1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: It's been very important to understand the conditions of reproductive 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: life that women lived before ROW and how little control 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: they had over their sexuality, their fertility, and their ensuing lives. 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: We went to a planned parenthood in d C and 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: they asked me if I was married, and unfortunately I 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: told them the truth and they said, we can't prescribe 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: birth control pills for you. I was sterilized by the 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Dalkon shield. In ninety three, I developed acute p i 9 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: D pelic inflammatory disease and encountered a doctor who did 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: not want to remove the Dalcoon shield because it was 11 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: own eugenical thinking. He thought, well, you already had a baby, 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna take a dow con shill out. 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: It must be some kind std lab. So for six 14 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: months he kept misdiagnosing my problem as my stomach became 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: more and more distended, until I actually went into a 16 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: call after my fallopian tubes exploded and so taken to 17 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: the hospital in an ambulance. Woke up with all of 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: my reproductive organs were missing. I'm Katie correct, and this 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: is abortion the Body Politics, Part two. Today, we're stepping 20 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: into the past long before brow to trace the roots 21 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: of today's abortion debate. The right to make decisions over 22 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: our own physical selves is the fundament of democracy. Feminist 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: icon Glorious steinhum, You know, in the past, when women 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: expressed this, they have been declared to be witches. This 25 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: is how women got to be witches, you know, because 26 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,639 Speaker 1: they actuss medicine for other women, and so women would 27 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: go into their homes pregnant to come out unpregnant. And 28 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: this was perceived as witchery, not only in in Europe, 29 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: but to some extent in New England, in this in 30 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: this country too. Here's the thing about abortion, It has 31 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: always existed. As activists Loretta Ross points out, as long 32 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: as women have sex with men, they're always gonna want 33 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: to control their reproduction, whether it was cal dung back 34 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: in the ancient Roman times or lie was that that 35 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: created in more modern times. And the majority of the 36 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: country does not oppose abortion, that's historian Leslie Reagan. Majority 37 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: of the country does not want any of these kinds 38 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: of laws. Why then, is abortion such a contentious, even 39 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: volatile issue in this country. Ricky Solinger is a historian 40 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: and author focusing on reproductive politics, certainly starting with the 41 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: slavery regime, which defined white women as distinct is essentially 42 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: distinct from Black women, and black women is essentially distinct 43 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: from white women. One can trace the different positions and 44 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: the different consequences of reproductive bodies depending on race. And 45 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: here again is Loretta Ross. My name's Loretta Ross, and 46 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm an associate professor at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts. 47 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: That was one of the twelve black women who created 48 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: the theory and practice of reproductive justice in June of 49 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: n At the beginning of the enslavement, most of the 50 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: enslavors thought that they could import sufficient women black you know, 51 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: people from Africa, women and men in in order to 52 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: enlarge their labor force. But early in the eighteen hundreds, 53 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: a law was passed forbidding the importation of additional African slaves, 54 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: and so that's when the force breeding became the dominant strategy. 55 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: One of the things that frustrates me frequently is to 56 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: the extent that any of this reproductive oppression is covered. 57 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: It's always covered from the perspective of what was done 58 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: to the Black community. Rarely do people cover it from 59 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: the perspective of what agency we exercise, what we did 60 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: for ourselves, and they missed the larger story of reproductive 61 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: resistance in our community. After the Civil War, that's when 62 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: articles began to appear in newspapers, white newspapers for the 63 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: most part, to saying that the black birth y it 64 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: was a problem, but just until it was not, because 65 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: when it wasn't about free labor, then the same reproductive 66 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: productivity was problem with types even though the reproductive caretaking 67 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: was not because he still had mammies and things like that. 68 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: So you had this bifurcated kind of racist analysis that 69 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: said that black women were irresponsible when it came to 70 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: taking care of our own children. But we're very good, 71 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: nanny said, taken care of white ones. We're sorry. But 72 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, from the perspective of black women, de Eb 73 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: debosed at a sociological study starting at the end of 74 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century in the beginning of the twentie and 75 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: he reported that the black birth rate between the end 76 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: of the Civil War and when he publisher's research have 77 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: been cut in half from the days of slavery. And 78 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: that was also the time that my research discovered that 79 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: to the extent that we have perspectives from black women 80 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: now that were sometimes reported in black newspapers as well 81 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: as Black women's organizations that they were talking amongst themselves 82 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: about managing their own fertility. They bought from Africa a 83 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: lot of midwifery knowledge, so they knew which plants and 84 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: herbs could cause, you know, an abortion. I think it 85 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: was an eight two. I saw a black feminist author 86 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: who said, not all women are designed to be mothers, 87 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: and we need to be able to control, you know, 88 