1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: I never told you a protection of I Heart Radio's 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: house Stuff word. You know what time it is? It's 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: that time? What time? It's time for another female first Yes, 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: which means we are joined once again by our good 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: friend and colleague ease. Welcome Ea, Hello there, and we 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: don't get to see often because she's so busy, aren't 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: we all? It's true, it is true, and I have 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: some terrible news. I did not bring the cheesecake or champagne. 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: I have you know what it's okay, Honestly, I've been 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: eating a lot of ice cream lately, and I think 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: piling on cheesecake on top of that, it's like it's risky. 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: It's risky, risky, proper, really ruining the weekend. Now, no 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: heart feelings? Okay, Okay, the next time, Yes, let's add 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: to the list. So in this cheesecake and champagne, and 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: then what else should we add every time we add? Yeah, 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: until we actually finally do it. Yeah, I think we 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: need like balloons or confetti. Let's see what. I actually 19 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: really love some Mason jars. So if you have any 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: white mouth, like okay, oh, I can help you. Yeah, yeah, 21 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: we're getting really practical here. But say, by the end 22 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: of this, we're gonna have like a table of full 23 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: plight setting. It sounds like we're going all in gift 24 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: giving one on one holiday seasons coming up. So that's true, 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: And we could be our own version of the Finer 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: Things Club from Yeah. People will be like, what are 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: they up to? Or the Wine and Cheese Club from 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Box and Reck. Yes, we can rewind. No, yeah I don't. 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: I'm out in the references. I'm sorry. I feel like 30 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: this happens every time there's one person who just like, right, 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: there's one Yeah, we got the SpongeBob, we got it, 32 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: You've got that. I've never seen the Office our parks 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: and so really yeah, well it's just a fancy club basically. 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: And I would don't watch The Office because it's not dated. 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: Well oh really, yeah, it's hard for um um Tracy, 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: who is a manager. She always said it was so 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: hard for her to watch because it's terrible management. Really 38 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: that was exactly Yeah, an incompetent dude trying to run 39 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: an office. Yep, yep. But the Finer Things Club was 40 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: lovely and we can have our own version. I think 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: we'll have to have a table cough, but we'll we'll 42 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: workshop that outside of this this podcast episode. Um, who 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,559 Speaker 1: did you bring for us today? Eves? Today is whoda 44 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: are we? So? She is a really really important figure 45 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: in feminist and Egyptian history. Um the first. The first 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: is that she was the first president of the Arab 47 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Feminist Union, and she has some other first thrown in 48 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: there as well. But uh, you did a lot of 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: stuff and was like she had her hands in a 50 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: lot of pots when it came to feminism. And yeah, 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: so we're going to talk about her today. There's this 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: idea that Westerners have often assumed that women in the 53 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: Middle East and in North Africa are oppressed by Islam 54 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: and men, and that they have no rights and no autonomy, 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: and that there is this whole rhetoric that women needed 56 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: to be liberated from that kind of practice that continues today. 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of conversations around veils 58 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: and around um, you know, coverings, but there that view 59 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: that women are like universally oppressed and passive about the 60 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: practices that they were subjected to and that they haven't 61 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: advocated or organized for themselves is just not accurate. It's 62 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: rooted in stereotyping, it's rooted in imperialism, is rooted in 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: saviorism and misconceptions and like all of those things. And 64 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: obviously she she was born in eighteen seventy nine, so 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: things are a lot were a lot different than than 66 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: they are today. Things are not we're not Western. You know, 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: there's the issue of time, there's the issue of place. 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, like she just did so much. I'm 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: really excited to talk about her today. She did at 70 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: um and I think this is one um we and 71 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: we've talked about this before and kind of our anxiety 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: around first, but this is one where the context and 73 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: time period is so important. Yes, um yeah, And I 74 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: do always love to do that disclaimer of like there's 75 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: a reason that a person it was the first. They're 76 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,559 Speaker 1: situated in a certain time and place, and that means 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: that there are probably people left out of the conversation 78 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: and people who contributed it that aren't that aren't mentioned. 