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Speaker 1: The Around the NFL Podcast is also sixty percent. Gee

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition with you Around the NFL Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Greg Rosenthal. Alongside me here in a virtual room

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Speaker 2: not quite filled with heroes, is Mark Sessler. I'm still

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Speaker 2: in Japan. You're back in la We're making this happen, Mark.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, this show has been a little bit

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Speaker 3: different than others. I'd say right out of the gate

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Speaker 3: because we're starting a little bit later, because what time

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Speaker 3: is it there?

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Speaker 1: It is seven thirty in the morning. Just had to

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Speaker 1: kick my daughter Alis out of our shared bedroom for

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Speaker 1: the for the vacation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 1: I like you in last house.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We try to typically, like we don't overplan shows days

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Speaker 3: in advance. It's kind of like in these six or

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Speaker 3: seven hours before you start a bunch of texting. And

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Speaker 3: so I realized, you know, I had some pressing questions

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Speaker 3: for Greg, and I realized, like, wait a minute, it's

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Speaker 3: like two twelve am, and I'm probably blowing up his phone,

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Speaker 3: and like we never really came indicated until about ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: We did some plans. We got a nice show here

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Speaker 1: considering I think actually the fact we had to plan

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You're right. I think it's a sixteen

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Speaker 1: hour difference, which is very confusing. I'm all the way

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Speaker 1: into Friday morning, your Thursday afternoon, but we're pretty chunky here.

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Speaker 1: We got news, some news. We haven't done a show

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Speaker 1: in I think ten days. Something crazy. I was on

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Speaker 1: the last show. It was a while ago, week and

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Speaker 1: a half ago. Longest. We're quiet all year, and yet

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Speaker 1: there isn't that much news. We've got Jordan Rodrieg who's

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Speaker 1: coming in from the Athletic very shortly, who's going to

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Speaker 1: talk about her great series, Play Callers, great podcast series.

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Speaker 1: But she's got to stick around for our QB ranking.

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Speaker 1: So this is a big show. Like the two QB

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Speaker 1: index writers of the last two years, we've come together

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Speaker 1: and we've combined and made a QB rankings, and then

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Speaker 1: Jordan will just like tell us.

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Speaker 4: Where we're wrong, just tear it apart.

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Speaker 1: I hope, yes, she's cruel. Let's just bring her in

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Speaker 1: instead of just talking about her've had her on many

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Speaker 1: times before. She famously told us, and we all agree

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Speaker 1: that Alan Robinson was going to have a monster year

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Speaker 1: last year. You shouldn't have brought that up right before

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Speaker 1: the show. But she also did a great job on

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Speaker 1: some Monday night football recaps, and more importantly, you just

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Speaker 1: did a bang up job on this podcast series about

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Speaker 1: the Kyle Shanahan Coaching Tree, which you can check out

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Speaker 1: on all your podcasts distributors. The play callers welcome Jordan.

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Speaker 5: Guys. Thank you so much for having me. It's great

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Speaker 5: to see you guys in our in our respective virtual

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Speaker 5: rooms here. I think Mark and I are kind of

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Speaker 5: winning here, Greg, but respect Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, I see you. Yeah. It looks like I'm

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Speaker 1: in a prison cellar or something like that. If you

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Speaker 1: want to check us out on YouTube, youtally need to.

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Speaker 5: I was gonna say asylum maybe, but.

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Speaker 1: Well, on the other side of the room, it's all

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Speaker 1: it's all filled up. We got pictures, we got we

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Speaker 1: got things. But yeah, it's it's a little spartan here

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Speaker 1: in Japan. I'm wrapping up three plus weeks here and

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Speaker 1: I'll be back. We've got our NFL summit next week.

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Speaker 1: We've got right back to regular shows pretty soon. But

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Speaker 1: should we just jump into the news right away? I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 4: First of fifteen, yes, to talk about your block Park

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Speaker 4: is sixty.

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Speaker 1: But they get.

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Speaker 4: Williams to the five.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could tell it's at seven thirty in

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Speaker 1: the morning with that transition into the news, I'm coming

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Speaker 1: out slow. Quentin Williams did not finish last season slow

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Speaker 1: four years, ninety four million dollars on his extension. According

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Speaker 1: to our guy, the Pell raiser, Tom Pelasero, he gets

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Speaker 1: an extension. I'm glad this happened because virtually no news

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Speaker 1: happened over the last week and a half. We picked

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Speaker 1: the perfect time to go quiet. We've been around mark,

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Speaker 1: but the Jets get an important piece of business done

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Speaker 1: before training came.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think most people expected this to happen

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Speaker 3: before camp. You know, there was a little bit of

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Speaker 3: friction there after Jeffrey Simmons signed and there was just like,

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Speaker 3: will the Jets do this? But this was one of

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Speaker 3: the most dominant defensive players of the year a season ago,

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Speaker 3: and I think one thing that I thought about with

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Speaker 3: him was that the year before, in Robert Sala's defense,

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Speaker 3: he had come off a foot injury and barely had

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Speaker 3: any offseason. And so players talked about last training camp

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Speaker 3: like Quinn Williams just looks different, he feels different, and

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Speaker 3: you could feel something in the works and that's exactly

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Speaker 3: what happened. And you know it was mid season when Baldy,

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Speaker 3: our guy Baldi basically said, this is the most terror

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Speaker 3: reaking player in the league right now. And Jordan, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you have a dominant defensive tackle, it can change everything.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I am familiar with the concept of a total

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Speaker 5: star defensive tackle, but yeah, the one thing that's really

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Speaker 5: cool is this always seemed like not only that it

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Speaker 5: would happen. I mean, of course, you get through contract negotiations,

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Speaker 5: since things come out in the news and then they

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Speaker 5: you know, there's quietness and sometimes you think, oh, could

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Speaker 5: this actually happen. But with Robert Sala, especially the way

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Speaker 5: that he uses Quinn Williams and the impact that he

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Speaker 5: has as an interior defender, especially within that scheme where

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Speaker 5: you have to be able to do multiple things. You

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Speaker 5: have to be able to play more than just single

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Speaker 5: gap assignments, especially for what they're now doing with the

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Speaker 5: coverages behind this front, in that front seven. It's just

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Speaker 5: a no brainer to me, and it's always been a

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Speaker 5: no brainer. And like I harken back to how endearing

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Speaker 5: quinnin Williams kind of seems too. I mean, he's terrifying,

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Speaker 5: but he seems a little you know that remember the

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Speaker 5: sneeze and the bless you, thank you, you know that

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Speaker 5: was such a wonderful moment, and where I think he

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Speaker 5: just like locked into the hearts and minds of many,

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Speaker 5: even outside of the fan base. And it's just to me,

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Speaker 5: it's just it's just a rock star move. And having

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Speaker 5: an interior defender like that, especially, you know, with what

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Speaker 5: makes quarterbacks the most uncomfortable these days, I think it's

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Speaker 5: absolutely crucial.

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Speaker 1: He was so awesome last year and he gets I

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Speaker 1: almost not confuse him in my mind, but there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of similarities between him and Leonard Williams. Taking about

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Speaker 1: the same spot in the draft. Both of them were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this may actually be the best player in the draft

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Speaker 1: if you take out the quarterbacks or you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: and similar ish career trajectories or maybe it didn't start

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Speaker 1: quite as fast as you wanted. Then had a big

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Speaker 1: season and the Jets let Leonard Williams go. I think

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Speaker 1: Quentinn Williams is even better player. It's basically the exact

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Speaker 1: same contract that Jeffrey Simmons got. We haven't seen all

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Speaker 1: the details, but it looks almost identical in terms of

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Speaker 1: the guarantees, the money. It's great. I love that, Jordan.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the biggest weeks of your career.

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Speaker 1: I'm not overstating that, right. I mean, you drop this

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Speaker 1: major thing. You've gotta be frazzled. You've done a lot

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Speaker 1: of media stuff and then we're just throwing you into

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Speaker 1: and we're like, no, we're not going to talk about

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Speaker 1: your show and just have a quick segment on that

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Speaker 1: and have you on for that. We're gonna drop you

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Speaker 1: into like seventy five minutes of deep defensive tackle with

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Speaker 1: the Jets.

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Speaker 4: Talk.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but this is great though. Actually there is a

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Speaker 5: tie because I did interview Robert Sola for this play

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Speaker 5: Caller series, and you know, so the way that he

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Speaker 5: talked about his scheme and the way that his scheme

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Speaker 5: has changed, specifically what they started doing in San Francisco

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Speaker 5: from twenty nineteen onward and then now with the Jets.

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Speaker 5: You see him, and I know we're talking about d Lineman,

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Speaker 5: but like you see him, he's playing more quarters, actual quarters,

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Speaker 5: not just disguised cover three, but like actual quarters. Then

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Speaker 5: he has played or deployed for his entire coaching career,

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Speaker 5: and when you do that, the responsibilities of the defensive lineman,

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Speaker 5: particularly some of those interior guys, changes the onus shifts

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Speaker 5: on them to be able to do more things and

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Speaker 5: disrupt in more types of ways. And again that's why

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Speaker 5: I think this is part of why this is so crucial.

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Speaker 5: It's a home run signing to me, and I think

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Speaker 5: he's just a special, special player.

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Speaker 3: And we'll get into your project after the news. But

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Speaker 3: for Jets fans, you interview a host of individuals and

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Speaker 3: you really get to know them, and Robert Sala I

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Speaker 3: just came out so excited about who he is and

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Speaker 3: how the arc of his career and just I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think like it's a good project, changes how you

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Speaker 3: feel about people, and I think Jets fans would have

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Speaker 3: a lot to learn about their head coach.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting. So Sala is gonna get the one

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Speaker 1: two punch first play callers, that's the big deal. And

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Speaker 1: then after that Hard Knocks, like the country is going

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Speaker 1: to get to know Robert Sala. Well, it's a big

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Speaker 1: summer for Sala. Hard Knocks will.

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Speaker 5: Summer Sala who kind of like that summer Sala.

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Speaker 1: So like it's gonna be jet I mean it's Jet Central.

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Speaker 1: I know listeners to the show, like you guys talk

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Speaker 1: about the Jets loot. Well, the Jets, we're the team

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Speaker 1: of the offseason and they are going to continue to be.

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Speaker 1: HBO is making them do Hard Knocks. That was officially

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Speaker 1: announced since we last talked, and I'm excited. How could

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Speaker 1: you not be excited. Let let's let's play a little

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Speaker 1: clip Eric behind the Glass credit here to CBS News

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Speaker 1: Bay Area. It's Aaron Rodgers.

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Speaker 6: One of the only things I like about Hard Knocks

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Speaker 6: is the voice of God who narrates it, right Lee,

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Speaker 6: I I hope I get to meet him. But look,

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Speaker 6: you know, I understand the appeal with us. See, there's

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Speaker 6: a lot of eyes on me, a lot of eyes

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Speaker 6: on our team, lot of expectations for our squad. So

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Speaker 6: they forced it down our throats and we have to

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Speaker 6: deal with it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, it's it is It stands

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Speaker 3: out really is the only I think it's I'm glad

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Speaker 3: it's them. We were texting about it a little bit

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Speaker 3: yesterday a group of us, and like this was the

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Speaker 3: most logical choice for high drama intrigue. The team that's

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Speaker 3: changed the most this offseason because of Aaron Rodgers and

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Speaker 3: maybe a version of Aaron Rodgers that changes the way

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Speaker 3: we feel about him. But it is also an isolated

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Speaker 3: instance of the team openly not wanting to do it

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Speaker 3: and and they do have you know, full editing control

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Speaker 3: over it. And I just wonder what that means for

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Speaker 3: the project itself, because like, do you do hard boil

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Speaker 3: Aaron Rodgers into some of those Assisians because you've got

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Speaker 3: this great chemistry going with a guy who can be

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Speaker 3: a little bit difficult. Does he want stuff going out

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Speaker 3: there on HBO that he's not approving of?

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Speaker 4: So is he part of that process?

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Speaker 3: I just think it's a little bit different where team

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Speaker 3: just come and lay it all there and they're happy

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Speaker 3: to have the experience. And like Sola from on down

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Speaker 3: just did not sound like he was he was hoping

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Speaker 3: this wouldn't happen. That's an interesting dynamic.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's pretty intrusive, you know. I mean, if you're

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Speaker 5: if you're contending, or you think you're building now to contend,

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't necessarily, I mean, I guess you could even say,

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Speaker 5: like the old thing that we all hate to say

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Speaker 5: all in right, I guess if you're built to legitimately contend.

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Speaker 5: You want the coaching cliche of the main thing being

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Speaker 5: the main thing, right, and so any extra stuff I

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Speaker 5: can understand, I think from a coach or player perspective

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Speaker 5: why that would feel intrusive. But at the same time,

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Speaker 5: like I did think about when I saw this, you know,

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Speaker 5: the Jets organization, their their media team and like their

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Speaker 5: sort of PR media hybrid team, their their content team.

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Speaker 5: They have like a full on studio there, and so

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Speaker 5: I think there are gonna be a lot of people

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Speaker 5: that take a little bit of that pressure off of

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Speaker 5: the players, or it would I would assume so because

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Speaker 5: of the way that they run that operation and the

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Speaker 5: experience they have creating that type of content, just more

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Speaker 5: so on a team level versus a national level. So

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Speaker 5: I feel I feel like there's ways to help, you know,

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Speaker 5: almost like protect from their being distractions or that feeling

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Speaker 5: of intrusiveness.

