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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello Again and Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Book of Joe podcast with Tom Verducci and

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Speaker 1: Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: And this is a special World Series.

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Speaker 1: Wrap Up edition wrap up because that's what the Texas

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Speaker 1: Rangers did in five games, winning the World Championship the

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Speaker 1: one hundred and nineteenth World Series. Joe, I didn't expect

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Speaker 1: it to be over in five that quickly when it began.

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Speaker 1: But after seeing those teams the first couple of games,

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Speaker 1: I will be honest with you, Joe, I thought Texas

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Speaker 1: was the better team, and I thought they did have

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Speaker 1: a chance to win five. So give me your quick

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Speaker 1: thumbnail take on what happened here in the World Series

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Speaker 1: for Texas to take Arizona out in five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you, just from a distance, and

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Speaker 3: you had a much better seat than I did. But

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Speaker 3: it just on TV appeared as the Texas was a

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Speaker 3: better ball club, more well rounded, better lineup up and down.

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Speaker 3: You know, I still like the I'd like the Diamondbacks

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Speaker 3: pitching a little bit. I think a team on the field,

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Speaker 3: they were definitely surpassed. They had the two superstars that

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Speaker 3: came through. Definitely and another one that got injured. But

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Speaker 3: they're talking about Sieger and Simeon and then and of

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Speaker 3: course Larcia. They were just different. They were better. They're

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Speaker 3: just they're a better ball club. During the course of

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Speaker 3: the season where they went up with right around ninety wins,

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Speaker 3: they should have been masked at least ninety five. They're

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Speaker 3: in the trouble a couple of times, but there they were.

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Speaker 3: They were the better ball club, so that that kind

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Speaker 3: of went out in the end that the better team won.

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Speaker 3: I think the youth and inexperience of overall of the

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Speaker 3: Diamondbacks kind of started to show through there at the end.

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Speaker 3: You know, they were like almost so naive to the

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Speaker 3: point that they won eighty four games and who cares,

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Speaker 3: We're still going to win the World Series. They carried

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Speaker 3: that attitude a long way, in a good way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm not denigrating the team that I had with the

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Speaker 3: Cubs won the World Series and sixteen. I think we

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Speaker 3: were considered at that time the youngest team ever to

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Speaker 3: win the World Series. I don't know if that's still

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Speaker 3: true or not, but yeah, there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: the inexperience showed up, and then I just Like I said,

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Speaker 3: the real of all the Montgomery and then of the

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Speaker 3: position players of Texas kind of took over. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to what you mentioned about

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Speaker 1: the youthfulness of Arizona in a second, because it's an

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Speaker 1: important point and there is a theme there or a

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Speaker 1: thread with your sixteen Cubs team.

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Speaker 2: But let me start with this Joe Game two.

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Speaker 1: Everybody got excited about how Arizona was playing this small

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Speaker 1: ball style of game, right, putting bunts down, running first

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Speaker 1: the third, stealing bags.

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Speaker 2: Listen. I love to see that style of play. I'm

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Speaker 2: glad it's back in the game.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say this, You're not winning a

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Speaker 1: championship playing that way. I think it's what it is

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Speaker 1: is it's a compliment to having power. You need all

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Speaker 1: kinds of avenues to win a game. If that is

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Speaker 1: your only avenue to win a game, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be really, really difficult. I thought the praise of small

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Speaker 1: ball went way overboard. Let me give you some numbers here.

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Speaker 1: Arizona out hit Texas in this series two seventy to

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Speaker 1: two eighteen. Arizona had more hits in Texas and the

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Speaker 1: World Series forty seven to thirty eight, not even close

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Speaker 1: so far. Stolen bases not close Arizona seven to one,

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Speaker 1: sacrifice hits Arizona five to nothing. Runners in scoring position

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Speaker 1: both at bats and hits, Arizona had the advantage of

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Speaker 1: there too.

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Speaker 2: They lost the.

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Speaker 1: Series in five games. Why simple as this, folks. Texas

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Speaker 1: out homereed Arizona eight to three. That's what changes a game.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sorry nobody wants to hear this. We all

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Speaker 1: want to fall in love with small ball, and again

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Speaker 1: I'm saying I love it too, but you're not winning

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Speaker 1: the World Series if you can't slug the baseball.

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Speaker 2: You need both. So that's my take on it.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm interested to hear your take. I know

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Speaker 1: you're like me. You like to see guys move the ball.

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Speaker 1: I love having speed back.

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Speaker 2: In the game.

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Speaker 1: No one's saying that we want to go back to

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Speaker 1: three true outcomes. We're not saying that. But Texas won

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Speaker 1: this World Series with one stolen base and no sacrifice hits,

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Speaker 1: and they had nine fewer base hits overall than the

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Speaker 1: Arizona Diamondbacks, and they won this series quickly in five games.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want it all. I want to be able

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Speaker 3: to do all those different things that to me still

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Speaker 3: the right way to build a team. There's going to

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Speaker 3: be nice that you do outslug the other team, and

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Speaker 3: there's going to be times when the other team's pitching

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Speaker 3: is so good and maybe for a series whatever, that

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Speaker 3: you'd really just they're not throwing you home runs. I

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Speaker 3: still believe that pitchers throw home runs more than hitters

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Speaker 3: hit them. So I like the idea that you're able

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Speaker 3: to do all these different things, move the ball when

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Speaker 3: it's necessary, creat a run when it's necessary. And again,

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Speaker 3: you're talking about different parts of the batting order normally,

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Speaker 3: and when it comes to the power and the hitting

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Speaker 3: and slug and all that kind of good stuff, primarily

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Speaker 3: it should be coming from maybe your first six. And

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Speaker 3: I've talked about that first seven guys the American League

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Speaker 3: line up that I've always loved. And then there's gonna

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Speaker 3: be some guys in that lineup, but just aren't that guy.

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Speaker 3: They're not that capable of hitting the ball out of

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Speaker 3: the ballpark with any consistency when they try, kind of

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Speaker 3: screws up, screw them up for days or weeks at

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Speaker 3: a time. So I like the idea there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a part of the batting order that you need

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Speaker 3: to be more creative with, and there's a part of

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Speaker 3: the batting go to you just leave them alone. So

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Speaker 3: I think that's kind of I've always been there, you know,

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Speaker 3: the top part of the batting order, whether it was

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Speaker 3: the Cubs with Fowler and KB and Rizzo and Zo

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Speaker 3: in the World Series in twenty sixteen, I think Addison

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Speaker 3: Russell might hit fifth or sixth in that lineup, but

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Speaker 3: he had some serious pop, as he demonstrated. So you

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Speaker 3: leave like guys like that alone normally. But the bottom

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Speaker 3: part of the batting order, normally for me, where you're

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Speaker 3: going to mess around a little bit, and that's where

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Speaker 3: I like to be able to be creative. As a

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Speaker 3: National league manager. When the rules were National league, it

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Speaker 3: was important to be able to do those different kind

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Speaker 3: of things. I think as the rules of today is

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Speaker 3: probably somewhat less important. But final point, again, I just

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Speaker 3: can't over remphasize not everybody in your lineup is capable

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Speaker 3: of doing those things, and if they're not, you really

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Speaker 3: want to be able to utilize their abilities as much

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Speaker 3: as you possibly can and scratch out runs at the

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Speaker 3: bottom by utilizing different methods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well said.

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Speaker 1: I think that blend you're talking about is really important

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Speaker 1: because you're not always going to hit home runs.

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Speaker 2: You can't rely on that.

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Speaker 1: But in the same token, the flip side is you

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Speaker 1: can't always just single and bunt your way to a

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Speaker 1: world championship. And I'll take you back to to me

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Speaker 1: a key point in Game five, third inning, and Corbyn Carrol,

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Speaker 1: the leadoff hitter, leads off with the four with the

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Speaker 1: base hit. First pitch, base hit, and kit Tell Marte

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Speaker 1: walks on four pitches, first and second, nobody out. Nathan

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Speaker 1: Valdi has already walked three guys. I mean, it's clear

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Speaker 1: that he's just trying to still get his feet on

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Speaker 1: the ground here, first and second, nobody out, zero zero game.

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Speaker 1: The number three hitter for Arizona is Gabriel Moronino. As

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Speaker 1: soon as he was talking to the plate, I looked up,

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Speaker 1: does this guy have any sacrifice buns during the season?

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Speaker 2: The answer is no.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that I looked that up anticipating a

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Speaker 1: bunt there, to me, that's not a good sign for

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Speaker 1: the Arizona Diamondbacks. That's your number three hitter, and I

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Speaker 1: understand the importance. And I talked to Tory Leavello about

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Speaker 1: this before the game. Super important to get the first

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Speaker 1: point on the board in an elimination game.

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Speaker 2: I get that.

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Speaker 1: That's the and it turns out Moreno did this on

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Speaker 1: his own, by the way, because they did talk about

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Speaker 1: emphasizing scoring the first point of the game. Your number

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Speaker 1: three hitter, with your season on the line, bunts in

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Speaker 1: the third inning, moving up the runners. The next batter

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Speaker 1: is your cleanup hitter, Christian Walker, who doesn't move to baseball.

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Speaker 1: He strikes out Tommy Famm. Your five hitter grounds out,

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Speaker 1: opportunity gone. Give me your take on that, Joe, I

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Speaker 1: didn't like the bunt by Moreno.

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Speaker 2: He's hitting third, he didn't have a great series.

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Speaker 1: I get that, But if anything, it spoke to me

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Speaker 1: about the fact that Harry's it just doesn't have enough

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Speaker 1: thump in their lineup. If they're asking their number three

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Speaker 1: hitter to bunt in the third inning, like.

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Speaker 3: I think, you set it up pretty well. I think

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Speaker 3: the fact that they had talked about it before the

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Speaker 3: game kind of Marino kind of went rogue right there

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Speaker 3: and just try to do what he thought was the

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Speaker 3: best interest of the team. And you can't always rely

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Speaker 3: on that because when you give these really passionate speeches

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Speaker 3: before the game. These players are going to take it

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Speaker 3: to another level during the game, and I want to

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Speaker 3: just please I try to do the right thing. So

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Speaker 3: I'm always wary of that. I've had it. I've had

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Speaker 3: it with players in the past too, where they'll come

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Speaker 3: up in situation you're struggling a little bit to score runs.

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Speaker 3: Maybe things have been talked about before the game, and

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Speaker 3: then your player comes up and eat buns in a

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Speaker 3: situation you absolutely wanted them to swing the bat, and

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Speaker 3: you have to have that talk with them afterwards. So

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Speaker 3: I always think you should work with the disclaimer whenever

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Speaker 3: you have that kind of fire and brimstone speech. Listen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but listen, Marno, when you come up to the plate

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Speaker 3: right here, I'm not talking to you. I want you

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Speaker 3: to swing the bat. As an example. So, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: was surprised, but not surprised of them any sense at all.

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Speaker 3: The other part about it is, and it's always the

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Speaker 3: outcome biased. Who knows he could have been into a

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Speaker 3: double play, could have been the ground ball and short,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden there's two out. You wish

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Speaker 3: he had bun it. I mean, that's how the game works,

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Speaker 3: it's not always going to be You're not always always

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Speaker 3: going to get the desired results you wanted because the

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Speaker 3: other one had happened. I understand that. But just from

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Speaker 3: purely from a strategical perspective, yes, I want him to

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Speaker 3: swing the bat right there. Again, be careful when you

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Speaker 3: have these meetings before the game with players that really

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Speaker 3: aren't experienced. And I'll tell you, for a matter of fact,

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Speaker 3: even those that are, I've had it with like veteran

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Speaker 3: players that have come up and bun in a moment

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Speaker 3: like that that I absolutely wanted them to swing the bat.

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Speaker 3: And again, in the conversation ensued afterwards, last point, the

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen playoff against Dodgers in LA, we were like

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Speaker 3: dead in the water. We couldn't hit, we couldn't do anything.

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Speaker 3: That turned around on a bunt. That whole series turned

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Speaker 3: around on a bunt. Ben zoebers Unilatity went up there

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Speaker 3: and just popped the perfect, perfect little bunt for a

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Speaker 3: base done the third baseline, and got the floodgates open afterwards.

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Speaker 3: So there's so many different ways to look at this.

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Speaker 3: And again, I want my guys to be able to

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Speaker 3: do everything, but within a lineup. You guys hit homers.

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Speaker 3: You guys hit the ball in the gap. You guys

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Speaker 3: will be more creative with you guys run, but you

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Speaker 3: just can't do the one size fits all. And again,

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Speaker 3: be careful what you wish for and be careful how

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Speaker 3: you present it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well said, and I agree with Toy before

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Speaker 1: the game that it was important for Arizona to get

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Speaker 1: out on board first, and he did anticipate a pitcher's

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Speaker 1: duel Evaldi against Zach. Gallon's exactly what we got in

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Speaker 1: that game, at least through six innings.

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Speaker 2: So the idea was good.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, I think for a young player especially,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure players have done this with you, Joe,

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Speaker 1: and I remember Martin Maldonado did this during a game

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Speaker 1: of the Alcs, where you go up to one of

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Speaker 1: the coaches or the manager and say, hey, what about

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Speaker 1: a bunt if we're in this situation, you know, just

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Speaker 1: to get that feedback because otherwise, like you said, I thought,

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Speaker 1: it is planted in your head before the game, and

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Speaker 1: you just you're wedded too much to that thought that's

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Speaker 1: been emphasized before the game and not reacting to the

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Speaker 1: game situation.

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Speaker 2: But listen again with home runs.

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Speaker 1: You know, we all want diversity of styles again, but

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you this is now eight straight

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Speaker 1: years that if you didn't finish in the top thirteen

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Speaker 1: basically the first half in Major League Baseball and the

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Speaker 1: number of home runs hit, you are not winning the

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Speaker 1: World Series. Arizona was twenty second in home runs. The

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Speaker 1: last team that was below average home runs to win

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Speaker 1: the World Series was a twenty fifteen Kansas City Royals.

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Speaker 1: The game is so different than it was in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's too hard Joe to win games

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Speaker 1: now because basically, you know, pitching is so good, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to throw together multi hit rallies. You better have

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Speaker 1: that maybe one or two swings in the course of

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Speaker 1: a game that's going to change the scoreboard. In Texas

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Speaker 1: seemed to hit all their home runs with guys on base.

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Speaker 3: That's another key component. But you talk about the fifteen Royals,

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Speaker 3: that was like the true definition of a lockdown bullpen.

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Speaker 3: You talk about choreography. I mean, all they had to

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Speaker 3: do in the sixth inning, this guy, seventh inning, that

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Speaker 3: guy eighth inating, that guy ninetheendty that guy. So they

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Speaker 3: were playing a five inn a game to get ahead.

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Speaker 3: That's what they were just trying to do, and they did.

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Speaker 3: And again, sometimes when you have that kind of and

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Speaker 3: I was going to reference that, that kind of pitching,

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Speaker 3: you can be a little bit more aware of just

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Speaker 3: trying to play for a point now and then, or

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Speaker 3: just trying to grab that lead because they're not hitting

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Speaker 3: home runs against. These guys are six seven to eight

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Speaker 3: to nineth INNY pitchers, So it really does a lot

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Speaker 3: of that depends. I think the small ball stuff does

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Speaker 3: depend on how good you're pitching and how good your

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Speaker 3: defense is. Listen, I always want to know who's undemound

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Speaker 3: for them, who's undemound for us. I want to know

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Speaker 3: what the state of my team is right now. I

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Speaker 3: just know the psychological where they at right now, just mentally,

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Speaker 3: how they how they acting, how they what kind of

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Speaker 3: energy do we have when we come to the ballpark.