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: But also like had a huge role in what there 80 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: first was, and that first are always an issue of access, 81 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: and like in Hudasha always instance, she was wealthy, um, 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: and a lot of the struggle or a lot of 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: the work that she was doing also happened with it 84 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: middle class and upper class circles, but there were also 85 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: lower class women who were participating in their own you know, 86 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: in their own ways. Right. It's also as always an 87 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: issue of like what gets recorded and what doesn't exactly, Yes, 88 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: that's a big one, it is. But all that disclaimer aside, 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: we do have a lot to talk about, So why 90 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: don't we get started. Let's do it. So, as I said, 91 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: she was born in eighteen seventy nine and her family's 92 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: estate in Egypt, and her father was Sultan of Pasha 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: and he was a wealthy landowner, and he was a 94 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: government official as well, and so she was raised in Cairo, 95 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: and it was common for upper class Egyptian men to 96 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: have a wife, to have secondary wives, to have concubines, 97 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: and that was the household that she was born into. 98 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: So she lived with her mother Ikeball Hannum, and her 99 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: father's wife Hassiba, and her brother and her father's other 100 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: children and servants and enslaved people. And so there is 101 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: Igva Hanum. Her mother was a Circassian refugee, and the 102 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: Circassians are in Northwest Caucasian ethnic group. But some historians 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: have said that she was a concubine of her father, 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: but Huda said in her personal memoirs that her mother 105 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: and her father were married, so there's a little bit 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: of discarpancy over that. Um. So yeah, her father died 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: when she was really young. He died of kidney disease 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: when she was five years old, And as was typical 109 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: for elite girls at the time, she grew up studying 110 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: with tutors at home um, and she was taught Arabic, Persian, 111 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Turkish and French, and she studied music, the Koran, calligraphy, 112 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: poetry and the piano and all the things. Who yeah, um, yeah, 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: it's that's intense, um. But before she was tenned she 114 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: had memorized parts of the Koran, and her memoirs she 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: says that she really loved poetry, and that love increased 116 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: because she got visits from the Tenerant poet Sayeda Kadija 117 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: al Magribia. She visited their house often, and she wrote 118 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: that Sayeda Kadija impressed me because she used to sit 119 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: with the men and discussed literary and cultural matters. Meanwhile, 120 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: I observed how women without learning would tremble with embarrassment 121 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: and fright if called upon to speak a few words 122 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: to a man from behind a screen observing, sayeda. Kadija 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: convinced me that with learning, women could be equals of men, 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: if not surpassed them. My admiration for her continued to grow, 125 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: and I yearned to be like her in spite of 126 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: her ugly face. And that's that's like a turn up 127 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: in a good day day that was unexpected. It was 128 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: so unexcited because I saw this quote in places and 129 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: they always left that part off of the animal memoir 130 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: and I saw that and I was like, whoa, whoa, 131 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: that was strong. It is what it is, it is. Um. 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: We have a lot more to discuss with you listeners, 133 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break rich from our sponsor, 134 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. And that's I mean, 135 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: that's something we've talked about a lot on the show, 136 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: is the importance of like seeing yourself and especially at 137 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: a young age, and thinking, oh, well, then that is 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: an avenue available for me. And that's something also that's 139 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: come up in a lot of these females. First, I'm 140 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: always kind of surprised at their circle, if you will, 141 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: like the cameo famous historical Wow, because it does seem 142 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: to be a pretty big impact or influencer on a 143 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: lot of the women we've talked about. Is these people 144 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: kind of come into their lives and they witnessed like, wow, 145 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: look at that. Yeah, I think that's really cool too 146 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: because a lot of the time, um, like you know, 147 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: that's also a question of access, like who could be around. 148 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you know that there aren't people 149 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: who are super influential and super intelligent and super talented 150 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: that are of you know, the lower class, but you 151 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: know it, it's it's really good to have somebody to 152 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: look to that right, you know, I can say this 153 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: is possible for me having that connection and also open 154 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: doors for you people to hear of you. Yeah, that's 155 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: why people who may not be in that same circle 156 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: because those famous people will be the ones that influence. 