WEBVTT - Brokeback Mountain with Matthew Tinkcom 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.560 On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.960 and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.400 or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn bast 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.920 start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.680 Jamie, I wish I could quit. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.560 You, Caitlyn, I wish I could. It's the only way. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.320 It feels like. I wish I could quit this podcast. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.840 But that's not even true. That's not even true. I'm 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:28.560 thrilled to say I like my job. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:29.920 You know, I love it. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.040 I don't wish I could quit this podcast or you. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.080 That's what I meant to say. The other the alternative 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.839 was Jamie Twist Jamie Nasty. 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.840 Ooh, that is what a beautiful turn of phrase. Every 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.400 time I hear it, it really gets me. It hits 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.560 Welcome to the Bachdel Cast. My name is Jamie Nasty. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.440 My name is Caitlyn Nasty. Yeah, doesn't quite roll off 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.560 the tongue as much. But this is our show where 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.120 we examined movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.160 Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. Now, Jamie, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:11.080 what on earth is that? 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.400 Well? It will be an interesting discussion. Today, we use 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.240 the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.320 It was originally created by friend of the show guest 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:26.160 of the show, queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, who originally wrote 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.039 or sort of invented the Bechdel Test sometimes called the 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.399 Bechdel Wallace Test in her comics collection Likes to Watch 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.720 Out For in the eighties nineteen eighty five, and was 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.319 written in the context of we've talked about this recently 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.240 how there were so few first not just women in 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.920 movies that spoke to each other, but specifically queer women 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.600 who spoke to each other. And the joke of the 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.000 strip was that the characters would have to ship characters 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.760 together because there were so infrequently canonical lesbian couples on screen. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.920 There's now many versions of it. It has sort of 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.920 been adapted to a more mainstream, offied version of that. 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.000 The version of the test that we use requires that 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.639 two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.720 each other about something other than a man for more 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.000 than two lines of dialogue. But again, this is a 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.640 jumping off point for discussion. Not every movie is going 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.560 to pass it, and it really is a case to 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.120 case basis if. 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.679 Broke Back Mountain doesn't pass the Bechdel test, which who 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.200 can say, We'll find out later. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.799 So I mean it reminds me of so much, Caitlin. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:37.560 I was wondering if you were thinking about this as well, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.960 or a couple of years ago, I think some bad 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:44.480 faith actors weaponized the Bechdel test for Firegast Fire Island, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.280 and I'm like, get a life, get a life. You 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.959 know what you're doing. Anyways, we'll talk about it, but 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.480 but yes, that is what it is. And today we 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.920 are covering at long last a movie that we have 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.480 almost covered so many times, but it was never it 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.440 either didn't win a poll or we didn't have quite 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.600 the right guest and the stars of a line. We 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.880 are covering Broke Back Mountain two thousand and five. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.040 We sure are, and our guest today is a professor 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.239 of Communications in Film at Georgetown University. He's the author 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.040 of books like Working Like a Homosexual, Gray Gardens and 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.799 Queer Theory and Broke Back Mountain Relevant. Hello, it's Matthew Tinkham. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:26.360 Welcome, thank you. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.359 It is really lovely to be here with you talking 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.520 about this film. And I already have a sense of 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.320 whether I may fit with the Bechdel test or not. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.760 But I think it fails. It fails for really great reasons, 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:40.480 which are the more compelling. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.880 Yes, yes, yes, I mean our listeners know this at 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.720 this point. But sometimes I feel like it's like when 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.720 people when people lie to Caitlin and I at parties 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.080 about having listened to the show, They're like, right, it's 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.080 the podcast where you figure out if something is passes 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.120 the Bechdel test and therefore it's good or bad. And 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.800 you're like, get a library card, and it takes us 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.920 to two hours each episode to figure it out. I know, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.200 I was like, what do you think for saying anyways, yes, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.440 if this, I honestly I was so locked in that 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.880 I was not particularly paying attention for the Bechtel test 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.360 in this particular movie. But we'll talk I mean. 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.960 Story of my life, yeah, every episode. But yeah, well 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.239 we'll talk about that a little later. For now, Matthew, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:28.200 tell us about your relationship, your history with Broke Back Mountain. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:33.640 Sure, so, a little bit of backstory, literally, which is 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.320 that the film Broke Back Mountain is based on a 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.040 piece of short fiction by the writer Annie Koole and 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.720 the original really short story It's not even a novella, 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.560 was published in nineteen ninety seven in the New Yorker magazine, and. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.960 I remember just randomly sort of finding and reading it 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.160 and being astonished at what an amazing piece of writing 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.960 it was. And Prole was such an interesting figure. She's 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:07.320 the famous, important, you know, novelist, and her attentions have 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.200 been lots of places, but this seemed a kind of 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:15.200 an anomalous, fascinating project for her to take on, which 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.000 is in kind of really the space of about thirty 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:23.320 pages of writing, he rethinks of the American West and 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:29.320 the American Western in terms of same sex erotics between 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.280 these two figures, these two men, and the still More 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:39.120 and Jack Twist, and the story at the time, and 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.160 all before the film was even sort of you know, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.760 sort of being developed, really sort of grabbed a lot 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.440 of people as at attention, and for a number of reasons, 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.440 one of which is they say, was she was rethinking 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.080 how to write about the West. She's sometimes identified as 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.040 a kind of environmental writer, and then she was aligning 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.719 it with you know, the Western and this kind of 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:09.200 you know, my mythological storytelling, especially in American you know, 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:15.200 popular culture around these kinds of heroic figures, the cowboy 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:20.920 in the Western, which was really interesting inasmuch as a 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.600 as a you know, straight identified cisgender woman. What's going 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.560 on with this project of taking on of all Western 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.280 and doing it in this very careful, very sensitive and 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:40.840 loving way, which is not to dismiss or insult these characters, 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:45.520 these white working class men, and to think about a 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:50.039 world in which some kind of uh sort of romantic 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.400 and sexual and erotic possibilities sort of are thinkable, and 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.440 that what's going on is I think that it's and 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.960 this will get to I think our our our topic, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.039 which is, you know, I think it's a feminist project 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:08.520 kind of coming in sideways towards thinking about masculinity and 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:13.120 working class masculinity. And as we'll talk about in a 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:14.680 moment when we get to the film, I mean their 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.840 adaptations then that happened in the movie, that sort of 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.160 build out from what supplied on the story in the 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.280 Cruel's story. So I remember reading it in ninety seven, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.560 and this was when a sort of a particular body 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.760 of scholarly, philosophical and political work that we now kind 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.400 of call in broader fashion and queer theory was really 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.560 a taking off. And so this was when I was 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.680 writing my very first book, which was working like a 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:52.600 homosexual and thinking about the larger queerness of American popular 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.280 culture than even had been sort of recognized, and that 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.240 people like and I discussed for work at length the 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.960 Queer Brokeback Mountain book. Eve Sedgwick's sort of just amazingly 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:11.800 important scholarship and writing was really becoming influential. So it 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.200 felt as if Andy Prule was kind of doing over 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.560 on the literary fiction side something that you Sedgwick was 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:23.360 working over in kind of the literary and philosophical collary side. 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.440 So that happened. The story was published in nineteen ninety seven, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:32.760 and then in the early two thousands, this rumor started circulating, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.640 which is that there's going to be a film adaptation 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:41.200 of it. And as the details unfolded, it got more 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.760 and more exciting, which was that the kind we needs, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.559 American filmmaker On Lee had signed up and was actually 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.640 really the person who was pushing most most to see 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.880 if this could be made into a film, and a 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.040 little bit of that sort of knowledge about that on 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.400 Lee is one of those directors that never makes the 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.240 same kind of movie twice, so you know, he he 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.199 did this idea of much like you know, Poule, who 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.000 wouldn't be the first person you might identify with the 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.680 Western wants to do this project, and it seems like 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.280 there are all these question marks over you know, why 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.400 and what's his interest. And we'll talk a little bit 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.760 later when we unpacked the film in more detail, but 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.800 so first it was on Lee, and then when the 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.240 cast started to be sort of discussed, the then really 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.480 sort of you know, hot emerging figures of Hate Ledger, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:38.160 John Jake, Kellen Hall, Michelle Williams, and Anne Hathaway for 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.400 the sort of four main leads really said this is 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.600 this is an important film. This is not just some 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.760 kind of niche, little smaller production. And then the kind 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.920 of jewel in the crown was going to be that 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:56.840 the film is being adapted by Diana Ausena and Larry McMurtry, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:02.360 and especially Larry McMurtry so associated with these kind of 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:08.079 colossal pieces of American popular culture about the West and 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.880 the big project being a lonesome cowboy, and that in 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.040 a certain sense everyone was wondering, what is Larry McMurtry doing, 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.680 like basically working on a Western about as it was 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.200 then called the Gay Cowboy Story and what's going to happen? 