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Speaker 3: All this stuff that nobody will ever know about is

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Speaker 3: so vital regarding like when you're on a winning streak,

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Speaker 3: we're on a losing streak, how do you guys come

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Speaker 3: out of this thing. I'm like so in touch with

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Speaker 3: the feel of the group in the clubhouse and how

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Speaker 3: that determines the outcome of the game tonight and for

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Speaker 3: the next maybe five or six days, the next week,

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Speaker 3: So all these things have to be considered there and

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Speaker 3: nobody's ever know unless you're in that clubhouse. You're talking

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Speaker 3: to the players and you have these kind of conversations.

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Speaker 3: But all these things are important. I want it all,

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Speaker 3: like I said, I want it all. I want I

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Speaker 3: want great pitching, I want great bullpen. And why wouldn't you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when you get a great balanced team, there's

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Speaker 3: so many different ways you could win a ballgame, and eventually, eventually, yes,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna have to have to meet great pitching. I

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Speaker 3: think a superior bullpen, and I want an offense that

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Speaker 3: does it all. And yeah, I want to catch the baseball.

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Speaker 3: So I mean at the end of the year kind

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Speaker 3: of like that's what the event what the Texas Rangers did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, and we can't forget too. That team

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Speaker 1: was in first place for most of the season. They

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Speaker 1: had won stretch in August. Everybody, you know this, everything

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Speaker 1: you had, all your winning teams, you go through a

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Speaker 1: funk at some point in the season.

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Speaker 2: Theirs was a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: I think they went ten to twenty at some point

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Speaker 1: lose the last day of the season to fall into

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Speaker 1: a fifth seed rather than a division championship. But that,

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Speaker 1: for the most part was a first place team for

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Speaker 1: three quarters of the season. That's a good baseball team.

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Speaker 1: And they did kind of have it all, Joe. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they did have speed. That's some guys who can run.

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Speaker 1: They weren't necessarily a base stealing team. Their defense was exceptional.

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Speaker 1: I think you saw that throughout the World Series. And

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Speaker 1: anytime you got Bruce Boci, you know, whatever their bullpen is,

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Speaker 1: they're going to max out.

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Speaker 2: On their efficiency, and they certainly did that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't like it when everybody after a

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Speaker 1: World Series.

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Speaker 2: Says, hey, this is the way you have to win

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Speaker 2: a World Series.

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Speaker 1: Like back in old one the Diamondback said Shilling and Johnson,

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Speaker 1: it was like, oh, you have to get two big starters.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, it helps, but like you said, better be

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Speaker 1: good across the board to win games in multiple ways.

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Speaker 1: Pitching in defense obviously the foundation uh diverse offense.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but I don't think there's one path to win

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Speaker 2: the World Series.

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Speaker 3: And the last point, I mean, you know, we haven't

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Speaker 3: even talked about personalities and makeup and the group as

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Speaker 3: a whole, and how do they interact and all these

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Speaker 3: these these little things that are actually very huge things

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Speaker 3: that you have to nurture and cultivate during the course

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Speaker 3: of the year, starting in spring training. I still love

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Speaker 3: when a GM or a group really pays attention to

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Speaker 3: makeup and who this guy is and an example, and

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Speaker 3: I heard your interview with Tommy fam a couple of

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Speaker 3: days ago. You know why Tommy Fam was so influential

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Speaker 3: in this team getting as far as they did. And

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Speaker 3: this is a guy that was kind of a role

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Speaker 3: player for the for the Mets and then eventually became

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Speaker 3: a role player somewhat for the Diamondbacks, and it began

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Speaker 3: with the Cardinals after about seven years in the minor leagues.

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Speaker 3: But this guy was the most influential guy within the

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Speaker 3: group because of makeup and how he is and how

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Speaker 3: he acted in the clubhouse and the workout that he

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Speaker 3: demonstrate it and all this other stuff answerary stuff that's

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Speaker 3: hard to evaluate, but it's true. So, uh, I know,

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Speaker 3: I know Chris Young, and I know see why I

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Speaker 3: had to pay attention that I know boaches from that ILK. Also, uh,

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Speaker 3: I listen overriting talent. Yes, I want it. I want

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Speaker 3: overwriting talent. But also you need the glue guys. We

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Speaker 3: talked about the glue guys from the beginning of the year,

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Speaker 3: and that's it has to have a little bit of

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Speaker 3: all of that stuff in order to survive or or

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Speaker 3: to be successful play the last game of the year

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Speaker 3: and win it. I love makeup guys, man, I love

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Speaker 3: guys that could count on every day. I love guys

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Speaker 3: that are accountable, that you could talk with them and

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Speaker 3: you're gonna get you need it straight up and you

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Speaker 3: can be straight up with them. That's a big part

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Speaker 3: of having a winning team too. Joe.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought that up, because after this break,

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Speaker 1: I definitely want to talk about that.

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Speaker 2: It's a huge advantage in this.

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Speaker 1: World series, make up, experience, character, whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: call it. The Diamondbacks might have been too young and

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Speaker 1: believe they're not too fragile to win this world series.

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Speaker 2: I'll explain that right after.

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Speaker 1: This makeup Joe, you know it when you see it,

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Speaker 1: and to me, Chris Young and you nail this absolutely

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Speaker 1: put a premium on makeup. When it came to acquisition

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Speaker 1: of talent for that Texas Rangers team. Of course, you

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Speaker 1: want talent begins to it. You need guys who can

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Speaker 1: play right.

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Speaker 2: You don't have. You're not gonna win a World Series

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Speaker 2: with a bunch of boy scouts on your team. Got

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Speaker 2: to play. But you think about signing Bruce Boccie.

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Speaker 1: As he told Bruce Bocci, who was on his recliner

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Speaker 1: in Nashville when he called him, I don't want you

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Speaker 1: to manage this team because I'd loved playing for you

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Speaker 1: back with the Padres.

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Speaker 2: I want you because you can establish a winning culture.

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Speaker 1: This team had lost sixth straight losing seasons, had a

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Speaker 1: terrible record in one run games last year. I believe

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Speaker 1: there were fifteen and thirty five. They didn't not know

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Speaker 1: how to win. Bruce Boch knows how to get that done.

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Speaker 1: He goes and gets Mike Maddox has been a pitching

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Speaker 1: coach for forty two years. He sits down for a

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Speaker 1: breakfast with Will Vennible, his Princeton teammate, and says, hey,

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Speaker 1: how about Nathan Evaldi. Venable was a coach with the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox, and Venible says, this guy's a big time winner,

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Speaker 1: He's a leader. And Chris Young says, I need a

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Speaker 1: leader for my pitching staff. I've got two pillars in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the infield and Seeger and Simeon. Everybody

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Speaker 1: follows the way they play. I need a guy like

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Speaker 1: that in my rotation. That was Nathan Evaldi. Everywhere you

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Speaker 1: look around. Chris Young. He brought in Dayton Moore and

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Speaker 1: his old school wisdom. Kansas City Royals. You talked about

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Speaker 1: the fifteen Royals. The way he built that team. He

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Speaker 1: brought back a lot of former players, Nick Hunley, Michael Young,

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys to have input in the way

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Speaker 1: they ran this team. Every decision he made, I can

402
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Speaker 1: tell you he looked into and actually did the research

403
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Speaker 1: on the background of these players, so he had the

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Speaker 1: right group of guys. That Texas team was such a

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Speaker 1: tough minded team. I saw that. Now I'll flip it

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Speaker 1: to Arizona.

407
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Speaker 2: Your team. Joe started four guys in the World Series

408
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Speaker 2: twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Younger, This Arizona team the first team since your sixteen

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Speaker 1: Cubs to do that. And I did talk to Zach

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Speaker 1: Gallon about this, and you're right, Joe, this Arizona team

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Speaker 1: didn't know the kind of pressure that they were in.

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Speaker 1: Kind of that youthful naivete if you will. They just

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Speaker 1: enjoyed the ride. Take a game by game.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: But I saw a team being down with that team

417
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Speaker 1: in the clubhouse every day here in the World Series,

418
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Speaker 1: that didn't have that sort of experience and tough mindedness

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Speaker 1: to pull them through spots the way that Texas did.

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Speaker 1: An example for you when Christian Walker was thrown out

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Speaker 1: at the plate running through the stop sign there in

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Speaker 1: Game three, even Tory Lavello said his team let down.

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Speaker 2: The air came out of the balloon. I saw it

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Speaker 2: in that dugout there.

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Speaker 1: There was no energy, as Tori said, for three or

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Speaker 1: four innings when they didn't push runs across in game.

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Speaker 1: Early in the game, I felt the same thing. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the quietest dugouts I've ever seen. They respond

429
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Speaker 1: to when things go well, but the minute something doesn't

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Speaker 1: go well, they kind of sit back. There's no one

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Speaker 1: in that club in that dugout who's rallying the troops.

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Speaker 1: I suckatel Marte move runners with a productive out in

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Speaker 1: that game, a zero zero game. He didn't come back

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Speaker 1: to the dugout on the home plate side. He came

435
00:20:30,998 --> 00:20:33,038
Speaker 1: back at the far end of the dugout and there

436
00:20:33,038 --> 00:20:36,198
Speaker 1: were very few guys you got up and said, hey,

437
00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:39,118
Speaker 1: great job, this is what wins games.

438
00:20:39,398 --> 00:20:40,838
Speaker 2: I was shocked by the reaction.

439
00:20:41,598 --> 00:20:44,398
Speaker 1: Really, the only one who's active in that dugout during

440
00:20:44,398 --> 00:20:48,198
Speaker 1: the game is the manager, Tory Lavello. I mentioned earlier, Joe,

441
00:20:48,198 --> 00:20:52,198
Speaker 1: he has more conversations with players than anybody I've seen,

442
00:20:53,198 --> 00:20:55,918
Speaker 1: but I think he needs to You mentioned Tommy fam

443
00:20:56,358 --> 00:20:58,638
Speaker 1: He's a DH he's getting ready for a bats. He

444
00:20:58,678 --> 00:21:02,718
Speaker 1: does provide spark and energy, and you know, he's so

445
00:21:02,918 --> 00:21:04,518
Speaker 1: determined and he worked so hard.

446
00:21:04,558 --> 00:21:05,918
Speaker 2: Those are all great qualities.

447
00:21:05,918 --> 00:21:08,598
Speaker 1: But in terms of a glue guy bringing this team together,

448
00:21:08,758 --> 00:21:10,038
Speaker 1: I didn't see one there, Joe.

449
00:21:10,078 --> 00:21:10,878
Speaker 2: I really didn't.

450
00:21:11,358 --> 00:21:13,958
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe I'm reading too much into body

451
00:21:14,038 --> 00:21:16,438
Speaker 1: language in the course of a game, but I do

452
00:21:16,518 --> 00:21:20,558
Speaker 1: think this team needs someone like that going forward because

453
00:21:20,558 --> 00:21:23,878
Speaker 1: I love the talent pace. They need, you know, a

454
00:21:24,078 --> 00:21:27,518
Speaker 1: Justin Turner, they need a Marcus Simeon, they need a

455
00:21:27,558 --> 00:21:30,638
Speaker 1: Dexter Fowler. And if I'm Mike Hayes and the GM,

456
00:21:31,278 --> 00:21:33,518
Speaker 1: I'm looking at that putting this team together over the

457
00:21:33,518 --> 00:21:34,198
Speaker 1: course of the winter.

458
00:21:35,078 --> 00:21:38,518
Speaker 3: That's a well explained I cannot agree with you more.

459
00:21:38,678 --> 00:21:41,038
Speaker 3: And when you just said that experience does matter. That's

460
00:21:41,198 --> 00:21:43,598
Speaker 3: kind of what you were talking about there, and it does.

461
00:21:43,678 --> 00:21:46,758
Speaker 3: It does. I know from my personal perspective, the fact

462
00:21:46,758 --> 00:21:49,638
Speaker 3: that I you mentioned became manager of the Rays, all

463
00:21:49,678 --> 00:21:53,238
Speaker 3: the experiences I had before that absolutely mattered. From the

464
00:21:53,358 --> 00:21:56,438
Speaker 3: time I drove my car all over Arizona as a

465
00:21:56,478 --> 00:22:01,718
Speaker 3: scout in New Mexico and Kansas and Nebraska and Cloriado, etcetera,

466
00:22:01,838 --> 00:22:03,678
Speaker 3: all the way up to the point where I get

467
00:22:03,718 --> 00:22:05,278
Speaker 3: in a dug out for the first time as a

468
00:22:05,318 --> 00:22:07,838
Speaker 3: bench coach for Marcel Then what was that ninety five

469
00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:10,278
Speaker 3: ninety six, and then you go all the way through that,

470
00:22:10,358 --> 00:22:13,718
Speaker 3: you win a World Series as a bench coach, cry

471
00:22:13,758 --> 00:22:16,838
Speaker 3: your eyes out, and then you eventually you get opportunities

472
00:22:16,878 --> 00:22:20,438
Speaker 3: to interview for jobs, don't get them, but you grow

473
00:22:20,478 --> 00:22:23,238
Speaker 3: from that moments, those moments, and then finally I'm in

474
00:22:23,278 --> 00:22:25,358
Speaker 3: a parking lot one day and two thousand and five,

475
00:22:25,358 --> 00:22:27,998
Speaker 3: and Andrew Freeman calls me up and asks if I'd

476
00:22:27,998 --> 00:22:30,798
Speaker 3: like to be the fourth manager of the Tampa Bay

477
00:22:30,878 --> 00:22:34,158
Speaker 3: Devil Rays. At that time, all these experiences matter, man,

478
00:22:34,158 --> 00:22:37,478
Speaker 3: And then you go out there and listen, Yeah, you're nervous.

479
00:22:38,278 --> 00:22:39,678
Speaker 3: I don't want to use the word scare, But you're

480
00:22:39,678 --> 00:22:42,518
Speaker 3: nervous about everything. There's an anxiety component to it, but

481
00:22:42,558 --> 00:22:44,838
Speaker 3: you fight through it and eventually you get to the

482
00:22:44,878 --> 00:22:47,758
Speaker 3: other side, and when you face difficult moments, you're able

483
00:22:47,798 --> 00:22:50,278
Speaker 3: to deal with them much better than if you did

484
00:22:50,278 --> 00:22:52,798
Speaker 3: not have all those experiences. At least I believe that.

