1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: My name's Rain Wilson, and I played Dwight Kurt Shrewd. 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the Office. Deep Dive. We're back, baby, 3 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: that's right, we are back. I am your host, Brian 4 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: baum Gartner. Today you are going to be listening to 5 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: the second part of my conversation with Rain Wilson. So, 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: just like with Angela, I wanted to save this part 7 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: of Rain's interview for our Camera as Character series because 8 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: Dwight had one of the most interesting relationships with the 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: camera on the show. Sometimes it was like he was 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: hiding from it, he hated it, but at other times 11 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: the camera was his friend, like in the Sea from 12 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Stress Relief where he's lighting the fire. He thinks the 13 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: camera gets what I'm doing right. And we also talked 14 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 1: about many other important topics, like Rain's dynamic with Steve Correll, 15 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: whether The Office could indeed be made today, and who 16 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: in the cast was the most likely to get fired. 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: As always, Rain had so many insightful things to say. 18 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: I just love talking to him about our show. Though 19 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: I hate that I'm being so nice to him, but 20 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: you know what, I can't help But I love him. 21 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: You love him. America loves him, Dwight. He's everyone's favorite. 22 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: I'm not bitter about that at all. I'm a little 23 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: bitter about that. But without further ado, here he is 24 00:01:51,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Rain Wilson, Bubble and I love it Bubble and squeaker 25 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Bubble and squeaker cookie every month. Left over from the 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: night before. When we talk about what was unique about 27 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: the show, um, the camera as the character. UM. To me, 28 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: what's impressive and what I'm tremendously proud of in the 29 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: show is that every shot it wasn't about how can 30 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: we cover this person the best, how can we get 31 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: this or even how can we get this joke? But 32 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: is the camera there? Where is it? What story is 33 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: that telling? Because we're supposedly seeing this through a Documentaryan's lens. 34 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: I mean, your interactions with the cameras elevated Dwight an 35 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: even higher level than it was. Yeah. So there was 36 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: a constant, uh a negotiation about where the cameras should 37 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: be for a scene, and Greg was very exacting about it. 38 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: Randall Ione Horn one of our chief directors, Matt Son, 39 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: one of our chief directors, and cameraman. There was this 40 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: constant dialogue and it was very thorough. Nothing was done 41 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: half asked. You know, it was just kind of like, well, 42 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, we rehearse the scene. Maybe the director would 43 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: have it plotted out, but the writer would come in 44 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: and say, well, if the camera was here when he 45 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: says that thing and then looks away, we can rack 46 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: focus to the person in the foreground and get their reaction, 47 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: and the other camera can get this other reaction and 48 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: then you know, so it was there was a lot 49 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: of calculation that went on. The use of Venetian blinds 50 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: was extraordinary. How do we shoot through the blinds? Is 51 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: this a spy shot? Is that on this side of 52 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the blinds? On this side are they a where the 53 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: cameras there? And so if you look at the episodes, 54 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: it's almost mathematical about, you know, how can we position 55 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: in the camera so it captures seemingly effortlessly captures the 56 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: greatest number of reactions and interactions to bring out as 57 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: much humanity and comedy at the same time. So, you know, 58 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: when you would prep an episode, you would you know, 59 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: have the a D there and you'd kind of read 60 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: through the scene and you'd think about where we would 61 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: need to go, and you also didn't want to just 62 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: always repeat you didn't want to just always have like, 63 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, we'll just put the cameras in Michael's office, 64 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: just shoot over one guy's left shoulder and the other 65 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: guy's right shoulder, and just you wanted to find new 66 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: original ways of shooting stuff, and it was very precise 67 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: and sometimes it was a real puzzle. One of the 68 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: challenges I remember having on one of the episodes, I 69 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: can't remember which one it might have been. I think 70 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: it was Classy Christmas was that if people walk in 71 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: and they're having a scene and you're shooting them, you 72 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: have to whip around to get reactions on the other people, 73 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: Whereas if you're on the other her side and they 74 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: step in front of the camera so the camera has 75 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: the deep background of the rest of the office behind 76 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: the players in the foreground, then you get to follow 77 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: the action and just rack focus past them, past the plant, 78 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: past the copy machine, and get the reactions. So it's 79 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: better to be on that side of the access of 80 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: shooting because for people who don't know, there's a thing 81 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: called the line when you're directing, and it's the access 82 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: between the principal players, and you're either on one side 83 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: of the line or the other side of the the line. 