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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. I

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Speaker 1: am John Schmell, coming to you from the Giants Podcast Studio,

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Speaker 1: presented by Hackensack and Briading Health.

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Speaker 2: Keep Getting Better. Front of the program joins us today.

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Speaker 1: To have a conversation about where the Giants are, the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and a whole lot more. Longtime NFL

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Speaker 1: reporter Gary Myers, Gary, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great? John, How you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great.

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Speaker 1: Before we start any books coming out, any books out

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Speaker 1: that you want to tell people about, any projects, tell

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Speaker 1: the people what you're up to.

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Speaker 3: Well, my Brady Versus Belichick book came out in September

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Speaker 3: and it's done well. But I just want to alert

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Speaker 3: people to I'm sure you've talked about it. This is

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Speaker 3: the forty year anniversary of the eighty six team coming up,

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Speaker 3: and another Giant's going to do some events. And my

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Speaker 3: book about the eighty sixth team came out in September

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Speaker 3: of twenty three, and you know, it's about the brotherhood

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Speaker 3: that that team formed and how even today, forty years later,

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Speaker 3: they take care of each other to help the more.

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Speaker 3: You know, certain players obviously is suffering. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of players from that era have been and it's just

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Speaker 3: like the book is stilled with heart warming stories and

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Speaker 3: some heartbreaking stories, but really the love and the bond

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Speaker 3: that these players have with each other is unlike anything

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Speaker 3: I've ever seen on any team I've been around. So

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping with the Giants, you know, celebrating the eighty

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Speaker 3: six team this year and this book haven't come out

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Speaker 3: a couple of years agoing and did really well. I'm

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Speaker 3: hoping Giant fans who haven't had a chance to read

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Speaker 3: it yet, we'll pick up a copy of this time around.

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Speaker 2: It is a fantastic book, fans to go check that out, Gary.

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Speaker 2: And what's the exact title? Just what people know to

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Speaker 2: search for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called Once a Giant, A Story of victory,

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Speaker 3: tragedy and life after football.

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Speaker 1: Guys, make sure you find that wherever you buy your books,

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Speaker 1: all right, Gary, So let's start here. You did a

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Speaker 1: great job covering the Giants process of hiring John Harbaugh.

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Speaker 1: Weodin o'connoran former colleague of yours. He did a great

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Speaker 1: job covering it as well. Just tell me about the process,

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Speaker 1: how that whole thing came about it, and you're close

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Speaker 1: with the Harbor, You're obvious close with the Giants as well,

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Speaker 1: and just how they kind of eventually came together, shook

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Speaker 1: hands and John Harball became the next head coach of

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Speaker 1: the Giants.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's perfect timing for the Giants because

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Speaker 3: they really needed somebody of John's stature to come in

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Speaker 3: and kind of steady things, and he's I if you

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Speaker 3: could have drawn up a list of all thirty two

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Speaker 3: coaches in the NFL and said, Okay, they're all available,

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Speaker 3: who do you want? John probably would have been in

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Speaker 3: the top of my list, because not only is he

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Speaker 3: a really good coach, but just the kind of person

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Speaker 3: he is and the respect and credibility that he brings

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Speaker 3: with him is something the Giants really needed right now

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Speaker 3: after I mean, John, you know as well as anybody,

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Speaker 3: what's gone on the last fifteen years. Only two playoff

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Speaker 3: appearances and one victory, and it seems like they know,

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Speaker 3: go through coaches every couple of years, even though you know,

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Speaker 3: Dable made it into you know, halfway through his fourth year.

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Speaker 3: They just needed body that walks into the room, gets

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Speaker 3: is respected immediately, has a super Bowl ring to his

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Speaker 3: credit or immediately becomes the most accomplished Giants coach that

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Speaker 3: they ever hired, because we know that, you know, Parstells

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Speaker 3: was just on Ray Perkins Staff, Coughlin came from Jacksonville.

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Speaker 3: He did very well in Jacksonville. But Harbor comes here

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Speaker 3: with a Super Bowl ring. So that's that says a

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Speaker 3: lot and it gets the players attention. I think the

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Speaker 3: Giants had him pinpointed even before he got fired, because

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Speaker 3: they were drawing up a list of the coaches that

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Speaker 3: were available and the coaches they thought had a chance

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Speaker 3: of being available, and he jumped right to the top

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Speaker 3: of the list. And as soon as the Ravens announced

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Speaker 3: that John wasn't going to be back the Giants, you know,

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Speaker 3: Joe Shane put on the full court press and it worked.

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Speaker 3: You know, Chris Marrow is very instrumental. And then John

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Speaker 3: Marrickham kind of came in as the closer at the end.

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Speaker 3: And John, you know, despite think the lack of success

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Speaker 3: here over the last fifteen years, it's still the Giants.

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Speaker 3: It's still you know, a cornerstone franchise in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'm biased, you know, other than the

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Speaker 3: eight years I spent in Dallas. I spent my entire

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Speaker 3: life in New York, and there is nothing like winning

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Speaker 3: in New York, and especially in a situation that Harba

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Speaker 3: walks into with the Giant fans are just dying for

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Speaker 3: a little bit of hope. And if he gets him

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Speaker 3: into the playoffs relatively soon and makes some Super Bowl

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Speaker 3: contenders and then wins it, I mean he's set for

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Speaker 3: life because he will go on the list of all

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Speaker 3: time great giants if he can get them out of

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Speaker 3: this malaise they've been in and get them back into

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Speaker 3: super Bowl contention.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, its not just Giant fans.

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Speaker 1: New York hasn't seen a title in any sport in

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Speaker 1: what seems like a really long time, So I think

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Speaker 1: New York fans are just desperate in general for it.

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Speaker 2: Guy, you been around here a long time.

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Speaker 1: What can bring in a guy like Harbam who to

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Speaker 1: your point, we'll immediately have the respect of everyone around him,

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Speaker 1: the players, people in the building, knows how to build

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Speaker 1: a program and set up a winning environment. Where are

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Speaker 1: we going to see the impact immediately from bringing a

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Speaker 1: guy like him as he puts his imprint on the organization.

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Speaker 3: Well, John that's a really good question. I think you

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Speaker 3: see it right away with some of the coaches that

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Speaker 3: he's hired. You know, former head coaches like Matt Nagy

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Speaker 3: and Brian Callahan want to come work for him and

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Speaker 3: know that if they do well working for John that

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Speaker 3: it could possibly lead to another head coaching job in

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Speaker 3: the future. And so I think he's built a you know,

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Speaker 3: really strong staff. Greg Roman. Now I wouldn't want Greg

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Speaker 3: Roman necessarily as my offensive coordinator, but I want him

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Speaker 3: as my un run game coordinator because everywhere he's been

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Speaker 3: the run the ball well. And the reason I think

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Speaker 3: it didn't work out with the Charges this year ultimately

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Speaker 3: is because they lost Rashaun Slater in training camp and

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Speaker 3: Alt what's five six games into the season. Those are

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Speaker 3: two All Pro caliber tackles, and you take that off

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Speaker 3: of any team and they're gonna be hurting. You take

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Speaker 3: it off a team that has two are the best tackles,

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Speaker 3: and I you know, you saw the result. They had

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Speaker 3: a hard time protecting Justin Herbert, they had a harder

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Speaker 3: time running the ball, and they would have, you know,

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Speaker 3: if those guys didn't get hurt. So I think to

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Speaker 3: bring Greg Roman in, I don't know that John has

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Speaker 3: announced yet exactly what his role is, but I'm certain

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Speaker 3: he'll be the run game coordinator, like Callahan will be

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Speaker 3: a quarterback coach, and Nagi will be the offensive coordinator.