485
00:22:53,158 --> 00:22:56,398
Speaker 3: I know from a personal experience. So guys like this

486
00:22:56,518 --> 00:22:59,598
Speaker 3: that just get there so quickly, they need They need

487
00:22:59,598 --> 00:23:01,798
Speaker 3: more than just your manager in the corner yelling the

488
00:23:01,838 --> 00:23:05,998
Speaker 3: whole game. They do need players within that group. I

489
00:23:05,998 --> 00:23:09,278
Speaker 3: know Longa was there too, but I know with the

490
00:23:09,358 --> 00:23:11,998
Speaker 3: with the Cubs, you're talking about that group, whether it

491
00:23:12,038 --> 00:23:14,878
Speaker 3: was David Ross, David Ross was down on the top

492
00:23:14,878 --> 00:23:17,958
Speaker 3: step of a dugout when Addison might have screwed up

493
00:23:17,998 --> 00:23:19,518
Speaker 3: on the field. I remember it. I'm saying him because

494
00:23:19,518 --> 00:23:21,758
Speaker 3: I saw it. He's walking off the field. Dave would

495
00:23:21,758 --> 00:23:23,918
Speaker 3: go and greet him. Then I didn't have to say

496
00:23:23,918 --> 00:23:26,638
Speaker 3: anything as he walked off the field, and that Dave

497
00:23:26,678 --> 00:23:28,478
Speaker 3: would come back and say, listen, brother, thank you for

498
00:23:28,518 --> 00:23:31,038
Speaker 3: doing that. However, just be careful, don't go too hard,

499
00:23:31,318 --> 00:23:34,238
Speaker 3: because David had a tendency to do that sometimes. But

500
00:23:34,878 --> 00:23:37,678
Speaker 3: I had that, I had him at Montero and Leicester

501
00:23:37,838 --> 00:23:40,838
Speaker 3: had all these different guys dexter within the group. They

502
00:23:40,838 --> 00:23:43,478
Speaker 3: were able to handle exactly what you're talking about. They

503
00:23:43,478 --> 00:23:46,318
Speaker 3: had been there before. They were always calm in the moment.

504
00:23:46,598 --> 00:23:48,638
Speaker 3: We could smile, we could laugh in a tough moment,

505
00:23:49,398 --> 00:23:52,598
Speaker 3: We could prep in a way that we weren't overly

506
00:23:52,718 --> 00:23:55,758
Speaker 3: concerned because we felt like we're gonna win. We knew

507
00:23:55,758 --> 00:23:59,038
Speaker 3: we were gonna win. That builds up over time. He

508
00:23:59,278 --> 00:24:02,598
Speaker 3: just doesn't happen overnight. So you talked about make up.

509
00:24:03,078 --> 00:24:05,318
Speaker 3: I love the word fear the business. I think the

510
00:24:05,358 --> 00:24:08,838
Speaker 3: experience matters. And the last point you said something about

511
00:24:09,438 --> 00:24:11,798
Speaker 3: things weren't going well, that they were just sitting on

512
00:24:11,838 --> 00:24:14,838
Speaker 3: their hands. One of the big topics for me prior

513
00:24:14,838 --> 00:24:18,558
Speaker 3: to every playoff series was remember, boys, things are not

514
00:24:18,598 --> 00:24:21,398
Speaker 3: going to go well all the time. How we handle

515
00:24:21,478 --> 00:24:23,998
Speaker 3: that moment's going to make the difference. And I'm really

516
00:24:24,038 --> 00:24:26,078
Speaker 3: a big believer in that, so I wanted that's a

517
00:24:26,078 --> 00:24:30,278
Speaker 3: big part of my pre series talk with the boys

518
00:24:31,038 --> 00:24:34,118
Speaker 3: playoff wise. I want them to understand that, not like

519
00:24:34,158 --> 00:24:36,278
Speaker 3: I'm the voice of doom, but just to understand it.

520
00:24:36,278 --> 00:24:38,678
Speaker 3: It's not going to be perfect all the time. And

521
00:24:39,198 --> 00:24:42,198
Speaker 3: how we react to these non perfect situations or moments

522
00:24:42,238 --> 00:24:44,558
Speaker 3: is going to be the difference speaker. So all those

523
00:24:44,558 --> 00:24:46,238
Speaker 3: things are summed up with what you just talked about.

524
00:24:46,558 --> 00:24:48,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it reminded me, Joe, when you talked about

525
00:24:49,038 --> 00:24:51,318
Speaker 1: playing the Yankees when you were with the Angels and

526
00:24:51,398 --> 00:24:54,278
Speaker 1: you saw that look on their faces right where like, wow,

527
00:24:54,398 --> 00:24:57,438
Speaker 1: we got them right. That's kind of the look I

528
00:24:57,478 --> 00:24:59,758
Speaker 1: saw after the Walker play where he gets thrown out

529
00:24:59,758 --> 00:25:03,278
Speaker 1: at the plate and listen, I talked with Christian about

530
00:25:03,278 --> 00:25:06,478
Speaker 1: that thought. It was a difficult read and his mistake

531
00:25:07,318 --> 00:25:11,398
Speaker 1: was having a late read or late break because it

532
00:25:11,438 --> 00:25:15,158
Speaker 1: was a difficult read. Instead of owning the late break,

533
00:25:15,278 --> 00:25:17,478
Speaker 1: he tried to make up for it. He tried too

534
00:25:17,558 --> 00:25:20,798
Speaker 1: hard and just went all out thinking he's going to score.

535
00:25:20,838 --> 00:25:23,878
Speaker 1: The run comes around the bag. Tony Paris Cheek of

536
00:25:23,878 --> 00:25:26,278
Speaker 1: the third base coach. I love third base coaches that

537
00:25:26,318 --> 00:25:28,358
Speaker 1: bring the guy around the bag, Joe. I don't like

538
00:25:28,438 --> 00:25:30,638
Speaker 1: guys who throw their hands up before they get to

539
00:25:30,678 --> 00:25:32,958
Speaker 1: the bag, before the ball is even handled cleanly.

540
00:25:33,598 --> 00:25:34,838
Speaker 2: I think he did the right thing.

541
00:25:34,878 --> 00:25:36,958
Speaker 1: He also got down the line, which I'd love from

542
00:25:36,958 --> 00:25:39,998
Speaker 1: a third base coach. You know, give yourself another beat

543
00:25:40,038 --> 00:25:41,998
Speaker 1: there to let the play come out and then throw

544
00:25:42,038 --> 00:25:45,398
Speaker 1: the stop sign up. In this case, though Walker never

545
00:25:45,478 --> 00:25:48,158
Speaker 1: looked up. You know, once he his head's down to

546
00:25:48,158 --> 00:25:50,798
Speaker 1: touch the bag, he's got to pick up the coach

547
00:25:50,838 --> 00:25:54,118
Speaker 1: at that point because then he would see the stop sign,

548
00:25:54,198 --> 00:25:56,038
Speaker 1: would have plenty of time to get back to the bag,

549
00:25:56,078 --> 00:25:58,278
Speaker 1: even if he came far around third base because the

550
00:25:58,278 --> 00:26:01,958
Speaker 1: throw's going home. That's just a mechanical a mistake of

551
00:26:01,998 --> 00:26:05,638
Speaker 1: mechanics there on Walker's part. But it really began with

552
00:26:05,718 --> 00:26:08,238
Speaker 1: this decision by Walker that I got a late read.

553
00:26:08,398 --> 00:26:10,078
Speaker 1: Now I have to make up for it to try

554
00:26:10,118 --> 00:26:12,518
Speaker 1: to score it. But I'm telling you you reminded me

555
00:26:12,878 --> 00:26:16,398
Speaker 1: of that with a face on the Yankees after that mistake.

556
00:26:16,478 --> 00:26:18,918
Speaker 1: First out that is thrown out at the plate, and

557
00:26:18,958 --> 00:26:21,318
Speaker 1: it was a great throw by Garcia, by the way,

558
00:26:22,438 --> 00:26:25,598
Speaker 1: I saw that same deflation in Arizona and Tory Lavello,

559
00:26:25,678 --> 00:26:28,678
Speaker 1: the manager noticed it. He noticed that that it lasted

560
00:26:28,718 --> 00:26:31,438
Speaker 1: for three or four innings in that game that they

561
00:26:31,518 --> 00:26:33,518
Speaker 1: just didn't recover. That's what I mean when I talk

562
00:26:33,558 --> 00:26:36,398
Speaker 1: about them being fragile. It's not a makeup flaw. It's

563
00:26:36,438 --> 00:26:39,998
Speaker 1: just a younger team that when things don't go right

564
00:26:40,118 --> 00:26:42,878
Speaker 1: early in the game. It takes them a while to

565
00:26:42,878 --> 00:26:45,038
Speaker 1: get their equilibrium again. And I think you saw that

566
00:26:45,198 --> 00:26:48,758
Speaker 1: again in Game four, the blowout game where things just

567
00:26:48,798 --> 00:26:49,558
Speaker 1: got out of hand.

568
00:26:49,598 --> 00:26:51,078
Speaker 2: You saw a.

569
00:26:51,118 --> 00:26:55,918
Speaker 1: Two strike, two out, wild pitch. It bounced off Marino

570
00:26:56,038 --> 00:26:58,438
Speaker 1: the heel of the glove. He's a little bit unlucky there, Joe.

571
00:26:58,438 --> 00:27:00,358
Speaker 1: I thought he was in position to block. The ball,

572
00:27:00,718 --> 00:27:02,998
Speaker 1: hits the heel of glove goes off to the side.

573
00:27:03,558 --> 00:27:06,758
Speaker 1: Those daggers. I always hated that. You know, the two out,

574
00:27:06,838 --> 00:27:09,758
Speaker 1: two strike wild pitch that puts a run in. You

575
00:27:09,798 --> 00:27:12,038
Speaker 1: need to shut the game down right there, Arizona didn't.

576
00:27:12,158 --> 00:27:15,518
Speaker 1: Five runs follow Then the next inning, Walker kind of

577
00:27:15,558 --> 00:27:17,918
Speaker 1: fumbles a groundball that would have been the second out,

578
00:27:18,278 --> 00:27:21,118
Speaker 1: and five runs follow after that. That's what I'm talking

579
00:27:21,118 --> 00:27:24,438
Speaker 1: about when I talk about the fragility of the Diamondbacks.

580
00:27:24,478 --> 00:27:27,998
Speaker 1: That just, you know, to adjust to something negative happening

581
00:27:28,038 --> 00:27:30,598
Speaker 1: early in the game. It took him a while, if

582
00:27:30,678 --> 00:27:33,038
Speaker 1: at all, to get to recover from those things.

583
00:27:33,358 --> 00:27:35,598
Speaker 3: That's right. You got to turn the page more quickly

584
00:27:35,638 --> 00:27:38,038
Speaker 3: than that. And just regarding the base running play, one

585
00:27:38,038 --> 00:27:41,758
Speaker 3: of my main edicts when I do the tour of

586
00:27:41,758 --> 00:27:44,798
Speaker 3: the bases as a coach, and we're talking about actually

587
00:27:44,838 --> 00:27:48,158
Speaker 3: in this situation would be second to home. He who

588
00:27:48,198 --> 00:27:51,238
Speaker 3: hesitates stops. That's the one thing I always wanted the

589
00:27:51,678 --> 00:27:53,958
Speaker 3: runners to know that he who hesitates stops. In other words,

590
00:27:53,958 --> 00:27:56,438
Speaker 3: if you don't get that good break, that natural movement,

591
00:27:56,478 --> 00:27:59,518
Speaker 3: you're just balls hit. I flow right into it. I'm going,

592
00:27:59,558 --> 00:28:01,998
Speaker 3: I'm going. But if you hesitate at all, that's a

593
00:28:01,998 --> 00:28:04,118
Speaker 3: situation where you really got to be aware of not

594
00:28:04,198 --> 00:28:06,838
Speaker 3: trying to get that extra base. And then you talked

595
00:28:06,878 --> 00:28:08,918
Speaker 3: about zero outs. There was no outs. I mean, you

596
00:28:08,918 --> 00:28:10,478
Speaker 3: don't want to make the first out at home play.

597
00:28:10,518 --> 00:28:12,358
Speaker 3: There's no way you want to make the first out

598
00:28:12,398 --> 00:28:14,838
Speaker 3: at home play. And I also believe the lateral movement

599
00:28:14,878 --> 00:28:18,958
Speaker 3: by Garcia I think may have played into some of

600
00:28:18,998 --> 00:28:20,958
Speaker 3: the decision making. Like you said, Tony did a great

601
00:28:20,998 --> 00:28:23,798
Speaker 3: job at third base. I agree, he did everything textbook.

602
00:28:23,838 --> 00:28:25,798
Speaker 3: And yes, the runner did not pick him up after

603
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:29,798
Speaker 3: he hit the bag. Again, all those things were obvious.

604
00:28:30,038 --> 00:28:32,438
Speaker 3: So two things though, to me, you just don't go.

605
00:28:32,558 --> 00:28:35,678
Speaker 3: I hesitated, So I stopped at third base unless I

606
00:28:35,758 --> 00:28:38,758
Speaker 3: really get away. Because the ball's been booted and no outs,

607
00:28:38,838 --> 00:28:40,438
Speaker 3: you just cannot make that first out at.

608
00:28:40,398 --> 00:28:43,518
Speaker 1: Home play, and we need to talk about the manager.

609
00:28:43,598 --> 00:28:46,118
Speaker 1: Bruce boci by the way, By the way, Tory Levello,

610
00:28:46,158 --> 00:28:48,118
Speaker 1: I thought did a great job. I really did. Think

611
00:28:48,158 --> 00:28:50,358
Speaker 1: he did everything to get this team that won only

612
00:28:50,758 --> 00:28:54,198
Speaker 1: what eighty four games in the regular season into Game

613
00:28:54,238 --> 00:28:57,358
Speaker 1: five of a World Series. Just an amazing job. His energy,

614
00:28:58,238 --> 00:29:02,158
Speaker 1: his attention to detail just so impressive. I think he

615
00:29:02,278 --> 00:29:04,798
Speaker 1: absolutely got the most that he could out of that team.

616
00:29:04,798 --> 00:29:07,158
Speaker 1: And that's to me, that's job one of a manager,

617
00:29:07,358 --> 00:29:09,158
Speaker 1: you know, and maybe you only have an eighty five

618
00:29:09,238 --> 00:29:11,118
Speaker 1: win team or an eighty four win team, but make

619
00:29:11,118 --> 00:29:11,878
Speaker 1: sure you get there.

620
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:13,438
Speaker 2: I think he did that.

621
00:29:13,518 --> 00:29:15,918
Speaker 1: But on the other side, Bruce Bocci, I mean, I

622
00:29:15,958 --> 00:29:18,118
Speaker 1: know you've gone up against him, Joe. You're actually the

623
00:29:18,158 --> 00:29:22,318
Speaker 1: only manager to beat Bruce Bochi in a postseason series

624
00:29:22,558 --> 00:29:27,358
Speaker 1: in his last fifteen postseason series. That is just remarkable

625
00:29:27,638 --> 00:29:33,318
Speaker 1: that this guy keeps winning postseason series. Well, I'll give

626
00:29:33,358 --> 00:29:35,358
Speaker 1: you my take on Bruce, but I want your take

627
00:29:35,398 --> 00:29:38,078
Speaker 1: because you've gone up against him, not just in the

628
00:29:38,078 --> 00:29:41,358
Speaker 1: postseason obviously, but in the regular season. What is it

629
00:29:41,518 --> 00:29:44,598
Speaker 1: about Bruce Bochie that makes him such a winner?

630
00:29:44,918 --> 00:29:47,518
Speaker 3: He's he's not afraid. I mean, that's you know, there's

631
00:29:47,558 --> 00:29:49,718
Speaker 3: a fearlessness factory. He has a method, you know, he

632
00:29:49,758 --> 00:29:51,998
Speaker 3: has a game plan. He has a schematic about him,

633
00:29:51,998 --> 00:29:54,118
Speaker 3: and that is he's going to match up the bullpen.

