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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On

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Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue here is investment in marginalized community.

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Speaker 1: They want to deconstructive package and cherry pick what they

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Speaker 1: like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered with

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Speaker 1: major investments. Floomberg sound On, The insiders, the influencers, the

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Speaker 1: insides fighting has Thomas again and again that he will

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Speaker 1: unite the country. Who do you think Fiden has to

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Speaker 1: watch in terms of moderate defectors in protroductor has always

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Speaker 1: been by part of funder Bloomberg sound On on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick coming up on the show today. We've

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Speaker 1: got former Ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer coming on. We're

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Speaker 1: going to have to talk to him about everything happening

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Speaker 1: in Israel with apparently outgoing Prime Minister Benjamin net and Yahoo,

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Speaker 1: We've got Kevin Walling joining us. He's a democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: at Each G Creative Media, and of course, old reliable

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor is with us for us

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Speaker 1: talking about everything happening in Israel, the latest on infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and tax negotiations, a whole lot to talk about actually

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Speaker 1: on foreign policy and President Biden's plan to block investments

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Speaker 1: in fifty nine companies with ties to the Chinese military.

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Speaker 1: But before we dive head first into everything I just listed,

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Speaker 1: let's get a market update from Charlie. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Jack is back and here's what's going on. Lots of

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Speaker 1: earnings after the valve. Broadcom, one of the world's largest

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Speaker 1: chip makers, out with a polish forecast for quarterly sales,

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Speaker 1: signaling that corporations have returned to spending on their computer

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Speaker 1: networks as they open up offices up now by two

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Speaker 1: tenths of one percent After ours, Blululum and Athletic a

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Speaker 1: posting first quarter sales and an outlook for the full year,

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Speaker 1: but beat expectations as the company saw pickup in brick

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Speaker 1: and water traffic along with strong online sales. CrowdStrike boosted

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Speaker 1: it's adjusted earnings per share forecast for the full year,

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Speaker 1: the guidance beating the average ENLIS estimate shares a one

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Speaker 1: point four percent. Wall Streets focus very much on jobs.

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Speaker 1: We get the jobs report eight thirty am. Wall Street Time.

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Speaker 1: Complete coverage right here on Bloomberg Radio. Ahead of that report.

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Speaker 1: Down Thursday, equities fellows investors digested a raft of economic

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Speaker 1: data and a report President Biden may be open to

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Speaker 1: a lower corporate tax rate than SMP down fifteen drop

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Speaker 1: of four tenths of one percent to down down twenty three,

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Speaker 1: a drop of one tenth of one percent, and has

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Speaker 1: stacked down one forty want to drop there of one percent?

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Speaker 1: Tenure yield one point six two percent. I'm Charlie Pellett,

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Speaker 1: that old, reliable, and Jack is a Bloomberg Business flash.

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Speaker 1: All right, thank you, Charlie. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here with

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis, so insightful as he often is, Rick,

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Speaker 1: I was excited to talk to you about everything happening

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Speaker 1: in Israel because of your knowledge on foreign policy issues,

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Speaker 1: even before I knew that we were going to get

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Speaker 1: a call today and just a little bit from a

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Speaker 1: former ambassador to Israel and actually a former ambassador to Egypt,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Kurtzer. While we wait for him, Rick, let's run

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Speaker 1: through the basics of what we know. Benjamin neton Yah,

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Speaker 1: who would be ousted as the Prime Minister of Israel

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Speaker 1: under a deal struck by opposition leader mostly led by

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Speaker 1: opposition leader Yayer Lapide, with a variety of other parties,

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Speaker 1: and I should emphasize a real variety of other parties

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Speaker 1: because under this deal, assuming this gets a successful vote

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Speaker 1: by the Knesset later on, the prime minister next prime

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Speaker 1: Minister would be Naftali Bennett, who actually, by a lot

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Speaker 1: of measures, appears to be more of a a nationalist,

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Speaker 1: more of a farther right UH member than net and

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Speaker 1: Yahoo himself is a person who opposes Palestinian statehood UH.

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Speaker 1: He has pushed for an annexation of portions of the

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Speaker 1: West Bank. Now I believe we have Daniel Kurtzer joining us. Daniel,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for for come onto the show.

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Speaker 1: Really wanted somebody who could get into the details here.

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Speaker 1: Although I got to admit my first question on this

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Speaker 1: is a bit simple. This whole process of a new majority,

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Speaker 1: a new prime minister, This is subject to a vote,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds like they've got a very slim majority

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Speaker 1: in support of this. So just spell this out for me.