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Speaker 3: And Kalen had probably been very involved in the passing

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Speaker 3: game with Roman. I'm fine with Greg Roman setting up

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Speaker 3: the running game. I think that was a really good hire.

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Speaker 3: And so that's the first place I think you see

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Speaker 3: Harboy's impact is that coaches want to work with him.

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Speaker 3: And the second time, second place you'll see it and

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Speaker 3: we'll out, you know, pretty soon around the combine time

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Speaker 3: when it starts leaking out with free agents are signing

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Speaker 3: where I think players are going to want to play

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Speaker 3: here for two reasons. One is the coach and the

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Speaker 3: second thing is although it certainly hasn't shown up with

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Speaker 3: only seven victories over the last two years and thirteen

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Speaker 3: over three, the Giants do have a good core group

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Speaker 3: of young players that they just need to each need

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Speaker 3: to add to at key positions. You know, some secondary guys. Certainly,

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Speaker 3: if they can get a shutdown corner, I think they

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Speaker 3: can use a couple more offensive lineman. Even though the

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Speaker 3: line was better last year and it's been in years. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: some more firepower for Dart and we don't know when

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Speaker 3: Milik Nighbors is coming back, you know, hopefully for the

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Speaker 3: Giants that will be the opening game of the season.

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Speaker 3: But even if that doesn't happen, they still need some

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Speaker 3: more outside receivers. You know, you'd like to see him

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Speaker 3: be able to bring back Robinson, Londell Robinson and play

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Speaker 3: them in the slot where I think he'll be most

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Speaker 3: And maybe I know Theo Johnson has some potential, but

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Speaker 3: I like to see them get a tight end that

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Speaker 3: you can just count on to always catch the ball.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, Gary, and I'll get back to the players

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Speaker 1: in a second, but you talked about the coaches, and

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Speaker 1: I think you know the reported hires. I think the

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Speaker 1: combination of Naggie, Roman and Callahan is interesting because he

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Speaker 1: all come from almost different schools of offense.

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Speaker 2: Right now, He's a read guy. Callahan is more from

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Speaker 2: the kind of the mcveyish type of tree.

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Speaker 1: And then you have Greg Roman, who's more of that

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Speaker 1: you know, under center, straight ahead, run game type of guy.

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Speaker 1: Do you think John kind of hands the offense to

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Speaker 1: them and says, guys figure it out.

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Speaker 2: Does He give them parameters of what he wants.

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Speaker 1: The offense to look like, and he says, all right, guys,

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Speaker 1: color within these lines. Yeah, how do those three guys

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Speaker 1: and John bring it all together? And how hands on

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Speaker 1: is John gonna be in describing this is what I

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Speaker 1: want the offense.

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Speaker 2: To look like. Now, you guys figure I how to

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Speaker 2: do it?

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Speaker 3: Well? You know, John, I think he needs to be

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Speaker 3: more hands on that he was in Baltimore because he

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Speaker 3: let Todd Munkin run the offense. And there was too

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Speaker 3: many times when you say, where's Dereck Henry in the

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Speaker 3: fourth quarter that John should have stepped in and demanded

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Speaker 3: that monk and give the ball to Henry. And I

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Speaker 3: thought they lost a bunch of games over the last

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Speaker 3: few years because they didn't run Henry enough. And when

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Speaker 3: he's got it rolling, he's unstoppable, So I think, and

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Speaker 3: you're right, you know, he brought in, you know, three

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Speaker 3: different three coaches with three different philosophies. I think Harbots

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Speaker 3: kind of got to set the table here and set

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Speaker 3: up what kind of offense he wants to run, because

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Speaker 3: you can't you can't have each of these coaches pulling

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Speaker 3: in a different direction. That'll be counter productive. So where

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Speaker 3: I think he is the epitome of a CEO coach,

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Speaker 3: where he does delegate and he trusts his coaches. I

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Speaker 3: think in the first year, and I don't remember how

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Speaker 3: it worked in Baltimore in two thousand and eight, I

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Speaker 3: know he hit Rex as a defensive coordinator, and you

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Speaker 3: know Rex doesn't want anybody bothering him, and I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure that was a good fit. And John was probably

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Speaker 3: fortunate that Rex got a head coaching job after that

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Speaker 3: first year because just like was his father Buddy in Chicago,

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Speaker 3: I thought that that had an opportunity to split the

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Speaker 3: team because to so many defensive players were very loyal

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Speaker 3: to Rex. But like I said, I don't really know

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Speaker 3: how he delegated in Baltimore, but it was also a

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Speaker 3: first time head coach. Then now he's an established coach

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Speaker 3: with a ring and certainly has the cachet you walk

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Speaker 3: into any of the coaches rooms and say this is

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Speaker 3: the way I want it done. So I would think John,

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Speaker 3: in the interviews that he's had with each of these guys,

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Speaker 3: that he lets him know what the expectations were, and

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Speaker 3: he wouldn't have hired any of these coaches if he

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Speaker 3: thought he's going to put the three of them in

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Speaker 3: a room for the first time and they're gonna have

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Speaker 3: three different philosophies and kind of be fighting with each other.

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Speaker 3: That's not going to happen. He wouldn't let that happen.

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Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. I'm curious. I'm excited to see how

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Speaker 1: it all comes together. With the honest with you, I

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Speaker 1: think it'll be fun. That's the offensive side of the ball.

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Speaker 1: Let's such in the defensive ball. Briefly, talking to people

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Speaker 1: around the league when I was at the Shrine Bowl

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Speaker 1: and the Senior Bowl, Gary, you know, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: like an NFL convention. You talk to a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people out there, and everyone had great things to say

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Speaker 1: about who the Giants are supposed to hire as their

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Speaker 1: defensive coordinator.

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Speaker 2: Cording to reports and Donard Wilson as of this recording,

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Speaker 2: what have you heard about him around the league?

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Speaker 1: Obviously, I think John Harbor has shown he has a

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Speaker 1: really good track record of finding good defensive assistants and

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Speaker 1: kind of replacing guys in that role on the defensive

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Speaker 1: side of the ball. What have you heard about him

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Speaker 1: and what do you think he will bring to the

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Speaker 1: Giants as DC John you know.

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Speaker 3: More than me on this.

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Speaker 1: Have they announced Wilson yet, They have announced any coaches yet.

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Speaker 1: It might happen soon, but no announcements have been believe

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Speaker 1: it or not.

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Speaker 3: I guess we're just kind of taking that for granted.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: I know that the Giants wanted to hire Denard Wilson

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago and they couldn't get him.

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Speaker 3: I think he was in Baltimore at that point, and

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Speaker 3: they wan went up hiring.

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Speaker 2: Bone James Bowen.

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Speaker 3: Yeahhama. You know what's funny is that the Judgson the

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Speaker 3: Giants over the last four or five years of hiring

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Speaker 3: awful lot of coaches from Tennessee. I don't quite get

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Speaker 3: that one. You know, they Jets hired some coaches that

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Speaker 3: were off of vrabel staff and the Giants, you know

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Speaker 3: high not two straight defensive coordinators from Tennessee, and also

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Speaker 3: Frank Bush has been rumored have been hired as a

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Speaker 3: linebacker coach. I didn't know that the Titans necessarily were

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Speaker 3: the breeding ground for great coaches, but you know, they

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Speaker 3: must have a bunch of good guys there. But I honestly,

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Speaker 3: I don't know much about Wilson or which scheme he runs.