634
00:29:54,238 --> 00:29:56,918
Speaker 3: That's the primary thing that he does so well. And

635
00:29:56,998 --> 00:29:59,558
Speaker 3: I think the teams that he's had, they've done a

636
00:29:59,638 --> 00:30:01,438
Speaker 3: nice job of giving him the ying and the yang

637
00:30:01,478 --> 00:30:04,838
Speaker 3: out there lefties and rightings people that could back and forth.

638
00:30:05,358 --> 00:30:06,838
Speaker 3: You have to stay ahead of that. You have to

639
00:30:06,838 --> 00:30:08,438
Speaker 3: stay ahead of that. And we've talked about this and

640
00:30:08,478 --> 00:30:10,558
Speaker 3: you brought it up, but part of that is having

641
00:30:11,118 --> 00:30:13,638
Speaker 3: a strong enough or deep enough bench that you can

642
00:30:13,878 --> 00:30:18,478
Speaker 3: answer the movement with the pitcher with another pinchit or

643
00:30:18,478 --> 00:30:22,398
Speaker 3: if it's necessary to just prevent him from always getting

644
00:30:22,438 --> 00:30:24,318
Speaker 3: what he wants. It really comes down to that. Really,

645
00:30:24,798 --> 00:30:28,038
Speaker 3: you're really trying to prevent that, and of course they're

646
00:30:28,078 --> 00:30:30,438
Speaker 3: trying to prevent the same thing from the other side

647
00:30:30,478 --> 00:30:33,238
Speaker 3: looking at you. So to me, it was always about

648
00:30:33,278 --> 00:30:36,598
Speaker 3: with him the bullpen. It's not you know, lineup construction.

649
00:30:36,678 --> 00:30:39,678
Speaker 3: He was very normal. I mean, like he'll stack lefties

650
00:30:39,718 --> 00:30:41,878
Speaker 3: like he did there. He had a seeker and then

651
00:30:42,358 --> 00:30:43,958
Speaker 3: part of them he had him stacked. He had him

652
00:30:43,998 --> 00:30:47,398
Speaker 3: Stack used to stack belt with the Crawford at times. Whatever,

653
00:30:47,678 --> 00:30:50,358
Speaker 3: he was never worried about stacking if he has pretty

654
00:30:50,638 --> 00:30:54,078
Speaker 3: it was pretty consistent about maintaining the same kind of

655
00:30:54,078 --> 00:30:56,638
Speaker 3: a lineup, and his players always know what to expect

656
00:30:56,678 --> 00:30:59,598
Speaker 3: and he always showed confidence in them. And I think

657
00:30:59,638 --> 00:31:03,798
Speaker 3: that was because he was I kept the front office

658
00:31:03,918 --> 00:31:05,718
Speaker 3: at Bay. He didn't have to worry about so much

659
00:31:05,718 --> 00:31:08,478
Speaker 3: influence because people are not going to like that. They're

660
00:31:08,518 --> 00:31:10,838
Speaker 3: not going to like when you set it up where

661
00:31:10,878 --> 00:31:13,478
Speaker 3: there's three lefties. I had three lefties and I had Crawford,

662
00:31:13,918 --> 00:31:17,158
Speaker 3: Iwamura and Paenam for a time with the Rays, and

663
00:31:17,558 --> 00:31:19,598
Speaker 3: of course I got flack for that, but I thought

664
00:31:19,638 --> 00:31:20,958
Speaker 3: it was the right way to set it up in

665
00:31:20,998 --> 00:31:23,638
Speaker 3: the beginning, and it actually did pay off. So I

666
00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:26,598
Speaker 3: think all these things. Boach is kind of able to

667
00:31:26,598 --> 00:31:29,878
Speaker 3: make unilateral decisions. He's very very good at the bullpen.

668
00:31:29,998 --> 00:31:32,918
Speaker 3: You have to try to stay in advance of that

669
00:31:33,038 --> 00:31:35,798
Speaker 3: and get what you're looking for. I mean, you know

670
00:31:35,878 --> 00:31:38,358
Speaker 3: he's going to do this, So can I combat that?

671
00:31:38,558 --> 00:31:40,398
Speaker 3: Or am I better off standing with where I'm at

672
00:31:40,958 --> 00:31:43,438
Speaker 3: regarding my hitter coming up to the plate right now?

673
00:31:44,238 --> 00:31:48,078
Speaker 3: That's where I see the strength. It's his calmness, the

674
00:31:48,118 --> 00:31:50,758
Speaker 3: fact that he is a combination of John Wayne and

675
00:31:51,078 --> 00:31:54,838
Speaker 3: who else, Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Terminator or something like that.

676
00:31:54,878 --> 00:31:57,438
Speaker 3: I mean, he just he's got this president's presence about

677
00:31:57,518 --> 00:32:00,318
Speaker 3: him that the players really feed off. If he's straightforward,

678
00:32:00,758 --> 00:32:03,638
Speaker 3: he's funny, he's a good dude. But I think his

679
00:32:03,718 --> 00:32:07,278
Speaker 3: main intre is in game bullpen management, and you have

680
00:32:07,318 --> 00:32:08,198
Speaker 3: to stay with them on that.

681
00:32:08,638 --> 00:32:10,078
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've talked about this.

682
00:32:10,198 --> 00:32:12,318
Speaker 1: I love the line from Tory Leavello that you know,

683
00:32:12,398 --> 00:32:15,278
Speaker 1: the rest of us talking about managers, you know, have

684
00:32:15,318 --> 00:32:19,358
Speaker 1: access to all these binders and tablets, and you know

685
00:32:19,958 --> 00:32:23,438
Speaker 1: you're looking to dugout. It's like the New York Public Library.

686
00:32:23,438 --> 00:32:26,278
Speaker 1: There's so much literature and information in there. And he said,

687
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:29,038
Speaker 1: Bruce Bochie is managing off the scoreboard, and if you

688
00:32:29,038 --> 00:32:30,318
Speaker 1: watch him in the game, it's true.

689
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:33,438
Speaker 2: I mean he's got very little accept what's between his ears.

690
00:32:34,038 --> 00:32:36,718
Speaker 1: And you know there's an old line in baseball, the

691
00:32:36,718 --> 00:32:39,558
Speaker 1: scoreboard will tell you everything you need to know about

692
00:32:39,598 --> 00:32:42,078
Speaker 1: how to play the game. Bruce Bochi, let me throw

693
00:32:42,158 --> 00:32:44,678
Speaker 1: some numbers at you. Of course, that's his fourth World

694
00:32:44,718 --> 00:32:48,118
Speaker 1: Series championship. He's only the sixth manager with four World

695
00:32:48,198 --> 00:32:50,078
Speaker 1: Series title. He's the first to do it with a

696
00:32:50,158 --> 00:32:54,158
Speaker 1: second team. When he gets into these games clinching situations,

697
00:32:54,518 --> 00:32:57,758
Speaker 1: chance to close out a series, his record is seventeen

698
00:32:57,838 --> 00:33:01,478
Speaker 1: and five. It's amazing. If he's in a one run game,

699
00:33:01,838 --> 00:33:04,878
Speaker 1: he's going to win that game. His one run game

700
00:33:05,118 --> 00:33:09,278
Speaker 1: is now twenty and ten. And if it's a Bullpenn game,

701
00:33:09,358 --> 00:33:12,678
Speaker 1: his relievers are twenty one and eleven. These are all

702
00:33:12,798 --> 00:33:15,838
Speaker 1: numbers in the postseason, folks, where basically it is a

703
00:33:15,838 --> 00:33:18,278
Speaker 1: coin flip. It's hard to win these games. If you're

704
00:33:18,278 --> 00:33:20,638
Speaker 1: in the postseason. Have a five hundred record as a manager,

705
00:33:20,638 --> 00:33:24,758
Speaker 1: that's pretty darn good. And he's winning about sixty six

706
00:33:24,798 --> 00:33:26,838
Speaker 1: percent of the time, almost two thirds of the game.

707
00:33:27,518 --> 00:33:32,078
Speaker 1: Last thing I vouched for me Joe before the season.

708
00:33:32,118 --> 00:33:35,118
Speaker 1: I always look at teams. I tell people this all

709
00:33:35,158 --> 00:33:38,718
Speaker 1: the time. Every year except one since we've gone to

710
00:33:38,718 --> 00:33:41,998
Speaker 1: the wild card ninety five. Every year but one, there's

711
00:33:41,998 --> 00:33:43,958
Speaker 1: been a team that had a losing record the year

712
00:33:43,958 --> 00:33:46,838
Speaker 1: before that winds up in the postseason. So teams turn

713
00:33:46,918 --> 00:33:50,238
Speaker 1: around quickly right on average, it's actually two per year.

714
00:33:50,918 --> 00:33:53,718
Speaker 1: So every year I look which team is going to

715
00:33:53,718 --> 00:33:57,038
Speaker 1: be in the postseason that had a losing record last year.

716
00:33:58,038 --> 00:34:00,998
Speaker 1: My first pick was the Texas Rangers, which lost ninety

717
00:34:00,998 --> 00:34:03,718
Speaker 1: four games last year. Two things turn around teams more

718
00:34:03,718 --> 00:34:08,798
Speaker 1: than anything else. Number one, better run prevention. If you

719
00:34:09,038 --> 00:34:13,518
Speaker 1: increase your run production doesn't necessarily equate to turning around

720
00:34:13,558 --> 00:34:18,118
Speaker 1: a team. If you decrease your how many runs you allow. Absolutely.

721
00:34:18,238 --> 00:34:21,038
Speaker 1: The other thing is changing a manager. Managers do make

722
00:34:21,078 --> 00:34:23,678
Speaker 1: a difference. And this is what I wrote about the

723
00:34:23,798 --> 00:34:26,638
Speaker 1: Rangers coming into this season. I said, this is a

724
00:34:26,638 --> 00:34:30,518
Speaker 1: long shot because of how far they must improve. Remember

725
00:34:30,518 --> 00:34:33,558
Speaker 1: we're talking about coming back from ninety four losses. Only

726
00:34:33,638 --> 00:34:36,038
Speaker 1: eight of the playoff teams in twenty eight years turned

727
00:34:36,078 --> 00:34:38,318
Speaker 1: around from ninety four losses or more.

728
00:34:38,398 --> 00:34:39,558
Speaker 2: Well, now you've got nine.

729
00:34:40,118 --> 00:34:42,998
Speaker 1: But with a change in managers, Bruce Boccie a major

730
00:34:43,078 --> 00:34:46,798
Speaker 1: upgrade and run prevention Jacob de Gram, Nathan Valdi Andrewheny.

731
00:34:47,318 --> 00:34:49,758
Speaker 1: The major's worst record in one run games that is

732
00:34:49,838 --> 00:34:52,318
Speaker 1: bound to improve fifteen to thirty five.

733
00:34:52,678 --> 00:34:55,838
Speaker 2: And the ban on shifts. No team saw more.

734
00:34:55,678 --> 00:34:57,718
Speaker 1: Of them or was harmed by them more than the

735
00:34:57,758 --> 00:35:02,598
Speaker 1: Texas Rangers last year. Then Texas has the right profile

736
00:35:02,718 --> 00:35:05,358
Speaker 1: to turn around. Listen, I'm not saying I knew they

737
00:35:05,358 --> 00:35:07,118
Speaker 1: were going to win the World Series. It's going way

738
00:35:07,158 --> 00:35:09,318
Speaker 1: too far. But they had them as a playoff team,

739
00:35:09,838 --> 00:35:12,198
Speaker 1: and one of the big reasons was they found the

740
00:35:12,278 --> 00:35:16,118
Speaker 1: right manager, a guy who's got the pedigree, knows how

741
00:35:16,198 --> 00:35:18,558
Speaker 1: to win and could get the most out of a team.

742
00:35:18,798 --> 00:35:20,918
Speaker 2: And managers do matter well.

743
00:35:20,958 --> 00:35:23,798
Speaker 3: I mean, I have to agree with that. I mean

744
00:35:23,838 --> 00:35:26,798
Speaker 3: I've had some success with the Rays and the Cubs

745
00:35:26,798 --> 00:35:29,758
Speaker 3: in both situations, and actually I really thought, just give

746
00:35:29,798 --> 00:35:31,358
Speaker 3: a little bit more time the Angels, we could have

747
00:35:31,358 --> 00:35:35,078
Speaker 3: gotten that done there too. It does. It's the culture shift,

748
00:35:35,118 --> 00:35:39,398
Speaker 3: the philosophical shift. That's the ability to relate to your players,

749
00:35:39,558 --> 00:35:42,238
Speaker 3: and of course, if you have had success in the past,

750
00:35:42,838 --> 00:35:45,518
Speaker 3: the cachet you've built up, the players are more apt

751
00:35:45,558 --> 00:35:47,598
Speaker 3: to listen to you. I've got so many guys coming

752
00:35:47,638 --> 00:35:51,078
Speaker 3: into my office, like the first with the Cubbies. Not

753
00:35:51,158 --> 00:35:53,518
Speaker 3: so much with the Rays. I was my first gig,

754
00:35:53,558 --> 00:35:55,398
Speaker 3: but with the Cubs you get guys coming in. I

755
00:35:55,558 --> 00:35:57,918
Speaker 3: just want to talk to you about you know, your philosophy,

756
00:35:57,958 --> 00:35:59,278
Speaker 3: what you've done in the past, how were going to

757
00:35:59,358 --> 00:36:00,958
Speaker 3: do it, What do you got for me here? And

758
00:36:00,998 --> 00:36:03,558
Speaker 3: the same thing absolutely happened a lot with the angel

759
00:36:03,598 --> 00:36:05,718
Speaker 3: A guys are coming into my office that first year,

760
00:36:06,038 --> 00:36:09,038
Speaker 3: but it was the COVID year. But they the players

761
00:36:09,038 --> 00:36:11,878
Speaker 3: do recognize what you've done in the past, and they

762
00:36:12,038 --> 00:36:14,758
Speaker 3: just they've they've talked to other players and so thus

763
00:36:15,318 --> 00:36:17,758
Speaker 3: that network's out there and guys want to talk to

764
00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:20,998
Speaker 3: you and just really try to catch on to what

765
00:36:21,038 --> 00:36:24,398
Speaker 3: you which are all about and what you see unfolding,

766
00:36:24,398 --> 00:36:26,038
Speaker 3: and really a lot of times it's how do you

767
00:36:26,078 --> 00:36:29,558
Speaker 3: see them specifically? So yeah, I do believe that managers

768
00:36:29,598 --> 00:36:32,838
Speaker 3: do make a difference a lot, but it has to

769
00:36:32,878 --> 00:36:34,958
Speaker 3: be in union lockstep with the front office.

770
00:36:35,558 --> 00:36:35,678
Speaker 2: Uh.