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: You can't really play on both side of the lines. 85 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: They just would look really jumbled in the human brain. 86 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: It's just how vision works. So I remember there being 87 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: a lot of, you know, deep conversations like how do 88 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: we get Steve in further so that the camera stays 89 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: on this side. So it's very complex. Yeah. One of 90 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: the other things that I've been thinking about is you 91 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: and I were theater actors, right, Steve Angela Oscar were 92 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: really improv actors, and then you've got Craig Robinson and 93 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: b J who were really stand up guys, And I wonder, 94 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: it seems to me that there's something in what made 95 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: our ensemble unique that had to do with that. That's interesting. 96 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about that before, but I think 97 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: that's a really good point. People had all of these 98 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: different backgrounds that kind of suited their characters, and I 99 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: don't know exactly how, but I definitely see that all 100 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: kind of adding into that kind of the jumble eye 101 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: of of the ensemble. And also, like, remember we were 102 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: just post friends, right, this was two thousand four, and 103 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: everyone was very interesting faces, you know, even like John Krasinski, 104 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: who's handsome, was not traditionally handsome in a lot of ways. 105 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of long face and stuff like that, 106 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: but really interesting and odd faces all around. And that 107 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: was pretty groundbreaking for the time. You see it more now, 108 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: but especially for network television at that time, it was 109 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: just unheard of, all these kind of weirdos. But I 110 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: think the diversity in our acting backgrounds people brought different strengths. 111 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: You know, what do you think made the ensemble so special? 112 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: You Well, obviously I was I was the main part 113 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: of that. I think Greg had a lot of experience, 114 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: so he had written on Seinfeld and Simpsons and created 115 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: King of the Hill, of course, but he had been 116 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: on a lot of other shows, and I think he 117 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: was very careful to make sure that he wasn't casting 118 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: any divas and that everyone was a team player and 119 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: an ensemble player. So I think that one thing that 120 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: theater and improv gives you is a sense of like, 121 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: it's not the Rain Wilson Show or the Steve Carrell 122 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: Show or whatever, it's the It's about the ensembles, Like 123 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: how do you make other people funnier? How do you 124 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: play well with others? That was another thing he picked 125 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: people with also, like just really good hearts, like the people. 126 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: When you look back on it, everyone is a really 127 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: goodhearted person. Now, I've worked on TV shows where that 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: is not the case. In fact, I remember I forget 129 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: which director was. It was a director later on season 130 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: five or six, and they were like, oh my god, 131 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: I can't believe how much you guys love each other 132 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: like that. We hug each other and high five and 133 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: in between takes were just laughing and watching videos and 134 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: goofing off and um, just a really loving environment. And 135 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: he goes, I just got back from directing Desperate Housewives. 136 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: It's like half the cast is not talking to the 137 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: other half of the cast. You have to call people 138 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: out of trailers at certain points in time, but they 139 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: won't look at each other, they won't do the off 140 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: camera work with the other person. It's all this just 141 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: cattiness and competitiveness and and that that exists on a 142 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: lot of different shows. You kind of you kind of 143 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: read about it and it's, uh, it's pretty extraordinary, and 144 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't there for us, not in the slightest No. Yeah. Um, 145 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: so we have this, like, we have this collection of 146 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: characters that are existing within this office. And I think 147 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: when you think about the show, that's what you think about, 148 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: and you forget how much change we had, like even 149 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: from from season three and Jim leaving and then Um, Karen, 150 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Philip Elly and Andy coming in and Ed and then 151 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: Ellie coming in, like we had sort of a constant 152 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: revolving tour, although not really revolving because not many people left. 153 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: We just got bigger. Um. I don't know, there's something 154 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: interesting to me about the energy that was created by 155 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: Greg constantly changing up and adding cast members and making 156 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: us go on locations. Later seasons we had Clark Duke 157 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: and Jake Lacey. Yeah exactly. Um, Yeah, I think that 158 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: was really smart. I mean, you know, I think Rashida 159 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: and Ed Helms, like two of the greatest comedy actors 160 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: of all time coming in was a really needed breath 161 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: of fresh air in that third season and really helped 162 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: us a lot. And I think Ellie Kemper, who has 163 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: proven herself to be one of the great comedians UH 164 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: television personalities, bringing her in in season five or six 165 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: or whenever it was, um really helped the show as well. 166 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: So he was very adept about that, as as he 167 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: is in all of his decision making. I consider you 168 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: and Steve to be one of, if not the greatest 169 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: comedy duos in the history of television. Wow, that's so 170 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: sweet of you, Brian. Thank you. Shut up. I'm serious, 171 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm serious. That is very sweet of you. I do 172 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: I I just kind of want to do a little 173 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: deep dive into you and he working. How much did 174 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: you talk about those scenes before you were in the 175 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: room shooting. We never talked about scenes, never ever. Um, 176 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: so you talk about the various skill sets that we 177 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: brought to the equation as actors. So Steve was in 178 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: Second City. He was kind of infamously great in Second City. 179 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: He wrote a lot of their favorite best sketches. He 180 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: toured with them, You've done the Dana Carvey Show, and 181 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: he was just really well known and super highly respected 182 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: and and truly like I've worked with a lot of 183 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: amazing actors over the years before The Office and since 184 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: the Office, I've never worked with anyone like him before. 185 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: He can improvise like it's it's it's it's almost a 186 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: crime to call it improvisation, because he can just be 187 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,479 Speaker 1: and speak as a character and it's both funny and 188 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: and pathetic and sad and moving at the same time, 189 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: and it was just a true honor and marvel to 190 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: like watch him work and for me, like again I 191 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: improvised pretty well, it's not really my bag. My bag 192 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: is like creating memorable characters. That's how I think of 193 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: myself as an Actor's like when I die and they 194 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: show the little thing on the Emmys of the Academy Awards, 195 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: I want people to go like, oh wow, he created 196 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting memorable characters. But it was 197 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: just about watching Steve go. So I thought of us 198 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:37,119 Speaker 1: as like, wow, these guys are the loudest podcast engineers 199 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my life. Um, I'm just kidding, 200 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, It's okay, I'll show you how to turn 201 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: the volume down on the computer. Though. The so I 202 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: thought of us as like the vision that I had 203 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: was like the image that I had, like we're just 204 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: these different musicians, Like Steve is like this he's a 205 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: violent player, or he's the Alto Sacks or something. It's 206 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: like it's quick, it's mercurial, it's changing, and Dwight is 207 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of like a little more of the base. And 208 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: also I thought part of Dwight's job, part of my 209 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: job as an actor is just to keep him off 210 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: balance just a little bit. So I would always vary 211 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: my timings and sometimes just try and funk with him, 212 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: and I'll just all of a sudden, say I could 213 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: really go for some spaghetti right about now, and he 214 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: would just never miss a beat. He would spin it 215 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: into pure gold. So it was it was really a 216 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: miraculous thing to watch. But I think that when a 217 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: comedy duo is in sync there they know kind of 218 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: what instruments they're playing. And Dwight, I think sometimes I 219 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: would try and be the violin, but Dwight was never 220 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: That's not his speed, it's not his rhythm. Um, he 221 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: doesn't work in the same way. And it was also 222 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: really great to just know, like, this is what Steve does. 223 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: He does it better than anyone else, like on the planet, 224 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: and I don't need to try and do that. I'll 225 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: do my thing. My thing is to play kind of 226 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: the big bass playing weirdo in the corner, you know. 227 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: In opposition to that. Well, that was the thing that 228 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: always amazed me, which was he would come in, you know, 229 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: like in the conference room scenes. These are sides, by 230 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: the way, these are fake sides, and he would be like, 231 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like flipping through and like okay, 232 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna move here, and we would rehearse for 233 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: like an eight page scene for about six minutes, and 234 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: then'd be like okay, everybody go get dressed and whatever. 235 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: And then he would put on his suit and finish 236 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: getting his makeup on, and he would walk back in 237 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: and it was like boom. He was like fully there. Yeah. 238 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: But that's why I wondered if you and he ever 239 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: talked through any more of those things. That was one 240 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: of the things with Steve that I kind of saw 241 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: really quick because I wanted to just be respectful to 242 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: his process and whatnot, Like he did not want to 243 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: work stuff out, He did not want to rehearse, he 244 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to like talk about it and and stuff 245 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: like that. I mean he would if there was there 246 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: needed to be a change in the writing, he would 247 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: bring in Greg or Paul or or Jen or whomever 248 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: and talk about, like could we change this. I feel 249 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: like he would say this and needs to say something 250 