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: what happens to our bodies and stuff. And of course 89 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: this was two decades before Margaret Singer came about. All 90 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: I can do is speculate from the bread crumbs of 91 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: evidence that I found is that they've wanted desperately to 92 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: control their own fertility after dewry, you know, centuries of 93 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: forth reading and not only multiple pregnancies, but also when 94 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: you're already living in miserable racial and economic conditions, you 95 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: want the best future for the children that you do 96 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: have and keep. Abortion was legal under common law in 97 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: early America, but they wouldn't have called it abortion. Really, 98 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about early in pregnancy, up until the point 99 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: of quickening, that was legal under common law. I'm Professor 100 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: Leslie Reagan. I'm a professor in the Department of History 101 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: at the University of Illinois or Banish Champaigne. My book 102 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: is When abortion was a crime Women Medicine in law 103 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: in the United States eighteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy three. 104 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: Quickening is the moment when a woman can fee you 105 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: the fetus moving within her. We might say, you could 106 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: feel kicking. You know, it's something you made, so it's 107 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: kicking so And when that occurred, then she knew, oh, 108 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: there there's life within me, and they would stop trying 109 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: to end this pregnancy, because after quickening was when if 110 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: you ended a pregnancy, if you aborted, that was what 111 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: was against the law. The quickening, as you can see, 112 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: is defined by women themselves. We know from domestic guide 113 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: books and um advertisements, and because they they would talk 114 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: about it as their mentees were obstructed, their body was 115 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: out of equilibrium. It was always very uh euphized language 116 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: like that. In the black newspapers of the day that 117 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: we're beginning to be published, there was a product called 118 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: puff p u F and the tagline to puff was 119 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: in your calendar worries, Well, what is a woman worried about? 120 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: The calendar? Right? That area is missing. There's domestic guide 121 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: books produced to the seventeen hundreds and the eighteen hundreds, 122 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: than they're republished over and over and over again, and 123 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: they include information and recipes, that's how to make teas 124 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: and how to bring the messies back. I think for 125 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: all all races of women, we shared this kind of 126 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: information around our kitchen tables and had conversations that we 127 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: did that men weren't privy too, because we didn't think 128 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: it was their business. That's what I've seen consistently through 129 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, millennium. That's what women do. We take care 130 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: of business, and we don't care what the church says, 131 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: what the state says, and what the men in our 132 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: lives say. We know who's gonna be around for that 133 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: baby and who's not. Kind of, you know, it's a 134 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: feature of our plumbing that we have a much higher 135 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: stake in these conversations than the sperm donors. The thing 136 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: to remember is that women's lives, up until this point, 137 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: we're part of the private sphere. But in the eighteen 138 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: fifties things started to change and men wanted to control, 139 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: even criminalize those private decisions. First, you have you have 140 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: a very small group of elite physicians pushing for new legislation. 141 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: Horatio store a specialist in gynecology and obstetrics at Harvard 142 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: Um in Massachusetts, is the person behind this, and he 143 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: begins to talk about how abortion is infanticide and that 144 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: when women think that they're getting their mensis back before quickening, 145 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: that they were all wrong, that this this was really 146 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: a life. So Storer really did something when he started 147 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: to name this early period when people are trying to 148 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: get their menscies back, named that as an abortion. So 149 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: he took something that was illegal, understood to be in moral, 150 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: understood to be um, you know, taking the life, uh, 151 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: developing life, and applied that term to this early period 152 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: that had never been treated as the same. Once slavery 153 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: was legally in dead, then the forced breeding that had 154 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: been visited on black women suddenly got visited on light women. 155 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: And that's when you have the beginning of the agitation 156 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: for the legal restrictions on birth control, information and abortions, 157 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: ending up in the eight seventy three Comstock Law, which 158 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: Comstock Anthony Comstock was the Postmaster General and he's the one, yeah, 159 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: all right, one of the male service after doing birth 160 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: control right, but he was the one who uh campaign 161 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: to make it illegal to distribute information or devices. That 162 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: led the birthday drill, which of course was most successible 163 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: to white women at that time. So this is post 164 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: Civil War, you know, the country has changed. African Americans 165 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: newly freed enslaved people are free. They are supposed to 166 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: have the vote, and for a while black men do 167 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: have the vote. So this is part of the I 168 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: think political underpinnings of why these laws get passed. The 169 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: other important part of this is at that time women 170 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: were organizing in various ways against prostitution of calling out men. 171 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: They were also trying to get into medical school. So 172 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: the same doctor storer and the politicians are like, you 173 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: should be doing your duty. Women do not belong out 174 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: trying to be involved in politics x. They should be 175 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: having babies and raising them to be the citizens of America. 