771
00:36:35,878 --> 00:36:38,878
Speaker 3: For instance, see why Chris Young and Boach could not

772
00:36:38,958 --> 00:36:42,638
Speaker 3: have been more closely aligned in this situation. It seemed

773
00:36:42,638 --> 00:36:45,118
Speaker 3: like the same thing was occurring in Arizona. And that's

774
00:36:45,158 --> 00:36:47,278
Speaker 3: why it's important for a GM to be able to

775
00:36:47,358 --> 00:36:51,558
Speaker 3: hire his own manager. Uh, that's that's paramount. I mean

776
00:36:51,598 --> 00:36:53,878
Speaker 3: I had that with the Rays with Andrew, and I

777
00:36:53,918 --> 00:36:55,918
Speaker 3: had it with the Angels with THEO but they did

778
00:36:55,998 --> 00:36:58,758
Speaker 3: not have that with the Angels started out with Billy Epfler,

779
00:36:59,678 --> 00:37:02,358
Speaker 3: but then then it turned into you know, Perry, and

780
00:37:03,078 --> 00:37:06,398
Speaker 3: obviously it was not so all those things matter, and

781
00:37:06,478 --> 00:37:09,038
Speaker 3: regarding the setting this thing up properly. Because you do,

782
00:37:09,758 --> 00:37:11,638
Speaker 3: you do have to have a close bond, I think

783
00:37:11,678 --> 00:37:13,958
Speaker 3: with the front office because things are again, things are

784
00:37:13,958 --> 00:37:16,478
Speaker 3: going to go badly, They're not going to go well,

785
00:37:16,798 --> 00:37:19,358
Speaker 3: and how to react to those moments. That's the separator

786
00:37:20,158 --> 00:37:22,798
Speaker 3: because from the field perspective, you need to have that backing.

787
00:37:22,798 --> 00:37:25,558
Speaker 3: From up top, you have to feel it, and from

788
00:37:25,638 --> 00:37:28,878
Speaker 3: up top down you have to have this conversation daily.

789
00:37:28,958 --> 00:37:32,078
Speaker 3: It's pretty much a daily conversation where you are working

790
00:37:32,198 --> 00:37:35,318
Speaker 3: up the same sheet of music with the ability to disagree.

791
00:37:35,518 --> 00:37:38,158
Speaker 3: That is very, very important, and I really believe I've

792
00:37:38,158 --> 00:37:40,598
Speaker 3: had that and most spots that I've been.

793
00:37:40,918 --> 00:37:43,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, most important relationship in baseball, no question about it.

794
00:37:43,958 --> 00:37:45,198
Speaker 2: Tory Leavello, Mike Hasen.

795
00:37:45,238 --> 00:37:47,678
Speaker 1: They go back to their days in Boston together, and

796
00:37:47,718 --> 00:37:49,598
Speaker 1: I think Tory would tell you he's a better manager

797
00:37:49,638 --> 00:37:51,998
Speaker 1: now in his seventh year than he first started out.

798
00:37:52,158 --> 00:37:54,118
Speaker 2: He is a experienced manager.

799
00:37:54,718 --> 00:37:57,278
Speaker 1: And of course Bach and Chris Young go back to

800
00:37:57,278 --> 00:37:59,478
Speaker 1: when Chris was pitching for him with the Padres, and

801
00:37:59,518 --> 00:38:03,238
Speaker 1: that relationship there is just is wonderful. We're gonna take

802
00:38:03,238 --> 00:38:06,438
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll have some closing thoughts on

803
00:38:06,478 --> 00:38:10,678
Speaker 1: that situation. Managers experience what wins in the postseason right

804
00:38:10,718 --> 00:38:24,158
Speaker 1: after this. You know, it's interesting Joe with Bruce Bochie,

805
00:38:24,198 --> 00:38:26,718
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't going to come back to any job.

806
00:38:26,798 --> 00:38:28,998
Speaker 1: You know, he did tell me that. You know, he

807
00:38:29,118 --> 00:38:32,358
Speaker 1: was coaching the France, the French national team, of course,

808
00:38:32,358 --> 00:38:35,118
Speaker 1: he was born in France. Preparing for the World Cup

809
00:38:35,118 --> 00:38:38,078
Speaker 1: and then WBC and he actually got back into the

810
00:38:38,198 --> 00:38:42,238
Speaker 1: dugout for a tournament in Germany, and after being out

811
00:38:42,278 --> 00:38:43,838
Speaker 1: of the game for two and a half three years,

812
00:38:44,438 --> 00:38:47,198
Speaker 1: he got that itch back and we got back home

813
00:38:47,278 --> 00:38:50,358
Speaker 1: state side, back to Nashville, sitting his recliner. That's when

814
00:38:50,438 --> 00:38:53,198
Speaker 1: Chris Young called, and I think he feeling that itch

815
00:38:53,198 --> 00:38:56,638
Speaker 1: and wanted to be back in the dugout. Chris Young

816
00:38:56,678 --> 00:38:59,678
Speaker 1: called at the right time. Now, it didn't end really

817
00:38:59,678 --> 00:39:02,678
Speaker 1: well for him with the Giants. By the way, I

818
00:39:02,678 --> 00:39:04,758
Speaker 1: didn't think at the time. I remember talking to Boach

819
00:39:04,758 --> 00:39:06,398
Speaker 1: a couple of times that year. I didn't think he

820
00:39:06,438 --> 00:39:08,438
Speaker 1: was done with baseball that year. I know he said

821
00:39:09,158 --> 00:39:11,158
Speaker 1: it was going to be his last year. But you

822
00:39:11,158 --> 00:39:13,598
Speaker 1: could tell when someone still has something left in the tank,

823
00:39:13,638 --> 00:39:16,158
Speaker 1: and I felt that with Bruce Bochi. And I think

824
00:39:16,198 --> 00:39:18,638
Speaker 1: when getting back to what you talked about, Joe, the

825
00:39:18,718 --> 00:39:21,438
Speaker 1: relationship between the GM and the manager.

826
00:39:21,798 --> 00:39:23,558
Speaker 2: It wasn't good with far Hans AEDI.

827
00:39:23,798 --> 00:39:26,878
Speaker 1: I mean one of the first games that Bruce Bochie managed,

828
00:39:27,598 --> 00:39:29,998
Speaker 1: he's stuck with a left on left pinch hitter because

829
00:39:30,238 --> 00:39:32,518
Speaker 1: the pitcher on the mound was having trouble throwing strikes

830
00:39:32,558 --> 00:39:34,958
Speaker 1: to lefties and it didn't work out.

831
00:39:34,998 --> 00:39:36,118
Speaker 2: I forget who the batter was.

832
00:39:36,198 --> 00:39:40,158
Speaker 1: I think this is opening day and Farhan come down

833
00:39:40,198 --> 00:39:41,758
Speaker 1: and ask him after the game, why are you hitting

834
00:39:41,798 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 1: the lefty against the lefty? I mean, this is Bruce

835
00:39:43,798 --> 00:39:47,838
Speaker 1: Bocci and Boach flat out told me the managing wasn't

836
00:39:47,878 --> 00:39:50,358
Speaker 1: as fun in that last year. He kind of lost

837
00:39:50,398 --> 00:39:52,838
Speaker 1: that joy because he lost his autonomy to run a game.

838
00:39:53,558 --> 00:39:54,598
Speaker 2: Chris Young hires him.

839
00:39:54,598 --> 00:39:56,478
Speaker 1: It's one of the first things that they talked about,

840
00:39:56,518 --> 00:39:58,878
Speaker 1: and it was one of the quickest conversations they have.

841
00:39:59,118 --> 00:40:01,318
Speaker 1: Bruce Bochi asked, do I have the autonomy to run

842
00:40:01,358 --> 00:40:03,838
Speaker 1: the game, and Chris Young fled out told him, listen,

843
00:40:03,958 --> 00:40:06,358
Speaker 1: We'll give you all the information that you want, but

844
00:40:06,398 --> 00:40:09,638
Speaker 1: the game is yours. And Chris Young has been true

845
00:40:09,638 --> 00:40:12,638
Speaker 1: to his word, and Bruce Bochi has thrived doing that.

846
00:40:13,718 --> 00:40:15,358
Speaker 1: I look around the game, Joe, I think it's a

847
00:40:15,438 --> 00:40:18,478
Speaker 1: lesson for a lot of these general managers. You know,

848
00:40:18,518 --> 00:40:21,438
Speaker 1: we've had Dusty Baker, We've had Brian Snicker, We've got

849
00:40:21,478 --> 00:40:26,518
Speaker 1: now Bruce Bochie. Experience matters, Allowing guys to run a

850
00:40:26,558 --> 00:40:29,318
Speaker 1: game matters. You know, everybody's out there looking for the

851
00:40:29,358 --> 00:40:32,398
Speaker 1: next hot shot manager who's never managed before, because you

852
00:40:32,438 --> 00:40:35,038
Speaker 1: want to be, you know, classified as a genius that

853
00:40:35,118 --> 00:40:37,478
Speaker 1: you identified the next phenom manager.

854
00:40:37,638 --> 00:40:38,918
Speaker 2: Great, knock yourself out.

855
00:40:40,238 --> 00:40:42,798
Speaker 1: But I still think having a guy in the dugout

856
00:40:42,798 --> 00:40:45,318
Speaker 1: who's been there, done that, with a winning pedigree still

857
00:40:45,318 --> 00:40:47,878
Speaker 1: matters in this game. And I think as team, look

858
00:40:47,918 --> 00:40:50,358
Speaker 1: around now and then we're in that period now where

859
00:40:50,358 --> 00:40:53,198
Speaker 1: you'll see now what five openings around Major League Baseball

860
00:40:53,278 --> 00:40:56,038
Speaker 1: being filled in the next couple of weeks. Let's see

861
00:40:56,038 --> 00:40:59,318
Speaker 1: how many pay attention to that. You know, people say

862
00:40:59,358 --> 00:41:02,198
Speaker 1: baseball is a copycat game. I don't actually believe that.

863
00:41:02,318 --> 00:41:05,518
Speaker 1: I mean, in some cases it is, But listen, if

864
00:41:05,518 --> 00:41:07,198
Speaker 1: you're looking at the game the last few years and

865
00:41:07,238 --> 00:41:10,678
Speaker 1: what wins you know, experience, and it's not just a manager.

866
00:41:11,278 --> 00:41:13,638
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, they went now, Chris Young went out

867
00:41:13,678 --> 00:41:17,078
Speaker 1: and hired Mike Maddox forty two years as a pitching coach.

868
00:41:17,718 --> 00:41:20,758
Speaker 1: Hey he was done with the Cardinals reached out to him.

869
00:41:20,958 --> 00:41:25,038
Speaker 1: Mike Haysen reached out to Tory Leavello, reached out to

870
00:41:25,038 --> 00:41:27,478
Speaker 1: Brent Strom. When Brent Strom was done with the Astro,

871
00:41:27,638 --> 00:41:30,078
Speaker 1: say we want you. He's seventy five years old. He's

872
00:41:30,078 --> 00:41:33,198
Speaker 1: as good as any pitching coach in the business. Both

873
00:41:33,318 --> 00:41:37,718
Speaker 1: staffs had excellent coaching staffs, a lot of experience. We'll

874
00:41:37,758 --> 00:41:39,758
Speaker 1: see if that matters here in this go round of

875
00:41:40,158 --> 00:41:41,838
Speaker 1: teams looking for managers and coaches.

876
00:41:42,438 --> 00:41:44,078
Speaker 3: Listen, I can, I'd agree with you more on that.

877
00:41:44,438 --> 00:41:48,238
Speaker 3: The staff that's really man It's gotten to the point

878
00:41:48,318 --> 00:41:51,398
Speaker 3: where groups almost believe that anybody can be a coach

879
00:41:51,438 --> 00:41:54,438
Speaker 3: in the big leagues, and I really strongly disagree with that.

880
00:41:54,558 --> 00:41:57,278
Speaker 3: And to get back to the experience, the fearlessness that

881
00:41:57,518 --> 00:42:00,958
Speaker 3: on a daily basis, the tough conversations, the honest conversations

882
00:42:01,638 --> 00:42:05,718
Speaker 3: that are just really you know, for somebody without that

883
00:42:05,798 --> 00:42:09,518
Speaker 3: experience having those difficult conversations, it's just not easy. And

884
00:42:09,758 --> 00:42:12,838
Speaker 3: from a player's perspective, I believe that if you have

885
00:42:12,878 --> 00:42:15,118
Speaker 3: somebody with some cachet and they have that conversation with

886
00:42:15,198 --> 00:42:17,838
Speaker 3: you, you're going to be more readily acceptable of it. So

887
00:42:17,878 --> 00:42:19,838
Speaker 3: I like the idea of an experienced staff with an

888
00:42:19,878 --> 00:42:24,798
Speaker 3: experience manager absolutely, And it's a difference maker, you know,

889
00:42:24,798 --> 00:42:28,398
Speaker 3: from a manager's perspective me talking in a dugout, when

890
00:42:28,438 --> 00:42:30,398
Speaker 3: you have people that you can honestly walk up to

891
00:42:30,918 --> 00:42:33,358
Speaker 3: and ask them their opinion, whether it's during the game,

892
00:42:33,598 --> 00:42:37,798
Speaker 3: after the game, before the game, and if you know

893
00:42:38,078 --> 00:42:39,878
Speaker 3: this guy has been around and done a few things

894
00:42:39,918 --> 00:42:42,878
Speaker 3: and he's very good at this craft of coaching, Wow,

895
00:42:42,958 --> 00:42:44,598
Speaker 3: what an advantage that is for you in a group.

896
00:42:44,638 --> 00:42:48,318
Speaker 3: And another thing about that, I think it's really well

897
00:42:48,318 --> 00:42:50,558
Speaker 3: done when you keep your coaching staff for a period

898
00:42:50,598 --> 00:42:53,278
Speaker 3: of time as a group. I think that really benefits

899
00:42:53,318 --> 00:42:56,878
Speaker 3: the organization. It absolutely benefits that group of players on

900
00:42:56,918 --> 00:42:59,558
Speaker 3: an annual basis, and then it's going to permeate throughout

901
00:42:59,558 --> 00:43:02,078
Speaker 3: the rest of the organization. And the final point, I

902
00:43:02,118 --> 00:43:05,518
Speaker 3: like it when you promote from within your organization and

903
00:43:05,598 --> 00:43:07,358
Speaker 3: guys that have really earned the right from the minor

904
00:43:07,438 --> 00:43:10,038
Speaker 3: leagues to get to your big league team. They've done

905
00:43:10,038 --> 00:43:12,558
Speaker 3: the time, they've done different things, they've been on different levels,

906
00:43:13,078 --> 00:43:15,438
Speaker 3: very jobs, and that to me is the kind of

907
00:43:15,478 --> 00:43:18,598
Speaker 3: guy you want there, somebody that's been in house for

908
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:22,158
Speaker 3: a bit, hopefully possibly, if not, then just somebody a

909
00:43:22,158 --> 00:43:25,078
Speaker 3: great experience that maybe there's a tie with the manager

910
00:43:25,198 --> 00:43:27,678
Speaker 3: or the GM or whomever. Last point, I like when

911
00:43:27,678 --> 00:43:29,838
Speaker 3: the manager gets to hire its own coaching staff too.

912
00:43:30,078 --> 00:43:33,558
Speaker 3: I think that's important. Finally, with all this stuff you're

913
00:43:33,558 --> 00:43:37,358
Speaker 3: talking about, all the information, I'll say it again, the

914
00:43:37,398 --> 00:43:41,838
Speaker 3: primary reason for all this analytical information should be a

915
00:43:41,838 --> 00:43:44,358
Speaker 3: acquisitional This is the time of the year when, to me,

916
00:43:44,438 --> 00:43:48,358
Speaker 3: a really good analytical staff could shine by finding players

917
00:43:48,398 --> 00:43:51,278
Speaker 3: that maybe other teams aren't seeking, because you're able to

918
00:43:51,278 --> 00:43:55,438
Speaker 3: look under the hood and evaluate strongly items that you

919
00:43:55,478 --> 00:43:58,758
Speaker 3: consider important within your group that maybe somebody else is overlooking.

