WEBVTT - Epstein Files Meltdown & Climate Change 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.080 Attorney General Pam Bondi used to say that the Jeffrey 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.800 Epstein files would be released. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.360 You know, tens of thousands of pages of documents and 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:24.280 hundreds and hundreds of victims of Jeffrey Epstein. So the 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.120 FBI they have been working round the clock at my directive, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.120 at Kashptel's directive. Now Dan Bongino's there. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.159 Who is a great asset for all of us at 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.000 the FBI as well. But yeah, we have to protect 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.159 their identity, their personal information to make sure they're safe. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.640 But other than that, we are releasing all of these 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.200 documents as soon as we can get them redacted. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.280 That was Bondi on Fox in March. Now the question 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.280 is whether even a congressional subpoena will make the Attorney 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.760 General release the files, particularly in light of a Wall 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.360 Street Journal report that Bondi toll President Trump. His name 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.319 appears multiple times in the finals. As pressure on the 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:12.399 administration to release the Epstein files grows, the Justice Department 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.920 is taking a detour, apparently casting itself as searching for 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:21.680 more information on the Epstein case, with Deputy Attorney General 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.959 Todd Blanche meeting today with Glaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's former 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.520 girlfriend who's serving a twenty year sentence in Florida. Joining 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.120 me is Dave Ehrenberg, former Palm Beach County State Attorney. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.320 Dave the number two person at the Justice Department, Todd Blanche, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.880 Trump's former criminal defense attorney, is meeting with a convicted 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:51.000 sex trafficker, Gallaine Maxwell, that the Justice Department successfully prosecuted, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.880 and it comes as she's appealing her twenty twenty one conviction. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.360 How odd is this? 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:03.920 It's extremely odd because generally the number two person at 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:09.720 the deparminative Justice doesn't conduct interviews with potential witnesses, especially 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:15.240 those who have already been convicted by their department of 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.520 such a serious crime. I mean, why would you ever 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.160 believe anything this woman says. He's not only a convicted 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.360 human trafficker, but she's also a liar. She was indicted 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.919 for perjury back in twenty twenty and she is someone 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.760 who is untrustworthy. But both sides want something here. She 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.920 meaning Glen Maxwell, wants a pardon from the President who's 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:42.359 very transactional, and President Trump wants her to exonerate him 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.679 to say that Trump had nothing to do with any 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.119 of the crimes. Now, I personally believe that Trump had 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.959 nothing to do with any of the crimes. But there's 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.320 a lot of smoke here because of Trump's name being 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.920 in the Epstein files. And you know what they say, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.000 it's not the crime but the cover up. And the 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.000 cover up here is to prevent the release of these 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.840 files when you promised it over and over again to 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.800 your supporters. So, yes, this whole thing is extraordinary. Not 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.040 the lease of which is that the number two person 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.799 of the Department of Justice doesn't get on a plane 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.959 and get a briefcase in a notepad and start acting 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.480 like a line prosecutor. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.000 Bland said he wants to know if Glaine Maxwell has 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.280 information about anyone who has committed crimes against victims. But 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.880 the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, has said that nothing in 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:34.240 the files warranted further investigation or prosecution. So what's going on? 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.560 This is about CYA. It's to protect Donald Trump. This 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.440 is to protect him because his name is in the files. Now, 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.800 his supporters were led to believe that anyone whose names 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:48.840 in the files must have committed some crimes. They were 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.400 led to believe that the number one name in the 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.880 file would be Bill Clinton, filed by Bill Gates and 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.360 then every other prominent Democrat. Of course, they were lied to, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.440 they were made to look like fools. I mean, these 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.480 folks thrive on conspiracy theories and now they're outraged and 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.480 they're ready to revolt. So the administration is trying to 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.560 placate them further by saying, see, we'll get more information 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:14.240 from this disgraced, convicted human trafficker. Well, what makes you 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.640 think she'll be telling the truth? She has every incentive 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.240 to lie. She's lie before, she will lie again. Anything 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.159 that she says should be corroborated. And then if she 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.760 says something to Todd blanche who was President of Trump's 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.800 former defense lawyer, his personal defense lawyer, what makes you 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.720 think will make its way to the public if it 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.559 at all implicates Donald Trump. So this is not how 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.960 an investigation should be done. And if the administration wanted 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.640 full transparency, they should just release the file subject to 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.560 court orders and other privacy concerns involving the victims, and 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.479 then I think people would start to move on from 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.359 this story. But until that happens, this story ain't going away. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.560 Did you think that she's talking to Blanche. If she 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.719 is talking to Blanche, do you think that she's talking 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.240 to him under some kind of agreement like queen for 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.000 a day where nothing you say is going to be 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:06.920 used against you. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.120 Her lawyers would never allow her to talk to a prosecutor, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.640 even if it's the number two person at the Department 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.280 of Justice and not aligned prosecutor. They would never let 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.280 her talk to anyone without a guarantee that she has 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.320 immunity for at least those comments on that day. So 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.880 some call it a Queen for the day. But she's 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:32.320 not going to jeopardize her appeal and her potential because 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.919 she has an appeal pending if she is retried. She 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.280 doesn't want this information to come back and haunt her. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.000 So she wants something out of Donald Trump. She wants 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.520 a pardon, and she's probably going to be willing to 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.240 say anything to get it, but she doesn't want it 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.880 to come back at her in a future trial. So yes, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.640 she will get some sort of immunity before she speaks 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.360 to Todd Blash. Now she goes before Congress, that too 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.839 will require immunity because her lawyers, I would think, would 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.039 have the same issue They don't want her to implicate 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.120 herself any more than she already has. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.560 Her brother told The New York Post that she's compiling 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:10.000 new evidence pretending to allege government misconduct stemming from her trial, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.760 to hand over to the Justice Department. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:18.280 Every criminal defendant believes that there's government misconduct for their case, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.040 especially if you're convicted. So yeah, she's going to compile 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.480 her evidence. Meanwhile, she had any real evidence that could 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.400 be of use to the government to release the victims 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.560 and to the public, she would have done so already 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.800 because now she's facing twenty years in prison. She's not 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.440 getting out until she's seventy five years old at the earliest. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.839 And so if she didn't have the goods back then, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.479 why would we believe she has the goods now. I 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.120 think there's a desperate woman who was willing to say anything. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.600 She'll do anything for a pardon. She does not want 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:53.400 to spend her next decade or so behind bars. She's 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.760 not used to this lifestyle. She's used to the high life, 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.440 life of privilege, life of prestige, and now she's the 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.239 only one being locked up for the whole Jeffrey Epstein 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.480 saga because Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:12.600 Dave about the congressional subpoena. The House Overside Chair Republican 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.480 James Comer has subpoenaed Maxwell for a deposition. In what 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.720 circumstances would her lawyer allow her to testify? How would 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.600 that kind of testimony help her at all? 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.760 It will help her if she publicly exonerates President Trump. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.600 It will help her get a pardon. That's what she's 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.560 aiming for. She wants either a pardon a commutation. She 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.560 wants the Department of Justice to not retry the case 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.720 if she wins on her appeal, which is going before 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.440 the Supreme Court. So there are things that Trump can 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.240 offer her, and that's why she'll be doing this. Otherwise, 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:47.920 there's no reason for her to be doing this. I mean, 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:53.000 she's a convicted human trafficker, she's a proven liar. She's 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.960 a criminal. And for the Magabase, which thinks that Jeffrey 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.040 Epstein is Satan himself, to me how they're willing to 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.800 roll out the red carpet for Satan's accomplice. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.400 The House Oversight sub Committee voted Wednesday to subpoena the 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:14.080 DOJ for the Epstein files. And they're not only looking 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.560 for the files, but also communications between former Biden officials 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:24.360 and the Justice Department related to the Epstein matter. Well, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.600 the Justice Department hand them over, especially now that the 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:32.360 Wall Street Journal has reported that Bondie and Blanche informed 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.520 the President in May that his name appears multiple times 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:37.840 in the Epstein files. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.640 Oh, the Department of Justice is not giving Congress anything 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.679 with Donald Trump's name in it. So if they give 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.040 up the Epstein file, maybe will be a redacted version 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.240 of it. But they're not going to do anything to 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.000 harm the Boss. I mean, that's why the folks are 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.560 there to begin with. That's why Donald Trump put his 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.280 two defense lawyers at top positions at the Department of Justice. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.600 That's why I picked the loyalists like Pam Bondi to 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.120 be Attorney General. He doesn't want this thing to get 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.480 out of hand and get a mind of its own. 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.840 That's why he's not going to appoint a special counsel. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.800 People said, we should have a special counsel. Yeah, well, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.240 I remember Bill Clinton had a special counsel. You remember 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.480 Janerino stepped aside and had Kenneth Starr investigate Whitewater. Well, 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.240 the investigation in Whitewater became an investigation into Monica Lewinsky 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.319 and led to Bill Clinton's impeachment. Donald Trump doesn't want 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.240 to go down that road. He wants to button this 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.600 thing up. But the irony is in his attempt to 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.480 cut this off at its knees, he has prolonged the agony. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.040 It's not the crime, it's the cover up. And it 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.679 looks like there's been a cover up here, at least 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.040 the many in the public, which is why people are 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:42.960 still talking about this. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.640 Does Congress have any levers to pull to force the 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:48.840 Justice Department on this? 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.720 They can subpoena the documents and then go to court, 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.280 but you really think the Republicans in Congress are going 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.680 to go to court to fight the Republicans and the 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.160 executive branch. One thing we've learned from this is that 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.360 when the going gets tough, they roll over, They turn 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.360 tail and run away. This Congress has a masculated itself 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.360 to the executive branch. And I know they're starting to 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.839 sense penisn't ask questions about this because their base demands it. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.880 Both They'll only go so far. Donald Trump is the 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.800 leader of their party, and when Donald Trump wants something 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:21.720 badly enough, he gets it. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.440 Coming up next, why a Florida judge decided not to 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.800 release the transcripts. This is Bloomberg. I've been talking to 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.320 Dave Ehrenberg, former Palm Beach County state attorney, about the 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.680 pressure on the Trump administration to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.480 Let's talk about the grand jury transcripts first. You can 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.360 explain why the transcripts will not reveal client lists or 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.360 any of the other things that the conspiracy theorists are 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:50.040 looking for. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.680 The grand jury transcripts are just a portion of the 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.400 portion of what people are looking for. See what they 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.559 wanted the Epstein files. They want the names of these 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.960 third parts parties who allegedly were involved with human trafficking. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.120 Who were these girls trafficked too, That's what people are seeking. 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.680 That's not going to be in the grand jury transcripts, 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.040 especially redacted once. It's not going to be in there. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.440 So it's pretty much a distraction that the administration is 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.960 just seeking these grand jury transcripts and we come on. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.160 First of all, they're not going to get him. The 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.880 judges will reject it, and then they can blame the judiciary, 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.000 which is part of the strategy because if there's one 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.720 group that the MAGA world hates more than the media, 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.960 it's the judiciary. It's judges. So that was actually a 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.120 smart move I thought by Trump to put the focus 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:35.640 on the judges. But it's still not going to work. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.520 It's not going to satisfy the MAGA base who've been 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.559 led to believe there's this client list and that you 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:46.120 have this democratic conspiracy to have a child sex trafficking green. Well, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.120 it's a different role when you go from being a 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.360 blogger to being in government. When you're in government, you 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.720 got to produce. When you're a blogger, you can say 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.720 whatever you want and never be held accountable for it. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.160 And that's a lesson that Caspitel and Dan Begino and 0:11:58.160 --> 0:11:58.880 others are learning. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.440 The Florida said judge has already declined to release the 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.800 transcripts on what grounds. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.720 There are grand jury secrecy rules and you can't get 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:12.600 the grand jury transcripts unless you have an exception under 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.800 the federal law, and there's no exception here just because 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.600 the public wants to see it. Also, you need to 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.199 go to victims and get their permission and approvals, but 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.480 the administration didn't do that. They just went right to 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.240 the judge because it was about the show. It wasn't 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.480 about to go. It was about the show. They wanted 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.640 the public to think that they were doing something about transparency. 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.400 But the judge rule, as we all expected, the judge 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.280 the rule. But even if the judge did produce these 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.400 grand jury transcripts, I mean, it's really, as I said, 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.400 just a portion of what the public wants. The public 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.120 wants names. Grand jury transcripts wouldn't produce those names of 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.680 third parties. It would just be the testimony that was 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.200 written down and the exhibits that were provided inside the 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.319 secret grand jury that led to Epstein's indictment. It's not 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:03.160 going to be what implicates uncharged third parties. And so 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.559 if you are waiting for the grand jury transcripts to 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.040 answer your at Jeffrey Epstein questions, you'll be waiting a 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:10.720 long time. 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.520 There are still two judges in New York considering the 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.520 government's requests to release the grand jury transcripts in the 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.679 Epstein and Maxwell cases. They're taking more time and requesting 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.400 more information. What do you think they're just not, you know, 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.479 denying them out of hand and saying grand jury secrecy. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.120 The rules up there in that circuit in New York 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:41.079 are a little better for the public to get access 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.920 to grand jury transcripts. There's there's a slight opening. It's 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.640 not impossible. It's hard, but it's not impossible. So there's 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.880 an outside chance that could happen up there. But as 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.240 I said, even if you get them, they're going to 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.560 be disappointing. They're going to be largely a nothing burger 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.720 of people, and it probably suits Trump more if the 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.840 judges just reject the request, then Trump can say, see, 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.319 I tried, I try to be transparent. Blame those unelected 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.880 liberal judges, even though he may have appointed some of them. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.240 But you can just blame the people wearing the black 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.760 ropes who get lifetime appointments and carry the gabble. Much 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.560 easier to do than to turn and shine the flashlight 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:20.120 on yourself. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.640 And I want to get your reaction to the Trump 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:31.080 administration falsely claiming that President Obama deliberately manufactured and politicized 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:35.640 intelligence reports about Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.840 I don't know how we got back to this point. 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:39.400 Do you know what this is about? 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.840 Yeah, it's about distraction. It's to take your mind off 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.560 of the Jeffrey Epstein situation. So he has Pulsey Gabbert, 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.600 who has no business being in government. Quite frankly, she's 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.920 a hack. She's not qualified to be the director of 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.000 D and I, and she's doing Pulsy Gabbert things by 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.880 creating a story out of nothing. Even what she produced 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.800 doesn't show what she says it shows. All shows is 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:09.120 that Russia did not manipulate votes. They did not change 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.000 the outcome of the election by the voting. But they did, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.160 and it's been proven over and over again, even by 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.680 the report by Senator Marco Rubio's Senate Intelligence Committee that 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.320 Russia did interfere with the election. They had a favorite 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.000 in the election, Donald Trump, and they had a strategy 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.360 that they implemented to get involved through spreading disinformation. But 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.560 they didn't hack into voting machines. So I don't know 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.400 what this thing is about that Tulsa Gabbert is trying 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.760 to show, except it's nothing except for a distraction on 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.800 the Jeffrey Epstein matter and approves why Tulsa Gabbard is 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:44.200 unfit for office. 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:49.600 Obama spokesman said these bizarre allegations are ridiculous and a 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.840 weak attempt at distraction. I mean, this is not the 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.320 first time that Trump has attacked Obama. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.800 Well, that's how he built his political career by claiming 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.680 that Obama born in Kenya. This is why the magabase 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.840 is so upset about this latest conspiracy theory, because they 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.000 were led to believe that there are conspiracies under every 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.880 mattress in DC, whether it's Obama being from Kenya, or 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.440 the election of twenty twenty being stolen, or Jeffrey Epstein 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.520 being part of a Democrat at cabal. But as the 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.960 conspiracy theories get destroyed, the magabases is starting to wonder 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.600 if they've been misled, if they've been made to look 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:37.000 like fools, And they're understandably point their finger at their 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.920 own team because their own team is the one who 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:40.800 has led them astray. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.360 Turning to other legal news, one of the world's most 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.560 vulnerable countries to the fallout from climate change has won 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.920 a landmark legal battle, giving countries new ammunition to pursue 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.040 some of the planet's biggest emitters. Joining me is environmental 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.360 law expert Michael Girard, director of Columbia Law schools Saban 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.400 Center for Climate Change Law, tell us about this decision 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.840 by the International Court of Justice. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.879 So the International Court of Justice just issued a unanimous 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.320 opinion by all fourteen of its judges on climate change. 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.120 The decision said that climate change is a grave threat 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.879 to humankind and many elements of international law require every 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.920 country to act very strongly to try to fight climate change. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.240 And tell us about the case that was brought to 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:33.359 years ago by. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.200 Vanuatu vano Watu, which is one of the small island 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.280 nations in the Pacific that is really endangered by subl rise, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.159 who was able to organize an international effort and persuade 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:50.680 the UN General Assembly to send to the International Court 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.879 of Justice in the Hague questions about what are the 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:59.399 obligations of countries to reduce their greenhouse assmentions and among 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.480 other things, to save small island states and everybody else 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.480 from the ravages of climate change. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.440 The ICJ doesn't have the power to enforce the decision 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.479 on its own. US is among the countries that doesn't 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.879 automatically recognize its legal authority. So what weight does this 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:19.879 opinion have. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.480 That's right, the ICJ opinions in this kind of case 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.720 our advisory. They don't have enforcement power. Many countries of 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.760 the world do take the ICJ's decisions seriously, and we've 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.480 already seen in quite a few countries around the world 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.520 decisions by their own courts saying that their governments aren't 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.119 doing enough. I think we'll see a lot more of 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.480 those kinds of lawsuits all around the world. We'll see 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:51.160 more lawsuits brought by environmental groups and others in their 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.160 national courts saying that under the ICJ opinion and other 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.119 legal doctrines, those countries are not doing enough to produce 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.840 their green ask gas missions, and that could lead to 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:07.200 enforcement by those national courts against those national governments. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:09.840 Last year, at least two hundred and twenty six new 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:14.879 climate cases were brought. Are those mostly against countries? Are 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.560 they against you know, corporations? You know? Where are they 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:19.480 bringing these suits? 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.600 They're mostly against countries, but very few of them are 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.880 what we call strategic litigation, that is trying to get 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.560 the country to act more broadly, Most of those lawsuits 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:33.800 are concerning particular projects or our particular small actions. But 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:38.119 we have seen strategic cases that are ordering countries to 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:46.080 do more. We saw them in successful cases the Netherlands, Germany, France, Mexico, Nepal, Brazil, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.720 South Africa. Most recently Hungary, several other countries all around 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.320 the world. We're seeing these kinds of cases, these kinds 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.480 of decisions from the courts, and I think now we'll 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:58.600 see more of them. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.720 And our countries complain vying with the results of these 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.960 cases when they're decided. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.280 Not necessarily that's a very good question. We've seen that 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.879 the countries are doing something but not necessarily enough, and 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.280 frequently the plaintives go back to court to try to 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.320 seek more specific enforcement. So the decisions do have a 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.280 positive effect, but they're not completely solving the problem. 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.960 Are there other international courts that are taking a stand 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.119 on climate Yes. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.160 In the last year and a half or so, we've 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.960 seen decisions from the European Court of Human Rights, the 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:40.040 Inter American Court of Human Rights, and the International Tribunal 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.040 on the Law of the Sea, and all three of 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.520 those international tribunals also said that the countries have an 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.280 obligation to reduce their green ass gas emissions and otherwise 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:52.679 address climate change. 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.840 Is litigation the best way forward for climate activists or 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.240 negotiations ongoing anywhere? 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.840 I wouldn't say that litigation is necessarily the best way. 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.800 I think the best way is to try to get 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.960 politicians to pass and implement strong laws, but in few 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.960 countries as that actually happens. So litigation is one important 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.879 part of the toolkit. It's not the biggest part, but 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.000 it's one important part, and it just became a lot 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.000 stronger with yesterday's decision. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.879 As far as the United States and the Trump administration, 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:32.400 how has the Trump administration impacted the environment and environmental protections? 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.040 Well, the Trump administration is basically a denying climate change, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:37.840 or at least that they have to do anything about it. 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:42.600 They're working very hard to stop all of the actions 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.360 that had been taken under previous administrations to control climate change. 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.840 They again withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement. So the 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.520 Trump administration is very much moving backwards on all of this. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:00.320 Let's say that after Trump's term ends, there as a 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.840 president who is more concerned about the environment. Can the 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.840 Trump administration's actions be easily reversed. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.200 They can be reversed, but it will take time. Of course. 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.760 In the first Trump administration they moved backwards, although not 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.440 as faster as quickly, and then when Biden came in, 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.320 they did reverse of that and secured passage of the 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:25.840 Inflation Reduction Act, which Congress has now partly revoked. One 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.600 of the big problems is loss of staff, loss of expertise, 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.640 loss of scientific capability. That'll take some time to rebuild. 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.240 So the legal issues most of us can be restored, 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.359 but actually regaining the momentum is going to take time. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.840 We will have lost a lot of time that we 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:44.360 don't have. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.520 What can environmental activists do is it file suits to 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.160 try to slow down the Trump administration. 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.080 Yes, and there's already a lot of that, and quite 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.800 a few of those lossits have had early successes in 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.480 the district court, serve in quite a few preliminary injunctions 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.280