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Speaker 3: You'd like to think that with the Giants strength being

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Speaker 3: up front, that he's going to find a way to

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Speaker 3: turn Abdul Abdu card or loose. That it's not gonna

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Speaker 3: take three quarters of the way through the season and

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Speaker 3: change in coordinators to find a way to get this

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Speaker 3: guy after the quarterback, because you know, the last four

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Speaker 3: or five games of the year, he finally started playing

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Speaker 3: like everybody had anticipated were at the beginning of the year,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of that could have had to do

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Speaker 3: with the scheme. You know, Thibodeau was out, so it

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Speaker 3: free things up for Carr to be more of an

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Speaker 3: edge rusher than he did than he was earlier in

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Speaker 3: the season. So there is some town up front, but

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Speaker 3: they really need to strengthen the secondary, both the corner

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Speaker 3: and safety and you know, a linebacker they can really use.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're not gonna have a shot at him,

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Speaker 3: but they're no brainer. Picked for the Giants would have

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Speaker 3: been Avril Reeves from Ohio State, but I think he's

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Speaker 3: probably gonna go to the Jets at number two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he makes it the five. Gary,

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Speaker 2: I'm with you on that puddle up. Get in here.

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Speaker 2: If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the

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Speaker 2: middle with at the score great. How do we make

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Speaker 2: that happen? I don't know, but Citizen does.

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Speaker 1: It makes sense of your money with citizens Official Bank

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Speaker 1: of Eli Manning. You mentioned the players, so I talked

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Speaker 1: to you. I asked you about how John Harbor might

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Speaker 1: impact the offense of what it looks like. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: have his fingerprints all over the organization right and that

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Speaker 1: includes personnel decisions and working with Joe Shane collaboratively to

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Speaker 1: build this rosters to the draft and free agency.

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Speaker 2: You you've known the Harball's a long time.

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Speaker 1: What type of players is John Harball going to want

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Speaker 1: to bring into the building, What are his priorities going

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Speaker 1: to be? And how are we going to see his

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Speaker 1: flavor on this player acquisition process?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that both John and Jim believe in

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Speaker 3: having a team that compose its will on the other

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Speaker 3: one on the other team in the fourth quarter. And

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Speaker 3: that means, you know, real physical play up front, strong

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Speaker 3: offensive line, strong defensive line. I think you know Tyral

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Speaker 3: Lindebaum was unless he signs between now and the end

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Speaker 3: of the month or beginning of March, rather a center

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Speaker 3: from from the Ravens is somebody to keep an eye on,

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Speaker 3: whether you know John has targeted him. I think they're

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Speaker 3: gonna be a you know, a hard nosed, tough team,

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Speaker 3: a physical team. But then they just need upgrade the

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Speaker 3: personnel in many different spots.

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Speaker 1: To do that.

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Speaker 3: And I think you can see real pre him in

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Speaker 3: free agency and in the draft of those kind of

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Speaker 3: players you know who are considered, you know, physical players

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Speaker 3: who will be part of a unit that can impose

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Speaker 3: its will both offensively and defensively in the fourth quarter

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Speaker 3: to help the Giants close out those games that they

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Speaker 3: had a problem with. You know, the one thing that

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Speaker 3: really hasn't been discussed yet is I thought one of

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Speaker 3: the issues that the Ravens had the last couple of years,

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Speaker 3: and this is no secret, is they also had some

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Speaker 3: problems closing out games. You remember the first game in

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Speaker 3: Buffalo last season, the Ravens had I think a fifteen

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Speaker 3: point lead with five or six minutes to go when

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Speaker 3: they lost the game to the Bills. And then they

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Speaker 3: had a I believe it was either a Sunday and

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Speaker 3: Monday night game at home against the Patriots. They had

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Speaker 3: eleven point lead in the fourth quarter and they lost

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Speaker 3: that game. Those two games cost them the playoffs for sure.

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Speaker 3: And John is a really smart guy, and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: he's not allow of self scouting about why his team

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Speaker 3: was not able to hold on to those leads. And

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Speaker 3: then he's gone and watched, you know, specifically the Denver

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Speaker 3: and Chicago games, the two games that really the Giants

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Speaker 3: had no excuse losing, and you know, later on Detroit

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Speaker 3: they had a nice lead in the fourth quarter and

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Speaker 3: couldn't hold on. But he's analyzing everything from those fourth

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Speaker 3: quarter collapses the Giants had, and analyzing everything from some

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Speaker 3: of the things that happened in Baltimore last year. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't to an extent the Giants suffered in the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 3: but they did have some problems, and he's figuring out

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Speaker 3: not only what he can learn from those situations, but

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Speaker 3: how to teach the Giants how to win, because when

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Speaker 3: you haven't won, you need to learn how to win.

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Speaker 3: And the way it shows up is if you got

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Speaker 3: a four point lead with five minutes to go, you

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Speaker 3: find a way to win that game no matter what.

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Speaker 1: All right, guy, last question before we jump over to

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame stuff. How quickly do you think

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Speaker 1: they can turn this around. You mentioned the Patriots in

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Speaker 1: your life. Answer Mike Rabell, first year head coach, with

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Speaker 1: the history of the track record, young second year quarterback,

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Speaker 1: they go to the super Bowl. Now I'm not suggesting

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Speaker 1: the Giants are going to be a super Bowl team

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Speaker 1: next year.

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. But how quickly do you think

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Speaker 2: this can turn into Okay, we're really in the.

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Speaker 1: Playoff mix year week sixteen, week fifteen, late in the

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Speaker 1: year where the Giants are competing with the best in

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Speaker 1: the NFC East.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean if you look at the formula that

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Speaker 3: was established last season and you had a we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about New England. First, a veteran coach, an accomplished coach

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Speaker 3: coming in and taking over a program with a second

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Speaker 3: year quarterback Vrabel and Drake May and Vrabel was not

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Speaker 3: as accomplished taking that job as Harball was in Baltimore.

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Speaker 3: Then you look at Chicago. You know, a rookie head coach,

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Speaker 3: he hadn't been a head coach before, but the hottest

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Speaker 3: assistant in the league in Ben Johnson, takes over the

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Speaker 3: Bears with a second year quarterback and they win the division.

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Speaker 3: So now you have the Giants with a veteran coach

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Speaker 3: coming in taking over a program with a second year

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Speaker 3: quarterback who showed a lot of promise as a rookie.

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Speaker 3: So if the Patriots can be four and thirteen in

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Speaker 3: back to back seasons and then be fourteen and three

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Speaker 3: and get to the super Bowl, and the Giants are

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Speaker 3: four and thirteen last year, three and fourteen the year before, again,

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Speaker 3: like you, I'm not predicting a super Bowl. I think

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Speaker 3: that's we lose our credibility if you predict turnarounds like that.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I put something on social media yesterday

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Speaker 3: where I picked the playoff teams for next year. Now,

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Speaker 3: obviously so many things can change after free agency in

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Speaker 3: the draft, but I picked the Giants as my number

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Speaker 3: three wild card team for twenty twenty six. And you

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Speaker 3: know me, I'm not a homer. I'm just looking at

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Speaker 3: this realistically, and win those games that they should have

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Speaker 3: won last year, win a couple more that maybe the

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Speaker 3: having Harbaugh and the coach and Dart with the experience

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Speaker 3: and the improved personnel that will be here next season.

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Speaker 3: And you tell me why, sitting here in early February,

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Speaker 3: you can, you know, Categoryirkley say the Giants can't be

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Speaker 3: a playoff team. You just have to look what's happening

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Speaker 3: in the league. There's new playoff teams every year, and

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe the theme for the Giants season. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that they used it before at some point.

