1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsa and welcome to ook F Daily with 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: this week, we experienced yet another mass shooting. 4 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: There were almost two dozen. 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Victims of a mass shooting incident that took place in Maine. 6 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 2: Maine is a place that. 7 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: Has none of the laws that are in place to 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: keep their citizens safe because you know, hunting and apparently 9 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: you need an AR fifteen for that. There have been 10 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: so many times when I turn on my microphone to 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: share the news of another mass shooting. I've been doing 12 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: this show for so long, and I don't even think 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I could count, honestly, the amount of times that I've 14 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: turned on this MI like to say the same things 15 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: over and over and over and over and over again. 16 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: We've become concredibly numb to these targeted acts of domestic terrorism. 17 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: That's what they are. That's not how the media reports it. 18 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: But my friend jaredy eight Sexon said in an interview 19 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: that you guys will listen to later this week, that's 20 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: what these acts of violence are like. We like to 21 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: think about terrorism in the form of bombs, in the 22 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: form of you know, people in fatigues and ground fighting. 23 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: We don't talk about the experience and the exposure to 24 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: largely a white, male dominated group of people who are 25 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: the ones that are picking up AR fifteen's, you know, 26 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: the pins that the House Republicans saw fit to switch 27 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: out their American flags for because they pledge their allegiance 28 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: to a weapon of mass destruction and violence. That these 29 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: acts that happen largely from people who subscribe to right 30 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: wing ideology, people who harbor racist, anti Semitic, anti black, 31 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: anti woman, anti LATINX. Just the list goes on and 32 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: on sentiments, those sentiments that are fed to them by 33 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: elected politicians. Their former president twice impeached white supremacist leader 34 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, a cadre right two hundred and twenty two 35 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: Republicans in the House and all of the Republicans in 36 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: the Senate, as well as being backed by multi billionaires 37 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: who subscribe to a theory of violence and domination, oppression 38 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: and power and greed. And so, I don't know what 39 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: else there is to say write about this country. Its 40 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: addiction to violence, its desire to ignore its founding and 41 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: the repercussions thereof, It's inability to have any type of 42 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: reflection to make any pivots and changes from the way 43 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: that quote unquote things have been done, to do them better, 44 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: to do them safer. 45 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: There's no desire. 46 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: And you know, for years now, I've had the great 47 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: pleasure of chatting with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, 48 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: who has been and is one of these sounding voices 49 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: major voices on gun reform, and in his new book though, 50 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: which will be available and is available right now for 51 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: pre order, so I urge you all to get a 52 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: copy entitled what We've Become Living and Dying in a 53 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: Country of Arms, Jonathan recognizes that maybe the way that 54 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: gun reform advocates have been tackling this issue, maybe it's 55 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: not working. Maybe we need a pivot, maybe we need 56 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: a shift because there are so many, any more things 57 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: at play than what meets the eye. That's what it 58 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: means to be a good leader, to be able to 59 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: look at what you've been doing and see whether or 60 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: not it's been effective, and if it hasn't been effective 61 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: to the extent that you have wanted it to be, 62 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: then you have the courage to make a shift. You 63 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: have the courage to say, let's try something else. That's 64 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: not who America as a collective has ever been the 65 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: masculine toxicity that is on display in our patriarchal society 66 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: that hates women, the DNA of white supremacy that runs 67 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: through the very soil and bodies of those people who 68 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: call themselves Americans, because we refuse as a collective to 69 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: address anything and march through life with the hubris and 70 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: the ego that America alone can fix it. America is 71 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: the best. America is number one, and the thing that 72 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: we are number one in. 73 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: Is got deaths. 74 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: That's where we stand alone as a country. No one 75 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: else has as bloody of an existence as America. Even 76 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: right now as we watch war in real time, the 77 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: deaths of thousands of fucking children that our own president 78 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: doesn't even want to acknowledge why because then he would 79 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: have to reckon with his fucking allegiance and the billions 80 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: of dollars that have gone to perpetrate genocide. Because to 81 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: recognize the lives lost of Palestinians, of Palestinian children, babies, 82 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: would force a change in course and a change in action. 