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Speaker 1: Right, listening to Aaron Rodgers huge eye roll, I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily believe that he feels like, oh no, a huge

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Speaker 1: spot for Aaron Rodgers in this moment of my life.

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Speaker 1: I'm really disappointed about that. Isn't really that big of

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Speaker 1: a distraction. It's always been produced by NFL Films, just

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Speaker 1: owned by the NFL. The teams have always had some

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Speaker 1: measure of control. Some teams seem to don't really care.

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Speaker 1: The Cowboys, for instance, when they've done it, seemed to

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Speaker 1: like when they did all or nothing, they just they

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Speaker 1: just let it fly. And some others you can tell

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Speaker 1: are pretty tightly controlled. And we can say the Jets

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Speaker 1: didn't want it. I mean, the Jets are Woody Johnson,

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Speaker 1: their owner, and I believe he wanted it, and so

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Speaker 1: that's the Jets. I don't this the whole thing of

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Speaker 1: like the the NFL films is making them do it. No,

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Speaker 1: the Jets. At some level the Jets had to agree

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Speaker 1: to do it, and that's ownership. And I buy that

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Speaker 1: that Robert Salad doesn't want to do it, and the coach.

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Speaker 1: Some of the players, I'm sure have mixed feelings or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of extra attention, But I.

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Speaker 3: Don't Aaron Rodt, don't you think that probably ninety three

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Speaker 3: percent of players would would run to do this project.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just a coaching angle, if anything, where

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Speaker 3: there's like, yes, it could it could be. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think back to the Hugh Jackson experience, where Hard

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Speaker 3: Knocks totally unmasked him as a weird leader, a weird

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Speaker 3: dynamic with his own coaching Sephal League. That's when things

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Speaker 3: can go south. I don't think that happens with this

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Speaker 3: coaching staff at all.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 1: I think it makes you look better if if you've

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Speaker 1: got your stuff together. Sometimes it makes fairly incompetent organizations

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Speaker 1: look better. I watched the Arizona Cardinals in season Hard Knocks,

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Speaker 1: and like you would know that they were a total

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Speaker 1: house on fire watching that thing, they looked fine. They

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Speaker 1: actually were pretty likable Vance Joseph and JJ Watt. So

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Speaker 1: I'm excited though that there's gonna be like a lot

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Speaker 1: to go through. I hope uh Dan's doing that Hard

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Speaker 1: Knocks podcast. Do we know that yet? I guess it should?

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Speaker 4: I believe you, No, I think they.

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Speaker 3: I walked in on a meeting where I think that

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Speaker 3: was being discussed. I don't know if I was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be at that meeting.

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Speaker 5: But from Mark Sessler, okay, well, because yeah they did.

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Speaker 1: Him and Colleen did a bang up job last year,

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Speaker 1: and now it's the gen Z. You gotta do it

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Speaker 1: all right. We're going to go through some very short

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Speaker 1: news before getting to the rest of the show, because

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Speaker 1: we got a meety show. We'll start just with running backs.

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Speaker 1: I'll throw these two out together. Alvin Kamara pleaded no

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Speaker 1: contest to a mis demeanor charge that was stemming from

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Speaker 1: that alleged assault he had in Las Vegas last year.

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Speaker 1: It was it's now a misdemeanor. He settled out of

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Speaker 1: court in a civil case. The NFL can now move

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Speaker 1: forward with ever any punishment they want. Seems like this

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Speaker 1: was the best possible outcome for Kamara. And then I'm

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Speaker 1: also going to throw out there that Saquon Barkley is

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Speaker 1: coming close to this franchise tag deadline to sign long

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Speaker 1: term contract, and ESPN's Diana Rassini mentioned week one could

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Speaker 1: be in jeopardy. Why why don't you pick one of

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Speaker 1: those two, Jordan and tell me what you think.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually I covered Sakwon Barkley in college, so

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Speaker 5: I'll pick I'll pick Sekwon Barkley here. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 5: obviously this is a part of it, right, Things get

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Speaker 5: tenser and tenser as the deadline approaches. You know, I

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Speaker 5: I really I remember the show you guys did several

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Speaker 5: weeks ago about running backs, the history of like running backs,

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Speaker 5: holding out and what could actually mean to to your career.

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Speaker 1: I just always try to butter us up. Say, and

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Speaker 1: you listen to some recent show I do.

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Speaker 6: I love you.

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Speaker 5: I love this show. You guys, don't you have no idea?

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Speaker 5: Like it's a I listened. I've listened to every episode.

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Speaker 1: Is glowing right now. I mean I haven't seen Margan

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and he's his summer glowing is

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Speaker 1: just getting better and better. So you should.

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Speaker 4: I just I believe that that she does listen.

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Speaker 3: I think there's enough proof and enough ever, this is

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Speaker 3: a trusty reporter, so I'll take her out a word.

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Speaker 1: Right, you you definitely listen a lot because you know

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Speaker 1: that we especially me in repped you in the middle

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Speaker 1: of your point. Sorry about that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I handle it so well, you know, like

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Speaker 5: because because I'm ready for it. Yeah. I actually have

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Speaker 5: a little timer that I reset every single time. Greg.

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Speaker 5: But but yeah, no, I think you know, there's it's

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Speaker 5: hard to know who has more leverage here. Obviously that

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Speaker 5: offense is so so so dynamic with him in it.

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Speaker 5: It can be so much more multiple with him in it.

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Speaker 5: You know, thread of the run, even an adequate to

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Speaker 5: above average run game is so significant to how other

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Speaker 5: teams will defend you. But this is kind of part

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Speaker 5: of it, right, I mean, I I think we're just

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Speaker 5: going to keep Some of these tensions will spill out

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Speaker 5: a little bit, or I don't even want to call

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Speaker 5: it tensions, because this is just a part of the

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Speaker 5: negotiation process. You'll hear little drips and drabs start to

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Speaker 5: leak out from from really well established and trustworthy you know,

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Speaker 5: national reporters, and you know I don't. For me, I'm

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Speaker 5: not obviously on the ground reporting on this sitchuation, but

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Speaker 5: I think it is a complicated conversation. You think about

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Speaker 5: where running back contracts are right now, where the quote

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Speaker 5: unquote life span of a career of a running back

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Speaker 5: is right now. But you also think, hey, if you

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Speaker 5: think your team might be better than you maybe than

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Speaker 5: they were, or you think your team might be ready

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Speaker 5: to try to really make something happen here or start

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Speaker 5: to put something together, and Brian Dable really coach that

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Speaker 5: group up last year, and if you think there's a

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Speaker 5: chance you could keep that momentum rolling, Oftentimes organizations will

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Speaker 5: maybe forsake some of that market logic. We saw the

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Speaker 5: Rams do it like over and over and over again

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Speaker 5: in their quest to win a Super Bowl, and sometimes

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Speaker 5: the market logic gets a little bit forsaken if it means,

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Speaker 5: you know, you think you can keep that forward progress

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Speaker 5: rolling and really build a team that can at least

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Speaker 5: contend in the postseason.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think.

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Speaker 3: People also saw the Cowboys do it with Ezekiel Elliott,

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Speaker 3: which is a bit of a cautionary tale on that front.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's only two running backs right now making

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Speaker 3: over fourteen million a year, and one of them is

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Speaker 3: Christian McCaffrey, who is an absolute difference maker when he's available,

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Speaker 3: and the other is Alvin Kamara, who probably will not

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Speaker 3: be available for a big chunk of this to start

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Speaker 3: the season because what happened with him is on video,

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Speaker 3: and I do wonder I'm eyeing to see how long

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Speaker 3: with the end of how they handle that, how long

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Speaker 3: a suspension might be. I mean, this is someone they

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Speaker 3: knocked a group. He and his he and his cadre

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Speaker 3: knocked a man unconscious and broke his like orbital bone,

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Speaker 3: and it's on video, so I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we've had we've had a string of suspensions where in

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Speaker 3: the past couple years where you just don't know what

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Speaker 3: the NFL is gonna do. I would I would guess

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Speaker 3: it would be something like six weeks. Greg, I don't

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Speaker 3: know what you'd think, but it just seems like when

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Speaker 3: there's a video attached, it grows in severity. It's hard

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Speaker 3: to shake those images. And I don't know it's big

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Speaker 3: for the Saints. They're lucky that he's not the only

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Speaker 3: running back that could start.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they drafted one in the in the third round,

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Speaker 1: kind of a through down type of back. We'll see.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what the suspension will be for him,

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Speaker 1: and I don't believe for a second that Sakoon Barkley

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Speaker 1: would meet miss week one. I tend to think Kamara's

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Speaker 1: suspension won't be that long, but we've learned guessing suspensions

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Speaker 1: is almost impossible. Let's wrap it up with a couple

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Speaker 1: random stories. I thought it was interesting the Germany Games.

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Speaker 1: Not a huge surprise, but there was something like there

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Speaker 1: were hundreds of thousands of people waiting to buy those

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Speaker 1: tickets and it's sold out in an instant. I am

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Speaker 1: really excited for those Germany games. This here. Don't know

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Speaker 1: if there's a chance we would be going. I hope

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Speaker 1: we could go to either London or Germany. We'd be

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Speaker 1: happy to do either. It would be great. Germany is

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Speaker 1: my dad's homeland. But we'll see. And then finally, Mark,

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Speaker 1: you wanted this story, and I love it when you

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Speaker 1: dive deep into the news, the important stuff and want

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Speaker 1: something mentioned. So I will let you take the floor

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Speaker 1: on the huge news that Sam Darnald was living in

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Speaker 1: George Kittle's poolhouse. I believe for a short time when

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Speaker 1: he when he joined the team and started OTAs and

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Speaker 1: I believe he was on pardon my take, and talked

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Speaker 1: about that there was some supernatural energies he was he

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Speaker 1: was picking up in that poolhouse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he basically described, you know, I think it is

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Speaker 3: like a new player in town staying in Kittle's pool

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Speaker 3: house for a stretch of time, and that uh one.

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Speaker 4: I'll read his quote here.

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Speaker 3: He said, I've never had anything like this happened to

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Speaker 3: me before one evening during his stay, he woke up

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Speaker 3: around three in the morning and briefly felt as though

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Speaker 3: he just could he was paralyzed, he could not move,

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Speaker 3: and he said the next night the same thing happened

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Speaker 3: where he was you know, frozen in place, and he

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Speaker 3: kept focusing on this thing in the in the corner

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Speaker 3: of the room, and he sort of described it as

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Speaker 3: the eerie sense of like an apparition. And I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like I've always viewed Sam Darnald as a perfectly nice personality,

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Speaker 3: but a rather milk toast persona. This is a new

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Speaker 3: fold to his experiences in life, and like, you know,

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Speaker 3: they tried to press them to make it a little

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Speaker 3: more wacky than it was. But my whole thing is like,

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Speaker 3: where is George Kittle on this? Like you've got a

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Speaker 3: pool house that apparently has a ghost in it. I

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Speaker 3: just like to dig in more on the whole situation.

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Speaker 5: My first thought was like, oh, man, I'm kind of worried.

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Speaker 5: Is he's describing a panic attack? Like I felt like

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Speaker 5: as a human, like a little con I mean, you

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Speaker 5: know you maybe sometime you have a panic attack. You

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Speaker 5: can't breathe, you can't move, maybe you see things. You know,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh that was My first reaction was like, oh, buddy,

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Speaker 5: you know that stinks. But then I then my second

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Speaker 5: thought was, is George Kittle pranking him? This is my

434
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 5: This is my second thought, you know, welcome welcome to

435
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 5: the team. Here's the ghost in my pool house.

436
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't doesn't sound like that.

437
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 3: I mean, well that feels logical though, knowing what we

438
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 3: know of him, I will say one.

439
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: Time I got to hire a ghost, though. I mean,

440
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: that's complicated, that's tough.

441
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's black market stuff. I when I

442
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 3: was in high school, I went to this totally absurd

443
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 3: uh summertime because I was like in student council and

444
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 3: it was like they sent some of us to this

445
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 3: thing called Boys State. Okay, where you go and you

446
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: do like a mock government. And my friend and I

447
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 3: were like, we're not doing We're not doing the mock

448
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,959
Speaker 3: government thing. They had like an attache like daily newspaper,

449
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 3: and so we joined this newspaper with no literally no

450
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: boss or oversights.

451
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 4: So we were five kids.

452
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 3: Living like in a dorm room cranking out these absurd

453
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 3: daily papers. I'll only mention this because.

454
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: About what what was the topic of the papers?

455
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: We just well we vaguely covered like this forming student government.

456
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 4: Uh.

457
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 3: We we broke into some of the rooms and took

458
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 3: like government documents. We created our own sports page, and

459
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 3: there was no internet, So, like I wrote a story

460
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 3: that Dan Marino had been traded to the Chicago Bears.

461
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 4: And then you just watch like the lunch room.

462
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 3: Start to catch fire, as this false rumor has been

463
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 3: spreading around this entire thing, and know that you got

464
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 3: people on their payphones calling their dads and stuff, and

465
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: was just all blowny.

466
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 4: But like.

467
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 3: At night, we were totally unsupervised, and this was on

468
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 3: this campus in Connecticut, and we walked we saw like

469
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 3: up in the sort of an attic area, this one building,

470
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: this green light, and we were like, what's going on

471
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 3: up there? So a couple of us, because could have

472
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 3: been a good story, we walked up these stairs to

473
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: the top of this building and it was a locked door.

474
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 3: But as we got closer and closer, three or four

475
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 3: of us, like our bodies completely froze. We couldn't move

476
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 3: for like minutes, and then finally like wet snapped out

477
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: of it and everyone ran out of there, and we

478
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 3: couldn't talk about it for like the next day or two.