176 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: And and the doctors are particularly threatened by the possibility 177 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: of women becoming doctors taking over their business frankly, and 178 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: they resent their efforts to get into medical school, to 179 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: get into Harvard, to claim higher education. So it's in 180 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies that the states make 181 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: abortion illegal and criminalized it by eighteen eighty. Every state 182 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: has criminalized abortion from conception on. My name is Lexi, 183 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: and my abortion was amazing. Um. I did not feel 184 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: that way in the moment because of all these stigma 185 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: and barriers I experienced, But choosing not to become a 186 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: parent was the best decision I've ever made for myself. 187 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: I had an abortion, and when I was in college, 188 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: I was a junior attending U mass University of Massachusetts. Amorous. Actually, 189 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: let me let me provide some background information. UM. I 190 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: was born to a young single mom um and raised 191 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: by my grandparents. Love them to death, but they are 192 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: very old school too, elderly black people from the Deep South. UM, 193 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: and I was raising a very conservative household. UM. I 194 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: also attended Catholic school from kindergarten to twelfth grade, so 195 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: I did not I did not really have much knowledge 196 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: or information about my own body, any type of sexual health. 197 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: So when I did go to college and didn't know 198 00:14:54,200 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: anything about UM protection or really well informed UM knowledge 199 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: about options. If I were to be pregnant, I was 200 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: really shook. UM and I don't really know what to do, 201 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: Like I didn't know who to call, you know, my family, 202 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: like we've dealt with a lot of familial separation, so 203 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, in incarcerations, Like my mom wasn't around. Um, 204 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: like I said my grandparents, that wasn't really an option 205 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: I was. I did not have a lot of money. 206 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: I was trying to finish school. My partner was very abusive, 207 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: and yeah, I actually initially intended to continue my pregnancy. 208 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: I was going to continue my pregnancy just because of 209 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: these things that I had heard about abortion, which weren't good. 210 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: The very false narratives, the stigmatizing language, the hush hush 211 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: around it. I found out in pregnant, I'm like, I 212 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: need to go there to not just sound like there, 213 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: to not just sound And I was only about four 214 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: weeks long, which is pretty early to find out. And 215 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: in the following weeks, I became extremely sick, um bedridden, 216 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Like I was telling my grandparents I had mono. I 217 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: was trying to like contact the school, trying not to 218 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: like get it like kicked out because I'm missing so 219 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: much class, while also like trying to avoid my abusive 220 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: partner on campus. And yeah, it was a mess. I 221 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: was so sick. I lost like thirty pounds in like 222 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: a month and a half. I did not know what 223 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: was happening in my body. I did call my ob 224 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: joyant and they were like, well, we can't see what's 225 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: happening to you is normal, and you have to be 226 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: for ten weeks before we book an appointment with you. 227 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: And I'm like, what, I'm an older singling before, and 228 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: I've been there. I've helped my mother give birth, like 229 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: I have seen many pregnancies in my family, and I 230 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: I knew what was happening to me was not normal. 231 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: And even even if these things come with pregnancy, if 232 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: you're not helping me get through them, who knows without 233 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: surrounding support. I was like, there's no way I can 234 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: make it through it. And in my mind, all I 235 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: can think about is how many black women and other 236 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 1: women of color die at the hands of this medical 237 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: system that we have. And all I could think when 238 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: I called plant parenthood was I will not die because 239 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: of this pregnancy and because no one will listen to me. 240 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: So I did have medication abortion, went to plan Parenthood, 241 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: God pills, went home me and my best friend, and 242 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: then I woke up and the pregnancy was over, and 243 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: for the first time in six weeks, I had eaten 244 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: real food, and my best friend had just went got 245 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: like twelve inch chicken palm grinder um, and I just 246 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: I was like, I need that, and physically like I 247 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: was relieved, even if my even if I couldn't you know, 248 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: grasp that at the time, because when I went out 249 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: the bath room and I saw the pregnancy was over all, 250 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: I like, it was just the biggest sign of relief, 251 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: immediately followed by a lot of internalized shame and stigma 252 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: and just hatred. But in that moment, I am able 253 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: to look back and say, even regardless of everything that was, 254 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: it was nothing but relief in that moment that I 255 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: knew I was not going to be a parent because 256 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: I had made this decision to have an abortion. It 257 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: did take me a hot minute to be able to 258 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: differentiate my abortion being negative and all the external barriers 259 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: and all the other things around it being negative. It 260 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: was really coming and learning that, you know, it's the 261 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: same white supremacist rhetoric that tells me that I'm a murderer, 262 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm a sowful person for having abortion. Okay, well that's 263 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: the same the same piece people would also call me 264 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: a welfare queen if I had continued my pregnancy and 265 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: needed to help with social services and probably want to 266 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: have access to them. So I would have probably just 267 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: been homeless and been an awful person for that or 268 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: the same white supremacy that I continue my pregnancy. I 269 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: have a child, I'm raising this child, and you go 270 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: and murder them in the street for no reason. So 271 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: learning really how nothing black and brown Indigenous people and 272 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: families do under white supremacy is good enough really helped 273 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: me realize that I don't I don't need to follow 274 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,719 Speaker 1: any of that. The reason I share my story is 275 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: because historically black and brown Indigenous people, you know, we've 276 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: always been told and dictated how to raise our families, 277 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: what to do. We've always been shadowed um and we're 278 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: here to claim that it's ours we're taking and not 279 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: a bad period more right after this, in the first 280 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: couple of decades after abortion becomes illegal, abortions continue to happen. Again, 281 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: here's Leslie Reagan. So there's always an exception in the law, 282 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: and those those abortions that are done by doctors are 283 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: called therapeutic abortions. The Great Depression in the nineteen thirties 284 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: increases demand hugely. People who collected evans they could see it, 285 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: they could see a rise in abortions and a decline 286 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: in family size. There are clinics that developed that are open, 287 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: that are well known um of people who provide a 288 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: who are specialists in abortion, and they have an office 289 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: with their name on the door. They have business cards 290 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: and people know who they are there. They are people 291 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: who provide excellent abortions. They're safe, it's very safe. But 292 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: there were also questionable and sometimes dangerous options that emerged 293 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: at the same time. So in New York City, for example, 294 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: historian Daniel Williams, there were some abortion senicates which by 295 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: the were performing, according to some claims at the time 296 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: to two fifty thousand abortions per years. It was of 297 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: a thriving business, but they were connected with organized crime. 298 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: They employed non licensed physicians, a lot of medical school 299 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: dropouts and others who had a little bit of medical 300 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: training but not enough to practice legitimately. And most of 301 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: the time they could practice somewhat safe abortions, but it varied, 302 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: and of course women were taking their lives into their 303 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: hands going to some of those places, the so called 304 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: back alley butchers. Professor Carol Joffey is a sociologist who 305 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: has long studied abortion care, both physicians as well as 306 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: nonphysicians who were horrible, I mean, who were who were 307 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: medically inept. I mean, this is where most of the 308 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: injuries and deaths came from. In addition to women attempting 309 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: their own abortions, and these these guys, and it really 310 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: was all guys at the time. Uh, we're also very 311 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: ethically challenged. There are horrible stories of demanding sexual favors, 312 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: are stopping halfway through the abortion and demanding more money. 313 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: These butchers made an enormous impression on the rest of 314 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: the medical field, the rest of medicine that had not 315 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: been involved, uh in abortion care. And remember the abortion 316 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: providers before Row were tiny, tiny portion of medicine as 317 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: a whole. Um. They somehow equated abortion provision with these 318 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: very ethically and and medically challenged people. And so beginning 319 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: of the nineteen thirties, several doctors, especially in New York, 320 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: said that the law was not working and rather than 321 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: try to make abortion laws more stringent, what they wanted 322 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: to do was to make abortion legal in certain circumstances. 323 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: Rather than than continue to endanger more women. What would 324 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: be best for society, will be best for women's health 325 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: would be to just admit that we can't really control 326 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: women's behavior with these laws. But Leslie Ringing points out 327 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: these doctors pushing for reform their outliers. At least at 328 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: this point, they are radicals. Uh politically, they're they're very unusual. 329 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: What happens instead is that abortion, despite being illegal, becomes 330 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: much more visible. I mean it starts in the thirties, 331 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: but really by the methods of policing abortion change, and 332 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: these clinics that had been operating for ten twenty thirty 333 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: years openly suddenly are rated and closed by the police 334 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: and prosecutors. They now are going after the safe practitioners 335 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: who are who are also quite visible, and deliberately will 336 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: time raids. You know, a group of police four or five, six, seven, 337 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 1: eight ten police burst in and hopefully find specialist in 338 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: the middle of a procedure, capture that person, the doctor, 339 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: the patient, and all of the recovering patients, and collect 340 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: all of the medical records and gather all of it 341 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: for evidence for prosecution for illegal abortion. And this became 342 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: the standard across the country, these police raids. So it 343 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: became harder to find a good provider, and it became 344 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: more expensive. Meanwhile, hospitals start cracking down to the departments 345 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: of obstetrics and gynecology start to create these therapeutic abortion 346 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: review boards um inside their own departments. So these committees 347 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: are set up and they end up deciding what is 348 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: a legal, legitimate abortion, what's legal and what isn't. And 349 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: it meant women they knew they had to get permission, 350 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: which of course means more delay. And you know, in 351 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: some of these cases I saw there were four or 352 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: five doctors who are on this committee, and every single 353 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: one of them had to personally determine how far along 354 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: her pregnancy was, so it's you know, coerced multiple gynecological exams. 