83 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: So let's pretend. Let's continue with the lie, and then 84 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: when when people don't take in the lie and ingest 85 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: it with their own free will will force it down 86 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: their throats. That's where we are. So this conversation that 87 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: I have with Jonathan today talks about the need for pivot, 88 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: talks about the need for a shift and why if 89 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: we are to progress, we need to be examining our 90 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: lives in the world through a place of expansion and 91 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: not narrowness. Coming up next my conversation with our friend, 92 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know 93 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: that whenever I have the opportunity to speak with our friend, 94 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Mepzil, I am always thrilled, 95 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: And this week was so honored to be invited Jonathan, 96 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: to speak in front of your class at Vanderbilt. I 97 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: want to give you the opportunity to tell folks what 98 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: this particular the topic of this particular class was and 99 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: what you were hoping to get out of it. 100 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: So it's a new class we're teaching. This is actually 101 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: the first semester and the title of the class is 102 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: Guns in America, which is not as straightboard a topic 103 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: as you might think. The kind of argument of the 104 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 3: class is the way you define guns in America depends 105 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: on the framework that you use to understand what the 106 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 3: issue is or what the problem is. And so every 107 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: week we're doing roughly a general topic. So we did 108 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: guns and Politics, guns and Medicine, guns in the Law. 109 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 3: We had one a week of guns and Crime, and 110 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: we had a couple of officers from the Vanderbilt Police 111 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 3: Force come in, and yesterday was Guns and the Media. 112 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: And it was kind of typical of how we've been 113 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 3: doing this in that if you, you know, if you 114 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: look at guns in the media through for example, mainstream 115 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: corporate media or something like that, you'll the question we 116 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 3: ask is like when when do guns show up? And 117 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: it's very often stories after mass shootings, understandably, and stories 118 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 3: like the Supreme Court case we're having come up, but 119 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 3: not much else beyond that for understandable reasons. But that's 120 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 3: kind of what drives those markets. But if you look 121 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: at other forms of media and expression, you do not 122 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: only see that there are other ways of talking about guns, 123 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: but that the issues and the voices are really different. 124 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 3: And so guns and podcasts, for example, you can talk 125 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: about guns and culture, guns and communities of color. So 126 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 3: you were amazing and engaging and so present. It was 127 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: just Honestly, I was just like, man, this is wonderful. 128 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: You're so good because you were on zoom, but it 129 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: was like you were with us in the room there. 130 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: It was so nice. So we had you, and then 131 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 3: we had Dwayne Bray who's from ESPN who actually writes 132 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 3: about It's interesting he's with ESPN, but he writes about 133 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: violence and communities of color, not linked to sports. And 134 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 3: his main argument was we put we like, why are 135 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: we putting this on the backs of athletes like Lebron 136 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 3: James and Chris Paul and stuff like that when the 137 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 3: issue is really every day that we lose if it's 138 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: just athletes, and really this is a big, a bigger 139 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: societal issue. And so it was interesting because he was 140 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: rejecting like people said, shouldn't athletes be involved in social 141 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: justice and he said, well yes and no, because if 142 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: it's just them, it's just window dressing. And he also 143 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: said it often is just black athletes that are speaking 144 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 3: out and when did Tom Brady speak out about it? 145 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 3: And stuff like that. So it was really it was 146 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 3: quite interesting. 147 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that what I thought of his initial 148 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: opening I thought was really good. And it's a question 149 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: I think that we ask often of artists and athletes, 150 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: people with really big platforms, you know, to automatically we 151 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: assume that they should be activists. And I think that 152 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: being an activists should be a choice and not just 153 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: a part of your profession because you happen to, you know, 154 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: have millions of followers. And I think that we've seen 155 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: that happen for better or for worse, when people are 156 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: not informed, right, and they're and they're using their platforms 157 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: and they have and they garner all this attention and 158 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: then those that that are But I think to his point, 159 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, just recently, and I think you and I 160 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: were having this conversation, I might have been having it 161 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: with somebody else, you know. The n h the n 162 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: h L, which is largely all white, majority white players 163 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: in the in the Hockey League, recently had passed a 164 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: policy that was going to disallow the players from being 165 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: able to use the tape for their hockey sticks during 166 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: their practices and the games. To show their allegiance to 167 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community. There was going to be like they 168 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: were going to change the policy and disallow them from 169 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: using the tape, and several of the NHL players said, yeah, no, 170 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: I'll take the fine. And so because of that, they 171 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: were just this week reverse that policy and allowed the 172 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: players to do what they've been doing for the last 173 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: ten years and so to show their allegiance and support 174 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: to the LGBTQ community. So it is really important conversation 175 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: to have, and I'm glad that you brought that to 176 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: your students, and I was glad that I had the 177 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to give my perspective on, you know, on guns 178 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: and the media and how we shift narrative. 