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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, which

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Speaker 1: is a podcast that you are listening to. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy. With me today is my guest, the One

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Speaker 1: and Only Snow from Yellow Peril Tactical I Snow. How

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Speaker 1: are you on this totally different day than last time? Hello,

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Speaker 1: I am doing well. Yeah. Yeah, it's sunny, so that's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm having one of those days where like it was

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Speaker 1: like sixty degrees in the mountains and I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so nice. I can go do things outside. And

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Speaker 1: then I'm like it shouldn't be. This is bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: mixed feelings on the on the good weather, I hear. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to our future where our seasons

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Speaker 1: are summer, summer, summer, hell Mouth and those are four seasons.

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Speaker 1: Maybe like an ice storm as a tree every like

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Speaker 1: a few years. Oh yeah, totally like during any of

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Speaker 1: the seasons. Yeah. Yeah, that's exciting. I'm really excited about

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Speaker 1: the future. Sophie is our producer. High Sophie, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I had the exact same conversation with my mom to there.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's so nice. I'll look at

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Speaker 1: this blue sky and then I was like, oh, ship, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's probably not supposed to be that way. This is

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Speaker 1: probably you probably want as much rain as you can

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Speaker 1: get in the winter. Yeah yeah, I was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: not good. I was like, ah hoo hoo. Yeah, but anyways,

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Speaker 1: glad to be here. Yeah. Is our audio engineer and

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Speaker 1: our theme music was written for us by a woman.

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Speaker 1: This is part two of our two part series, which,

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Speaker 1: for those who are doing the math, means it's the

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Speaker 1: second and final part about the Previetnam War resistance French

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Speaker 1: colonialism in Vietnam. And of course we've got two protagonists

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Speaker 1: we've declared cool. There's no von who wrote a memoir

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Speaker 1: called In the Crossfire that a decent chunk of this

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Speaker 1: is based on any anything that feels narrative of I'm

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Speaker 1: probably getting from that memoir. Any other cool person is

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Speaker 1: Vietnamese people who funked up everyone in the world who

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Speaker 1: sucked with them, And don't you forget it? No, I hope,

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Speaker 1: and no one listening this ever forgets it and tries

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Speaker 1: to colonize Vietnam. I don't really want them to colonize anywhere.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening to this, I'm indifferent, Okay, I will

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Speaker 1: come out on the I don't know if it counts

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Speaker 1: this colonization if it's a planet with no living life

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Speaker 1: forms on it. I've got like mixed feelings about Mars colonization,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it could be understood in the

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Speaker 1: same context as colonization of people. That's my um wild

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Speaker 1: cancellable take. Interesting. You look like you don't agree with

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Speaker 1: me here. You know, I just when I hear Mars

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Speaker 1: and colonization of Mars, I think about Octavia Butler's Parable

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Speaker 1: of the Sower and Talents Well, and then that's as

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Speaker 1: far as I get, because then I think about that

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Speaker 1: book and then I stopped listening. I'm sorry. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know that's fair. I'm really excited for Elon Musk to

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Speaker 1: lead an expeditionary um mission to Mars as well as

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Speaker 1: he has led Twitter. I hope he dies, Yeah exactly,

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Speaker 1: I mean no, yeah, and it's on tape. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to see it. Yeah. People try and spread

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Speaker 1: around on what's left of Twitter. That's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know that man is a dead man switch for Twitter, though,

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Speaker 1: you know that if he doesn't, if he doesn't press

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Speaker 1: the button once every hour, all of Twitter goes down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I felt like you might have been dying yesterday based

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Speaker 1: on how poorly the app was working. Yeah. Is it

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Speaker 1: just like connected to his spinal cord you think? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Probably like like pure Cyder tracks exactly. Yeah, fair enough. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I hope it's a two way okay, And um, so

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Speaker 1: where we left off, resistance, the French Indo China was

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Speaker 1: starting to heat up again, and to be honest, never

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Speaker 1: really actually stopped being hot, but it would, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: cycle between hot and very hot. Communists and nationalists and

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Speaker 1: religious groups and bandits and just a whole goddamn ton

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Speaker 1: of people who didn't want to listen to the French

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Speaker 1: are doing some fighting. And we've made it up to

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty. Our hero No Vaughan is about seventeen or

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Speaker 1: eighteen at this time. He's not quite on the main

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Speaker 1: stage yet, but he's starting to be around. For the

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Speaker 1: events that happened in garrison of Vietnamese troops led by

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Speaker 1: the French mutinied as part of a conspiracy by a

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Speaker 1: secret society more than fifteen hundred people, because once again,

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Speaker 1: secret societies are doing all kinds of ship. Unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: leaders of this group were guillotined but many of the

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Speaker 1: rank and file fled the country and they're going to

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Speaker 1: come back later. They're like, they try to do this mutiny,

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Speaker 1: it fails. All their leaders get guillotined because guillotine is

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Speaker 1: not actually a symbol of working class resistance. And I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say that last episode we talked about

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Speaker 1: like the French being like no revolutions like are thing

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Speaker 1: we we and so they're gonna bring guillotines, and Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just okay, I just want to make sure everybody

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Speaker 1: heard that the guillotine fucking hundreds or thousands of Vietnamese

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Speaker 1: colonial subjects who were revolting against them, um during this time,

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Speaker 1: which I think they've only gotten one king, and so

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Speaker 1: I feel like one king to all of these codes. Anyway. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to like the guillotine as a symbol, but

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Speaker 1: I no longer do. Damh. I should maybe get that

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Speaker 1: tattoo removed them. See, I always liked it because I

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Speaker 1: always thought it was the symbol that contained its own critique.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's like being like, hey, sometimes violence and

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Speaker 1: revolutionary situations might be necessary, but we all know it

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Speaker 1: could easily go too far. Because that's what I thought

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Speaker 1: that we all do. The guillotine meant was revolutionary violence

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Speaker 1: going too far, but instead people just completely on ironically

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Speaker 1: liked it. And I'm like, yeah, there are other means

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Speaker 1: that people used to get rid of tyrants that um anyway,

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Speaker 1: So all of these the rank and file who lose

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Speaker 1: uh and flee the country, they show up again later

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Speaker 1: and just continue throwing down. They just like kind of

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Speaker 1: take a break, come back later, and they're fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: Peasants are running around torching official records with kerosene. Poor

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Speaker 1: workers in the city are rioting against the capitulation task

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Speaker 1: tax tax that's the word I can't pronounce this time,

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Speaker 1: and being gunned down for it. And news about all

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Speaker 1: these revolts are spreading around by illegal newspapers. Many of

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Speaker 1: them are basically zenes going hand to hand between workers

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Speaker 1: and peasants. We love a good scene, I know, and

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Speaker 1: between workers and peasants, I like literally mean both directions

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Speaker 1: in a really cool way that we're gonna keep talking

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Speaker 1: about a little bit um. This whole like dichotomy of

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Speaker 1: like the workers versus the peasants. That's like fucking nonsense,

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Speaker 1: And I think the Vietnamese resistance shows it really well.

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Speaker 1: By the end of nineteen thirty is just open revolt

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Prisoners are being set free, cop

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Speaker 1: shops are being ransacked, Whole villages and then regions where

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Speaker 1: the French do not dare step foot. And importantly to

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Speaker 1: our story, when peasants take over an area, they tend

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Speaker 1: to form democratic councils to administer the region. And there's

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Speaker 1: a word for this type of local rule by democratic council.

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Speaker 1: That word is Soviet. Because that's what people forget, is

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Speaker 1: that the word Soviet means fucking local control of a

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Speaker 1: reach anyway or upon It's Soviet, excellent, excellent, which okay,

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Speaker 1: but like instead of like saying like say levies, so

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Speaker 1: be it like okay, anyway, so vit. I want to

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Speaker 1: quote no Von directly here. In September, in the villages

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Speaker 1: of Naen, which had been abandoned by the notables and

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Speaker 1: the local militia. Not is this I'm no longer quoting

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Speaker 1: not and is this whole big fucking province in north

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Speaker 1: central Vietnam, the peasants began organizing themselves into soviets. They

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Speaker 1: took over the administration, and without touching the landed property,

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Speaker 1: proceeded to share out the communal land that had been

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Speaker 1: annexed by the landlords. They confiscated rice reserves and distributed

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Speaker 1: them to the starving, allocated agricultural work, collectively abolished taxes,

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Speaker 1: imposed lower farm rents on the landowners, and launched a

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Speaker 1: literacy campaign. The Soviets extended themselves to the provinces of Ha,

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Speaker 1: tin Con, Low, thak Ha and home San the French

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Speaker 1: no longer quoting. The French responded by just carpet bombing

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Speaker 1: people's because of course they did. Hundreds of people were

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Speaker 1: killed at a time. But this is like literally the

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Speaker 1: coolest thing that I can imagine in any episode I

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Speaker 1: ever do, Like people fucking taking over their areas and

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Speaker 1: running them through democratic councils and like const remaining the

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Speaker 1: land evenly. It just doesn't get better than that, No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. I mean that's what it really should be

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Speaker 1: all about, like all of our work. Yeah, totally. The

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Speaker 1: cities are fighting too. The revolt is less intense in

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Speaker 1: the cities. I think basically there's like less capacity to

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Speaker 1: actually take and hold terrain strikes in marches and the

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Speaker 1: occasional assassination are happening in the cities. The government being

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Speaker 1: French set up the guillotine in front of Saigon's central prison.