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: more like that. But as far as the acting, it's 251 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: like it's off, boom starting gun, the horses are off 252 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: and you you just go and worked really well. Right. Um, 253 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: it occurred to me, one of the things that make 254 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: made you and Steve so unique goes to not to 255 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: dismiss this at all. You and John were hilarious together, 256 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: but you were a much more classical duo. He was 257 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: the straight man to you, whereas with you and Steve, 258 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: you both were crazy idiots, right and still somehow it 259 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: was made believable and real and hilariously funny without being 260 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: a competition. It was really like an orchestra, Like you said, Yeah, 261 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: so this is where we could talk shop a little bit, 262 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: because I love the history of clown and of clowning. 263 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: And it really started with the comedies of the ancient Greeks, 264 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, like Aristophanes the Frogs and some of those plays. 265 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: What's the one where they all have boners, um they 266 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: withhold sex from the man until the men stopped the war? 267 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: Anyone blanking on the name anyway, So it all starts 268 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: back then, and then swiftly moves to Comedia dell arte, 269 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: which sprang out of you know, Roman theater that had 270 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: these comic tropes and would travel all over Europe. And 271 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: they always had the dopey clown like Kevin. They had 272 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: like the weird, intense clown like Dwhite. There were these tropes, 273 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: and basically all of comedy uh in the Western world 274 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: I think is based off of those tropes, from comedy 275 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: to Larte. They influenced obviously Moliere and then Shakespeare, Vaudeville 276 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: and clown characters like that, then moved into you know, 277 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: early radio and TV. You know, think about the Honeymooners 278 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: and then the early sitcoms and Dick Van Dyke and 279 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: Merritt Tyler Moore and then on into the later sitcoms, 280 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: and this constantly evolving process of these archetypal kind of 281 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: forms that I really view like Michael and Dwight, and 282 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: Dwight and Jim as like two comic duos as being 283 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: like inheritors of the history of comedy. I don't know 284 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: exactly how they fit in um certainly, you know, Jim 285 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: was like the young lover, although he had that great 286 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: dead pan and got more laughs than anyone else could 287 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: have gotten in that role with this you know, his 288 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: looks to the camera and his long suffering nous and 289 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: quick wittedness. But it's the it's the essence of clown. 290 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: You studied clown as well, and physical theater and stuff 291 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: like that. You And I know this might sound pretentious 292 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: as hell to people, but I don't care for them. 293 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: What how do you how do you feel like it 294 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: it played into the clowns and the physical comedy of 295 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: the Office. Absolutely, I mean I think primarily with Kevin 296 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: and Dwight and Michael Um, but no, even Angela, Andy Bernard, 297 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: those characters. Absolutely, we all might have had clown noses 298 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: on when you think about it, totally, you could have 299 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: put clown noses on all of the different characters. And 300 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: even though it's a documentary and gritty and real and 301 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: felt like in an office, like it was really happening 302 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: documentary style. And that was one of the things that 303 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: I said to Greg early on into the writer's room, 304 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: like I really love physical comedy and I would really 305 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: I think that Dwight really soars when he's doing physical comedy. 306 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: I really want you to consider writing as much physical 307 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: comedy for me as possible. And I do think that 308 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: that's when you think of the Office, you think of 309 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: like documentary uber real bad lighting, reactions looking at the 310 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: camera and stuff like that. But you could do a 311 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: compilation episode of the Office of like the physical comedy bits, 312 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: you know, the fire episode, and Dwight with Jan's baby 313 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: carriage or um parkour and all of this stuff, like 314 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: even you having to give me a massage. Do you 315 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: remember you climbing up on the wall. I was on 316 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: my were on the filing cabinet behind you as I 317 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: was doing that. So, um, there's a really a strong 318 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: constant vein. Like every episode I would say had some 319 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: at least one or two big bits of physical comedy 320 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: and involving pain and getting hit and doors slammed in 321 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: faces and whatnot, and that I don't think that gets 322 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: quite enough props or attention from people. Well, and and 323 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: even pretending to be a different character than you are, right, 324 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: you a number of characters and Jim and me, And 325 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: when Jim dresses is Dwight and says Bears beats Battlestar Galactica, 326 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: and people always say, I want you to write Bears 327 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: beats Battlestar Galactica or if I'm signing a picture or 328 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: something like that, or say it or something like that. 329 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, Dwight actually never said that. In two episodes, 330 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: Dwight never said Bears be It's Battlestar galact