn't. It's 80 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 5: completely different. There is a chart somewhere that shows these 81 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 5: similar symptoms with schizophrenia, anisignosia, dementia, and Parkinson's anasignosia, because 82 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 5: anisignosia exhibits in stroke and different other neurological conditions. And 83 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 5: that is a big, big problem that you just brought up, 84 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 5: doctor Higart. That's a big problem because that's what we're 85 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 5: fighting against. 86 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 6: And they're supposed to be trained in c training. 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, somehow people think that they have a choice when 88 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 7: they're younger and on the streets. Again, this class that 89 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 7: I was in today, I kept hearing that, well, they're 90 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 7: choosing to live on the streets, They're choosing this, they're 91 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 7: choosing that, And it's a lot of misinformation that I 92 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 7: think is getting better, but we have a long ways 93 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 7: to go now. 94 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: One option Judge Matt just brought up was power of attorney. 95 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: My understanding in many cases this can develop between seventeen 96 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: and twenty five. At that age, they are just living 97 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: in the moment, not living for a moment when they 98 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: might need help making decisions. So where do we go 99 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: from there? 100 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 5: We have psychiatric advanced directives that all the officials in 101 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 5: the state keep pushing parents to have for their psychiatrically 102 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 5: neuropsychiatrically challenged loved ones. But the trouble is if they 103 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 5: go back into psychosis and if they say they want 104 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 5: to rescind. 105 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 6: That they can. 106 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 5: So what I mean, the only good thing in it 107 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 5: would be that they put in where they'd want to 108 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 5: get treated, what drugs they don't want, you know, their preferences. 109 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 5: But what good is it really if it can just 110 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 5: be rescinded once they're sick again. 111 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: What really hits me is the time lost. Someone brought 112 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: up Eric Smith, and he and I talked about it, 113 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: and it took him years to find the right treatment. 114 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: And he's not alone. I've heard that same ten year 115 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: gap over and over again. So how do we shorten 116 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: that gap? 117 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 5: You have to do mandatory care. You have to, because 118 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 5: that's what happened to Eric. He got into a great 119 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 5: assisted outpatient treatment program in Texas with a wonderful judge. 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 5: I mean, what else can you do? You're asking really 121 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 5: hard questions, told me, But I like it. 122 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 3: I like it. 123 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 5: Yes, you just have to because I know so many 124 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 5: young people that have lost And also, ten years is 125 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 5: the average from the time you show symptoms to the 126 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 5: time you get an actual diagnosis, and a lot of 127 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 5: these kids start getting sick in college and now the 128 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 5: colleges they cannot call the parents. They have these laws. 129 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 5: They can't call and say, hey, something's going on with 130 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 5: your kid. So it's just very frustrating. Everybody shuts out families, 131 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 5: and it's not right because the families are the primary 132 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 5: caregivers because the mental health departments they have abdicated their responsibility, 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 5: and all of the agencies, we're not paying for any assistance. 134 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 5: So you know, either your kid is going to be 135 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 5: on the street in the jail or you have to 136 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 5: take care of your kid. Well, that's not right, and 137 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 5: that is unethical for a society to dump that on 138 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 5: parents who are not trained. And you know, the advocates 139 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 5: I work with now I'm pretty enraged about it. My 140 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 5: background is in public policy and I never, never in 141 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 5: my life, when I was young and naive in grad school, 142 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 5: would ever think that this was happening in our country 143 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 5: because it is not just not right, and it's a 144 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 5: violation of people's human right to have health care, basic 145 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: health care. 146 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 4: Crystal, I think you have some thoughts on this as well. 147 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, I have a strong opinion about this because I 148 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 7: have raised a daughter with autism who at one and 149 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 7: a half years old, we kind of thought, oh, something 150 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 7: just isn't isn't right, She's not doing the typical milestones, 151 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 7: pulled the pediatrician. By two they were like, yeah, we 152 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 7: need to send her. And by two and a half 153 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 7: she had the diagnosis of autism. And I was told 154 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 7: all about it. I was given resources, all the acronyms, IEPs, 155 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 7: ISPs BP, you know, I mean, the whole the boodle, 156 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 7: more than I could even deal with as a parent. 