355 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: It means doctors learn, oh, these cases will never get 356 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: by and they don't ring him. So that also fuels 357 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: this sense that that doctors have the hospitals that they 358 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: need to be careful. They don't want their reputations hurt 359 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: by abortion. It is now, it's common, and yet it's 360 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: highly stigmatized. It's it's it's in the paper a lot 361 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: associated with death and crime and the mob, and and 362 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: yet you can't talk about it. And in response, the 363 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: people who provide abortions knowing now that this is what's happening, 364 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: they change their practices. It becomes much more clandestine, it 365 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: goes underground. It makes it very scary, and everyone is 366 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: of course aware of the potential of police and they 367 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: realize that they are breaking the law. So it really 368 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: changes the practice and availability of abortion. In the past, 369 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: there was much more um worry and agony and fear 370 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: about whether or not you were pregnant. Again here's Glory A. Steinham. 371 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: And if you were pregnant, it didn't wish to be 372 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: much more likelihood that you would have to somehow get 373 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: together the money and the time, often in secret, uh 374 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: to travel far away and get an abortion. That was 375 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: terrifically painful and time consuming and ridiculous, because that's not 376 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: a democracy. Either we have in a democracy at a 377 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: minimum decision making power over our own bodies, or we 378 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: are not living in a democracy. To lose that power, 379 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: if you're a man, you have to commit some horrible 380 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: crime and go to prison. You know. It's yet it 381 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: was applying to all to all women, no matter what 382 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: we did. How many institutions of society had to collaborate 383 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: in order to suppress women's sexual and reproductive autonomy and 384 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: support second class citizenship for women. Historian Ricky Solinger. So, 385 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: whether we're talking about the media, the ways that doctors 386 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: set up punishing abortion boards and hospitals, how doctors refused 387 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: to give prescriptions for contraception until after marriage, this is 388 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: a cautionary message for the future people who understood that 389 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: being able to control fertility is an absolute life necessity 390 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: for most women. There were many people all over the 391 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: country who capitalized on women's desperation. The reason that I 392 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: stress the importance of the project of criminal abortion and 393 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: how um many institutions were involved in bolstering and enforcing 394 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: the culture and the politics that degraded women's sexuality and 395 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: reproduction is because that has such implications for the future. 396 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: The thing that went on then in sixty six was 397 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: that there was nowhere to go for help. People had 398 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: no way of finding out where are you could get 399 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: an abortion. It was like a speak you. I didn't 400 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: even know who amongst the women girls that I knew 401 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: were sexually act I'm Lisa Kushner. I'm seventy five. I 402 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: had an abortion in nineteen sixty six when they were illegal. 403 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: I was living in New York at the time. I 404 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: didn't know anybody who I could ask. I had a 405 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: couple of relatives who were nurses, so I asked them, 406 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: but they didn't have any resources for me, and there 407 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: was a lot of like name around it, like could 408 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: I even ask about it. It was a real powerless 409 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: feeling and a sensation of like I actually I thought 410 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: I would have to die doing an abortion on myself, 411 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: is what I thought would happen if I couldn't get, um, 412 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, some kind of access, I was going to 413 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: have to die. I didn't occur to me at all 414 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: that that would be a reasonable option to go through 415 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: with a pregnancy. So um, in the age of pay 416 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: phones and not having cell phones, I made a thousands, 417 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: hundreds of phone calls to women that I didn't know, 418 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: but friends of friends of friends who may know somebody 419 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: who was an abortion. Finally, after like a couple of 420 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: weeks of making a lot of calls, somebody called me 421 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: back and I don't know her name, and um, but 422 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: she told me every single thing about her abortion experience 423 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: and all the details, everything to expect. And I feel 424 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: like she saved my life because it was just like 425 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: a lifeline through my future. And then I had a 426 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: few weeks to decide how I was going to get 427 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: three hours away to his another state. I couldn't figure 428 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: out what to do, but I eventually told my twin 429 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: brother because he had a car and I figured he 430 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: would have to drive me. But he forced me to 431 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: tell my parents, and it was shocking to my poor parents. 