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.120 And so there was a lot of excitement around the 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.600 possibility of this film being made because the perception was, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.400 and I agree with the perception, there's never been a 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.120 film of this budgeting or stature dealing with a Cauer 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:42.640 erodics in the American corporate film, and that it was 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.880 getting more and more interesting to think about this possibility. 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:48.760 So when the film came out in two thousand and five, 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.520 there was a lot of anticipation, and there was also 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.160 a lot of sense of can this thing even work 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.240 is going to be is going to be weird? Is 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.360 it going to be sanitized? Level of nuance might have 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.480 there's a certain brilliance that was attached to it. Then 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.360 it turned out to be a really interesting work of 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:14.240 art that took seriously its source material and understood the 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.560 stature of what it was trying to do, which was 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.360 to try to kind of assert a kind of different 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.719 narrative of same sex erotics in the face of probably 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.640 the genre that's most difficult and instance that's resistant to 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:33.720 that of the genre being the Western. So I remember 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.360 seeing the film and kind of out of the cinema 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.840 being astonished, and then seeing it several times just sort of, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.880 you know, wanting to really understand what was going on. 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.000 And then because of the film, and the film did, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.120 by the way, extraordinarily well. I mean it was I 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.920 think produced for about fifteen million dollars and it earned 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.880 a global sort of box office I think one hundred 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.680 and eighty million, which just meant this thing was just going, yeah, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:06.800 like you know, it's a word, you know, this is 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.920 this is a success. And what that theme to Harold 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.760 at the moment was the idea that Hollywood was now 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.679 able to take on her sexualities and not be weird 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.120 or squeamish about them. So then just to follow open 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.400 the last chapter, is that when I was asked by 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.640 an editor named Todd McGowan, who's a faculty member at 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.400 the University of Vermont, if I would like to write 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.880 a book in a series he was editing. And the 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.160 idea of his book was very similar to how you 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.480 think about your podcast, which is pick a film and 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.479 then find that as the doorway into a particular intellectual 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.319 topic or area. And so Todd had asked me if 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.160 I wanted to write on queer theory, and to think 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.840 about a particular film that I thought that this would 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.559 work with, and so I gave it a lot of thoughts, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.079 and I'll oh, I ultimately obviously arrived at broke Back 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.920 Mountain as the films to write on. I thought about 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.880 some others, and that included, you know, Todd Haynes's film Carol, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.160 the one car Why film in the mood for love. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.120 But Todd's sort of response was, and now I know 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.880 he was right, not that I disagreed, was he was like, look, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.160 broke Back Mountain, we'll get people excited in a way 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.160 that those other films wonderful as they are, they're they're smaller, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.800 they're they're more niche on kind of perception. Whereas this 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.920 thing he won all these awards and won Best Director 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.520 for ron Lee, won the Baftub for Best Film, and 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.720 that for a reader who wasn't particularly sort of knowing 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.760 how to approach it queer theory, the doorway of this 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.280 film would be then an tindy imitation and entrance into 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.920 thinking about what this body of work of queer theory is. 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.600 So that's how the book came out of then that longer. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:01.360 History, incredible thank you for outlining all of that, A 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.280 rich history, a broke backstory. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:09.880 If you wrote nice, nice, thank you, Thank you so much. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:11.320 Jamie. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:11.719 What about you? 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.240 What's your history with this movie? 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.720 Oh gosh, I will be far less articulate and say, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:22.000 although I had seen this movie once before in college, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.160 I believe is when I first saw it. I didn't see 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.320 it when it came out, But I think it was 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.680 because I was in seventh grade and this was a 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.840 grown up movie, so I was still saying about our 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.240 kids movies. But I do remember I read the short 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.600 story before I saw the movie. I don't remember why. 