WEBVTT - BATs and HIIDEs 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.840 John Henry Brown fought his ass off. He had used 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.800 everything he had through it before he entered the plee. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.160 John Meyer is the attorney that currently represents staff Sergeant 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.760 Robert Bales. Mar makes it clear that he respects the 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.680 lawyer who preceded him and. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.279 John Henry Brown. I think to his credit, he hung 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.759 up his cleats, if you will, when a death penalty 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.560 came off the table. I believe in his soul and 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.120 his country said, hey, I saved the guy's life. It's 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.360 undoubted that he shot and killed these people. We're seeking 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.200 a death penalty. We saved his life. John Henry Brown 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.000 also did something that to me is the hallmark of 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.560 a probe. He says, listen, fellas, my apologies. I'm embarrassed. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.880 The two things, the two points that could have exonerated 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.000 or changed the whole thing in this case, I missed him. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:52.360 If you need to throw me under the bus and 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.120 blame me, do it. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.959 Previously, the war within. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.600 A case like Bales was a criminal investigation from the 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:05.280 very beginning. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.280 They're gonna give me the capital punishment. I thought I 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:09.679 was doing the right thing. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.199 It's pretty clear what happened in Bales is behind bars 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:13.840 where he should be. 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:15.319 This is vesp ballimpy. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.560 It's a big fuck you to the Taliban. This is 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:18.280 their home. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.280 When I got out there, even the prosecution attests to 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.360 I'm asking for the Kailid. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.160 The u cmchange. They're gonna protect the army and at 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.720 the end of the day, see the army used a client. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:29.840 I'm punished. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.520 I know what I'm missing, my kids here without their father. 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:45.039 This is the war within the Robert Bayles story. In 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.360 June of twenty thirteen, Robert Bales played guilty to the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:53.040 unauthorized murder of sixteen Afghan civilians. His fate was the 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.559 result of a deal made with lead prosecutor Jaye Morse. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.880 When they came to us and said, what's it gonna 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.280 take to get death penalty off the table? To me, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.040 it was well, that was my plan. We had been 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.520 doing things correctly. We presented a strong case, We had 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:09.119 the evidence. 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:14.240 How did you feel when he pled guilty? Like you 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.799 go through this case, You've been on it for a 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.320 year and a half. What were your personal feelings when 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:21.160 that plea came in. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.799 I knew this is the most important thing I will 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:25.480 ever do in my professional life. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.160 On the side of the defense attorney John Henry Brown 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.160 hoped that a guilty plea would give his client a 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.040 chance at the best possible sentence. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.600 We felt it was a long shot that we would 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.600 get life with parole. Of course, being the eternal optimist, 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.800 thought the least they should do for Bobby was to 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:43.960 give him life with parole. 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.360 Two months later, on August twenty third, Bales would be 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.280 given life in Fort Leavenworth's military prison, no parole. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.200 Brown was with him when it happened. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:02.359 It took him a long while to grasp the reality 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:07.880 of what a horrific situation he was really in. I 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.080 think he was a traditional soldier in the way that 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:16.000 he felt that the superiors would back him and not 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:20.200 turn against him. Of course, that's not excusing what he did. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:22.400 There's no excuse. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.440 During the sentencing hearing, Morse did what he could to 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.640 close the door on any potential sympathy for the defendant. 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.480 I knew that he was going to ask for mercy, 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.840 He's going to ask for leniencine. But I was also 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.640 sure that he was going to ask the panel to 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.640 think about his kids. He had two kids, and I 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.360 just thought that this goes back to this whole idea 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.720 of trying to personalize the victims. I mean, I want 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.520 the jury to have sympathy for Bail's kids like his 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.280 Bail's kids and his wife are victims in this case too. 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.640 I just thought there's a lot of kids here that 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.040 also aren't present in the courtroom, that are in Afghanistan. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.400 And so I said, when you're thinking about Bail's two kids, 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.200 I also want you to think about the forty two 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:13.280 kids in Afghanistan who are either killed, injured, or lost 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:19.000 the primary caregiver. And when the judge read the verdict, 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:21.960 I could hear them crying, like I turn them look back. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.600 I mean, these are these guys are not only asking 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.599 their Pashtune males like you don't cry, and these guys 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.480 are crying. There wasn't joy, but there was relief. Again 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.720 like I have never been around. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.919 Moors perceived the Afghans response to the sentencing is positive, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.719 but hearing from Haji Mohammad Naim, one of the Pashtuon 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.000 males in the gallery that day, it was clear that 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:48.200 their feelings were mixed. 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.360 When the decision was issued and the criminal is sentenced 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:01.039 to life imprisonment, the criminal's family started out and crying. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.520 I asked the interpreter, why are they screaming and crying? 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.080 He said, Bales was found guilty and sentenced to life 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.440 in prison. That's why they cried. I said that this 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.400 person took away our family members, away from us forever, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.880 and now that he has been sentenced to life imprisonment. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:23.720 They are crying. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.360 They can go and see him every day. This person 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.800 made sixteen of US martyrs. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.960 Haji Mohammed Wazir agrees with his fellow Afghan. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.960 In the presence of the international media, I said that 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:42.760 I want the. 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.600 Execution of Robert Bales. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.720 I said that we do not accept this sentence. We 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.039 want a trial in our own country that takes place 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.360 under the shadow of our Islamic law. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.599 Before bail shipped off to Fort Leavenworth Military Prison, John 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.560 Henry Brown had one final meeting with his client. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:05.720 That was a. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.360 Cheerful session I had with Bobbie after everybody else left. Yeah, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.239 he's wearing his dress uniform and those of the uniforms 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.800 are really nice actually, and I need change into his 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:17.279 prisoner out there. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.720 But he was emotional. 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.120 You know, how can this happen to me? 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.600 It was just a bad day. That was one of 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.640 those things where you know he didn't really have time. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.440 You know, we talked about it before, where you don't 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.200 really have time to think about it at the time 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:41.160 that things are happening. It's afterwards that those kind of 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.320 ring a little bit deeper, a little bit worse. 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.680 Since he received a life sentence in twenty thirteen, staff 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.520 Sergeant Robert Bales has spent just about every waking in 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.520 a prison cell. According to his wife Carrie, Bob manages 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:06.559 to keep himself busy. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.840 He did get his bachelor's degree and he's working on 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.400 his master's degree in organizational psychology. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:15.320 I think is what it is. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.280 He's very, very into being physically fit. He does cross 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.760 fit and works out and eats properly and does all 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.200 of that. He's a routine for him and it helps 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.840 him mentally and physically. Never in gold moment. He's always busy. 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.560 He's always doing something. He's always thinking of, you know, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.920 what's next, how can he help the kids? 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:38.640 How can he help me? 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.640 But I think he has a lot of tough day. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.600 I think, well, I'd like to say, you know, it's 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.680 me and the cans that keep him going, but I don't. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:54.680 That only goes so far, Carrie has done everything in 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.160 her power to maintain some sense of normalcy within the 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:03.160 Bales family unit. That includes moving her family from Washington 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.000 to Kansas so that her children, Quincy and Bobby Junior, 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:08.840 can live close to their father. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.280 The first job I applied for I got and they helped. 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.360 They pay for us to move out here, and we've 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:15.920 just sort of. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.800 Thrived and we love being near Bob. 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.080 It just feels like it's the right place to be 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:21.320 and we never. 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:22.200 Have to deal with that. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:23.360 Oh my gosh, we only. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:24.000 Have one more visit. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.640 You know, when are we going to see Daddy again? 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.600 My poor sister always wonders, when are you moving back? 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.880 I'm not, I'm not. We're here. 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:32.520 This is it. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:33.559 Family is where you. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:34.240 Make it right. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.120 The kids, Quincy and. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.480 Bobby were three years apart. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.640 You think that they are maturing now that We've always 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.479 been upfront with them about Look. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:45.640 What questions do you have? 