432 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: My mother just flat me for the first time in 433 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: her life, and my father like rose. And this is 434 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: where my story is very different from the story of 435 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: most women, because they ended up helping me. They ended 436 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: up helping me go for this abortion that they went 437 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: with me to this uh dark office building in Newark, 438 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: New Jersey. We walked through the side entrance of this building, 439 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: which had an open door. The hallways were dark, and 440 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: there was a very little bit of light dating coming 441 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: in from a couple of windows. There were no lights on, 442 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: and we're looking for the numbers on the door first 443 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: to get to the right office. And we're going down 444 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: this hallway which was very long in my memory. Who 445 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: stive to sixty seven? That kind of thing, And then 446 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: you turn a corner and then there was whatever the 447 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: number was, and then opening the door, looking into this 448 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: dark waiting room and a woman standing UH up in 449 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: a white uniform like a like a receipt a nurse's uniform. 450 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: And this man, the abortionist, he was a very slender, 451 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: small person, and he said he was from the phil Things. 452 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: We were making small talk. I could tell when he 453 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: examined me that he had done it before that he 454 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: was not a you know, he wasn't fumbling. He gave 455 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: me directions, you know, on the table, and you know, 456 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: he was explaining what he was doing as he was 457 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: doing it, like a good practitioner. I didn't know enough, 458 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, I knew nothing. It was my second public exam. 459 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: This procedure was also unusual because he uh inserted a 460 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: plug of medical seaweed in my cervicts, which allowed the 461 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: sortucts to open slowly, which was a good technique at 462 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: the time and probably still now. But I had really 463 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: bad cramps all night in a motel room, and my 464 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: poor parents were like comforting each other, and I was 465 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: like trying not to be freaked out. But it worked out, Okay. 466 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: I had this procedure a DNC the next day and 467 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: they took me. We went back to that house and 468 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: I was okay. I didn't an infection, I didn't get raped, 469 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: which was a circumstance of a lot of women, and 470 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: I didn't die, so I felt very fortunate. When we 471 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: come back, the police did not do anything, the politicians 472 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: did not do anything. Because of the moral authority of 473 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: these clergy people. They were left alone. An unexpected lifeline 474 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: for people needing abortions. In the nineteen sixties, as abortion 475 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: goes underground, support networks start to emerge around the country 476 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: to help women find safe, if not yet legal, abortions. 477 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: What a lot of people don't realize is that religious 478 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: leaders were helping to My name is the Reverend Barber 479 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: Girl Act. I was a counselor, a coordinator, and a 480 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: trainer with Clergy Consultation Service from nineteen seventy one to 481 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies three in northeastern Pennsylvania. There is this long 482 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: history of women in all times and places choosing to 483 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: have abortions, not always UM safe ones and clergy were 484 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: often one of the places that people came. In nineteen 485 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: sixty seven, UM the Reverend Howard Moody at Judson Memorial 486 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: Church in New York City and a group of mainline 487 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: Protestant ministers in New York City and Jewish rabbis wrote 488 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: an article in the newspaper describing this service that they 489 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: were offering. They called it Clergy Consultations Service for Abortions, 490 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: and it was a service to provide women a place 491 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: two receive support and information to make the decisions that 492 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: they wanted and needed for a safe and legal abortion 493 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: in some cases because they were referring some women to 494 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 1: England or into Mexico and in some cases still legal 495 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: abortions in the places where they were living. We had 496 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: a brochure that was available in churches and I'm sure 497 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: in universities and other places on It was a telephone 498 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: number and basically an answering service, but one of us 499 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: was the phone answer for each week, one member of 500 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: the service and we would leave the person who would 501 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: receive the calls. We would meet in an office. We 502 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: would listen to the woman. We would listen to whatever 503 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: she was struggling with in her own decisional process. We 504 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: would provide information. If she chose an abortion, we had 505 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: an information sheet about how to make the appointment, what 506 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: it would cost, how to get there. We would encourage 507 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: them to call us afterwards and certainly to come back 508 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: because no matter what decision a woman makes. There are 509 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: always going to be question second thoughts, losses to be mourned, 510 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: changes to be you know, lived into. We also did 511 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: the kind of talking in various settings and groups and 512 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: churches about the work we were doing, talking to legislator 513 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: chures in the states we were in about why abortion 514 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: should be legalized. But we were public. We had numbers 515 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: that were shared and I think it was in one state. 516 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: It was in the you know that when you opened 517 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: the the yellow Pages and the beginning, there would be 518 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: clergy consultation service just listed in many phone books. We 519 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: were listed in phone books. There were thousands of us, 520 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: and we were all around the country providing these resources. 521 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: And one of the things that was interesting is even 522 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: in New York where it when this started and it 523 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: was illegal to refer anyone for an abortion, the police 524 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: did not do anything. The politicians did not do anything. 