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Speaker 1: Is this actually going to happen? Is this a glide

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Speaker 1: path to having having a new prime minister? Is there

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Speaker 1: any risk of this falling apart at this point? Well,

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Speaker 1: the good news is that there are signed coalition agreements

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Speaker 1: among these eight parties, which if the Cannet that the

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Speaker 1: Israeli Parliament endorses this set of agreement, would represent a

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Speaker 1: new government. The questionable news is that the connected vote

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Speaker 1: might not take place for another eleven or twelve days,

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Speaker 1: during which time the current Prime Minister, Benjamin antan Yahoo

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Speaker 1: will pull out all stops from his playbook to try

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Speaker 1: to tear individuals away from especially the right wing parties

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Speaker 1: in this potential coalition and thereby deny them the majority

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Speaker 1: in the kinnessence. So it's certainly not over yet, But Nintanille,

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Speaker 1: who should be more worried today than any time in

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Speaker 1: the past twelve years. Sure, Now, from a US perspective,

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Speaker 1: how do you anticipate the Biden administration approaches this especially?

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Speaker 1: You know, they've been in a clearly a challenging position

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Speaker 1: with everything that's happened with Israel and Palestine previously. But

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Speaker 1: knowing that the Prime Minister is I guess likely to

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Speaker 1: be ousted and replaced, but I guess a a strong

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Speaker 1: opposition figure, there seems to be a lot of uncertainty.

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Speaker 1: How would you imagine the Biden administration approaches everything happening

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Speaker 1: in Israel? Well, they won't articulated this way, but there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a real sigh of relief should this

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Speaker 1: coalition in fact become the government. Remember that President Biden

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Speaker 1: spent eight years as Vice president during the Obama administration

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Speaker 1: when there was nothing but tension between President Obama and

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Natanya who uh personal tension, political tension with

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Speaker 1: Nintanya who courting the Republicans over the Democrats working behind

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Speaker 1: the President's back. So in one respect, this will be

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Speaker 1: an easier coalition to deal with because the Israeli parties

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Speaker 1: are going to go out of their way to try

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Speaker 1: to tell the Democrats that we love you too, not

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Speaker 1: just the Republicans. On the other hand, on the two

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Speaker 1: issues where there are substantive differences, Iran and the occupied territories,

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Speaker 1: there will still be challenges ahead, but probably a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier for the administration to handle. Sure, Now, could

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Speaker 1: you tell us, ambassador about a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: history between the US and the relevant players here, because

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Speaker 1: I believe Secretary of State Anthony B. Lincoln, in his

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Speaker 1: recent trip to the Middle East met with yaher Lapide

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Speaker 1: but not uh enof Tally Bennett. How much of a

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Speaker 1: personal relationship is there, whether from the Secretary of State

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Speaker 1: or the President, or anyone in the high up in

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Speaker 1: the U. S Government with the new principal players in Israel. Well, B.

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Speaker 1: Lincoln is here to protocol. After all, Lapide had been

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Speaker 1: given a mandate by the President of Israel to try

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Speaker 1: to form a coalition, and therefore it was acceptable for B.

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Speaker 1: Lincoln to meet with him. But I'm not aware that

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Speaker 1: there are pre existing relationships between senior administration officials and

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Speaker 1: almost anyone else in this UH coalition that's emerging, except

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Speaker 1: for the Defense Minister Benny Gainst, who was the current

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Speaker 1: Defense Minister and has been in that role for the

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Speaker 1: past almost three years, and our defense establishment. We probably

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Speaker 1: don't know Bennett all that well. UH. We certainly don't

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Speaker 1: know some of the leaders of the smaller parties, including

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Speaker 1: the first time that an Israeli Our party has entered

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Speaker 1: the coalition. So there's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 1: introductions necessary. Ambassadors, wondering if I could follow up on

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Speaker 1: a point you were making just a minute ago about Iran. UH,

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Speaker 1: does this give if this government sticks, and of course

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Speaker 1: you you point out that we have twelve days of

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Speaker 1: uncertainty there. But if it does stick, Um, doesn't the

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Speaker 1: dynamic here give the Biden administration and opening to try

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Speaker 1: and work their will on a new Iran deal, where

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Speaker 1: before Prime Minister Nitt Yahoo was a real obstruction to that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that's true, except with the fact

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Speaker 1: that Iran is on the eve of its own elections

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Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks and the position of

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Speaker 1: the Anians in the negotiations in Vienna has hardened rather considerably.