479
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 3: So something when I read this thing from Sam Darnald's, like,

480
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: I have one experience in my life where I was

481
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 3: like I can't explain what happened. It was like frozen

482
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 3: panic and it wasn't like just me, It was like

483
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: three or four of us were left totally inoperable for

484
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 3: like the next hour or so.

485
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: So I don't know who knows.

486
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 5: That ghost was pretty pissed about the rumor you started. Yeah,

487
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 5: it's like I'm gonna get this guy.

488
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: The ghost of was powerful.

489
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 5: I don't know just dolphinspan.

490
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: He was that powerful. I love that connection. I have

491
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: not heard that story Mark, and I wonder how often

492
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: do you think about that story?

493
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: Oh?

494
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: Probably like once a once a day.

495
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 5: If you guys had a ghost, would you like, would

496
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 5: you be like, hey, man or a lady or whoever

497
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 5: you know, take your space. It's fine mutual respect, like

498
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 5: your saying I'll do my thing, or would you try

499
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 5: to do something about it. I feel like I'm the

500
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 5: first one I would. I would just be like, you

501
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 5: do your thing. You know you were probably here first,

502
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 5: so you go for it. Please don't hurt me. Other

503
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 5: than that, like all good, all you drop on conversations.

504
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as long as it's thing isn't like

505
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: suddenly you walk out in the kitchen and like every

506
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 3: drawer is open and like plates are shattered over the

507
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 3: keep your playfulness. Let's just cohab it together. We can

508
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 3: try to make.

509
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 5: This wark roommates.

510
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

511
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: The breaking news here really is that now Sam Donald

512
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: is more interesting to Mark Sessler for the twenty twenty

513
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: three seasons, I think to all of us.

514
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 5: I really don't want to tee this up. I'm so sorry,

515
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 5: you guys can kick me off the show. Is Sam

516
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 5: Donald like now literally seeing ghosts? M of course, I'm

517
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 5: so sorry, kick me off the show.

518
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry? How did we miss that?

519
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: How did we miss that? All right, let's take a

520
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: quick break and we will come back talking play collars

521
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: and some QB rankings. If there's one coach in the

522
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: NFL that can can stop Sam Donald, can help Sam

523
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: Donald from seeing ghosts, it's your boy, Jordan Kyle Shanahan,

524
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: who you know, isn't the total subject of your new podcast,

525
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: Play Guards, but does kind of start with him. And

526
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: like I mentioned at the top of the show, everyone

527
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: should check it out wherever you get your podcasts. It's

528
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: a limited series podcast. It's fantastic. It's about the Shanahan

529
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: coaching tree and their influence on the NFL. But before

530
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: we talk about it for a few minutes, let's listen

531
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: to a little clip here from Kyle himself.

532
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: Kyle threw himself into football, whether hanging on too Mike

533
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 5: Shanahan's every word, crossing paths in Denver with the Broncos

534
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 5: teenage ball boy named Mike McDaniel by the way, or

535
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 5: preparing for the college game that first sent him to

536
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 5: Duke and then to Texas.

537
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 7: That's why I was able to earn a scholarship, not

538
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 7: because I was naturally that good. I was an okay

539
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 7: high school player, but I knew how to work in

540
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 7: the standard of how to work. And it was because

541
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 7: I saw it as life and death. I saw it

542
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 7: as now, that's what I do. Even though I went

543
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 7: to college to play football, which probably isn't the best

544
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 7: thing to tell everybody, but it was for me, and

545
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 7: that's what I saw in my mind. I was playing football.

546
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 7: All I would do is work out because I wanted

547
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 7: to be a receiver. I remember when I transferred to

548
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 7: Texas and we had finals during our bull practices. Were

549
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 7: all supposed to miss the practice because we had a final,

550
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 7: and I was the only one who was redshirting because

551
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 7: I transferred there. I've been waiting for this scrimmage and

552
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 7: I had a final on that day and I just

553
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 7: showed up to the scrimmage and everyone was trying to

554
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 7: make me leave, saying I'll fail the class. And I

555
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 7: had to argue with everyone there, like, I know I'll

556
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 7: fail the class, and that's a decision I'm making right now.

557
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 7: I'm not missing this practice. And even though I had

558
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 7: like I had a c in there, all it turned

559
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 7: into en f because I would not miss the practice.

560
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 7: And it wasn't that I was trying to show the

561
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 7: coaches how committed I was. It was just how one

562
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 7: track my mind was.

563
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: So that's a clip from Play Callers, and it goes deep,

564
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: like what what did you come out of this thinking

565
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: about Kyle specifically and how the other guys kind of

566
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: look at him.

567
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 5: I mean, it's their identities, not just in football, but

568
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 5: like amongst each other. Is something that explore. It is

569
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 5: explored through the course of the series because they all

570
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 5: had this massive impact on each other, these four in particular,

571
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 5: and you know, you do get questions, you know, why

572
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 5: did you pick these four? Why are these because they

573
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 5: were all together in Houston, some of them in Atlanta

574
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 5: and then also in Washington, and they really the way

575
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 5: that they worked with each other and also fought with

576
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 5: each other under Kyle, who was all of their boss

577
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 5: at one point, which shapes the dynamic. Henceforth, then it

578
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 5: formed these evolutions and these ripple effects that sort of

579
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 5: moving and shaping the league and changing faster and faster

580
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 5: and faster. And that was really one of my main

581
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 5: takeaways is after you know, I left the interview, I

582
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, I get it in terms of why

583
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 5: they're all of the dynamics were what they were, and

584
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: how they debated with each other and how they argued,

585
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 5: but in a way that created ideas, and that functional

586
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: competition that sometimes could veer toward the dysfunctional, that really

587
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 5: helped bring forth these ideas because everyone was competing to

588
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 5: get call on his call sheet, whether it was you know,

589
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 5: Matt Lafleur, Mike mc Mike, me Daniel or Sean McVay.

590
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 5: The entire goal was to get calls on his call sheet,

591
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 5: which when you start the foundation of your friendship or

592
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 5: your you know, colleague relationship or you know that that way,

593
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 5: that automatically sets quite a tone for whatever happens to

594
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 5: you as a group moving forward.

595
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: I just I think anyone, no matter how drenched you

596
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 3: are in the NFL would learn so much from this,

597
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: and it really is about the nature of their personalities,

598
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 3: and like that's just a great example the the I

599
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: you know, I get the concept of like coaches want

600
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: to be heard and they want to have input, but

601
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: the obsessive nature of trying to have your imprint on

602
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: a game plan and beyond that, like even to create

603
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: a play from scratch. You had a great example that

604
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: if like someone went to Kyle Shanahan with an idea,

605
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: it was like he would mercilessly take you through the

606
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: task of trying to undo that play concept like this

607
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: is why it won't work. You tell me why it

608
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: will work. And it's just like he seems like I

609
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: thought your obsession with this project helped explain their obsession.

610
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 3: Like there was just this drum beat throughout it, and

611
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: I do becous it was just like you. I mean,

612
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: I could tell that you enjoyed talking to them and

613
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 3: in reverse too. There's not a lot of football projects

614
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 3: out there that really remind me of this. I mean,

615
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: I think it's the perfect blend of like I could

616
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: tell you, you know, you put you of a lot of

617
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: what it must I would wonder. I want to know

618
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: how you wrote sort of the script around the interviews

619
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: because so much work went into that. I binged it

620
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: today and like all these different voices who had shared

621
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: experiences found a way to tell new stories every time,

622
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: and like, I will just give one little thing that

623
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: I could not that I found gripping because we all

624
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: remember RG three's rookie year and you went through with

625
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: Kyle and others like the and Mike McDaniel's obviously just incredible.

626
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: You find out that he's not just good at the mic,

627
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 3: like there's just this nature tone where like they all

628
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: these cons confidence about what they do. But with RG

629
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: three that they sat him down before his rookie year,

630
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 3: and Greg, you'll remember this that like we went into

631
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: week one having no idea what that offense is going

632
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: to look.

633
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 4: Like they kept it a secret. They tried so hard.

634
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 3: Not to have anyone whisper about it, and they work

635
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: so closely with RG three that they went through every

636
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: single one of his bailor snaps and then they were like, bang,

637
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: wait a minute, to use him correctly and to totally

638
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: cap you know, get defenses bewildered from the start. It's

639
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: like we're just going to implement the pistol, which now

640
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: it's like all these teams started to do that after,

641
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: but it's like they completely showed up as a terrorizing

642
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: mystery from week one and it was like that's the

643
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: beauty of Kyle Shanahan and his staff, and they were

644
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: so competitive about it.

645
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 4: So I just like, I have a little more to go.

646
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: It went to it, but I think like, if you're

647
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 3: a listener, you'll keep doing the thing where you go

648
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: back fifteen seconds or back thirty seconds, because I'm.

649
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 4: Like, wait, what did he just say? Like, there's just

650
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 4: it's in a.

651
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 3: Good way, very dense. You put so much work into it,

652
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: and I think it's one of the most incredible projects

653
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: foot that I've ever experienced.

654
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: So congratulations, Oh thank you, Mark.

655
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 5: That's so nice of you to say, yeah, this is

656
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 5: the work that went into it. Of course it's not

657
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 5: about that. It's about who these people are and what

658
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 5: they said. But the reporting process, I mean, it's it's

659
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 5: a year of like deep dive reporting and research, and

660
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 5: it's not just talking to the voices that you hear,

661
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 5: which you know are of course these four, but also

662
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 5: Robert Salah, Brandon Staley, people, personnel, people, across the league,

663
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 5: Rgi Thie, Andrew Whitworth, you know, coaches and analysts, and

664
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 5: Steve Weish is great in it also, And you know

665
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 5: it's not it wasn't just that. It's also talking to

666
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 5: people around these people and talking to people on background,

667
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 5: and hours and hours and hours of study because I

668
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 5: had this theory and this hypothesis that because I'd seen

669
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 5: Uh being a beat writer, I think afforded me this

670
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 5: gift of looking at this story in a specific way

671
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: and I being on the ground watching all of these

672
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 5: things the Rams have done for the last you know,

673
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 5: five six seven years. There were certain moments in their

674
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 5: timeline where there were inflection points and very clear pivots.

675
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 5: It was like the head coach was showing his work,

676
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 5: not just of what he was trying to do and

677
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 5: how he was trying to evolve his own system forward.

678
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 5: But I'm not talking about like the moves even. I'm

679
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 5: talking about schematically out there on the field watching at practice,

680
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 5: and you could see those inflection points and they were

681
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 5: they were. It was also as his identity as a

682
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 5: coach was forming. And the series goes into that with

683
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 5: all of these guys. Because I went into this with

684
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 5: this theory that I approached them all with, over many,

685
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 5: many many requests to actually, hey, can we sit down

686
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 5: and talk. You know, I approach them with this theory

687
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 5: like I think that you are like living your football life,

688
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 5: and you are living your football for a lot in

689
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 5: real time. And I think what is different about this

690
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 5: generation of coaches specifically, is they are showing their work.

691
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 5: They are showing the why of what they're doing, because

692
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 5: it is so twisted up with who they are as people,

693
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 5: for better and for worse, that they can't help but

694
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 5: resemble their offenses and vice versa. You see it in

695
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 5: every single one of these coaches, and that's something that

696
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 5: I think makes them really unique. And it also it

697
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 5: exposes them in a way where and I don't say

698
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 5: that in a negative way. I mean like it just

699
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 5: they're right, They're right there out in front of you.

700
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 5: And I think that was part of the reason why

701
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 5: they were so comfortable talking about some of these things

702
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 5: that you won't hear them normally talk about, or any

703
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 5: coach normally talk about, because they understand that this is

704
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 5: this is what the bargain that they have made in

705
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 5: order to constantly be on the front of those innovation

706
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 5: loops that they try to create and then outrun their

707
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 5: own creations.

708
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: I do want to ask, because like, you go deep

709
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: with so many them, you got to know them, Like

710
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: which one of these coaches is like and I say

711
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: this in a nice way, which which one is just

712
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 3: the biggest psycho?

713
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 4: Because I mean, they.

714
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: All seem to me so insanely, you know, wedded to

715
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: this process.

716
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 5: I think they all have those qualities in different ways. No,

717
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 5: and I mean it kindly obviously, like but but it

718
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 5: they all have this certain type of obsessiveness. But it

719
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 5: was also like fingerprints, right, everything, every strain of that

720
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 5: obsessiveness differed from each and everyone. Like after I got

721
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 5: done talking to Kyle Shanahan, I first of all thought maybe,

722
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 5: like I might be murdered, like midted, but like I

723
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 5: get like the answer, he's really really intense, but it

724
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 5: but that's but it's but then you think, like you know,

725
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 5: sometimes you'd sit with Mike week Daniel and you'd be

726
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 5: just like blown away by why is this guy being

727
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 5: so candid, Like why is he so comfortable talking about

728
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 5: where he gets ideas? He I've never heard a coach

729
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 5: that early in his career, first second year third year,

730
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 5: fifth year head coaches are so like careful with how

731
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 5: they talk about football to not give anything away because

732
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 5: they always they feel like they're on the back foot

733
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 5: because they have to catch up to everybody else. And

734
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 5: Mike instead was like, let me tell you the time

735
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 5: I dreamed up a left handed fake boot for Tua,

736
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 5: like and it went eighty yards for a touchdown, like

737
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 5: sick man, cool, I'll take it.