157 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: Oh so so is coming up and you should get 158 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: to know them and they've done these things, which is 159 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: awesome if you can have it. Networking is beautiful if 160 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: you can work out it can't be I'm sing you 161 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: guys have had some negative experiences. I'm not great at network, 162 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: but you're better than you think. Yeah, I'll take that anyway, 163 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: came back. She has an amazing influence who was not 164 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: so pretty fantastic. She's well, we don't know that for sure, 165 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: that's her. We're not anything. But it is interesting that 166 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: she had to say that, as if it was something 167 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: that could hold it held her back, right, Yeah, like 168 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: there was a there was a chance that I wasn't 169 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: going to make this happen because she's ugly. Yeah, but 170 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: beyond that, keep going. Her younger brother Umar Sultan got 171 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: more attention than her, and she often voiced her frustrations 172 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: about that, about him being favored because he was a boy, 173 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: and she often voiced her frustrations to Hassiba, her father's 174 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: widow at this point um And she called Hassiba boom cabra, 175 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: which means big mother in Arabic. And though she spent 176 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: time around boys when she was young, like her brother, 177 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: her neighbor, and the sons of family friends, she was 178 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: restricted to the company of women and girls around the 179 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: age of eleven, so women and men were separated, with 180 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: girls and women restricted to a part of the house 181 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: called the harem, and so she had to talk from 182 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: two men from behind the screen. So women in seclusion 183 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: were guarded by eunuchs who were usually cash aided enslaved 184 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: men from Sudan, and as Marianne Faye puts it in 185 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: the book Unveiling, the harem, veiling in seclusion go hand 186 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: in hand as outside the home as veiling mate women 187 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: unapproachable by men and effectively constructed a harem around them 188 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: outside the home. So she was already becoming frustrated with 189 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: tender rolls when she was thirteen years old and her 190 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: family arranged her marriage to her cousin and legal guardian 191 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: Ali sha are We, who was in his late forties. 192 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: She didn't want to marry him, so her mother put 193 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: in the marriage contract that he had to dump his 194 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: concubine who he was with at the time and had 195 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: children with, and live with just sh are We. So 196 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: he broke the contract, and when his concubine got pregnant 197 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: with his child and she she was like, I'm deeping 198 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: and lived away from and for like seven years until 199 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: he was twenty one years old, until she was twenty 200 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: one years old, excuse me. So during that time she 201 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: became close to a woman named Eugenie Lebron, and Lebron 202 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: was a frenchwoman who was married to an Egyptian man 203 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: who had written books on Egyptian social customs. So are we. 204 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: You know, she's starting to meet all these people like 205 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, who influenced her. So ch are 206 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: We went to salons that Lebron hosted at her home 207 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: in the eighteen nineties, and those discussions often turned to 208 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: current events, to education, to social practices, and Lebron exposed 209 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: to are we to even more ideas of Western feminism, 210 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: and Lebron suggested that the veil was a thing that 211 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: was hindering Egyptian women's advancement. So in nineteen hundred, you know, 212 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: years go by and nineteen hundred, share We returned to 213 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: life with her husband and they had two children around 214 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: that time, like within the next five years, they had 215 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: a couple of children. And then she met a French 216 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: woman named Marguerite Clement who was a lecturer and was 217 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: touring the Middle East on a Carnegie endowment, and Clemant 218 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: detailed her public speaking events to show are we, and 219 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: she are we decided to take up that task on 220 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: her own and do her own public lectures for Egyptian women, 221 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: and she began doing these public lectures in Cairo, regularly 222 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: after she did her first one, and they were pretty 223 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: much a hit, like they were, you know, women coming 224 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: out to do this in public. In nineteen no way, 225 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: she helped found the first secular philanthropic organization operated by 226 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: Egyptian women, medical Dispensary for under privileged women and children, 227 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: and it was established through private donations, through fundraising and 228 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: other incomes. So she advocated for women less services and 229 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, social projects because they allowed women to get 230 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: more practical knowledge and challenged notions of women as these 231 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: subservient people, as who were just objects of pleasure. And 232 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: this education is a huge thing in her story. UM 233 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: women women learning through experience and women having access to 234 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: the same education that boys and men had access to. UM. 235 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: That comes up a lot in her story. That's something 236 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: that she was really passionate about, and we'll talk a 237 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: little bit more about that later. So she thought that 238 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: rich folks should give back through donations and other charity, 239 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: but she did kind of have in a way a 240 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: limited dualistic view of the rich as protectors and the 241 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: poor as people who received services and kind of had 242 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: no say in the matter. She created the Intellectual Association 243 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: of Egyptian Women in nineteen fourteen, which worked to improve 244 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: women's intellectual and their social lives. So at this point, 245 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: gender separation was still typical for women of the middle 246 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: and upper classes, but they were starting to abandon those 247 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: seclusion practices and taking teaching jobs, participating in the press, 248 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: and participating in charities and literary societies. So should are 249 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: we criticized the restrictions that were put on elite women 250 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: by seclusion and veiling, and it was dissatisfied with concubinage 251 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: and polygamy, and you know, supported the restriction of polygamy. 