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Speaker 1: So on the one hand, one would think that this

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Speaker 1: would be a more propitious time for the administration to

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Speaker 1: cut the deal, to go back into the nuclear chord uh,

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Speaker 1: and to try to deal then with the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: that with the Israeli government. But we might not get

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Speaker 1: to that nuclear chord because of the internal Iranian politics,

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Speaker 1: which means this could drag on for some time. Ambassador,

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Speaker 1: I want to double back on your characterization of the

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Speaker 1: US probably breathing a sigh of relief here. Is there

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Speaker 1: a reason could you explain why does the presence of

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Speaker 1: Naftali Bennett as apparently the next prime minister for two

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Speaker 1: years before Yare Lapide would take over. Uh, my understanding,

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Speaker 1: and I'm a layman compared to you, obviously on this

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Speaker 1: My under standing is he's he's not too much of

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Speaker 1: a moderate or how would you characterize the stances of

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Speaker 1: Bennett and and why why is he not going to

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Speaker 1: make things more difficult for the US for the next

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Speaker 1: two years in your opinion, Well, Bennett personally and the

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Speaker 1: members of his party are actually further to the right,

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Speaker 1: if we could call it that. Then Prime Minister Netanyahu

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Speaker 1: uh no interest in the two state solution. UH. Bennett

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Speaker 1: has advocated for Palestinian autonomy, meaning they wouldn't get an

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Speaker 1: independent state. So if Bennett were an independent actor here,

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Speaker 1: it would be a tougher moment for the administration. But

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Speaker 1: this is a wall to wall coalition that includes UH

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Speaker 1: three parties way to the left of Bennett, the Arid

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Speaker 1: Party were on, the Merits Party, which is a socialist

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Speaker 1: party of sorts, and the Israeli Labor Party, as well

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Speaker 1: as two other parties that are to his left, although

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Speaker 1: more centrists, meaning the Blue and White Party and Lapete's

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Speaker 1: own UH party. So you have this this UH strange

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Speaker 1: combination of parties with very different viewpoints that are going

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Speaker 1: to constrain then its independence of action just in order

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Speaker 1: to keep the coalition together and for that reason alone,

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Speaker 1: there may be some hope that it will be a

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Speaker 1: moderating impact on than its own tendencies. Ambassa, It's nice

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Speaker 1: to see that there's another country that has more complexity

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Speaker 1: around their domestic political situation than maybe the US does

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Speaker 1: these days. I wanted to ask you about how this

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Speaker 1: might impact the region. We saw in the recent years

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Speaker 1: a lot of peace initiatives, the Abraham Act chords signed

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Speaker 1: throughout the region with Israel um primission. Ninyat made it

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Speaker 1: his signature initiative to open up relations with a lot

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Speaker 1: of the goal Uh countries UM. And then came the

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Speaker 1: fight between them and Hamas UH and and now the elections.

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Speaker 1: Does this have a salutary effect on those new relationships

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Speaker 1: in the region or do you see them actually being

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Speaker 1: part of the infrastructure now that can help hold all

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Speaker 1: these things together. Well, I think the relationships with the

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Speaker 1: Arab states are pretty solid, and they relate to Israel

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Speaker 1: not so much suits and personally. Uh. These were four

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Speaker 1: countries that we're looking for a little bit of an

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Speaker 1: anchor against the Iranian aggressive activities in the region. They

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Speaker 1: wanted access to Israeli high tech and other benefits, intelligence

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Speaker 1: and so forth. That they could get from Israel. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think the change of government for Arab states

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Speaker 1: is going to make much of a difference. Uh And frankly,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately, I don't think it's going to make much

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Speaker 1: of a difference with Palestinians, where this recent war has

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Speaker 1: taken struct a toll that they're going to be very

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Speaker 1: skeptical of any Israeli government, including this one. Ambassador, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. That was Ambassador Daniel Kurtzert.

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Speaker 1: I am Jack Fitzpatrick here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be joined by Kevin Walling, democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: at h G Creative Media, talking about everything in foreign

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Speaker 1: policy and infrastructure negotiations. Speaking of infrastructure and tax negotiations.

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Speaker 1: Earlier today, my colleague David Weston interviewed House Majority Whip

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Speaker 1: Jim Clyburn and they talked about the need for an

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Speaker 1: infrastructure deal and whether Democrats are going to need to

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Speaker 1: go it alone. Let's play the sound on that. From

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Speaker 1: your point of view, how are we doing on getting

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Speaker 1: this infrastructure bill done? Well, we are all still negotiating.

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Speaker 1: And I don't blame Biden for attention to do that.