That was 331 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: Jim as Dwight saying that, I don't say that. I'm 332 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: not a perist nicketty asshole going wait said it. But 333 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: people should realize that Dwight never actually said that. Wow, 334 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: I would never have gotten that. I would I blew 335 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 1: your mind. No, I never would have gotten that. Um okay, 336 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: So you have this comedy duo with Steve. When did 337 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: you find out he was leaving? Um? I knew that 338 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: Steve was going to get out of there as soon 339 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: as he possibly could because he had all of these 340 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: movies that were wanting to pay him ten and fifteen 341 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: million dollars a pop to go do. So of course 342 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: he would like what you know. So, um, did you 343 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: have reservations about the show existing beyond him? Yeah? I had. 344 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: I had great reservations about the show existing without Steve. 345 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: You know, did I think we were going to bomb 346 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: and fail without Steve? Know, We're we going to be 347 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: hurt by losing one of the greatest comedic actors of 348 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: all time in the lead character? Of course, we were. 349 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: No one thought otherwise. At the same time, we had 350 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: a pretty damn great ensemble. You know, Ed Helms at 351 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: the time was lead in Hangover, which was the biggest 352 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: comedy ever made and we had him and he you know, 353 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: I didn't think we needed like a Robert California or 354 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: Cathy Bates or you know a lot of other like 355 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: big names to bring in at that point. I think 356 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: we had the ensemble. I wish the creators and I 357 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: know they were doing a lot of battling with with 358 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: NBC at the time because we were starting to slip 359 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: in our ratings even before Steve left. It's not like 360 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: we were just on a ratings bonanza all the way 361 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: through Steve and then Steve left and we were declined. 362 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: We were in decline for a good year or two 363 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: with Steve there. But yeah, I knew it was gonna Um. 364 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: I knew it was going to hurt us, and I 365 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: knew it was also time for you know, all of 366 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: us to step up in the ensemble and carry more weight. 367 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: Um of anyone on set, who would be the most 368 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: likely to be fired for an HR violation, Oh ouch, 369 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: um boy, I would. I was first wanted to joke 370 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: and say, oh, that would be me, because I told 371 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot of inappropriate jokes. But at the same time, 372 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: oh boy, you've got me stumped on this one. At 373 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: the same time, for some reason, I'm going to Creed 374 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: because I would tell inappropriate jokes, but people could always 375 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: tell like, oh, that's Rain telling a really inappropriate joke. 376 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like Creed could tell one, 377 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: and I imagine that certain people would kind of go, oh, 378 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: he means it. He's actually going to chop up my 379 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: body and put me in the trunk of his car 380 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: or something like that. Or um, so I would say 381 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: a tie between me and Creed. Maybe yeah, okay, I mean, 382 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: would you go with that? I will, now that you 383 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: said it was all about you, you would say things 384 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: that I mean, my language can be horrendously bad. I've 385 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: kept it together somewhat here, but you somehow would put 386 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: combinations of vulgar words together in a way that even 387 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: made me uncomfortable and looking around like who heard that? 388 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: And are we in trouble? Oh my god? You know 389 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: we made the show before all of this stuff, the 390 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: me too and stuff like that. I hope I was 391 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: never really I certainly was never demeaning to anybody or 392 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: or cruel to anyone, um or you know, coming on 393 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: to women in some weird ways. It was just like 394 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: inappropriate jokes. But I heard about some other shows where 395 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: people like off camera were like dropping their pants and 396 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: showing their genitals to the person who's on the camera, 397 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: and that would happen all the time, and everyone thought, oh, 398 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: this is hysterical, you know, like all the quote unquote 399 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: hysterical high jinks that would happen. That was really just 400 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: straight harassment. That's what I always imagine people are wanting 401 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: us to say about the pranks, like, oh, yeah, no, 402 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: I would. I would moon rain all the time off camera, 403 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: and that was no. We never did anything like that. Um, Steve, 404 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: And I'm going to talk to him about this, But Steve, 405 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: he's been quoted and I don't know if it's been 406 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: paraphrased or whatever, but there's something out there where he 407 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: has said that The Office could not exist today because 408 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: of the culture of political correctness that exists in television. 