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Speaker 1: Over the over a few years of this revolt, there's

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Speaker 1: twelve thousand political arrests with almost a hundred beheadings, and

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Speaker 1: no Von he's seventeen or so at this point, and

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Speaker 1: he's bicycling back to his village with the zines rolled

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Speaker 1: up in the handlebars to distribute among the peasants, which

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Speaker 1: just fucking rules. That's creative. I know, I would never

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Speaker 1: think to look there, and he's reading them to people

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Speaker 1: who can't read. When he gets there soon he's organizing

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Speaker 1: with people at his work. They can't even say words

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Speaker 1: like labor union, so instead they build a mutual aid society,

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Speaker 1: one of these things where everyone like takes care of

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Speaker 1: each other or whatever, and they pull money to take

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Speaker 1: care of each other, and they meet at under the

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Speaker 1: guise of like birthday parties and ship because in order

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Speaker 1: to have the French don't let more than like I

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Speaker 1: can remember if it's seventeen or twenty seven, some low

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Speaker 1: number of people. M Vietnamese people meet in one place

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Speaker 1: at any given time without getting like special permission. That's

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Speaker 1: so funned, because we have such big families yes, kids,

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Speaker 1: one of thirteen. Yeah, like our our family, Like my

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Speaker 1: mom like it's like your fifth cousin. And I'm like

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Speaker 1: what yeah, yeah, all right. Well, and so they can

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Speaker 1: get permission for birthday parties and so they use those.

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Speaker 1: The birthday parties become the labor organizing meetings, and then

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Speaker 1: the coolies, the least paid people at the job, the

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Speaker 1: at his place, they go on strike, and so he

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Speaker 1: goes up and he's like, hey, our our quote unquote

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Speaker 1: mutual aid fund, it is now your strike fund. Ah sick, yeah,

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Speaker 1: do what you want with it. And then he acts

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Speaker 1: as an interpreter for the strikers and they win a

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Speaker 1: modest pay raise. So this is how he gets into

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Speaker 1: labor organizing. Inasmuch as anyone is organizing the huge revolt,

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Speaker 1: there's two major players. Both are Communists. Um, there's the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party, which takes its orders from the common turn

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Speaker 1: the Bolsheviks up in Russia and they're already doing some

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Speaker 1: wacky stuff. They had a revolutionary tribunal. It's like, way

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Speaker 1: before they have any power any territory, they have a

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Speaker 1: revolutionary tribunal for one of their own members and sentenced

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Speaker 1: him to death and kill him because he fell in

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Speaker 1: love with another comrade and that took his mind off

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Speaker 1: his duties. That is at least how it is presented

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Speaker 1: by no Van. The person who ever sees this tribunal

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Speaker 1: is Tom Duke Tongue, who later succeeds Ho Chi Minh

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Speaker 1: and is like this great revolutionary hero or whatever. And

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Speaker 1: one of the other people who was also part of

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Speaker 1: the like murder of this guy, ends up being like

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Speaker 1: second in commando ho chie Men and stuff later down

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Speaker 1: blood in. Yeah. Um, that's the State Communists. Then there's

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Speaker 1: the Communist Opposition, the Communist Left Opposition group uh not

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Speaker 1: a incredibly original name, and they basically are the communist

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Speaker 1: who don't take order from Russia. I like them more

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Speaker 1: so that my bias is going to be towards them,

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Speaker 1: and no Van is with them soon enough, and they're

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Speaker 1: more or less trout skifts. They are Trotskyists, which basically

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Speaker 1: at this point is like a Communist who doesn't like Stalin.

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Speaker 1: Anarchists are there and involved in all this struggle too,

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Speaker 1: but not to the same degree. I believe it's isolated

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Speaker 1: individuals and small groups. I haven't been able to find

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Speaker 1: more information specifically about that yet. So the people who

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Speaker 1: are the major players and a lot of this organizing

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Speaker 1: stuff who are like die hard about one ideology or another.

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Speaker 1: They are not most people. Um, most people are poor

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Speaker 1: workers and peasants who are like, I'm a funk up

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Speaker 1: the French and taking care of each other sounds good,

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Speaker 1: rather than being like specifically ideologically committed. And so you'll

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Speaker 1: see the majority of people who are the actual fighters

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Speaker 1: will shift allegiances back and forth. Um, it's not just

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Speaker 1: like the left opposition, like yeah, these two different communist

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Speaker 1: tendencies like kind of go back and forth a lot.

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Speaker 1: The major players of both parties get arrested and exiled

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Speaker 1: at the end of this whole nine one thing. Um

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Speaker 1: there sentenced to their exile or sense to hard labor

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Speaker 1: or given the old chopity um. By the end of

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, the revolt is crushed for good and

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Speaker 1: France still rules Vietnam to this day. Just just kidding.

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Speaker 1: They're very chumba womba. They get right back up again

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Speaker 1: and they do something particularly cool that imprisoned journalist on

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Speaker 1: nin he's out now and as of ninety one he

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Speaker 1: gets out and he refuses to align himself to one

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Speaker 1: of these communist parties or another. Um later after his death,

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Speaker 1: the Communist Party is like, Oh, his whole thing about

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Speaker 1: refusing to align to parties, it's because he liked us.

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Speaker 1: It was just to get people to join the Communist Party.

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Speaker 1: That's why he refused to it. Yeah, yeah, he um.

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Speaker 1: Not only but he refused to join the parties, the left,

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Speaker 1: opposition or the you know the Trotsky story of the Stalinists,

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Speaker 1: but he was completely down to work with them. And

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Speaker 1: his whole thing was that he kept the two together

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Speaker 1: for years, like long after the rest of the world

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Speaker 1: where the Trotskis and the Stalins are murdering each other,

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Speaker 1: he's holding them together together with the Party, communists, opposition,

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Speaker 1: communists and anarchists. He starts a newspaper called The Struggle.

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Speaker 1: Um it's in French, not Vietnamese. And the reason it's

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Speaker 1: in French is because the French belief in free speech

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Speaker 1: in French. Oh okay, got it. I'm with you. If

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Speaker 1: you live in Psigan at this point, you can have

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Speaker 1: a journal with free speech as long as it's in French.

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Speaker 1: If it's in Vietnamese, it needs to be approved. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So basically every single article and every single issue is like, please,

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Speaker 1: for the love of God, translate this and tell it

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Speaker 1: to people who don't speak French. And for most of

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Speaker 1: the paper's existence it was legally owned by a white man,

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Speaker 1: an anti colonial Frenchman named Edgar Ganowski, who you to

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Speaker 1: citizenship to get help them get away with ship. Privilege

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Speaker 1: doesn't save him in the end, he dies in poverty

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen forties. But he's basically like, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a couple um French colonials who are entirely

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Speaker 1: militantly committed to the um anti colonial struggle. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: they can hang yeah. And this was a particular achievement

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Speaker 1: that it gets the Stalinist and the trotsky Is working

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Speaker 1: together because at this point Stalinists are hunting down and

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Speaker 1: doing the old murder, which is a euphemism for killing

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Speaker 1: um on Trotskyists in Vietnam. There was some piece which

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Speaker 1: really lends credit to the idea that even the party

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Speaker 1: communists there at the end of the day, we're actually

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Speaker 1: looking to free Vietnam more than they were like looking

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Speaker 1: to specifically be like, oh my god, we love the

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Speaker 1: USSR or whatever the fuck. And the paper starts running

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Speaker 1: political candidates it's like this big central leftist organization basically

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Speaker 1: at this point, and it includes a popular front of

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Speaker 1: candidates from both the Communist Party and the Communist Opposition,

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Speaker 1: and they fund all of this by opening a bar.