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Speaker 1: I don't not know whether or not he's making much progress,

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Speaker 1: but you ought to make the f He promised you

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Speaker 1: American people that he would do what he could to

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Speaker 1: reach across the aisle, to try to do thinking a

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Speaker 1: bipartisans way. So he must give it his best definite

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Speaker 1: And now I think the American people can see if

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Speaker 1: the other side is being a bit uh, let's just

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Speaker 1: sit reticent in doing so. Most people who talked to

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Speaker 1: us say that time sort of a wasting So there

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Speaker 1: will come a time perhaps when they have to either

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Speaker 1: fish or cut bait. When is that time when the

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Speaker 1: President may have to decide whether to go it without

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Speaker 1: the Republicans or to go or to stick with it

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Speaker 1: biparterisan approach. Well, I won't say we're wasting time. I

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Speaker 1: might say be running out of time, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's ever a waste of time to try to communicate.

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Speaker 1: I believe very strongly that we all to keep the

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Speaker 1: lines of communist ucastion open, but I don't think we

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Speaker 1: should uh run the risk of not getting something done

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Speaker 1: because the other side is not cooperated. Right now, they

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Speaker 1: are not cooperating. But Joe Biden knows that very well.

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Speaker 1: He was there in two thousand and nine as vice

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Speaker 1: president when they did this song and dance Pitt Barack

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Speaker 1: Obama and refused to give the man the kind of

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Speaker 1: support that he was deserving of, and Joe Biden suffered

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Speaker 1: along with the rest of the people in the country.

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Speaker 1: He is not going to allow that to happen again.

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Speaker 1: There has been a July for deadline, talked about it.

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Speaker 1: When I get something done? Is that still operative? To

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Speaker 1: use the word that is frequently used in Washington, well,

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Speaker 1: I know, I hate to put dates on things. I

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Speaker 1: think that, Uh, they've got people up there. They don't

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Speaker 1: know their timetable much better than I do. They know

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Speaker 1: what they're planning to do, they know when they've got

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Speaker 1: to do it. We're gonna leave for the so called

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Speaker 1: August break at the end of July, and so I

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Speaker 1: suspect that the President would like to have something on

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Speaker 1: his desk before he goes out and off. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about spending more money, federal government money. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: how we spent the last under the Cares Act. Because

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Speaker 1: I know that you are particularly involved an investigation of

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Speaker 1: the Southern Corporation in which there are some del balance

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Speaker 1: now you sent some letters to Department of Defense and

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Speaker 1: Department Treasury tell us about that. Well, Uh, this so

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Speaker 1: called Yellow Corporation has a very spotty record. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: received a seven hundred million dollar loan. UH, and it's

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Speaker 1: very questionable as well not they were they're serving of

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Speaker 1: that loan. Even UH Secretary Manugin himself uh said that

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Speaker 1: loan had problems, but they gave it to them anyway.

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Speaker 1: And we are looking to see whether or not fraud

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Speaker 1: and abuse took place here because not just because of us. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the history the Justice Department of Justice,

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Speaker 1: they've been suing them uh for overcharging the Department of

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Speaker 1: Defense over a period of seven years. And so if

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Speaker 1: you look out a comfortive with that record, uh, and

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Speaker 1: you look at the application and you look see something

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Speaker 1: a bit dubious, and you do it anyway, then it

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Speaker 1: says to me that your part and possil of the problem.

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Speaker 1: So the previous administration did not do a good job

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Speaker 1: of vetting people making sure that the Cares Act money

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Speaker 1: was spent properly. And my select subcommittee has the responsibility

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Speaker 1: of looking into all of these matters and making some

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Speaker 1: determination as to whether or not there's fraud and abuse

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Speaker 1: taking place, and as I always say, we are trying

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Speaker 1: to make sure that this money is spent efficiently, effectively,

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Speaker 1: and equitably. And I put fairness in that as well.

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Speaker 1: So Congress money, if in fact your investigation turns out

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Speaker 1: that it was not given appropriately, there were perhaps misreption

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Speaker 1: centations made, is there any hope of recouping the seven

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars. Well, I'll leave it up to those

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Speaker 1: people who are responsible for doing that. Our responsibility is

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Speaker 1: to find the facts. When we get the facts, we

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Speaker 1: will submit them to the proper authoritists. Uh, and we'll

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Speaker 1: see what happens. Uh. So I'm not gonna get ahead

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Speaker 1: of myself on this. I'm gonna just continue to do

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Speaker 1: what we authorized to do, and then we'll see what

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Speaker 1: the other agencies that have a different portfolio do with

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Speaker 1: the information content. Are there any other companies that are

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Speaker 1: like the Southern Corporation at this point? Yes, there are companies.

