WEBVTT - Impeachment The Sequel 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.440 Greetings and welcome to woke a F with me Danielle Moody. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.960 I've been using my podcast to expand the scope of 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.920 wokeness from strictly a political lens to include art, relationships, spirituality, 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.919 and so much more. But sometimes we've still got to 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.480 talk about politics on woke a F. Daily every Thursday 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.760 is think Thursday, where I'm joined by two fabulous legal 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.760 guests to break down what's going on in law and government. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.240 I encourage you to head over to patreon dot com 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.680 slash woke a F and subscribe for just five dollars 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.720 so that you don't miss a single enlightening conversation. But 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.680 since we are living through the historic second impeachment of 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.479 a president who's already left office, I wanted to give 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.640 you a healthy taste of this week's think Thursday discussions. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.680 First up, former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirshner, who you may 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.840 know from MSNBC Peacock and his own Patreon show. He 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.560 reacted to the opening statements in the impeachment trial and 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.399 gave a legal breakdown of why the impeachment trial of 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:14.800 citizen Trump is in fact not unconstitutional. Glenn, I feel 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.880 like I don't know. For the last several months, every 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.679 week is another historic week in America. I would like 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.040 to get back to a time when we are bored, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.319 but that is not the case yet. So we've had 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:35.759 now our opening statements from both the house managers impeachment managers, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:41.240 as well as Donald Trump's last minute substitute B string 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.640 I guess team of lawyers. I want to get your 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:49.600 initial reactions before we dig in to specifics. So what 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.000 were your overall feelings on what you saw this week? 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.920 And a lot to unpack. So in Impeachment the Sequel, 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:06.440 Part two, I will say my first impression watching the 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.280 two teams of lawyers is if I ever need lawyers, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.880 I'm going to Raskins, Nogoose and Cicillini. I Am not 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.960 going to showing and cast right because it really it 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.800 was embarrassing. It wasn't the B team, it was the 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.880 you know, maybe the W team. They were way down 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.639 in the alphabet. I heard Nicole Wade say she counted 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.160 him up, counted Trump's defense teams up. This is the 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:39.200 seventh defense teams he's had and over the last four years. Yes, 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.080 and he's clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel. So 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.000 it was an embarrassment, and even some of the Republican 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:50.639 senators said it was an embarrassment. So look, the presentation 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:57.239 by the three House managers the prosecutors in substance was powerful. 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.880 It was you know, they hit the right legal notes, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.240 the right factual notes, the right procedural notes, and most 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.120 importantly from an old career trial prosecutor, the right emotional notes. 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:13.240 You know, the opening montage was put together chronologically in 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.280 a way that I hadn't seen it done before, relating 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.280 kind of almost in real time, how the insurrection unfolded, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.680 and importantly how it was inspired by Donald Trump. Then 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.720 when the defense team started its presentation, you know, it 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.720 was laughable. But I'll try to leave all the jokes aside. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.840 That the problem that they had, and they really didn't 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.640 handle it well, is that there are there are two 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:42.240 enormous hurdles for them to overcome argument that the Constitution 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.920 doesn't allow us to try at a Senate impeachment trial 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.920 a former president who was impeached while he was president. 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.440 The first is the plain language of the Constitution. It 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.080 says that the Senate shall have the power to try 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:03.200 all impeachments period there's no footnote, there's no caveat, there's 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.840 no asterisk that said the Senate shall have the power 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.520 to try all impeachments unless the president resigned or was 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.119 out of office right quick before the trial kicked off. Right, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.520 it's a silly argument that the Constitution prohibits it, because 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:23.760 the contrary is true. The Constitution expressly provides for it 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.960 with no caveats. The second is so the plain language 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.080 of the Constitution kills the defense argument. But the second 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.039 is precedent. When we talk about precedent, Danielle, as you know, 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.919 we're usually talking about court cases, Right, the Supreme Court 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.320 has said X Y and Z, and that's why X 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.080 Y and Z is precedent. Well, because there's this thing 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.520 called the political question doctrine, which says courts are not 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.960 permitted to touch to decide to litigate uniquely political questions 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.559 like impeachment. There will never be court precedent, Supreme Court 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.800 or otherwise on the ins and outs of an impeachment 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.320 hearing because it's a political question. So what do we do. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.279 We look to historical precedent, we look to political precedent, 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.000 we look to procedural precedent, and we have all of 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:20.400 that because this exact thing has been done before in 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.599 our nation's history multiple times. And people have probably heard 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.960 about the Marquee case. In eighteen seventy six, the Secretary 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.159 of War, William bell Napp, he was impeached. He resigned 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.080 because he didn't want the Senate to try his impeachment case. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.440 What did the Senate do? They tried his impeachment case 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.160 even though he had resigned. So in our nation's history 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.000 there is political precedent for the Senate to do exactly 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.279 what the Senate is doing. Those are two big deal 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:56.120 pieces of information or evidence or precedent that control this thing, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.440 the Constitution and our nation's history. And the Defense did 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.040 nothing to talk about that. All they did was they 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.279 were rambling. I don't know what they did. It was 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.679 absurd and frankly obscene. And but here's the thing, Danielle, 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:16.559 because we both saw it. Forty four spineless Republicans took 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:21.479 the jurisdictional out we talk about in law enforcement, giving 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.040 a suspect and out, like when we're trying to get 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.800 a suspect in a homicide interrogation to admit that he's 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.120 the one who killed the victim. But he didn't want 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.040 to admit it, doesn't want to admit it, we give 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.960 him an out. The out is usually a self defense out. Well, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.119 you know that guy had a gun, that guy you killed, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:40.919 and I heard he was going to pull it on you, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.359 so you kind of had to kill him in self defense. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.880 And then the suspect you can see the wheels turning. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.400 They're like, that's right, I killed him in self defense. Well, no, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.680 you didn't, because the facts don't support that. But I'm 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.599 glad we've now gotten over the hurdle of the fact 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.760 that you killed him. Let's continue the interrogation. It's called 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.960 giving him an out. The forty four senators took the 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:07.000 jurisdictional out and let me finish, not finish our conversation, 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.760 but finish on this. You've heard this said in various ways, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.080 one hundred times by lawyers. You know, the lawyers. I'm 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.800 not crazy about lawyers myself. Yeah, you've heard us say, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.240 we got the law on our side, Pound on the 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.400 law right when we've got the facts on our side, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.360 Pound on the facts, when we've gotten either on our side, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.080 pound on the table, make some noise distract. I'm going 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.960 to add one line based on what I saw yesterday. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:34.840 If you don't have the law on your side, and 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.880 you don't have the facts on your side, then pound 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:44.080 on partisanship and cowardice and weakness, because nothing resonates with 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:50.520 those Republican senators like partisanship, cowardice, and weakness. And forty 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:56.600 four of them took the out and that is despicable. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.960 It's unpatriotic. And if they are willing to sign up 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.280 for insurrection, what the heck else are they willing to 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:08.000 sign up for? This week on woke af Daily's Think 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.320 Thursday show, I was also joined by legal analyst Midwind Charles, 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.080 founder of Midwind Charles and Associates. Midwind tour into Trump's 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.280 clown car legal team and the absurdity of Mitch McConnell 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.320 delayed the Senate and impeachment hearing until after Trump had 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.160 left office, only to claim that holding the trial after 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.600 he left office would be unconstitutional. I love talking with 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.840 Midwind because, like me, she cuts through the bullshit. So 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.679 be sure to check out our full thirty minute conversation 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:40.120 at patreon dot com slash woke af With respect to 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.560 the attorneys who were representing Donald Trump, who quite literally 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.920 deserve no respect but please go ahead. It seems as 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.679 though they got their law degrees at Trump University. That 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.760 was not. First of all, that was not lawyering. It 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.920 was incoherent, it was unorganized, it was unclear what points 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.040 they were trying to make, and most importantly, they didn't 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.800 even address the very valid points that the House managers 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.080 made in their opening, which is, if we don't go 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.840 forward with this trial, you are effectively setting the precedent 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.960 for a president to go on a crime spree the 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.840 last week or week before he or she leaves office 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.000 and there would be no accountability. They didn't even address that, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.400 and to me, that's one of the strongest arguments as 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:29.160 to why having this trial is constitutional. It is appropriate. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.720 And following the opening, the Senate did vote going forward 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.800 in favor of this being constitutional, with I think six 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.640 Republicans joining in with all the Democrats. And I also 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.520 find that surprising because I'm like, why would Republicans who 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.920 love power cast a vote that would limit their power? 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.040 But then again, they have never been a party to 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.520 live by precedent. They have never been a party to 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.120 be consistent. We know this with the Amy Cody Barrett 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.320 hearing versus the refusal to have a hearing from Mary Garland. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.400 But I just thought the presentation by Trump's attorneys was abysmal. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.520 It was not helpful. There are some arguments that could 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.400 have been made that would have been favorable to Donald 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.520 Trump that would be reasonable. I'm not saying that they 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.920 would be persuasive, but there were reasonable arguments to make. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.120 For example, is it fair that someone should be held 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.480 responsible for the actions of someone else? Right? A reasonable argument. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.800 They didn't really even make those kinds of arguments. Yes, 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.160 they talked about First Amendment, but they didn't drive home 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.400 this idea, the danger of holding someone responsible for the 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:42.200 conduct of someone else. So I just couldn't even quite 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.480 understand what was happening as I listened to the two attorneys. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.480 It didn't make any sense to me. I mean, at 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.360 one point I tweeted and I said, literally, someone tell 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.800 me what is happening? Because I didn't go to law school, right, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.800 and so I always ask for clarification what I don't 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.360 understand shit, And everyone was just like, I'm watching it too, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.959 and I don't know. I have no idea what we're 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.560 looking at, and I don't know what I'm looking at. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.679 You know, what was striking to me is Claire McCaskill 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.080 on MSNBC. She said something that has stood out to 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.479 me this week, which was that in any other situation, 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.720 law firms, the top law firms in the country, would 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.360 be clamoring to represent the president of the United States, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:31.000 because representing the president of the United States is essentially 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:36.680 a career making moment, like presenting before the Supreme Court, right, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.800 like it is a career making moment. So what does 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.440 it say that what we know to this point Donald 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:49.560 Trump has gone through seven different defense teams and now essentially, yes, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.199 I guess Trump University produced Trump Law School, because that's 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.640 where these folks have come from. Because it looked like 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.400 it didn't even look like a Barnum and Bailey circus. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.240 It looked like a circus put on by like a 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.640 toddler in dogs like I don't even you know, it 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:11.559 just didn't It didn't make any sense. And when I watched, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:16.560 I wanted to get your reaction to Senator Cassidy, right, 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.280 the only surprise out of the band of forty four 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.520 Republicans who decided that insurrection is absolutely what they're doubling 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.080 down on. They can bullshit all they want and say 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.440 that Oh, it was unconstitutional. Note wasn't Mitch McConnell holding 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.160 up Merritt Garland's seat for three hundred and sixty three 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:39.000 days that was unconstitutional? This no, especially the fact that 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.920 Mitch McConnell had the option to bring this trial when 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.520 Donald Trump was still in office, which is when he 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.079 was impeached in the House, but chose not to. Right. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.439 So it's like, oh, it's too late to impeach him, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.320 and now it was too early to impeach him, right. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:13:00.760 And we know that Mitch McConnell is very kayle of 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.560 holding a hearing and ramming through whatever it is issue 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.520 it is that he wants and exhibit as is the 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.520 Amy Coney Barrett hearing. So the idea that there wasn't 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.959 enough time it couldn't have been done because I believe 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.360 the vote in the House to impeach Donald Trump was 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.000 January thirteenth, so he had what seven more days until 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.920 the end of his term in transition. So we know, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.439 as we know from the Amy Coney Barrett that if 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.839 Mitch McConnell really wanted to have that trial, he could 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.280 have done it because we saw how quickly and how 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.480 swift the Amy Coney Barrett hearings were done so the art, 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.640 so whatever argument it is that he had to delay 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.440 the trial isn't credible. And again, like I said earlier, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.199 bad faith, right, the idea, the idea that you would 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.360 delay a trial. And then when it comes time to 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.840 vote as to the idea that you would delay a 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.240 trial such that by the time it happens, Trump is 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.240 no longer in office. And then a vote comes up 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.920 as to whether it is constitutional to go through with 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.600 the trial because he's no longer in office, and you 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.960 vote no when you are the reason as to why 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.320 the trial is happening when he's no longer in office. Again, 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.000 bad faith, bad faith, not someone with integrity, not someone 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.080 with character, and not someone who can be trusted when 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.920 they give their word. And I hope Democrats learn from this. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.040 I don't know how many times they have to see 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:30.840 Mitch McConnell and Republicans do this and still try to 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.720 deal with them in anticipation that maybe one day this 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.840 will be the thing to get them to act with 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:46.640 good faith. Based on the willingness of forty four Republican 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.480 senators to stand with their dear leader instead of the law, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.840 it looks like Donald Trump will be acquitted a second time, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.400 but we need to have these conversations to point out 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.160 the lies, hypocrisy, and treason of the Republican Party. If 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.600 you know me, you know I call out the bullshit 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.680 every chance I get. So to hear me and all 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.440 my fabulous woke guests pop off five days a week. 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:12.280 Subscribe at patreon dot com slash woke af five dollars 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.160 a month get to you five amazing one hour shows 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.200 every single week, including think Thursdays, Woke Wednesdays, and my 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.480 favorite feel good Fridays. You don't want to miss any 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.000 of the wokeness I'm bringing, and once your friends hear it, 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.040 they won't either. So share the love until next time. 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.800 Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.120 get woke and stay woke as fuck.