157 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 7: The difference was with Joshua, nobody wanted to call it 158 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 7: what it was. Nobody wanted to say, you have schizophrenia. 159 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 7: And I watched how in autism the ability to be 160 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 7: able to diagnose autism now even as a baby because 161 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 7: they're not looking. You know, I think we can do that. 162 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 7: I maybe doctor Hager agree with me. I think there's 163 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 7: symptoms that are predomal symptoms that we could recognize sooner 164 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 7: that we are ignoring. And if we could get these 165 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 7: kids during their first episode, or even before even tell them, Hey, 166 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 7: your kids kind of a little off, you know, I'm 167 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 7: a little bit concerned that they could be developing a 168 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 7: psychosist disorder or schizophrenia. This is what it looks like. 169 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 7: This may not be that, but you know, let me 170 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 7: know if you see these symptoms. I mean, think of 171 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 7: the difference if we just openly discussed that your loved 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 7: one is in trouble. 173 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 8: Well, my son's friends actually pointed out to us that 174 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 8: he shouldn't smoke marijuana because he's sounding bizarre and he's 175 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 8: saying strange things. And when he went missing, the friends 176 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 8: felt so guilty that they didn't say anything to us sooner. 177 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 8: So I think we're discounting the fact that we could 178 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 8: also be utilizing each other. You know, the colleagues, the 179 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 8: actual education of youth so that they can be on 180 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 8: the lookout for their friends for signs of psychosis. You know, 181 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 8: when we first saw my son with psychosis, he said, 182 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 8: you know, I'm not real, You're not real. As a mother, 183 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 8: I had no idea what to do with that. I 184 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 8: never heard that before. And it's shocking, And these illnesses 185 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 8: are shocking. Delusions, especially bizarre ones, are so disconcerting that 186 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 8: it feels like the floor's coming out from underneath us. 187 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 8: If we could give that shock value to the parents 188 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 8: and the youth in high schools or middle schools. Then 189 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 8: maybe we could be seeing some change. 190 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: What's really hard to reconcile is in this particular case, 191 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm about to tell you everyone was doing their job, 192 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: yet the system still failed them. A seventeen year old 193 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: kid went out and did not come back. His mother 194 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: went to the police. The police said, oh, he's seventeen, 195 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: he's probably just it hooked up someplace, don't worry. One 196 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, he was at gas station and 197 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: their credit card dinged. They called the police. They said, 198 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: do not let him go, we are on our way. 199 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: They got there. No kid, no police. So they go 200 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: to the police station and they tell them, well, he 201 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: was just sleeping the car. He wasn't a threat to 202 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: us or himself. So they let him go. So they're 203 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: still looking for him, and the next day he stabs 204 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: a lady a few times in her leg, winds up 205 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: in jail. Unfortunately, it took five years before it all 206 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: got worked out. Another sad fact, three to four years 207 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: he was in a state of psychosis before they finally 208 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: figured it out. From that very first night until it 209 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: finally got resolved within the court system, it took five years. 210 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: How do we change that dynamic. 211 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 5: We get treatment for those people asap with whatever tools 212 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 5: we have, and if we don't have the tools, we 213 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 5: make them make the tools. 214 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: In this case, he was in Psycho Coasts for three 215 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: and a half years, but they couldn't get anything done 216 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: because during that time he became of age eighteen. 217 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 2: Not right, you know, I want to get back to something. 218 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 2: I want to get back to something Linda said about 219 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 2: the college can tell the parents about the mental health crisis. 220 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: I assume it's not because of hippo. Must be because 221 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: of something else. 222 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 4: Because it's a bad law. 223 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: I forget what it's called, but there is, there's a law. 224 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: It's probably so we're in Michigan. One of our bills, 225 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: which everyone's supporting, would mandate the hospitals can share information 226 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: with families in the event of emergency or for continuity 227 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 2: of care. And because our Michigan statute is focused more 228 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 2: on history than what's happening right now, that history becomes 229 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: very important. So it's a combent upon hospitals now to 230 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: reach back to find out for families or what's from 231 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: go on, what's the history. 232 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 6: Actually, we passed a law in Arizona called John's Law. 233 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 6: That requires psychiatric screening agencies to obtain history from the families. 