738
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

739
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 5: And then and you sit there and you think like

740
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 5: you're almost frozen, like, you know, thinking why in the

741
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: heck is this person telling me this? But then you

742
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 5: realize it's just how they live. They they it's how

743
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 5: they process out loud. And then on the other hand,

744
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 5: like when I talk to Kyle, like I got a

745
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 5: very different sense from him than a lot of the

746
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 5: other guys because you get this like long haul trucker

747
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 5: feel where it's like, you know he is. There's a

748
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 5: darkness to what coaches do, especially coaches who are at

749
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 5: the forefront of new ideas and trying to be the

750
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 5: ones who are competing to not just win games, but

751
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 5: to have a legacy that says they helped shape the game,

752
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 5: which is where I think, even maybe more so than

753
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 5: wins and losses. What a lot of these coaches want

754
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 5: is to have been known in their careers as somebody

755
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 5: who impacted the sports timeline. And there's a darkness to

756
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 5: that because, like I said, you're creating these loops of innovation,

757
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 5: and the second you created one answer to one problem,

758
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 5: it will never work the same again. You are hunted

759
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 5: by everyone else. You're constantly sprinting trying to outrun the

760
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 5: thing that you created, and if it catches you, you

761
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 5: might lose years, like we saw with Sean McVay and

762
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 5: the Patriots, and like you might and Mike McDaniel says

763
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: it it took years off his life, like you know,

764
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 5: like it's there's a darkness to it. But then you

765
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 5: have these certain people. You have people who are grappling

766
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 5: with it, which Sean McVay very much did through twenty

767
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 5: twenty two, grappling with what that means and what a

768
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 5: life of that will mean. You have people who are

769
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 5: very comfortable living there. And I know everyone makes the

770
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 5: joke about Kyle Shanahan's like dark quotes about we don't

771
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 5: know if anyone's going to be alive, you know, from

772
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 5: what was it a couple of years ago, but there

773
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 5: was this sense.

774
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Of he was born in the darkness.

775
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 5: You have to like it's the goth NFL coach, right, No,

776
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 5: but like you have to you have to exist there

777
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 5: and get comfortable existing there, almost to a point where

778
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 5: it is how your brain works versus something that you

779
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 5: can that you step in and out of and of

780
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: of any of them. Really, it felt like he was

781
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 5: the one. And that's why I started joking He's the

782
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 5: long haul trucker, because it felt like he was the

783
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 5: one who was so comfortable existing in that space where

784
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 5: you're constantly at conflict with yourself and you're constantly being

785
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 5: strained like a rubber band. You want to test it

786
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 5: and see how far you can stretch it before it snaps,

787
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 5: even though you know it will hurt like hell if

788
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 5: it snaps. And I think that that's something that was

789
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 5: super interesting and a theory I had had because you know,

790
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 5: it just seemed like that was how it would be.

791
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 5: And then going and doing like sort of an archaeological

792
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 5: dig and trying to figure all of this out, like

793
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 5: I said, through a year of reporting it just was.

794
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 5: It ended up being an incredibly fascinating experience.

795
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Kyle is a product of his father, and

796
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: you know, his father's up you know, for Hall of

797
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: Fame consideration and everything, and it's just so interesting to

798
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: me that he is. He is the continuation because to me,

799
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: Mike Shanahan is a Hall of Famer because he changed

800
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: the NFL. And I actually think Kyle and this whole

801
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: generation almost should be taken into consideration with Mike because

802
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: if you're around for the Mike Shannan days, even in

803
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: the J. Cutler era, even in the post l Way era,

804
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: like he was the one that was ahead of the

805
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: rest of the league in terms of the schemes, and

806
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: except there his his guys weren't having that success, but

807
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: everyone knew he was the guy, and there there was

808
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: a darkness to him in a serious way, and I

809
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: think it, I think it messed up his career. There's

810
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,959
Speaker 1: a great book called A Few Seconds of Panic, which

811
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: is weirdly one of the best football books I've ever

812
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: read by this this guy who like sat in as

813
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: a kicker in the Broncos training camp. But I recommend

814
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: people read it, and it gave a great behind the

815
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: scenes of like how tortured sort of Shanahan was. And

816
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: and I just think Kyle like learned everything from his

817
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: father like that and then continued it. And it's just

818
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: like a dynasty in terms of how they've changed the NFL.

819
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: But Kyle, I think something he did better was treat

820
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: the people underneath him better and gave them agency. And

821
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: you see that, and you see that in the confidence

822
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: of McDaniel, who's who's earlier in his career and maybe

823
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: not doesn't have the bruises that that Kyle has. And

824
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Everyone should check it out. I sometimes think,

825
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: like I loved those old books by Paul Zimmerman, The

826
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: Thinking Guide Man to Football, and those are all a

827
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: lot of that is about scheme, and it's about the

828
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: evolution of scheme, and it has coaches speaking very openly

829
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: about scheme and players and you really learn a lot.

830
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: And that was the type of stuff I really loved.

831
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: I know Chris Westling, our great friend, really loved those

832
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: books because it's how we learned about football. And sometimes

833
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: you think, man, I wish those types of books were

834
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: being written now, and and your project kind of get

835
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: me thinking like this is the new version of that,

836
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: Like maybe those books aren't exactly being written now. I

837
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: hope I hope they will be. You'd read a great one, Jordan,

838
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: But like this podcast series is a version of that,

839
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: of sort of moving the medium forward.

840
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: So you know, Greg, this is this happens to us sometimes,

841
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: and like typically if we're in the studio, you look

842
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: over at my laptop. But the note that I had

843
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: here in purple is this is a bomb drop that

844
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 3: made me think of Ze I mean, like exactly, it's

845
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 3: it's his. It's like, there just aren't that many things

846
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: out there like this. And so it's also the perfect

847
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: time of year as we're getting back if you're a fan,

848
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: that's you know, coming off your vacations, like you're getting

849
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: back into this, Like it's not a refresher, it's just

850
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: like a super deep I've into an unexpected lake of knowledge,

851
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: and like it's the right time to do that.

852
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, if I could, I just wanted to share one

853
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 5: thing too. You know, first of all, that's thank you.

854
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 5: I'm as you could see, I'm very getting very red

855
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 5: over here. YouTube watchers will all right, we'll bring you

856
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 5: down asking your Desmond takes. What did what did Mark say?

857
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: Arthur?

858
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 5: It's going to FedEx some weirdness into the Falcons offense.

859
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: That was a good one.

860
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 5: I see, I told you I listened to the show.

861
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 5: You do I religiously than I do.

862
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 4: Well.

863
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 5: So those books that that you talked about, like they're

864
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 5: an example of having access to ideas and democracy in football,

865
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 5: like making ideas available to everybody and making giving people

866
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: access to what it is really like and throughout the

867
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 5: entire course of the series. And I'm sure you guys

868
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 5: can I can speak to this as well. There's all

869
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 5: these examples and they see they seem like, really, they're

870
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 5: really interesting stories. It's why I put them in there,

871
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 5: as they're fascinating stories. But I also put them in

872
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 5: there because it illustrates what happens when you have access

873
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 5: from a young age in your coaching career for a

874
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 5: variety of reasons, or what can happen when you are

875
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 5: Kyle Shanahan and you are sitting in you know, Tampa

876
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 5: Bay and you're lurking in defensive meetings some of the

877
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 5: greatest defensive coaches that have ever walked among us. And

878
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 5: then also you're logging plays, you know, on one of

879
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 5: those giant old square computers, right, and you're logging plays

880
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 5: out of the NFL's largest playbook at that time that

881
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 5: nobody has access to because the Internet isn't the internet

882
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 5: we know today, and you know, PDFs don't exist of

883
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 5: this thing, and you know, people aren't going out and

884
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 5: clinicing it and things like that. And so you see

885
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 5: these examples, and then he's training other coaches, training you know,

886
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 5: Sean McVay, he's training Matt lafleur, he's training Mike McDaniel

887
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 5: in what those ideas are and what that knowledge is.

888
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 5: And so one of the things that I really wanted

889
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 5: to do was show that while also reminding people that

890
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 5: you know, not everybody has access to those ideas, and

891
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 5: you know, this is this is a project where I

892
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 5: wanted people to feel like they were being let in,

893
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 5: that they could see and hear and feel what people

894
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 5: in these positions are talking about as football changes, as

895
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 5: football evolves, as ideas happen, because when more people have

896
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 5: access to those ideas, they turn those into opportunities, they

897
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 5: turn those into change. And I think that that is

898
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 5: something that I really wanted people to feel, was like,

899
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 5: you aren't on the outside looking in with this project.

900
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 5: You are You're sitting in the chair with me. You

901
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 5: are right there with me listening to some truly unhinged

902
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 5: rants at times, but also some really really smart, really interesting,

903
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 5: really really cool football stuff. How it happens, how it's made,

904
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 5: how it works, why it works, and how it shapes people,

905
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 5: and also how it shapes the identity of the sport

906
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 5: that we love.

907
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: So everyone check that out, Play callers, let's take a

908
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: quick break again, play callers, Jordan, we're not we're not

909
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: done with you yet. That we're gonna talk QB rankings,

910
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: and we'll do that right after the break. All right,

911
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: and we are back. Mark, we've done the QB Index

912
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: the last two years. You did it, true that I

913
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: did it two years ago, did it some years previous.

914
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: A great friend Chris Uh did it for a few

915
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: years as well. And I thought, you know, before we

916
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: get training camps started, we're a little less than two

917
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: weeks away some of those Hall of Fame teams I

918
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: think show up next week. Let's get these QB rankings

919
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: down from the guys who know me and you. We're

920
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: the experts. So we we put our rankings together, Jordan,

921
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,959
Speaker 1: and we combined them. But it turns out we didn't

922
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: really need to because Mark and I were more similar

923
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: on these rankings and we didn't know what each other picked.

924
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: We're seeing this after the fact. We combined our rankings

925
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: to make a one around the NFL official quarterback ranking

926
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: entering the twenty three season, and it was shocking how

927
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: few players we disagreed on, like twenty five plus of

928
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: them twenty eight of them almost were within one or

929
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 1: two spots. It is very strange there's only a couple

930
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: we disagreed, but that's fine. That means that we were

931
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: in agreement on where everything's standing. I'm going to go

932
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: back to front and I'm going to do it in tiers,

933
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: so we don't, you know, have a two and a

934
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: half hour show. So let's start from thirty two to

935
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: twenty eight, I believe. And we did include rookies in

936
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: our rankings. None of the rookies are right here, so

937
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: these are kind of the guys who have been in

938
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: the league. But we're not really feeling coming into the year.

939
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: We had a tie in last with Colt McCoy in

940
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: Desmond Ridder. We had Sam Howell at thirtieth, we had

941
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield at twenty ninth, and we had Jordan Love

942
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: at twenty eighth. So those five teams, you're going into

943
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: the season. I mean, Cardinals fans don't need to be

944
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: told this, but the other ones might be a little

945
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: disappointed that they're going into the season with about as

946
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: low expectations at quarterback at a time when I feel

947
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: like there's higher expectations in a deeper group of quarterbacks,

948
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: Mark than ever who stuck out to you the most

949
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: out of that group. I mean, I think for me,

950
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: it's just sort of a lot of incomplete, like we

951
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: just don't know what Desmond Ridder is beyond a very

952
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: small sample size.

953
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: Same with Howell you know Love. It's like guys where

954
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 3: it's like this, the where they end up on this list,

955
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: you know, a year from now could be very different.

956
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: I think I think of like even last season doing QBNX,

957
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: and just as an aside, Greg, it's not that different

958
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 3: than me trying to bring this project to Kyle Shanahan

959
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: because you started qb Index and so I'm like, you know,

960
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: wondering all day long, like what will Gregg's results be

961
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: compared to mine? And is this going to be another disaster?

962
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: So I'm kind of happy to see how close we were,

963
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 3: but you know, got like last year justin fields, when

964
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 3: Imember doing this in September, hovered at like thirty through

965
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 3: thirty two for a big chunk of time and then

966
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 3: completely grew into something else. And so I think these

967
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 3: are just guys where it's like we've got some rookies

968
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 3: coming up next, we just don't know, we don't know,

969
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 3: and like that. But there's no evidence that it's like,

970
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: wait a minute, Desmond Ridders blowing my mind from what

971
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 3: I saw either, So you're down at the near bottom

972
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 3: of the list.

973
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: No, I went and watched Desmond Ridders games. Is as

974
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: good a time to give my reviews. And look, I

975
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: know there's there's like a push. I've seen it from

976
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: Dan Orlovsky, for instance, Ben Solac, former guests of the

977
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: of the Pod, who's seeing some good things in Ritter

978
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: and China, hype them up going into the season. I

979
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: watched those games, and I didn't see it. I did

980
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: see that he got a little better every week. One

981
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: thing he did was he prevented his probably standout trait

982
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: was like he didn't make many bad decisions. That's pretty good.

983
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's something, But he also didn't show you

984
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: anything else that felt plus that like there was no

985
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: other trait certainly wasn't his playmaking or his running his

986
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: creativity that was that was almost a little disappointing. It's

987
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: not his arm, it's not his accuracy. So I just

988
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: look at the NFL now, it's like, not making a

989
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,479
Speaker 1: mistake isn't enough to be your greatest asset, And maybe

990
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: he'll be there mentally where he can get It just

991
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: feels like the floor is low. So I had him,

992
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: did I have him dead last going into the year,

993
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: because I think I mean, I had Colt McCoy last,

994
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: but I had Ridder next, because at least with Howell

995
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: and Baker, I guess who I had thirtieth. You had

996
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: him twenty eighth. You had him a little higher than me. Like,

997
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: I just feel like there's a little more of a

998
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: ceiling there where Ridder's hoping I feel like to be

999
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: early career Alex Smith.