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Speaker 3: It's like, why not us? If it happened in New England,

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Speaker 3: if it happened in Chicago, and you sort of turn

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Speaker 3: around in Jacksonville, you know, why can't the Giants do it?

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Speaker 3: If they have a really good offseason? I think Philadelphia

395
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Speaker 3: is a you know, a chaotic team with a lot

396
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Speaker 3: of disgruntled players. Who knows what the Cowboys gonna be.

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Speaker 3: Apparently Jerry's going to spend some more money this year,

398
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Speaker 3: but you know, will they make the right decision. And

399
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Speaker 3: then I don't know what to make of the Commanders

400
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Speaker 3: because they lose their quarterback and they get completely fell apart.

401
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 3: So they're coming off an NFC championship game two years

402
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 3: ago and now they've got a high draft pick. So

403
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Speaker 3: you know what is what is really in Washington is

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Speaker 3: it totally depends on the quarterback. So I see an

405
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Speaker 3: opportunity here. Whether it's gonna happen or not, I mean,

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Speaker 3: we'll find out, but I wouldn't say the Giants couldn't

407
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Speaker 3: contend for a playoff spot next year. As far as

408
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Speaker 3: the Super Bowl, you know, let's sit here in two

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Speaker 3: and February of twenty twenty nine, after John's been here

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Speaker 3: for three years and say, okay, if they if they

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Speaker 3: haven't been into the Super Bowl at that point, how

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Speaker 3: close are they? And my answer would be, well, if

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Speaker 3: they haven't gotten there yet, I'm sure they already came

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Speaker 3: fairly close, and that twenty twenty nine could be the year.

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Speaker 3: It could be twenty twenty eight. It just doesn't take

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Speaker 3: that much or that long to flip a program as

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Speaker 3: long as you have the two most important elements that

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Speaker 3: any team has to have an elite coach and an

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Speaker 3: elite quarterback. We know the Giants have an elite coach.

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Speaker 3: Now we'll find out if they have an lead quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I should follow up on that before I

422
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Speaker 1: jumped to the Hall of Fame, Gary on Dart, would

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Speaker 1: you think him in the first year, and how do

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Speaker 1: you think John Harball and this group of offensive coaches

425
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Speaker 1: we've talked about, we'll try to shepherd his development. What's

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Speaker 1: the next step for him and what are your expectations

427
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Speaker 1: for moving forward, Well.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to see him play like he did

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Speaker 3: in his first couple of games after he came back

430
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Speaker 3: from the concussion, when it seemed to me that it

431
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Speaker 3: was in his head not to run, because everybody's saying

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Speaker 3: the kid was reckless, and you know, he's a concussion

433
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Speaker 3: waiting to happen, or he's gonna tear his knee or whatever.

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Speaker 3: You can't change the way he plays because the way

435
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 3: he plays is what makes him special. But he can

436
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: get smarter. And the one playoff point to and I

437
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 3: know you'll remember this is when in New England when

438
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 3: he's running along the right sideline and Christianellis, you know,

439
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 3: blasting them into the second level of Gillette Stadium. There

440
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: was just no reason for that. He wasn't going to

441
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 3: get the first down anyhow, Just veer right and get

442
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 3: out of bound. Why we know you're a tough guy.

443
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 3: You don't have to do that. I'm not saying if

444
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 3: he sees a first down running up the middle of

445
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: the field that he shouldn't try to run a linebacker

446
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 3: over to get the first down, but it would depend

447
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 3: on the circumstance of the game. And you know, two

448
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 3: yards or two first downs is not worth missing two weeks.

449
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 3: So he's just got to be smart about it. He's

450
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 3: such an intense competitor that he can't be his worst enemy.

451
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 3: And he's just got to you know, if he's running

452
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: at field and he's picked up the first down, the

453
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 3: linebacker's running out, get down. If he thinks he has

454
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: the angle on the linebacker and he hasn't got the

455
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: first down yet.

456
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: Go for it.

457
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: But be smart and be safe, because you don't do

458
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: your team any good in the blue tent. And I

459
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 3: don't think Harbor is the kind of coach that's going

460
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: to try to fetch him out of the blue tent,

461
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: right table did.

462
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Harbo doesn't let a coach a mobile quarterback though,

463
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: and so does Great Roman, and so does Matt Nagge.

464
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: So though, that's the guy will know how to strength.

465
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't men interrupt you there before you move

466
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 3: onto the Hall of Fame thing my overall out valuation

467
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 3: of Dart and I'm one of the few who have

468
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: been around to see this in the media. He reminds

469
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: me exactly of Phil Simms in nineteen seventy nine, both

470
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: from Phil walking into the locker room and once he

471
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 3: started playing, I think it was the fifth game of

472
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: the season, the players just gravitated towards him. He was

473
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: like a magnet. The offensive lineman loved him. He went

474
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: and lifted with him at seven o'clock in the morning

475
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 3: because he knew in order to succeed, those guys had

476
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 3: to have his back. And you know, he took care

477
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: of his linemen. And I I'm not around like I was,

478
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 3: you know, earlier in my career, but everything I know

479
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: about Dart, the players in the locker room love him,

480
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: and I think that's such an important part of this.

481
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 3: And then just as far as this, he can make

482
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: every throw does he throw like l No, nobody throws

483
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 3: it like Elway? Did he throws it fine? And he

484
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: can he can fit into tight windows. And I think

485
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 3: with really now, I think David did a good job

486
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 3: with them. So I'm not going to say he needs

487
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 3: good coaching because I think he had it. But with

488
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: the coaches that Harball is brought in, including Harball himself,

489
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 3: because you know he's he won a Super Bowl with

490
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 3: Flaco and had a two time Super Bowl MV I

491
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 3: mean a two time NFL MVP. Lamar Jackson. There couldn't

492
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 3: be two quarterbacks any different than those two guys. And

493
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: I think Dart is sort of a cross of those

494
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: two in that he can throw it from the pocket

495
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: like Flaco, and he can run it. Not as well

496
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: as Lamar because he's the best running quarterback in NFL history,

497
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 3: but he can run it. I mean, he's obviously more

498
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: mobile than ninety percent or seventy five percent of the

499
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 3: quarterbacks in the league. So I think John knows what

500
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: it looks like to be successful, and so he's going

501
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: to get some really good coaching this year, and I

502
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 3: look for him to make a jump, assuming that they

503
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: improve the personnel around him, because I mean, John, you

504
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: know better than me they had hit no one throw

505
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 3: the ball to at the end of the season if

506
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: Darius Slayton. No knock on Darius, but you know he's

507
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 3: not a one, he's not a two. You know, he's

508
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,479
Speaker 3: a nice guy you can throw in there when you're

509
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 3: playing four wides. You don't want to be counting on

510
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 3: him as your number one guy. And you know, if

511
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: they get Neighbors back, either by the start of the

512
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 3: season or early and they can add to that wide

513
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: receiver room, maybe they take a guy like Cornell Tape

514
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: from Ohio State, you know, with a fifth pick in

515
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 3: the draft. I like what I saw of him last year,

516
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 3: So I think Dart's got a tremendous amount of ability

517
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 3: and certainly will have a great opportunity to grow with

518
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 3: this coaching staff.