409 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? Yeah, I think The Office 410 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: would be a very different show. And I think that 411 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: having a just colossally inappropriate boss who's making a lot 412 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: of sexual jokes and innue windows and crossing lines and boundaries, 413 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: we were sending up kind of a problem that was 414 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: out there, an issue that was out there. We were 415 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: shining light on it and poking at it. That what 416 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: she said, and I do think it would be very 417 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: problematic in this day and age. How how do you 418 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: navigate that? Even if the guy is supposed to be 419 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: an asshole, how do you navigate him saying just sexist 420 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: stuff and racist stuff and it's coming out of his 421 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: mouth and he's just not aware, you know, it would 422 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: have I agree with Steve, I don't think you could 423 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: do it. I disagree with both of you. I can't. 424 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me. He took off his glasses. 425 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: He's getting in the sense. It makes no no, no. 426 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: But see I just keep thinking he's been paraphrased incorrectly. 427 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: But then now you just endorsed it. How can what 428 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: is now the most watch show and television you're telling 429 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: me an executive is going to turn that down? The 430 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: potential for that down. Yeah. But this is what I'm 431 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: saying is that there would be a backlash, for instance, 432 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: Diversity Day if you had a show right now that 433 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: was starting out, you know, not The not The Office, 434 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: that's a big hit show. If there was a show 435 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: that was starting out and had a Diversity Day episode, 436 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: and people we're saying, like try make Google googi to 437 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: an Indian person and if they were saying I can't drive, 438 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: are you Asian? Or are you a woman? And like 439 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: you were saying, rama rosta man, I'm doing like like 440 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: and people were doing that stuff like, there would be 441 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: a lot of angry people on social media saying like, 442 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: this is inappropriate, this is it's having a laugh at 443 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: these stereotypes. Yes, it's sending them up, but we need 444 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: to get out of this and we cannot continue to participate, 445 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: and there would be a huge backlash against it. So 446 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: I'm not saying, like, could you do The Office the 447 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: Office now? But a show like The Office could never 448 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: take off right now because if it tried to play 449 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: in the world of what's inappropriate, people just don't have 450 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: a sense of humor about it. And partially for good 451 00:26:47,240 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: reason and an understandable reason, and partially partially not will 452 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: you play them the Pam thing? I thought it was 453 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: weird when you picked us to make a documentary, But 454 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: all in all, I think an ordinary paper company like 455 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: dunder Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary. There's 456 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: a lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind 457 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: of the point? So to me, that is what Greg 458 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: says that it was all about. Is that what you 459 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: think it was all about? Um? Yeah, beauty of ordinary things. 460 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 1: I'm gonna sound pretentious again, and I'm gonna take us 461 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: back to the theater. But really, my favorite theater artist 462 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: of all time was Anton Chekov the play right, and 463 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: Chekhov was one of the first, if not the first, 464 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: that really saw the beauty in ordinary things and in 465 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: ordinary people, and those when you define what a Jacovian 466 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: moment is, it's a profound moment that's very simple, where 467 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: hearts are broken over a teacup being passed around or 468 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: what's not said, or a longing, and has some kind 469 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: of physical manifestation. So I think, at its best, I 470 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: think The Office was Jacovan in that sense where there 471 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: was a beauty found in ordinary things. And Chekhov's work 472 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: has suffused so much of what's happened in theater, TV 473 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: and film for the last hundred and twenty years. You know, 474 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: when you think about dramedy like the word dramedy half 475 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: drama half comedy, like he was the first, you know, 476 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: you might argue that some of Shakespeare's romance plays kind 477 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: of it in that spectrum that they really didn't He 478 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: was really the first that was like, I don't know 479 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: whether to laugh or cry. And now I'm gonna laugh 480 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: a little bit and I'm gonna cry a little bit, 481 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna laugh and cry a little bit, and 482 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: it's just gonna ride that line between buffoonery and heartbreak. 483 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: And I think Greg and the writing staff and the 484 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: cast and the directors really knew how to how to 485 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: milk that, you know. They The example I always give 486 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite moments was directed by Paul Lieberstein, 487 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: who I think is an amazing director, um and a 488 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: great writer and who played Toby obviously. UM. I think 489 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: it was in the episode Money and it's Dwight and 490 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: Jim in the stairwell. Dwight is heartbroken over Angela and 491 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: Jim gives him some advice and I forget what it 492 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: was even um, but Jim gives dwighte some really heartfelt 493 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: advice like you'll get over it, or you go tell 494 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: her you lover or something like that, something about Angela. 