252 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: And so the Egyptian Revolution of nineteen nineteen is a 253 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: part of her story. It was a revolution that was 254 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: against Britain's occupation of Egypt and Sudan. And obviously this 255 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: happened a lot with Britain has an imperialist power, revolutions 256 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: against them as the colonial authorities in Egypt is no exception. 257 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: So Assaultanate of Egypt was declared a British protectorate in 258 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, but Egyptians soon began calling for Egyptian complete autonomy. 259 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: So just after the November eleventh, nineteen eighteen Armistice, a 260 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: delegation that was called a waft of Egyptian nationalists made 261 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: a request to the High Commissioner Reginald Wingate to end 262 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: the British protectorate in Egypt in Sudan and get Egyptian 263 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: representation at the next peace conference in Paris, but the 264 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: British government refused to accept that delegation and the WAFF 265 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: it soon turned into a nationalist organization and then later 266 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: into a political party, a nationalist political party, and so 267 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: at the same time there was also a movement, like 268 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: a groundswell movement for Egyptian and Sudanese independence, and women's role, 269 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: of course was huge and integral in that struggle. Don't 270 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: let anybody ever tell you otherwise. Always there. Um Shari 271 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: and her husband became leaders in the Egyptian independence movement, 272 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: and in nineteen nineteen she organized a protest and called 273 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: on other women to take to the streets and protests 274 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: of British role. A lot of that happening with her 275 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: and her husband was a member of the nationalists WAFFE 276 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: party and in nineteen twenty she became the president of 277 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: the waft is Women's Central Committee and she led women's demonstrations. 278 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: She set up petitions and protests against colonial authority. She 279 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: raised funds, and she maintained communications when Waffett members were 280 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: locked up or exiled, and obviously she mobilized women across 281 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: Egypt to join the movement too. And so in nine 282 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: two she had a women's meeting at her house where 283 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: they decided to boycott British goods and take their money 284 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: out of British banks, organizing more organizing for the cause. 285 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: And so Egypt became a constitutional monarchy in nineteen and 286 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: under that designation, it was still under British control. So 287 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: the last troops weren't withdrawn until nineteen fifty seven, so 288 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: much later. But you know, a lot happened between those 289 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: two times, but there was still a lot that had 290 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: to be done in terms of like their autonomy and 291 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: so mal At this point the Waffett Party was like 292 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: more active, and then they had more Egyptians had more 293 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: of a role in politics and legislation and all that stuff. 294 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: And so male nationalists had argued for education for women 295 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: so women could become better homemakers and mothers, especially to 296 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: sons who were going to grow up We've seen this 297 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: happen before, who were going to grow up in participating 298 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: in the economy and participate in government. But they were 299 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: largely dismissive of the idea of women in the workforce. 300 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: And as we'll see later, she argues like intellectualism and 301 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: education is important in creating good mothers and you know 302 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: people who are too able to participate in society essentially, 303 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: and so women's role in the home became integral to 304 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: the nationalist mission of building the state and its power. 305 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: But under Egypt's new constitution, women weren't granted the right 306 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: to vote, and so they felt but by that where 307 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 1: it was something that they were promised and something that 308 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: they had worked so hard for themselves UM because the 309 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: Waffett had agreed to grant them women's suffrage UM social 310 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: Aari and other women were really frustrated with the party 311 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: for its lack of commitment to feminism and how it 312 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: treated women's rights as less important than the independence movement, 313 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: and so she and other women left the Central Committee, 314 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: the Women's Central Committee in in nineteen three. This is 315 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: a big part of her story. She founded the Egyptian 316 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: Feminist Union UM and that was made up of middle 317 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: and upper class women and so it advocated for women's suffrage, 318 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: for women's education, change and personal status laws. It also 319 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: continued to fight for full Egyptian independence and advocated for 320 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: equal political rights for women, more employment opportunities, and like 321 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: other stuff, A lot of stuff, a lot of things. Yeah, 322 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: and then established clinics, schools, scholarships, and literacy programs. And 323 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about what it did. But like in 324 