519
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: John's on the podcast brought to you by Citizens, the

520
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: official bank of the Giants, from game day celebrations to

521
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: your everyday financial needs, Big Blue Fans, and you get

522
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 1: the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn more

523
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: at citizensbank dot com slash Giants. All right, Gary, let's

524
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: move on to the Hall of Fame. We saw who

525
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: got in this year. There was no Eli Manning on

526
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: this list, and we knew there was gonna be no

527
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: Tom Coffin on the list, and there was no Crawlbanks

528
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: on the list. We're gonna touch on all three of

529
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: those guys, but first, I want to talk about the

530
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: process first. Right, there's been a lot of controversy about

531
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick not getting in, Robert Kraft not getting in,

532
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: and I know you can't talk about what the meetings

533
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: were like and go behind the current.

534
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: The whole thing doesn't want you guys doing that. But

535
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: do you think this was more a.

536
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: Result based on the individuals or was it a result

537
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: based on the process that these individuals are put through

538
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: with how the votes had that we split up between

539
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: the contributor, the coach.

540
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: And then the veteran players, and how only you know

541
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: one of that five group can get in.

542
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would say the major part of

543
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: this was the process because if you remember in the past,

544
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: we'd have a coach in one category picked by the subcommittee,

545
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: a contributor picked by subcommittee, and three seniors picked by

546
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: a different subcommittee. And then when we would get to

547
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: the main meeting in January, we'd vote on the coach,

548
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: yes or no, get eighty percent you're in. We vote

549
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: on the contributor, yes or no, eighty percent you're in.

550
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: The three seniors we vote on them all individually. They're

551
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 3: not competing against each other because all three can get

552
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: in and yes or no. If that was the process

553
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: this year, I think all five would have gotten in.

554
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: All five really right, because Wow, there.

555
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: Wouldn't have been a limit because if Belichick got in,

556
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: why would that mean that el C. Greenwood couldn't get in?

557
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Because they're on a different ballot.

558
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: One had nothing to do with the other in the past.

559
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: So what happened is that they wanted to make it

560
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: harder to get in because Deon Sanders complained a few

561
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: years ago that it was getting too easy and they

562
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 3: should have two floors in the Hall of Fame, one

563
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: for the truly elite players, which included themselves in of course,

564
00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 3: shocking yeah, and then another floor for everybody else. And

565
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: then some other Hall of famers stood up and said, yeah,

566
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: it's getting too easy. So what the Hall of Fame

567
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: did was they took those five three seniors to coach

568
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 3: and the contributor, and they said okay, because all came

569
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: out of subcommittees like they had in the past, but

570
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: instead of being voted on individually, they said, you can

571
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: only vote for three. Now. On the other side, with

572
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: the modern era candidates, we used to vote from fifteen

573
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 3: to ten to five, and then we get to the

574
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: five vote on each one individually, yes or no, you

575
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: get eighty percent, you're in. They weren't once you got

576
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: to five. They weren't competing against each other for votes. Well,

577
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: they changed it because they wanted it to be harder.

578
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: We went from fifteen to ten to seven and then

579
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: once we got to seven, they said vote for five.

580
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: So the end result is they knocked each other off.

581
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 3: Last year, which was the first year that we did

582
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 3: this this way, we got three modern era candidates, and

583
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: we always used to get five. We got one senior

584
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: in when we used to get three seniors, a coach,

585
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: and a contributor. In last year we just got the

586
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: one senior, which was Stirling Sharp, and this year we

587
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: just got the one senior, which is Roger Craig. So

588
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: to answer your question, if we were voting under this

589
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: under the old process, I really have a hard time

590
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: believing that the women eleven knows on Belichick or Craft

591
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: because of the two voters who have come out to

592
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: explain why they voted no, said they don't feel they

593
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: voted against Belichick, they just didn't vote for him, which

594
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: you know is word solid right there. But the guy

595
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: in Kansas City who said he didn't vote for him

596
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: said he looked at the seniors and said, this is

597
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: probably their last chance, which is probably right because it's

598
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: so hard to emerge from the senior category as the

599
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: finalists because there's just so many guys. So you get

600
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: to be one of the three, you don't make it.

601
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: I'm not saying you go to the back of the line,

602
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: but some other guys might jump ahead of you. But

603
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: the foul seeing that argument, John, is if you didn't

604
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: vote for Belichick this year because you wanted Greenway, Kenny Anderson,

605
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: Roger Craig to get in had and only Craig got in.

606
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: And we'll assume that Greenwood and Anderson won't be finalists

607
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: next year, but there'll be three other finalists. So this

608
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: as you say, next year, I'm not going to vote

609
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: for Belichick because the three senior finalists may never have

610
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: another opportunity. That's gonna happen every year. If you're consistent

611
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: in how you're voting, I'm not voting for Belichick because

612
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: these seniors are never going to have another chance. But

613
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: that's not the way we're supposed to vote. You're supposed

614
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: to vote for the three that you think are most

615
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: worthy of being in the Hall of Fame, regardless of

616
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: the category. They group those five together. So we're going

617
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: to have a meeting in like two or three weeks,

618
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: and in the past when we've had our follow up meeting,

619
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: it's been about, you know, sixty seventy percent attendance of

620
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: the fifty voters. I guarantee everybody shows up this year

621
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: because everybody wants to have a say so. But I

622
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: don't think they're going to change the process.

623
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: Who decides the process? Do the voters? Do you guys

624
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: decide it? Does the Hall of Fame do it? How

625
00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: does that process get the term?

626
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: Well, they consulted with a couple of voters. I wasn't asked.

627
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: I've consulted with them on diff different issues. But it's

628
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: the Board of Directors of the Hall of Fame, and

629
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: I don't know who those people are. And I would

630
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: imagine that Jim Porter who runs the Hall of Fame,

631
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: and maybe his group might have come up with the

632
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 3: idea and then the Board of Directors had to pass it,

633
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: or maybe the the board directors came up with the idea.

634
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: But the one thing you're going to tell us is

635
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: that prior to twenty fifteen, the coach and the contributors

636
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: were grouped with the modern era candidates. Then we broke

637
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 3: them out starting in twenty fifteen, So they get to say, well,

638
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: what's the problem. In the past, we were able to

639
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: vote coach and contributors in as they competed against modern era.

640
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: So why are you saying that they can't emerge from

641
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: this vote going against three seniors. I mean, that does

642
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: make some sense from their point of view. My feeling

643
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: is we have such a backlog of worthy candidates that

644
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: all the like in the Belichick case, you know, I

645
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: want to be able to argue for Coughlin, but he's

646
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: got to come out of the coaches committee first as

647
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: the finalist, and he hasn't done that. And now, so

648
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: what happens, Belichick will be the candidate again next year.

649
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: I mean I'm ninety nine percent sure that. And then

650
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: you have Holmgren, who last year was the finalist and

651
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: didn't get in. Yet Mike Shanahan deserves to get in.

652
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: All that's happened now by keeping Belichick out is we

653
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: delayed the other guys having a shot at this because

654
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: you just have to think, after what happened this year,

655
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 3: that Belichick will be the coaching finalist again next year.

656
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 3: I know that was a really long explanation, but hopefully

657
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: I answered a bunch of those questions.

658
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: No, you did, and look and then you beat me

659
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: to the punch. Gary.

660
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: That was going to be my big beef here is

661
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: that you're pushing all these guys back. I thought Holmegrin

662
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: should have gone in last year, and Coughlin's deserving, Mike

663
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: Shannahan deserving, and now these guys all have to wait.

664
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not trying to, you know, be dooming

665
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: gloom here. These aren't young guys either, right, I mean,

666
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: you don't want to wait too long. I mean, look

667
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: what happened with Dan Reeves, who I think you can

668
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: argue was a you know, deserving guy that could have

669
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: gotten the Hall of Fame.