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Speaker 1: Interesting I like them. No Van starts writing for it,

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Speaker 1: basically information about what's going on in the plantations. I

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Speaker 1: think through his connections in the villages where he's from.

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Speaker 1: The peace between the Communist doesn't last. Yeah, the thing

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Speaker 1: about being beholden to a foreign power is that you're

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Speaker 1: beholden to a foreign power, and this thing happens that

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Speaker 1: normally is kind of good. Elsewhere. On May second, Russia

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Speaker 1: and France make friends the Franco Soviet Mutual Assistance Pack,

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Speaker 1: and from their point of view it makes some sense. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Hitler is starting to get all hit larry

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Speaker 1: in and history shows pretty clearly that it takes Western

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Speaker 1: Europe and Russia working together to stop the Nazis. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. So like, okay, you you get why why

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Speaker 1: the USSR wants to be friends with friends for a moment,

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Speaker 1: but beholden to foreign power. The Communists are no longer

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Speaker 1: allowed to fight the French part on. Yeah, in Vietnam.

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Speaker 1: Orders came from the common turn the high the Communist

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Speaker 1: Party that the Vietnamese Communist Party has to stop trying

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Speaker 1: to become free of France because France is Russia's ally,

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Speaker 1: and the Communist Party is beholden to Russia and can't

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Speaker 1: make their own decisions. That's why tons of the Communist

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Speaker 1: Party go along with this. I think a ton of

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Speaker 1: other people stopped being in the Communist Party because there

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Speaker 1: they were willing to be in the Communist Party as

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Speaker 1: a means to get rid of the French the struggle.

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Speaker 1: That newspaper it doesn't report on any of this because

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Speaker 1: it's trying desperately to keep the peace. But now the

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Speaker 1: Trotskyists are like, Okay, if we don't start doing our

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Speaker 1: own thing, resistance to France is just going to become

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Speaker 1: bourgeois nationalist. It's just going to be you know, the

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Speaker 1: rich people who want to like restore the monarchy or

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Speaker 1: have a bourgeois republic or whatever. Because the state Communis

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Speaker 1: are out of the fight, so uh No, Vaughn and

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Speaker 1: some others decide to act and they formed the League

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Speaker 1: of Internationalist Communists. And their strategy, which I really like,

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Speaker 1: is that workers peasants and industrial like workers. Both peasants

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Speaker 1: and industrial workers should form action committees, elect delegates and

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Speaker 1: create a bottom up communist revolution. Okay, I got no notes, Um,

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Speaker 1: sign me up. Yeah uh. He still had to keep

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Speaker 1: his day job and him at night. He and his

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Speaker 1: friends start building a printing press that of salvaged parts

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Speaker 1: and starting an illegal Vietnamese language newspaper called Permanent Revolution,

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Speaker 1: which supported revolt and condemned Russia's open support for French imperialism.

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Speaker 1: That's so sweet. You know, things get spicy again real quick.

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Speaker 1: Wagon drivers go on strike and the internationalist communists support them.

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Speaker 1: Repression goes after that. Um, the Popular Front newspaper burn

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Speaker 1: of the struggle and his editors end up going back

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Speaker 1: to jail. The paper keeps going even as it's like

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Speaker 1: main people get thrown in jail. Vaughan and his friends

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Speaker 1: have to move their press constantly. They're weird steampunk salvage

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Speaker 1: parts fucking press. That is honestly so cool, just thinking about,

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't do that now with the Internet and

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Speaker 1: like hive YouTube videos. Yeah no, totally, he's a clerk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. Yeah, it's it's not a coincidence. How

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Speaker 1: many historical revolutionaries. Background is type setting like, but there's

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Speaker 1: hope on the horizon, and people are actually there's a

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Speaker 1: very hopeful period, partly because the workers in France go

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Speaker 1: on strike two in the mid mid thirties. The revolution

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Speaker 1: feels so close that they can touch it. They set

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Speaker 1: about pulling together a call for workers to, as van

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Speaker 1: put it, stormed the gates of hell then and then

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Speaker 1: um and then they all get arrested, including including Vom,

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Speaker 1: before they could do any storming or even any advocacy

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Speaker 1: of storming. He's he's twenty two or twenty three. But

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Speaker 1: you know who else is prison? Not puppy therapy. No, no,

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Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, you know what, let's let's stick to

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Speaker 1: puppy therapy. And what was the other one? Was the

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Speaker 1: other today's sponsor? Yeah, free hot soup. Well everyone, if

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Speaker 1: you want free hot soup, go to food not bombs.

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Speaker 1: If you don't have one, you should start one. Or

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Speaker 1: if you don't like that particular framework, call something else,

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Speaker 1: sup with your friends, super your family. Yeah, call it

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Speaker 1: soup with your fab for your family. And that is

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Speaker 1: the advertiser that's enough that could support, that has enough

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Speaker 1: money to run this podcast, right, well, if we need

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Speaker 1: the extra money, will use some other ads. Yeah, okay, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: And we are back and he's about to go to jail.

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Speaker 1: He's twenty two or twenty three at this point. They

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Speaker 1: come into the offices he's working out of and they

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Speaker 1: drag him off and they make him watch as they

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Speaker 1: raid both his mother's house. Basically, they like, I think

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Speaker 1: he probably planned this with his mother, because he's kind

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Speaker 1: of a um. He gets along well with his mom.

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Speaker 1: He tells them. He's like, they're like, where do you live?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, my mom's house. And so they go

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Speaker 1: to his mom's house and they like take some of

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Speaker 1: those books and stuff from his old room and then

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, but where are your clothes? And he's

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Speaker 1: like a ship, you got me. So if you're planning, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're planning to use your mom's house, that's the

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Speaker 1: place you claim to live, you need to keep enough

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Speaker 1: clothes there to make it believable. So then they go

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Speaker 1: to his own house and they raid it as well,

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Speaker 1: and at this point he's like, I'm in it. This

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Speaker 1: is my life, Like okay, I I mean he's already

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Speaker 1: started groups, he's already been working on this stuff. But

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Speaker 1: he's like, this is this is the moment. And then

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Speaker 1: his quote unquote civilizers take him to jail and torture

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Speaker 1: the ship out of him. Humans are very creative at

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Speaker 1: exactly two things, execution and torture. I'm not gonna read

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Speaker 1: tell you about this particular torture, but it's one i'd

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Speaker 1: never heard of before. It sucked. And then they sent

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Speaker 1: him to prison, which also sucked. And they while in

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Speaker 1: prison with along with his other prisoners, he started organizing

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Speaker 1: because of course you do. Because I can't stop. We'll stop, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said, organizers to prison. You're getting an organized prison.

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Speaker 1: The twenty or so prisoners in a cell elected him Delicate,

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Speaker 1: and he was tasked with making demands of the prison.

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Speaker 1: First it was we need another drug of water. So

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Speaker 1: when they came in the screws came in the morning,

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Speaker 1: he was like, hey, we need another drug of water

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Speaker 1: and they were like what. He's like, we needed to

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Speaker 1: drug of water, and so they drag him off in

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Speaker 1: front of the head jailer who screams at him, says

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Speaker 1: I'm going to disembowel you, holds up the book of

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Speaker 1: French rules, and then gives them another drug of water. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Every morning thereafter, the prisoners compiled a list of their

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Speaker 1: needs and delivered them to the guards. Yes, and they

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Speaker 1: do the best they can. Life sucks in the prison,

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Speaker 1: but his family walks all the way from the village

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Speaker 1: to see him. When they can. They all pass news

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Speaker 1: about the prison out to the radical press. And the

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Speaker 1: one upside of the Franco Russian Pact is that it

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Speaker 1: lightens some of their sentencing, probably because communism was no

403
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Speaker 1: longer considered the enemy of the French people. But he

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Speaker 1: still is taken in front of a judge and gets

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Speaker 1: a year for running a newspaper. That's, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the scheme of things. Maybe not, yeah, exactly, I mean

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Speaker 1: I personally would not. I'm not like ya, No, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to Yeah, yeah, no, totally. It's it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things is like the prison system

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Speaker 1: in the United States is so nightmarish that fairly regularly

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Speaker 1: I read about these incredibly horrible regimes where they're perfectly

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Speaker 1: willing to carpet bomb people, where prison is like roughly

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Speaker 1: equivalent or a little bit nicer than the United States prisons, right,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to paint the French colonial prison

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Speaker 1: is nice. I'm trying to specifically say that America is

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Speaker 1: a hellscape. A lot of prisoners were in there for

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Speaker 1: ship like raised a red flag on a tree in

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Speaker 1: his village or read out a leaflet on a street.