179 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: And it was I mean, let me just say about that, 180 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 3: you know, I like what, for example, what's her name, 181 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 3: Travis Kelsey's girlfriend is doing, which is she's not going 182 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: She's not telling people to make up their minds. She's 183 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: like getting people to register to vote and stuff. So 184 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: tying it into actually real world stuff, I think is 185 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 3: great because there are a lot of politicians, a lot 186 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 3: of there are a lot of media people. I mean, 187 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 3: there are a lot of entertainers who like, we probably 188 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: don't want to know what they think, you know, we 189 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 3: just want to enjoy it. But I like what she 190 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: does too, because it's like register to vote. I'm not 191 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: telling you who to vote for. I'm just saying register 192 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: to vote, which I think is really really powerful. But 193 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 3: you know, you were so good about talking about the 194 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 3: voices that were left out of mainstream media and the 195 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: perspectives of communities of color. I mean, we have a 196 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 3: lot of football players in the class, and they all 197 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 3: came up and they were like, Oh my god, I'm 198 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: so glad, I'm so glad you said that, because nobody 199 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: talks about like what it's like in our neighborhoods and 200 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: stuff like that. That's not a story people ever hear. And 201 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: so so yeah, thank you, thank you. 202 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 203 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely, It's been an interesting class because people come into 204 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: a class like this thinking and we do a little 205 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 3: bit of it, teaching them, you know, public health and 206 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 3: research and all that kind of stuff, but it's really 207 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: more like, how can you talk in a more complicated 208 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: way about something that seems really polarized and obvious. People 209 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: think they come to this knowing exactly position, and we 210 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: try to kind of say, look, it's a little more 211 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: complicated than that, so let's let's look under the hood 212 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: a little bit. And then and then the last part 213 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: of the classes we have them go out in the 214 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: world and do activism projects. But we have a lot 215 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: of students who own guns, a lot of students to 216 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: carry guns for protection. You know, Tennessee is a place 217 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: where there are a lot of guns. So it's not 218 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: inherently a pro or anti gun class. It's really like, 219 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: let's figure out, like what what this. 220 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: All means, which is why I thought it was really great, 221 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, getting some of the questions and you know 222 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: about and the nuance that the media lacks, because my 223 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: assumption was just that that it wasn't just a you know, 224 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: a liberal class with no guns and no gun ownership 225 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: that you know, and that that's the beauty, you know, Jonathan, 226 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: of your writing and the analysis that you do in 227 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: the conversations that you have. And so I do want 228 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: to switch gears to talk about what is coming up 229 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: around your newest book, your latest book that won't drop 230 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: until January. But you know, you're receiving some pushback from 231 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: offering a pivot to a new path, and I think 232 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: that that is I think I want you to share 233 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: what's happening. Remind people of the title of the book, 234 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: and are they able to pre order, because if so, folks, 235 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: you should, but tell us what's happening right now? 236 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: Okay, So my book is called What We've Become, Living 237 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 3: and Dying in a Country of Arms, and it's a 238 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: book about the Nashville waffle House mass shooting and tells 239 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: the story of a very powerful, racially charged mass shooting 240 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 3: that happened here in twenty eighteen. A naked white man 241 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: went into a waffle house that was full of happy, 242 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: partying young adults of color and shot killed four people 243 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: and shot five others. And I really followed the case 244 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: from before to during and after. And as I followed 245 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: the case, I realize that the things I've been advocating 246 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 3: for through my whole career, background checks, red flag laws, 247 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: assault weapons bands, they're important. But I also become very critical, 248 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 3: not just because they wouldn't