1000
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, well, I think that being neutral, like

1001
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 5: you're saying not making a mistake, so that makes you

1002
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 5: sort of like put you in that neutral zone as

1003
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 5: a player where you're not fluctuating highly up or down.

1004
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 5: I think that maybe would outrank people who have a

1005
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 5: history of making lots of mistakes, right.

1006
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: Right right If he can continue that way, he would

1007
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: be better than Baker for instance.

1008
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 5: Yeah and so, But but I also think that, like

1009
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 5: I did not participate in this, I'm just here to

1010
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 5: judge so and to try to nitpick in various ways,

1011
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 5: but or agree with everything you guys say. That'd probably

1012
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 5: be easier. But you know that the thing that I

1013
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 5: think about with specifically, again, not to bring it back

1014
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 5: with a shameless plug, but Arthur Smith is one of

1015
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 5: the branches out of this in a very different way.

1016
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 5: He's got his own fingerprints on it in terms of

1017
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 5: various other people that he's worked on, of the system,

1018
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 5: and and a lot of what sometimes you see and

1019
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 5: Kyle Shanahan does this a little bit too, But sometimes

1020
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 5: you see this gravitation of offensive coaches who try to make

1021
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 5: their run game their quarterback quote unquote, or make the

1022
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 5: run game the thing that is most going to threaten

1023
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 5: or make the run games the thing that has the

1024
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 5: most multiplicity in it, and have somebody who can, you know, again,

1025
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 5: not set them back, not make mistakes. And you find

1026
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 5: sometimes in the earliest iterations of what this is, you

1027
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 5: find sometimes that that can raise the floor of the

1028
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 5: entire team. So when you know Obviously I didn't participate

1029
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 5: in this exercise, but I almost wonder how much like

1030
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 5: Fit and Roll plays into this because normally we think

1031
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 5: about quarterbacks, we think, no, they have to be judged

1032
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 5: in a vacuum, because they are the guy, so they

1033
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 5: should be judge in a vacuum. And I think in

1034
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 5: most cases that is true, but in some cases, with

1035
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 5: some offenses, in some systems, I almost wonder if part

1036
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 5: to whole is a little bit more of a rational

1037
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 5: way to judge. And then I also agree a lot

1038
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 5: of incompletes. Right. I wish it was like we love lists, right,

1039
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 5: because we're the NFL is an ordered sport. We like

1040
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 5: numbers and you know, wins and losses and you know,

1041
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 5: and we also like listing things, especially this time you're

1042
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 5: but I think, like I wish it was like sixteen

1043
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 5: and then a big pool, you know, yeah, and this listen.

1044
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: We'll get to the rookies next, or just kind of

1045
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: like whatever, how we're all just guessing with Howell and

1046
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 1: Jordan Love. Although Jordan Love I find more interesting than most.

1047
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like his floor and ceiling

1048
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 1: are crazy. I do think his ceiling is way higher

1049
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: than people think and I just think he's been a

1050
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: fascinating player when he's been on the field in the

1051
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: preseason and in the regular season in that he makes

1052
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: more insane throws per throw than just about anyone and

1053
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,959
Speaker 1: he makes crazy decisions too. So I am interested, Jordan,

1054
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: Like you know, with Lafloor, it's a great It's a

1055
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: big moment for Lafloor because it's a totally different quarterback.

1056
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: It's a totally different test, and it's a test of Lafloor,

1057
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: like what he's really got Can he really coach like

1058
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: a a a fourth year player and love but who

1059
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: as actually older than almost everyone he's throwing to.

1060
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 5: Yeah. One thing that was really cool about reporting this

1061
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 5: project was entering that building as they were transitioning into

1062
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 5: a new era because you could really feel it. I

1063
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 5: can't really describe what it felt like, but everyone was searching, seeking,

1064
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 5: So you know, Matt Lafleur is really open in one

1065
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 5: of the episodes about what teams he's watching, like he

1066
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 5: flat out talks about it and where he's getting ideas

1067
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 5: from and who he's like wanting to potentially steal plays from,

1068
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 5: like they all, you know, everyone in the league does,

1069
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 5: but specifically how he's thinking about that. And I think

1070
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 5: there's there's a lot that has been said and discussed

1071
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 5: about the compromise that went into running an offense with

1072
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 5: you know, Aaron Rodgers Hall of Fame quarterback and what

1073
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 5: that meant, and especially someone who was very particular about

1074
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 5: the things that he wanted to do versus what the

1075
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 5: system asked for and how to change those types of things.

1076
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 5: And but I think even with a quarterback with way

1077
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 5: less experience and you know is who is so much

1078
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 5: less of a known talent, it's Jordan love Is, there's

1079
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 5: still compromise that comes into it. You're still trying to

1080
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 5: help your quarterback feel successful in the system that you

1081
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 5: are running and in the plays that he is calling.

1082
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 5: And so that's just going to look different. But it's

1083
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 5: not like compromise goes away, because I think that's something

1084
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 5: that Matt Lafleur really learned, not just with Aaron Rodgers,

1085
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 5: but he talks about it with Matt Ryan too, of

1086
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 5: how you learn how to work with what feels right

1087
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 5: and feels comfortable for the guy that you have throwing

1088
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 5: the ball and calling you know, the play to the

1089
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 5: other ten people in the huddle. Where player in specifically

1090
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 5: and what Matt Laflora does, player often wins over scheme,

1091
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 5: whereas in a lot of other iterations of this offense,

1092
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 5: scheme always just dominates player or had in the past.

1093
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 5: And so I think that's what I'm most interested in,

1094
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 5: and I think it's like it's going to be an

1095
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 5: evolving thing. I don't know if we could say what

1096
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 5: the offense would look like right now, because you know,

1097
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 5: mattla Fleur got to La with Sean McVay, and they

1098
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 5: thought they were going to come out and run all

1099
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 5: twelve personnel in twenty seventeen, and then they got through

1100
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 5: half of OTA's and decided they didn't like that plan,

1101
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:28,439
Speaker 5: and then they scrapped it and then changed the entire

1102
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 5: plan around to as that hugely high deployment of eleven

1103
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 5: personnel that we see today. So I think he can

1104
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 5: pull from his experiences and his quote unquote is roots

1105
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 5: in that regard, because this is going to be something

1106
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 5: that does change as the season goes, and even as

1107
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 5: training camp goes, they're probably going to just try stuff

1108
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 5: at the time.

1109
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a weird fit. I mean, love to me

1110
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: fits that offense even less naturally than Aaron Rodgers certainly does.

1111
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: I don't see it. Jordan Love like with just like

1112
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: doing quick get you know, getting the ball out of

1113
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: his hands quickly all the time. That's not necess earliest strength.

1114
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: Let's go to the weirdest section on the group and

1115
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: probably have the least to talk about Mark here, which

1116
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: is just like rookies and Russell Wilson. I don't know

1117
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: how Russell Wilson got stuck down here, partly because you

1118
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: ranked him twenty seventh. I had him twenty second. I

1119
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: at least saw like I could see Russell Wilson. And

1120
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: it's not just because Sean Payton's air, but I can

1121
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: see Russell Wilson being closer to league average this year.

1122
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: And so this is where we just stuck the rookies

1123
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: because we kind of didn't know where to put him.

1124
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: We had him in order Bryce Young we had twenty

1125
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 1: fourth overall, Wilson is twenty fifth, Anthony Richardson is twenty sixth,

1126
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: and Stroud is twenty seventh. We pretty much had the

1127
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: same order in terms of rookies, Young, Richardson, Stroud in

1128
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: terms of this year. And that's what we're judging on,

1129
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: by the way, is this year. We're not talking about

1130
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: five years, I'm not talking about three years. We're just like,

1131
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: who would you want this year? And Russell Wilson stuck

1132
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,479
Speaker 1: with a bunch of rookies. It's a pretty big change.

1133
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 3: I mean, Russell Wilson was not at any point during

1134
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: the last time we saw him the twenty second best

1135
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 3: quarterback in the league. So I think that's what makes

1136
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 3: the exercise a little bit tough, Like.

1137
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: Right, you're trying to reset it and saying where you

1138
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: think you'll be this year? Yeah?

1139
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 4: Right.

1140
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 3: But to Jordan's point, like it would make me think

1141
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 3: differently about Desmond Ritter as the worst quarterback in the

1142
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 3: league because he's set up to thrive in an offense

1143
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 3: that's going to literally physically destroy people. So I don't

1144
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 3: know that that's sort of the challenge here. But for me, Wilson,

1145
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 3: I'm fine with him being at twenty seven. He's a

1146
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: little inflated here for my liking rookies at CBA, I

1147
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 3: initially just had rookies like in their own category and

1148
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: just did twenty.

1149
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah I would I probably would have preferred that too,

1150
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: and Wilson would make sense at the top of that

1151
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: last tier. We just talked about. So it's fine.

1152
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 5: I would love to see if you guys would draw

1153
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 5: this out like on actual sheets of paper or like

1154
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 5: a dry erase board or something, because you'd have like

1155
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 5: order and structure and then this giant like mass of

1156
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 5: names and then like Russell Wilson over here out wide

1157
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 5: on an island, or and like someone else over here,

1158
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 5: Like I would just I love it.

1159
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: Well, Urry Eric has it color coding on a Google spreadsheet.

1160
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should share that with people.

1161
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 3: But like doing this last year for the first time,

1162
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 3: there was like strange Mondays in October. I'm like, there's

1163
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 3: fourteen quarterbacks that all sort of are just the same

1164
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 3: level of value to their team. I mean, you got

1165
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 3: out of the top yes, twelve thirteen, and it becomes

1166
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: a murky, murky complex swamp.

1167
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 4: Well.

1168
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: I love doing this though, because otherwise, now that you

1169
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: know I'm not doing QBNDX, you just don't do it.

1170
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: And just to see where the names are and I'm

1171
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: thinking about where they were in previous years. I think

1172
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: it's a helpful exercise because the next group I'm going

1173
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: to include like a lot of the guy and this

1174
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: is a big group, and to me, it's sort of

1175
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: the Dalton line and below and a big group of them,

1176
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go all the way up to

1177
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: sixteen because I now I'm gonna make this one shorter.

1178
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: We'll make it a mini group. We'll go Derek Carr

1179
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: at nineteen. We got Jimmy G at twenty Mac Jones,

1180
00:57:55,120 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: who I think Mark, maybe my enthusiasm for has rubbed

1181
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: off on you or vice versa. I don't know. I

1182
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: think collectively we probably have him higher in this exercise

1183
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: than most would. Kenny Pickett's at twenty two, and then

1184
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: Brock Purdy is at twenty three. Let's start with Purdy

1185
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: because that actually was a player. I believe we disagreed

1186
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: on the most. You had him nineteenth, so you had

1187
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: a much closer Adulton line. I had him twenty seventh.

1188
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: I tried to take him out of that system, and

1189
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: I just tried to think of these other guys, Mac

1190
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: Jones for instance, Derek Carr for instance, some of these

1191
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: guys Jimmy G. Which maybe is an awkward comparison because

1192
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: you could say pretty outplayed Jimmy G last year, and

1193
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: think like if I put him in San Francisco's system,

1194
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: Like who do I want more and Purty maybe I'm

1195
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: just a hater lost out on that exercise for me

1196
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: to most of these guys. So I had a much

1197
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: lower you had him nineteenth. I'm fine with him landing

1198
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: where he did, which was twenty third, but he's at

1199
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: the bottom of this tier. That's with car Jimmy g

1200
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: Mac Pickett and Purty.

1201
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it's certainly another wait and see. And I

1202
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 3: have been pro Purty the entire time, probably possibly too much.

1203
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 3: And that's another one where it's hard for me to separate,

1204
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,479
Speaker 3: like who is this player versus everything I've just learned about,

1205
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 3: you know, in years prior in today about Kyle Shanahan.

1206
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: It's like I could trust Kyle Shanahan to like turn

1207
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 3: like Natalie Portman into a functional signal caller. So it's like,

1208
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 3: I really, I really like think that we need to

1209
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 3: see more from Brock Purty, and we need to see

1210
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 3: more from defenses that have learned a lot about him

1211
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 3: over the course of an offseason. But show me the

1212
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 3: game where he didn't thrive. I mean, if that's who

1213
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 3: he is, it's like I kind of don't really care

1214
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 3: because I don't have any evidence that he is a

1215
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 3: much lesser quarterback. I mean, he's not going to destroy

1216
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 3: you with his athleticism, but talk about the great decision making.

1217
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 3: I mean I hear I listen to how his own

1218
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: teammates talk about him, and that kind of sold me too,

1219
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 3: because it's like this, some of these guys, they come

1220
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 3: out of nowhere. That's just the way it is, and

1221
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: like it can be system, but they also you know,

1222
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: he came out of the books like as one of

1223
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: the smartest college quarterbacks of his class, and it showed

1224
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: in the fire in the for a team that like

1225
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 3: could have fallen off a cliff, we didn't know what

1226
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 3: would happen, and he completely shown that.

1227
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: Hell like Portman who went to Harvard, I mean Portman,

1228
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: that's would come in. I think I think she would

1229
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: fit in the system. I think she'd be mobile. I

1230
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: think she'd be a huge injury risk.

1231
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, she would be an injury.

1232
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't think she would hold up to the week

1233
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: to week you know, hits that she would take in

1234
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: the NFL. But I'd like to see her back there.