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Speaker 1: Some of them had five years extra tagged on for

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Speaker 1: every time they shouted down with French imperialism during their sentencing,

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Speaker 1: which at that point, like some of these people were

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Speaker 1: just like just fucking kept yelling at yeah, and no

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Speaker 1: matter how long they got sentenced to French imperialism last

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Speaker 1: at the longest you could possibly pretend forty more years

425
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: um by most standards, substantially less than that, most standards

426
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: less than ten more years m. Outside of prison, people

427
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: kept revolting. Rice planters, brick makers, sugar refiner, soap maker,

428
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: street car drivers all go on strike. The rubber plan

429
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: plantations such as our friend the Michelin rubber plantation. The

430
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: workers go on strike there, including against the kind of

431
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: thing that you would not imagine needing to go on

432
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: strike against. What is it the fact that there are

433
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: private prisons on this plantation just for workers. That must

434
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: be a widely deeply felt issue. That makes sense, though yeah,

435
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: you imagine if I mean the Amazon whereas also sound

436
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: like help I amount of they just like literally had

437
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: private prisons in them. Twenty coal miners go on strike.

438
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: Coal miners are gonna come back really awesome, A little

439
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: bit okay. In Saigon, striking workers are fed by peasants

440
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: from the countryside, because again, ship happens when you get

441
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: the peasants and the workers working together. Yeah. Uh, sawmill workers,

442
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: saw millers occupy their workshops. Oh good old sit down. Yeah.

443
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: And these revolts take on more and more of a

444
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: syndicalius tendency of intention and only specifically named as such

445
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: syndicalist tendency a bottom up communism um, and like largely

446
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: is being done not necessarily. I can't tell whether it's

447
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: being done by the opposition communists or whether it's being

448
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: done with the style of communism that they advocate. Mm hmm,

449
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: because after all, the Communist Party wasn't organizing against imperialism

450
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: at this point. There were buds with imperialism at this point. Um. Now,

451
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: to be fair, tell that to all the imprisoned Communist

452
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Party anti imperialists who are in prison. Like anyway, so

453
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: Ivan gets out of prison and This is how you

454
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: know he's a good person. The first thing he did

455
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: when he got out of prison is he went home

456
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: to his village and he saw his mom. I fucking

457
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: knew it. Okay, okay, all right, Yeah that's also really sweet.

458
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: I know his his dad has died. His dad died

459
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: when he was like a ten or something like that,

460
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: and his mom isn't increasingly retreating into the invisible world

461
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: like um. And she you know, practiced an ancestor worship

462
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: and she spends more of her time talking to spirits

463
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and hanging out with spirits than the human world, which

464
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: fucking fair at this point, you know, Oh yeah, that

465
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I can't blame her. Yeah. Another thing

466
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: that happens is the Stalinists, who are part of that

467
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: common Front newspaper, the Struggle, they get a letter from

468
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: their higher ups saying they can't play nice at the

469
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: Trotskyist anymore. In fact, they're all actually kind of in

470
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: trouble for having played nice with the Trotskyis for so long,

471
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: which is why you shouldn't have higher ups. Yeah. Uh,

472
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: the Stalinist left the paper, they started their own paper,

473
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: and then they said that all the Trotskyist are fascists.

474
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: It's like Twitter but with more guns. Oh my god,

475
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: which is saying something based on current Twitter. So um. Meanwhile,

476
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: the French have their Popular Front government at this point

477
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: that is ostensibly socialist. So they changed the colonial code

478
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: because the socialists are in charge of France. They changed

479
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 1: still have a colonial code. Oh yeah, literally all they

480
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: changed the language. Um. It used to say that colonial

481
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: subjects had to do quote compulsory public service work, but

482
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: they changed it to quote community work canceled canceled. No, yep,

483
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: sorry six France, You're all right. This time period of

484
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: France is about to get canceled hard, but in a

485
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: different direction when the new Popular Front colonial governor shows up.

486
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: So when the new popular Front colonial governor shows up,

487
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: the cops arrest and torture all the protesters. Thanks Western

488
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: liberals who pretend to be leftists. Hashtag in our Vietnam?

489
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: Did they have the stickers back then? Yeah? I think so.

490
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: Um yeah, hashtags were a big I'm trying to come

491
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: up with like a way of I got nothing. I

492
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: can't come up with a weird, old timy way that

493
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: hashtags could come up with. I'm sorry, maybe people carving

494
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: them into I got nothing, Okay, So Von sets himself

495
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: up editing and at another paper for a living, and

496
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: he goes on to make pamphlets because at this point

497
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: he's like basically a newspaper guy, and he goes on

498
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: making his own zines and pamphlets and stuff, and he

499
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: basically is discussing how to organize syndicates and how to

500
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: do bottom up communism because this is like a huge

501
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: way that they're doing the organizings, telling people how to

502
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: how they can do their own ship. Right. So the

503
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: cops kick in his door and drag them right back

504
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: to prison. Classic, Yeah, that'll teach you magazines about syndicates.

505
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: So he gets out and he funks off to Cambodia

506
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: for a few years. He's like all this because Cambodia

507
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: it's just still part of French Indo China. I like

508
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: spent a while reading about the relationship between Vietnam and

509
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Cambodia at this point, and it's basically it's like the

510
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: Vietnamese folks living in Cambodia were like seen as a

511
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: privileged class and therefore in some ways resented by the

512
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: Cambodian folks. But he is just fucking trying to lay Low,

513
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, for a couple of

514
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: years in the middle of this ship he is being

515
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: constantly watched, and he still writes for papers in Saigon,

516
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: but honestly, he's just trying to work. And the political

517
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: differences between Communists and Vietnam are getting more and more intense.

518
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: As the nineteen thirties come to an end, both sides

519
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: are running candidates for the colonial government. It's no longer

520
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: a slate between the two. Um. The Stalinists have a

521
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 1: collaborationist set of candidates that are support the French. The

522
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: Trotskyists have a slate of candidates that oppose the French. Okay,

523
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: choice seems pretty clear here. It was a fairly clear

524
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: choice for the public as well. The Stalinists are pushing

525
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: for support in World War Two. The Trotskyists are like, no,

526
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: we should not be taxes, be in like, be conscripted

527
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: to fight in Western Wars. We tried that, it sucked.

528
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: And so the trotsky Is win um very clearly and strongly.

529
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: And I doubt it's because people were like I specifically

530
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: care about this Russian political difference, and more because I

531
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: know I just don't want to go fight a war

532
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: I don't give a funk about Yeah, exactly. The French

533
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: colonial guy, the governor general. I think he's the popular

534
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: fronts ostensibly socialist guy. He put it bluntly. While the

535
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: Stalinist communists have understood that the interests of the animite

536
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: Vietnamese masses require them to ally with France, the trutsky

537
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: Iss have not hesitated to incite the natives to revolt

538
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: so as to take advantage of a possible war in

539
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: order to gain total liberation. Don't you hate it when

540
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: people manipulate the political situation for something they want? Oh?

541
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: I hate it on that, I know, like freedom for themselves.

542
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: A fucking tricksy Trutskyists forty Unfortunately, the candidates that they're

543
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: running in are basically the local elections. They don't have

544
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: any power in the colonial government as far as I

545
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: can tell, I haven't read the details, but they clearly

546
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: are not exerting enough power to stop the fact that

547
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: forty thousand Vietnamese or script can scripted anyway, two of

548
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: them as soldiers, of whom six thousand die, and twenty

549
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: as laborers. One interesting cool thing about conscripting a bunch

550
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: of laborers from your colonial government right before you're conquered

551
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: by the Nazis. Is that those labors have to work

552
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: for the Nazi war machine essentially pretty quickly mm hmm.

553
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: Then Russia switches sides again and joins the Hitler's side

554
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: in the old Molotov Ribbon trap packed and Russian, Russia

555
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: and Germany invade Poland. War is to get declared. Everything

556
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: starts happening faster. Now the Communist Party is allowed to

557
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: fight the French again because Russia's on Hitler's side and

558
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: hates the French. Okay, yeah, and it's going to go

559
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: back and forth so many times. It's just the Vietnamese

560
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: people are just ping ponged by which side Russia's on

561
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: so many times. And no Van is deported from Cambodia

562
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: to Vietnam without any particular new charge. He's just rounded

563
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: up as a troublemaker basically. Um. A friend in Vietnam

564
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: had written him and been like, Hey, what Trotsky book

565
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: should I read? And he was like, read these two

566
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: and then like he was, um taking him prison. Damn.