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.160 And we were very thoughtful about how we presented why 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:49.960 is daddy here? 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:50.840 What happened? 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.640 That's something though, that I appreciate, is that my mom 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.800 never took me away from my dad and he's always 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:57.880 been involved in my life. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.840 Bob and Carrey's teenage daughter Quincy spoke to our producers 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.400 about how she and her family managed this atypical arrangement. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.560 We don't look like a normal family, so people looking in, 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.200 but we have the same I think dynamic as a 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.480 normal family. The co parenting, I think is just different. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.920 It's unconventional in the way you look at it. But 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.240 they're still like parents. Of course, my dad can't be 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.120 involved physically, like he's not at home and I don't 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.240 wake up seeing him every morning, and I don't come 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.800 home from school seeing him every single day. But we 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.320 can talk on the phone and we do every single day. 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:43.320 We talk about everything. The big thing that both my 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.360 parents betray is they're always very, very positive. Of course, 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.280 our situation leaves room for being negative. But he's always 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.679 taught that just because you have it bad, it doesn't 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.440 mean somebody else doesn't have it worse, and so you 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.760 always have to look up and keep pushing. And my dad, 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.720 I family always comes first and is always one of 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.680 his top pillars in life. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.840 Maintaining your presence in his family's lives is at the 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.240 top of Bail's agenda in the day to day, but 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.520 he's also working on his long term plans, namely appealing 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.440 his sentence and someday earning the chance to go home 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.400 to his wife and kids. It's an unlikely goal, but 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.479 Baals has nothing but time to work out a strategy. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.080 Whatever we can do to make as much stink, to 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.439 make as much notification. 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.800 As this, we need to do it. Being quiet doesn't work. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.000 Being quiet get you a thirty five year prison sentence 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:45.640 and by the time I get out of here, my 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:46.720 kids are adults. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:48.600 I mean, that's what we're talking about. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.920 Bales has been working with John Mayer on various appeals 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.920 since twenty fifteen. They meet several times a year to 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.400 discuss his case. A former Army officer himself, mar is 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.680 really the go to attorney for convicted war criminals. His 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.320 firm's website is Lawyers Defending Warriors dot com. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.160 Mindful of all that passion, mindful of all the legitimacy 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.120 of everything you just said, Bob, you're going to get 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.440 into sentence I hearing, or they're going to reassess the sentence. 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.320 It can be awfully hard for them. Not that I 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.679 don't want to put pie in the sky, set up 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.800 a balloon that come down a bulling ball, but the 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.120 error is so plain and prejudicial. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.000 We gotta be bold, We got to come out, We 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.120 got to say, you know, how could Bales do this? 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.280 How could he go out and kill women and children? 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.560 How could I not go out and try to stop 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.760 somebody from putting in an ied How many times do 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.480 I go back and sit on my rock and try 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.320 my back porch, drink myself into a stupor, knowing that 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.120 I maybe could have stopped something that didn't happen. How 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.800 many times do we let Americans die when we know 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:52.680 where the bad guys are and we don't go at them. 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.480 You've heard a lot about Robert Bale's mindset during his 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:00.439 deployment to Afghanistan. In fact, Baiale's mental state can be 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.800 attributed directly to his training in the start of the 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.640 Iraq War in two thousand and three. 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.400 Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly. Yet our purpose is 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.839 sure the people of the United States and our friends 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.520 and allies will not live at the mercy of an 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.199 outlaw regime that threatens the peace. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.560 With weapons of mass murder. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.600 Now that conflict has come, the only way to limit 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.560 its duration is to apply decisive force. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.600 In President Bush's official announcement to the world that the 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.760 United States would be invading Iraq. He alludes to what 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:43.240 would become the nation's unofficial strategy, shock and all or 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.000 to use the commander in chiefs language, decisive force to 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:48.840 overwhelm the enemy. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.600 The job of the infantry is very simply. You want 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.440 to find, fix, and finish the enemy. You know, it 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:03.880 hasn't ever changed. I mean the weapons have changed, the 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.400 techniques have somewhat changed, but the idea is you're gonna 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.520 kill the enemy in close combat. 