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Speaker 1: I will make it an announcements about them today, But

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Speaker 1: this is not the only one by a lun shot,

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Speaker 1: all right. That was Bloomberg's David Weston within an exclusive

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Speaker 1: interview this morning with House Majority with James Clyburne with

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Speaker 1: a little spin forward on maybe future investigations on where

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Speaker 1: all the COVID money has gone. I am Jack Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis, and joining

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Speaker 1: us on the line now is Kevin Walling. He's a

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Speaker 1: democratic strategist at h G Creative Media and also a

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Speaker 1: former Biden campaign surrogate. Now, Kevin. Earlier we heard from

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Speaker 1: Daniel Kurtzer, a former ambassador to Israel, who explained everything

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Speaker 1: we needed to know about Israel, and one thing that

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Speaker 1: stood out to me, and I'm curious where what your

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Speaker 1: expectations are on this is uh. The ambassador said, Look,

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Speaker 1: this is probably going to lead the US side, the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration to breathe a sigh of relief, even though Uh,

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Speaker 1: the next prime minister would be by many accounts more

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Speaker 1: conservative or more nationalists, however you want to put it,

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Speaker 1: then Prime Minister net and Yahoo, I'm I'm curious with

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Speaker 1: all that in mind, with the the uncertainty about how

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Speaker 1: the next few years look in Israel, what what is

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Speaker 1: your anticipation How do you anticipate the Biden administration would

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Speaker 1: approach everything there? Yeah, Jack, Rick, it's gonna be back

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Speaker 1: with you all. I really enjoyed the conversation with the

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Speaker 1: former investador. Uh. And you know, it's any question as

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Speaker 1: to what will actually take place, you know, I I

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Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't count bb net and Yahoo out. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's clinging on for dear life. You know, he vowed

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Speaker 1: today tonight to keep pushing against this agreement. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me to see eight different political parties

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Speaker 1: with the far less the far right united in this coalition.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly going to be I think, you know, very

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Speaker 1: interesting dynamics with how the Biden administration will approach this

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Speaker 1: new kind of, for lack of a better word, unity government, uh,

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Speaker 1: in the coming days and weeks. Jen Psaki was asked

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Speaker 1: about that today from the podium, and she kind of

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Speaker 1: deferred and said, you know, we'll let the Israelis decide

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Speaker 1: for themselves in terms of the government going forward and

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Speaker 1: kind of a hands off approach. Uh. You know, obviously

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Speaker 1: the former guy Donald Trump would have likely expressed his

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Speaker 1: support very clearly. Uh. So it's kind of a change

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Speaker 1: in pace with the Biden administration taking kind of a

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Speaker 1: backwards look at what's going on in the state of Israel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're making a good point. I think the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: clearly has to try to play it safe, not swing

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Speaker 1: wildly here. Now I'm curious, Rick, what you made of

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Speaker 1: this the anticipation that this, as Kevin said, very diverse

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Speaker 1: coalition left right and center, seemingly would have a moderating

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Speaker 1: effect on the person who is supposed to be the

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Speaker 1: next prime minister, not Tally Bennett, who does not really

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Speaker 1: want to see a two state solution. It sounds like,

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Speaker 1: do you buy the former ambassador's explanation that when you

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Speaker 1: have such a broad coalition that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: moderating effect on him or what? Rick, what are your

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Speaker 1: expectations for the person who appears to be in line

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Speaker 1: to be the next Prime minister of Israel? Yeah? This

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Speaker 1: is uh, what Kevin said is true. This is MAGA

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Speaker 1: meets AOC in the same coalition. How do you keep

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Speaker 1: that group together? I mean, that's more likely to start

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Speaker 1: a fight than with hamas Um So Benn, it's got Benn,

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Speaker 1: it's got a limited mandate, right, I mean he's got

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Speaker 1: to keep a coalition together that's incredibly diverse. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: he's going to do it in a free fire political

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Speaker 1: exercise by uh former prime minister. If they take over

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Speaker 1: the post b bing nitt Yahoo, He's not going to

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Speaker 1: leave this alone, and so the challenge is going to

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Speaker 1: be steep, and it will probably have to have a

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Speaker 1: moderating influence because Bennett is uh arguably more conservative than

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Speaker 1: being nint Yahoo, but he rules a coalition with people

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Speaker 1: who are diametrically opposed to many of those nintin Yahoo policies,

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Speaker 1: and so um, you know, maybe it's a moment in

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Speaker 1: time where people will put their country interests ahead of

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Speaker 1: their political interests. I think that's the notion around this

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Speaker 1: coalition is that we can't keep having elections. They've had,

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Speaker 1: you know, numerous elections over a short period of time

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Speaker 1: and it has not resulted in a positive domestic situation.