567
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 1: He just cannot catch up, right, he absolutely cannot. For

568
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: the first thirty eight years of his life, He's held

569
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: in jail for months and then it's taken for trial

570
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: and then to check off a box on the cool people. Bengo.

571
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: He defends himself in court, but not because he's cheeky

572
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: like all of the other people who defended the seals

573
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: in court, because they don't give him a lawyer. Ah right,

574
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: okay um. The only evidence against him is that in

575
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: all of his letters that they've been reading all of

576
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: his letters he at one point mentioned to Trotsky books

577
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: by name. He gets eight months in prison for this, wow,

578
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: and he's and then in with the political So all

579
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: the political prisoners are sort of kept in one area,

580
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: which is I know, I mean, I'm here for it,

581
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: but that's a that's a rookie mistake, is amateurish. There's

582
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: a new crew in the political prisoner camp, the Communists

583
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: who have never actually been the only people on the scene,

584
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: but now they're like extra not the only people on

585
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: the scene. You have the cow Dietists and cow die

586
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: is Um is a syncretic religion that was developed in

587
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: the ninet twenties that has millions of followers today and

588
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: it's a I can't do it justice. It's a monotheistic

589
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: religion that seems to pull from everything that was present

590
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: in um in Vietnam at that period, and they kept

591
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,959
Speaker 1: getting thrown in prison because they burned their tax cards

592
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: and refused to cooperate with the French government, which is

593
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: a cool first move for a new religion. And no

594
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: Van writes an article about why communists should be in

595
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: solidarity with them, and then goes through a fair amount

596
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: of work to get that article smuggled out of prison

597
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: and with a guard bribed with opium. Nice, okay, I know,

598
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: I like this guy. Yeah, he serves his time, he's

599
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: let out, he's re arrested that day, Oh my god.

600
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: Like literally he walks out and there's this woman with

601
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: his bicycle who's like, hey, you should follow me, and

602
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: he's like what, He follows her and they arrest him.

603
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: Wait what that's in traumant? Well not that that whatever,

604
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: there's no charges, just arrest him. Oh okay, okay, that's

605
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: where we're at in this particular. Uh, they stopped trying.

606
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, they're like, oh, we only got

607
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: eight months when we arrest him for writing letters, So

608
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: they send him they call it house arrest, but it's exile.

609
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: He gets sent to a distant rural town called Travin, Okay,

610
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: and he's allowed in the whole town. He has to

611
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: not he's not allowed to leave, and he has to

612
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: check in every two weeks with the authorities. Like I

613
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: literally don't think there was any charge besides people screaming

614
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: communists in his face. Okay. He sets about making his

615
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: money making rice cakes and selling fish in the market.

616
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: Plus he's now also making and selling traditional medicines that

617
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: he learned how to make from fellow prisoners. Somewhere along

618
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: the way, and all of this, he has three kids,

619
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: which he does not mention until the second to last

620
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: page of his memoir. Well, you know, they can write

621
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: their own memoir, I know. And it's like I've gone

622
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: back and forth about whether he's just pulling a misogyny

623
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: and just being like, oh, family doesn't matter, or if

624
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: his wife is like our partner baby mom or whatever.

625
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: It's like, lea me a funk out of it. Maybe

626
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, he loves his mom, I

627
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: know exactly, And he talks about his brothers and ship

628
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: all the time and his sisters. So anyway, somewhere along

629
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: the way, I don't know if it's an hour later,

630
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: but here's where I chose to throw it in. He

631
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: ends up with some kids. Meanwhile, while he's an exile,

632
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: You'll be shocked to know what the Vietnamese people are doing.

633
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: They're fighting the French. No, what you haven't mentioned that? Yeah,

634
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: I know it's coming out of nowhere. So Japan has

635
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: sort of invaded Vietnam. People are still salty about that. Yeah,

636
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: and at this point they're sharing it with France. UM,

637
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: I think this is when the I think there's old

638
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I couldn't figure out whether there's overlap

639
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: with the VICI, the the Nazi French and the Japanese, like,

640
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: whether it was only ever them, or whether the Japanese

641
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: ever shared Vietnam with the estensibly socialist French. I'm not sure.

642
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: But at this point Vichy government, Nazi of Nazi Frances,

643
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: now the controllers of Vietnam and the viet and the

644
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: Japanese show up. Okay, and yeah, people are salty at first,

645
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, the Japanese are going to help us out,

646
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: but then the Jabs don't help them out. Instead they

647
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: just conquer it, right, so people revolt. This time it

648
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: was primarily organized by the Communist Party. UM. Most of

649
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: their leaders are in jail, but um, that doesn't really

650
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: matter at the end of things. Um, and they've got

651
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: some solid networks. Uh. One article I read referred to

652
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: them as more as like surfing the wave of revolt,

653
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: rather than being the direct organizers of it, and that

654
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: might be accurate. Also, oh interesting, but to some degree

655
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: they were directing ship that was going to happen anyway,

656
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: some degree they were organizing it whatever. Um. A lot

657
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: of the fighters during this uprising are not communists. They're

658
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: more religious than political. You have the Cawdietists that I

659
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, and you also the how how who are

660
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: a Buddhist sect formed? It is kind of what I

661
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: was talking about where I was like, every religion is

662
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: getting into this fight and like really interesting in different ways,

663
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, that's cool. And so the how how

664
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: are Buddhist sect formed? In nine and them in the

665
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: cows are some of the main people fighting in the

666
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: French for decades? Um? The how how hold large swabs

667
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,479
Speaker 1: of territory? They end up fighting the National Liberation Front

668
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: alongside the State Communist until the final victory of State Communists.

669
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: Of course, as soon as the party came into power,

670
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: they outlawed cow die is Um and it wasn't relegalized

671
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: again until but the revolt itself November ninety against the

672
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: French and the Japanese both The whole western half of

673
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: coach in China is revolting. The southern region of Vietnam.

674
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: Peasants are storming the barracks to steal weapons. They're singling

675
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: out and killing all the torturers like at whenever they

676
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: yeah um, and they're starting to set up autonomous regions

677
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: and they're succeeding for for short periods of time. And

678
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: because patterns repeat themselves, they get carpet bombed and machine

679
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: gunned and hundreds of them are guillotined in the streets. Okay,

680
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: survivors are put into prison barges and have to die.

681
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: And the whole uprising failed for a bunch of reasons,

682
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: one of which is that they planned it around the

683
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: French being busy invading Thailand. But at the last minute,

684
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: the French didn't invade Thailand. You know who did invade

685
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: THI No, um, let's just stick to the soup thing.

686
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: I really am really excited about the soup free hot

687
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: soup and turtles. I like turtles turtles can support the podcast,

688
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: I think, so all right, anything else? Any any sponsors

689
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: were missing snow, I don't think so. Okay, you're looking

690
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: around on your desk trying to find something sponsible. I

691
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: don't know, sponsored by Bao Fang. The easiest way to

692
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: commit sec crime, Yeah, only if they find you. Yeah,

693
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: that's why it's so easy hard to get caught. Anyway.

694
00:40:53,760 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: Here's some as So Okay, you're wondering with this, uh,

695
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: this failed uprising, whether the Communist party like lost their

696
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: ship and started killing a bunch of their own people,

697
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: like a bunch of cartoon villains. The answer is yes. Yeah. However,

698
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: here's where it starts becoming really important to note not

699
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: nearly to the same degree that the French and Japanese

700
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: government was running around killing everyone. Um. And I feel

701
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: like that's where some of the biased stuff of my

702
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: own bias and I should be really careful about is

703
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: because when I'm like going forward, the stay Communists are

704
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: gonna do a lot of pretty awful and indiscriminate murder,

705
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: and it's not going to hold a candle to the

706
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: indiscriminate murder of the colonial powers that they're fighting, right.

707
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: Vaughan for his part. He's an exile near the edge

708
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: of this uprising. He doesn't hear about it until it's over.