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: the end, it didn't accomplish all of its goals. Um. 325 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: But there were some games that were made during Huda 326 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: Shaw's lifetime. It paved the way for later feminists, and 327 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: so feminist efforts that were once intertwined with the independence 328 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: clause from Britain became more focused on changing Egypsium societal 329 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: norms regarding women. She are we said that if women's 330 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: status continued to be defined by their familiar roles and 331 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: their rights remained limited, then that would limit the progress 332 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: of society, including men's. That would limit the future of civilization. Um. 333 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: And so this is where we get into like her 334 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: philosophy is developing a little bit more. And she emphasized 335 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: the importance of women and girls education as a way 336 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: for them to be critically and intellectually engaged in society 337 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: as a path toward more autonomy. And social improvement and 338 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: being just all in all better moral beings. She advocated 339 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: for public schools for everyone, and that women have access 340 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: to all educational facilities in Egypt, and that women were 341 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: able to pursue the same professions as men, and that 342 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: women should be represented in parliament. And there were a 343 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: lot of conservative people who obviously did not were not 344 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: on board with all of these ideas. This fight for 345 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: women's rights in Egypt was alone and protracted, and the 346 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: thing that happened over a period of many years. So 347 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: she was still, you know, I brought up the moral 348 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: beings thing. Her feminism was still anchored within Islam. So 349 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: she subscribed to the idea of ishto hide or independent 350 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: inquiry and interpreting the Koran as opposed to accepting uncritical 351 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: legal prescriptions of Islam. And this goes back to a 352 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: theory that was uh proposed or developed by men in 353 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: the past that she kind of walked her way into 354 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: that discourse, and so she developed her ideas based on 355 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: that theory. And she claimed that society was denying women 356 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: their Islamic rights since Islam didn't deny women access to education, 357 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: and it was in fact, quote misogyny masquerading as Islam, 358 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: as doctor Rula Quaas, and I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. 359 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: But as doctor Rula Kualas put it once, and that 360 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: that actually relegated with Muslim women to inferior status. She 361 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: recognized that Islam actually valued gender equality and hard work 362 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: and afforded women rights that they weren't granted and practiced 363 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: in society at the time, and so so are we 364 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: in a couple of other Egyptian women went to the 365 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: ninth Congress of the International Women's Suffrage Alliance in Rome 366 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: in May of nine, and so in her speech there 367 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: she argued that Islam granted women equal rights to men 368 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: and that the Kuran had been misinterpreted. And when she 369 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: got back to Egypt, that's when one of the bolic 370 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: moves of her life happened, and she removed her veil 371 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: in public at a Cairo train station, which signaled her 372 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: embrace of her role as a public leader in the 373 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: women's movement in Egypt. Yeah, and so though it's a 374 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: like a symbolic move that's really highlighted in her story 375 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: and has a lot of weight in telling of her story, 376 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: she advocated for a gradual approach to removing the veil. 377 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: And yeah, she didn't spend a ton of time on 378 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: the issue, she obviously did a lot though she definitely 379 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: did Um. She advocated for women working to gain financial 380 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: independence and for a minimum age for marriage, so this 381 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: is where the familial the family law comes in. And 382 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: she also works to limit easy access that man had 383 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: to divorce, and to restrict the practice of polygamy, as 384 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: we said earlier, and to abolish the forcible restitution of 385 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: a wife to her husband, and for divorced women to 386 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: keep their children for a longer period because it was 387 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: limited at the time. So there was a little progress 388 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: in those family laws. In nineteen three, Egypt's parliament raised 389 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: the minimum age of marriage for girls to sixteen, and 390 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: there was a little progress on divorce laws, but it 391 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: was still harder for a woman to get a divorce 392 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: than a man to get a divorce. And in nineteen 393 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: nine they did extend the period of a mother's custody 394 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: over her children, so a little progress happening um. And 395 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: so also in education, primary education specifically for for everybody 396 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: was made compulsory, so for girls and boys. And she 397 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: also helped start the Club of the Women's Union which 398 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: raised funds to support the clinic and dispensary, craft workshops, 399 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: child care facilities, and journals on women's issues. What was 400 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: it when was the law place for the sixteen year old? 401 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: That was nineteen twenty five? No, that was I believe 402 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: ye say, was that before even the US? Yeah, that's 403 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: the thing about a lot of this did happen before us, 404 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: so much more progressive because even still there was still 405 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: a liphole until like the two thousand's. Yeah, for underage 406 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: kids to be married, child brides are child married to me, 407 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: that's damn yeah, go ahead, Yeah, that's I guess a lot. 408 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people like, don't put it, 409 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: put that in context. That's the hard thing about because 410 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: because the myth is so pervasive that like the east 411 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: is more backwards than the west end, and they see 412 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: veils and they're like, this is not our idea of 413 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: feminism and of progress and of right, even though ours 414 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: is still us specifically rooted in religion as well. It's 415 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: so easy to be so hypocritical. And also just like 416 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: we're not educated, Uh, we're often not educated about realities, 417 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: and we have no other basis but the myth. So 418 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, anyway, that's a whole like other conversation. 419 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: Good to note though, that that is something that was 420 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: so much more progressive before the U S, which we 421 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: see as the standard of progression. You're like, no, no, 422 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: look at what's been happening. She also advocated for a 423 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: Palestinian women who lost their homes during the establishment of Israel, 424 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: and she was influenced by the nationalist movement in Palestine 425 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: and began to define nationalism and pan Arab rather than 426 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: Egyptian terms, and was framing feminism within those terms and 427 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: became a little bit more doubtful of Western feminists. She 428 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: was also a leader in the International Alliance for Women's 429 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: Suffrage and advocated for women's political rights and suffrage, even 430 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: though women in Egypt didn't gain the vote until nineteen 431 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: fifty six UM, which is after her death, and so 432 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: as more and more women joined the workforce, the Prince 433 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: of Egypt announced his opposition to women working outside the home, 434 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: and a journal that she established, Legion, She responded and 435 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: she said, this Muslim law clearly acknowledges and advocates the 436 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: equality of the sexes and does not ascribe one domain 437 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: of work to one more than the other. And then 438 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: she went on to say, it is as if your 439 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: highness has forgotten that our religion had given the woman 440 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: the free range and right to dispose of her goods 441 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: in any way she sees fit. She is able to 442 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: sell and secure a mortgage, and to bequeath and to testify. 443 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: And then she went on to say, the great law 444 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: giver has high reverence for the woman, but man refuses 445 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: to admit that and grant her respect, owing to his 446 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: self cinered nous, he wishes to constrain woman and deny 447 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: her any field of action. So the same idea that 448 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: this is not the is not accurate. Right, this is 449 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,239 Speaker 1: not based in any reality of Islam. It's what right 450 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: he was saying. They're like challenging the interpretation of the 451 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: people in power. Oh yeah, that was solid burn. No, no, no, yeah, 452 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: I was agreeing with you. That's what that look was 453 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: like a little bit of shock. What agreement to work 454 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: on my expression? Don't we mine aren't good. We have 455 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: a little bit more for you listeners, but first we 456 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: have one more quick break for work from our sponsor. 457 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into it. 458 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: So she was essentially informing the Arab Feminist Union in 459 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: which promoted gender equality and Arab nationalism, and she played 460 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: a key role in founding it and organizing within it, 461 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: and she became the first president of that organization. And 462 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, she continued her work basically until she died, 463 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: and she died in nineteen forty seven. Two years before 464 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: that she was recognized and when she was given the 465 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: highest decoration in Egypt called the Nichean al Kamal Award, 466 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: that happened in nineteen and yes, so she she died 467 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty seven in Cairo. After that, the name 468 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: of the e FU was changed to the Shari Society 469 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: for the Feminist Renaissance. And even though a lot of 470 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: the things the e F you worked for weren't completely 471 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: gained in her lifetime, there was obviously a lot of 472 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: progress afterward, a lot of people who were inspired by 473 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: the work that she did, and a lot of changes, 474 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, and in terms of the things that her 475 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: philosophy and you know, the things that she advocated for 476 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: h as feminism changes over time as well, you know, 477 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: I know, um, not everything that she fought for or 478 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: the way that she fought is everybody even within the 479 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: Arab community or for Muslims or for feminists is going 480 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: to be the same. But she really laid the groundwork 481 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: for a lot of political activism that was to happen 482 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: in the coming years and to this day. And she 483 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: supported women and women's movements in other countries besides Europe Dan. 484 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: She also