234 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 6: And that's one challenge we've learned is just passing laws, 235 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 6: which we have passed several in Arizona, is that few 236 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 6: agencies are following the laws that we've passed. But we're 237 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 6: working on that. We're working on the implementation. The other 238 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 6: thing that I think is a problem is that a 239 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 6: lot of agencies view being more strict with HIPPA as better, 240 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 6: and so Arizona even passed HIPPA Clarification Statute in twenty 241 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 6: sixteen to precisely allow and spell out that you could 242 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 6: give information to families if it was in the best 243 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 6: interest of the patient, and you know, all of those 244 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 6: things that HIPPA does allow. We put it in our 245 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 6: state statutes. But agencies are not following it because they 246 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 6: are adding their own HIPPA restrictions because it is viewed 247 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 6: as better to be more restrictive with privacy. 248 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 3: A lot of that's just fear of reprisal error on 249 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 3: the side of being too strict, and you can't get 250 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: in trouble with Medicare. 251 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 7: And I also think you brought up a really good 252 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 7: point Tony. You maybe like think you know, the big 253 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 7: picture of parents calling the police, and parents calling the hospital, 254 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 7: and parents calling, you know, to check on they're nineteen 255 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 7: to twenty five year old. You know, their first response 256 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 7: is they're eighteen. They can do what they want. I mean, 257 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 7: in the big picture, when you're talking to police who 258 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 7: have all sorts of behaviors of this age group, how 259 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 7: do they pinpoint what could be more alarming? So is 260 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 7: it education about schizophrenia and that this age group is 261 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 7: susceptible to this illness and that it needs to be 262 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 7: taken more seriously. And you bring up a good point 263 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 7: that I really hadn't thought of before. 264 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: The beauty of my podcast is I hear these stories 265 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: and by asking these questions, hoping that it impacts the 266 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: listener enough so they ask these same questions to the 267 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: people within their communities. If we can get people asking 268 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: these questions, maybe we can get the level of training 269 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: around conditions like gizophrenia in anisignosia. We have to find 270 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: a way to bridge that gap so that everyone gets 271 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: the help that they need. 272 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 7: And part of that is sometimes when we're calling the 273 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 7: police when our kids are this young of an age 274 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 7: eighteen to twenty four to twenty five, we don't even 275 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 7: know what's going on, so we don't even articulate it 276 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 7: very well. So some of it isn't even their fault. 277 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 7: Some of it's that we don't have the language yet 278 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 7: to even be able to effectively communicate what's going on 279 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 7: because the doctors aren't giving us the language. 280 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: So that leads me to this. There seems to be 281 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: a common thread of the unknown. Families don't know what 282 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: to do, and in many cases, law enforcement doesn't know 283 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: what to do either. 284 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 4: So how do we bridge that gap? 285 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 5: Well, in California, they don't have to do CIT training. 286 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 5: In our county, San Diego County, they do some other 287 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 5: kind of training. Usually Nammy will go in. They have 288 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 5: some people that will go in and help with the 289 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 5: training and talk about the symptoms. Talk about like if 290 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 5: somebody doesn't appear to be, you know, following your direction, 291 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 5: it's because they might be listening to voices in their head. 292 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: You know. 293 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 5: Basically, don't take it personally. Don't think they're trying to 294 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 5: defy you, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm telling you, 295 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 5: I don't think for many of these officers it is 296 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 5: really settled in. And I was talking to one officer 297 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 5: and they said, if you are not open to learning 298 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 5: about this, you're not going to take it to heart. 299 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 5: So we really need only officers who want to do 300 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 5: this kind of thing and that can learn about it 301 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 5: and really internalize it so that they can do a 302 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 5: really good job with it. I mean, we shouldn't have 303 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 5: to rely on officers, but we do. 304 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 6: Right now. 305 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 5: Again, the doctors need to come out. The doctors need 306 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 5: to be talking. They need to be saying this is 307 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 5: not acceptable, this is a neurological disease, this is not 308 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 5: acceptable because they don't listen to parents. I'm telling you, 309 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 5: I help people in our county and you can't believe 310 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 5: how many people they have tried so hard to get 311 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 5: their kid. It's awful to get their kid into care. 312 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 5: And you know when you're a mom or a dad, 313 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 5: but mostly the moms I find and you have taken 314 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 5: your little infant from the very beginning into the doctor 315 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 5: to keep them healthy, with their inoculations, their checkups, et cetera. 