670
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: Now he's passed away, you know what I mean. So

671
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: this is it's it's it's a very tough situation.

672
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: And I do wonder if at some point they have

673
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: one year where they say, all right, we're gonna give

674
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: you a group of five. You can do up and

675
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: down votes on all of them, and do it that

676
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: way just for coaches or something like that, because I

677
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: do think that, especially when it comes to the coach

678
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: and to a lesser extent than contributor category, unlike the players,

679
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: there is a significant backlog that needs to be cleared

680
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: out so these guys don't have to keep waiting.

681
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: No, I agree with that, you know, in a centennial

682
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: class in twenty twenty, and I was on that committee.

683
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: We were allowed to put ten seniors in, and the

684
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: idea really.

685
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: Was to.

686
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: Not just put the seat the most recent seniors in,

687
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: but they wanted us to go back and put guys

688
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: from the thirties and the forties and fifties who got

689
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 3: passed over because the Hall of Fame didn't come into

690
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: being until the early sixties. You know, guys in the

691
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: forties and nobody had seen him play, but they weren't

692
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: explicit about that, and we wound up putting in a

693
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: lot of seniors who really shouldn't have been considered under

694
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: the premise of let's clean up the thirties, forties and fifties.

695
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: For example, Jimbo Covit got in, who is a fine

696
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 3: player for the Bears, but you know, you have to say,

697
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: I don't know how many years he had been in

698
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 3: the senior category, but it probably wasn't a lot, as

699
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: opposed to some of these other guys that were on

700
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: the ballot that they I think that they expanded it

701
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: for us to try to get those guys in it,

702
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: and it didn't happen that way. So I don't think.

703
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 3: I don't envision them saying, Okay, this is a cleanup year.

704
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: We're going to give you five seniors, three coaches, and

705
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 3: three contributors that you can put it in any one year.

706
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: They're trying to make it harder, John, They're not trying

707
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 3: to make it easier. So they're not apologizing for any

708
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: of this stuff. I've how the process is working. I

709
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: can tell you this. I'm sure the Hall of Fame

710
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 3: is not happy about Belichick not getting in because it's

711
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: a bad reflection on the committee. And the other thing

712
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: I was thinking about the other day is that. And

713
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: I know there are some voters who didn't vote for

714
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: him because the spygate. Now, if they're not voting for

715
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: him this year because the spygate, they're saying we're going

716
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: to punish him for a year and not let them

717
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 3: have the honor of being a first ballot Hall of Famer.

718
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 3: Or are they saying the Hall of Fame stands for

719
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 3: the honor integrity of the league, of the league, and

720
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: that's what the Hall of Fame is supposed to be about. Well,

721
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: if you feel that way and didn't vote for Belichick

722
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 3: this year, you should never vote for him because that's

723
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: not changing and if you're punishing him for a year,

724
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 3: that's not our responsibility. That's not your job is to

725
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: say I'm going to punish them. I mean, these people

726
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: come up with some of these voters come off as

727
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: holier than that, and it drives me nuts. But their

728
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: vote counts the same as anybody else's. And when you

729
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: think about it, you got a room of fifty people.

730
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: They're asking us to pick three out of five. And

731
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: how am I comparing Robert Kraft's career to Roger Craig? Right?

732
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, it doesn't It doesn't make a

733
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 3: lot of sense except the Hall of Famous thing. We've

734
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: done that in the past, so why can't we do

735
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: it now.

736
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: If you want to know how to manage two minutes

737
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 2: of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're

738
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk

739
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: to citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care.

740
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: I'd like to learn about a molliar team.

741
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I knew I could help makes sense of your

742
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: money with citizens.

743
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: So before we get to the elephant in the room,

744
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: and that's Eli, You've been talking a lot about the

745
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: older player category. I think Carl Banks is a very

746
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: similar resume to Roger Craig Gary. You know, neither one

747
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: has a ton of prole and all pros. So they

748
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: led the league and all these categories. But they were

749
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: both on the old decade eighties team. They both won

750
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: a ton and they were really important cogs in terms

751
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: of how their teams won games. Where do you think

752
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: we stand with call here? And do you think he

753
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: might emerge sometime soon from this veteran category and have

754
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: a real chance of getting in?

755
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? You know, I was on the Senior Committee for

756
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: five years. I fought really hard for Carl. Last year.

757
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: They we had three subcommittees, like I've told you, Coach,

758
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: Contributor and Seniors. Nine on each committee. So that's twenty

759
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 3: seven and we have fifty four voters. They almost completely

760
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: turned over every committee this year. Oh wow, So I

761
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 3: wasn't even on a subcommittee this year. I would have

762
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 3: liked to remain on the Senior Committee. I'll probably be

763
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: on a committee next year this coming class, because they

764
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 3: get rotated again, but I don't know that I'll wind

765
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 3: up on the Senior Committee. And that's where I really feel.

766
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: I have some guys I want to advocate for. I mean,

767
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: Carl Banks, and Everson Walls are my two guys really

768
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: want to fight for. But I'm encouraged for Carl in

769
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 3: the sense of Roger Craig getting in and Elsie green

770
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: Would making it as a finalist, because Craig had never

771
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 3: gotten that far before Elsie green would. In the years

772
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 3: that I was on the Senior committee, we never talked

773
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: about him. You know, we get nine guys to talk

774
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: about when we have our meeting, and Carl hasn't made

775
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 3: it that far ever since made it there a couple

776
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: of times. Greenwood never made it when I was there.

777
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 3: So I'm encouraged by Craig getting in kind of climbing

778
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: out of nowhere, and I'm going to really work hard

779
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: on convincing the voters about Carl.

780
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: You know.

781
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: The interesting about Craig now I saw his whole career.

782
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 3: He was a great player. I mean, first thousand thousand

783
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: guy was a key player. I thought the forty nine

784
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: ers best team was in nineteen eighty four, which is

785
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 3: the year before Jerry Rice got there. That was the

786
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 3: year they beat the Memorino and shul in the Super

787
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: Bowl by twenty two points and Craig terrific. But the

788
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers had a chance to make history in

789
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety against the Giants in an NFC Championship game

790
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: by three peating, because if they'd beaten the Giants, they

791
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: would have beaten the Bills the next week. And Craig

792
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 3: fumbled when they're trying to run out the clock and

793
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: Giants went and kicked a winning field goal.

794
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: I think it was Eric Eric Howard.

795
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: Right. That never came up in the meeting this year.

796
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: I was going to say it. I don't like really

797
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 3: saying anything really negative about it. You know, he waited

798
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 3: so long, and I can see the momentum was going

799
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: in his favor till at least a lot of people

800
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 3: vote for him. And I didn't say, oh, wait a minute,

801
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: the guy prevented him from three peating because there were

802
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: a lot of plays in that game. I mean, giantson

803
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: score a touchdown and they still won the game. So

804
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: that bar, Yeah, you can blame you know, Montana, you know,

805
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: not putting up one thirteen points in that game. So

806
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 3: but when you think, I think he asked forty nine

807
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: fans about Roger Craig, those who have watched him, you know,

808
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 3: for forty years or whatever, they guess say he's a

809
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: great player, but he cost them a chance to three peat.

810
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 3: Let's get the Yeah, I was just gonna say so,

811
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: I'm totally on board with you, Carl, great player, overshadowed

812
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: by LT. Harry Carson was only there for the first

813
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 3: of those two Super Bowls, and I would was Elt

814
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 3: would have been great under any circumstances. But he's even

815
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: better than that because of Carl. Carl told them way

816
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: to line up. Carl was the glue of that defense.