495 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: And then Dwight has got his head down in his 496 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: hands and Jim slips away, and that that's the spy 497 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: shot of the camera down the stairs. And then Dwight 498 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: reaches out with his left arm as if he would 499 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: have put his arm around Jim and like hugged, and 500 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: it would have been like their first hug ever. And 501 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: Jim's not there, and he kind of it looks around 502 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: and and it's this awkward moment. But I always think like, 503 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: if Jim hadn't left, and if Dwight had just put 504 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: his arm around Jim, like they might have bonded in 505 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: a way that wouldn't have allowed the show to go 506 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: on because they wouldn't have been the nemesis to each other. 507 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: They would have like connected too deeply, and you can't 508 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: have that on the show. You want to have them 509 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: episode after episode after episode not connecting. Um. But to me, 510 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: it's like that little moment like defined what the office was. 511 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: It had absurdity to it, reality to it. At the 512 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: same time it was based in heartbreak and then it 513 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: twisted into something kind of peculiar and odd and awkward. 514 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: That's really smart. But no, I mean, you're pretty smart. 515 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm smart guying. You know you're um. Obviously you started 516 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: Soul Pancake two thousand eight. You're very spiritual person. That's 517 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: important to you. Yeah, what or utual person who tells 518 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: really inappropriate jokes are the worst, the worst. I don't um. 519 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: Do you feel like there was a good that came 520 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: from the show. Yeah, So, you know, my my spiritual 521 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: life and and that world is, like you mentioned, is 522 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: important to me, you know, prayer and meditation and thinking 523 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: about you know, life's big questions and our purpose here 524 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: and how we can be of service to one another, 525 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: how I can make myself a better person. All of 526 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: these big spiritual questions occupy some time and space with me. 527 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: So I truly believe that at the end of the day, 528 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: we weren't kind of trying to do this. But I 529 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: do believe that The Office was a spiritual show. You know, 530 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: anytime I'm kind of recognized, people will say thank you 531 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: for the show. It meant so much to me my 532 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: parents were getting a divorce, or my little brotherhood cancer, 533 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: and we would watch it together and we would cry. 534 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: It got me through some of the hardest times. I 535 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: mean every day, like people right into my Facebook like 536 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: it got me through such hard times. I was going 537 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: through depression, I was anxiety and disease issues whatever, mental 538 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: health issues, and the Office got me through that. And 539 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: I think that The reason that The Office has lasted 540 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: the way it has is it because all great television 541 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: is unlikely families, and it's the most unlikely family, and 542 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: you love to be with that family. You there's something 543 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: really soothing about showing up hearing that theme song. You're 544 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: in that office with these characters that you love. You 545 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: want to cohabitate with them, you want to work in 546 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: the office with them. I've talked to so many young 547 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: people that have said, I want to work in an 548 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: office just like in dunder Mifflin. They're like thinking somehow 549 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: that out in the workaday world, that it's going to 550 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: be even remotely like the Office, the most wrongheaded thing 551 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: known demand. But yeah, I think we made something that 552 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: ultimately made people laugh at their minds, off their problems. 553 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: That brought a lot of like comedy and warmth and 554 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: heart and connection, and that's really what people need now, 555 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: and so they're they're watching the show. It's not a 556 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: cynical show at the end of the day. It's people 557 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: that do love each other, as weird as it is, 558 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: and it's been a positive force in the world. I 559 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: didn't doubt that when we're making it, But I didn't 560 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: even really think about that when we're making it. But 561 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: the heart of the show, the heart of Greg Daniels, 562 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: heart of all the actors and the writers kind of 563 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: has lasted. What are you the most thankful for? Um, 564 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: the house that The Office bought me? Now, um, no, 565 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm but that's fair. Oh yeah, no, I yeah, yeah. 566 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: I had been a struggling actor. You know, I got 567 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: out of acting school nine something like that. So here 568 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: I am in two thousand four starting to do the Office. 569 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: So fourteen years of struggling to kind of pay the 570 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: rent and then all of a sudden, you know, I 571 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: had a an actual career. It opened a lot of 572 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: doors for me. I got to do some cool movie 573 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: stuff and work with a lot of cool people and 574 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: be involved in some cool enterprises because of it. And 575 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm super grateful for that. But yeah, I'm I'm most 576 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: grateful for the fact that we made a gift for 577 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: audiences that I think it'll be around for a long time. 578 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: Why why is that? Though? I Mean, we've talked about 579 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: all of these elements that went into creating the show 580 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: and why we think it's special and what makes it 581 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: unique and that, But why now are eleven twelve year 582 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: old fourteen year old kids watching this show over something else. Well, 583 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: there's so many reasons. We've been over a lot of Um, sure, 584 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: it's an unlikely family that is formed. Um, they're relatable characters. 