shifted mindsets and behaviors and culture at the 485 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: time for women and for others, and shifted power relations 486 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: between men and women. And so you know, as we 487 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: spoke of, she extended a lot of educational and professional 488 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: like what jobs were available to women at the time. 489 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: She extended that a lot during her lifetime. And yeah, 490 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: that's that's her story and her legacy. That's a pretty 491 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: good one. Don't intense large legacy. It's a long, long, 492 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: long list of even its Yeah, I think it's a 493 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: great example of, um One, how feminism does touch on 494 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: so much more than people realize. Sometimes I think like 495 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: it involves everything, um and just all the issues she 496 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: was working on. To me, I feel like that could 497 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: be an entire lifetime just doing that because she was 498 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: working on so many um and even still kind of 499 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: translate to today even when we talk about women in 500 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: job bills, talking about equal pay and equal opportunity still 501 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: like a necessary need everywhere, And she was at the 502 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: beginning in voicing that in what we would have again 503 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: as we established, Oh, this is so backwards compared to 504 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: but it's not. They've been trying to do this. They've 505 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: been trying to fix this. Yeah, and even the idea 506 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: of the fact that a lot of the things that 507 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: we even aspired to our Western ideals of what we 508 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: think needs to be achieved, like a Western ideal of democracy. R. 509 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: This is the only way things can happen for progress 510 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: to be achieved in that necessarily the case. Yeah, Um, 511 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: I love that you bring people from all over because 512 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: I think in our our little US bubble, Um, it's 513 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: easy to forget that there's so much the right, so 514 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: much how young who we are as a country. And yeah, absolutely, 515 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: I forget that all the time. And then wait a minute, 516 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: like in ninety b c. Yeah, what we don't have that? 517 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: What is that I don't even understand that I don't know, 518 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: um yeah, yeah, And I do think it's worth reminding 519 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: ourselves because it can be very exhausting and tiring to 520 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: fight these fights all the time, and it just it 521 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: does take It does take take time while we're still 522 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, that's the thing is. And we recently 523 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: talked about the perception of good news versus bad news, 524 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: and good news can take so much longer that we 525 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: don't see it sometimes time. So it's great that we're 526 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: recognizing these these women who have made changes. Yeah, I 527 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: think it's also very interesting to see their journey of 528 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: enlightenment and like, what is the thing that made them 529 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: fight as hard as they did, and was the thing 530 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: that inspire are the people who inspire them to participate 531 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: in politics, are in activism or in organizing. I think 532 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: that's always a fascinating thing to see because every like 533 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: all these women come at it in such different ways 534 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: and come at it from such different viewpoints. Like, as 535 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: we know, she was wealthy, and it just really highlights 536 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: how vast and how much of a spectrum it is 537 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to the things that people face and 538 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: the similarities in the differences and people struggles. Yeah, I 539 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: love that one of her big points was that she 540 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: saw that her younger brother was getting more respected there. 541 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: I love that this isn't right saying like like she 542 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: loved him, but yeah, she had a few look's like 543 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: it's not your fault, Guy's not your fault, but it's 544 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: still not fair. I love it. I love it so much. Well, 545 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: this was wonderful as always, Eaves, thanks for joining us, 546 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Where can the listeners find you? 547 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: So you can listen to me on any of the 548 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: various podcast listening platforms on the shows This Day in 549 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: History Class or the show I'm Popular. You can look 550 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 1: us up on the Facebook, the Instagram, the Twitter, all 551 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: of the things at You can just find us on 552 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: Unpopular if you look at the Unpopular podcast or the 553 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: same in History Class and that's it. I like a 554 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: good and with a dramatic at least dot dot dot Nope, 555 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Well yeah, certainly go check that out for 556 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: for more stories like this, listeners um and also, if 557 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: you have any suggestions for some good female first you 558 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 1: can send them to us. Our email is Stuff Media, 559 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart Media dot com. You can find 560 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff and I've Never Told You, 561 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: or on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast. Thanks to our 562 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: guest Eves, thanks to our super producer Andrew Howard, and 563 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told you 564 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: his protection of i heeart Radios How stuff Works. For 565 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: more podcast from i Heeart Radio is to be a 566 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: heart radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 567 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.