920
00:43:59,198 --> 00:44:00,878
Speaker 3: I love it from that. But that was like my

921
00:44:00,958 --> 00:44:05,118
Speaker 3: favorite thing when talking to the analysts was that he's

922
00:44:05,118 --> 00:44:07,438
Speaker 3: talked about when we got Logan Forsyth. I remember the

923
00:44:07,478 --> 00:44:10,798
Speaker 3: conversation when Andrew called me in the winter time in

924
00:44:10,918 --> 00:44:13,718
Speaker 3: Long Beach and he says, how do you feel about

925
00:44:13,758 --> 00:44:16,198
Speaker 3: Fernando Rodney? And I'm thinking, Wow, I mean, this guy's

926
00:44:16,238 --> 00:44:18,638
Speaker 3: like all over the place is probably like between thirty

927
00:44:18,638 --> 00:44:21,158
Speaker 3: five and forty I don't even know. We really like him,

928
00:44:21,318 --> 00:44:22,918
Speaker 3: and then he goes on to have like the best

929
00:44:23,438 --> 00:44:26,278
Speaker 3: year ever, and then Joaquin ben Wi. I like Benny too.

930
00:44:26,478 --> 00:44:30,078
Speaker 3: Look what Benny did that year. So that's the genius

931
00:44:30,478 --> 00:44:33,078
Speaker 3: of a really good front office is getting the right

932
00:44:33,078 --> 00:44:35,878
Speaker 3: guys in the building. I think. Then after that, the

933
00:44:35,918 --> 00:44:41,478
Speaker 3: pregame stuff overblown, overplayed. That really is a superstar. When

934
00:44:41,478 --> 00:44:44,718
Speaker 3: it comes to defense, there's no question I want you

935
00:44:44,758 --> 00:44:47,038
Speaker 3: to tell me exactly where to put my defenders. I'm

936
00:44:47,038 --> 00:44:49,318
Speaker 3: not going to argue with that at all. Really, this

937
00:44:49,398 --> 00:44:52,678
Speaker 3: goes back to the race. That's where we really did

938
00:44:52,718 --> 00:44:55,198
Speaker 3: well and where we really sent it was because like

939
00:44:55,238 --> 00:44:57,518
Speaker 3: you talked about run prevention. That was the big thing.

940
00:44:57,558 --> 00:44:59,998
Speaker 3: Because we couldn't get the run makers, we could get

941
00:45:00,038 --> 00:45:02,838
Speaker 3: the run preventers, and that was a big part of

942
00:45:02,878 --> 00:45:05,278
Speaker 3: the ascension of the RAS, and that truly still I

943
00:45:05,278 --> 00:45:08,438
Speaker 3: believe is a big part of their DNA. I love

944
00:45:08,478 --> 00:45:10,158
Speaker 3: that part about it. So we got all of that

945
00:45:11,118 --> 00:45:15,118
Speaker 3: within that and beyond. I do like game planning from

946
00:45:15,158 --> 00:45:18,718
Speaker 3: a pitching perspective, game planning. I don't like edicts. I

947
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:21,158
Speaker 3: like game planning. I like it. And again to talk

948
00:45:21,198 --> 00:45:24,518
Speaker 3: about Mike Barcelo again, and we've talked about Danny Harron,

949
00:45:24,718 --> 00:45:26,998
Speaker 3: a guy that can really break down the opposition and

950
00:45:27,038 --> 00:45:29,958
Speaker 3: create nuggets for the for the picture in the meeting,

951
00:45:30,318 --> 00:45:32,558
Speaker 3: or the pitchers in a meeting, catcher to hold on

952
00:45:32,598 --> 00:45:38,198
Speaker 3: to and then easily transmissive transmit transmittable during the course

953
00:45:38,198 --> 00:45:40,358
Speaker 3: of the game from the dugout to the catcher. These

954
00:45:40,398 --> 00:45:42,718
Speaker 3: are the kind of things that I think is where

955
00:45:42,878 --> 00:45:47,118
Speaker 3: this stuff shines now when it comes down to you, lineups,

956
00:45:48,078 --> 00:45:51,078
Speaker 3: bullpen management, all this stuff. I promise you, if you've

957
00:45:51,118 --> 00:45:54,038
Speaker 3: done this long enough, if you've been a manager or

958
00:45:54,158 --> 00:45:57,158
Speaker 3: coach and a min whatever for forty years, you'll know

959
00:45:57,278 --> 00:46:00,638
Speaker 3: how to work your bullpen and you'll understand the matchups

960
00:46:00,838 --> 00:46:03,198
Speaker 3: and you'll know what's the best lot to put somebody in.

961
00:46:03,438 --> 00:46:04,838
Speaker 3: I'm when to come down to your line if you

962
00:46:04,838 --> 00:46:07,278
Speaker 3: have the creativity to know what you're seeing when it

963
00:46:07,318 --> 00:46:08,998
Speaker 3: needs to be changed, when it needs to be the same.

964
00:46:09,278 --> 00:46:11,198
Speaker 3: Does it he need to be left, right, left right,

965
00:46:11,318 --> 00:46:15,038
Speaker 3: or does it need to be right, left, right, right left,

966
00:46:15,118 --> 00:46:17,398
Speaker 3: Just important to protect and right and another two rights

967
00:46:17,438 --> 00:46:19,398
Speaker 3: man in order to protect the left handed hitter. All

968
00:46:19,438 --> 00:46:23,358
Speaker 3: these things you can do. So yes, the analytical part

969
00:46:23,478 --> 00:46:25,958
Speaker 3: is really important. It does not need to be part

970
00:46:25,998 --> 00:46:29,038
Speaker 3: of the game, and in the sense that when CI

971
00:46:29,198 --> 00:46:32,478
Speaker 3: told Boach it's your game, that's the way to do it.

972
00:46:33,358 --> 00:46:35,318
Speaker 3: Prior to that, give me as much information as you

973
00:46:35,438 --> 00:46:35,998
Speaker 3: possibly can.

974
00:46:36,958 --> 00:46:39,758
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up with Boach, especially

975
00:46:41,038 --> 00:46:42,518
Speaker 1: you know he's listen.

976
00:46:42,638 --> 00:46:44,838
Speaker 2: I not that anybody is infallible.

977
00:46:45,118 --> 00:46:47,198
Speaker 1: I mean, we all love the second guess, right, but

978
00:46:47,318 --> 00:46:49,798
Speaker 1: when Bruce Bochi makes him move late in the game,

979
00:46:50,118 --> 00:46:52,678
Speaker 1: I tend to immediately think, all right, he's got his

980
00:46:52,798 --> 00:46:54,878
Speaker 1: reasons for doing it. It's probably the right move. I'm

981
00:46:54,918 --> 00:46:57,438
Speaker 1: not sure if it'll work out, but he's been that

982
00:46:57,558 --> 00:47:00,478
Speaker 1: good for that long, right. So in game number four,

983
00:47:00,638 --> 00:47:03,598
Speaker 1: he brings in his closer, jose Leclerk, and he had

984
00:47:03,678 --> 00:47:05,838
Speaker 1: him up with the bullpen in a game that was

985
00:47:05,918 --> 00:47:09,398
Speaker 1: eleven to five in the ninth inning. And then I

986
00:47:09,518 --> 00:47:11,678
Speaker 1: heard people talk about, oh, you don't want to give

987
00:47:11,718 --> 00:47:13,478
Speaker 1: the team another look at your closer.

988
00:47:13,678 --> 00:47:14,438
Speaker 2: Why get them up.

989
00:47:14,478 --> 00:47:17,758
Speaker 1: You may have them for less the next day, because

990
00:47:17,798 --> 00:47:21,318
Speaker 1: that'll be three days in a row. Boloney, he had

991
00:47:21,358 --> 00:47:23,318
Speaker 1: a chance to close out a World Series win. You

992
00:47:23,398 --> 00:47:25,638
Speaker 1: know how precious those are. You don't mess around with them.

993
00:47:26,158 --> 00:47:28,878
Speaker 1: And once you have him up, you're more likely to

994
00:47:28,998 --> 00:47:31,798
Speaker 1: get him into the game. It's exactly what Bruce Bochi

995
00:47:31,878 --> 00:47:34,758
Speaker 1: did was the safe situation. No, but he wasn't messing

996
00:47:34,798 --> 00:47:36,718
Speaker 1: around with a World Series game. And guess what he

997
00:47:36,838 --> 00:47:40,118
Speaker 1: knows that Jose Leclerk, this guy of rubber Arm likes

998
00:47:40,158 --> 00:47:42,478
Speaker 1: to pitch three days in a row, wasn't going to

999
00:47:42,558 --> 00:47:45,078
Speaker 1: be extended where it was going to affect anything about

1000
00:47:45,158 --> 00:47:47,318
Speaker 1: Game five. And you know what happened in game five.

1001
00:47:47,758 --> 00:47:51,078
Speaker 1: He didn't need jose Laclerk. And what happened in Game

1002
00:47:51,118 --> 00:47:53,678
Speaker 1: five is he puts Josh Spores out there. This is

1003
00:47:53,718 --> 00:47:57,158
Speaker 1: a guy who is dfade by the Dodgers just two

1004
00:47:57,278 --> 00:48:00,158
Speaker 1: years ago, and that the Rangers picked him up and

1005
00:48:00,438 --> 00:48:03,558
Speaker 1: under the radar Minor League transaction after he was dfaed.

1006
00:48:04,238 --> 00:48:07,198
Speaker 1: Now Bruce Bochie brings him into this World Series game

1007
00:48:07,598 --> 00:48:08,438
Speaker 1: in the seventh inning.

1008
00:48:08,838 --> 00:48:11,198
Speaker 2: And guess what he left him in there? Why did

1009
00:48:11,238 --> 00:48:11,958
Speaker 2: he leave him in there?

1010
00:48:11,998 --> 00:48:13,958
Speaker 1: Because he was throwing the ball well the same way

1011
00:48:13,998 --> 00:48:16,478
Speaker 1: he left Madison Bumgardner in to finish out the fourteen

1012
00:48:16,558 --> 00:48:17,238
Speaker 1: World Series.

1013
00:48:17,518 --> 00:48:20,678
Speaker 2: He's paid attention to what he's looking at. So Josh Spors,

1014
00:48:20,718 --> 00:48:21,198
Speaker 2: a guy.

1015
00:48:21,398 --> 00:48:25,438
Speaker 1: Who had one career save, saved the clinching game of

1016
00:48:25,478 --> 00:48:26,398
Speaker 1: a World Series.

1017
00:48:26,678 --> 00:48:29,558
Speaker 2: So now you look at Bruce Bochie's World Championships, how

1018
00:48:29,598 --> 00:48:30,198
Speaker 2: did they end?

1019
00:48:31,038 --> 00:48:35,238
Speaker 1: One was Brian Wilson, one was Sergei o Romo, one

1020
00:48:35,398 --> 00:48:38,198
Speaker 1: was Madison Bumgardner, and now we have Josh Spors.

1021
00:48:38,638 --> 00:48:41,398
Speaker 2: I don't think that was scripted. Joe, he paid attention.

1022
00:48:41,998 --> 00:48:43,918
Speaker 1: In game four, he had a chance to close out

1023
00:48:43,958 --> 00:48:45,798
Speaker 1: the game with his closer, don't mess around with it,

1024
00:48:45,998 --> 00:48:49,078
Speaker 1: non save situation. Bang puts him in the game game over,

1025
00:48:49,398 --> 00:48:51,918
Speaker 1: still had him for Game five, didn't need him because

1026
00:48:51,958 --> 00:48:53,998
Speaker 1: he saw that Josh Spores had the game in hand

1027
00:48:54,398 --> 00:48:57,158
Speaker 1: and stuck with this kid. I mean that's Bruce Bochie

1028
00:48:57,198 --> 00:48:58,958
Speaker 1: to me watching him manage those two games.

1029
00:48:59,238 --> 00:49:01,118
Speaker 3: Part of the concern with the clerk there too is

1030
00:49:01,158 --> 00:49:02,838
Speaker 3: if I don't put him in the game THEMB and

1031
00:49:02,958 --> 00:49:05,238
Speaker 3: have to put him in the game later with a

1032
00:49:05,318 --> 00:49:07,838
Speaker 3: more stressful situation because maybe he didn't have really a

1033
00:49:07,918 --> 00:49:09,758
Speaker 3: lot of faith and this other guy that he may

1034
00:49:09,798 --> 00:49:12,118
Speaker 3: want to put in there, because that happens also where

1035
00:49:12,158 --> 00:49:13,838
Speaker 3: you try to you try to stretch it or get

1036
00:49:13,878 --> 00:49:16,238
Speaker 3: through it this way, but you end up eventually having

1037
00:49:16,278 --> 00:49:19,558
Speaker 3: to warm up this other your guy eventually anyhow, And

1038
00:49:19,638 --> 00:49:20,918
Speaker 3: he might have had that in the back of his

1039
00:49:21,078 --> 00:49:23,438
Speaker 3: mind too. So yeah, listen, when you have a chance

1040
00:49:23,518 --> 00:49:25,838
Speaker 3: to put your foot on the neck in this situation,

1041
00:49:25,958 --> 00:49:27,758
Speaker 3: you put the foot on the neck. That's that's as

1042
00:49:27,798 --> 00:49:30,478
Speaker 3: simple as it is. I cannot agree with them more.

1043
00:49:30,558 --> 00:49:33,438
Speaker 3: And you pointed it out. You have no idea what's

1044
00:49:33,478 --> 00:49:35,478
Speaker 3: going to happen the next day. You have no idea.

1045
00:49:35,878 --> 00:49:39,438
Speaker 3: And furthermore, the clerk having the ability easily, the ability

1046
00:49:39,478 --> 00:49:40,958
Speaker 3: to go three days in a row. That's something that

1047
00:49:40,998 --> 00:49:46,118
Speaker 3: I've argued with different folks regarding bullpen management. That's why

1048
00:49:46,158 --> 00:49:48,678
Speaker 3: it's important to talk to and understand each and every

1049
00:49:48,718 --> 00:49:52,118
Speaker 3: one of your relief pictures talked about Rafael Soriana with

1050
00:49:52,198 --> 00:49:54,958
Speaker 3: the rays. Rafael comes in my office one day, so

1051
00:49:54,998 --> 00:49:59,198
Speaker 3: also I listen, I could some days. I feel better

1052
00:50:00,118 --> 00:50:02,358
Speaker 3: or worse on the second day, but I feel great

1053
00:50:02,478 --> 00:50:05,358
Speaker 3: on the third day. So I pitches one night. Next

1054
00:50:05,478 --> 00:50:07,158
Speaker 3: day it comes in not so good. But the assumption

1055
00:50:07,318 --> 00:50:09,198
Speaker 3: is you've only pitched one one day in a row,

1056
00:50:09,278 --> 00:50:11,038
Speaker 3: so let's get them two days in a row. Here.