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.120 We kill people for a living. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.240 For the average member of the infantry, this meant that 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.000 they were going to be expected to kill Iraqi soldiers 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.600 on site, something Bails learned during basic training. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.440 I'm not trying to talk negative of the army, but 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.079 this is what the infantry does. For example, the one 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.120 that I always used was from sniper's school. Right, the 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.640 instructor comes in, older guy comes in from day one, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.440 He's like, why do you want to be a sniper, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.240 And so everybody has some answer that people want to hear, right, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.480 like oh, you know, I want to be a force 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.959 multiplier on a battlefield, or you know, I want to 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.199 make sure I save my buddies and he's like, you're 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.240 all a bunch of fucking liars. There's only one reason 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.600 you want to be a sniper, and that's to see 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:55.240 the Red Mist. 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.880 Bail spent his first two deployment in a Rock fighting 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.440 under shock and all guidelines, finding, fixing, and finishing the enemy. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.160 By the time his third tour came around in two 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.120 thousand and nine, the army's mission had changed. The Iraq 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.440 War was drawing on longer than anyone had hoped. Obama 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.760 had taken over for Bush, and the US was pivoting 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.600 its approach to something called counterinsurgency, using the military to 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.600 improve a Rock's infrastructure and empower small communities, winning hearts 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.960 and minds. From Robert Bales's point of view, this was 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.560 a questionable new strategy. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.720 We didn't really even comprehend the difference in the mission until. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.120 We're on the ground. Iraq is now. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.600 Very docile compared to what it was in two thousand 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.640 and six and seven, and so the mission had shifted 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.080 to try. 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.440 To really rebuild this area. 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.920 So we're doing a lot of these micro grant programs 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.360 which you would find business owners. So there's a lady 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.800 that wants to build a dress shop. So you know, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.440 we grant her like thirty five hundred dollars to make 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.560 a dress shop. The problem with this was that we 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.080 knew a lot of this money went back to conducting 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.840 terrorist operations. You know, I think we would all like 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.240 to say that, you know, if we give this food 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.440 to family, that family's going to be fed for thirty days. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.120 But the truth is we just made that family a target. 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:30.600 Bails take about the unintended consequences of counterinsurgency is supported. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:30.960 By Soldier X. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.080 The man from VSB Bellumbine will not be identified here. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.600 At that time, there was a new administration. They're trying 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.160 different tactics on how to engage with the local populations 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.600 and instead of being aggressive and going and solving the 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.880 issue and not menterally, they try to do the whole 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.360 hearts and minds and see if we can essentially buy 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.600 their love. I mean, was it worth trying? 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:54.880 Sure? 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:56.600 Maybe as we're trying, but I think we should have 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.880 maybe recalked and win a different direction. Not Creed Ferdada 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.680 wasn't good. So in those incidents, Veils I think probably 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.640 was pretty frustrated. As a leader. We're trained to be aggressive, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.280 we're trained to do those things the whole you know, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.000 give it out money and give it out hordes of food. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.160 You knows, not our wheelhouse. 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:16.760 As March. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:27.320 Bob Bale's Ford Deployment Afghanistan twenty twelve, it's another counterinsurgency mission. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.040 The soldiers at VSP Bellaby can't proactively confront the enemy, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.600 in large part because the Taliban intentionally blended in with 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:42.440 the civilian population. John Mayer explains, there's. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.520 No uniforms in Afghanistan, so no opponents or no enemy, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.000 or no fighter who's going to be against you is 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.200 going to be wearing his uniform. They blend in with 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.800 the population and it's a guerrilla war. So the challenge 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.120 for American soldiers is the idea, how do you know 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:02.040 who you're talking with? 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.440 By hiding among the locals, the Taliban puts American forces 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.880 at a disadvantage. Unidentified Afghans are supposed to be presumed innocent. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.879 It's a philosophy that requires American troops to be reactive, 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.160 not proactive. 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:20.119 Here's J. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.680 Moore's So generally, if you are in a declared war, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.560 you can use a lethal force against somebody on the 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.680 opposing force. Anytime you can sneak into their barracks room 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.600 and kill them while they sleep. If you see a 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.240 guy in the woods taking a bathroom break and his 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.200 weapons away from him, you can shoot that guy. What 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.920 you can't do is destroy things that are civilian objects 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.080 or cause intentional harm to civilians. If you know that 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:50.920 you're going to cause some sort of civilian harm or 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.600 civilian damage, there has to be some sort of military 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.680 necessity to take out that particular parted. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.639 In twenty twelve, Stab Sergeant Robert Bailee as a combat 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.680 venter who's been conditioned to kill the enemy. Ten years 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.040 into his service in a highly kinetic area, his orders 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.560 are to sit tight and wait to be engaged before 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.320 firing back at the enemy. It's a different approach that 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:15.359 takes them getting used to. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.080 It's the anticipation of death, probably way worse than the 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:20.639 death itself. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:21.080 I don't know. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.000 I haven't died, so I can't really say that. But 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:30.399 you know that waiting for something to happen is terrible, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:30.560 you know. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:30.919 What I mean? 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.240 You know something's coming, in that anticipation of whatever's coming 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:34.800 is what. 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:37.480 Makes you paranoid. 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.640 I guess What's more, Bales feels confident that he knows 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:46.119 the location of undercovered Taliban operatives. Remember one of the 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.200 houses that he targeted that night, belonging to Haji Wazir, 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.320 had just been found to contain over one hundred pounds 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:53.560 of bomb making materials. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.800 The twenty fourth of February, we're conducting a patrol. We 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.200 came upon a command wired ied. The command wired ied 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.880 ended up being one hundred and sixty pounds of explosives. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.240 You know, it was a pretty big deal that command 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:12.879 wired led back to Wazir's holme. Haji Wazir, as you know, 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.639 is the gentleman who came to the United States and 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:20.080 testified against me as prosecution witness number twelve. And he's 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.760 the gentleman with the Taliban fighter tattoo on his right hand. 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.600 These supposed Taliban ties are a big part of Robert 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.560 Bales's efforts to clear his name. In his eyes, if 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.200 the public knew that he actually killed Taliban members on 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.119 the night of March eleventh, twenty twelve, it could have 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:41.040 changed everything. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.800 I feel like I cave during the trial because I 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.160 there was this information that wasn't out there that would 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.560 have changed the idea of me taking a plea deal. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.200 I would have never taken a plea deal. I'll go 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.919 and we'll let the pieces fall where they fall. But 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.160 at least I go in and say, look, these people 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.880 had conducted terry activity from these locations before. I don't 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.840 think you would put people in your house where you 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.160 made your explosives that you were going to go kill 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.400 people with. I wouldn't as a father. I don't think 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.160 most fathers would put their family in a situation like that. Now, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.080 it doesn't excuse what I did, and I'm not trying 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.520 to do that. I'm just saying it would have been 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.720 nice to have had the truth all the way through 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:24.600 on both sides. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.320 To be clear, Afghan women and children are not eligible 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.280 to join the Taliban. But if Bales is right and 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:37.720 he actually did kill Taliban, the paradigm changes. Even Lieutenant 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.160 Colonel Morse can attest that sometimes for the US military, 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.480 the death of civilians can be viewed as unfortunate but 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.720 necessary collateral damage. 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.320 Commanders are facing those decisions every day, and it's sort 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.919 of most visceral format. That might be a drone strike 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.159 on a car with a terrorist leader in it, and 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:58.880 he's also got his wife and two kids in the car. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.719 The commander has decided whether or not he's causing unnecessary 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:04.280 harm by firing. 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:04.600 On that target. 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.800 As Bales carries out his life sentence, he can't help 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.600 and ask whether American drone operators are guilty of the 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.080 same crimes as he is, without suffering the same consequences. 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:15.880 I looked it upon Wikipedia. 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:21.399 The civilian casualties thirty one thousand in Afghanistan up to 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.160 twenty sixteen, according to the US government. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.359 I didn't intend to go. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.760 Out and kill civilians the same way that the people 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.520