525 00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: Because of the moral authority of these clergy people. They 526 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: were left alone. No one was prosecuted that I know of, 527 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: for their work. There was fear of it. Um we 528 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: all knew we were taking a risk. It felt like 529 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: an important ethical decision. It felt courageous. I knew it was. 530 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: It was. I was cutting ground. It was a hard 531 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: time to be a woman in ministry, and it was 532 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 1: a hard time to be a voice for a woman's 533 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: right to choose. And it was dangerous. I mean we 534 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: were yes, I was on the cutting edge, and it 535 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: was a radical thing to do in the sense of 536 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: being rooted in the truth as I saw it. In 537 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: Chicago in nineteen sixty nine, another much more secretive group 538 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: formed to help women get safe abortions. It was known 539 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: simply as Jane. Here's one of the members. I'm Eileen Smith. 540 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: I was in Jane and I had an abortion through Jane. 541 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: I was in Chicago and happened to see the ad 542 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: for Jane and the underground paper and I didn't even 543 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: have a phone at the time. When I called and 544 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: left the message, somebody called me at work and was 545 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: so kind and very thoughtful and didn't let anything. You know, 546 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: they knew that what they were dealing with, and they 547 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: told me that I could pay them off over time, 548 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: that someone would call and explain everything to me. I'm like, 549 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: who are these people? Some of the Janes, like Eileen Smith, 550 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: who had kept their participation secret, are finally coming out 551 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: into the open thanks to a new HBO documentary called 552 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: The Janes from filmmakers Emma Peldis and Tia Lesson, Here's Tea. 553 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: This was like a group of very inventive, resourceful young women. 554 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: They could have been robbing banks, you know, they they 555 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: got they were underground, they were secretive, they had it down. 556 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: And what did they choose to do? They choose, you know, 557 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: they chose to put their lives on the line to 558 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: help other women in need. It wasn't politics with a 559 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: big p. It was politics, you know, it was. It 560 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: was politics as personal. It's not an overstatement to say 561 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: Ei Leaned that the Jains were a godsend for you. 562 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: Uh And and they were not only kind but supportive. 563 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: And you talk about the woman who drove you was 564 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: seven months pregnant. H And why why were you impressed 565 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: by that? Well, first of all, I knew these people 566 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: were doing something illegally, putting themselves out there for me. 567 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: And I was in a room with a bunch of 568 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: other people and I had to go by myself. I 569 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: remember read in a book and being really like, you know, anxious, 570 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: and this woman walks in and it's like, oh, the 571 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: driver's here, and she's seven months pregnant. I'm like, I 572 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: thought it was so cool that someone who clearly wanted 573 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: to have a baby, because I knew I wanted to 574 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,720 Speaker 1: have kids. I really knew I did. I was willing 575 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: to put herself out there for someone who couldn't or 576 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to have a baby. Right then, I just 577 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: it really, it really impressed. It's like whoa. So, you know, 578 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: we all get in the car and she drove and 579 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: was so nice and explained everything. The woman who sat 580 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: with me while I had the abortion was amazing. You know. 581 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: You walked into this bedroom and she said, you know, 582 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 1: get undressed from the bottom down. I'm gonna blindfold you. 583 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: And I thought, oh, this sounds horrible. But she was 584 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: so nice and sat there. And then the person who 585 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: came in to do the abortion, who I assumed was 586 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 1: a doctor and wasn't. He was so personable. I mean, 587 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,399 Speaker 1: he was just relaxed, as won't take too long, you're 588 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: not you know, uterus feels good. He explained everything, and 589 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: I just remember being really shaky because I hadn't eaten anything. 590 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,439 Speaker 1: I remember standing up afterwards. You know, when he left 591 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: the room, she took the blindfold up, and then I 592 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: went to stand up and I almost just crashed, and 593 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: she goes, you haven't eaten anything, and she brought me 594 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: into this kitchen and gave me a cup of tea 595 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: and a hard boiled egg, and I just, you know, 596 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: you're like, where where am I? This is? This is 597 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: like wow, okay. It was like the most positive medical 598 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:38,439 Speaker 1: experience I never had, never mind the legal abortion. When 599 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: it was discovered that Jane's quote unquote doctor didn't have 600 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: a medical license. Instead of calling it quits, the Janes 601 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: dug in deeper. It gave the group, uh, you know 602 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,479 Speaker 1: and in on, hey, if you're not a doctor, then 603 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: you know, why don't we learn how to do it? So, 604 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,040 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of people got trained and it 605 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: was pretty it was pretty amazing. There were a bunch 606 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: of different jobs. There was somebody who you know, took 607 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: the phone calls and took all the information, and then 608 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: there was the people that organized the information. We had meetings. 609 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: They would bring all the cards to the meetings. We had, 610 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, some people that went to what we called 611 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: the front where people met. They sometimes brought their kids. 612 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: The people that ran the front. We had to have food, tea, coffee, 613 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: stuff for the kids. To play with, and then there 614 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: were people that work the actual abortion, and then there 615 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: was a person driving. And besides that, you were doing counselings. 