1057
00:50:11,438 --> 00:50:13,558
Speaker 3: So then you say no, you can't pitch on the

1058
00:50:13,598 --> 00:50:15,238
Speaker 3: third day. Say if I come in here and I

1059
00:50:15,358 --> 00:50:17,318
Speaker 3: tell you I'm good on the third day, I'm good.

1060
00:50:18,358 --> 00:50:20,198
Speaker 3: So we did it. We did it without any any

1061
00:50:20,238 --> 00:50:21,998
Speaker 3: problem whatsoever. We had a great year for the race.

1062
00:50:22,358 --> 00:50:25,358
Speaker 3: So it's so important. All these nobody's the same. They

1063
00:50:25,398 --> 00:50:28,518
Speaker 3: treat everybody though they're the same. They're the same China doll,

1064
00:50:28,558 --> 00:50:32,438
Speaker 3: they're not. Everybody's created differently. Pay attention to them, talk

1065
00:50:32,518 --> 00:50:35,078
Speaker 3: to them, watch them. And I know this year with

1066
00:50:35,198 --> 00:50:37,358
Speaker 3: the Chappie the second time two days in row, I

1067
00:50:37,398 --> 00:50:40,278
Speaker 3: guess was not as fruitful, but who knows. It could

1068
00:50:40,278 --> 00:50:42,078
Speaker 3: be an anomaly. The guy still throw one hundred miles

1069
00:50:42,118 --> 00:50:43,958
Speaker 3: an hour, but he's he've been pitching for a while.

1070
00:50:44,318 --> 00:50:47,318
Speaker 3: Just know your guys, talk to your guys, pay attention,

1071
00:50:47,598 --> 00:50:50,878
Speaker 3: and then make determinations on an individual basis and not

1072
00:50:51,118 --> 00:50:51,678
Speaker 3: as a group.

1073
00:50:51,918 --> 00:50:54,278
Speaker 1: Well said, just to wrap things up, the Rangers are

1074
00:50:54,278 --> 00:50:57,398
Speaker 1: world champions because they were the better team. I thought

1075
00:50:57,518 --> 00:51:00,598
Speaker 1: Evan Carter really lengthened their lineup. That kid is and

1076
00:51:00,798 --> 00:51:03,598
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this on future podcast, Joe. He really

1077
00:51:03,638 --> 00:51:07,478
Speaker 1: remind me of young Don Mattingly with speed, This you know,

1078
00:51:07,678 --> 00:51:11,878
Speaker 1: slope shouldered kid that just he covers everything, great idea

1079
00:51:11,918 --> 00:51:14,558
Speaker 1: of the strike zone. I mean, he just murdered fastballs,

1080
00:51:14,638 --> 00:51:17,518
Speaker 1: especially that entire Series. I mean, that's a twenty one

1081
00:51:17,558 --> 00:51:19,638
Speaker 1: year old kid who was in the minor leagues in July,

1082
00:51:19,878 --> 00:51:22,758
Speaker 1: who's hitting third in your lineup in the World Series.

1083
00:51:22,878 --> 00:51:25,638
Speaker 2: Just amazing tough mindedness of that team.

1084
00:51:27,078 --> 00:51:30,398
Speaker 1: You know, Adulas Garcia and Max Schurzer get hurt and

1085
00:51:30,478 --> 00:51:32,078
Speaker 1: they go out there and they they're up ten to

1086
00:51:32,118 --> 00:51:35,438
Speaker 1: nothing three incs into the next game, score eleven runs.

1087
00:51:36,038 --> 00:51:39,678
Speaker 1: Nothing bothered this team, eleven and oh on the road

1088
00:51:39,958 --> 00:51:42,478
Speaker 1: in the postseason. I'm not sure if we'll ever see

1089
00:51:42,518 --> 00:51:45,398
Speaker 1: that again. That is hard to do, folks. Eleven and

1090
00:51:45,478 --> 00:51:47,998
Speaker 1: oh when they score first, they never let a game

1091
00:51:48,078 --> 00:51:53,358
Speaker 1: get away. So deeper lineup, tough minded team, veteran manager.

1092
00:51:54,238 --> 00:51:57,158
Speaker 1: That's that's your Texas Rangers, a team that flat out

1093
00:51:57,598 --> 00:51:59,118
Speaker 1: earned this in the postseason.

1094
00:51:59,718 --> 00:52:01,558
Speaker 3: That sounds like a template to follow there if you

1095
00:52:01,598 --> 00:52:03,998
Speaker 3: want to if you want to try to replicate of

1096
00:52:04,038 --> 00:52:07,798
Speaker 3: those that did not win this year. It sounds simple,

1097
00:52:07,998 --> 00:52:10,798
Speaker 3: but not as easy to put together. A lot of

1098
00:52:10,838 --> 00:52:13,438
Speaker 3: it has to come down to how your worldview as

1099
00:52:13,478 --> 00:52:16,718
Speaker 3: a baseball executive and what you perceive to be important.

1100
00:52:16,918 --> 00:52:19,198
Speaker 3: And again it's going to be a lot of that's

1101
00:52:19,278 --> 00:52:22,198
Speaker 3: based on who you surround yourself with and the kind

1102
00:52:22,238 --> 00:52:24,758
Speaker 3: of information until you get on a daily basis, and

1103
00:52:24,878 --> 00:52:26,918
Speaker 3: that's what you're going to follow. I understand that, of

1104
00:52:26,998 --> 00:52:31,118
Speaker 3: course revenue, how much money do I have to spend allocate?

1105
00:52:32,078 --> 00:52:34,278
Speaker 3: How many wrong decisions can we make? How much money

1106
00:52:34,278 --> 00:52:36,398
Speaker 3: can we afford to make a wrong decision with Also

1107
00:52:36,998 --> 00:52:38,278
Speaker 3: that matters a lot.

1108
00:52:38,518 --> 00:52:41,158
Speaker 2: So that matters a lot. Hey, I'm glad you said,

1109
00:52:41,398 --> 00:52:43,078
Speaker 2: by the way, the player is centric.

1110
00:52:43,278 --> 00:52:45,158
Speaker 1: You know when I think about Chris Young, by the way,

1111
00:52:45,558 --> 00:52:48,918
Speaker 1: he's only the third person ever to win a World

1112
00:52:49,038 --> 00:52:53,078
Speaker 1: Series as a player and as an executive the Overleaf pitcher,

1113
00:52:53,198 --> 00:52:56,278
Speaker 1: Johnny Murphy with the Yankees, and then one of the

1114
00:52:56,398 --> 00:52:59,678
Speaker 1: sixty nine title with the Mets and stay Unusual. Wow,

1115
00:53:00,038 --> 00:53:02,518
Speaker 1: actually want to title as a GM of the Cardinals

1116
00:53:03,318 --> 00:53:05,798
Speaker 1: the only three I didn't know that to play and

1117
00:53:05,838 --> 00:53:08,158
Speaker 1: when in World Series ring and then as an executive

1118
00:53:08,278 --> 00:53:12,918
Speaker 1: And it was a player centric operation that Chris Young ran.

1119
00:53:13,438 --> 00:53:15,878
Speaker 2: We'll see if that catches on. And we've talked about

1120
00:53:15,878 --> 00:53:16,398
Speaker 2: this before.

1121
00:53:16,478 --> 00:53:19,758
Speaker 1: I told you he told all his analytics guys, I

1122
00:53:19,838 --> 00:53:22,518
Speaker 1: don't want you in the clubhouse, in the lunch room,

1123
00:53:22,718 --> 00:53:25,518
Speaker 1: in the weight room unless you have specific business to do.

1124
00:53:25,878 --> 00:53:28,878
Speaker 1: That's their space and Chris Young told me, he said,

1125
00:53:28,918 --> 00:53:31,478
Speaker 1: I think I scared those guys because that one of

1126
00:53:31,518 --> 00:53:33,878
Speaker 1: the first laws I laid down in spring training. He

1127
00:53:33,998 --> 00:53:38,318
Speaker 1: just didn't want them hanging around literally their space. So

1128
00:53:38,838 --> 00:53:42,078
Speaker 1: that player centric worldview from Chris Young. We'll see if

1129
00:53:42,158 --> 00:53:45,758
Speaker 1: that catches on. But that was not a small thing

1130
00:53:45,838 --> 00:53:47,238
Speaker 1: and why the Rangers won as well.

1131
00:53:47,678 --> 00:53:49,758
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that. That's exactly right. That's what

1132
00:53:49,798 --> 00:53:53,278
Speaker 3: I'd been talking about all along. And again, people have

1133
00:53:53,358 --> 00:53:56,838
Speaker 3: to understand this. I want you want the best analytical

1134
00:53:56,878 --> 00:54:00,158
Speaker 3: group money can buy within your organization, absolutely, and it

1135
00:54:00,238 --> 00:54:02,638
Speaker 3: starts right now November. Acquisition or what are we going

1136
00:54:02,718 --> 00:54:05,758
Speaker 3: to get in CS. I need to know where to

1137
00:54:05,798 --> 00:54:08,078
Speaker 3: set my defenders. I need to know where I want

1138
00:54:08,118 --> 00:54:11,318
Speaker 3: to pitch some people. And then otherwise, if there's some

1139
00:54:11,478 --> 00:54:13,918
Speaker 3: really cool nuggets, let me hear about it. But I

1140
00:54:13,998 --> 00:54:17,398
Speaker 3: understand there's a lot of stuff there that any real

1141
00:54:17,518 --> 00:54:19,198
Speaker 3: baseball guy that's been doing it for a while, he

1142
00:54:19,238 --> 00:54:21,318
Speaker 3: could set a lineup, like I said, he could run

1143
00:54:21,358 --> 00:54:23,598
Speaker 3: a bullpen, he could do all those different things if

1144
00:54:23,638 --> 00:54:26,438
Speaker 3: he's been doing it long enough. We don't need as

1145
00:54:26,558 --> 00:54:30,158
Speaker 3: much inteler information there as some people may think. So

1146
00:54:30,558 --> 00:54:34,638
Speaker 3: that's where this group shines, and I've had great relationships

1147
00:54:34,678 --> 00:54:38,238
Speaker 3: with my analytical staffs everywhere I've been. I've enjoyed the conversation.

1148
00:54:38,318 --> 00:54:39,878
Speaker 3: I've learned a lot. I learned a lot, and I

1149
00:54:39,918 --> 00:54:42,398
Speaker 3: started with Andrew. Andrew taught me a lot. Andrew was

1150
00:54:42,438 --> 00:54:44,518
Speaker 3: all over my butt early on for not matching up

1151
00:54:44,838 --> 00:54:46,718
Speaker 3: my bullpen more often, but I just didn't see the

1152
00:54:46,918 --> 00:54:49,118
Speaker 3: point because the bullpen wasn't that good, and I was

1153
00:54:49,198 --> 00:54:50,958
Speaker 3: just trying to go with how I perceived to be

1154
00:54:51,038 --> 00:54:53,278
Speaker 3: the better guy at that time, whether he's right or

1155
00:54:53,358 --> 00:54:56,598
Speaker 3: left handed, and then you go, we get further along

1156
00:54:56,638 --> 00:54:59,038
Speaker 3: and then we had better options. And he began in

1157
00:54:59,078 --> 00:55:01,038
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight with j Ap Howell and Grant

1158
00:55:01,078 --> 00:55:04,318
Speaker 3: Balfour being middle any closers, and that really open my

1159
00:55:04,358 --> 00:55:06,678
Speaker 3: eyes to a lot about the middle part of the game,

1160
00:55:06,798 --> 00:55:09,758
Speaker 3: and also the part where you don't have to wait

1161
00:55:09,998 --> 00:55:11,998
Speaker 3: to bring somebody in the game. If it's a high

1162
00:55:12,078 --> 00:55:14,478
Speaker 3: leverage situation, you get the right guy in the moment

1163
00:55:14,918 --> 00:55:17,358
Speaker 3: and don't worry about the next couple innings because hopefully

1164
00:55:17,358 --> 00:55:19,518
Speaker 3: they'll take care of themselves. So I learned a lot

1165
00:55:19,558 --> 00:55:21,918
Speaker 3: from manager and feel in a group in Chicago's same

1166
00:55:21,998 --> 00:55:25,238
Speaker 3: thing and then eventually there was some really good analytical

1167
00:55:25,358 --> 00:55:29,558
Speaker 3: dudes in Anaheim. Also, just like I said, the point

1168
00:55:29,718 --> 00:55:35,878
Speaker 3: is know where you belong and how to distribute disseminate

1169
00:55:35,958 --> 00:55:38,798
Speaker 3: this information. And when that's done properly with the right

1170
00:55:38,918 --> 00:55:42,398
Speaker 3: kind of method, like see why employed there, you're gonna

1171
00:55:42,398 --> 00:55:44,398
Speaker 3: have a real unified group. And that's what you want.

1172
00:55:44,438 --> 00:55:46,918
Speaker 3: You want a unified group top to bottom. You want

1173
00:55:47,038 --> 00:55:52,558
Speaker 3: the staff, the coaching staff manager to really be in

1174
00:55:52,678 --> 00:55:55,678
Speaker 3: lockstep with this analytical group. And in order to do that,

1175
00:55:55,918 --> 00:55:57,798
Speaker 3: you have to really set some boundaries like you just

1176
00:55:57,878 --> 00:56:00,398
Speaker 3: talked about, and when you do do that, you're going

1177
00:56:00,438 --> 00:56:02,358
Speaker 3: to get something that works really well, just i e.

1178
00:56:02,478 --> 00:56:03,798
Speaker 3: The Texas Strangers in twenty twenty.

1179
00:56:04,638 --> 00:56:07,118
Speaker 2: Last thing for me, Joe, I know the television ratings

1180
00:56:07,158 --> 00:56:07,758
Speaker 2: weren't great.

1181
00:56:07,838 --> 00:56:11,398
Speaker 1: I think that was expected going in Listen, you had

1182
00:56:11,438 --> 00:56:15,758
Speaker 1: two surprise teams, and you know, the star power, if

1183
00:56:15,798 --> 00:56:19,118
Speaker 1: you will, was not off the charts, and not just

1184
00:56:19,198 --> 00:56:21,838
Speaker 1: in baseball, but in society now we're more a star

1185
00:56:21,958 --> 00:56:26,358
Speaker 1: and celebrity driven than ever before, and people are just

1186
00:56:26,478 --> 00:56:29,478
Speaker 1: not warming up to cute little narratives like you know,

1187
00:56:29,798 --> 00:56:32,438
Speaker 1: coming from two years ago losing more than one hundred games,

1188
00:56:32,438 --> 00:56:34,398
Speaker 1: and going to the World Series as both teams did.

1189
00:56:34,478 --> 00:56:36,998
Speaker 1: I get that, But on a personal level, I can

1190
00:56:37,038 --> 00:56:39,278
Speaker 1: tell you it was a pleasure dealing with both of

1191
00:56:39,358 --> 00:56:43,118
Speaker 1: these teams. I mean the front offices, the managers, to

1192
00:56:43,238 --> 00:56:46,798
Speaker 1: the players, the way they accommodated us, the way they

1193
00:56:46,838 --> 00:56:50,118
Speaker 1: made themselves available in game interviews.

1194
00:56:50,438 --> 00:56:52,518
Speaker 2: You know, Tory Lebelo doing that with me each and

1195
00:56:52,598 --> 00:56:53,078
Speaker 2: every game.