have solved, they wouldn't have 249 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 3: stopped this crime. But the reason they wouldn't have stopped 250 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: the crime wasn't because of whether or not the policies 251 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 3: were in effect. It was because the policies that I 252 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: advocated for have no bigger theory of race, of political power, 253 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: of all these things. And so the argument of the 254 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 3: book I've been wrote it down in advance of what 255 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: we were saying. My main argument is that civilian known 256 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 3: guns cement conservative and racial power. It's not just a 257 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: health issue, it's a political one, and the public health 258 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: frame by itself cannot fully grasp or address that. I 259 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 3: show the limitations of our approach that's facing public health, 260 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 3: even though I support it, but I think we need 261 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 3: broader strategies that are political and racial in nature going forward. 262 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: To be clear, I really support everything I've done, but 263 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 3: I also think we need to be much more politically 264 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 3: and socially involved. And I just think that in a way, 265 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 3: and I just show I trace the history in a 266 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 3: way of the gun control movement, which I'm a part of, 267 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 3: but I show how guns are metaphors for cementing power 268 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: and if you don't have a theory of power to 269 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 3: push back on that, like people armed civilians as a 270 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 3: way to maintain racial hierarchies. They maintain they have civilian 271 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 3: guns to make inevitable certain conservative policies, to have power 272 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 3: over the judiciary, over the electorate. So even though I 273 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 3: think guns are a public health issue, I also think 274 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: that just calling it a public health issue, that frame 275 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 3: I show historically was too small in a way. What 276 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 3: I show is the story of the Nashville shooting was 277 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 3: a story about whiteness and about gun power in the South, 278 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 3: and about how the policies that would have stopped the 279 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 3: shooting were never going to happen because of the hold 280 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 3: that the NRA had on the courts. And so it's 281 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 3: a story about judges, it's a story about race, it's 282 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 3: a story about who codes as a as a criminal 283 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 3: and who codes as a patriot and all these things. 284 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 3: And so I'm getting a lot of pushback because I'm 285 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 3: now being called just in early reads a sellout to 286 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: liberalism in a way, because I'm not like there's you know, 287 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 3: and I understand right, I'm part of the movement too. 288 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: I think calling guns a public health issue is certainly important. 289 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: But what I argue is that doctors and public health 290 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 3: by themselves don't have the expertise for how do you 291 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 3: change society, which has to do with understanding judges and 292 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: power and all these other factors. 293 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that I, you know, when you 294 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: brought this up up when I was speaking with the class, like, 295 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: I was kind of shocked at the fact that you 296 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: are receiving pushback from recognizing that. 297 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: A pivot needs to be made. 298 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: It's as if the movement leaders are just like, let's 299 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: keep banging our heads against the wall doing the same 300 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: thing and not getting any new results. 301 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: And that's the definition of insanity. 302 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: And so I'm like, you know, it doesn't to me, 303 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: and you you know, answer this question. 304 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: It doesn't to me. 305 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: Sound like you're saying let's abandon this where we've been. 306 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: It's saying we need a both. And the issue is 307 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: bigger than just saying that guns are a public health issue. 308 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: There are so many other factors that are contributing to 309 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: this larger epidemic of gun violence, and so how do 310 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: how do we tackle that? 311 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 3: Right? 312 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: Like, is it to me? Are you offering a both? 313 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: And and why is that scene as problematic? 314 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 3: Well, after the book comes out, I will be I 315 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: will talk in detail about some of the pushback I've 316 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: been getting. And I understand like we've built a new 317 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 3: I mean, the gun control movement i'll call it, that 318 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: is two decades old, and people feel really invested. But 319 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: there also are some players that are just really invested 320 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 3: in having a very particular narrative. And I'm not saying 321 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 3: we should throw everything out. I'm saying, right, let's look 322 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 3: at what the public health frame that surrounds gun safety. 