Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 2: I am Mike Spofford. He is my partner in crime,
Speaker 2: Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from different locations
Speaker 2: ATLINO will Field to review the twenty twenty three draft
Speaker 2: for the Packers weston thirteen selections over a span of
Speaker 2: three days, including nine on the third and final day
Speaker 2: on Saturday. I don't know about you, but only having
Speaker 2: Sunday off before coming back to work on Monday was
Speaker 2: not enough of a break. But that being said, it
Speaker 2: was quite the eventful weekend in packerland.
Speaker 3: You know what the weekend reminded me of, Mike. It's
Speaker 3: where I don't know how many like ten k's or
Speaker 3: half marathons you've run, but it's where you know you're
Speaker 3: prepared for it. Zero. Okay, well I've run a couple now,
Speaker 3: but if you're not properly conditioned to pacing, you can
Speaker 3: kind of hit that wall at the end. That's what
Speaker 3: the seventh round was for me. On Saturday night, it
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, I knew we were getting thirteen picks.
Speaker 3: I knew it was going to be a long couple days,
Speaker 3: but when we got to that seventh round and it
Speaker 3: was one, two, three, four picks right in a row.
Speaker 3: That was sort of that last push over the hump,
Speaker 3: the most picks the Packers have had in the modern
Speaker 3: draft era, seventh round era, uh tying that with two thousand.
Speaker 3: When you know, you look at Ron Wolf uh drafting
Speaker 3: thirteen players and on that what would now be the
Speaker 3: third day, he got Nile Diggs, Kabir Baja Biamila, and
Speaker 3: Mark Tauschman. Oh sure, yeah, three pretty good football players.
Speaker 3: And certainly there was one big line. It came from
Speaker 3: Milt Hendrickson, uh, Packers director of player Operations, when he
Speaker 3: came out to talk about some of the picks and
Speaker 3: he said, you know, if you're batting three hundred, it
Speaker 3: always it's better to have, you know, thirteen at bats
Speaker 3: than ten. And it's true, I mean it does. Having
Speaker 3: those extra picks gives you a couple more swings at
Speaker 3: the play and the Packers hope that they hit a
Speaker 3: home run here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, it was a busy three days.
Speaker 2: And as we review the draft class here, we'll break
Speaker 2: it down by phase offense, defense, special teams.
Speaker 1: And when you look at you look at what the Packers.
Speaker 2: Did on offense West This was about This was about
Speaker 2: an influx of young talent at the perimeter positions. The
Speaker 2: Packers drafted three wide receivers, two tight ends, and a
Speaker 2: running back. All of them are going to have a
Speaker 2: tremendous opportunity to make their mark on the depth chart
Speaker 2: here in Green Bay as things currently stand. The offensive
Speaker 2: picks started on Friday night with the two tight ends,
Speaker 2: one in the second round, one in the third round,
Speaker 2: Luke Musgrave from Oregon State and Tucker Craft from South
Speaker 2: Dakota State. In between those two in the second round
Speaker 2: was wide receiver Jaden Reid from Michigan State. And then
Speaker 2: two wide receivers added on Saturday, Dante Wicks from Virginia.
Speaker 2: I believe he goes by Tay, so I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: call him Ta Wicks and Grant Dubo's from Charlotte. So
Speaker 2: at tight end and wide receiver, not unexpected. What the
Speaker 2: Packers did loading up, so to speak, at those at
Speaker 2: those two positions, at a combination there of early round
Speaker 2: picks and some late round picks. To see what these
Speaker 2: young men have.
Speaker 3: Well, and as you said too, Mike, you and I
Speaker 3: we haven't had necessarily the opportunity to dive right into
Speaker 3: this draft. Yet we kind of slept a little bit
Speaker 3: on Sunday and then we came into the office today
Speaker 3: one of the little type of you know, little research projects.
Speaker 3: I want to do. It won't take too long, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: On drafthistory dot com was the last time the Packers
Speaker 3: out of a draft drafted a quarterback, a running back,
Speaker 3: a receiver, at least one receiver, and at least one
Speaker 3: tight end. Uh, they addressed everything, and I think when
Speaker 3: you look at what the Packers needs were, they lost
Speaker 3: a lot of their depth in free agency. Right, So
Speaker 3: many people focus on the Aaron Rodgers transition to Jordan Love,
Speaker 3: but you lose Allen Lazard, you lose Robert Tunyan. At
Speaker 3: this time, Mercedes Lewis has not been resigned. The Packers
Speaker 3: needed not only to find some potential playmakers, they needed
Speaker 3: to be able to build out the depth of their
Speaker 3: skill positions. Brian Gudikunz did that, starting really quickly, just
Speaker 3: mentioning Musgrave and Craft. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: people in inbox asking, well, if you like one, why
Speaker 3: did you have to take two? Well, the fact of
Speaker 3: the matter is Mike last year, Robert Tunyan and Mercedes Lewis.
Speaker 3: They ate up almost fifteen hundred snaps together. They started
Speaker 3: twenty combined games over the course of the seasons. The
Speaker 3: Packers love their twelve personnel package and they would just
Speaker 3: be completely thrilled if both Musgrave and Craft end up
Speaker 3: being solid NFL contributors. They have different type of skill sets,
Speaker 3: but yet they're both incredibly versatile and what they do.
Speaker 3: It's not like one is just strictly an inline blocker
Speaker 3: and one is a perimeter Jermichael Finley type type receiving
Speaker 3: tight end. A lot of flexibility with how the Packers
Speaker 3: want to use that position. When you only had Josiah
Speaker 3: Deguara and Tyler Davis coming back from last season, you
Speaker 3: had to make a move and the Packers did that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Musgrave is that is that, you know, big target,
Speaker 2: but with the speed down the field, He's that. He's
Speaker 2: that kind of prospect coming off of obviously a really
Speaker 2: rough knee injury from last season. But he talked in
Speaker 2: his conference called the Zoom Call that he had with
Speaker 2: the media after he was picked. He talked about how
Speaker 2: he he really pushed himself to be able to get
Speaker 2: back on the field for the Senior Bowl. He knew
Speaker 2: he could be one of these one of the top
Speaker 2: guys in a very deep tight end class as long
Speaker 2: as he would have a chance to show what he's got.
Speaker 2: And and even though he really didn't have much of
Speaker 2: a season, just two games at Oregon State last year
Speaker 2: before the injury, he was back on the field for
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl. He did everything at the combine and
Speaker 2: he and he did become one of the top prospects
Speaker 2: that was being talked to about very much so as
Speaker 2: a as a second round target for a lot of teams,
Speaker 2: and the Packers swooped in there. Then in the third
Speaker 2: round they add another tight end in Tucker Craft. Now
Speaker 2: this is a you know, an FCS All American from
Speaker 2: South Dakota State. He even talked about how he had
Speaker 2: he he had nil offers, you know, a chance to
Speaker 2: transfer from the smaller school, go big time, you know,
Speaker 2: make some money as a college kid in this new
Speaker 2: landscape of college football. He's from Timberlake, South Dakota, population
Speaker 2: of five hundred and thirteen people, and he wanted to
Speaker 2: stick to you know, stick to his roots, stick to
Speaker 2: the to the small town, the small town roots that
Speaker 2: he has, and now he's going to He's going to
Speaker 2: take all that background to the big time, so to speak,
Speaker 2: in the NFL. Sounds like a very very confident young man.
Speaker 2: I had asked Brian gudakunst okay, So if the if
Speaker 2: the vertical speed, which is what John Eric Sullivan had
Speaker 2: had pegged Luke Musgrave as sort of the standout trait
Speaker 2: in a very deep class of tight ends. If vertical
Speaker 2: speed is is Luke Musgrave's thing, what is what is
Speaker 2: Tucker Craft's thing?
Speaker 1: And uh?
Speaker 2: And Brian Guducum said, it's probably the run after the catch,
Speaker 2: the the ability to stay balanced, to break tackles and
Speaker 2: and you know, turn shorter passes into uh into some
Speaker 2: longer gains. Both of these guys can run, but it's
Speaker 2: it's a it's an interesting compliment to talk about the
Speaker 2: two of them, one of them being the downfield threat,
Speaker 2: the other one being a guy who can maybe uh,
Speaker 2: you know, break some tackles and and turn shorter passes
Speaker 2: into more productive plays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you never want to have injuries, but when you
Speaker 3: look at Muskrave. The mcl I wrote about this, I
Speaker 3: think in our Insider Inbox column that is probably the
Speaker 3: best case scenario in terms of when you talk about
Speaker 3: knee injuries, because he did his did require surgery. You know,
Speaker 3: many times sprains can actually heal themselves when it's in
Speaker 3: you know, a medial collateral ligament. But the thing that's
Speaker 3: cool about it from his perspective is he was able
Speaker 3: to get healthy again. He was able to go through
Speaker 3: the offseason program, the pre draft process in show teams that, hey,
Speaker 3: this is the type of player I am. Because Mike,
Speaker 3: you mentioned the two games before he got hurt, he
Speaker 3: was already halfway towards his entire output from the previous season.
Speaker 3: He was in the midst of a breakout season with
Speaker 3: the way that he started his twenty twenty two campaign.
Speaker 3: And from Craft's perspective, so much respect for the kid.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about Carl Brooks at some point too. These
Speaker 3: guys that look at for the programs that really invested
Speaker 3: in them, and they stayed true to them. And I
Speaker 3: think if anything has been proven here the last few years,
Speaker 3: when you look at what South Dakota State has done
Speaker 3: obviously last year, North Dakota State and Christian Watson, not
Speaker 3: only is are they producing NFL talent and NFL ready talent.
Speaker 3: The amount of opportunities these kids get is pretty incredible.
Speaker 3: I mean, I believe Kraft played in like fifteen games
Speaker 3: or something close to that last year. I mean, these
Speaker 3: kids get such a huge opportunity to be the guy
Speaker 3: in these offenses. And another big thing that mil Hendrickson
Speaker 3: talked about, you look for it. You look for these
Speaker 3: young guys that maybe don't play against Alabama every week
Speaker 3: to dominate their competition. And Craft is one of those
Speaker 3: kids that has done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by sticking around to South Dakota State, he
Speaker 2: won a national championship and he had he kept you
Speaker 2: talk about playing the fifteen games. You know, they make
Speaker 2: the whole big playoff run, they win the FCS national title,
Speaker 2: and then he's moving on to the NFL and ends up,
Speaker 2: you know, still getting picked in the third round despite
Speaker 2: not being you know, from one of those big schools,
Speaker 2: a wide receiver. You know, it's it's it's hard to
Speaker 2: contain the excitement in some ways for Jaden Reid. The
Speaker 2: selection out of Michigan State. Brian Gudakunz took Luke Musgrave
Speaker 2: at picked number forty two in the second round. He
Speaker 2: also had pick number forty five, he had Jaden Reid
Speaker 2: on his radar. He actually traded back twice, picked up
Speaker 2: a couple of extra Day three draft picks, ended up
Speaker 2: moving back five spots as a result of those two trades,
Speaker 2: and then still got read. And I think what's really interesting,
Speaker 2: what's interesting about re and this is what I said
Speaker 2: in our Insider Inbox column for Monday morning, the Packers
Speaker 2: haven't had a receiver with with this type of profile
Speaker 2: in Matt Lafleur's offense. They you know, they gave it
Speaker 2: a try, I guess, so to speak with with Amari Rodgers,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to find that slot receiver who could
Speaker 2: run the jet sweeps and some of those things. But
Speaker 2: a Mari Rodgers doesn't run like Jayden Reed does in
Speaker 2: terms of the speed. Amari Rodgers was not, didn't didn't have,
Speaker 2: you know, all these highlights of contested catches, going up
Speaker 2: and fighting for footballs and doing the kinds of things
Speaker 2: that that Jayden Reid did at Michigan State. So there's
Speaker 2: there's a very different profile here. While Tay Wix and
Speaker 2: Grant Dubo's are those you know, six one six two
Speaker 2: and two hundred pound more of those classic. Uh, you
Speaker 2: know Green Bay receivers in terms of the physical profile,
Speaker 2: Jayden Reed is not. And this is going to be
Speaker 2: a very interesting addition in in addition to what he
Speaker 2: did as a return specialist at Michigan State as well.
Speaker 2: This is a very very interesting addition to Matt Lafleur's system.
Speaker 3: As I've said numerous times now, it's always interesting to
Speaker 3: see what the Packers' off season emphasis is and how
Speaker 3: that ultimately correlates to the team that they build for
Speaker 3: the upcoming season. With looking just strictly at Reid for
Speaker 3: a second last year, Christian Watson, he did some of
Speaker 3: the jet sweep stuff, he did some of the backfield stuff.
Speaker 3: But right away at the end of the year and
Speaker 3: especially getting reiterated at the NFL scouting combine, Matt Lafuer said,
Speaker 3: you know, they want to get him going downfield. They
Speaker 3: want to get Romeo Dobbs the vertical routes going, expanding
Speaker 3: their road trees, making them top perimeter receivers in this league.
Speaker 3: You expected that there would be a slot type receiver,
Speaker 3: a jet sweep type option that might come out of
Speaker 3: this year's draft in Boyle Boy. Does Reid fit that?
Speaker 3: I mean This is a kid that did and wore
Speaker 3: a lot of those different hats at Michigan State. He
Speaker 3: offers you some punt returning flexibility. He's a guy that
Speaker 3: is willing to play on coverage teams, although if if
Speaker 3: he shines the way he did at Michigan State, he
Speaker 3: probably won't have to very often. I'm just so excited
Speaker 3: to see him, you know, come into the picture here.
Speaker 3: I made no bones about it, Mike. When you and
Speaker 3: I talked last week, I was really big on Jackson
Speaker 3: Smith and Jigba still really big on that kid. I
Speaker 3: can't wait to see what he does in Seattle. Seattle
Speaker 3: has such a great track record for developing, you know,
Speaker 3: that young talent right away and getting him on the field,
Speaker 3: whether it's a you know, a you know, a Metcalf
Speaker 3: or you know the slot receiver there that they had.
Speaker 3: I almost said the Randall Cobb, you know kind of
Speaker 3: look alike, but no, I mean, the fact of the
Speaker 3: matter is, I just feel like Jiden Reid is going
Speaker 3: to come in here four four five speed, being able
Speaker 3: to make an impact right away, that the possibility is
Speaker 3: there for all these young guys to play right off
Speaker 3: the bat. And uh, I just see Reid as a
Speaker 3: guy that's going to really flourish in this scheme.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Elsewhere on the offensive side, you mentioned how the
Speaker 2: Packers kind of hit on all of the all the
Speaker 2: perimeter positions. Loun Nichols drafted in the seventh round running
Speaker 2: back out of Central Michigan, and then also in the
Speaker 2: fifth round, Sean Clifford, the quarterback from Penn State. I'll
Speaker 2: start with the running back first. Nichols really interesting guy here,
Speaker 2: much like much like Tay Wicks from Virginia. Twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one was really his big college season. Nichols had eighteen
Speaker 2: hundred rushing yard sixteen touchdowns for Central Michigan in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one. Then in twenty twenty two, he dealt with
Speaker 2: some injuries, was limited a little bit, sounded like he
Speaker 2: was trying to play through, you know, playing in some
Speaker 2: games where he wasn't close to one hundred percent. Central
Speaker 2: Michigan also had two offensive linemen from the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one from their twenty twenty one group that were drafted.
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen every year at a school like Central Michigan,
Speaker 2: where two offensive linemen are are drafted in the NFL
Speaker 2: the same year so there was a lot of transition
Speaker 2: going on there. But Nichols, I mean right away, Packers, No,
Speaker 2: obviously it's the Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon show at
Speaker 2: running back. But yeah, have Patrick Taylor, you have Tyler Goodson,
Speaker 2: and now you'll have Lou Nichols in that mix. As
Speaker 2: in that mix to see who the number three running
Speaker 2: back is going to be.
Speaker 3: It's funny listening to Nichols to talk about it. You know,
Speaker 3: Mike so many times, the small NFL circles, just you know,
Speaker 3: the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, if you will, how
Speaker 3: these things go. Nichols his college coach at Central Michigan.
Speaker 3: His position coach is actually the same one that Aaron
Speaker 3: Jones had throughout his time at Texas El Paso. Just
Speaker 3: funny how those dominoes work. So he's very familiar with Jones,
Speaker 3: He's very familiar with AJ Dillon. And when you look
Speaker 3: at it on paper, Mike, the way he matches up
Speaker 3: from a measurable standpoint in the fact that he's five
Speaker 3: to eleven, two hundred and twenty pounds. This has been
Speaker 3: a recurring story for the Packers over the last ten years.
Speaker 3: These are the type of backs they like as awesome
Speaker 3: as Aaron Jones is and as incredible future Packers Hall
Speaker 3: of Famer the career he's had here. They like those
Speaker 3: two hundred and twenty pound kind of bellcow you know backs,
Speaker 3: and and Nichols has done it at a really high level.
Speaker 3: Eighteen hundred rushing yards and sixteen touchdowns is awesome. You
Speaker 3: need a good offensive line to do it, but it
Speaker 3: says something about the talent of the kid as well.
Speaker 3: And then just to close really quickly on Sean Clifford,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever recall maybe Graham Harrell
Speaker 3: would be the last time someone's come in that's had
Speaker 3: as decorated of a college career as Clifford had over
Speaker 3: ten thousand passing yards eighty six touchdowns. This kid beat
Speaker 3: out Will Levis for the for Penn State's quarterback job
Speaker 3: three years ago. He knows what it's like to be
Speaker 3: in the fire and definitely carries himself with, you know,
Speaker 3: a leadership and sort of a confidence that I think
Speaker 3: you really need from that position. And just to mention
Speaker 3: this too, because people asking, well fifth round, why fifth round? Well,
Speaker 3: you listened to Brian Goodigun's talk about it, where the
Speaker 3: Packers got him. Not only did they feel like that
Speaker 3: was the best value in the best fit, there wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily a lot of guys underneath him that they valued
Speaker 3: in that same way, and certainly they wanted to bring
Speaker 3: in another their quarterback. And now they got a pretty
Speaker 3: good prospect here in Clifford.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Clifford one. I believe it's thirty two wins during
Speaker 2: his you know, he started forty six games I think
Speaker 2: at the college level at Penn State, which is which
Speaker 2: is pretty remarkable. There are actually a few guys in
Speaker 2: this draft class that that really were four year starters,
Speaker 2: in some cases five year starters, and Clifford will be
Speaker 2: thrown thrown right in there. It's it's Sean Clifford or
Speaker 2: Danny Eettling right now for the number two job behind
Speaker 2: behind Jordan Love. So the so the Packers are going
Speaker 2: to see, you know, see how that shakes out. Brian
Speaker 2: Gudakunz did not close the door necessarily on signing a
Speaker 2: veteran quarterback, but I think he's gonna he wants to
Speaker 2: see what how Ettling and Clifford do with the reps
Speaker 2: that they will be given during OTAs. As you know,
Speaker 2: as the backup competition gets going behind love there, so
Speaker 2: before we shift gears to the defensive side, take care
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Speaker 2: of better. All right, on the defensive side, That's where
Speaker 2: the Packers began this draft, sitting at number thirteen overall
Speaker 2: in the first round, and things, you know, went fairly predictably.