585 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: You want to hang out with them. But I also 586 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: think it's and Greg always said, like it's funny, but 587 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: ten percent kind of truthful in moving And if you 588 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: stay on that, you don't want to go more than 589 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: ten percent because then it starts to get sentimental and modeling. 590 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: But it just has that ten percent per episode of 591 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: of reality, of truth, of of of real connection that 592 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: that grounds the show, that gives it a lot of heart. 593 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: But also like the style of the comedy, it never 594 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: tells you when to laugh or that you have to laugh. 595 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: There's no laugh track. You can choose to laugh at 596 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: something or not. You know, someone can look at the camera. 597 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: Some people can find it hysterical, some people won't. Maybe 598 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: the third time you watch it you do find it 599 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: hysterical and you hadn't the previous time, So you're finding 600 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot of those details. We talked about the detail 601 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: that went into positioning the cameras and how you're going 602 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: to shoot stuff and get reaction shots and so I 603 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: also think there's a great amount of detail in there, 604 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: so it stands up on repeated watchings where a lot 605 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: of other shows may not because the jokes are kind 606 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: of hit a little harder. Um. There's so many reasons, 607 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I have to 608 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: think it's just the heart. I mean, I think people 609 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: just loved those characters and they just feel like they're 610 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,959 Speaker 1: a de facto family. Okay, there's been fifteen years since 611 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: we shot the pilot. Yep, who shot the pilot? This 612 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: is about Rain? Okay, Rain Wilson, here we go. Do 613 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: you consider your old coworkers family or friends? Remember you 614 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: can choose your friends, but now your family. Oh wow, 615 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: that's a profound question. You found a life's big question 616 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: packed into packed into the office. God, that's sets such 617 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: a good Um. I don't know. I guess I would 618 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: answer it like Michael Scott and he would say, as 619 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: the office cast, my family is the office cast. My friends, 620 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: I think they're my family. You're a jackass. You're a jackass. 621 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: Do you want me to be more? Sincerely? No? No? 622 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: Are you kidding? I love that? So that's good, jackass. 623 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you one more thing. So 624 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: in doing research for this podcast, I found out that 625 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: fifty two point one billion billion minutes we're streamed in alone. 626 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: Dear lord, I guess this is average lifespan over a 627 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people watching it for their entire life. What, 628 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: oh my god, that's nuts. People just need to get 629 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: a life, I mean, listeners, I love you all, thank 630 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: you for watching the Office. But there's so much us 631 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: to do. Read a fucking book people written by Rain Wilson. Yeah, 632 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: I actually I have written to So there's there's a 633 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: couple I have. Jenna has written a book and b 634 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: j has to read only books by the Office cast. 635 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: Listen to this podcast and read books by people from 636 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: the Office, from the and by our merchandise. All right, Rain, 637 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you Brian baum Gartner, and 638 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: I've missed you so much I hardly ever see you. 639 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on this show. This promises to 640 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: be really exciting and cool. I'm so excited for this thing. 641 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: You started to sound like you were being sarcastic, and 642 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: then you and then you turn genuine halfway very I'm 643 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: very that's kind of my thing is like, am I sarcastic? 644 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: Am I being a dick or am I being genuine 645 00:38:48,000 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: kind of writing that line? And yeah, okay, suck my balls. Okay, bye, 646 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: all right guys. That is it. Mr Rain Wilson. I 647 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: hope that you had as much fun listening to that, 648 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: to that conversation as I had having it. I don't 649 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: know if that's not quite right, but whatever, I enjoyed 650 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: that so much. Huge thanks to Rain for joining me 651 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: and talking to me, and bigger forget Rain, bigger thanks 652 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: to you for listening. I will be back next week 653 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: with more of the goods. We're gonna go deeper, We're 654 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: gonna go bigger, We're gonna go dive here. I don't know, 655 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: we know. I don't know numbers. I don't know words either, apparently, 656 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: but we'll see you next week. The Office. Deep Dive 657 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: is hosted an executive produce used by me Brian Baumgartner, 658 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is 659 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our 660 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man in the 661 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, 662 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode 663 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: was mixed by seth Olandski.