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Speaker 1: So um uh, we'll see how long this lasts. It

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Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me that they're going to wind up in

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Speaker 1: elections again sometime soon. But in the meantime, it does

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Speaker 1: I think give a break to the Biden administration. This

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Speaker 1: was an unwelcome intrusion into their foreign policy strategy. They

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Speaker 1: didn't want to have to deal with a mini war

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East and so, uh, if this can

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Speaker 1: keep that from rearing up again, I think it'll be

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Speaker 1: considered positive in Washington. So let's broaden the scope scope

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Speaker 1: a little bit. On foreign policy, Rick, I'm I'm curious

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Speaker 1: what you're looking forward to in the next What is

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Speaker 1: it a week and a half from now? First? Were

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Speaker 1: we heard today that President Biden is going to meet

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Speaker 1: with Turkish President Air Towan on June during his Europe trip.

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Speaker 1: At the end of that, Biden is going to meet

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Speaker 1: with Vladimir Putin. That news broke earlier, but today it

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Speaker 1: came up that Biden does plan to raise this issue

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Speaker 1: of hackers that maybe op rating out of Russia. Recently

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Speaker 1: we we heard not only about the Colonial pipeline hack,

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Speaker 1: but the JBS meat processor hack. Uh. What is on

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Speaker 1: your radar? Rick? Obviously those are two big uh newsmakers.

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Speaker 1: How do how do you think this goes? I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine that that Europe trip on the whole keeps things

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Speaker 1: sort of quiet and uh and and predictable for the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration. What are you looking for holistically in the

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Speaker 1: next week and a half or so on foreign policy

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Speaker 1: for Biden? Yeah? I think in both those situations you

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, um, you know, with Urdawan in Turkey, and

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Speaker 1: and and and and Vladimir Putin, They're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: find where the boundaries are because the last thing I

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Speaker 1: think that this administration wants to do is returned to

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Speaker 1: some kind of cold war status with with the Russians

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Speaker 1: and potentially, um, you know, get into a situation where

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Speaker 1: they can't have a constructive dialogue in Turkey. Turkey is

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Speaker 1: a member of NATO. We've had enormous bad run with them, UH,

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Speaker 1: most notable and sort of UH exemplified by UH Urdawan's

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Speaker 1: last visit to Washington where one of his bodyguards assaulted

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Speaker 1: in a protester. I mean, it's just really bad karma

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Speaker 1: in the relationship with Turkey and and and and Yet

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Speaker 1: as a regional ally, it's really important and we find

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Speaker 1: a way to deal with those guys on on on

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Speaker 1: the hack UH, increased UH sanctions are on the table,

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Speaker 1: and and Biden's going to have to deliver a very

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Speaker 1: strong message to Putin that that this is now one

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Speaker 1: of the top issues, and he's going to have to

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Speaker 1: wrestle it as a domestic issue because it's it's really

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Speaker 1: affecting the functioning of our infrastructure, especially impacted by the

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Speaker 1: Colonial pipeline attacked by Dark Side, a Russian based hacking group.

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Speaker 1: So I think this is going to be a fascinating month.

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Speaker 1: Normally the summer is pretty quiet, but not this summer.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Owned on on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 1: It's a Thursday afternoon. I'm here with Rick Davis, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Politics contributor, and we've got Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at

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Speaker 1: h G Creative Media on with us. We've got to

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Speaker 1: talk about the person who seems to be the man

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Speaker 1: of the hour. Just about all the time, we've been

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Speaker 1: talking so much about the centrality of Senator Joe Mansion, uh,

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Speaker 1: Democrat of West Virginia on infrastructure, negotiations, on taxes. Have

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Speaker 1: you guys seen this? Uh this this became a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a Twitter thing. It's a picture of what

431
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: looks like a futuristic city with people flying around saying

432
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: this is going to be West Virginia when Democrats are

433
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: done with all their earmarks that Joe Mansion gets. Um.

434
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: Rick tell me about Joe Mansion not only though on

435
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: infrastructure and taxes, but I think he probably is going

436
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: to play a central role on almost anything else Democrats

437
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: want to do. On on voting rights, it's set or

438
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: uh what At what point does do Democrats just crown

439
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: Joe Mansion almost the leader and the decider, the arbiter

440
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: of what they're able to get done. Yeah. I recall

441
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: after the Georgia elections where we realized for the first

442
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: time we were going to have a fifty fifty Senate um,

443
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: everybody sort of pulled out their guide book and discovered

444
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: Joe mentioned as a center from West Virginia who really was,

445
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: you know, the most moderate uh slash conservative Democratic senator

446
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: and realized that he was going to be the fifty

447
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: first vote on almost every major issue. And now we

448
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: see it happening. We see his importance on the current debate.