1196
00:56:53,678 --> 00:56:55,518
Speaker 1: It was funny that one game, when they were down

1197
00:56:55,598 --> 00:56:58,518
Speaker 1: ten to nothing, I took a pass, a hard pass.

1198
00:56:58,598 --> 00:57:00,558
Speaker 1: I'm talking to the manager at that point in game,

1199
00:57:01,238 --> 00:57:03,838
Speaker 1: and Tory complimented me the next day from my court awareness,

1200
00:57:04,878 --> 00:57:08,878
Speaker 1: that was interesting. But yeah, it's just on a personal level,

1201
00:57:08,878 --> 00:57:11,478
Speaker 1: I'll have to thank both these teams. The pr staffs

1202
00:57:11,518 --> 00:57:18,598
Speaker 1: were just amazing. Just from a logistical and cooperation point

1203
00:57:18,638 --> 00:57:21,838
Speaker 1: of view. These teams were off the charts, and you know,

1204
00:57:21,958 --> 00:57:24,998
Speaker 1: despite ratings, I think it was a good show for baseball.

1205
00:57:25,078 --> 00:57:27,478
Speaker 2: Listen, we always want seven games, but think about this.

1206
00:57:28,478 --> 00:57:32,158
Speaker 1: This was the first World Series played under these new rules,

1207
00:57:32,238 --> 00:57:35,718
Speaker 1: the first World Series played with a pitch timer, and

1208
00:57:35,878 --> 00:57:39,158
Speaker 1: how often did you hear the pitch timer mentioned? Almost

1209
00:57:39,358 --> 00:57:44,238
Speaker 1: never it succeeded, It faded into the background. We had

1210
00:57:44,278 --> 00:57:47,878
Speaker 1: our first World Series game after thirty seven straight games

1211
00:57:47,958 --> 00:57:51,558
Speaker 1: going three hours or more, that was played under three hours.

1212
00:57:51,598 --> 00:57:54,958
Speaker 1: I think the pace was good and the best part

1213
00:57:55,118 --> 00:57:57,078
Speaker 1: was it did fade into the background. It did not

1214
00:57:57,318 --> 00:58:02,038
Speaker 1: affect play or players whatsoever. So this new world order

1215
00:58:02,118 --> 00:58:05,598
Speaker 1: that we have with the pitch timer, folks, it's established.

1216
00:58:05,638 --> 00:58:07,598
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of rumlings, Hey, you got

1217
00:58:07,638 --> 00:58:09,878
Speaker 1: to give these players more time in the postseason.

1218
00:58:09,958 --> 00:58:11,718
Speaker 2: No you don't. It's a good thing.

1219
00:58:11,798 --> 00:58:13,678
Speaker 1: There's no reason to go back from where we are

1220
00:58:13,798 --> 00:58:18,078
Speaker 1: right now. We continue to move forward. So ratings aside,

1221
00:58:18,318 --> 00:58:20,278
Speaker 1: I thought it was a good showcase for Major League

1222
00:58:20,278 --> 00:58:23,398
Speaker 1: Baseball and sort of this new generation that we're entering.

1223
00:58:23,478 --> 00:58:25,758
Speaker 3: Now that's a good point. I mean, I do love

1224
00:58:25,838 --> 00:58:28,038
Speaker 3: the pace clock. I think that's the superstar. Like I've

1225
00:58:28,038 --> 00:58:32,198
Speaker 3: said before, I think that's awesome. And then the assistant

1226
00:58:32,758 --> 00:58:36,198
Speaker 3: to the superstar pace clock would be the PitchCom device.

1227
00:58:36,758 --> 00:58:39,878
Speaker 3: Those two items, to me are the real winners with

1228
00:58:40,038 --> 00:58:42,598
Speaker 3: all of this. I know stolen bases are up based

1229
00:58:42,598 --> 00:58:44,198
Speaker 3: on the number of throw overs the first base, I

1230
00:58:44,318 --> 00:58:47,398
Speaker 3: think my opinion, but the pace of the game being

1231
00:58:47,478 --> 00:58:50,798
Speaker 3: what it is right now, I would take away that

1232
00:58:51,278 --> 00:58:53,758
Speaker 3: the throwover rule of the first base. I would eliminate

1233
00:58:53,838 --> 00:58:58,598
Speaker 3: that you already got the bigger bases. You've already constructed

1234
00:58:58,638 --> 00:59:00,598
Speaker 3: a method to bring the time of the game down

1235
00:59:00,998 --> 00:59:04,398
Speaker 3: towards more palatable and we all agree with that. Let's

1236
00:59:04,478 --> 00:59:08,038
Speaker 3: just let the runner at first the pitcher to be

1237
00:59:08,038 --> 00:59:10,358
Speaker 3: able to control the runner first space like he normally

1238
00:59:10,398 --> 00:59:13,918
Speaker 3: had in the past. And I'm still still not a

1239
00:59:13,998 --> 00:59:16,398
Speaker 3: fan of the three reliever rule, three hitter rule for

1240
00:59:16,438 --> 00:59:19,358
Speaker 3: the relievers, and you talk about matching up, it makes

1241
00:59:19,398 --> 00:59:22,678
Speaker 3: it much more difficult. And that also speaks or screams

1242
00:59:22,718 --> 00:59:26,398
Speaker 3: to the offseason acquisition pitching wise, getting more neutral relievers

1243
00:59:26,438 --> 00:59:29,398
Speaker 3: guys they handle both sides of the plate. And eventually

1244
00:59:29,958 --> 00:59:33,678
Speaker 3: there was no but never really wasn't profound. But runner

1245
00:59:33,718 --> 00:59:36,318
Speaker 3: at second base, I mean to me, all of these

1246
00:59:36,438 --> 00:59:39,838
Speaker 3: rules were made I think to impact or effect the

1247
00:59:39,918 --> 00:59:42,678
Speaker 3: speed or the pace of the game. That's been taken

1248
00:59:42,718 --> 00:59:45,078
Speaker 3: care of, what the clock and now with the pitch

1249
00:59:45,158 --> 00:59:47,278
Speaker 3: comp so I would just I would reconsider some of

1250
00:59:47,318 --> 00:59:48,478
Speaker 3: the other things. That's my opinion.

1251
00:59:48,878 --> 00:59:49,558
Speaker 2: I respect that.

1252
00:59:50,358 --> 00:59:52,278
Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to change the rules because

1253
00:59:52,318 --> 00:59:54,718
Speaker 1: they like where it's appen. I respect the opinion, and

1254
00:59:55,078 --> 00:59:57,118
Speaker 1: as I always like to say, Joe, this is the

1255
00:59:57,198 --> 01:00:01,958
Speaker 1: most interesting baseball podcast anywhere. You're hearing Joe Madden, three

1256
01:00:02,038 --> 01:00:04,638
Speaker 1: time manager of the Year, World Series win with the Cubs,

1257
01:00:04,998 --> 01:00:06,878
Speaker 1: give you an insight on what's going on in the dugout.

1258
01:00:07,158 --> 01:00:09,518
Speaker 1: I'm down there, literally in the dugout, giving you stuff

1259
01:00:09,558 --> 01:00:12,038
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. You're not gonna find this stuff anywhere else.

1260
01:00:12,118 --> 01:00:15,038
Speaker 1: So if you stick around with us throughout this postseason here,

1261
01:00:16,238 --> 01:00:18,638
Speaker 1: we'll probably get on some Texas Rangers here to talk

1262
01:00:18,678 --> 01:00:20,518
Speaker 1: about their view of their championship.

1263
01:00:20,998 --> 01:00:21,718
Speaker 2: You've got the show.

1264
01:00:21,758 --> 01:00:25,638
Speaker 1: Hey Otani free agency sweepstakes. Who better to talk about

1265
01:00:25,678 --> 01:00:28,838
Speaker 1: that than one of his managers. Joe Madden will be

1266
01:00:28,918 --> 01:00:33,278
Speaker 1: all over that and everything else that happens, managerial changes, trades.

1267
01:00:34,718 --> 01:00:37,918
Speaker 1: For US, seasons not over. It's kind of restarting again

1268
01:00:38,158 --> 01:00:41,478
Speaker 1: in a new and different way. So in the meantime,

1269
01:00:41,558 --> 01:00:43,758
Speaker 1: that's a lot to look forward to. But for now,

1270
01:00:44,158 --> 01:00:48,118
Speaker 1: we've got our closer our Josh Spores to close it out,

1271
01:00:48,238 --> 01:00:49,718
Speaker 1: World Series Edition, Joe.

1272
01:00:49,638 --> 01:00:52,758
Speaker 3: Madden, what do you got that's got multiple innings today?

1273
01:00:52,758 --> 01:00:54,398
Speaker 3: But if I'm going to go multiple innings, then I

1274
01:00:54,478 --> 01:00:55,878
Speaker 3: have to I'll give you two, all right?

1275
01:00:55,958 --> 01:00:56,478
Speaker 2: I love it?

1276
01:00:56,558 --> 01:00:59,038
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'm like beating my brains out here. I

1277
01:00:59,078 --> 01:01:00,798
Speaker 3: don't think I've used these yet. I'm I'm pretty sure

1278
01:01:00,798 --> 01:01:03,598
Speaker 3: i'm not, and if I have, please, but I think

1279
01:01:03,598 --> 01:01:07,638
Speaker 3: they're made. And I love this from Michael Langelo, the

1280
01:01:07,718 --> 01:01:10,038
Speaker 3: both art and this one was like one of my paintings.

1281
01:01:10,078 --> 01:01:12,918
Speaker 3: But a man paints with his brains, not with his hands,

1282
01:01:13,998 --> 01:01:15,558
Speaker 3: you know. I love that. I mean, whether you talk

1283
01:01:15,598 --> 01:01:18,438
Speaker 3: about playing the game itself, the fact that you get

1284
01:01:18,438 --> 01:01:19,838
Speaker 3: out of your own head and you just play the

1285
01:01:19,918 --> 01:01:22,558
Speaker 3: game and you see what's in front of you and

1286
01:01:22,638 --> 01:01:26,718
Speaker 3: you react to it. So it's all about this strong

1287
01:01:26,838 --> 01:01:30,118
Speaker 3: mental method that we employ, and that's the difference between

1288
01:01:30,198 --> 01:01:34,078
Speaker 3: success or non success. And then genius is eternal patience.

1289
01:01:35,438 --> 01:01:37,358
Speaker 3: And again I really dig on that because you talk

1290
01:01:37,398 --> 01:01:42,278
Speaker 3: about the organizations like these two getting their butts kicked

1291
01:01:42,318 --> 01:01:43,838
Speaker 3: last year and all of a sudden they find themselves

1292
01:01:43,838 --> 01:01:46,158
Speaker 3: playing the last game of the year. There's a patient

1293
01:01:46,238 --> 01:01:48,398
Speaker 3: component to that that you have to really believe in

1294
01:01:48,478 --> 01:01:50,678
Speaker 3: what you're doing and see it all the way through.

1295
01:01:50,958 --> 01:01:54,758
Speaker 3: So Michaelangelo, one of my favorites, just to be eighty

1296
01:01:54,878 --> 01:01:57,038
Speaker 3: nine years of age. Back in the day in a

1297
01:01:57,078 --> 01:02:01,318
Speaker 3: Renaissance period. God, there wasn't that many great specialist doctors

1298
01:02:01,358 --> 01:02:03,958
Speaker 3: around it that time. I wonder what he ate and

1299
01:02:03,958 --> 01:02:06,198
Speaker 3: he's always walking up and down scaffolds. That had to

1300
01:02:06,278 --> 01:02:07,478
Speaker 3: be good for his health too.

1301
01:02:07,718 --> 01:02:11,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you mentioned that patience there, it kind of

1302
01:02:11,678 --> 01:02:14,158
Speaker 1: blew me away. After the game, I spoke with Mike

1303
01:02:14,198 --> 01:02:16,078
Speaker 1: Maddox on the field. This is a guy who's been

1304
01:02:16,518 --> 01:02:20,558
Speaker 1: in professional baseball for forty two years and this was

1305
01:02:20,638 --> 01:02:24,998
Speaker 1: the first time he won the World Series, and I

1306
01:02:25,038 --> 01:02:26,998
Speaker 1: asked him what it meant to him, and he literally

1307
01:02:27,078 --> 01:02:29,398
Speaker 1: got choked up and he got very emotional about it.

1308
01:02:29,598 --> 01:02:33,238
Speaker 1: This is as experienced and hard bitten a professional pitching

1309
01:02:33,278 --> 01:02:34,398
Speaker 1: coaches he'll ever find.

1310
01:02:34,878 --> 01:02:36,998
Speaker 2: There's nothing like it, Joe. You've been there. You know

1311
01:02:37,038 --> 01:02:38,798
Speaker 2: what it feels like to work your whole life to

1312
01:02:38,878 --> 01:02:39,238
Speaker 2: get there.

1313
01:02:40,478 --> 01:02:42,998
Speaker 1: Some never get there, some get there and don't win,

1314
01:02:43,758 --> 01:02:46,398
Speaker 1: and the very lucky ones get there and actually win it.

1315
01:02:46,878 --> 01:02:49,598
Speaker 1: And you have felt it. I saw it in the

1316
01:02:49,718 --> 01:02:54,398
Speaker 1: eyes of Mike Mannix. I saw Marcus Simeon crying in

1317
01:02:54,478 --> 01:02:57,198
Speaker 1: the arms of his father after the game. There's nothing

1318
01:02:57,318 --> 01:02:58,958
Speaker 1: like it, folks. I mean, we get to watch it

1319
01:02:59,078 --> 01:03:01,878
Speaker 1: every year, but those who actually participate in there and

1320
01:03:02,078 --> 01:03:03,278
Speaker 1: come out on the right side of it.

1321
01:03:03,918 --> 01:03:05,518
Speaker 2: It's just nothing like it. And I'm sure, Joe, it's

1322
01:03:05,558 --> 01:03:06,518
Speaker 2: a feeling that never ends.

1323
01:03:07,118 --> 01:03:10,718
Speaker 3: May all your surrealisms come true. That's what you just

1324
01:03:10,798 --> 01:03:13,958
Speaker 3: talked about. It's nothing like it. I tried like a

1325
01:03:14,038 --> 01:03:17,638
Speaker 3: baby too. Every time it's two winters, one loser. But

1326
01:03:18,278 --> 01:03:21,398
Speaker 3: it's so emotional and all the work you put in

1327
01:03:21,998 --> 01:03:24,478
Speaker 3: through your entire life to get there you think about

1328
01:03:24,518 --> 01:03:26,558
Speaker 3: in a nanosecond and it's very powerful.

1329
01:03:26,918 --> 01:03:32,038
Speaker 1: Congratulations Texas Rangers, your twenty twenty three World Series champions.

1330
01:03:32,118 --> 01:03:35,078
Speaker 2: Well earned, guys, and thanks to you, Joe. This has

1331
01:03:35,118 --> 01:03:35,518
Speaker 2: been fun.

1332
01:03:35,798 --> 01:03:37,718
Speaker 3: Nicely done Tommy, Thanks Budy. I appreciate it.

1333
01:03:45,998 --> 01:03:49,158
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1334
01:03:49,438 --> 01:03:54,238
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1335
01:03:54,518 --> 01:03:56,278
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.