1235
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: I I now look at this and I'm rethinking Jimmy G.

1236
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: Like Jimmy G's twentieth Purty's twenty third. I do believe

1237
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: in Jimmy G having a better season this year with

1238
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: Josh McDaniels, and people give him credit. I don't. I

1239
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: always thought he was slightly awkward fit for Kyle Shanahan,

1240
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: Like looking at those two and what you know, Jordan,

1241
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: Jimmy G, Purty in the rest of this group, but

1242
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: especially you know, coming off with what you just learned

1243
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, Like, how do you think they look

1244
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: at those two guys? How do you think they look

1245
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: at Purty? Like would they think we have them way

1246
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: too low? Well?

1247
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 5: I just think you again, if we're pitching a play

1248
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 5: for the call, sheit here and we're expecting an argument

1249
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 5: and every which way and every turn, I think that

1250
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,959
Speaker 5: you'd be getting asked like what basis are you evaluating

1251
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 5: the players and are they the same? Because you can

1252
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 5: remove party from Shanahan's system for the ranking, but you're

1253
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 5: also talking about Garoppolo and McDaniel's working together, right, So

1254
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 5: that's where I kind of I start to see a

1255
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 5: art like, wonder a little bit about you.

1256
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: I'm removing them, I'm removing them. I think Jimmy G

1257
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: is a little more scheme, maybe independent than people would

1258
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: give them credit for.

1259
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, And honestly, what's kind of cool about this year

1260
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 5: with some of the movement that happened last year, is

1261
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 5: we're going to see, right, We're going to see really

1262
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 5: who a lot of people are. Some of these quarterbacks

1263
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 5: who have kind of been in that like murky swampy zone.

1264
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 5: We're going to kind of see like if they can

1265
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 5: differentiate themselves and how they can and what specifically that

1266
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 5: collaboration will will look like with their coordinators and with

1267
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 5: you know, the people that are they're designing these systems with.

1268
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 5: Because you know, I think people knock the quote unquote

1269
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 5: the system quarterback, and I don't think that's always fair

1270
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 5: because I always feel like you should be designing an

1271
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 5: offense that supports your quarterback and makes them feel comfortable

1272
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 5: and free. Maybe you don't want to get carried away

1273
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,479
Speaker 5: with like telling him exactly where to throw it, which

1274
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 5: totally blows up in your face when defenses rotate after

1275
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 5: the snap, but like, what you probably want to do

1276
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 5: is make sure that quarterback can play fast and free

1277
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 5: and understands what he's seeing and can feel that flow

1278
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 5: and get into that rhythm. And so you know, I

1279
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 5: just think like, it's okay if you're a system quarterback.

1280
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: Right, every I mean quarterback, every quarterback is a system

1281
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: quarterback or should want to be a system quarterback. Like

1282
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: your ability to fit within a system is a trait.

1283
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: And so maybe we add pretty a little bit low.

1284
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 5: I'm excited an episode where Greg is openly doubting his decisions.

1285
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: I like macover Pickett eat it. Steelers fans, we'll see, though,

1286
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: we'll see. I think they're similar ish type players and talent.

1287
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: I think Saints fans and their media definitely see Derek

1288
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: Carr as better than the nineteenth best quarterback in the league,

1289
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,479
Speaker 1: and if he can play well right off the bat

1290
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: with the Saints, like he'll prove it. He he has

1291
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: been someone in the history of QB Index that has

1292
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: bounced up and down more than just about anyone. Two

1293
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: seasons where he looked top ten ish, a couple of

1294
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: seasons where he was not top twenty ish. I don't

1295
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: totally trust him, and that's why he's there. Let's have

1296
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: a mini tier which is right below the Dalton line,

1297
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: which would be Tannehill goff In, Daniel Jones. They are

1298
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen in eighteen, we are the last men standing

1299
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: on Tannehill island mark to have him that high. I

1300
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: think I heard Mina Kimes' podcast on QBS and they

1301
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even remember. I don't even know

1302
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: if they got to Tannehill like he was buried, like

1303
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: he was buried there. But we I still like to

1304
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: think of him, and I think he's a system quarterback.

1305
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: If you put him on a lot of teams, I

1306
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: think he would upgrade a lot of situations. And so

1307
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: for this year and this year only, I still think

1308
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: he has something left in him, and I gave him

1309
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: just an edge over goff In Daniel Jones.

1310
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think, like with Tannehill.

1311
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 3: Again, like the human side of it, like the way

1312
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 3: he plays his rugged, fiery nature and just sort of

1313
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 3: I think what he's done with his own career. I

1314
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 3: do still believe in him. The Titans. The Titans potentially

1315
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 3: do not at this point. So that's a concern. They've

1316
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: seen more of him than I have.

1317
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: Uh.

1318
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 4: But for me, like I think, I don't know, they're.

1319
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,439
Speaker 1: Paying him a lot of money, they kept him around.

1320
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 1: I think they know that they're better with it, you

1321
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like I'm with you they successor,

1322
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: but they would like to upgrade. But I think they

1323
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: also like real lies. There's a decent chance the next

1324
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: guy won't be better than Tannehill, certainly not from a

1325
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: few years ago.

1326
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:06,439
Speaker 3: I love to hear what Jordan has to say about

1327
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 3: golf because I think last year, like Goff kind of

1328
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 3: gave the middle finger to everyone that's ripped on golf

1329
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: for the last half decade. He was sensational. It's like,

1330
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 3: but then I'm like, I think that you get stuck.

1331
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 3: Is is that Jared Goff? Or was that that offense?

1332
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 3: And like, do I trust Jared Goff based on the

1333
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 3: career wide sample size, but like players develop and grow,

1334
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 3: and like he he he was really just pretty immaculate

1335
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 3: for quarters at a time, And I think that was

1336
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 3: one where it's like I had to separate what I

1337
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 3: think of him from what is actually happening on tape

1338
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 3: right here. So I think it's from where he sits.

1339
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 3: There could be some Lions fans to say, you guys

1340
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 3: are ignoring too much about his most recent body of work.

1341
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: He could be ahead of Tannehill or Cousins or maybe Fields.

1342
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: I could I could see that argument.

1343
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 5: I think this year will tell us definitively. I don't

1344
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 5: think any other year except for the one that's coming,

1345
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 5: will tell us what we need to know about Jared

1346
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 5: Goff because the the you know, his rookie season obviously

1347
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 5: was terrible for a variety of reasons. Then seventeen eighteen

1348
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 5: were phenomenal again for a variety of reasons, not excluding

1349
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 5: his arm talent, not excluding the way that he can

1350
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 5: run those boots and all of that and operate the system.

1351
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 5: And you know, nineteen twenty were regression years again for

1352
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 5: a lot of different reasons. And then you know, having consistency, stability,

1353
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 5: getting confidence, developing, growing, becoming an older adult, like all

1354
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 5: of those things took place and are taking place in

1355
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 5: Detroit and also working with somebody who you know, one

1356
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 5: thing I don't think we talk enough about is the rotating,

1357
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 5: constant rotating of offensive coordinators that Jared had in LA

1358
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 5: because that's really the person you're working with the most,

1359
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 5: and that's changing all the time, and so are the

1360
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 5: expectations of the head coach as you get closer and

1361
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 5: closer to contention. And it's not a knock on anybody,

1362
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 5: it's just the paces didn't match at a certain point.

1363
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 5: That's okay, right, that's all right. But in Detroit, his

1364
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 5: pace of how he's developing is also matching the growth

1365
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 5: of the team and the further in contention of the

1366
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 5: team and the threat that the team presents against the

1367
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 5: rest of the league. It's they're growing at the same time,

1368
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 5: and it's there's a continuity there that I think is

1369
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 5: really really important and really valuable with Ben Johnson, you know,

1370
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 5: I hear great things about Ben Johnson, obviously, and I

1371
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 5: do think that this year, this coming year will tell

1372
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 5: us what we do need to know about Jared Goff,

1373
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 5: probably more so than any other year previously or any

1374
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 5: other assumption we have made or have not made about

1375
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 5: Jared Goff previously.

1376
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, my guess is he finishes QB Index higher than seventeen.

1377
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: I just think he's set up and he I think,

1378
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: like Cousins, there's sort of a misconception with Gough that

1379
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: he's just always the same in the middle, and it's

1380
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: like his highs are pretty high. I actually saw this tweet.

1381
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: I forget which rams say. It was how that game

1382
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: we went to Mark the Thursday night or against Minnesota

1383
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 1: by Jared Goff was like the highest ranked by some

1384
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: analytical measure start in rams history by any quarterback, and

1385
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: so that always colors it for me. We saw like

1386
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: we saw him at his very best. That was when

1387
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: he was absolutely peaking, and his his best is like

1388
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: really good and really really like talented in terms of

1389
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: his arm, and he reminds me of Cousin's in that way.

1390
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: Cousins like is as streaky a quarterback as there's been

1391
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: in the QB Index over the last decade, where he'll

1392
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 1: play top five for about six straight weeks and then

1393
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 1: he'll stink for about six straight weeks and you don't

1394
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: know what you have. And Goff seasons have been a

1395
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: little bit like that. But I think he'll end up higher. Okay,

1396
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: now let's go ahead.

1397
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 4: Guys.

1398
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 5: Sorry, Greg, I don't want to catch you off. I'm

1399
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 5: so sorry, but no. One last point. One less point

1400
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 5: on Goff that I think is really important that we

1401
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 5: need to reframe in that regard is like a lot

1402
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 5: of the time, especially when a team it became quite

1403
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 5: clear that a team could be for Super Bowl much

1404
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 5: quicker than anybody thought back in seventeen eighteen and then

1405
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 5: onward beyond in those years beyond when the paces didn't

1406
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 5: line up. There was all of this talk about what

1407
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 5: is his ceiling? Can he ever rereach his ceiling? And

1408
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,480
Speaker 5: I don't think there's enough conversation, whether it was internally

1409
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 5: or externally, about how can we raise his floor instead

1410
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 5: of what can we rereach or rEFInd or rediscover what

1411
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 5: a ceiling could be. Raising the floor actually became so

1412
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,560
Speaker 5: much more important in his overall development and trajectory. And

1413
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 5: I think that's what Detroit did in terms of reframing

1414
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 5: that entire conversation is Hey, let's stop worrying so much

1415
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 5: about the ceiling right now, because we're not a team

1416
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 5: that needs to worry about the ceiling right now, which

1417
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 5: again it's a fair worry in other buildings that were

1418
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 5: built contenders. But Detroit sits there and says, let's think

1419
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 5: about how we can actually raise the floor of what

1420
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 5: he's capable of doing, and the ceiling takes care of

1421
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:54,520
Speaker 5: itself at that point.

1422
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: Well, he's also I just looked at our list one

1423
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: to thirty two. He's probably the least most will starter

1424
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 1: in the NFL. There's just not there's not. It's crazy

1425
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: to think that because he's actually worked on his mobility,

1426
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: he's like a little better than he used to be.

1427
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: It might. The other contender is probably Stafford, who you

1428
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: don't think of as like totally immobile, but at this

1429
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: point he's had injuries and doesn't move well. And that's

1430
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: just how the NFL is gone. Like there used to

1431
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,799
Speaker 1: be twelve Jared goffs Now he might be the thirty

1432
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: second most athletics starting quarterback. Just you know something to

1433
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: consider that that does hurt your ceiling. So the next

1434
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: group has some incredible athletes.

1435
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 3: That's a big win for Cole McCoy. By the way,

1436
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 3: your previous statement there so.

1437
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: Well, I actually do. I think col McCoy moves better

1438
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:36,799
Speaker 1: even I think.

1439
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 3: He I don't know if he I'm not even sure

1440
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 3: he's going to be ready to start, but like there

1441
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 3: was a period where he ran pretty well.

1442
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 4: I'm not sure it's I think.

1443
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: He probably moves better right now than Jared Goff. He's

1444
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: got it, yeah.

1445
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 5: I think, so can we test it?

1446
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 1: I don't know. Kirk Cousins is up there on the

1447
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: like lack of mobility, but he's a little better, I

1448
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: would say that than Goff. He's at fifteen, little low.

1449
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: But where did you have him, Dan Mark?

1450
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 2: Rather?

1451
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 1: Wow, you had him fifteenth item, thirteenth, Fields is there

1452
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: at fourteen, Deshaun Watson, who I think we just collectively

1453
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with at thirteen, and then

1454
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: Stafford at twelve. This is a fascinating group. Let's start

1455
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: with Stafford mark because it's funny I doing this. I

1456
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: just thought, like, Stafford's been at twelve, He's been between

1457
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 1: ten and twelve and QB index for most of the

1458
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: last decade. He actually is, weirdly one of the most

1459
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 1: consistent quarterbacks, like that he had his twenty twenty one.

1460
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: He's had other pop up seasons, but for the most part,

1461
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: that's like where he sets in. So even though he's

1462
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 1: hurt or he was hurt, I just like was like,

1463
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable putting him any higher than that. But

1464
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: it seems weird because if he's healthy, I would expect

1465
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,600
Speaker 1: him to be in that area.

1466
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 3: Right, And I've had him at fourteenth and wasn't comfortable

1467
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 3: putting him any lower.

1468
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 4: I'm willing to kind of write on him twelve.

1469
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1470
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like last year on so many levels, due to

1471
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 3: an insane string of injuries and offensive line that was

1472
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 3: non functional, you know, I kind of just write it

1473
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 3: off because we've been watching Stafford for over a decade

1474
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 3: plus and I just feel like I know who he

1475
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,839
Speaker 3: is and I put him at fourteen. I'm totally comfortable

1476
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 3: with that. I guess I find Stafford, you know in Jordan.