709
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: He just gets to see the carts full of dead

710
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: peasants rolled past town. That's devastating, I know. And he's

711
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: also getting sick after nine months in exile East its

712
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: spinning up blood. My god, does he have tuberculosis? Are

713
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: you reading the script? Yeah, he has tuberculosis. He gets

714
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: leave to go to Saigon for medical care out of

715
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 1: the blue. He didn't expect this to happen. His mom

716
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: shows up to escort him back to Saigon. You know,

717
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: I started crying when I was writing it. You know

718
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: this mom, the peasant who prefers the company of the

719
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: dead to the living. Her son is sick and just

720
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: out of prison sort of, So she comes by herself

721
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: across the country to bring him back to Saigon on

722
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: a boat. He spends a month in the hospital. Yeah,

723
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: because he's got tuberculosis. I was good. I had this

724
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: whole drum roll thing he caught on early. He recovers partly,

725
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: he recovers partly he doesn't die of it, and he

726
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: has to get a job. He's allowed to no longer

727
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: be an exile somehow, or maybe he just doesn't go back.

728
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure. He gets a job processing Buffalo

729
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: High it's to send to the Japanese, which is terrible

730
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: for his lungs and means he's like literally helping out

731
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: his fucking occupiers. And basically it's like it's this or

732
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: dive starvation. So that's got a fucking sucked. And then

733
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: his memoirs fast forward through the entire fucking World War two.

734
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: What I know, I like literally got confused and like

735
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: had to keep scrolling back and forth, scrolling. It was

736
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: a physical book. But ship is happening, Yeah, especially up

737
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: north how Chi men the leader of the vietnmam. Um,

738
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: they're fighting guerrilla style against the Japanese and VICI France,

739
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: with the help of the US, of course, because the

740
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: US has armed every single person we fought against. I'm

741
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: actually curious this was anyone that we that the US

742
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: fought against in the twenty century that they didn't arm

743
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: first but themselves. Mm hmm. So near the end of

744
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: the war, Vietnamese folks are starving. Um, we're talking about

745
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: earlier likely a million people. I've seen up to two

746
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: million people ar in Vietnam during World War Two due

747
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: to a combination of famine and how the Japanese just

748
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: stole food for themselves. Um, you were talking about how

749
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 1: this is something that your family talks about. Mm hmm. Yeah.

750
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: My grandma like, well, my great grandma and great grandpa

751
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: were alive until I was like twenty something, like early

752
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: mid twenties, and so it was just like in their

753
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: scene all days, they would mention stuff. And my grandma

754
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: still mentions every now and then that like the siblings

755
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: that she that I've met, Um, they're like twenty plus

756
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: years apart. Yeah, and so there was like a bunch

757
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: of siblings in between that just died. Yeah, mm hmm.

758
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: I just can't even really wrap my head around being

759
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: in this country and having to work for and having

760
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: all your food stolen by your occupier and like, I

761
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Then two days after Germany surrenders fucking overnight

762
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: March nine to nine to ten, the night between the

763
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: ninth and the tenth of March, Japan ended French indo China.

764
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: There's debt. They're just fucking fucking arrested all the French.

765
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: Oh okay um, they created the independence that quasi independent

766
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: State of Vietnam uh and then immediately occupied it. The

767
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: Nationalist Party, along with the how How and the cow Diists,

768
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: they called for big demonstration of gratitude to the Japanese

769
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: for their liberation, and the Japanese were like, hell, no,

770
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: you can't demonstrate um, even though these people would like literally, actually,

771
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: the how How and the cow Dists have helped Japan

772
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: do the actual rounding up of all the French and

773
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: ship like that, you know, and then Japanese started looting

774
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: the place and murdering people and kidnapping women for sex slavery.

775
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: H None of this lasts very long because on August five,

776
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: Japan surrendered and then they should cause fucking messy or somehow.

777
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: Still France is like, but we want our colony back.

778
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,479
Speaker 1: How Cheamn's like, no, you can't have your fucking colony back.

779
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: Fuck you. And that's how you get the first into

780
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: China war with the Vietmain versus the French. It's actually

781
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: a diverse group of nationalists and leftist versus the French. UM.

782
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 1: At first, before they'd even taken real power, they start

783
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: rounding up and killing and torturing all the opposition groups.

784
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: I want to quote von about my favorite action during

785
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: all of this, which is not not the this not

786
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: meaning the Stalinist murdering people, but about all the peasant revolt,

787
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: all this stuff that's happening. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah, yeah,

788
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: knowing my favorite time that the Stalinist murdered people. Okay,

789
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: So a burst of wild hope filled us when we

790
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: learned that thirty thousand miners in the hong I Comfo

791
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: coal mines had taken their fate into their own hands

792
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: in the left to worker councils to manage the coal

793
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: production themselves. The miners were now in control of the

794
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: public services in the area, the railways, in the telegraph system.

795
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: They were applying the principle of equal pay for all

796
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: types of work, whether manual or intellectual. That even begun

797
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 1: a literacy program, setting up courses in the in which

798
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: those who were literate taught their fellow workers how to read.

799
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: In this working class commune, life was organized with no

800
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: bosses and no cops. I fucking I want to read

801
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: entire books just about this, and I want us to

802
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: talk about it as much as we talk about ship

803
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 1: that had the label anarchy attached to it, because that's

804
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: really just like that. I would just want to know,

805
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: like read someone's diary from that time. I know, I know,

806
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: just like what was like the average daylight, because I

807
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: think this kind of stuff really just gets really glorified,

808
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: like you were just saying, and what really interests me

809
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: is just like the everyday aspect of it. Yeah. Within

810
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: a few months, the Vietmin arrested the leaders of this

811
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: working class commune forced a rigid hierarchy on the place.

812
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: Why Yeah. In Saigon, the Vietmin held a big rally

813
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: declaring the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. One of their old

814
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: friends from that newspaper the Struggle asked that this rally, well,

815
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: who elected you? Yeah, good question. He was found shot

816
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: dead a few days later in the streets. The people's

817
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: army they had in the south consisted of river pirates

818
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: and the people who had served as the riot cops

819
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: under the French and then the Japanese. So basically the

820
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: people who are like, as long as we get to crackheads,

821
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: don't care or cracking heads for And this was actually

822
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: probably um just going around going we're we're yeah yeah.

823
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: And this is even before this particular meeting in Saigon,

824
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: is before the French came back and tried to rule

825
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: it again, and the vietmain said, no one is allowed

826
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: to carry guns when the French come back, except cops,

827
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: which is actually a weird mirror of that time that

828
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: the dynasty, the new dynasty refused to arm the populace

829
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: and then they lost. Yeah, the trutsky Is and the

830
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: people themselves were like, hey, we should carry guns when

831
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: the French come Yeah. Absolutely, And fortunately no one listened

832
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: to the Vietnam about this particular thing, and specifically they

833
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: said we should organize ourselves into people's militias, and so

834
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: people started doing that, and then people started setting up

835
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: people's counsels based on neighborhood self organizing um, and then

836
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: but but doing organizing all across Sigon, and no Van

837
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: is running around buying weapons on the black market and

838
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: stashing them uh in various places of the different people's

839
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: militias can get access to them. This guy just like

840
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: does not stop. No, he is fucking and he's disabled.

841
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: He is like like he is a very sick, long

842
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: affected tuberculosis patient as he does us and he still

843
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: does this and has three kids. Yeah, yeah somewhere and

844
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 1: that's all of this at some point. Yeah, I hope

845
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: he's a good dad. I don't know. I don't know.

846
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: We'll see the French show up. The Vietmin are like, hey,

847
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: Bud's welcome back. We're pals right, and give up a big,

848
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: warm welcome. I don't quite understand this part. The French,

849
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: with British soldiers backing them, order them to dissolve and

850
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: have everyone and everyone's disarmed. No one goes along with it,

851
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: but in order to appease the French and maybe negotiate

852
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: as equals. That's my best guess about what's happening in

853
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: Saigon with Vietmain. I don't think this is like Ho

854
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: Chi Men's strategy. I think this is what the Vietmain

855
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: you're doing in Sigon. But I don't know. Um, the

856
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: Vietmain blame the people's militias and the people's counsels. They're like, oh,

857
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: they're the ones who didn't like you. And since the

858
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: Vietmin run the prisons, because of course they do, everyone

859
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: else is like listen a people with councils, and Vietmins

860
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, we Vietmain are like, we're gonna get

861
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: the prisons. They start rounding up and arresting the people's counsels. Classic, classic, classic,

862
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: and this was they didn't like the French. This was

863
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: them attempting to like negotiate power or something, you know. Uh.

864
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 1: Soon enough they call for a general strike, which leads

865
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: to martial law, and the city hall is stormed by

866
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: the British and the French, and so are the prisons,

867
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: and now all the political prisoners, all the people counseled

868
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: prisoners who are arrested by the stalinists are now in

869
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: the French hands. And the whole I mean, the whole

870
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: country is in revolt. The city puts up this desperate resistance.