316 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 5: And then ride at eighteen, when many start exhibiting the symptoms, 317 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 5: you're told you no longer can do that, you no 318 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 5: longer can help your child. And then you have people 319 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 5: in your county. You call all these people when your 320 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 5: child starts getting sick, and they say, the best thing 321 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 5: you can do is kick them out of the house, 322 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 5: make them homeless. Perhaps they get picked up by the 323 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 5: cops and then put in jail and maybe they'll get treatment. No, 324 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 5: that's not acceptable. 325 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: I've heard that scenario so many times. Put your child 326 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: in the system. That goes against everything that we've ever 327 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: been told, and that was keep your child out of 328 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: the system exactly. So how do we fix that broken 329 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: trust and create a system that actually supports families instead 330 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: of overwhelming them. 331 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 9: I think a lot of it goes back to that education. 332 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 9: This morning, I was at a collaborative meeting with CIT 333 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 9: offices and so there were organizations there. NSSC got a 334 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 9: seat at the table, and all of the officers that 335 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 9: were there they really care. 336 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 4: And they want to make a difference. 337 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 9: And so I think it was you, Linda saying, you know, 338 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 9: we have to get to the offices that want to 339 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 9: be a part of this right and you know those 340 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 9: are the ones that should be on the CIT teams. 341 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 9: And it really it was encouraging for me to be 342 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 9: in that room and see so many people that did gear, 343 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 9: so I think it. And we brought oy broch Shaws, 344 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 9: had them spread out all on the table and they 345 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 9: were taking them. So it really is, you know, that 346 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 9: educational piece. And we've had one CIT officer he took 347 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 9: one of our brough Shaws at a community event we 348 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 9: hosted a couple of months ago, and he put it 349 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 9: on LinkedIn saying, this is the best thing that I've 350 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 9: ever seen, most so. 351 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 3: In the spirit of education. Education, education, And now I 352 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: wonder just wondering should we plant the seed in high school. 353 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: I think education in any form definitely helps. The only 354 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: thing I've been told about gizophrenia and INIX signosia is 355 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: that it happens over a period of time, and when 356 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: you're in that family dynamic, it's just a daily routine 357 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: and you don't really see it coming on until boom, 358 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: it's there. 359 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 3: I remember that was remember that with my sister or 360 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: our family normalized he oddities. Yeah, it's just the way 361 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 3: she was and eventually things fell apart. 362 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, our school counseling staff and our teachers at our 363 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 6: high school should have known. The signs were easily recognizable. 364 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 6: They work with children of that age, they work with 365 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 6: teenagers there were so many clear signs of illness. Not 366 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 6: one person who should have recognized it had been trained 367 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 6: and could even tell us what was going on. Right 368 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 6: I don't work with adolescents. I only have my one. 369 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 6: There was no training whatsoever for any of this high 370 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 6: school staff on psychosis and recognizing it and any of that. 371 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 6: You know, they're trained to offer students to come on 372 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 6: in and if you're you know, tell us if you're 373 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 6: stressed out. There's no psychosis education happening effectively in high 374 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 6: schools right now. The other thing that I just wanted 375 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 6: to say on the last conversation was where is the 376 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 6: APA outrage? Why are mothers in T shirts taking PTO, 377 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 6: traveling our life and livelihood to sit for hours testifying 378 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 6: on bills. I've been writing legislation, I've been meeting with stakeholders, 379 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 6: I've been meeting with lawmakers. Where is the APA outrage? 380 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 6: Why aren't they fighting for state hospital beds? Why aren't 381 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 6: they fighting the IMD exclusion? Why aren't they fighting for HIPPA? 