817
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and and hopefully that that gets done.

818
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to ELI here. Gary, first and foremost,

819
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. I think this will impact

820
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: ELI moving forward. If you didn't have the new rules

821
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: this year, and you would upper down votes on on

822
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: all seven of the modern day guys, how many you

823
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: think would have gone in when we had like Darren

824
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: Woodson gain In or Jason Witten or Eli or any

825
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: of the other guys that were also on the ballot

826
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: this year, in addition to the guys that did get in.

827
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: Well, it wouldn't have been seven. It would have been five.

828
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: Five, I'm sorry, five right right?

829
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, because he he wouldn't have made the cut

830
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: to five based on the voting that took place, he

831
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: wouldn't have gotten that far because he didn't get that far.

832
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: He didn't make it to the seven. So the process

833
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with Eli. The voters had something

834
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: to do with Eli. And you know, sometimes I feel

835
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: like I'm banging my head against the wall in that

836
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: meeting room, Like what else do you want from the guy?

837
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: I mean, would do a few things that I the

838
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: points that I made. They say, Okay, he's had one

839
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 3: hundred and seven. His record was one hundred and seventeen.

840
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: One hundred and seventeen. Numbers don't lie. But if I

841
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: say to you, John Eli decided after he won the

842
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: second Super Bowl MVP, you know what, I've gotten everything

843
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 3: out of this game that can possibly want. I'm retiring.

844
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: You know what His record was regular season after eight years,

845
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,479
Speaker 3: sixty nine fifty nineteen games, over five hundred. Dan Fous

846
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: was right around five hundred. Never got to a Super Bowl.

847
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 3: Warren Moon was right around five hundred, never got past

848
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: the division around to the playoffs. They were first, They

849
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: were both first ballot Hall of Famers. Then the art

850
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 3: argument is, well, the defense carried Elai both of Super

851
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: Bowl years. Well, you know that's not true. And I

852
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: know that's not true. I know they played out of

853
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 3: their minds against New England in the first Super Bowl.

854
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: But how much of the effectiveness of that defensive line

855
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 3: had to do with the fact that Brady was coming

856
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 3: off a really nobody talks about this anymore, but Brady

857
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: was in a walking boot between the AFC Championship Game

858
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: and the Super Bowl that year, and Spag's had a

859
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: great game plan of rushing him off the middle because

860
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 3: you know knew it wasn't he's not mobile to begin with,

861
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: but he's even less mobile, and you know, they were

862
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: in his face the whole game. So defense did play great,

863
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: but the twenty eleven defense wasn't great. The Giants were

864
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: not great teams either one of those years. They were

865
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: ten and six and nine and seven in the regular season.

866
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: Eli played great in both playoff runs. So they want

867
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 3: to say, well, the defense carried them. I said, well, okay,

868
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,959
Speaker 3: if you're taking a credit away from Eli but giving

869
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 3: the credit to the defense, then why are you blaming

870
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: Eli for being nineteen games under five hundred over the

871
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: last games of eight seasons of his career, giving him

872
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: no credit for the championships but blaming him for the losses.

873
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: I said, you can't have it both ways. It's a

874
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: cliche now, but they will move on the goalpost right

875
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 3: in that room. I don't know how they fit the

876
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: goal post in the room, but they were moving them

877
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 3: on Eli. And then the last thing they said was,

878
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: well he didn't make first team All Pro. He did

879
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: never get any All Pro votes. One hundred percent true

880
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 3: for the entirety of Eli's career. And I was a

881
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: voter on the AP, which is the one that everybody

882
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: pays attention to. We only voted first team in those years.

883
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 3: Now they vote for first and second team, so a

884
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: lot more players to get votes. It just makes sense

885
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 3: if we say Eli really had a fourteen year career,

886
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: that should be judged because we started seven games as

887
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: a rookie, and it was three or four games in

888
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: Daniel Jones's rookie year, to say we're looking at the

889
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: fourteen years two thousand and five to two thousand and eighteen,

890
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 3: John in ten of the fourteen years, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,

891
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: and Aaron Rodgers were first team All Pro. Nobody would

892
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 3: say Eli was a better player in any of those

893
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 3: years that those guys were first team All Pro.

894
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: Now, by the way, you'd even mentioned Drew Brees, who

895
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: was also pretty good in that era.

896
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: Right, he was first Team All Pro in your two

897
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 3: thousand and nine Super Bowl year. So that's eleven out

898
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: of fourteen with those guys, and then I think Matt

899
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: Ryan one year, Cam Newton one year, and Escaping who was.

900
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 2: He farv did? Did farbe get a one year? Maybe

901
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: when he was in my career?

902
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

903
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: Or yeah? One of those guys.

904
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 3: I mean he lost out too, if you just want

905
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: to limit it to Peyton, Brady, Rogers, and Breeze, and

906
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 3: Breeze is the first ballot Hall of Famer, and that

907
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 3: covered eleven of the fourteen years he lost out to

908
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: a group of quarterbacks that I don't think anybody would

909
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 3: argue we're in the top ten all time. Maybe Breeze

910
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: is just on the outskirts of the top ten, but

911
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: you know, certainly Brady, Peyton, and Rogers the top ten quarterbacks.

912
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 3: So you're saying he wasn't better than any of those

913
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 3: guys in any one of the years, that these guys

914
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: were good enough to be the MVP, And I say,

915
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 3: big freakin' deal. He's got two Super Bowl MVPs. Do

916
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: you think I've raised this question? And I might be

917
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 3: wrong about this, But if he went to Dan Marino

918
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: and you said to him, would you trade careers with

919
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 3: Eli Manning? So nobody has to say that Marino is

920
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: the greatest quarterback ever who's never won a Super Bowl?

921
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: Do you think he would do it? And I don't

922
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: think it's a no brainer that he says no, I

923
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't switch because I got all these other records. I

924
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 3: think it's a big hole in his career that he

925
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 3: didn't make it to a Super Bowl. And I judge

926
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: quarterbacks and coaches by their rings, And I don't get

927
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: the Eli argument. You know, you watch him as much

928
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: as I did. Was he an elite, elite, elite player

929
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 3: like his brother?

930
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: No?

931
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: But he played his best in the biggest two games

932
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 3: of his two biggest games of his life with two

933
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: minute drives to win Super Bowls? As I ended my presentation,

934
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: what else do you want? You know? And so I'm

935
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: hopeful then he'll get in. I think he will get in.

936
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 3: I just don't know what year it's going to be.

937
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: Hopefully soon.

938
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: Do you see a window Gary for you know we

939
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: have Roethlisbury coming up next year. Then Brady obviously is

940
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: coming down the pike too, I know. And if people

941
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: will say, well, why don't you just send two quarterbacks in?

942
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: But I don't think they've ever put two quarterbacks in

943
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: in the same year, right, if I'm not mistaken, you

944
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: would no better than me the history of it.