1477
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 3: I'm sure you know you see some of this too,

1478
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 3: But it's like the Stafford era is in a strange

1479
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 3: point right now because the team has these stars and

1480
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 3: then this got probably the most amount of young players

1481
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 3: league wide, and it's like, where is Stafford in this?

1482
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 3: And I've always just wondered, like, if the trade deadline

1483
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 3: comes up and someone desperately needed a quarterback, do the

1484
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 3: Rams move on from him?

1485
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 4: Or or is the commitment on both sides all the

1486
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 4: way in.

1487
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 3: I just I feel like last year was really weird

1488
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 3: with Stafford, and I never feel like I got the

1489
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 3: full read on what was going on with this injury situation.

1490
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 4: McVay spoke about it in weird ways, so I don't know.

1491
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 4: It seems to me like a quarterback in an awkward place.

1492
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he gets an incomplete. He's another one

1493
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 5: of those incomplete grades, so he has such a you know,

1494
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 5: body of work. To this point, for me, it's like, again,

1495
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 5: you know, not to sound like a broken record, but

1496
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 5: like it's the ceiling floor question, over and over and

1497
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 5: over again.

1498
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: But he's looked good this offseason, right or different? What

1499
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: do you say?

1500
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1501
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 5: I mean to me, he like, here's what I hope

1502
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 5: this isn't just like get aggregated out or whatever. But

1503
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 5: like he he looks like his himself, whereas last year

1504
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 5: he did not because he wasn't throwing and he was

1505
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 5: on a pitch count and it was stressful, and he

1506
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 5: very clearly just like freaking hated not throwing because probably

1507
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 5: in previous years he probably just would have not like

1508
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 5: said anything about what.

1509
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: Was rodrig Stafford looks like himself hates throwing.

1510
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 4: Do not aggregate that.

1511
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: People out there, I don't think you have to worry.

1512
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: I think you're good.

1513
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 5: So but I do think that he I think he

1514
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 5: does look like he does look more like the Stafford

1515
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 5: who came in, you know, other than a slight setback

1516
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 5: with his thumb and training camp right when he came in.

1517
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 5: He looks like that guy. The example I use is

1518
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 5: like they are obviously onboarding a very young defense greg.

1519
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 5: I think it was very apt the terminology used to

1520
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 5: describe kind of like what the rams are doing on

1521
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 5: defense for the sake of keeping an offense that can

1522
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 5: maybe shoot a bunch of three point shots and then

1523
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 5: just you know, kind of shield their eyes if something,

1524
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 5: you know, things go poorly on defense, you just want

1525
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 5: to try to outscore. There are going to be some

1526
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 5: bumps along the way, obviously with that group, but in practice,

1527
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 5: you have to install concepts and you're trying to build

1528
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,200
Speaker 5: confidence and develop a very young group, and so you're

1529
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 5: encouraging defensive players to make plays and a lot of

1530
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 5: times it's happening against you know, you're especially encouraging the

1531
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 5: younger guys on the second and third teams to try

1532
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 5: to really make plays. And yeah, it's spring workouts, so

1533
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 5: you don't really know anything. But there are times when

1534
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,919
Speaker 5: there will be a sequence of plays that the DBS

1535
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 5: have made against like the second team or the third team,

1536
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 5: and Matthew Stafford will just sort of very calmly walk

1537
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 5: on the field, no expression on his face and just

1538
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 5: deal three four touchdowns in a row and red zone

1539
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 5: drills and then just walk off the field. And like

1540
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 5: that was what we saw a lot of in twenty

1541
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 5: twenty one, that sort of like cool, casual like murder

1542
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 5: vibes that like we didn't we saw that, and then

1543
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 5: you started seeing that over and over and over again

1544
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 5: as the Rams went on the run that they did

1545
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 5: and to me, so to me, I'm like, okay, it's

1546
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 5: I don't know specifically what will happen. You have to

1547
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 5: be concerned obviously at his age, with his history about injuries,

1548
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 5: with any quarterback, especially the one with ones with his

1549
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 5: injury history as he's had, and like he's an incomplete

1550
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 5: grade from last season as well. But at the same time,

1551
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 5: like it's he's more Staffordy right now than I felt

1552
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:40,640
Speaker 5: he's been for quite some time. And it's palpable on

1553
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:41,440
Speaker 5: the field.

1554
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: Bring back the murder vibes. I like that, although him.

1555
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 5: Darkly chaotic Matthew Stafford, I think is what we we

1556
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,480
Speaker 5: called it, darkly chaotic Matthew.

1557
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 1: Stafford, Like he needs that line to play better as

1558
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,839
Speaker 1: much as any quarterback. Watson, Like it's just impossible. We've

1559
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: talked Watson, I feel like a lot this offseason is

1560
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: just the almost the biggest question mark, X factor whatever

1561
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: you want to call it. With this season. I wasn't

1562
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,480
Speaker 1: comfortable putting him any higher than I had him fourteenth,

1563
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: Mark Adham thirteenth. He's just like, how do you judge

1564
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 1: a guy who's was always a top seven or eight?

1565
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: I would say talent player who came back in last

1566
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 1: year was truly terrible, didn't get better, didn't look like

1567
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,759
Speaker 1: a fit in that offense, and then measure that with like, okay,

1568
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: the time off who knows, so he we're just putting

1569
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: him somewhere in between fields is kind of like Jalen Hurts,

1570
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 1: I think going into last year, where like the running

1571
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:35,679
Speaker 1: floor is just so high. He hasn't shown as much

1572
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: as Hurts though going into year three as a passer,

1573
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: So we'll see. We don't have him too high the

1574
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 1: next tier. Let's just put Gino into a in a tier.

1575
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 1: What a world that Gino and Tua That Gino is

1576
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 1: tenth on this list and I didn't even have to

1577
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: like cheat to get him higher. We're entering a season

1578
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 1: where Gino is looked at as the tenth best quarterback

1579
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: in the league. I had too higher.

1580
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 4: That actually both had him at ten.

1581
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 3: I thought that you I didn't know where you were

1582
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 3: gonna go with that. One.

1583
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:07,719
Speaker 1: I think is just eleven. I'm wrong nine for Tua.

1584
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, but for Gino.

1585
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 3: We both had him at ten, but I think, Ta,

1586
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 3: You're not gonna please half the country with whatever you

1587
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 3: do with Tua. And like I had him at nine,

1588
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:18,720
Speaker 3: and I mean a lot of that is based off of,

1589
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 3: you know, talk about scheme and all this other business

1590
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 3: like durability.

1591
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 4: Can he last a season? Uh?

1592
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 3: But he was a I thought by in many metrics,

1593
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 3: like a top six or seven guy last year and

1594
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 3: in others even higher. And it's just like do I

1595
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 3: lean on metrics or the fact that for some lingering reason,

1596
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 3: and this is just maybe you know, watching quarterbacks your

1597
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 3: whole life and football your whole life, it's like I

1598
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 3: just don't really trust the Tua experience.

1599
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 4: I just don't.

1600
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 3: And I mean, but that's you know, but watching him play,

1601
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 3: like he answered a lot of questions last year, and

1602
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 3: I think it was like, you know, all off season

1603
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 3: was like does he have the arm strength?

1604
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 5: Does he?

1605
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 4: I mean with the weapons around him?

1606
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 3: He looked sensational at times, and I yet I still

1607
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 3: am just like the Dolphins themselves spent years kind of

1608
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:02,679
Speaker 3: looking beyond. I think Mike McDaniel seems to have backed

1609
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 3: up his own words of faith in him. He could

1610
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 3: have gone in another direction, and from the jump he said,

1611
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 3: I'm much He believed in Ta and milk the most

1612
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 3: at him. So it's like quarterback coach combination is about

1613
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 3: as good as it gets.

1614
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: Tua will should improve health. It's hard to like bake

1615
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: into these rankings, like if Tua is healthy, I would

1616
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 1: assume he finishes in the top ten. And yet if

1617
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: I had to put money on if Gino or Tua

1618
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: finishes the year in the top ten, I would put

1619
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: it on Gino just because I feel like there's just

1620
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: such a great possibility that Tua is hurt too much

1621
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: to get at the end of the season. But in

1622
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: terms of just his skill set and how he fits

1623
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 1: and his timing if he's on the field, I don't

1624
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 1: have a lot of doubts into him. My only doubt

1625
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: is like, okay, where can he keep growing? And can

1626
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 1: Gino keep growing too, because look, he hasn't played a

1627
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: lot of football, but man, he throws a pretty ball.

1628
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: Let's go to the next group. We're getting juicy here.

1629
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 1: Let's go to the back half of the top ten.

1630
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 1: It's Lamar at six, it's Aaron Rodgers at seven. We

1631
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 1: were in perfect agreement. We each had him at seven.

1632
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 1: It's Trevor Lawrence at eight. It's maybe a slightly lower

1633
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 1: on our list, I would guess that than some others.

1634
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 1: And then we have Dak Prescott at nine. Jordan again,

1635
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 1: let's let's say it again, Lamar six, Rogers seven, Lawrence eight,

1636
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: Prescott nine. Like, which which one of those is most surprising?

1637
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: Or would you have the most problem with They want

1638
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 1: you to get me.

1639
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 5: I mean I don't really. That's the thing is, you

1640
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 5: could make a case for all of.

1641
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: That, right, Like it seems stands out on those.

1642
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 5: Well, what stands out is that it seems logical to me.

1643
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,759
Speaker 5: I mean you could obviously argue technicalities and probably personal

1644
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 5: biases come in via whichever fan base you're a part of,

1645
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 5: and I would One thing is I I think, you know,

1646
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 5: so I covered Carolina when Trevor Lawrence was coming up

1647
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 5: through Clemson and then during the recruiting and all of

1648
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 5: that stuff, and I just remember how exciting it was

1649
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 5: that what he could do and how he could transcend.

1650
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 5: And I think for me, it's like, that's one of

1651
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 5: the things I'm most curious about overall in the subject

1652
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 5: of quarterbacks is how can you take that next step.

1653
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 5: You know, locally and in terms of the team, they

1654
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 5: all know what or they believe they know what he

1655
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 5: is capable of. But how do you then take that

1656
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 5: into Okay, every single year, there's not even a question.

1657
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 5: You're not even debating. This guy is star is transcending

1658
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 5: and rising into that league wide face that you kind

1659
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 5: of really want your franchise quarterback to be. And certainly

1660
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 5: somebody who's perennial in the top ten, if not the

1661
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 5: top six, you really want somebody to consistently put that

1662
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 5: body of work. And it's hard to judge him because

1663
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 5: you know, the last year happened. You know, I don't

1664
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 5: know what the hell you're going to do with that

1665
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 5: situation with Meyer if you're any any player a little

1666
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 5: on the quarterback, But I would like to see who

1667
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 5: he can become, what he can become, because you know,

1668
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 5: I've not been around a lot of prospects who's the

1669
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 5: expectation was quite as high as it was around him

1670
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 5: when he was when he was playing college football.

1671
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 3: I would say one thing with him, like, I'm willing

1672
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 3: to break last season into segments, and his final you know,

1673
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 3: six regular season games showed such incredible growth. He was immaculate.

1674
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 3: I have no problem thinking that by the end of

1675
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 3: the season he could be locked in as a top

1676
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 3: five type quarterback because I mean, it's you're talking about

1677
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 3: a different type of player, because what do you do

1678
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 3: with Lamar Jackson and Aaron Rodgers is arguably you know,

1679
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 3: if you look at last year alone and what we've

1680
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 3: seen most recently, it wasn't as bad as some people thought.

1681
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 4: But like, is he just Aaron Rodgers?

1682
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 3: And so we're kind of plugging him into this spot here,

1683
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 3: Like I struggle with that one a little bit. Of

1684
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 3: those three, Trevor Lawrence is the most ascendant, and I

1685
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 3: think we've just barely even seen what you know to

1686
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 3: your floor ceiling thing. Like my mind goes back to

1687
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 3: the primetime game against the Jets the terrible weather, where

1688
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 3: like he used his legs in a way he just

1689
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 3: grew that way as a player, made incredible decisions and

1690
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 3: just carried the team on his back. And he's six

1691
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 3: ft six, he's like the perfect size, like he's got

1692
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,799
Speaker 3: there's no weakness to his game and it was essentially

1693
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 3: his rookie season. So I just I mean, this is

1694
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 3: the guy along with Fields, and it's like I don't

1695
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 3: know where we're going to be at the end of

1696
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 3: the season. It could be a lot higher than people

1697
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:30,760
Speaker 3: would think.

1698
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a spicy take.

1699
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 4: Is that?

1700
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 5: Is this a safe space for spicy task?

1701
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1702
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 5: I think. Okay, here's the major caveat major caveat right

1703
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 5: is if Tua can stay healthy. If Tua can stay healthy,

1704
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 5: I do think that in the rankings he rises up

1705
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 5: and replaces one of these quarterbacks in this tier that

1706
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 5: you that you have named.

1707
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,799
Speaker 1: Oh sure, I think if he's healthy, he's a decent

1708
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 1: MVP candidate, like a dark Corse MVP candidate, just because

1709
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: the numbers will be undeniable. I'm with you, Lawrence, I

1710
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: just want to see more. You mentioned the end of

1711
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 1: the season. He can do everything. It just was hard

1712
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 1: for me to put him ahead of Rogers and Jackson.