449
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Even his UH co star from West Virginia, shelleymore Capital,

450
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: is the lead negotiator for the Republicans and uh and

451
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: without Joe Mansion's acquiescence, the Democrats can't move forward on

452
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: a deal. And in the same on voting rights. I mean,

453
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: he's been a stickler on the Democrats very high priority

454
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: voting rights bill, a way to combat what's happening at

455
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: the state level. By the g O P. And they

456
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: can't get him to budge and they can't move that

457
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: bill without his support. With it, they get what they want.

458
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: So I think that that that he's been very circumspect on,

459
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, saying what he would and wouldn't be for

460
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: until the deal is cut. But I can't imagine a

461
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: more important person in Washington right now than Senator Joe Mansion. Well,

462
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: and speaking of the the voting rights issue and how

463
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: everything could hinge on Mansion on voting rights, uh, in

464
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: addition to infrastructure, Kevin, I mean, voting rights doesn't seem

465
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: like something that Democrats can do on their own anyway.

466
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: Maybe there's frustration right now with Mansion saying we've got

467
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: to have bipartisan talks on infrastructure because there's the assumption

468
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: that Democrats could do a lot of that in a

469
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: partisan way with the budget process budget reconciliation. But I

470
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: don't think they could really do much on voting rights

471
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: without bipartisans support. So, I mean, Kevin, do you do

472
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: you see Mansion as the central figure on that kind

473
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: of thing as he has been on a fiscal issue

474
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: like infrastructure. Absolutely, Jack, And the Rick's point is a

475
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: good one. I mean talk about his state delegation hitting

476
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: above its weight between Joe mansion and chilling more capital

477
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 1: from from West Virginia and harkins back to when Probert

478
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: Herb was the majority leader in every new building built

479
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: in West Virginia was built by the said I think

480
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: for decades. Um. But you know, to to your point,

481
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's a fifty fifties split obviously with budget

482
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: reconciliation on an infrastructure package if these talks uh collapse.

483
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right, you know, in terms of h

484
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: S one, HR one, the For the People Act that

485
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: addresses a lot of these concerns on the national level

486
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: level with voting right, that's got to be most likely

487
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: a bipartisan vote H for anything regarding those kinds of issues,

488
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: And that's what Joe mentioned has pushed for Kirsen Cinema.

489
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: His colleague from Arizona is supportive of HR one S one,

490
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: but not obviously blowing up the filibuster because of that truth.

491
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: Asked this week again about that and and climbed to, uh,

492
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: you know, talk about blowing up the filibuster. So these

493
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: kinds of non financial related issues to certainly have to

494
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: have some kind of bipartisan support to you know that

495
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: sixty vote market. Yeah. I had to raise this because

496
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: I really just want to know ultimately, how many school

497
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: gyms or parking facilities are going to be named the

498
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: Joseph Mansion the third uh gymnasium or or parking parking structure.

499
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: By the way, guys, I had to mention, as Charlie

500
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: Pellett did in the update earlier, Uh, the death of

501
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: f Lee Bailey, who is the defense attorney? Uh you

502
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: know the actually the headline on the Bloomberg terminal as

503
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: f Lee Bailey defender of the famous and notorious dies

504
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: at eighties seven. He had clients such as O. J.

505
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: Simpson had to had to touch on this, Rick, can

506
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: you some up how how is this? How is he

507
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: going to be remembered? I think probably a legacy dominated

508
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: by the Simin trial. But can you reflect on on

509
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: I mean, this seems like something that clearly was a

510
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: person who was sort of dominant in the zeitgeist to

511
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 1: some extent in in the nineties. What are your thoughts

512
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: of this news? Jack, You're so right, I mean I

513
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: grew up with ef Lee Bailey. I mean he was

514
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: an important public figure from the time I started watching

515
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: the evening news with my parents. Uh he he he

516
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: was notorious too. You described just perfectly because the first

517
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: instance that I recall of him, he was he was

518
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: representing the commander of a military unit that that did

519
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: something that has been settled to history called the Melee

520
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: massacre in Vietnam in night and and and American soldiers

521
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: killed five hundred villagers one day, and and the commander

522
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: was put for trial. And guess who his lawyer was,

523
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: ef Lee Bailey. Everybody deserved a good lawyer, and ef

524
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: Lee Bailey was was was taking a very unpopular stand

525
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: by representing this commander, and yet made enormous amount of

526
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: press and attention uh in that in that case, and

527
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: and it only went from there. I mean, you don't

528
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: have to look very far in history to see his

529
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: fingerprints on almost every one of the really high profile

530
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: legal cases, uh throughout that the next five decades. And

531
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: so his his loss is an end of an era.