323 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: Let's look at that what the strengths of that frame are. 324 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 3: But also it's important to look at what is what 325 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 3: are the blind spots, because the blind spots are considerable 326 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 3: and they're impactful. And I said, like, for example, without 327 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 3: a theory of whiteness, you're not going to be able 328 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 3: to talk to the majority of the people who own 329 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 3: guns in places like Tennessee and stuff like that. In 330 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 3: a way, So, so we have theories of health, but 331 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: I think the pandemic made pretty clear that if we 332 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: just assume that health is self evident, we get in 333 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 3: trouble because health for a lot of people has to 334 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: do with government and regulation and control and the opposite 335 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: of freedom. And so I just argue that in a way, 336 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: what happened in the pandemic was really it didn't come 337 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 3: out of nowhere. It was actually a reflection of the 338 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 3: tensions that had been building in the gun debate for 339 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 3: twenty years, where public health was seen as the enemy 340 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: of the people. And so I argue that, like, let's 341 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 3: just look at how we got there. But I think 342 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: the issue is I mean, I obviously stand by what 343 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 3: I wrote, I stand by also dying of whiteness, but 344 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 3: dying of whiteness. It was me, obviously writing to liberals saying, 345 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 3: let me explain the other side to you, whereas here 346 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 3: I'm writing to liberals, but I'm saying we need to 347 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 3: look at ourselves a little bit right. And you know 348 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: I'm not alone in this. There are people like David Hope, 349 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 3: for example, is starting in a great new organization that's 350 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: tied entirely to electoral politics. The Lancet had a big 351 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 3: piece come out the other day that said that a 352 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 3: health model is not enough, that we need to look 353 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: at all these structural factors. In the end of my book, 354 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 3: I say we need to focus on making communities safer. 355 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: It can't just be about like regulating guns. I understand 356 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: why those are the arguments we have, but what does 357 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 3: it mean to invest in communities. There's all this research 358 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 3: that putting in street lights and making more parks and 359 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: more bike lanes, all those things actually reduce crime, and 360 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 3: so we actually have to invest in communities. And I 361 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: also explain why communities of color are potentially distrustful of 362 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: the gun safety movement because the policies that they advocate. 363 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 3: I'll give you an example, like red flag laws. You 364 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: actually have to call the cops on your relative pretty 365 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: much to get them to come take the gun and 366 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: do an assessment background chat. You're asking people to enter 367 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: their name into a database that prings people with a 368 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 3: history of incarceration and arrest and so all these things 369 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: are kind of you know, you understand, if you're like 370 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 3: a person of color with a rest record, you're not 371 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 3: going to want to buy a gun. 372 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're I will I mean, I will 373 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: say this as a as a as as a black 374 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: woman that doesn't not have an arrest record in any issues, 375 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: let me tell you something that, like, I'm not interested 376 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: in entering my name into anybody's database. I'm not interested 377 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: in doing, you know, in calling the cops. There there 378 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: have been issues like in my neighborhood, which is largely white, 379 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: and I, you know, choose not to call the cops 380 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: if I don't have to, because I don't want to 381 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: be the cause of violence, right. And so I think 382 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: that you were the way that you are examining this 383 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: and understanding and I kind of want to get back 384 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: to what you said around a theory of whiteness. I 385 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: think it's difficult to even express the ideas around a 386 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: theory of whiteness when we are still trying to convince 387 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: people that racism and white privilege and all of these 388 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: other things actually exist. And so, Jonathan, you know, what 389 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: do you see as like the biggest barrier to developing 390 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: a strategy or expanding a strategy that you said is 391 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: twenty years old. 392 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: I mean, you know what I argue is we're using 393 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 3: an old playbook, which is based on the assumption that, 394 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 3: of course everybody's going to get vaccinated. You know, that's 395 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: kind of the assumption everybody's going to work together for 396 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 3: these seemingly universal aims. But I think we need a 397 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 3: new public health that's much more engaged. I mean, this 398 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 3: is already happening. I'm not the only person saying this, 399 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 3: to be clear, but much more engaged with building building 400 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 3: communal infrastructure that awards people collaborating with each other on 401 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 3: local level. So that's kind of for me where the 402 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 3: money is. And also doing what David is doing now, 403 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 3: which is building political groups that can combat they can 404 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 3: kind of speak to people on the ground and combat 405 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 3: you know, being pro gun and pro n is a 406 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: form of white identity. I'm not saying that in any 407 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: way critically. Actually, I'm saying that that's just kind of 408 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 3: a fact. And so if you say, like, hey, I'm 409 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 3: a conservative American, but I actually think gun safety is 410 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: a good thing, you're a trader to your side in 411 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 3: a way. And so how do we combat that. It's 412 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 3: not by trying to talk people out of what they're doing. 