382 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 6: Why aren't they helping draft laws and meeting with stakeholders 383 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 6: and showing up and testifying. We've had a couple doctors 384 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 6: come way in on certain bills that had to do 385 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 6: with pretty much irrelevant things. But when it comes to 386 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 6: like treatment, where is the APA? If I was a 387 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 6: cardiologist and all of my patients were having bypass surgeries 388 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 6: and then being released to nothing without appropriate rehab and 389 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 6: dying in streets and my work wasn't effective, I would 390 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 6: be outraged. I would be fighting for Medicaid dollars. I 391 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 6: would be fighting for rehabilitation programs. I'd be fighting. I mean, 392 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 6: if my people couldn't even get a house, where is 393 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 6: the APA? Outrage? Someone please tell me. 394 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 8: I was gonna say, if people don't know APA stands 395 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 8: for the American Psychiatric Association, I absolutely agree. And the 396 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 8: point you are making about the teachers not knowing Rachel 397 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 8: I had maybe five meetings per year with my son's 398 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 8: IEP teams, and every year it was the same story. 399 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 8: They just said it was ADHD. They kept saying, you know, 400 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 8: he asked to have more AADHD medicine in order to 401 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 8: be handled. But now I know more that the signs 402 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 8: he was showing were precursors or to the psychotic illness, 403 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 8: and they just didn't see it because everything got put 404 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 8: into that category of ADHD. So I think schools do 405 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 8: need more training. I mean high school might be too late. 406 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 8: I think we need the middle school aged kids to 407 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 8: be talked with because in high school they know it all. 408 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: I can't remember who said it, but it seems like 409 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: everything now is coming down to the dollars spent. So 410 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: how do we get it across to them that spending 411 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: a little money could actually be saving a person's life. 412 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: So if we could get them thinking that, yes, we're 413 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: spending money, but in the end we're actually saving money 414 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: as well, how do we bridge that gap? 415 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 7: So again, just a couple things that I'm going to 416 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 7: compare again with autism. Most elementary schools they know when 417 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 7: something's going on with a kid that has autism. I 418 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 7: mean they recognize that, they're educated on it. They clearly 419 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 7: know what autism is. Now the middle and high schools, 420 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 7: you know, they do need to be They need to 421 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 7: be trained on what this looks like. I don't know 422 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 7: if it's nurse or counselors or to teach the parents. 423 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 7: But also the research. Until we start looking at it 424 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 7: before the crisis hits and see what the early signs are. 425 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 7: Until we start studying that scientifically, we're never going to 426 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 7: catch it like we do with autism. We're never going 427 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 7: to catch it early. And the interesting thing is with autism, 428 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 7: autism is going to play out no matter how it's 429 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 7: going to play out, especially for the severely autistic. Now, 430 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 7: if you're not as severe, you're going to have a 431 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 7: chance for complete recovery. It'sophrenia can have complete recovery if 432 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 7: we just find it in almost everybody. 433 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: We've had a great discussion today. I really appreciate every 434 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: one of you taking the time to give your input. 435 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: As we wrap this up, I'd really like to hear 436 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: from each of you on what's the one thing you 437 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: want listeners to walk away with from this conversation. 438 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 8: I wanted to give marching orders to listeners. There's a 439 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 8: bill in Congress Hr. Four zero two two that will 440 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 8: end the IMG exclusion and as a plus, would also 441 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 8: add that state need to be more robust with their 442 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 8: it's just an outpatient treatment. So this bill is being 443 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 8: voted on now. If you write to your congressman, you 444 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 8: can maybe affect change that would have lasting results. 445 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: Education start early, influence a generation to maybe care more 446 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 3: and understand what's going on. Some of them will have 447 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 3: an interest because they'll know that they'll have some experience 448 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: with people who are falling apart at their age. 449 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 5: I so agree with doctor Hagar because again in college, 450 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 5: I have gone back to my undergraduate college and urged 451 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 5: them to make sure that everybody, freshmen on in, professors, 452 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 5: the clinics have education about these illnesses. I think young 453 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 5: people are so much more open because so many of 454 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 5: their classmates are on medication. You know, they diagnosed a 455 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 5: lot of things early, not specifically schizophrenia. And I do 456 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 5: want to end on this note. With schizophrenia. I want 457 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 5: to say it is a very scary word and it's 458 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 5: not the right word to describe the illness. In Japan, 459 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 5: they renamed it integration disorder and so many more people 460 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 5: came in for treatment. Schizophrenia means split mind. I believe 461 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 5: it comes from Greek. This is not a split mind, 462 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 5: this is an integration whatever you want to call it. 463 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 6: I know there is a. 464 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 5: Big cadre of psychiatrists who are trying to get it 465 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 5: renamed because it isn't correct. So here we're talking about 466 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 5: these illnesses, they have the wrong nomenclature. And I think 467 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 5: that describing these illnesses in the correct way will mean 468 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 5: all the difference between if people can accept what you're 469 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 5: saying to them and listen and then reevaluate their ideas 470 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 5: about what these illnesses are and that they're treatable. 