532
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: Uh And and maybe a lot of people will say

533
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: that's one era that we just as soon forget about,

534
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: right right, they think the end of an era. It's

535
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: hard to sum up the legacy, but the the end

536
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: of an era whether you're you're got positive or negative feelings,

537
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: very significant. Had to raise that. By the way, I

538
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: want to touch on one other thing that came up today.

539
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: Earlier today, the President announced he is signing an order

540
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: blocking the investment in fifty nine companies tied to China's military.

541
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: This is a an amendment of a Trump move, but

542
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: actually an expansion of the number of of come and

543
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: he's blocked. They were relying on one report by d

544
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: O D. Now the Treasury will do another report. This affects, obviously,

545
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: I think unsurprisingly companies like Huawei, major telecom companies in China.

546
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: Kevin I, I I want to get your take on it.

547
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: Actually seems like Biden ended up being more of a

548
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: China hawk in this move than Trump was with the

549
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: initial move, where at least it's more companies affected. Is

550
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: that the result in your mind, is that the result

551
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: of some sort of political pressure on Biden. He seems

552
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: to face a lot of pressure not backing down on China.

553
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: What's the logic that you think went into this kind

554
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: of move. Yeah, it's a good question, Jack. Of course,

555
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: it builds on the the executive order by the previous

556
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: administration under Donald Trump. You know, China is actually something

557
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: that actually unites Republicans and Democrats. We're seeing you know,

558
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, Mark Kelly, Liz Cheney in a letter, you know,

559
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: pushing the administration to do more in terms of identifying

560
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: these these as part of this order. And it could

561
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: be a rare kind of strike of bipartisanship assigned from

562
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: these ongoing conversations on infrastructure with the China question, and

563
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: it's you know, not just in terms of military uh investments,

564
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: but obviously the president has raised the issue of human rights.

565
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: You know, you're seeing the administration you know, speak out

566
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: a bit more in terms of the origins of the

567
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen so against This is kind of an

568
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: interesting issue because again it's one of these rare kind

569
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: of bipartisan moments that we're seeing play out. It was

570
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: support of the administration. Yeah, Rick, were you surprised by that?

571
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm curious. I know there there was

572
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: the thought that the original Trump move may not have

573
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: had a lot of legal backing and it could have

574
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: been struck down in court and maybe uh, doing this

575
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: new report through Treasury solidifies it legally. But Biden probably

576
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: could have gone with something similar a similar number of companies,

577
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: rather than a significant increase in companies getting investment blocked

578
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: Chinese companies. Uh, what do you what's your your reasoning

579
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: here for for this move by Biden? Rick, Yeah, some

580
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: of the some of it is exactly what you describe, Jack,

581
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean a move to try and perfect the legal language.

582
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: I think court court had either put pressure on or

583
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: thrown out a couple of the designations because they didn't

584
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: fit a court requirement, UH, legal requirement. So some of

585
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: it was to perfect that, and some of it was

586
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: to send a message right that that that our policy

587
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: is going to be consistent with China. He's not going

588
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: to uh President Biden's not going to get soft on

589
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: China all of a sudden, which was a criticism that

590
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: the president uh labeled on him during the campaign. Right,

591
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: if we're gonna end things on a lighter note, I

592
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: just this is too strange not to mention. AP reported

593
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: today a New Mexico sheriff who's running for mayor of

594
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: Albuquerque was interrupted on stage at a campaign event by

595
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: a flying drone with let's say an adult toy attached

596
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: to it, and also a man who punched him. Uh,

597
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: have you guys, seen anything stranger when the lead doesn't

598
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: even lead with the guy getting punched at a campaign event,

599
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: can you guys think of anything straight? Rick, have you

600
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: seen anything stranger than that in your career? No? And

601
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: if you want to find strange things, always focus on

602
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: the sheriff's race because they are the most interesting races

603
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: in any state. Oh but well, I moved to the

604
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: DC from Maricopa County, Arizona, so I have to have

605
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: to agree with you on sheriff politics. Guys. That's that's

606
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: just about it for us. On a Thursday afternoon, Thank

607
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: you again to former Ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer for

608
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: joining us and walking through everything happening in Israel. Rick Davis,

609
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Kevin Walling, thank you for joining us.

610
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: A Democratic strategist at h G Creative Media. That's it

611
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: for me. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg