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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there and welcome back to the Book.

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Speaker 2: Of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci and of course

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Speaker 2: Joe Maddon.

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Speaker 1: Joe, how are you doing today.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Tommy.

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Speaker 4: Just got back from a Tunnel to Towers event in Chicago,

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Speaker 4: more specifically Saint Charles, which is almost like driving to Iowa,

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Speaker 4: which you leave Chicago. But anyway, great little town, great

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Speaker 4: golf course, wonderful, wonderful event. These are so stirring emotionally.

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Speaker 4: After the event, you have a little bit of a dinner.

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Speaker 4: Everything's kept on time, but there's a couple speeches made

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Speaker 4: and it's a very emotional time. So these people do

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Speaker 4: a wonderful job Tunnel to Towers while the Joiner kind

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Speaker 4: of spearheads the whole thing Whilelye and I go way back.

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Speaker 3: Of course you did sun him in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 3: I think it was.

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Speaker 4: Anyhow, great event, good times. It just got back last night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, great cause and they do such a great job.

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Speaker 2: And speaking of Chicago, Joe, I wanted to start this

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Speaker 2: week with the story of Kyle Tucker and the Chicago

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Speaker 2: Cubs and when is the right time to sit down.

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Speaker 1: Not just a player, but a superstar player.

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Speaker 2: I mean, in the last five years, Kyle Tucker has

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Speaker 2: a war exceeded only by six other players. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he is an elite player in the game, but he's

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Speaker 2: been going so bad that Craig Counsel felt like he

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Speaker 2: had to sit him down. And as he mentioned, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's physical, there's some mechanical things going on, but it's

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Speaker 2: also mental. You know, you look at Kyle Tucker play

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Speaker 2: and normally he's very even keeled. You know, he's slamming

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Speaker 2: his bat, he's slamming his helmet. There was a ground

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Speaker 2: ball the other day he didn't bother running out. It

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Speaker 2: was hugging the first base line and he just didn't

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Speaker 2: run it out. Really at a frustration, So Craig Council

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Speaker 2: decides when the team is going up against the first

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Speaker 2: place Brewers, that's when he's going to sit Kyle Tucker

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Speaker 2: for what he called a reset. I want to get

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Speaker 2: into what's wrong with Tucker the first year. I want

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Speaker 2: to ask you about when a manager makes that call.

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Speaker 2: Clearly he's reading some bad body language. In addition to

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Speaker 2: the physical side of the game, the time when a

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Speaker 2: manager says, you know, what he or a guy middle

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Speaker 2: of the order hitter, but we need to give you

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Speaker 2: a break.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's ongoing. Obviously, that's been building. First of all,

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Speaker 4: Kyle Tucker's one of my favorite players in the game.

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Speaker 4: Talked about it at the beginning of the year. I said,

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Speaker 4: I take him over Soto. And I know Soto's having

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Speaker 4: a great year and Kyle's not, But I still love

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Speaker 4: this guy and he is all of that. Who knows

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Speaker 4: to what extent that maybe more day games, maybe the

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Speaker 4: Chicago vibe, whatever it might be, just pressing because of money,

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Speaker 4: possibilities next year, all that stuff. But when it comes

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Speaker 4: down to sitting a guy like this, what would bet

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Speaker 4: that there's been some conversation being had in advance of

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Speaker 4: all this. You just don't all of a sudden decide

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Speaker 4: to do that. The different things you've described not running hard,

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Speaker 4: they're slamming things down. I mean, does are all You

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Speaker 4: just asked that guy to come into your office, he said, done.

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Speaker 4: You have a good chat and find out, really what's

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Speaker 4: at the crux of what's bothering you?

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Speaker 3: Why is this?

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Speaker 4: Of course you're not hitting. Of course there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of things that have snowballed whatever, and now all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden, you're doing things you normally don't do, and

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Speaker 4: we just just let's have a conversation about it and

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Speaker 4: just try to get down to, as they say, nitty

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Speaker 4: griddy of why this is occurring, and then you make

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Speaker 4: your choices after that. Yeah, I mean, when a guy

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Speaker 4: needs a break, doesn't matter who you're playing, where, what

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Speaker 4: it looks like from the outside in, you just have

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Speaker 4: to do it. I've often said, and last week we

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Speaker 4: talked about September has its own energy. The other part

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Speaker 4: of it is when a guy runs out of gas.

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Speaker 4: That's why it's so important to give breaks or days

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Speaker 4: off in advance, I believe in today's world of professional sports,

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Speaker 4: because when somebody runs out of fuel, there's no fuel

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Speaker 4: stations along the line in a Major League baseball season.

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Speaker 4: That's why very I'm very, very much aware of the

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Speaker 4: fuel gauge on all these guys. Maybe he's a little

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Speaker 4: bit more fatigued normal, who knows, But there's a reason

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Speaker 4: this guy is that good. He's still one of my favorites.

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Speaker 4: He's going to come back, he's going to be great,

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Speaker 4: He's going to show up. But for right now, if

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Speaker 4: that's what Great Filthy had to do. I understand that,

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Speaker 4: but I'm certain it was conversation in events of this.

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Speaker 1: Move Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: It gets a lot of attention, but I have no

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Speaker 2: problem with these kind of moves, Joe, and I'm with

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Speaker 2: you in terms of where you're at in the schedule.

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Speaker 2: That's incidental to what you must do with a player.

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Speaker 2: It just happened to be that they're playing the Brewers.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to ride through this slump here and say, oh,

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Speaker 2: well wait till you play a lesser team to give

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Speaker 2: you time off. No, I think time is now to

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Speaker 2: do it. And the other thing, Joe is you know

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Speaker 2: a lot of times these things work out for the better.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of times this enables the player

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Speaker 2: to go work in a cage and work on some

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Speaker 2: fundamental things without having to worry about game results, right,

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Speaker 2: and just kind of take that pressure off. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure if you told Kyle Tucker to just completely shut

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Speaker 2: it down. And I know sometimes that happens is you're

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Speaker 2: physically exhausted. They don't even want you to put spikes on,

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Speaker 2: stay out of the cage, whatever. I think this is

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Speaker 2: really a chance to work on his setup and swing.

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Speaker 2: You know, listen, last year they did this with PCA.

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Speaker 2: They gave him a couple of days off. Pete crow Er,

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Speaker 2: I'm strong in Kansas City, Dustin Kelly, the hitting coach,

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Speaker 2: worked on some drills, get on that back leg, a

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Speaker 2: couple of days off. He came back rare and he's

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Speaker 2: been a different hitter since. Michael Harris the second Brian

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Speaker 2: Stinker gave him a day off.

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Speaker 1: He was really really scuffling.

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Speaker 2: He made the adjustment to get his hands back up

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Speaker 2: high where they were originally before he got to the

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Speaker 2: big leagues. He's been on fire since then.

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Speaker 1: And years ago.

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Speaker 2: I saw Kevin Long do that with Curtis Granderson, keep

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Speaker 2: him out of the lineup for two days, get in

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Speaker 2: the cage, work.

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Speaker 1: On some things.

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Speaker 2: And usually when you work on some major things, that's

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Speaker 2: what you do. You give a day or two to

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Speaker 2: work on some things and let them take root.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I see with Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I look at what he's doing, Joe, and

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Speaker 2: just going back to July first, this is the worst

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Speaker 2: thirty eight game stretch of his career. Lowest ops, it's

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Speaker 2: under six hundred. He's never struggled like this. There's one

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Speaker 2: home run in this stretch. There's twenty six rollover.

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Speaker 1: Ground balls to the right side.

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Speaker 2: One out of every five balls he's putting in play

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Speaker 2: is a rollover ground ball to the right side. He

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Speaker 2: has not had a hit to the left center field

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Speaker 2: gap in this entire time. One pole side home run.

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Speaker 2: You know, Kyle jumped to another level as a hit

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Speaker 2: or in my book, when he really learned how to

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Speaker 2: get the ball in the air to the pole side.

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Speaker 2: He's a guy who came up, he had a closed stance,

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Speaker 2: closed stride, and he basically went to a neutral setup,

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Speaker 2: opened up that front hip and get the backside through.

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Speaker 2: And he's just been He's like Sean Green to me,

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Speaker 2: making that adjustment. Well, now, for whatever reason, he is

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Speaker 2: getting on top of the baseball. What I did notice

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Speaker 2: with his swing, and I did a breakdown on this

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Speaker 2: if you want to check it out on YouTube, where

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Speaker 2: he has a steeper attack angle to the baseball. We

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Speaker 2: can measure these things now, but you can also see

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Speaker 2: it as well where he's getting the top of the baseball.

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Speaker 2: As Council told me, he's not as connected in his swing.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at his swing his hands.

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Speaker 2: Are working a little farther away from his core than

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Speaker 2: they were in the past. That's going to make the

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Speaker 2: swing longer, it's going to make it slower. So there

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Speaker 2: are some mechanical things going on here. I wouldn't say,

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Speaker 2: Joe that they're really major. I don't think this is

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Speaker 2: an overhaul the way Kevin Long did with Curtis Granderson.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's Kyle's been such a great hitter, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to overhaul him anyway. But I think these subtle,

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Speaker 2: minor swing changes for Kyle Tucker. I think he's going

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Speaker 2: to get back quickly, and you know, if it takes

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Speaker 2: another day, you know that's up to Tucker and Craig Counsel.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think this is a big deal that

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Speaker 2: he's sitting down. I think it's just a little hiccup here.

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Speaker 1: And I expect that.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it has anything to do with impending

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Speaker 2: free agency. If you know Kyle Tucker at all, man,

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Speaker 2: this guy is he's as steady as she goes up

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Speaker 2: until this thirty eight game stretch. I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: weighing out of his mind at all. I just think

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Speaker 2: he's at this point he's lost the ability to get

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Speaker 2: the ball in the air to pull side, and I

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Speaker 2: think some mechanical tweaks he gets that back.

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Speaker 4: And even though that's what you're seeking, the ball in

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Speaker 4: the air to the pull side. In that ballpark there,

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Speaker 4: you look at the numbers on the wall and you

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Speaker 4: think it's kind of short, But it's when that win

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Speaker 4: blowing in, it's different.

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Speaker 3: It's completely different ballpark. It's actually huge.

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Speaker 4: To what extent the wind's been blowing in this show,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, And to what extent that's had any

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Speaker 4: kind of mental effect on him, I don't know. And

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Speaker 4: you also said his hands are farther away from his body,

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Speaker 4: which again then to me that really normally would be

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Speaker 4: what you would do to really try to get somebody

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Speaker 4: to pull the ball.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it needs to bring him in.

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Speaker 4: When you bring your hands closer to your body, it's

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Speaker 4: easier to stay inside the ball and maybe just start

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Speaker 4: playing for singles up the middle. That's how you get

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Speaker 4: back to solid contact. Again, I don't know. I'm not

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Speaker 4: with the guy, but I believe in him. I think

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Speaker 4: he's that good. He kills lefties. Also, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 4: it's not working right now. You know, elementally the playing

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Speaker 4: outside at Wrigley all the time can be It can

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Speaker 4: be mentally difficult.

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Speaker 3: Ask any of these guys.

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Speaker 4: You show up at the ballpark and those flags are

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Speaker 4: just flapping straight in your face, and it does. It's

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Speaker 4: like hitting off, you know, a long part four with

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Speaker 4: the wind barreling down right right in your chops, and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden your mindset is different. So who

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Speaker 4: knows why all these little different things are occurring. I'm

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Speaker 4: sure it's a be an accumulation of a lot of

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Speaker 4: different smaller things that have become rather large at the moment.

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Speaker 3: So agreed, set him down, reassessed.

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Speaker 4: It's not like reinventing the wheel with the guy like this,

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Speaker 4: it's trying to get back to what he had been

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Speaker 4: doing more than anything that's normally how this thing works out.

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Speaker 4: You bring somebody like this in the cage to work

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Speaker 4: with this guy, I'm looking at video about what he

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Speaker 4: had done in the past and trying to replicate that

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Speaker 4: more than trying to give him anything new. The other

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Speaker 4: part would be drills. I like field drills, drills that

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Speaker 4: I would set up specifically based on what seems to

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Speaker 4: be the issue right here, and just try to get

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Speaker 4: him feeling the components of the swing that had been

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Speaker 4: that's kind of escaping him right now.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a big believer on that.

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Speaker 4: And more than anything, success for a major league player

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Speaker 4: is normally controlled in the mind over the body. So

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Speaker 4: what are you thinking? What is your game plan? What

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Speaker 4: is your approach right now? What are you trying to do?

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Speaker 4: That would be the first thing I would really research.

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Speaker 4: It's like we're in the batter's box. Is that all

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Speaker 4: the same?

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Speaker 3: Good? What does the grip look like? Not unlike a

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Speaker 3: golf How does that look? It's good?

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Speaker 4: If footwear's my front foot landing good. You start from

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Speaker 4: the feet, work your way up, you look at results

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Speaker 4: in your work backwards. That's all you're That's why I

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Speaker 4: would approach this whole thing. But don't expect a dramatically

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Speaker 4: a different looking hitter. That's the worst thing you could

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Speaker 4: possibly do. They'll give him a lot of new stuff

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Speaker 4: to hold on to try to bring back what had

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Speaker 4: been successful in the past.

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Speaker 2: And meanwhile, talking about managers and how they handle their players,

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Speaker 2: Aaron Boone mentioned yesterday that that Aaron Judge, remember he's

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Speaker 2: coming off the il with that flexer strain injury, will

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Speaker 2: not be throwing normally at all this year, and that

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Speaker 2: caught Aaron Judge off guard. He's basically said, you know what,

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Speaker 2: he hasn't even seen me throwing these last two weeks.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why he said that. I think I

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Speaker 2: know why he said that, Joe. I mean, they're really

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Speaker 2: worried that there's one throw where Aaron Judge has to

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Speaker 2: cut it loose and he can blow that thing out.

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Speaker 2: You know, flex restrains. They just don't go away very quickly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can manage it, but I do think

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Speaker 2: there's this fear that they put Judge in right field

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Speaker 2: and the competitiveness of the game takes over and then.

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Speaker 1: You blow out.

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Speaker 2: Yankees obviously cannot afford that to happen, So they're going

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Speaker 2: to proceed cautiously here with Judge as they should continue

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Speaker 2: to run John Carlos Stanton out there in right field,

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Speaker 2: not on an everyday basis, but often and hope that

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Speaker 2: he holds up. We know they're just a monster team

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Speaker 2: when they're both in the lineup, so you try to

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Speaker 2: get that happening as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: Not sure if Judge is going to.

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Speaker 2: Play the outfield at all against Boston this weekend. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't sound like he will. I think they'll proceed slowly.

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Speaker 2: But in the meantime, Aaron Judge just joined Babe Ruth,

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Speaker 2: Lou Garrig and Mickey Mantle as the only Yankees to

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Speaker 2: go four by forty four seasons or more with forty

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Speaker 2: or more home runs. It's the franchise, you protect him.

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Speaker 2: I would do the same thing the Yankees are doing, Joe.

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Speaker 2: I would keep playing like this with Judges the DH,

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Speaker 2: let him go through his throwing progressions, and do not

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Speaker 2: risk anything major for a long time here until you're

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Speaker 2: absolutely sure.

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Speaker 4: That's no question. You just you slow play that one completely.

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Speaker 4: We talked about this, I think previously, and my perspective

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Speaker 4: is that if in fact you think you could even

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Speaker 4: go out there, I would really make adaptations so that

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Speaker 4: the throws aren't as long.

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Speaker 3: I would really really.

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Speaker 4: Try to drill down into him and to not throw

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Speaker 4: the ball at Max's ability at any particular time. Again,

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Speaker 4: just get the ball into the relay guy, get your

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Speaker 4: second basement out there. Chistlm's got a good arm, Get

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Speaker 4: him out there fast, get him out there in position.

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Speaker 4: Train him to do that every stink in time, even

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Speaker 4: to the point, like I just say he's going to

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Speaker 4: the right center field gap. Just say, and the center

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Speaker 4: fielder's coming by. Just flipped the ball the centerfielder and

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Speaker 4: have him throw the ball in harder. I know this

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Speaker 4: is like antithetical to an athlete like judge, but in

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Speaker 4: order to keep him in a lineup, I think these

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Speaker 4: are considerations Number one. Number two. These plays I'm describing

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Speaker 4: don't happen as often as you think. So it's not

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Speaker 4: like he's gonna go out there and he's gonna make

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Speaker 4: ten throws at night. No, there might be one or

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Speaker 4: two significant moments, and you have to really just drill

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Speaker 4: it down and practice. Are we going to do this

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Speaker 4: in this particular time in order to keep the integrity

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Speaker 4: of the lineup if you want standing out there often.

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Speaker 4: I know they're getting away with so far, but I

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Speaker 4: know he had to take a couple of days off

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Speaker 4: because he was too sore.

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Speaker 3: They're hitting home runs like crazy in Tampa. I get it.

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Speaker 3: But that's just one moment in time.

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Speaker 4: So I would be creative right now, I would be creative.

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Speaker 4: I would start implementing all these thoughts. I've put these

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Speaker 4: thoughts in guys heads. I know they're going to probably

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Speaker 4: balk at it in the beginning, But then again, they're

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Speaker 4: wearing pink shoes and peak elbow pass now, so why

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Speaker 4: can't you do something like this?

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Speaker 2: Hey, speaking of the Red Sox, Joe, I got to

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Speaker 2: ask you a question about coaching third base. Red Sox

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Speaker 2: had a frustrating game on Tuesday night. I think they

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Speaker 2: want zero for thirteen runers in scoring position. They had

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Speaker 2: a ton of it bats with the bases loaded, never

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Speaker 2: cashed in. Down one run in the eleventh inning, there

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Speaker 2: is a potential sacrifice fly to tie the game. Flyball

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Speaker 2: medium to shallow center field. Colton Kowser, who's got a

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Speaker 2: really good arm, is out there for Baltimore, and the

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Speaker 2: runner on third is Nate Eaton, who's very he's in

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Speaker 2: the ninety fifth percentile and speed, and the third base

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Speaker 2: coach Kyle Hudson. You know, based off the scouting reports,

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Speaker 2: the depth of the fly ball decides we're not going

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Speaker 2: to run here, and they don't run. Now, listen to

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Speaker 2: throw wound up offline. There's no way of knowing that

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Speaker 2: that's going to happen, right, You're just basing your decision

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Speaker 2: on depth in the outfielder's arm. But how much of

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Speaker 2: that Joe should be a third base coach's call, and

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Speaker 2: how much is that is the base runner saying I

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Speaker 2: can get this or I can't get this. I always

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Speaker 2: find this interesting. I would trust the veteran base runner

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Speaker 2: or do you just go with whatever the coach tells you.

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Speaker 4: It's not only a coach situation. That's how that's how

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Speaker 4: you work at det say train for it. First of all,

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Speaker 4: how many outswhere? There's zero or went out?

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Speaker 2: There was one out with Alex Bregman on deck, and

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Speaker 2: Alex Bregman popped up to end the game right now,

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Speaker 2: went out.

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Speaker 3: Went out. It's a different play.

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Speaker 4: When out I send them, When out I send them

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Speaker 4: zero outs, they don't send them. I think you have

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Speaker 4: That's part of it. Also, you have to put that

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Speaker 4: in the equation mentally regarding whether we're going to send

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Speaker 4: him or not. But one thing that we did try

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Speaker 4: to train for when this is something brought up analytically

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Speaker 4: when I was with the Cubs. That tweet or fly ball,

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Speaker 4: that flyball that you just don't know. It's really no

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Speaker 4: man's land, and it's a very difficult decision for both

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Speaker 4: the base runner and the third base coach. Zero went out,

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Speaker 4: that would be what it comes down to is, of

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Speaker 4: course they're outs. I ain't sending him, especially with Bregman

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Speaker 4: on deck went out, I'm going to take that chance.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to take that opportunity to score the run

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Speaker 4: without having seen it specifically, how deep the ball was,

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Speaker 4: magicing an outfielder's drifting maybe to his ride or his

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Speaker 4: left kind of towards the infield a little bit. That's

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Speaker 4: in my mind's eye. So with one out he goes

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Speaker 4: zero out, I do not send.

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Speaker 2: Him, and the runner can't freelance in that situation you

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Speaker 2: don't want you're even a hobby Bayez or a veteran

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Speaker 2: good base runner, you would not allow the opportunity to say,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know you think I shouldn't go, but

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Speaker 2: I think I can make it, and I'm going.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple. I mean, you're if you're going

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Speaker 4: to talk about hobby, that would be different. But normally

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Speaker 4: what occurs is the ball is hit, runner goes backs

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Speaker 4: and tags up third base. Coach gets close to him

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Speaker 4: enough and you'll see him put his hands over his

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Speaker 4: mouth like a funnel to try to direct the sound

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Speaker 4: right towards the runner and he's yelling go go go

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Speaker 4: or no, no, no, or don't, don't whatever their their

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Speaker 4: burbage is, that's what's being yelled at that particular time. Now,

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Speaker 4: I'm even saying a guy like Covey, if you see,

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Speaker 4: if he hears no, but see something he likes, he's

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Speaker 4: still going to go.

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Speaker 3: He's still going to go. I've seen that happen.

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Speaker 4: But I would say ninety percent of the time, maybe

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Speaker 4: you higher whatever that third base coach is yelling at

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Speaker 4: that runners, what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: You just reminded me of a great play in the

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Speaker 2: seventy five Classic World Series game Red Sox and Reds

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Speaker 2: And I think Zim was a third base coach where

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Speaker 2: Doyle got thrown out of the plate on a short

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Speaker 2: fly ball down the line that George Foster threw home.

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Speaker 2: And I'm pretty sure it was Zim. The third base

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Speaker 2: coach was yelling no, no, no, and Doyle thought he was.

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Speaker 1: Saying go go, go go right, yeah, and got thrown out.

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Speaker 1: That was a huge point in that game.

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Speaker 4: That's why you have to really that's why I kind

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Speaker 4: of like stopped a little bit there. You really have

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Speaker 4: to be clear and this is the things you work on,

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Speaker 4: you work on in spring training. These are the kind

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Speaker 4: of things to me, this is where like the pre

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Speaker 4: meeting is important to go over signs.

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Speaker 3: I mean the one thing I hate it. I mean

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Speaker 3: I would.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty mellow, easy going during the course of a game,

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Speaker 4: but if you're missing signs, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: That is when I really get upset.

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Speaker 4: Like Zim said, if if they're not getting signs, then

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Speaker 4: you're not managing. Zim used to say that to me

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Speaker 4: all the time. And I've had every every stop I've made,

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Speaker 4: you know, the guys that can't get signs and who

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Speaker 4: cannot get signs and you're talking about a verbal right there.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about actual touches from the third base coach whatever.

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Speaker 4: And I would actually have them dumb it down. As

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Speaker 4: an example, when I worked for the Angels, Bobby Kinnop

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Speaker 4: taught me because I had guys that they get on base,

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Speaker 4: whether it's Tony Phillips, Spike going whatever, they get all

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Speaker 4: you know, they're wide eyed and they're just so excited.

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Speaker 4: If they looked at me and they could not see

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Speaker 4: my thumb, they're not going. If they could see my thumb.

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Speaker 4: On either hand, they're going, so that was the thing

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Speaker 4: they would They would just look to me, even at

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Speaker 4: second base if they're not going. In a situation, I

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Speaker 4: put my hands behind my back so Tony could not

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Speaker 4: see my hands at all, or I just put them

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Speaker 4: on my so that you can see my thumbs. Even

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Speaker 4: from second base, you can give a sign like that.

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Speaker 4: So there's all of this going on too. If these guys, gosh,

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Speaker 4: it's so frustrating. But overall, there's not that many signs

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Speaker 4: put on anymore. Although I saw any game yesterday with Cincinnati.

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Speaker 4: They had runners running that the other cruise running twice

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Speaker 4: at first base, and he scored on singles twice yesterday

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Speaker 4: on perfectly placed fly balls into the outfield, kind of

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Speaker 4: like a modified hit and runner run and hit. Anyhow,

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Speaker 4: I'm getting off the topic, but there's the verbal run

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Speaker 4: around second base. They got to be able to yell,

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Speaker 4: and you have to be able to differentiate between yes

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Speaker 4: and no go or not go.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: That is one of the very cool things about this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I can bring up all these game situations and Joe,

434
00:18:47,958 --> 00:18:51,398
Speaker 2: you can go back into your rolodex and you figure

435
00:18:51,398 --> 00:18:53,758
Speaker 2: out the history of it, the reasons behind it. But

436
00:18:53,798 --> 00:18:56,118
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring up something in our next chat

437
00:18:56,158 --> 00:18:58,758
Speaker 2: here that I'm not sure even Joe Madden has seen.

438
00:18:58,558 --> 00:19:00,558
Speaker 1: On a baseball field that happened this week.

439
00:19:00,718 --> 00:19:02,478
Speaker 2: We're going to dive into that and we're gonna ask

440
00:19:02,558 --> 00:19:06,318
Speaker 2: the question, what really does win in October. We'll do

441
00:19:06,398 --> 00:19:18,838
Speaker 2: that right after this on the Book of Joe.

442
00:19:20,478 --> 00:19:23,038
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe and Joe.

443
00:19:23,038 --> 00:19:27,598
Speaker 2: This happened in San Diego where there was fan interference

444
00:19:27,678 --> 00:19:30,358
Speaker 2: in which the fan did not touch the ball. This

445
00:19:30,558 --> 00:19:33,238
Speaker 2: was a fly ball hit I think was Xander Bogart's.

446
00:19:33,958 --> 00:19:36,678
Speaker 2: Elliott Ramos of the Giants goes back to the wall,

447
00:19:37,438 --> 00:19:41,238
Speaker 2: jumps it goes off his glove into the stands rule

448
00:19:41,318 --> 00:19:46,238
Speaker 2: the home run, but upon review it is determined it's

449
00:19:46,278 --> 00:19:48,758
Speaker 2: an out. The Giants are giving the out runner is

450
00:19:48,838 --> 00:19:53,278
Speaker 2: off the board because the fan interfered with Ramos's ability

451
00:19:53,558 --> 00:19:55,958
Speaker 2: to catch the ball. Now Mike Shild goes out there.

452
00:19:56,158 --> 00:19:58,798
Speaker 2: He argues, I mean you almost have to as a manager,

453
00:19:58,878 --> 00:20:00,438
Speaker 2: right you had a run taken off the board in

454
00:20:00,438 --> 00:20:02,918
Speaker 2: front of your home crowd and he gets thrown out

455
00:20:02,918 --> 00:20:03,318
Speaker 2: of the game.

456
00:20:03,518 --> 00:20:05,558
Speaker 1: But I think they got this right, Joe.

457
00:20:05,598 --> 00:20:08,998
Speaker 2: There's nothing in the rule book that says that a

458
00:20:09,078 --> 00:20:12,838
Speaker 2: fan has to make contact with either the player or

459
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:16,038
Speaker 2: the baseball. The key here is did the fan reach

460
00:20:16,238 --> 00:20:20,438
Speaker 2: into the field and the play to prevent or distract

461
00:20:20,638 --> 00:20:23,118
Speaker 2: or harm the fielder's ability to make the play. And

462
00:20:23,158 --> 00:20:25,598
Speaker 2: the answer here is yes, that the fan did reach

463
00:20:25,798 --> 00:20:28,758
Speaker 2: over it. If that ball is in the stands, all

464
00:20:28,758 --> 00:20:31,758
Speaker 2: bets are off. As a fielder, you know, you just

465
00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:35,198
Speaker 2: have to deal with it. But once that fan reached

466
00:20:35,398 --> 00:20:39,318
Speaker 2: over the fence and his arms looked like they were

467
00:20:39,358 --> 00:20:41,918
Speaker 2: in the eye line of Ramos as he's reaching for

468
00:20:41,958 --> 00:20:44,318
Speaker 2: the ball, I think by the letter of the rule,

469
00:20:44,438 --> 00:20:48,238
Speaker 2: the umpires got it right that it was fan interference.

470
00:20:48,358 --> 00:20:50,798
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you've seen that before, Joe, or

471
00:20:50,798 --> 00:20:53,238
Speaker 2: what your opinion was on that, but that was the

472
00:20:53,238 --> 00:20:56,678
Speaker 2: first time I've seen it called where there was zero contact.

473
00:20:56,838 --> 00:20:58,998
Speaker 4: First of all, this this is why I've always felt

474
00:20:59,118 --> 00:21:01,998
Speaker 4: there should be a camera shooting on each fou pole

475
00:21:02,278 --> 00:21:04,518
Speaker 4: along the fence line to determine exs exactly what we're

476
00:21:04,558 --> 00:21:07,838
Speaker 4: talking about. Right there, I think that's where it should begin.

477
00:21:08,838 --> 00:21:10,958
Speaker 4: Like you just kind of insinuated from the angles.

478
00:21:10,998 --> 00:21:11,478
Speaker 3: I saw this.

479
00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:13,278
Speaker 4: Play, by the way, I watched video in the morning

480
00:21:13,278 --> 00:21:16,678
Speaker 4: and I happened to see this one, and I understand

481
00:21:16,678 --> 00:21:18,918
Speaker 4: what you're saying. It almost looked like the hands may

482
00:21:18,958 --> 00:21:21,878
Speaker 4: have interfered with the vision the sideline of the outfield,

483
00:21:21,878 --> 00:21:24,118
Speaker 4: but I couldn't say that for sure based on the angle.

484
00:21:24,398 --> 00:21:26,238
Speaker 4: That was my only concern of I could not tell

485
00:21:26,238 --> 00:21:29,558
Speaker 4: you that for certain. So you know you're taking a

486
00:21:29,558 --> 00:21:32,118
Speaker 4: home run away based on the fact that you think

487
00:21:32,638 --> 00:21:35,078
Speaker 4: that there was interference based on the hands coming out

488
00:21:35,278 --> 00:21:37,198
Speaker 4: and that the outfielder would have caught it. I mean,

489
00:21:37,318 --> 00:21:39,198
Speaker 4: you don't know that the alphare would have caught it regardless.

490
00:21:39,198 --> 00:21:41,798
Speaker 4: We just don't know that. So that's where this gray

491
00:21:41,878 --> 00:21:45,438
Speaker 4: area does exist for me. With a definitive camera angle

492
00:21:45,598 --> 00:21:49,398
Speaker 4: along the outfield fence line and seeing an absolute reach over,

493
00:21:49,918 --> 00:21:52,478
Speaker 4: I can understand that. But if this glove went out

494
00:21:52,838 --> 00:21:55,678
Speaker 4: was over the fence actually and the guys reaching out,

495
00:21:55,718 --> 00:21:57,838
Speaker 4: the fans reaching out, and his hands really aren't extending

496
00:21:58,198 --> 00:21:59,958
Speaker 4: all the way over, then I think that's a different play.

497
00:22:00,238 --> 00:22:02,758
Speaker 4: So yeah, listen, I would have gotten kicked out. There's

498
00:22:02,798 --> 00:22:05,078
Speaker 4: no question out of argetting more vehemently than Shilty did

499
00:22:05,398 --> 00:22:06,358
Speaker 4: all this stuff.

500
00:22:06,038 --> 00:22:08,118
Speaker 3: And I know the empires on the field that had

501
00:22:08,158 --> 00:22:09,318
Speaker 3: nothing to do with it. I get it.

502
00:22:09,558 --> 00:22:12,318
Speaker 4: They actually made the call in favor of San Diego

503
00:22:12,358 --> 00:22:15,038
Speaker 4: before it was overturned. So yeah, this is one of

504
00:22:15,118 --> 00:22:16,718
Speaker 4: those things I think you can be middy you talk

505
00:22:16,718 --> 00:22:19,438
Speaker 4: about tech. This is where technology, to me, really has

506
00:22:19,478 --> 00:22:21,438
Speaker 4: a chance to be very useful. You know the way

507
00:22:21,478 --> 00:22:24,758
Speaker 4: the price of cameras these days not very expensive, but

508
00:22:24,838 --> 00:22:26,878
Speaker 4: I would start right there. I think that really screams

509
00:22:26,918 --> 00:22:29,478
Speaker 4: to have cameras in place to determine.

510
00:22:29,758 --> 00:22:31,438
Speaker 3: And it's not over the entire ballpark.

511
00:22:31,438 --> 00:22:33,758
Speaker 4: There's parts of the outfield where there's no fans that

512
00:22:34,278 --> 00:22:37,278
Speaker 4: it's impossible to reach over. And Chicago's got it right

513
00:22:37,318 --> 00:22:39,718
Speaker 4: with the basket. Man, You can't the fans can't reach

514
00:22:39,718 --> 00:22:40,478
Speaker 4: over the basket.

515
00:22:40,518 --> 00:22:40,718
Speaker 3: You know.

516
00:22:41,038 --> 00:22:42,878
Speaker 4: I've always thought that should have been put in play

517
00:22:42,878 --> 00:22:43,678
Speaker 4: in Anaheim with.

518
00:22:43,598 --> 00:22:46,078
Speaker 3: The high wall. Anyhow, long long answer.

519
00:22:46,398 --> 00:22:48,398
Speaker 4: I get what you're saying, but I can't say for

520
00:22:48,638 --> 00:22:51,358
Speaker 4: sure that there was interference based on the angle that

521
00:22:51,398 --> 00:22:51,758
Speaker 4: I saw.

522
00:22:52,158 --> 00:22:54,598
Speaker 2: I love the basket in Chicago, and I know you

523
00:22:54,638 --> 00:22:57,518
Speaker 2: do too, because that gave Hobby Baiaz his home run

524
00:22:57,518 --> 00:22:58,638
Speaker 2: against the Giants.

525
00:22:58,318 --> 00:23:01,518
Speaker 1: And maybe one nothing game.

526
00:23:01,718 --> 00:23:03,358
Speaker 2: A lot of fans might be asking why the heck

527
00:23:03,398 --> 00:23:05,958
Speaker 2: is that basket there? Because that is the only place

528
00:23:05,998 --> 00:23:08,998
Speaker 2: in Major League Baseball where you can hit a ball

529
00:23:09,038 --> 00:23:12,758
Speaker 2: that doesn't leave the park and it's a home run automatically.

530
00:23:13,198 --> 00:23:15,758
Speaker 2: That dates back to the bleacher bums, which became a

531
00:23:15,798 --> 00:23:19,518
Speaker 2: thing at Wrigley in sixty eight and sixty nine, where

532
00:23:19,518 --> 00:23:21,718
Speaker 2: it became a cool thing to hang out there in

533
00:23:21,758 --> 00:23:24,958
Speaker 2: the bleachers and watch the game. And they used to

534
00:23:24,998 --> 00:23:26,958
Speaker 2: put their beverages on the top of the wall, and

535
00:23:27,358 --> 00:23:30,638
Speaker 2: sometimes the beverages would fall over, and sometimes the people

536
00:23:30,718 --> 00:23:33,638
Speaker 2: who were drinking the beverages fell over. And they got

537
00:23:33,678 --> 00:23:35,918
Speaker 2: tired of things falling on the field, so they literally

538
00:23:35,918 --> 00:23:39,278
Speaker 2: put that basket in to keep beverages and people from

539
00:23:39,358 --> 00:23:40,478
Speaker 2: falling onto the field.

540
00:23:40,638 --> 00:23:42,638
Speaker 1: And it's one of the great quirks of that ballpark.

541
00:23:42,838 --> 00:23:43,798
Speaker 1: I know you enjoy it.

542
00:23:43,878 --> 00:23:44,318
Speaker 3: I love it.

543
00:23:44,398 --> 00:23:47,758
Speaker 4: I mean, there's nothing to not like about Wrigley Field,

544
00:23:48,038 --> 00:23:51,638
Speaker 4: all that stuff, even the ivy. You'd get frustrated when

545
00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:53,278
Speaker 4: the ball would go on the ivy. You know your

546
00:23:53,358 --> 00:23:54,838
Speaker 4: running would score, but all of a sudden, it's a

547
00:23:54,838 --> 00:23:56,718
Speaker 4: ground roll double. The guy's got to go back.

548
00:23:56,558 --> 00:23:57,238
Speaker 3: To third base.

549
00:23:57,478 --> 00:24:00,758
Speaker 4: You live with it, right the basket, it just barely

550
00:24:00,838 --> 00:24:04,038
Speaker 4: crawls into that basket. Works for you. Sometimes against you.

551
00:24:04,438 --> 00:24:07,718
Speaker 4: The win is absolutely it's just steaming right into your face.

552
00:24:07,758 --> 00:24:10,078
Speaker 4: The flag is just like starts towards own plate.

553
00:24:10,398 --> 00:24:10,878
Speaker 3: Live with it.

554
00:24:10,878 --> 00:24:13,598
Speaker 4: There's nothing you can do about it. The fans on

555
00:24:13,638 --> 00:24:15,878
Speaker 4: a nightly basis is a frat party. I felt like

556
00:24:15,918 --> 00:24:18,198
Speaker 4: I was in Zata said. Every night you show at

557
00:24:18,238 --> 00:24:20,238
Speaker 4: a ballpark there, it's like a big old frat party.

558
00:24:20,478 --> 00:24:22,678
Speaker 4: There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it. There's no

559
00:24:23,278 --> 00:24:25,238
Speaker 4: venue anywhere like it. And on top of that, the

560
00:24:25,278 --> 00:24:28,318
Speaker 4: Cubs have done a wonderful job of recreating this old

561
00:24:28,318 --> 00:24:30,798
Speaker 4: into the new. It's a retro, it's a resto mode.

562
00:24:30,838 --> 00:24:33,438
Speaker 4: It's an old fifty six spell air brought back to

563
00:24:33,518 --> 00:24:36,198
Speaker 4: life with all the modern conveniences, with great air conditioning,

564
00:24:36,278 --> 00:24:39,198
Speaker 4: a great stereo system three P fifty with fill Injackson,

565
00:24:39,238 --> 00:24:41,678
Speaker 4: great disc brakes, et cetera. They've done all that For

566
00:24:41,718 --> 00:24:43,878
Speaker 4: those that have never attended a game at Wrigley Field,

567
00:24:43,918 --> 00:24:46,878
Speaker 4: that should be on your baseball bucket list because there's

568
00:24:46,998 --> 00:24:47,718
Speaker 4: nothing like it.

569
00:24:47,838 --> 00:24:51,278
Speaker 2: I asked the question before Joe, what wins in October? Listen,

570
00:24:51,318 --> 00:24:54,398
Speaker 2: we all like to believe, and we do believe, that

571
00:24:54,518 --> 00:24:56,958
Speaker 2: it's small ball. It's putting the ball in play, it's

572
00:24:56,998 --> 00:24:59,558
Speaker 2: running the bases, it's catching the ball when it's hit.

573
00:24:59,678 --> 00:25:02,878
Speaker 2: All the things the Milwaukee Brewers do really well, right,

574
00:25:02,958 --> 00:25:05,798
Speaker 2: so they look like a good postseason team. I'm here

575
00:25:05,838 --> 00:25:07,718
Speaker 2: to tell you that's not as true as it used

576
00:25:07,718 --> 00:25:09,998
Speaker 2: to be. I'm not saying it's not true. What I'm

577
00:25:10,038 --> 00:25:14,198
Speaker 2: saying is to win in October these days, and I'm

578
00:25:14,198 --> 00:25:16,158
Speaker 2: talking the last five years, you have to hit the

579
00:25:16,238 --> 00:25:18,398
Speaker 2: ball out of the ballpark. And I say that because

580
00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:20,878
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you the Major League, not league, the

581
00:25:20,958 --> 00:25:24,798
Speaker 2: Major League ranks for the last five World champions.

582
00:25:24,518 --> 00:25:29,158
Speaker 1: First, third, fourth, third, third.

583
00:25:29,398 --> 00:25:32,758
Speaker 2: Now going to give you where they ranked in strikeouts

584
00:25:33,158 --> 00:25:42,038
Speaker 2: Imajor League Baseball second, seventeenth, twelfth. I should start with four, four, twenty, second, seventeen,

585
00:25:42,318 --> 00:25:45,598
Speaker 2: and twelve. The correlation between hitting home runs and winning

586
00:25:45,638 --> 00:25:49,718
Speaker 2: World Series much higher in today's game than it is

587
00:25:49,958 --> 00:25:52,798
Speaker 2: in terms of strikeouts. Let me give you another number here.

588
00:25:53,158 --> 00:25:55,078
Speaker 2: We know that you get to the postseason, you're going

589
00:25:55,118 --> 00:25:57,598
Speaker 2: to see better pitching. Batting average is going to go down,

590
00:25:57,678 --> 00:26:00,318
Speaker 2: slugging is going to go down. That was true last year.

591
00:26:00,918 --> 00:26:04,838
Speaker 2: What probably surprises you is that the rate of home

592
00:26:04,918 --> 00:26:08,718
Speaker 2: runs per game in the postseason last year was higher

593
00:26:08,958 --> 00:26:12,238
Speaker 2: than it was in the regular season. Think about that

594
00:26:12,398 --> 00:26:15,598
Speaker 2: the home run rate went up in the postseason last year.

595
00:26:15,998 --> 00:26:19,638
Speaker 2: Here's my theory that hits are so much more difficult

596
00:26:19,638 --> 00:26:23,118
Speaker 2: to come by, which means rallies are so much difficult

597
00:26:23,118 --> 00:26:26,358
Speaker 2: to come by. You must have the ability to change

598
00:26:26,438 --> 00:26:28,718
Speaker 2: the game with a swing or two at some point,

599
00:26:28,798 --> 00:26:30,718
Speaker 2: and if you get somebody on base, those are really

600
00:26:30,758 --> 00:26:33,438
Speaker 2: game changers. This is I think of what the Brewers

601
00:26:33,438 --> 00:26:36,438
Speaker 2: and especially the Padres are facing. No team has won

602
00:26:36,478 --> 00:26:39,958
Speaker 2: the World Series finishing in the back half of home

603
00:26:40,038 --> 00:26:43,878
Speaker 2: runs in Major League Baseball since the twenty fifteen Kansas

604
00:26:43,878 --> 00:26:44,558
Speaker 2: City Royals.

605
00:26:44,878 --> 00:26:46,198
Speaker 1: That's a decade.

606
00:26:46,358 --> 00:26:46,558
Speaker 3: Now.

607
00:26:46,558 --> 00:26:49,158
Speaker 1: Do I want to believe the Brewers and Padres could

608
00:26:49,158 --> 00:26:50,798
Speaker 1: win the World Series? I do believe that. I do

609
00:26:50,878 --> 00:26:51,478
Speaker 1: believe they can.

610
00:26:51,638 --> 00:26:54,278
Speaker 2: I'm giving these numbers because that's the way the game is.

611
00:26:54,798 --> 00:26:58,558
Speaker 2: But we all know what percentages mean. You know that

612
00:26:58,798 --> 00:27:03,078
Speaker 2: it's a likelihood that probably power wins, but that doesn't

613
00:27:03,118 --> 00:27:06,518
Speaker 2: mean absolutely it wins. And I love the way Milwaukee

614
00:27:06,558 --> 00:27:09,758
Speaker 2: Brewers play baseball. Padres are just a fun team to

615
00:27:09,798 --> 00:27:12,718
Speaker 2: watch with their bullpen. But I'm telling you, Joe, you

616
00:27:12,758 --> 00:27:17,038
Speaker 2: have to rethink the way we think of October, because

617
00:27:17,118 --> 00:27:19,478
Speaker 2: I think in today's game, you do need power, and

618
00:27:19,558 --> 00:27:21,918
Speaker 2: I think that's the one thing that could.

619
00:27:21,758 --> 00:27:23,478
Speaker 1: Hold back Milwaukee and San Diego.

620
00:27:23,878 --> 00:27:25,958
Speaker 2: Baseball purists don't want to hear it, but I do

621
00:27:26,038 --> 00:27:29,238
Speaker 2: think the game is so power dependent.

622
00:27:29,318 --> 00:27:31,478
Speaker 1: It actually is almost more important in October.

623
00:27:32,038 --> 00:27:34,278
Speaker 4: I want it all. I want it all. I'm sorry.

624
00:27:34,318 --> 00:27:35,958
Speaker 4: I want guys who hit the ball of the ballpark.

625
00:27:35,998 --> 00:27:37,958
Speaker 4: I want guys to put it in play. You have

626
00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:40,398
Speaker 4: to have different skill sets in different parts of the lineup.

627
00:27:40,718 --> 00:27:42,878
Speaker 4: I want it all. So just going back, I mean,

628
00:27:42,918 --> 00:27:45,838
Speaker 4: the analytics has really contributed to a lot of this.

629
00:27:45,958 --> 00:27:48,678
Speaker 3: I mean, I know you did great research. I'd be curious.

630
00:27:48,838 --> 00:27:51,398
Speaker 4: You know, let's just say previous to twenty fifteen, for me,

631
00:27:51,478 --> 00:27:53,678
Speaker 4: the analytics really came on board. I don't know twenty

632
00:27:54,158 --> 00:27:56,678
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen fourteen, that's when it really got heavy. But

633
00:27:56,718 --> 00:27:59,078
Speaker 4: even before that, i'd say, like with the rays we

634
00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:02,238
Speaker 4: started in two thousand and six to fifteen, it started

635
00:28:02,238 --> 00:28:04,838
Speaker 4: to build up. But I you know, that's the way

636
00:28:04,838 --> 00:28:06,958
Speaker 4: the teams are built to do those things. So I

637
00:28:06,958 --> 00:28:09,558
Speaker 4: think that's part of it. Because the teams have not

638
00:28:09,598 --> 00:28:12,478
Speaker 4: been built on contact, they have not been nurtured to

639
00:28:12,518 --> 00:28:15,118
Speaker 4: do that. They've only been nurtured to not worry about

640
00:28:15,118 --> 00:28:16,878
Speaker 4: striking out hitting the ball out of the ballpark. So

641
00:28:17,278 --> 00:28:20,118
Speaker 4: if that's how your team is built, and of course

642
00:28:20,158 --> 00:28:22,718
Speaker 4: that should be the result regarding who winsor doesn't what

643
00:28:22,758 --> 00:28:25,358
Speaker 4: I would think. So Kansas City being the last team

644
00:28:25,358 --> 00:28:27,118
Speaker 4: to do it, they were built that way and they

645
00:28:27,118 --> 00:28:29,078
Speaker 4: also had that magnificent bullpen too.

646
00:28:29,438 --> 00:28:30,118
Speaker 3: I just I don't know.

647
00:28:30,238 --> 00:28:33,798
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's just the residue of architects.

648
00:28:33,838 --> 00:28:35,998
Speaker 4: I mean, this is how we're going to build our team.

649
00:28:36,358 --> 00:28:38,678
Speaker 4: These are the ingredients we want to have, and thus

650
00:28:39,038 --> 00:28:40,918
Speaker 4: that's going to win that. That would just be the

651
00:28:40,958 --> 00:28:45,198
Speaker 4: way it plays. Whereas analytics may change. And I'm curious

652
00:28:45,198 --> 00:28:49,238
Speaker 4: because analytics is a fluid science. Whatever it's not static

653
00:28:49,318 --> 00:28:51,918
Speaker 4: or they're same, there's always going to be adaptations made

654
00:28:51,958 --> 00:28:52,558
Speaker 4: based on.

655
00:28:52,638 --> 00:28:54,038
Speaker 3: The souper desure what's going on.

656
00:28:54,078 --> 00:28:58,038
Speaker 4: Well, because analytics are basically the group whomever's in charge

657
00:28:58,118 --> 00:29:02,038
Speaker 4: the analytical department, there are cocktails. They apply more weight

658
00:29:02,118 --> 00:29:04,918
Speaker 4: to this or that, and eventually they've build out this

659
00:29:04,918 --> 00:29:07,758
Speaker 4: this model with all these matrices and the matrix season

660
00:29:08,118 --> 00:29:09,798
Speaker 4: and they this is who we are, this is what

661
00:29:09,838 --> 00:29:11,718
Speaker 4: we think, this is what we feel this that we're

662
00:29:11,718 --> 00:29:14,278
Speaker 4: gonna play the game. That's That's basically what it comes

663
00:29:14,278 --> 00:29:16,758
Speaker 4: down to. So there could be like a paradigm shift

664
00:29:16,758 --> 00:29:20,198
Speaker 4: analytically with all of this, if in fact, the Brewers

665
00:29:20,238 --> 00:29:23,398
Speaker 4: do win this year and just say another team jumps

666
00:29:23,398 --> 00:29:24,638
Speaker 4: on the board, and all of a sudden you see

667
00:29:24,678 --> 00:29:25,638
Speaker 4: more of that next year.

668
00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:28,318
Speaker 3: So I think it.

669
00:29:28,398 --> 00:29:31,278
Speaker 4: Is this way because everybody's working off the same sheet

670
00:29:31,318 --> 00:29:34,518
Speaker 4: of music. Everybody believes the same thing. There's only one

671
00:29:34,558 --> 00:29:37,758
Speaker 4: religion anymore, there's no there's no variety in religion. There's

672
00:29:37,758 --> 00:29:41,358
Speaker 4: no there's no variety in what's being taught in school.

673
00:29:41,558 --> 00:29:44,398
Speaker 4: The core curriculum is this. There's no more liberal arts.

674
00:29:44,398 --> 00:29:46,758
Speaker 4: It is this. This is we're gonna teach you this way.

675
00:29:46,838 --> 00:29:48,718
Speaker 4: You believe God, to believe in this, how we're gonna

676
00:29:48,758 --> 00:29:52,518
Speaker 4: do it. So before there was a variety of different

677
00:29:52,798 --> 00:29:54,838
Speaker 4: subjects being taught in school, but right now there is

678
00:29:54,878 --> 00:29:59,638
Speaker 4: not there. There's power pitching, there's power hitting defense. We

679
00:29:59,838 --> 00:30:01,278
Speaker 4: like it, but if it's not there, that's okay. I'd

680
00:30:01,358 --> 00:30:02,518
Speaker 4: rather an offensive player be there.

681
00:30:02,518 --> 00:30:02,878
Speaker 3: Anyway.

682
00:30:03,158 --> 00:30:06,958
Speaker 4: There's all of these absolutes being based on analytical departments

683
00:30:06,958 --> 00:30:09,918
Speaker 4: which really mirror one another. So long answer once again,

684
00:30:09,998 --> 00:30:12,238
Speaker 4: but this is what I think. So I want to

685
00:30:12,278 --> 00:30:15,038
Speaker 4: see the Brewers when this year. I do for the

686
00:30:15,038 --> 00:30:17,358
Speaker 4: reason you're just talking about, and it's the purity the

687
00:30:17,398 --> 00:30:20,798
Speaker 4: baseball purist to me, you know, I concede to that absolutely,

688
00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:25,398
Speaker 4: But once it does occur, and hopefully it does, and

689
00:30:25,438 --> 00:30:27,878
Speaker 4: it hopes a bad method to base any kind of

690
00:30:27,918 --> 00:30:29,758
Speaker 4: an opinion on, but I'd like to see it occur,

691
00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:31,718
Speaker 4: just to try to balance this whole thing out.

692
00:30:31,798 --> 00:30:32,518
Speaker 3: But that's what I think.

693
00:30:32,558 --> 00:30:35,798
Speaker 4: I think it's analytical departments have swayed the way teams

694
00:30:35,838 --> 00:30:36,238
Speaker 4: are built.

695
00:30:36,318 --> 00:30:37,478
Speaker 3: Thus this is what you're getting.

696
00:30:37,718 --> 00:30:39,038
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point, Joe.

697
00:30:39,078 --> 00:30:42,478
Speaker 2: And like you, I you know, I really enjoy watching

698
00:30:42,478 --> 00:30:45,598
Speaker 2: Milwaukee play baseball, and I do think if they are

699
00:30:45,718 --> 00:30:49,838
Speaker 2: rewarded with a World Series championship, I do think it

700
00:30:49,918 --> 00:30:54,478
Speaker 2: will force some teams and some you know, player ops

701
00:30:54,518 --> 00:30:57,438
Speaker 2: presidents to lean in that direction of the way the

702
00:30:57,478 --> 00:30:59,918
Speaker 2: Brewers play baseball. I mean, that's what you need, right

703
00:30:59,998 --> 00:31:01,918
Speaker 2: it is. I don't want to say it's a copycat league.

704
00:31:01,958 --> 00:31:04,758
Speaker 2: It's not, but I think the the game has gone

705
00:31:04,798 --> 00:31:07,678
Speaker 2: with the power. They're seeing that being rewarded in terms

706
00:31:07,718 --> 00:31:08,518
Speaker 2: of the postseason.

707
00:31:09,118 --> 00:31:09,638
Speaker 1: Last year.

708
00:31:09,678 --> 00:31:12,678
Speaker 2: For instance, the percentage of games one without a home

709
00:31:12,758 --> 00:31:16,038
Speaker 2: run was actually lower in the postseason than it was

710
00:31:16,038 --> 00:31:18,438
Speaker 2: in the regular season. Only nine postseason games out of

711
00:31:18,438 --> 00:31:20,758
Speaker 2: forty three last year were one without a home run.

712
00:31:21,078 --> 00:31:23,758
Speaker 2: But I will say this about Milwaukee, Joe. They can

713
00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:26,998
Speaker 2: win a game with their base running, and they have

714
00:31:26,998 --> 00:31:28,798
Speaker 2: many ways to win a game. But and they have

715
00:31:28,838 --> 00:31:30,838
Speaker 2: more power than you think. I'm not trying to sell

716
00:31:30,878 --> 00:31:32,798
Speaker 2: them short like they're the fifteen Royals.

717
00:31:32,998 --> 00:31:35,878
Speaker 1: They're eighteenth in home runs. It's not terrible, but the

718
00:31:35,878 --> 00:31:36,518
Speaker 1: way they run the.

719
00:31:36,518 --> 00:31:38,398
Speaker 2: Bases, there is a reason why they have by far

720
00:31:38,678 --> 00:31:42,878
Speaker 2: the most unearned runs that they've scored this year. Right,

721
00:31:42,918 --> 00:31:47,318
Speaker 2: they're always pressuring the other team, and it's interesting Willi

722
00:31:47,398 --> 00:31:49,798
Speaker 2: Adamas And by the way, I think the Giants talking

723
00:31:49,798 --> 00:31:52,278
Speaker 2: about the Giants, they've doubled down on guys like Adamas

724
00:31:52,278 --> 00:31:54,878
Speaker 2: and Rafael Devers in that ballpark, I think they're.

725
00:31:54,678 --> 00:31:56,118
Speaker 1: Going in the wrong direction, Joe.

726
00:31:56,558 --> 00:31:59,118
Speaker 2: You know, I think they need more Milwaukee Brewers type

727
00:31:59,118 --> 00:32:03,198
Speaker 2: players in that ballpark. But anyway, they asked Willia Damas about,

728
00:32:03,318 --> 00:32:05,758
Speaker 2: you know, going back to Milwaukee this weekend, what it

729
00:32:05,798 --> 00:32:08,278
Speaker 2: is about the Brewers where they're on this You know

730
00:32:08,318 --> 00:32:10,758
Speaker 2: they're the best team in baseball, and he said in

731
00:32:10,838 --> 00:32:14,638
Speaker 2: one word, base running. I thought that was really really

732
00:32:14,718 --> 00:32:17,558
Speaker 2: interesting that Adamis brought that up and he knows the

733
00:32:17,558 --> 00:32:20,718
Speaker 2: culture there, obviously spending many years there. I'm going to

734
00:32:20,798 --> 00:32:24,718
Speaker 2: give you the five best base running teams in baseball, Joe,

735
00:32:24,758 --> 00:32:28,158
Speaker 2: and this is according to stat Cast. Brewers are number one.

736
00:32:28,438 --> 00:32:32,078
Speaker 2: That's not a surprise. Number two is the New York Mets,

737
00:32:32,958 --> 00:32:40,438
Speaker 2: three Boston Red Sox, four Detroit Tigers, and five Arizona Diamondbacks. Obviously,

738
00:32:40,518 --> 00:32:44,918
Speaker 2: all but the Diamondbacks are in playoff position at this point. Now,

739
00:32:44,958 --> 00:32:47,678
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the bottom five base running

740
00:32:48,318 --> 00:32:55,478
Speaker 2: Baltimore Orioles, Minnesota Twins, Colorado Rockies, San Francisco Giants, and

741
00:32:55,518 --> 00:33:00,398
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Pirates, all out of it non contenders. Three of

742
00:33:00,398 --> 00:33:04,198
Speaker 2: the five fired their managers this year. That's not a

743
00:33:04,198 --> 00:33:06,358
Speaker 2: surprise to me, Joe. That we talk a lot about

744
00:33:06,438 --> 00:33:08,558
Speaker 2: home runs, but I know base running near and dear

745
00:33:08,558 --> 00:33:11,878
Speaker 2: to your heart. It has a lot to do with

746
00:33:12,078 --> 00:33:14,318
Speaker 2: how well a team plays. And give credit to the Mets,

747
00:33:14,318 --> 00:33:16,638
Speaker 2: who to me, don't have a lot of team speed.

748
00:33:16,998 --> 00:33:19,878
Speaker 2: They're very successful on there stolen base attempts when they

749
00:33:19,918 --> 00:33:22,038
Speaker 2: do run, and they make really good decisions.

750
00:33:22,078 --> 00:33:24,558
Speaker 4: On the basis team speed is not the main ingredient

751
00:33:24,598 --> 00:33:26,358
Speaker 4: to being a good base running team, not at all.

752
00:33:26,478 --> 00:33:27,158
Speaker 3: You just made me.

753
00:33:27,398 --> 00:33:30,038
Speaker 4: You know, my flashback brain is going all over the place.

754
00:33:30,518 --> 00:33:33,198
Speaker 4: Every Arizona Instruction League, everyone I was in charge of,

755
00:33:33,238 --> 00:33:35,278
Speaker 4: which started I think in nineteen eighty four with the

756
00:33:35,318 --> 00:33:39,278
Speaker 4: Angels at Genauntry Park, Geenuntry Field. I sit them down

757
00:33:39,878 --> 00:33:42,558
Speaker 4: on the right field line of field number two and

758
00:33:42,758 --> 00:33:45,158
Speaker 4: everybody'd be sitting there, including pictures. But when he got

759
00:33:45,158 --> 00:33:47,638
Speaker 4: to the emphasis for the position players, I told him,

760
00:33:47,678 --> 00:33:49,318
Speaker 4: for every one of you guys sitting down here, the

761
00:33:49,398 --> 00:33:51,878
Speaker 4: number one emphasis for all of you guys right here

762
00:33:51,918 --> 00:33:55,598
Speaker 4: at this camp is base running. That's the number one emphasis. Eventually,

763
00:33:55,598 --> 00:33:58,038
Speaker 4: Whitey Herzaw came into existence with the Angels for a

764
00:33:58,078 --> 00:34:00,758
Speaker 4: brief period of time, and Whitey was all over it too.

765
00:34:01,078 --> 00:34:04,198
Speaker 4: But that was the thing we did. We emphasized base running.

766
00:34:04,238 --> 00:34:06,718
Speaker 4: We had meetings before every game every day on the

767
00:34:07,438 --> 00:34:11,398
Speaker 4: right field line of field number three, and we'd have

768
00:34:11,438 --> 00:34:13,758
Speaker 4: Frank Weeberger go up and down inspect their shoes, make

769
00:34:13,798 --> 00:34:15,798
Speaker 4: sure their shoes were clean. But then I would do

770
00:34:15,838 --> 00:34:19,238
Speaker 4: the positive and negatives from the previous day and would

771
00:34:19,318 --> 00:34:21,758
Speaker 4: always center. I would always make sure that I would

772
00:34:21,798 --> 00:34:24,558
Speaker 4: point out both the positive and negative components of are

773
00:34:24,598 --> 00:34:28,358
Speaker 4: base running the previous day. You applay so much pressure

774
00:34:28,718 --> 00:34:32,158
Speaker 4: to the other team mentally, the preparation before the game begins,

775
00:34:32,398 --> 00:34:35,598
Speaker 4: before the series begin is really heavy. When you do that,

776
00:34:35,638 --> 00:34:36,998
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, they're going to start making

777
00:34:37,038 --> 00:34:40,398
Speaker 4: mistakes because they are in a hurry. Based on your

778
00:34:40,478 --> 00:34:42,358
Speaker 4: base running acumen and the fact that you're going to

779
00:34:42,438 --> 00:34:42,758
Speaker 4: push it.

780
00:34:43,118 --> 00:34:44,518
Speaker 3: This stuff doesn't just happen.

781
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:47,518
Speaker 4: You have to have really good base running instructors, and

782
00:34:47,558 --> 00:34:50,558
Speaker 4: you have to really philosophically let the guys know, what

783
00:34:50,598 --> 00:34:51,478
Speaker 4: are we all about here?

784
00:34:51,518 --> 00:34:53,558
Speaker 3: We were about going first. We're about heart.

785
00:34:53,598 --> 00:34:56,918
Speaker 4: Running hard to first base respect ninety heart cuts it

786
00:34:56,998 --> 00:34:59,398
Speaker 4: first base, not turns. We wanted at the inside of

787
00:34:59,438 --> 00:35:02,198
Speaker 4: the bag. We wanted to snap our head, gut ourselves

788
00:35:02,198 --> 00:35:05,438
Speaker 4: going to that next directions as we possibly can. It

789
00:35:05,518 --> 00:35:07,038
Speaker 4: was never a single. It was always a double to

790
00:35:07,158 --> 00:35:09,678
Speaker 4: the outfielder. Made it a single and you're on second base.

791
00:35:09,718 --> 00:35:12,238
Speaker 4: I wanted them to run through third base expecting to

792
00:35:12,278 --> 00:35:13,598
Speaker 4: go and not expecting to stop.

793
00:35:13,638 --> 00:35:14,198
Speaker 3: Things like this.

794
00:35:14,558 --> 00:35:17,438
Speaker 4: First to third was the ruler that was the king,

795
00:35:17,518 --> 00:35:20,118
Speaker 4: that was the reason you're on first base is to

796
00:35:20,198 --> 00:35:22,878
Speaker 4: get the third base. And finally, we wanted to get

797
00:35:22,878 --> 00:35:25,158
Speaker 4: the third base with less two out, less than two

798
00:35:25,158 --> 00:35:27,398
Speaker 4: outs as often as possible. I don't know how many

799
00:35:27,478 --> 00:35:29,398
Speaker 4: times I said that to the guys, so that we

800
00:35:29,398 --> 00:35:30,078
Speaker 4: could score.

801
00:35:29,878 --> 00:35:30,318
Speaker 3: On and out.

802
00:35:30,398 --> 00:35:33,158
Speaker 4: All these things have to be highlighted to really get

803
00:35:33,198 --> 00:35:35,198
Speaker 4: your guys to get to the point where they're going

804
00:35:35,278 --> 00:35:37,718
Speaker 4: to be such a pain in the butt to the

805
00:35:37,478 --> 00:35:40,318
Speaker 4: other side. Next point on that enugh tenant you just

806
00:35:40,318 --> 00:35:42,838
Speaker 4: had said earlier about the power, is it easier? Isn't

807
00:35:42,838 --> 00:35:45,758
Speaker 4: it easier to buy contact over buying power, or is

808
00:35:45,798 --> 00:35:48,118
Speaker 4: it easier to buy power over contact? In other words,

809
00:35:48,118 --> 00:35:50,158
Speaker 4: if I'm a team that doesn't have this huge payroll,

810
00:35:50,358 --> 00:35:52,278
Speaker 4: why I'm out there trying to buy power all the

811
00:35:52,318 --> 00:35:55,518
Speaker 4: time when I don't have the money to buy power.

812
00:35:55,758 --> 00:35:58,558
Speaker 4: If I could somehow acquire it through the free agency,

813
00:35:58,958 --> 00:36:01,118
Speaker 4: or once in a while maybe actually trade for one

814
00:36:01,118 --> 00:36:04,078
Speaker 4: of those guys which people just don't give up, it

815
00:36:04,158 --> 00:36:06,998
Speaker 4: easier to accumulate contact overpower. These are the things that

816
00:36:07,038 --> 00:36:10,118
Speaker 4: I've often thought about, and I told theo Epstein with

817
00:36:10,198 --> 00:36:12,238
Speaker 4: the Cubbies, I don't know there was like a bunch.

818
00:36:12,358 --> 00:36:14,478
Speaker 3: Like even at one point forty draft choices.

819
00:36:14,518 --> 00:36:16,678
Speaker 4: I think in the draft that says, why not between

820
00:36:16,718 --> 00:36:19,558
Speaker 4: thirty and forty, just pick guys that could really really run.

821
00:36:19,958 --> 00:36:22,398
Speaker 4: I mean, have our scouts just really zero in on

822
00:36:22,678 --> 00:36:26,398
Speaker 4: like all the old Kansas City Royals Academy premise of athletes.

823
00:36:26,678 --> 00:36:30,598
Speaker 4: Just get guys that could run. For ten picks that Gore.

824
00:36:30,638 --> 00:36:33,718
Speaker 4: We picked up Terrence Score, I had Quentin Barry. We

825
00:36:33,718 --> 00:36:36,518
Speaker 4: always picked up somebody when it comes to the playoffs,

826
00:36:36,518 --> 00:36:38,558
Speaker 4: a guy that you know to pinch run for your

827
00:36:38,558 --> 00:36:41,078
Speaker 4: catch or whatever, that could absolutely steal a bag and

828
00:36:41,118 --> 00:36:44,518
Speaker 4: what that meant to late inning rallies. It's still it's important.

829
00:36:44,878 --> 00:36:47,958
Speaker 4: But I kudos to the groups that understand that and

830
00:36:48,038 --> 00:36:50,158
Speaker 4: to those that do not. They need to hire a

831
00:36:50,198 --> 00:36:53,358
Speaker 4: really good base running department and coaching staff because you

832
00:36:53,358 --> 00:36:55,318
Speaker 4: could teach anybody to run the base as well.

833
00:36:55,318 --> 00:36:56,518
Speaker 3: They don't have to be fast.

834
00:36:56,598 --> 00:36:59,358
Speaker 1: A couple of really good points you made there, Joe One.

835
00:36:59,438 --> 00:37:02,238
Speaker 2: I do believe you're absolutely right that base running must

836
00:37:02,358 --> 00:37:06,558
Speaker 2: be emphasized, really be done well. You cannot take it

837
00:37:06,598 --> 00:37:08,118
Speaker 2: for granted that players are just going to do it

838
00:37:08,198 --> 00:37:09,598
Speaker 2: on their own. You have to make that part of

839
00:37:09,638 --> 00:37:13,198
Speaker 2: your culture. Pat Murphy does that Milwaukee as well as anybody.

840
00:37:13,238 --> 00:37:16,878
Speaker 2: And you're right that power is more expensive to obtain.

841
00:37:16,998 --> 00:37:19,638
Speaker 2: It's harder to obtain, and it's more expensive to obtain.

842
00:37:19,798 --> 00:37:23,078
Speaker 2: So some of these other teams should be doubling down

843
00:37:23,078 --> 00:37:27,238
Speaker 2: on contact more than trying to find power. I mean,

844
00:37:27,278 --> 00:37:30,078
Speaker 2: you got to explain to me how the Angels, the

845
00:37:30,198 --> 00:37:34,238
Speaker 2: Rockies and the Pirates are among the seven teams in

846
00:37:34,278 --> 00:37:38,718
Speaker 2: baseball who strike out the most. That shouldn't happen. I mean,

847
00:37:39,158 --> 00:37:41,438
Speaker 2: I'm with you. Those kind of markets, those kinds of

848
00:37:41,438 --> 00:37:44,758
Speaker 2: teams should be emphasizing putting the ball in play. And

849
00:37:44,878 --> 00:37:47,878
Speaker 2: obviously everybody should be emphasizing base running.

850
00:37:47,998 --> 00:37:49,598
Speaker 1: I mean, you watch games every night, Joe.

851
00:37:49,598 --> 00:37:51,838
Speaker 2: Base running is one of those things that'll make you

852
00:37:51,878 --> 00:37:53,158
Speaker 2: scratch your head for.

853
00:37:53,558 --> 00:37:54,478
Speaker 3: One one more point.

854
00:37:54,718 --> 00:37:57,278
Speaker 4: Money gards the base running in spring training and in

855
00:37:57,318 --> 00:38:01,278
Speaker 4: spring and in practice and actual structuring and in spring training,

856
00:38:01,678 --> 00:38:03,678
Speaker 4: the first thing I want it done every day with

857
00:38:03,958 --> 00:38:06,678
Speaker 4: every team was base running. We've felt whatever you put

858
00:38:06,718 --> 00:38:10,038
Speaker 4: at the beginning of practice really hits home with the group.

859
00:38:10,118 --> 00:38:12,238
Speaker 4: This is my god, We're doing this the first thing

860
00:38:12,318 --> 00:38:15,198
Speaker 4: every day. They must think this is important. We got

861
00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:17,318
Speaker 4: to the point where we actually had a warm up

862
00:38:17,638 --> 00:38:20,558
Speaker 4: on the basis as opposed to you know, standing on

863
00:38:20,598 --> 00:38:23,278
Speaker 4: a line or getting in a group circle whatever. We

864
00:38:23,318 --> 00:38:30,598
Speaker 4: had a Monday Wednesday, No, Monday, Thursday, Tuesday, Friday, Wednesday, Saturday,

865
00:38:31,158 --> 00:38:32,998
Speaker 4: moving warm up on the basis. I had it for

866
00:38:33,038 --> 00:38:36,918
Speaker 4: every minor league team. They had this specific warm up

867
00:38:36,918 --> 00:38:39,438
Speaker 4: to go through, and it happened on the basis, so

868
00:38:39,478 --> 00:38:42,158
Speaker 4: that while you're actually being stretched and getting ready for

869
00:38:42,198 --> 00:38:46,158
Speaker 4: the game, you're actually practicing base running skills. So part

870
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:48,198
Speaker 4: of it would be just after you did a couple

871
00:38:48,238 --> 00:38:50,638
Speaker 4: of scretches, you get at first base, take your primary

872
00:38:50,678 --> 00:38:52,478
Speaker 4: secondary lead. Now we're going to go first to third

873
00:38:52,638 --> 00:38:55,038
Speaker 4: with a good cut at second base as an example,

874
00:38:55,358 --> 00:38:58,038
Speaker 4: So this is great. I had Kevin McNair base running instructor.

875
00:38:58,678 --> 00:39:03,358
Speaker 4: He was an old yeah, track and field guy at Stanford.

876
00:39:03,398 --> 00:39:05,918
Speaker 4: We had him and Kevin came in and gave us

877
00:39:05,998 --> 00:39:08,558
Speaker 4: all this different stuff to work with. In the mid eighties,

878
00:39:08,838 --> 00:39:10,918
Speaker 4: people talk about being ahead of our time.

879
00:39:11,238 --> 00:39:13,878
Speaker 3: We absolutely were. But then we took it into Like

880
00:39:13,918 --> 00:39:15,158
Speaker 3: I said, we did this.

881
00:39:15,278 --> 00:39:18,758
Speaker 4: Day every day, and I go into towns and can

882
00:39:18,798 --> 00:39:19,998
Speaker 4: we back off on this?

883
00:39:20,158 --> 00:39:22,558
Speaker 3: No, We're not backing off on this. Because it's not

884
00:39:22,758 --> 00:39:23,598
Speaker 3: easy to do that.

885
00:39:23,758 --> 00:39:26,398
Speaker 4: Every day, you try to create habits in the minor

886
00:39:26,478 --> 00:39:28,358
Speaker 4: league so that when they get to the big leagues

887
00:39:28,398 --> 00:39:28,758
Speaker 4: or as.

888
00:39:28,598 --> 00:39:31,278
Speaker 3: They move up the ladder, it's like anything else.

889
00:39:31,598 --> 00:39:34,438
Speaker 4: Stretching on a daily basis, lifting weights a couple three

890
00:39:34,518 --> 00:39:37,358
Speaker 4: days a week, going for a walk, whatever, riding your bike,

891
00:39:37,718 --> 00:39:40,638
Speaker 4: creating a habit. This creates the habit. So I always

892
00:39:40,678 --> 00:39:44,198
Speaker 4: felt that if you've created good habits with minor leaguers

893
00:39:44,598 --> 00:39:46,718
Speaker 4: early on, eventually they're going to want to do it

894
00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:48,398
Speaker 4: on their own. It's going to become a drug day.

895
00:39:48,398 --> 00:39:50,198
Speaker 4: I have to do this kind of a thing. So

896
00:39:50,238 --> 00:39:52,638
Speaker 4: that's what we did, and it was really really successful.

897
00:39:52,758 --> 00:39:54,638
Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break, Joe, and over

898
00:39:54,678 --> 00:39:56,758
Speaker 2: this break, I want you to think about a question

899
00:39:56,918 --> 00:39:59,638
Speaker 2: that we normally do not ask this time of year,

900
00:39:59,798 --> 00:40:02,598
Speaker 2: and that is are you worried about the Houston Astros.

901
00:40:02,798 --> 00:40:17,198
Speaker 2: We'll answer that question right after this Welcome back to

902
00:40:17,238 --> 00:40:19,078
Speaker 2: the Book of Joe, by the way, and talking about

903
00:40:19,078 --> 00:40:21,438
Speaker 2: home runs being the coin of the realm in today's

904
00:40:21,478 --> 00:40:25,518
Speaker 2: postseason world, that would bode well for the Yankees, the Dodgers,

905
00:40:25,598 --> 00:40:28,318
Speaker 2: and the Mariners. Those are the three teams that that's

906
00:40:28,358 --> 00:40:30,998
Speaker 2: the way they play baseball. They may not get a

907
00:40:31,038 --> 00:40:34,078
Speaker 2: lot of hits, they may take some strikeouts, but they

908
00:40:34,198 --> 00:40:35,878
Speaker 2: change games up and down the lineup.

909
00:40:36,238 --> 00:40:37,718
Speaker 1: We'll see how that plays out.

910
00:40:37,758 --> 00:40:40,678
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, the Houston Astros always seem to be there

911
00:40:40,758 --> 00:40:44,518
Speaker 2: down the stretch into October. But watch them play baseball

912
00:40:44,638 --> 00:40:47,758
Speaker 2: lately and you're not seeing a whole lot. How about this, Joe,

913
00:40:47,878 --> 00:40:50,598
Speaker 2: For their last five games, their losses have been by

914
00:40:50,678 --> 00:40:56,238
Speaker 2: scores of seven to nothing, twelve nothing, ten nothing, and

915
00:40:56,358 --> 00:40:59,998
Speaker 2: one nothing. I mean, just the remarkable stretch. We know

916
00:41:00,118 --> 00:41:03,718
Speaker 2: they've been missing, you're don Alvarez. We know they really

917
00:41:03,918 --> 00:41:07,158
Speaker 2: black left handed pop to really balance out that lineup.

918
00:41:07,358 --> 00:41:10,198
Speaker 2: But tell me your take here on the American League

919
00:41:10,278 --> 00:41:14,238
Speaker 2: West and whether Houston can hold off Seattle, which, by

920
00:41:14,278 --> 00:41:15,958
Speaker 2: the way, I look at a lot of these West

921
00:41:15,958 --> 00:41:18,038
Speaker 2: Coast teams, Joe. I don't know if this happened to

922
00:41:18,118 --> 00:41:20,438
Speaker 2: you at the Angels back in the day, But when

923
00:41:20,438 --> 00:41:23,238
Speaker 2: they go on these humidity trips I call them in

924
00:41:23,358 --> 00:41:26,318
Speaker 2: August coming back east, they're different teams. That's what's happening

925
00:41:26,358 --> 00:41:28,478
Speaker 2: to Seattle, who just killed it on their homestand and

926
00:41:28,478 --> 00:41:31,558
Speaker 2: now scuffling on a humidity trip.

927
00:41:31,598 --> 00:41:32,478
Speaker 1: Here on the East coast.

928
00:41:32,958 --> 00:41:34,838
Speaker 2: But give me your take on the Astros and if

929
00:41:34,838 --> 00:41:37,158
Speaker 2: they can hold off Seattle in the west, well, that's.

930
00:41:37,078 --> 00:41:39,198
Speaker 3: A good point. I mean, I hate it. I shouldn't say, hey,

931
00:41:39,278 --> 00:41:39,838
Speaker 3: I didn't like.

932
00:41:40,238 --> 00:41:43,438
Speaker 4: I also loved when we had our opposite coast trips

933
00:41:43,478 --> 00:41:45,838
Speaker 4: early in the year as opposed to late in the year,

934
00:41:46,198 --> 00:41:47,998
Speaker 4: if you could get that stuff out of the way early,

935
00:41:48,038 --> 00:41:51,278
Speaker 4: because it's always difficult to travel that far and even

936
00:41:51,558 --> 00:41:54,678
Speaker 4: you're saying humidity in this situation, but just the time

937
00:41:54,758 --> 00:41:57,678
Speaker 4: changes beat you up pretty badly. So when you get

938
00:41:57,718 --> 00:42:00,158
Speaker 4: that out of the way early that was always beneficial.

939
00:42:00,238 --> 00:42:03,318
Speaker 4: As supposed to late in the season could be very devastating.

940
00:42:03,558 --> 00:42:06,398
Speaker 4: I've been through that regarding the Astros. I've been watching

941
00:42:06,398 --> 00:42:08,558
Speaker 4: this it's like, well, what's going on here? I they

942
00:42:08,638 --> 00:42:10,118
Speaker 4: get Korea and all of a sudden, he gets a

943
00:42:10,118 --> 00:42:12,198
Speaker 4: couple of hits. I thought things were really going to

944
00:42:12,318 --> 00:42:13,958
Speaker 4: start rolling in their favorite and all of a sudden

945
00:42:13,958 --> 00:42:16,918
Speaker 4: they're not. And then I watched Seattle, like you suggest that.

946
00:42:16,958 --> 00:42:19,718
Speaker 4: I know Phillies are having the best with them right now,

947
00:42:19,798 --> 00:42:23,798
Speaker 4: but I like Seattle's vibe right now. Their acquisitions are

948
00:42:23,838 --> 00:42:26,318
Speaker 4: among the best, and I still like their pitching staff

949
00:42:26,398 --> 00:42:28,118
Speaker 4: a lot. I mean, I see some of these young

950
00:42:28,158 --> 00:42:29,958
Speaker 4: guys get beat up a little bit. But when they,

951
00:42:30,078 --> 00:42:31,958
Speaker 4: like you said, when they get back home, they're gonna

952
00:42:31,958 --> 00:42:35,558
Speaker 4: get all straightened out. I think Seattle can supplant the

953
00:42:35,958 --> 00:42:38,518
Speaker 4: Astros right now. I like what they're doing a lot.

954
00:42:38,958 --> 00:42:39,558
Speaker 3: On the other.

955
00:42:39,478 --> 00:42:42,638
Speaker 4: Side, I don't understand the Astro games. Are they at

956
00:42:42,638 --> 00:42:44,638
Speaker 4: home a lot? You know, remember a couple of years

957
00:42:44,638 --> 00:42:46,638
Speaker 4: ago they had a really hard time at home, but

958
00:42:46,878 --> 00:42:48,918
Speaker 4: they've been like they were much better on the road.

959
00:42:48,958 --> 00:42:51,118
Speaker 4: Have they been at home with all these losses?

960
00:42:51,238 --> 00:42:54,838
Speaker 2: They're in Detroit now, Okay, okay, that was certainly part

961
00:42:54,838 --> 00:42:55,358
Speaker 2: of their problem.

962
00:42:55,358 --> 00:42:56,798
Speaker 1: They ran into trek school boys.

963
00:42:56,998 --> 00:42:59,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all. That's never helpful, right.

964
00:42:59,638 --> 00:43:00,118
Speaker 1: But you're right.

965
00:43:00,318 --> 00:43:04,678
Speaker 2: In recent years they've really struggled for some reason at home,

966
00:43:04,998 --> 00:43:08,438
Speaker 2: including the postseason, haven't been playing. Now this year they're

967
00:43:08,438 --> 00:43:10,758
Speaker 2: doing much better at home thirty eight to seven.

968
00:43:11,118 --> 00:43:11,598
Speaker 3: That's good.

969
00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:14,998
Speaker 2: But in terms of this current trip, they just started

970
00:43:14,998 --> 00:43:17,478
Speaker 2: a trip they had lost. Baltimore took care of them

971
00:43:17,518 --> 00:43:21,198
Speaker 2: near perfect game on the Friday night, and they go

972
00:43:21,318 --> 00:43:25,038
Speaker 2: from Detroit to Baltimore for a four game series and

973
00:43:25,078 --> 00:43:28,358
Speaker 2: then go back home for the Rockies, the Angels, and

974
00:43:28,398 --> 00:43:32,318
Speaker 2: the Yankees. So yeah, this has happened both home and

975
00:43:32,518 --> 00:43:35,958
Speaker 2: road recently. And again they made a trade for Sanchez,

976
00:43:35,998 --> 00:43:37,998
Speaker 2: the left handed hitter. Helped the line up a little bit,

977
00:43:38,038 --> 00:43:41,958
Speaker 2: but I'd be worried about Houston's ability to score uugh runs.

978
00:43:42,158 --> 00:43:45,798
Speaker 4: Well, obviously it's trending in that direction. You know, Korea

979
00:43:45,878 --> 00:43:48,758
Speaker 4: is a nice player, used to be really good. Getting

980
00:43:48,838 --> 00:43:51,838
Speaker 4: him back together with the band sound like a good idea.

981
00:43:52,318 --> 00:43:54,318
Speaker 4: I don't know that he's going to be that impactful

982
00:43:55,118 --> 00:43:57,278
Speaker 4: down the stretch for them, just based on his more

983
00:43:57,318 --> 00:43:59,798
Speaker 4: recent history. So yeah, I would be concerned. If I

984
00:43:59,838 --> 00:44:02,998
Speaker 4: was them, I would be concerned. And especially with the Mariners,

985
00:44:02,998 --> 00:44:05,878
Speaker 4: with their acquisition, the vibe they got going on right now,

986
00:44:05,878 --> 00:44:07,038
Speaker 4: I think they're very dangerous.

987
00:44:07,238 --> 00:44:09,598
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to see the schedule here. I think

988
00:44:09,958 --> 00:44:13,438
Speaker 2: they've got a series against Seattle the next to the

989
00:44:13,558 --> 00:44:18,318
Speaker 2: last week of the season in Houston and that's it

990
00:44:18,438 --> 00:44:21,398
Speaker 2: in terms of head to head matchups. And speaking of

991
00:44:21,398 --> 00:44:23,758
Speaker 2: getting the band back together, I'm not sure if you

992
00:44:23,878 --> 00:44:27,438
Speaker 2: remember the rocker Dave Edmunds. Does that name mean anything,

993
00:44:27,638 --> 00:44:29,038
Speaker 2: Dave Edmonds and rock Pile.

994
00:44:29,518 --> 00:44:30,998
Speaker 3: I know Jimmy Edmonds.

995
00:44:32,878 --> 00:44:36,758
Speaker 2: No relations, okay, Dave Edmunds, British rocker.

996
00:44:37,438 --> 00:44:38,478
Speaker 1: You would love it.

997
00:44:38,478 --> 00:44:41,238
Speaker 2: It's what a lot of people call a great bar band,

998
00:44:42,238 --> 00:44:46,278
Speaker 2: which means, you know, great guitar riffs, great hooks, hard

999
00:44:46,358 --> 00:44:47,118
Speaker 2: driving guitar.

1000
00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:48,518
Speaker 1: Dave Edmonds.

1001
00:44:48,838 --> 00:44:51,878
Speaker 2: I bring it up because he had a one solo hit,

1002
00:44:52,078 --> 00:44:55,558
Speaker 2: I Hear You Knocking, Yeah, yeah, you know that song right,

1003
00:44:56,118 --> 00:44:58,158
Speaker 2: And then he teamed up with Nick Lowe and a

1004
00:44:58,158 --> 00:45:01,398
Speaker 2: couple of the guys rock Pile. If you haven't heard them,

1005
00:45:01,678 --> 00:45:05,958
Speaker 2: you would definitely dig them. Great classic rock and roll sound.

1006
00:45:06,598 --> 00:45:09,358
Speaker 2: They came out with the other songs. Second the album

1007
00:45:09,438 --> 00:45:12,838
Speaker 2: was called Seconds of Pleasure, Girls Talk, Queen of Hearts.

1008
00:45:13,438 --> 00:45:15,638
Speaker 2: I knew the bride when she used to rock and roll.

1009
00:45:16,038 --> 00:45:19,038
Speaker 2: Good stuff anyway. Dave Edmunds is eighty one years old,

1010
00:45:19,238 --> 00:45:22,158
Speaker 2: and the other day, not too long ago, his wife

1011
00:45:22,158 --> 00:45:26,238
Speaker 2: put out a post that claimed that he essentially died

1012
00:45:26,438 --> 00:45:29,078
Speaker 2: in her arms, and they rushed into the hospital and

1013
00:45:29,118 --> 00:45:33,118
Speaker 2: they resuscitated him. He's back among the living at eighty

1014
00:45:33,158 --> 00:45:35,198
Speaker 2: one years old, and he was doing so well. They

1015
00:45:35,198 --> 00:45:37,158
Speaker 2: did a procedure on his heart. He had a cardiac

1016
00:45:37,238 --> 00:45:39,798
Speaker 2: arrest where his heart stopped, and they brought him back

1017
00:45:39,798 --> 00:45:42,878
Speaker 2: to life and they sent him home. So Dave Edmunds

1018
00:45:42,918 --> 00:45:45,398
Speaker 2: is still with us. But I'm surprised you have not

1019
00:45:45,558 --> 00:45:47,798
Speaker 2: heard of Rock Pile and Dave Edmunds.

1020
00:45:47,918 --> 00:45:48,718
Speaker 3: Joe, I'm sorry.

1021
00:45:48,798 --> 00:45:52,118
Speaker 2: Before we do our next podcast, that's your homework assignment.

1022
00:45:52,158 --> 00:45:52,638
Speaker 3: I wrote it down.

1023
00:45:53,518 --> 00:45:57,398
Speaker 2: You gonna go listen to rock Pile's album Seconds of

1024
00:45:57,518 --> 00:45:59,558
Speaker 2: Pleasure and report back.

1025
00:45:59,798 --> 00:46:01,198
Speaker 3: I'm going to do that as well as getting my

1026
00:46:01,278 --> 00:46:01,758
Speaker 3: voice right.

1027
00:46:01,758 --> 00:46:05,278
Speaker 2: Oh my god, not like you could cut a rock

1028
00:46:05,358 --> 00:46:06,078
Speaker 2: album today.

1029
00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:09,478
Speaker 4: The travel, the lack of sleep, all that stuff doesn't help.

1030
00:46:09,518 --> 00:46:12,598
Speaker 4: But I wrote it down. Rock Piles, Sounds of Pleasure.

1031
00:46:13,398 --> 00:46:15,758
Speaker 1: I definitely Stor's is a pleasure.

1032
00:46:17,118 --> 00:46:18,998
Speaker 3: I say, Sounds of Pleasure, Seconds of Pleasure. Yeah.

1033
00:46:19,118 --> 00:46:22,038
Speaker 4: I can't even understand my own handwriting today, but yeah,

1034
00:46:22,038 --> 00:46:23,718
Speaker 4: I definitely gonna give it a listen, I promise.

1035
00:46:24,038 --> 00:46:24,318
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1036
00:46:24,518 --> 00:46:27,158
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, in the meantime, we've covered a lot of

1037
00:46:27,158 --> 00:46:29,238
Speaker 2: ground today, Joe, but we always end with some words

1038
00:46:29,278 --> 00:46:29,678
Speaker 2: of wisdom.

1039
00:46:29,718 --> 00:46:31,158
Speaker 1: What do you have to take us home today?

1040
00:46:31,598 --> 00:46:33,438
Speaker 3: Clear your throat properly is number one?

1041
00:46:34,358 --> 00:46:38,278
Speaker 1: And gargle with salt? Do that anymore? I usually was

1042
00:46:38,318 --> 00:46:40,278
Speaker 1: that like a go to for your mom and dad.

1043
00:46:40,478 --> 00:46:42,558
Speaker 1: Gargle with salt? Water sore throat.

1044
00:46:42,798 --> 00:46:46,678
Speaker 4: Yeah, just I have this awful, awful voice in the

1045
00:46:46,718 --> 00:46:50,558
Speaker 4: morning sometimes. Okay, here's my take on this one. Reality

1046
00:46:50,678 --> 00:46:55,398
Speaker 4: versus fantasy. We're so much into the fantasy component of

1047
00:46:55,398 --> 00:46:58,518
Speaker 4: baseball right now, which would be the Savannah Bananas. I mean,

1048
00:46:58,598 --> 00:47:01,918
Speaker 4: everybody is so intrigued by this group, and every place

1049
00:47:01,918 --> 00:47:04,318
Speaker 4: I go is in Chicago. I'm playing the golf tournament,

1050
00:47:04,358 --> 00:47:06,278
Speaker 4: people are coming up to me, Hey, have you seen

1051
00:47:06,278 --> 00:47:09,398
Speaker 4: the Savanna Bananas? They were playing at Kimiski Park great Field.

1052
00:47:09,638 --> 00:47:11,958
Speaker 4: I think it's rate right or something like that. Anyhow,

1053
00:47:12,238 --> 00:47:15,198
Speaker 4: it makes me think about that, and also, like a

1054
00:47:15,238 --> 00:47:17,318
Speaker 4: lot of the new rules that are happening in the

1055
00:47:17,318 --> 00:47:19,278
Speaker 4: game itself, it seems to me like the bananas have

1056
00:47:19,318 --> 00:47:21,838
Speaker 4: a lot of influence on what's going on in Major

1057
00:47:21,918 --> 00:47:24,958
Speaker 4: League Baseball right now, right down to the colors and

1058
00:47:25,278 --> 00:47:29,078
Speaker 4: the celebrations, and anything's on the table right now is

1059
00:47:29,118 --> 00:47:32,518
Speaker 4: being acceptable, and I find that fascinating. I was going

1060
00:47:32,558 --> 00:47:36,198
Speaker 4: into reality versus fantasy, and I got some good stuff

1061
00:47:36,198 --> 00:47:39,918
Speaker 4: here because reality and fantasy I kind of overlap a lot.

1062
00:47:39,958 --> 00:47:42,478
Speaker 4: And I found a good quote from a guy by

1063
00:47:42,558 --> 00:47:45,718
Speaker 4: name of David Borston, and he's an older gentleman and

1064
00:47:45,758 --> 00:47:48,718
Speaker 4: he's gone. But it just he's trying to set my

1065
00:47:48,838 --> 00:47:51,798
Speaker 4: mind straight because sometimes I get off track. And he's

1066
00:47:52,318 --> 00:47:54,878
Speaker 4: born in early nineteen hundreds, et cetera, nineteen fourteen to

1067
00:47:54,918 --> 00:47:57,398
Speaker 4: two thousand and four. But the American citizen lives in

1068
00:47:57,438 --> 00:48:01,318
Speaker 4: a world where fantasy is more real than reality. It's

1069
00:48:01,358 --> 00:48:04,918
Speaker 4: a cultural elevation of illusion over fact. And I think

1070
00:48:05,358 --> 00:48:07,638
Speaker 4: I'm thinking to myself, Okay, I'm not knowing when this

1071
00:48:07,678 --> 00:48:08,238
Speaker 4: guy was born.

1072
00:48:08,318 --> 00:48:09,558
Speaker 3: This is like what's going on today?

1073
00:48:09,598 --> 00:48:11,798
Speaker 4: Then I realized this guy was born in nineteen fourteen

1074
00:48:12,238 --> 00:48:14,238
Speaker 4: and passed away in two thousand and four. And then

1075
00:48:14,758 --> 00:48:17,718
Speaker 4: Lewis Carroll, imagination is the only weapon in the war

1076
00:48:17,758 --> 00:48:21,638
Speaker 4: against reality. H you know, Alice in Wonderland, reality can

1077
00:48:21,678 --> 00:48:25,758
Speaker 4: be beaten with enough imagination, Mark Twain. So I'm getting

1078
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:28,478
Speaker 4: all concerned about all of what I'm seeing around me

1079
00:48:28,518 --> 00:48:32,078
Speaker 4: where I'm movies today. Superman Kay is a K pop

1080
00:48:32,158 --> 00:48:35,998
Speaker 4: demon hunters bad guys, to all these fantasy thunderbolts. It's

1081
00:48:36,038 --> 00:48:39,678
Speaker 4: never we don't even watch Like there's not even movies

1082
00:48:39,718 --> 00:48:41,678
Speaker 4: that are so compelling that I got to go to

1083
00:48:41,758 --> 00:48:43,878
Speaker 4: the theater to see these movies anymore. Because it's all

1084
00:48:44,358 --> 00:48:47,718
Speaker 4: based on fantasy. So I was worried about this and

1085
00:48:47,998 --> 00:48:50,638
Speaker 4: is it overtaking Is it overtaking our game the fact

1086
00:48:50,678 --> 00:48:53,078
Speaker 4: that we want we want to be like the Savannah bananas,

1087
00:48:53,398 --> 00:48:56,198
Speaker 4: not like the Milwaukee Brewers of today. So I was

1088
00:48:56,238 --> 00:48:58,798
Speaker 4: I was concerned about that. But I guess the conclusion

1089
00:48:58,838 --> 00:49:00,798
Speaker 4: is it's always been this way. There's always been like

1090
00:49:00,838 --> 00:49:04,478
Speaker 4: ebbs and flows, different things become popular, other things that

1091
00:49:04,518 --> 00:49:07,558
Speaker 4: have been traditional become unpopular. Is it's just the way

1092
00:49:07,678 --> 00:49:10,398
Speaker 4: things I don't know even out in a sense, and

1093
00:49:10,518 --> 00:49:12,078
Speaker 4: how they go back and forth. And are we going

1094
00:49:12,118 --> 00:49:14,118
Speaker 4: to go back to what we had been doing before,

1095
00:49:14,478 --> 00:49:16,518
Speaker 4: a more traditional part of the game and not just

1096
00:49:16,798 --> 00:49:20,318
Speaker 4: don't get so concerned about it. So that was my concern,

1097
00:49:20,398 --> 00:49:23,358
Speaker 4: is the fantasy versus reality, and that we're getting too

1098
00:49:23,438 --> 00:49:27,238
Speaker 4: much involved with fantasy and not involved as much in reality.

1099
00:49:27,598 --> 00:49:31,758
Speaker 4: But then looking at somebody that's a historian that actually

1100
00:49:31,798 --> 00:49:33,798
Speaker 4: I guess was a historian at the University of Chicago

1101
00:49:33,918 --> 00:49:36,518
Speaker 4: back in the day, you know, really learned man. So

1102
00:49:36,678 --> 00:49:39,038
Speaker 4: I guess this is just who we are. We always

1103
00:49:39,518 --> 00:49:41,998
Speaker 4: want to scape reality through fantasy. And maybe it's a

1104
00:49:41,998 --> 00:49:44,438
Speaker 4: good thing. I don't know, but I get caught up

1105
00:49:44,438 --> 00:49:47,998
Speaker 4: in traditionalism, I do, although I've been accused of being

1106
00:49:48,118 --> 00:49:50,838
Speaker 4: outside the box in my thinking for years. So I'm

1107
00:49:50,838 --> 00:49:52,478
Speaker 4: trying to come to grips with where am I Where

1108
00:49:52,518 --> 00:49:54,438
Speaker 4: do I lie on all this? So what do I

1109
00:49:54,478 --> 00:49:55,638
Speaker 4: really think about all of this?

1110
00:49:55,958 --> 00:49:56,798
Speaker 3: Should I be more.

1111
00:49:56,678 --> 00:50:02,558
Speaker 4: Accepting of changes which I don't really like? Celebrations as

1112
00:50:02,638 --> 00:50:05,558
Speaker 4: they occur, guy slipping bats and you know they're now

1113
00:50:05,558 --> 00:50:07,878
Speaker 4: they're they're shaking hands with the first Spase coach, or

1114
00:50:08,238 --> 00:50:10,078
Speaker 4: some kind of a display before they get to the

1115
00:50:10,118 --> 00:50:12,798
Speaker 4: bag on a home run. All these things are they

1116
00:50:13,038 --> 00:50:15,958
Speaker 4: work against my sensibilities, the things that I've learned. But

1117
00:50:15,998 --> 00:50:19,598
Speaker 4: then again, maybe that's just this moment in time and

1118
00:50:19,638 --> 00:50:21,958
Speaker 4: it's going to come back as it had been before.

1119
00:50:21,998 --> 00:50:23,958
Speaker 4: So I don't know where I'm going with this overall,

1120
00:50:24,078 --> 00:50:27,598
Speaker 4: just as an observation that I had to like actually

1121
00:50:27,878 --> 00:50:32,718
Speaker 4: research for myself, this moment of fantasy becoming more more

1122
00:50:32,718 --> 00:50:36,158
Speaker 4: important than reality, and a lot of segments and even

1123
00:50:36,158 --> 00:50:38,398
Speaker 4: to the point where we have such problems in our

1124
00:50:38,438 --> 00:50:42,758
Speaker 4: country is as the fantasy necessary to escape the realism

1125
00:50:42,838 --> 00:50:45,638
Speaker 4: of what's happening right now. So baseball has got me

1126
00:50:45,758 --> 00:50:47,558
Speaker 4: to think this way. And then I did a little

1127
00:50:47,558 --> 00:50:50,598
Speaker 4: bit of my research, and maybe I'm the problem, That's

1128
00:50:50,598 --> 00:50:51,198
Speaker 4: what I'm thinking.

1129
00:50:51,358 --> 00:50:55,878
Speaker 1: No, I think you're onto something. Clearly. Man has always.

1130
00:50:55,398 --> 00:50:59,638
Speaker 2: Enjoyed escaping reality, right, I mean, imagination takes this place

1131
00:50:59,678 --> 00:51:03,318
Speaker 2: as we otherwise could never visit, and it's a great diversion.

1132
00:51:03,318 --> 00:51:05,118
Speaker 2: I think the one of the first movies that ever

1133
00:51:05,158 --> 00:51:08,278
Speaker 2: made was an animated movie, was A rocket Ship to

1134
00:51:08,318 --> 00:51:12,158
Speaker 2: the Moon. And think about how mysterious the moon was

1135
00:51:12,358 --> 00:51:15,758
Speaker 2: for eons right until we went there mapped it out.

1136
00:51:16,038 --> 00:51:18,398
Speaker 2: And now it's like nobody's writing songs and movies about

1137
00:51:18,438 --> 00:51:20,358
Speaker 2: the moon anymore, right, So.

1138
00:51:20,358 --> 00:51:21,398
Speaker 1: We need to go farther.

1139
00:51:21,558 --> 00:51:23,878
Speaker 2: And I think what you're getting at, Joe, is that

1140
00:51:23,958 --> 00:51:28,398
Speaker 2: even though this has always been our pastime, if you

1141
00:51:28,438 --> 00:51:31,918
Speaker 2: will to escape reality, it seems to be I think

1142
00:51:31,958 --> 00:51:35,358
Speaker 2: in the balance of reality versus imagination, the heavier side

1143
00:51:35,398 --> 00:51:39,638
Speaker 2: of things now, like the escape now, is to actually

1144
00:51:39,678 --> 00:51:43,118
Speaker 2: get in touch with reality, to actually touch things tangibly,

1145
00:51:43,198 --> 00:51:46,878
Speaker 2: whether it's nature, whether it's a book. So much time

1146
00:51:46,998 --> 00:51:51,118
Speaker 2: now is spent in a virtual world and adults costuming

1147
00:51:51,318 --> 00:51:54,878
Speaker 2: and pretending to be something and putting a fake virtual

1148
00:51:54,958 --> 00:51:58,678
Speaker 2: life out there online, that it almost the reverse happens

1149
00:51:58,718 --> 00:52:04,078
Speaker 2: now where you go back to reality to Yeah, I

1150
00:52:04,158 --> 00:52:07,438
Speaker 2: mean I do think it's it's so easier now.

1151
00:52:07,478 --> 00:52:08,478
Speaker 1: And you mentioned movies.

1152
00:52:08,758 --> 00:52:11,678
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean you have to go to a movie

1153
00:52:11,678 --> 00:52:14,598
Speaker 2: theater now to see it in the theater rather than home,

1154
00:52:14,678 --> 00:52:18,638
Speaker 2: because why probably the CGI the special effects, right, and

1155
00:52:18,678 --> 00:52:21,838
Speaker 2: those have to be more escapism as well to get

1156
00:52:21,878 --> 00:52:24,838
Speaker 2: you in. Not a storyline or acting or a narrative

1157
00:52:24,998 --> 00:52:27,598
Speaker 2: or the screenplay. That's not going to pull people into

1158
00:52:27,598 --> 00:52:31,078
Speaker 2: a theater. So I think you're onto something here, Joe,

1159
00:52:31,078 --> 00:52:34,078
Speaker 2: that we do it more often and do it in

1160
00:52:34,158 --> 00:52:37,718
Speaker 2: more creative ways than ever before that. Yes, I think

1161
00:52:37,798 --> 00:52:41,198
Speaker 2: the balance between imagination and reality is skewing more towards

1162
00:52:41,198 --> 00:52:43,478
Speaker 2: the imagination side more than ever it is.

1163
00:52:43,598 --> 00:52:46,718
Speaker 4: And I guess that's been concerning for me. Like I said,

1164
00:52:46,798 --> 00:52:49,798
Speaker 4: movies are of that ilk. And then I'm looking at

1165
00:52:49,798 --> 00:52:53,358
Speaker 4: the game itself. And you know, there's fantasy baseball, fantasy football,

1166
00:52:53,758 --> 00:52:56,158
Speaker 4: which when you are involved, like in fantasy football, I

1167
00:52:56,158 --> 00:52:58,638
Speaker 4: stopped playing that because I started rooting against my team.

1168
00:52:58,958 --> 00:53:00,638
Speaker 4: If if there was if I had a player on

1169
00:53:00,678 --> 00:53:02,958
Speaker 4: my fantasy team that was playing against the Cardinals at

1170
00:53:02,998 --> 00:53:04,918
Speaker 4: that time and had a good day, I was okay

1171
00:53:04,958 --> 00:53:07,078
Speaker 4: with that. I didn't like that, so I stopped doing it.

1172
00:53:07,118 --> 00:53:10,398
Speaker 4: I could not root against my guys because of a

1173
00:53:10,438 --> 00:53:14,118
Speaker 4: fantasy football situation, and that gets really out of control

1174
00:53:14,118 --> 00:53:16,998
Speaker 4: and it takes absorbs your time and whatever. Anyway I've done,

1175
00:53:17,158 --> 00:53:19,358
Speaker 4: this has been stuck in my head. And you did

1176
00:53:19,358 --> 00:53:22,078
Speaker 4: a nice job that I appreciated of clarifying it for

1177
00:53:22,198 --> 00:53:25,598
Speaker 4: me even more. But that's that's been my It's been stuck,

1178
00:53:25,878 --> 00:53:27,318
Speaker 4: is stuck in my crawl a little bit. What am

1179
00:53:27,358 --> 00:53:29,198
Speaker 4: I watching right now? What am I seeing right now?

1180
00:53:29,638 --> 00:53:31,318
Speaker 4: I don't even want to go to a movie because

1181
00:53:31,318 --> 00:53:34,118
Speaker 4: there's there's no real compelling movie to go see. I

1182
00:53:34,158 --> 00:53:36,398
Speaker 4: think the Dylan movie was might be the most recent

1183
00:53:36,438 --> 00:53:38,598
Speaker 4: one that I had to see. Other than that, all

1184
00:53:38,598 --> 00:53:41,438
Speaker 4: the stuff that's thrown out there, it's it's just escapism.

1185
00:53:41,638 --> 00:53:44,438
Speaker 4: And again, is that what we need right now? Over

1186
00:53:44,558 --> 00:53:49,238
Speaker 4: the true reality? Really good research stories that could just

1187
00:53:49,398 --> 00:53:51,958
Speaker 4: exist in a in a kitchen for the whole movie.

1188
00:53:51,998 --> 00:53:54,118
Speaker 4: But it's well acted and as a great script I'm

1189
00:53:54,158 --> 00:53:57,038
Speaker 4: in So I prefer that kind of thing over what

1190
00:53:57,118 --> 00:53:59,838
Speaker 4: we're being inundated with right now. Last one here from

1191
00:53:59,878 --> 00:54:02,918
Speaker 4: Frederic Nietzsche, we have art in order not to die

1192
00:54:02,998 --> 00:54:03,758
Speaker 4: of the truth.

1193
00:54:04,158 --> 00:54:08,758
Speaker 3: Guy was good. So I guess we're talking about all

1194
00:54:08,798 --> 00:54:10,198
Speaker 3: of that anyway. Thank you for that.

1195
00:54:10,438 --> 00:54:12,718
Speaker 4: I'm still on a quest to really understand what I'm

1196
00:54:12,718 --> 00:54:15,118
Speaker 4: thinking about all of this, but I'm concerned a little

1197
00:54:15,158 --> 00:54:19,558
Speaker 4: bit about it. However, mister Borstein Borstein, I think his name,

1198
00:54:19,678 --> 00:54:22,158
Speaker 4: Hey pronounce it just as pointed out to me.

1199
00:54:22,158 --> 00:54:23,598
Speaker 3: It's been happening for the last century.

1200
00:54:23,798 --> 00:54:25,838
Speaker 1: I love it. Good thought provoking stuff.

1201
00:54:25,878 --> 00:54:29,358
Speaker 2: And I promise you, Joe and our listeners on this podcast,

1202
00:54:29,678 --> 00:54:31,078
Speaker 2: we will always keep it real.

1203
00:54:31,478 --> 00:54:32,918
Speaker 3: You never know, brother, you never know.

1204
00:54:33,198 --> 00:54:33,678
Speaker 1: Great job.

1205
00:54:33,678 --> 00:54:35,758
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, all right, buddy, take care.

1206
00:54:43,078 --> 00:54:46,278
Speaker 2: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1207
00:54:46,518 --> 00:54:51,478
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1208
00:54:51,598 --> 00:54:53,398
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.