413 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: It's kind of like figuring out what they're figuring out 414 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: what drives them, and then answering that with things not 415 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 3: that are important to me, but are important to them. 416 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 3: And so I'm arguing that, you know, local investment, infrastructure. 417 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: The whole last part of the book is about how 418 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 3: can we create what I call a structural competency gun safety, 419 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 3: This idea that basically it's kind of extrapolating from that 420 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 3: idea of like more street lights and more parks reduced 421 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 3: reduced gun crime. It's not about mandating individual behavior, which 422 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 3: I think is important, But it's just that that model, 423 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 3: as we saw on the pandemic, is going to be 424 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: inherently polarizing just given the way our country is. 425 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: And I mean, and you can't really have a conversation 426 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: about more street lights and parks when you're not when 427 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: you're not talking about why certain areas look the way 428 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: that they do right and saying that you know why 429 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: it's cities and governments invest in certain areas or we 430 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: attribute everything back to your your the taxes, right, and 431 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: so if you're if you're wealthier and you have a 432 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: higher income, that is the basis of everything. And what 433 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: and what we need as a society is to move 434 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: away from that center and say, what is the basics 435 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: that we all need regard list of how much money 436 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: individually or community wide folks are bringing in, right that 437 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: it benefits the whole. If we have communities that are walkable, 438 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: that have clean air, that are safe with street lights, 439 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: and are well tended to, that benefits the whole. 440 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: And what I say is I just ask readers. Was 441 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: framing guns as a public health issue? Which I support 442 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 3: in many ways? Again I'm going to be giving disclaimers 443 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: until the cows come home, I guess, But was framing 444 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 3: guns as a political a public health issue? It was 445 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 3: a moral argument, a data argument, an academic argument, and 446 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: a mobilizing argument for a lot of people. But did 447 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: it lead to us having the kind of power that 448 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 3: impacted being able to mobilize the kind of resources you're 449 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 3: talking about which then let us create street lights and 450 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: parks and things like that. You actually have to win elections. 451 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 3: You have to know how power works. So that I 452 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 3: just feel like the coalition we built was not going 453 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 3: to do that. We were always going to be, in 454 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 3: effect a protest movement because we had no counterbalance to 455 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: the to the n RA, which wasn't the case. Like 456 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 3: with cigarettes and seat belts and all the other public 457 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: health campaigns we've fought, we've actually brought corporate America to 458 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: its knees in a way. But guns were a really 459 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 3: different issue again because of the politics of race in America, 460 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: and so the playbook we used for cigarettes was never 461 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 3: going to work for guns. Yeah, and but but again 462 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 3: we'll see how this goes. 463 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: You know. 464 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm really honest in this book. I'm 465 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: critiquing myself and even my own prior research, right, and 466 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 3: so but I just feel like I started to write 467 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: the book and I just thought like I can either 468 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 3: write a book that I know is just going to 469 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: be another book. I don't know. I just I really 470 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: thought a lot about this, and I really thought like 471 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: I just need to be really honest here, and it 472 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 3: it feels risky. I don't know how it's going to 473 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 3: turn out, but well, we'll see. But after it's published, 474 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: I'll tell you that I've had some pretty crazy interactions already, 475 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 3: have people saying I was selling out my own side, 476 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 3: and that's not my goal. I'm trying to help my 477 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 3: own side. 478 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Jonathan, you know that we're always here for you. 479 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: People. 480 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: But answer to your question, it's it's on Amazon already, 481 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 3: what we've become, and and and also I'll be having 482 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: a lot of events. In fact, maybe we could do 483 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 3: a live event in New York if you want, because 484 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 3: I'll be there right if it comes there, so cool. 485 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: Would love to all right, friend, folks, pick up Jonathan. 486 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: Pre order Jonathan's new book before it comes it comes 487 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: to the shelves to make sure that you get your copy, 488 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: and we will continue this conversation like we do every week. 489 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: Appreciate you, my friend. 490 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: Take care. 491 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends on will 492 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: g F as always Power to the people and to 493 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: all the people. 494 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 2: Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.