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.880 I think I just read it because it was at 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.360 the library. It must have just been. I used to 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.280 be all about the front table at the library, and 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.280 so I read a collection, the Collection of Annie Pool 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.720 Stories that this the Propac Mountain appears in, which has 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.280 the word wyoming in the title. Anyways, she's an incredible writer. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.000 The short story is. I reread it last week and 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:11.680 it's still so beautiful. It is like so overwhelming and inspiring. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.840 How much emotion and story and interiority she fits into 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.760 so little space. I have no idea. It's like a 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.600 magic trick, but it's really a really beautiful short story. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.880 And then I saw the movie once and it may 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.120 be so sad that I didn't return to it for 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.320 years because it was making me feel too much. But 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.920 I first sat in a film history class, and this 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.160 would have been in college in the early twenty tens, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:49.320 so still fairly new at that time. And yeah, I'm 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:54.920 very excited to talk about it today. I had another thought, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.320 but it has left to me, so leave it at that. 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.200 I'm very excited to talk more about it. And it 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.920 was really a pleasure to revisit both the Oh. I 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.400 was thinking, if either of you remember this. I looked 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.400 for this story. I remember very strongly it was a 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.200 radio story. Maybe it was this American life story. I'm 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.680 not quite sure, but there was a story I heard 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:19.080 years ago about a superfan of Broke Back Mountain who 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.560 was a gay man who had read it when it 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.280 first came out and then had really like it was 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.600 a whole radio story about his history with the short 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.160 story and then later the film and just like how 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.560 much it had affected him. And I don't know, I 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.320 just if anyone remembers hearing that radio story and it 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.160 is able to find it. For me, I remember that 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.240 story and this particular person's connection to the material almost 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.400 as strongly as I remember the story itself. So just 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:54.280 shouting that possible piece of loss media out as well, Caitlyn, 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:54.880 what about you. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.880 I saw this movie around the time it came out. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.640 I was in college at the time. I don't think 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.040 I saw it in theaters, but it would have probably 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.520 been within a year of it coming out for the 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.199 great Caitlin movie Binge, which I always say was of 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.560 two thousand and five, but it really started in two 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.359 thousand and four and lasted into like two thousand and 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.320 seven eight. So I saw it then and it was like, 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.960 I mean, we'll talk about this movie's cultural legacy, of course, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.760 and then culture's response to it when it came out, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.080 but I just remember, in addition to the film itself, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:40.720 all of the jokes, spoofs, references that were made in 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.040 pop culture for years afterward, and so that was just 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.960 like a part of the zeitgeist at the time. And 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.320 then I rewatched the film and read this short story 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.679 for the first time when I was in grad school 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.920 because I took a film adaptation class and shout out 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.399 to my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University that 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.760 I hate to bring up and never mention, but this 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.879 is one of the films that we studied, one of 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.520 the adaptations that we read the source material for and 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:19.040 then studied the adaptation, and so I got pretty like 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.880 in depth with that from an adaptation standpoint. But then 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.200 I hadn't seen it since then. So it's been a 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.640 number of years since I've watched the film, and I 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.800 was excited to revisit it. I forgot how just wrenching. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:41.360 The final scene is just cry and crying, crying, But yeah, 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.280 I'm excited to discuss it. Yeah, So let's take a 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.800 quick break and then we'll come back for the recap, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.960 and we're back, broke back. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.680 Broke back. Yeah, and if you don't like that joke, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:06.600 buckle in because it's gonna keep happening. 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.840 Yeah, unfortunately. So we'll provide a content warning at the 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:17.600 top here for violence against women and anti queer violence. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.840 We meet Ennis del Mar played by Heath Ledger and 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.960 Jack Twist played by Jake Gyllenholl. They show up in Signal, 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.919 Wyoming looking for work. A sheep rancher named a Geary 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:32.760 played by. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.840 Rand Jump Scare. Truly, I did not remember him completely 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.280 forgot Randy Quaid was in this The Quaid lineage should 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.200 be studied, and. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.040 Not by me and not by us. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.639 Someone should do that, truly. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.359 So he hires these two men to camp on a 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.120 place called broke Back Mountain for the summer to look 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:03.080 after his flock of sheep. Jack and Ennis get acquainted 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.119 with each other. They settle into the daily life of 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.040 tending to the sheep. They're camping, they're eating beans, They're 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.520 dealing with bears and coyotes. Jack has to travel several 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:19.800 miles to the sheep grazing area each day, and after 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.000 a while he says, you know, I spend too much 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:29.600 time commuting. We should both sleep here at the camp together. Wink, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.639 and Enis maybe doesn't get the hint, or maybe he 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.880 simply ignores it, because he says, oh, I don't mind 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.600 switching with you. I'll go off and look after the sheep. 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:41.520 So they kind of switch rolls. 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.000 After more time, Jack gets Ennis to open up a 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:51.320 little bit because he's a very like stoic, quiet reserved man, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.480 and they start becoming friends. And then one night, Enis 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.960 gets too drunk to head back to where the sheep are, 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:01.840 so he has to stay at the campsite, and Jack 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.960 offers to let him sleep in the tent with him, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:10.480 and eventually Ennis agrees, and after a short time, Jack 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:15.520 makes a move. Ennis is taken aback and he pushes 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.440 Jack off at first, but after a few moments the 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.359 tides turn and they start having sex. The next morning, 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:29.520 Jack tries to be like hey boo, but Ennis leaves 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:34.080 in a hurry. It's awkward. A bit later, they both 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.920 deny being queer, and so we're not sure if anything 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.840 is going to happen again because Enis makes a reference 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:42.520 to this being sort of like a one off thing. 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.040 But then one day Ennis goes into Jack's tent and 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:52.960 they start kissing and snuggling and it's very tender and intimate. 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:57.680 Then one day the boss man a Geary, sees them 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.840 in the distance. They're kind of like rough housing with 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.480 their shirts off, and he gets the sense of what 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:05.720 is going on between them, and then a short time 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.119 later he tells Jack and Ennis to bring the sheep 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.959 back down from the mountain a month earlier than they 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:16.560 were expecting. Basically, he's like firing them, but before they go, 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.879 Ennis and Jack start sort of like playfully rough housing again, 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.040 but then it gets too rough. Perhaps they resent having 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.480 to leave each other, and Ennis ends up with a 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:34.760 bloody nose and he bleeds on Jack's shirt and will 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.360 put it and maybe his own shirt. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:36.840 Is like it. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:41.359 There's such a this I forgot what a like master 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:46.160 class on like masculinity. This movie is. 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:52.640 Repression, yes, yeah, yeah, And also Chekhov's shirts will put 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.320 a pin in those. He is always talking about that. 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.520 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So things get physical. They're punching 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:05.639 each other. The repression is palpable. They're about to part ways, 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.879 and it seems like they'll never see each other again. 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:13.320 After Jack leaves, Ennis has a panic attack or you know, 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.879 he's vomiting or dry heaving. Clearly he's in emotional turmoil. 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.199 We cut to enis getting married to Alma Alma a 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.160 character played by Michelle Williams, and then a few years 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.480 pass they've had a couple daughters. 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.000 I always love that they have Almah junior. You dont's 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.359 see that very often? More shout out. 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:38.480 More junior girls. 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:39.960 Yeah, I liked that. 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:46.440 Then meanwhile Jack goes back to Ageary asking for work. 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:51.040 Ageary says no, the subtext being like, I'm not hiring 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:55.040 you again because I'm homophobic. So then Jack goes to 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:59.200 Texas to try to get some rodeo work, and there 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.600 he meets a woman named Loreen played by Anne Hathaway. 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.840 Who I learned auditioned for this movie while on break 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:10.879 from Princess Diaries Too, which I just find delightful. She 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:14.960 came in a ball gown and yeah, it's like, wow, 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.080 what a what a story? Yeah, Princess Diaries Too, I'll 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:25.200 say it not the cinematic masterpiece that brother bag Matton is, right, Yeah, Okay. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:29.120 So Jack and Loreene get married. Cut to they've had 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.000 a baby. So a few years have passed, and in 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.720 that time, Ennis and Alma are doing their best to 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.600 raise their little girls. They're trying to make ends meet. 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.320 But and we'll talk about class as it relates to 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:44.840 this movie, and generally they're struggling and it seems like 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.440 their marriage isn't that great. Then, out of the blue, 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.119 one day, Ennis gets a postcard from Jack inviting him 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:56.919 to get together with Jack and hang out, and Ennis 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.320