945
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 3: I'm not positive. But we put Randy moss In and

946
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 3: Terrell Owens in the same year. We put two wide

947
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 3: receivers in the same year, so we can put right,

948
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 3: you know, there's there's no reason we can't put two

949
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: quarterbacks in. You know, I could make a case that

950
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: he deserves to be in ahead of Roethlisberger. I mean,

951
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: Roethlisberger was two to one in the Super Bowls, but

952
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: he was terrible in the game against Seattle, and they

953
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: won that game because the officiating was really poor and

954
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 3: Homegern went nuts after the game. There was some calls

955
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: that went against Seattle that were really horrible. They should

956
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: have won that game. And you know, Ben Ben was

957
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 3: a really, really good player. He was a great player,

958
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: and he always had the stealers in contention, and his

959
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 3: numbers overall probably better than Eli's. But I don't know,

960
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 3: to me, that's a flip of a coin. But like,

961
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: I just think there's Manning fatigue. You know, Peyton and

962
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: Eli are all over the place on every commercial. They

963
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: were to captain of the Pro Bowl games for a

964
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: bunch of years. They do the Manning cast. You know,

965
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 3: Eli played in New York. I think I do think

966
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: there's some New York prejudice because some voters think that

967
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 3: the New Yorkers run the Hall of Fame committee, which

968
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: is ludicrous because it's just me and Rich Simini from

969
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 3: New York on the committee this year. Riches came on

970
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 3: this year, and Glauber dropped off, and then Barry Willner,

971
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: who works for the who worked for the Associated Press.

972
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 3: It was based here, so the very most there's three

973
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: New Yorkers, and Barry is a national guy anyhow, So

974
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 3: I don't get it. You're telling me that Eric Allen

975
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: had a more memorable career than Eli Manning did, and

976
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 3: he meant more to the history of the game than

977
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: Eli Manning did. And I'll just and Eric Allen was

978
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: a really good player, but I'll just tell you you

979
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 3: don't know what you're watching.

980
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: So I know it's hard to put the of a

981
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: window on it.

982
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: Garrett, but you think at some point, maybe not the

983
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: next couple of years, but you think there's a window

984
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: where you do feel confident that Eli can get in.

985
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: Let's just go on the assumption that Roethlisberger gets in

986
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 3: next year, and then Brady obviously is a no brainer

987
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 3: unless people want to hide hold rather the flake Gate

988
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: against something like they held spy get against Belichick. Could

989
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 3: you imagine if we don't put in Tom Brady on

990
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: the first belt, so after that that would be the

991
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: twenty eight right class of twenty eight, and then I

992
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: think there's a window there for him after that, because

993
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: he'll get in before Philip Rivers. If Rivers ever gets in,

994
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: there'll probably be some people there that argue for Rivers

995
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 3: over Eli, but I don't see that happening. And at

996
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: that point, we would have had Eli as a top

997
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 3: fifteen for three four years in a row, and I

998
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 3: think at that point, hopefully the momentum is built for

999
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: him to get in. I'm not rolling out next year.

1000
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: It's just I would have liked to see him get

1001
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: a little further in the process this year. Although the

1002
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 3: conversation was definitely more positive about Eli this year than

1003
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 3: it was last year.

1004
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: Good to know I'm trying to scroll through the old

1005
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: pro teams each year and try to find who the

1006
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: other first team All Pro. Oh yeah, I don't having

1007
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,959
Speaker 1: trouble fight that. I'm trying to find the guy. There's

1008
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: a lot of Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's in there, Gary,

1009
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: let me tell you. Yeah, yeah, oh Man, Gary, I

1010
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Man. Anything else that you want to hit

1011
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: on form you the Hall of Fame stuff, the Harba stuff,

1012
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: the Giants, the league, anything you have on your mind,

1013
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: you know, moving forward here for the Giants, that that

1014
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: you think is a pertinent tip before we say goodbye.

1015
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just really probably more curious to see what

1016
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 3: happens with the Giants during the off season. And I've

1017
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 3: been in a very long time because they're really taking

1018
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: a different path here now. Ever, since George Jong was

1019
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 3: hired in nineteen seventy nine, it's been a GM driven

1020
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: organization and now it's a coach driven organization. And what

1021
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 3: the Giants were doing wasn't working. So I give them

1022
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 3: credit for realizing that and realizing they had the right guy.

1023
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 3: They wouldn't have done this fairy about it for anybody

1024
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 3: or everybody. It took the right person for them to say,

1025
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: let's try it a different way. And you know, John's

1026
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 3: never had final say, I do want I got one

1027
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 3: good at a good hardbor anecdote for you. So after

1028
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 3: every season in Baltimore, whenever they were eliminated, he'd go

1029
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: to Ozzie Knewsome when he was a GM, or Eric

1030
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 3: Tacosta when he was a GM, and he said, give

1031
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 3: me the tape and the names of the top one

1032
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: hundred college players, and I want to start grinding on them.

1033
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 3: And they would say, John, he just went through a

1034
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: long season, take a couple of weeks off, come back,

1035
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: and I'm doing it now, give it to me. He'd

1036
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 3: finish that and he'd say, give me the tape of

1037
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 3: the top fifty free agents, and he grinds his way

1038
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 3: through that. And although he didn't have final say in

1039
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 3: a draft room, I was told that his voice was

1040
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 3: very much heard same way in free agency because even

1041
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 3: though Ozzie and then DaCosta had final say, they had

1042
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 3: so much respect for John that you know, I won't

1043
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 3: say the tie one to Harball like it will now,

1044
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 3: but certainly everything he said they took very seriously. And

1045
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: now that he does, although they haven't come right out

1046
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 3: and say it say it, but he does have final

1047
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 3: say and he should. You know, his general manager is

1048
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 3: sixteen or seventeen years younger than him, and he's much

1049
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 3: more accomplished than Joe Shane. But I think they will

1050
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,959
Speaker 3: work collaboratively, and I think John is sincere and saying

1051
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 3: that he does like Joe, and they built up a

1052
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: good relationship so far. I think they will work together.

1053
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 3: But if John wants to go one, John wants a

1054
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: wide receiver at number five, and Shane said I want

1055
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 3: a linebacker, they got to take a wide receiver and

1056
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 3: it should be that way. But I'm just really curious

1057
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 3: to see. I know the Giants will have more money

1058
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: cap money next year than this year, but I always

1059
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: think the cap is you can play with numbers anyway

1060
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 3: you wantle, Yeah exactly. I mean they don't have one

1061
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars like some teams, but they can create

1062
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 3: cap space in a second. So I'm just really serious.

1063
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: I'm really curious to see the type of players that

1064
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: he brings in and if they fit the mold that

1065
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 3: I kind of described here earlier. You know, physical players

1066
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: who can impose their will you know that where the

1067
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: opponent down in the fourth quarter and close out games,

1068
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 3: because that's what he tried. That's what they tried to

1069
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: do in Baltimore, and they were other than a couple

1070
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 3: of bad years there, they were consistently a very good team,

1071
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 3: really really good. And I would say, you know, the

1072
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 3: the negative mark on Harbaugh is never getting through Super

1073
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 3: Bowl with Lamar. But if you go back and look

1074
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: at the level Lamar played in the playoffs versus how

1075
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 3: he played in the regular season, I'm not gonna say

1076
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 3: it was two different players, but he wasn't anywhere near

1077
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 3: the player in the playoffs that he was in the

1078
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: regular season. And if he was, the Ravens won a

1079
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: couple of Super Bowls.

1080
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: Gary, You're awesome. Appreciate the time, my friend. Enjoy the offseason.

1081
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: We'll talk soon, and I'm going to tell your viewers

1082
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 3: once a Giant about that eighty sixteen that's going to

1083
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: be celebrated this year. So I appreciate you having me on.

1084
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: It was always fun talking to.

1085
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: You, ye fans. Make sure you guys cat check out

1086
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 2: that book. That's the GIHNTS.

1087
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: Little podcast was in by the citizens Official Bank of

1088
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: the giants from the Hackensack marity Hell, the podcast, it

1089
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: will keep getting better.

1090
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: For Gary Myers, I'm John Schmelt. We will see you

1091
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 2: next time. Everybody