616 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: You've got a group of people to call and then 617 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: you tell them where you lived. They were going to 618 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: come to your house. You set up a time, and 619 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: then you would explain to them exactly what was going 620 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: to happen. They were going to be going to one 621 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: apartment or house, driven to another one, and you know, 622 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,720 Speaker 1: you told them what to expect. So you know that 623 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 1: that took up a lot. And that's what I love 624 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: doing the counseling, I mean, because you met all these 625 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: interesting people. But you know, so there were a bunch 626 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 1: of different things you ended up doing, and usually it 627 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: was a combination of those things. I was young, I 628 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: really didn't have a lot to lose. A lot of 629 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,439 Speaker 1: me thought that was very cool, you know, I mean, 630 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: we got to it was something illegal, but very cool. 631 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: And plus the work was so immediate, you know, you 632 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: could think about it. But then there was there was 633 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: like another thirty calls coming in of people asking for abortions, 634 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: so you were like, well, you know, we gotta keep 635 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: taking this information down and go into the meetings. And 636 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: putting the medications in and setting you know, the work 637 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: was just made. It also immediate. Dr Warren Hearn was 638 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: a medical student back in the mid nineteen sixties. He 639 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: saw firsthand what unsafe illegal abortions were doing two women. 640 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: The main thing that our experience was taking care of 641 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: women on the guy in Ecology Award, and my classmates 642 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: and I would be up just about all night every 643 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: night taking care of these women who were very critically 644 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: ill with acceptions, with overwhelming infection. I really didn't understand 645 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: what was going on. I knew they were very sick, uh, 646 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: and nobody talked about this, but I learned later that 647 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: these were women were had probably had an unsafe illegal 648 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: abortion and they were suffering from the effects of that. 649 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: I was simply struck by how sick they were. Again, 650 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: here's Leslie Reagan. By the nineteen sixties, the major public 651 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: hospitals in Chicago and New York and l A. They 652 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 1: have five or six thousand women every single year coming 653 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: in following an abortion, bleeding injured with perforated uterus or 654 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: perforated intestines um an infection. This is part of what 655 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: fuels the movement to decriminalize abortion. And the support of doctors, 656 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:10,280 Speaker 1: where the majority of doctors our favor reforming and repealing 657 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,879 Speaker 1: the laws because they see the results and they know 658 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: they've been taught in medical school, they might be performing themselves. 659 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: They know that abortion can be perfectly safe and perfectly 660 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: simple procedure, and that this should not be happening. There 661 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: should not be women bleeding and dying. They could see 662 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 1: it's a disaster, that that it's mostly poor women, high 663 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:41,359 Speaker 1: proportions of black women and Latino women, and that it's 664 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: completely inequitable and unfair in terms of who is able 665 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: to get those safe abortions from doctors, the therapeutic abortions 666 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:54,719 Speaker 1: and everybody else. A growing national push for reform continued. 667 00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: Doctors were joined by lawyers, activists, and clergy lobbying state legislatures. Again, 668 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: here's Reverend Barbara Gerlock of the Clergy Consultation Service. We 669 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: kept statistics and who these women were, their ages, if 670 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,800 Speaker 1: they had a religious affiliation, the decision that they made 671 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: with the information that was gathered between sixty seven in 672 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, the clergy who were involved in Clergy Consultation 673 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:34,479 Speaker 1: Service had a major impact on the debate that went 674 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: into the legalization of abortion in New York State in 675 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. In nineteen seventy, the New York State Assembly 676 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: voted to legalize abortion up to twenty four weeks. So 677 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's becoming more available, but not everybody 678 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: could find the information. Not everyone ever heard about Jane 679 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: called Jane called the collective or or new where to go? 680 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: And and and even as becomes legal in New York 681 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,799 Speaker 1: and they're sending people to New York, not everybody could go. 682 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: They never found out about them. And so there were people. 683 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's cases of women who died um in 684 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,359 Speaker 1: those years when you know, legal abortion was legal in 685 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: some states, and they could have gone there, but they 686 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: didn't have the money, they didn't have any way to go. 687 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: States may have been chipping away at restrictive abortion laws, 688 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: but something bigger had to be done. Sometimes when someone 689 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: doesn't really know who I am, though they've heard that 690 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer, but they don't know how much about me, 691 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: And I'd say, what have you ever heard of the 692 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 1: case of Roversus White? Next week on abortion, The Body 693 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: Politic wrote and it's unraveling abortion. The Body Politic is 694 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: executive produced by me Katie Curic and was created by 695 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,480 Speaker 1: a small team led by our intrepid supervising producer Lauren Hansen. 696 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Derrick Clements and Jessica Crying 697 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,400 Speaker 1: chich researched by Nina Perlman, and a special thanks to 698 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,719 Speaker 1: k c M producers Courtney Litz and Adriana Fasio