1713
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: You think of like upside, it's like, well, those are

1714
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, three of the last five MVPs, Rogers and Jackson.

1715
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 1: I don't expect Aaron Rodgers to be an MVP again,

1716
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: but I really didn't think his play fell off that much.

1717
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: He needs protection, certainly, but I think that's true of

1718
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, just about any quarterback. And I just didn't

1719
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:38,400
Speaker 1: think his play fell off that much. And we've seen

1720
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 1: their highs, and you could say that about Jalen Hurts too,

1721
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 1: But Jalen Hurts, we've seen the progression year two to

1722
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 1: year three. He has at one extra year than Lawrence,

1723
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: and his highs were frankly just way higher than Lawrence's

1724
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: and longer and more sustained. So I didn't think it

1725
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:55,679
Speaker 1: was unfair. I think a lot of places actually would

1726
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: have Lawrence top five already. We do not have him there.

1727
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,200
Speaker 1: We do have justin Herbert in the top five. I

1728
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 1: had him And this was probably our biggest disagreement in

1729
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 1: the top of the list. Where did I think I

1730
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: had him three? I had him over Burrow? You had

1731
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: him lower, And so it ended up averaging out that

1732
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:20,879
Speaker 1: Herbert ended up fifth overall. Burrow our Hurts is fourth,

1733
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: Burrow third, Josh Allen number two, and then we each

1734
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 1: had Patrick Mahomes number one. I'm looking for Herbert. You

1735
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: had him fifth, I had him third. You also had

1736
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 1: Josh Allen fourth. I had him second. So I don't

1737
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: know mark like out of those two, I'm a little

1738
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 1: surprised you had you had Josh Allen as low as fourth.

1739
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 3: Well that's because I had hurt second, and I just

1740
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 3: came out of last season convinced that he was just

1741
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 3: a smidge and behind Mahomes for MVP, and like, to me,

1742
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 3: just his growth tells me like, we just have not

1743
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 3: seen the final destination, so we won me over as

1744
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 3: number two. I think Josh Allen is like this unmistakable, incredible,

1745
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 3: irreplaceable physical specimen that only one team in the league

1746
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 3: has an option to use.

1747
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 4: So there's no knock on him.

1748
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 3: I think with these guys like I kind of think

1749
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 3: that Burrow was, it's just more consistent than Josh Allen.

1750
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 3: When Josh Allen has he's big red zone issues last year,

1751
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 3: so I want to see what happens with that. But

1752
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 3: there's no kind of knock on anyone in this top five.

1753
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 3: I can see why we'd have some variants, but any

1754
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 3: one of them could wind up as an MVP.

1755
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I and I loved Hurts, and I still going

1756
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 1: into the season trying to take everything out of it,

1757
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 1: would rather have Josh Allen or Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert.

1758
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 1: And I took Herbert even over Burrow, and that's where

1759
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: it gets tricky. But I just think he can. He

1760
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: can do everything. There's nothing in how he plays that

1761
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 1: makes me worried about how like, oh, he hasn't done

1762
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 1: it in the playoffs. I'm not worried about that. I

1763
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 1: know how that playoff game went. It was not one

1764
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 1: of his best games. It wasn't one of Trevor Lawrence's

1765
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 1: best games either for a while, but it was not

1766
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 1: one of Justin Herbert's best games. But I'm not worried

1767
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: about that at all. He's shown up in big spots,

1768
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 1: and so I feel like if I was just drafting

1769
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: a team, I would take Herbert even over Burrow slightly,

1770
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: even though Burrow like comes up with the answers. He's

1771
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: gonna be the guy that maybe is ranked slightly too

1772
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 1: low because he just figures things out throughout his career.

1773
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: But physically I want Alan and Herbert ahead of him

1774
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 1: two three, and then I had Hurts five because those

1775
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 1: guys have just done it a little higher and more consistently.

1776
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 3: Then. But as you know, like that's I will tell

1777
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 3: you one little trick with this assignment last year was

1778
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 3: like they would tweet out a graphic of your top ten.

1779
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1780
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 3: One of the little trinkets attached to this exercise is

1781
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 3: that if like Jalen Hurts is injured for two weeks,

1782
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 3: he is not in your time, he's off the list.

1783
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,520
Speaker 3: You have to put his replacement, so that guy invariably

1784
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 3: is in the twenties or late twenties, And you know

1785
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 3: early on the graphic would go out without that little

1786
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,800
Speaker 3: part of it being the case, like even a little

1787
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,599
Speaker 3: line the bottom like injured players not shown. And you've

1788
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 3: got like all of Philadelphia and parts of Pennsylvania flaming

1789
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 3: you on Twitter for the next three days. And it's

1790
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:10,839
Speaker 3: just like I just turned off Twitter for like nineteen

1791
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:12,440
Speaker 3: straight months doing this exercise.

1792
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 1: I feel like, Yeah, the twenty twenty two seasons took

1793
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 1: years off Sean mcvay's life. I feel like just those

1794
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 1: responses to your top ten list, based on how many

1795
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:23,719
Speaker 1: times Mark has brought it up, took years off your life.

1796
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,480
Speaker 1: But you've got them back this summer.

1797
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 4: Mark, I've gained them back.

1798
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 1: What have you do in the last couple of weeks,

1799
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,679
Speaker 1: by the way, you know we haven't have I been doing? Yeah? Yeah,

1800
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: you went on a sea cruise again, right, yeah? Ben?

1801
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:38,639
Speaker 3: I went to Big Bear, you know, taking the spending

1802
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 3: time with the kids, just trying to mix it all

1803
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 3: in together. But something's unreportable, something's reportable.

1804
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 5: On you guys's point, Like I just wanted on the

1805
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 5: record saying I want every fan base to be happy, right,

1806
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 5: I want everyone to be happy and successful, right.

1807
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:58,679
Speaker 1: Right, Also because I used to I used to want

1808
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: that for thirty one teams and the team in Washington,

1809
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. And now with the changing of the guard,

1810
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 1: I'm changing my guard too.

1811
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 5: I was referring to your commanders, your top five. Now

1812
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 5: I'm not going to be like harshly debated and.

1813
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:13,719
Speaker 1: No, I get it, I get it, But I'm saying

1814
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:16,679
Speaker 1: I I agreed. I always didn't. I didn't want people

1815
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 1: to be angry except for Washington fans just because of

1816
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,640
Speaker 1: their owner. And now now we don't even have to

1817
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 1: worry about that. I don't think anyone will be mad

1818
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: too mad about this. Maybe Burrough fans, but he's third overall,

1819
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,679
Speaker 1: even though I had him fourth, So I think everyone,

1820
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: I think everyone would be happy with this.

1821
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 5: I don't think that this takes away I certainly don't

1822
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 5: mean it to take away from the talent and ability

1823
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 5: of everybody that you have ranked in various rankings between

1824
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 5: the two of you. I do think that if I'm

1825
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:49,200
Speaker 5: like an offensive coordinator, head coach, or game planner, whoever,

1826
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 5: I'm thinking about how if I have a player like

1827
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 5: Jalen Hurts, nothing is impossible, Like nothing is off the

1828
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 5: table in terms of what you can try and how

1829
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 5: you can do design your plan. And so obviously we're

1830
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 5: either deciding we're going to grade quarterbacks in a vacuum

1831
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 5: where we're deciding we're gonna rank quarterbacks as as a

1832
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 5: part to the whole. Either way, if you're looking at

1833
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 5: at that from that lens, for me, it's like I

1834
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 5: see Jalen Hurts and I think to myself, like, there

1835
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 5: is nothing. There is nothing that you There's no idea

1836
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 5: that you can't bring to the table in that building

1837
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 5: because of what he can do and how he presents

1838
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 5: as a threat in so many different ways, and the

1839
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 5: multiplicity that he presents not just as a running quarterback

1840
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 5: but as a throwing quarterback. Like I'm saying specifically, within

1841
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,640
Speaker 5: each category, there's multiplicity and how he can run the

1842
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 5: football and how he can execute the run game, and

1843
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 5: there's also multiplicity and how he can throw the football,

1844
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 5: and conceptually how diverse those types of things can get

1845
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 5: because of his abilities as a passer as well, and

1846
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 5: you get the sense from him that, like he does

1847
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 5: believe anything is possible for him. So I think when

1848
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 5: you're like thinking about ideas and game planning things like that,

1849
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 5: you know, I don't I honestly, frank, you don't know

1850
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 5: where I would put him. He would certainly be top

1851
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 5: five for me, But I'm not doing the rankings you

1852
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,640
Speaker 5: guys are. But I just think, like that's something that

1853
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 5: I always think about when I think about quarterbacks and

1854
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 5: and how how you build things around them. Is like

1855
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:20,600
Speaker 5: you have a blank canvas and every single marker on

1856
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 5: the planet in every que that has ever existed with

1857
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 5: a player like Jalen Hurts, and you can create things

1858
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,720
Speaker 5: that people can't stop because they probably have not seen

1859
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 5: them before, or their throwbacks from an ancient era, or

1860
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 5: they're pulling from you know, because you just because you can,

1861
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 5: and why not If you can, you should, right.

1862
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: And if he could play how he did in the

1863
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, and he can, we've seen it, like, then

1864
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: he can win the MVP, then he can be number two.

1865
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 1: I have a hard time putting anyone, uh, Like Mohams

1866
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: is such an obvious one that at Heast, like people

1867
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 1: think of him as like not that athletic in a

1868
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 1: weird way, it's like he's incredibly he's incredibly athletic, Like

1869
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,840
Speaker 1: he's he's not Jalen Hurts running, but he provides a

1870
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:06,599
Speaker 1: lot of value running, by the way, and obviously his legs,

1871
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, set up those stores. I guess that's why

1872
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: I would put Hurts below those guys though, because and

1873
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: it maybe as my old bias, because I think he's

1874
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 1: one of the greatest running quarterbacks of all time already,

1875
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 1: like he was, He's not gonna be able to run

1876
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 1: that much, but he's such a great runner and you

1877
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:20,880
Speaker 1: can build a run game around him. He didn't show

1878
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 1: as consistency his ability to get through all of his reads, anticipation, touch,

1879
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: sort of timing on the mid level throws as consistently

1880
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: as Burrow or Herbert or Alan. Yet he was getting there,

1881
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: and he did it in the Super Bowl, which is

1882
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:43,479
Speaker 1: the biggest spot ever. But he didn't do it the

1883
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 1: two rounds before, and so those things are so consistent

1884
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 1: week to week that I guess I'm a little biased

1885
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 1: and still think like if he shows me that this year,

1886
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 1: then then he's even another life.

1887
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 3: Well, also, I would just consider his growth process over

1888
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 3: one season, because you know, we're an off season removed

1889
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:01,760
Speaker 3: from them flatlining against the Tampa Buccaneers and wondering does

1890
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:03,800
Speaker 3: he is he essentially on a one year tryout to

1891
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 3: keep this job, and it's like no one in the

1892
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 3: league grew as much as he did, and I thought

1893
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 3: he was one of the more interesting players to write

1894
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,800
Speaker 3: about a week to week. We're like, you know, and

1895
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 3: we don't even talk about Mahomes that much, but it's

1896
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 3: like Mahomes sometimes you just want to be like Patrick

1897
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 3: Mahomes of course number one, but there is a lot

1898
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 3: of nuance to his game. Last year, we're like, on

1899
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 3: an injured lower body. What he did with his feet

1900
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:26,719
Speaker 3: I thought was the biggest growth, one of the biggest

1901
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,560
Speaker 3: areas that he grew because he was just an absolute

1902
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 3: damage machine on the Guslay the Super Bowl. Absolutely, And

1903
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 3: I mean but that's like it was like, He's hard

1904
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 3: to find an area like where did what's different about

1905
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 3: Patrick Mahomes this year and the year before. It's like

1906
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 3: that was one specific area, but Hurts his growth was

1907
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:45,679
Speaker 3: in every single aspect of his game.

1908
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 4: And I don't think that growth is over.

1909
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wouldn't change you. Guys's number one at all, obviously,

1910
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 5: Like there's no there's no question.

1911
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,599
Speaker 4: That's how you interesting, that's how you get the clicks.

1912
01:32:57,600 --> 01:32:59,680
Speaker 3: Though, if you suddenly swap him out with you know,

1913
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 3: filling the blank dude from the Northeast, like, people start

1914
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:03,760
Speaker 3: to go crazy.

1915
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 1: Let's put Dak. Let's put Dak at number one. Where

1916
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 1: do we have him nine? He's thirty. By the way,

1917
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 1: that makes me feel old. We're gonna be old if

1918
01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: this podcast continues any longer. This is a banger. It's

1919
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 1: a lot.

1920
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 5: I should tell you, guys, my leg is asleep.

1921
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 1: That's one of the longest ones we've ever done. It's fine.

1922
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 1: We haven't done a show in a long time. We

1923
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: may be overstuffed the rundown. It's okay, Jordan. You were fantastic.

1924
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:31,800
Speaker 1: Your series, The play Callers is fantastic. We will be

1925
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 1: back Mark next week. A couple of shows. Got a

1926
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 1: Monday show on the books, Dan, we'll be back for that.

1927
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 1: One from New York. Will still be remote. I'll be

1928
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 1: back in LA and we are getting close to training camp.

1929
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jordan.

1930
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 5: Thanks guys for having me. Seriously, as you know, huge

1931
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 5: fan really really appreciate you guys having me on. Just

1932
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 5: a delight, thank you.

1933
01:33:54,680 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: We'll have you on again soon. For Mark Sessler, poor

1934
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: Eric behind the glass. For Joan Rod read either