871
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: They barricade the streets that met my machine gun fire.

872
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: The French left calls this the dirty War, in part

873
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: because most of the people in the colonial forces were

874
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: colonial subjects themselves, Like the British are there with their

875
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: Indian soldiers and the French are there with their Algerian soldiers.

876
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: So it's basically like making people of colorified people of

877
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: color mm hmm. The colonial forces hold the city center,

878
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: Vietmain and their coalition UM and the people's militias UM.

879
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: Because the Vietmam's coalition includes I think a lot of

880
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the other religious groups. I'm not. It's just so fucking messy.

881
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: They hold the outskirts of the city. Meanwhile, they go

882
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: around and kill all the trots Kists they can find.

883
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: No Van has to flee. Him and his friend. They're

884
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: smuggled out of the city in a riverboat. So he

885
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: goes home to his village, arms his brothers, says goodbye

886
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: to his mother, and goes and joins the people's militia.

887
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: You know, I just love that he loves his mom.

888
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: I know, like he could. He's like, I'm gonna go

889
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: like kill some motherfucker's but also I love you mom. Yeah. Yeah,

890
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna give everyone in the family a handguns too,

891
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: because we're gonna need that. I mean that, honestly. I

892
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: can't say that I haven't had that day dream whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

893
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: So in the city, other people people's militias, all the

894
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: non Vietmin fighters, they stay and fight. Hundreds of them die,

895
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: including the workers that the newspaper the struggle. Uh. They

896
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: form a like hundreds strong block that I think is

897
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: like gunned down by the French, not the vietmain I believe.

898
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: On a on a bridge out in the countryside, Vaughan

899
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: and a few other folks from his people's militias are

900
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: arrested by the Vietmin and the Vietmain at this point

901
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: are using local bandits and local ex colonial cops, and

902
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: they're rounding up any prisoners they can to look good

903
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: to their bosses, including every Catholic they can find, deciding

904
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: that all Catholics are working with the enemy and executing them,

905
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: plus just torturing people into false confessions of working with

906
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: the French and then executing them. And no Van spends

907
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: several days in the Vietmin jail in the countryside, listening

908
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: to people being tortured and executed. One of his fellow

909
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: prisoners is a surveyor who had been arrested for helping

910
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: divvy up land that the peasants had stolen back from

911
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: a rich landowner um because the Stalinists had decided to

912
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: make common cause with the rich against the poor. That

913
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: seems fucked up, Yeah, it's not so good, no, But

914
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: then he's rescued. The rest of his unit finds him

915
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: and they have negotiations with the Vietmin. The negotiations are basically,

916
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: there's more of us, we have more guns. Let them

917
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: the fuck go, Yeah, that's compelling. I think it is.

918
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: It's a strong negotiating position. And so he gets out

919
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: and he rejoins the People's militia, and when he gets out,

920
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: he finds out that three of his friends had tried

921
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: to get into Saigon to help. They had been arrested

922
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: by the French, released and then we're executed by the

923
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: vietmin oh. And at this point Van he can't keep

924
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: up with the militia, is tuberculosis has ruined his lungs,

925
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: but he's like gott to be of use, so he

926
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: heads off to Saigon, where he literally just heard about

927
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: three of his friends fucking going through hell and then dying.

928
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: So he hides from both sides of the war. Even

929
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: though he's a he himself is on one side of

930
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: the war. Along the way, he sees how the French

931
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 1: during the recolonizing they are brutal, and they are they

932
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: are in order of magnitude, are more more brutal than

933
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: the VIETNMAM. And that is the thing I do need

934
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: to feel like like at one point and try not

935
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: to go with too many of the specific descriptions of

936
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: bad ship, but at one point at least they're like

937
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: booby trapping dead children, so that when people go to

938
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: go find their dead child, they're blown up by a

939
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 1: hand garnade. Who's doing there? Okay, that's what I thought.

940
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,720
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I include that is because

941
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: like part of the Western demonization of um of the

942
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: Viet Cong is like booby traps and ship um, and

943
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: so like we learned it from you. Dad is like

944
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: a pretty freaking valid. Anyway, his own village was attacked

945
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: by the French. His brother had been shot in the

946
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: knee but survived. French colonists who sided with the Vietnames

947
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: were rounded up and beaten. One woman was stripped to

948
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: the waist and marched to the streets with a sign

949
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: around her neck that says I signed a Marxist resolution.

950
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: And it's worth noting that I think overall, the French

951
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: aren't murdering the French citizens who are siding with the

952
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: Viet the Vietmin, but they are absolutely beating the ship

953
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: out of them and arresting them and subjecting them the

954
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: weird torture. He's also hearing about more and more people

955
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: killed by the Vietmin, about doctors and comrades, about a

956
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 1: teacher killed by his own former student, and people hide him.

957
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: He spends several days lying flat in a fishing boat,

958
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: talking with the fisher. When the fisher takes it out

959
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: to go fishing, um, he spends longer in a series

960
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,479
Speaker 1: of safe houses. Once he gets the Saigon, his own brother,

961
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: brother number ten, was murdered by the Vietmin. Yeah, and

962
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: so he just keeps hearing terrible news all across the country.

963
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: Peasants had redivided the land under the slogan the land

964
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: to those who work it, which is a pretty reasonable

965
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: slogan and probably better than the used the French to

966
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: prug or s our society or whatever, only to have

967
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: Ho Chi Minh make declarations that it was illegal to,

968
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: you know, make communism. The various religious sects that had

969
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: fought for the revolution, we're getting persecuted too. And by persecuted,

970
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean murdered at least a ton of their leaders,

971
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: plus all the non aligned nationalists. The how how after

972
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: the after Vietmin tried to assassinate their leader, and I

973
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: forgot to mention that his name was the Mad Monk.

974
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: They held their territory and they killed the Vietnamin who

975
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: tried to enter their territory because the Vietmain were trying

976
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: to kill them all the while they stayed fighting against

977
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: the French. But then, in a master stroke of giving

978
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: a huge chunk of people over the enemy, the Vietmain

979
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: successfully assassinated the mad Monk. On the next tr and

980
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: the how how it started fighting for the French instead

981
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: on what? Okay, all right, I will say that of

982
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: all these people, the communist opposition group is the one that,

983
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: even when the Vietmain were killing them, did not go

984
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: and then join the French. Because the cow diists did

985
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: the same thing. They were part of the resistance until

986
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: the Vietmin arrested their leader, and then they moved to

987
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: support the French. The pirates. They've been working for rebellion

988
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: for the rebellion Um, but demanded autonomy from the Vietmin.

989
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: So they were followed into the swamps and murdered, and

990
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: the few survivors went and joined the French. The nationalists

991
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: were executed by the Vietmin. And I am certain that

992
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: the Vietmin used the fact that these people switch sides

993
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: after being murdered to retroactively justify the murder. Well yeah,

994
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: that's usually okay, Yeah, that said, despite all the enemies

995
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: of the Vietmin made the French never retook Vietnam. Yeah,

996
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: racked with tuberculosis, constantly under threat from both the French

997
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: and the Vietmin. Like he's like opened a bookstore and

998
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: Saigon that's getting like rated every fucking just like constantly,

999
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: And Ship Vaughan decides to funk off for good. He

1000
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have a passport, but he pulled strings for three

1001
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: months travel visa to get to France, and he goes

1002
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: into exile in Marseilles, which makes him the second person

1003
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: in two thousand twenty three on this podcast to go

1004
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: into exile and Marseilles because as Babar Heart did the

1005
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: same thing after the colonial forces in Algeria tried to

1006
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: kill her. He left his kids in someone's care without

1007
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: telling us the reader, who hopefully a good person, I

1008
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: don't know. So he goes to France by every one

1009
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: of his friends from his opposition from the opposition party

1010
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: who stayed in the country were dead. Oh my god,

1011
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: that's so sad, I know. He describes a torture that

1012
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: several women friends of his were subjected to in a

1013
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: new creative way that I'm also not going to relate

1014
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: and he moved to Paris and he took badly paid

1015
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: work as an electrician. Um he stayed involved and left

1016
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: his politics his whole life. He tended to avoid ideological

1017
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: labels going forward. He was no longer a Trotskyist. He

1018
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: mostly rolled with the anti authoritarian communists, especially what are

1019
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: called council communists, which are communists who even bottom up

1020
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: communism built out of workers councils. He wrote a ton

1021
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: of history books. He also wrote his memoirs, and he

1022
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: wrote books about the connections between Taoism, anarchism, and other

1023
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: liberatory ideas through time and place. And that's more or

1024
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 1: less where we're gonna leave it the cliffhanger, but here's

1025
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: a short version for anyone needs to know. I'm kind

1026
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: of cutting it before the second end of China War

1027
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: because that's just so much more covered and understood. The

1028
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: Vietmin fought the French to a draw in nineteen fifty

1029
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: four and in what's called the first end of China War,

1030
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: and it left the country divided. There were supposed to

1031
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: be a country wide election to unify the country. Um

1032
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: the Vietmin and the Soviet Union wanted the election to

1033
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: be overseen locally the US, who I have no idea

1034
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: why they should have had any any say in any

1035
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: of this, said that it should be supervised by the

1036
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: U N. Instead, this was rejected. There was no election.