471 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 6: I think we need significant healthcare workforce development, and it 472 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 6: needs to happen in medical schools, in nursing schools, even 473 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 6: in you know, pre med and nursing programs are workfare 474 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 6: force does not understand serious mental illnesses. Our psychiatrists are 475 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 6: not trained appropriately. We have, especially in community mental health, 476 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 6: where new graduates of nursing or medical school are placed 477 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 6: with the sickest patients in community treatment and really don't 478 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 6: know how to manage psychosis, ran asygnosia. It's really an 479 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 6: incompetent workforce right now, and we need to develop that 480 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 6: whole system from the ground up and get more state hospitals, 481 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 6: more academic programs, more skilled psychiatry residency programs, and all 482 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 6: of it. 483 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 7: In memory of my son Joshua, I think I would 484 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 7: like to choose that psychosis needs to be treated as 485 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 7: the medical emergency, that it is more like a heart 486 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 7: attack or a suicide attempt, and we need to treat 487 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 7: that illness and it needs to be considered a crisis. 488 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 9: Well, Crystal kind of said what I was going to say. 489 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 9: So I was going to say that we need policy 490 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 9: is that are going to change from a standard and 491 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 9: neglect to a standard of food care and also to 492 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 9: treat psychosist as a medical emergency. 493 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: It is well, I'm on the civil justice side, and 494 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: so I would urge policy makers across the country to 495 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: adopt the four principles adopted by the National Judicial Task 496 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: Force back in twenty twenty two. That begins the first, 497 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 2: having earlier intervention before someone is in crisis, before someone 498 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 2: needs hospitalization. Second, all patient treatment should be the default 499 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: remedy in mental health proceedings. Third, there should be procedural 500 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 2: reforms to simplify the process for going forward. I mean, 501 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: for example, a psychiatric nurse practitioner with experiences in psychiatry, 502 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: I'll be able to testify and probate proceedings. And then finally, 503 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: this might be the hardest one, is having a pathway 504 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: for emergency psychiatric assessment and intervention. As part of a 505 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: group that to look at this, and basically, someone could 506 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: be certified to require care and then for seven days 507 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 2: they could provide I care over objection, and after seven 508 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 2: days if it's still a problem, then you would petition, 509 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 2: but help with those four pillars, we could intervene earlier 510 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: and do a lot better job. 511 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 4: All good points. 512 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: I really appreciate all of you taking the time to 513 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: do this. What we covered here wasn't just a conversation, 514 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: It was something real, something meaningful. I truly believe that 515 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: anyone listening is going to come away with a whole 516 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: new level of understanding because of what you brought to 517 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: the conversation. 518 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 5: Thanks Tony, thank you so much. 519 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 8: Thank you, Tony. 520 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 6: My pleasure, Thank you, Tony, and good work. 521 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 8: Thank you, Tony. 522 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 3: Appreciate your time. 523 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 4: Thank you for having us. 524 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: We appreciate your work. Tony. 525 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: Oh it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. A big thank 526 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: you to our guest for sharing their journey. If today's 527 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: conversation helped you see the world a little differently, then 528 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: we're doing exactly what we hope to do. Until next time, 529 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself 530 00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: why not me? 531 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 4: Thanks for taking. 532 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: Time out of your busy schedule to listen to our 533 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as 534 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone 535 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: who has a story to share, tell them to contact 536 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: us at whynomt World. One last thing, spread the word 537 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: about why not Me, Our conversations, our inspiring guests that 538 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: show you are not alone in this world.