1037
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: The empire in exile. Who's the French puppet? Mhm. He

1038
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: appoints a prime minister instead of having an election. So

1039
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: the communists in the south rose up. This triggers the

1040
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: Second Indo China War, what the US calls the Vietnam

1041
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: War and the Vietnamese I believe called the American War.

1042
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: And that war peasants kicked the ship out of the

1043
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: US and along and bloody war, and they win in

1044
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: the country's unified and global capitalism wins brutal decline. McDonald's

1045
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: does what the French in the US failed to do

1046
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: When Vietnamese state capitalism turned into private capitalism, no Van

1047
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: wasn't surprised. The two were. He felt blood brothers. Near

1048
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: the end of his life, he went home and visited

1049
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: his village for a while. His extended family was like, hey,

1050
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: you should stay here and die among family, and he said, no,

1051
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a wanderer. And he lived until two thousand five,

1052
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: into his early nineties and he was undefeated, despite the

1053
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: best efforts made by all of the major antagonists who

1054
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: have ever been on this show, capitalist colonialists, authoritarian communists,

1055
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: and tuberculosis. Writing about that experience with his Emily and

1056
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: deciding not to return back to his village, he wrote,

1057
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: it's life. The instant of life that is eternity. I

1058
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: feel immortal, I feel eternal. You may die tomorrow or

1059
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: right now, but when you really immerse yourself in some project,

1060
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: you're living beyond the hundred revolutions of the earth around

1061
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: the sun. Actually, time has nothing to do with it.

1062
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: When your eternal, your eternal. Wow, that's really beautiful. I know,

1063
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: I really liked it, and I feel like it's like

1064
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: it comes it's like so good and useful and also

1065
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: comes from such an obvious like you can you can

1066
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: see how that comes from his experience of discussing eternity

1067
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: with his family. You know. Um yeah, so reflections, uh

1068
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: some nations, slight cliffhanger there, I know, it's I'm ready

1069
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: for part three, four or five, eleven twelve, Like I'm

1070
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: it's interesting because like I can't remember if I mentioned

1071
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: this in the last episode, but just like the U

1072
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: the wow, oh my God, I'm tired. Um. The history

1073
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: that we see in the diaspora is never like this comprehensive,

1074
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: and it's usually skewed towards capitalist, colonial perspective. Like my

1075
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: like I spent years going to a Vietnamese school on Sundays,

1076
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: and conveniently this kind of stuff is not taught, you know,

1077
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: And so like I see so much of myself in

1078
01:03:54,760 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: Govan and like, I don't know, I I'm gonna be

1079
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: chewing on this for a while, but like I've always

1080
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: felt like I don't know, I have I don't know

1081
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot of other like specifically like Vietnamese leftist specifically

1082
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: not like anti authitarian, and so like hearing this and

1083
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: like it feels really heartfelt. It feels like maybe I'm

1084
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 1: not so far from home in my spirit. Yeah, it

1085
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: makes sense that like you have this, you know, we

1086
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: end up with like histories one but written by the

1087
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: victors or whatever. And like, from a Western point of view,

1088
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: you have the capitalists, and from a you know, stay

1089
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: socialists of Vietnam point of view, you have the communist party,

1090
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: right and like, and it seems so funny to me

1091
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: because it seems so obvious that it's like, well, actually

1092
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: just people working together and fighting to like be free

1093
01:04:54,320 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: and equal is like clearly the cooler thing and like

1094
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: and neither side could neither side comes off looking so

1095
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: great in this version of this story. You know. So

1096
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: it makes sense that they don't want to talk about it,

1097
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, and it you know, and

1098
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: I really worried, Um, we talked a little bit about

1099
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: this um off off mic earlier. I really worried about, like,

1100
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: it's still worth absolutely celebrating the fact that Vietnamese people

1101
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: like defeated every fucking major power, yeah, you know, um,

1102
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: and like and in the end, that was done in

1103
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: the name of state communism, right, and that's like messy

1104
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: as hell, but like still worth. There's still something amazing there,

1105
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: you know. But then, yeah, so that's that's what I

1106
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: worry about by telling specifically this story about someone who,

1107
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: for very good reasons, absolutely hated the Vietnam you know,

1108
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: mm hmm. I mean it's you know, war is ugly.

1109
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: I think I said this already. You know, war is ugly.

1110
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: Nobody ever wins, blah blah blah. And I think it

1111
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: maybe could be a lesson for folks who have like

1112
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: a really idealistic idea of like what collapse will look like,

1113
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: and that like they're them and their affinity group will

1114
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: be the ones in charge, and you know it's always

1115
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: it's never never going to be that simple. Yeah, yeah,

1116
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: just sad. I feel like most episodes of this unfortunately

1117
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: follow this like you know, and then these really like

1118
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: like for me, the most high point is these thirty

1119
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: thou miners living in a like communist society, right, you know,

1120
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: and so so that's like part of why they're de

1121
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: feet is like extra sad is because like because we're

1122
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: like it could have been so beautiful and I'm sure

1123
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: it would have been absolutely messy and complicated too, right,

1124
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: you know. But like, um yeah, well, uh, anything you

1125
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: want to shout out or plug uh yeah. If you

1126
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: like my cheesy jokes, you can hear more of those,

1127
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: um somewhere on the internet. But more specifically, um, I

1128
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: am part of Yellow Peril Tactical. You can find us

1129
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Yellow Underscore Peril Underscore Technical, and we

1130
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: are also on Twitter y p t Actual and we

1131
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: also do a podcast, Tiger Block Podcasts, where those are

1132
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: actually more even more specifically where my bad jokes are.

1133
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: But you can hear us do weird interviews and us

1134
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: talking to each other? Um, and yeah, that's where to

1135
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: find my my ship posts as well on the internet.

1136
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I want to shout out that people should

1137
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: consider reading UM. I read a lot of history books

1138
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: for my job. This is my job. You're listening to

1139
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: me do my job. I read a lot of history

1140
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: books from my job. And In the Crossfire by no

1141
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 1: von n g O space v a n was one

1142
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: of the most readable and interesting UM books I've read

1143
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: for this and so I really recommend people people read it.

1144
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: And also just as informative and meaningful is Escape from

1145
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: Insul Island, which is about an island of insults that

1146
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: the protagonists wants to not be on, therefore they must escape,

1147
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: which you can order directly from wherever you order books,

1148
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: or from Tangled Wilderness dot org or from a k Press.

1149
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: So if you have anything you want to plug, I

1150
01:08:54,720 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: want to plug the UH. Some resources for the earthquakes

1151
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: that the earthquakes happened in Syria and in Turkey. UM.

1152
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: Check out the White Helmets that's white Helmets dot org.

1153
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: Check out this Syrian American Medical Society Foundation that's s

1154
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: a MS DASH USA dot net doctor Doctors Without Borders

1155
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: Doctors without Borders dot org. And then uh, the Kurdish

1156
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 1: Red Crescent and that's their website is h E y

1157
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: v A s O r uk dot org. Yeah, and uh,

1158
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 1: you didn't listen to the episode that Shrine Lenny Units

1159
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: did for it could happen here on What's what happened there?

1160
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: Please check it out. Yeah that's what I got. All right, Well,

1161
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 1: we'll see you all next week with more tales of people.

1162
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: Who is the first surviving of tuberculosis tale? Actually, I

1163
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 1: mean I think there's are you sure? In our podcast

1164
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: it subreculous is about death rate? Um yeah, that's not good. Yeah,

1165
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: but still means there'll be a lot of people who

1166
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: survive it. Um but yeah, in terms of this, in

1167
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: terms of this show, it is it usually goes in

1168
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: and kills everyone. The state doesn't It's usually like and

1169
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: uh they died of TV. Yeah, all right, by everyone

1170
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: Next week By Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

1171
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on

1172
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1173
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,679
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

1174
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,