Speaker 2: Maybe there were a couple of surprises in there. But
Speaker 2: you and I both talked about it quite a bit
Speaker 2: in our preview shows leading up to the draft that
Speaker 2: Lucas van Ness, the edge rusher from Iowa, was was
Speaker 2: a potential, a very strong candidate for the Packers to
Speaker 2: select in the middle of the first round. And sure
Speaker 2: enough he was there and the Packers took him. And
Speaker 2: this is this is a young man. I'll say this.
Speaker 2: It he's twenty one years old. He's going to turn
Speaker 2: twenty two just before the start of training camp. He
Speaker 2: really only played two years at Iowa. I don't want
Speaker 2: to hear all this stuff about how he didn't start
Speaker 2: any games or whatever. It's like, Come on, the kid
Speaker 2: played a ton of football, all right. The whole starting
Speaker 2: thing was just because of Iowa's you know, procedure with
Speaker 2: their fifty year seniors and their veteran players and all that.
Speaker 2: Lucas van Ness was a star on a really good
Speaker 2: Iowa defense. Okay, So I don't want to hear this
Speaker 2: about the not starting games. But this pick feels a
Speaker 2: lot to me like the Rashaan Gary pick from a
Speaker 2: few years ago. A young guy who the Packers believe
Speaker 2: has not reached his potential at all, who has lined
Speaker 2: up both inside and outside, as far as along the
Speaker 2: defensive front and getting after the passer. The biggest difference here,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, with the van s pick versus the
Speaker 2: Gary pick, is Gary was chosen right after the Packers
Speaker 2: had just signed Zadarius and Preston Smith to be the
Speaker 2: starting out linebackers. Lucas van Ness is coming in at
Speaker 2: a time that the Packers don't know when Rashawon Gary
Speaker 2: is going to be back. You have Preston Smith on
Speaker 2: the one edge. This is a young man who could
Speaker 2: come in and start right away. That was not the
Speaker 2: expectation for Rashaon Gary. It very well could end up
Speaker 2: being the expectation for van Ness.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've never really seen a situation like this before, Mike,
Speaker 3: where you have a rookie that's coming in that could
Speaker 3: potentially be playing right off the bat, I mean at
Speaker 3: the edge rushing position. I mean, even to go back
Speaker 3: and think about Clay Matthews, I mean Aaron Campman was
Speaker 3: also kind of you know peer, you know, earmarked for
Speaker 3: that outside rusher position. Clay was not a guy that
Speaker 3: they even necessarily thought about that Nick Perry, you had
Speaker 3: Mike Neil and certainly as you talked about with the
Speaker 3: Smith bros. In Rashaan Gary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Clay Matthews, I don't think. I don't think he
Speaker 2: started until like his fourth or fifth NFL game. He
Speaker 2: was not a starter the first month of the season
Speaker 2: his rookie year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's it. It is a process. But in
Speaker 3: this case with Vaness, it makes so much sense. And
Speaker 3: I talked a lot about you know my head going
Speaker 3: with my heart with that first round pick. Certainly, as
Speaker 3: I've talked about numerous times, JSN was my heart. But
Speaker 3: in my head it's always about tackles and edge rushers
Speaker 3: for the Packers. In the first round, you just don't
Speaker 3: find that type of talent that separates itself from the
Speaker 3: rest of its position, quite like outside rusher and quite
Speaker 3: like tackle. Why because they're the ones that are most
Speaker 3: directly tied to the quarterback, pressuring the quarterback and protecting them.
Speaker 3: And Lucas Vaness where he really benefited last year mic
Speaker 3: as everybody's so tied up on this starting business, is
Speaker 3: the fact that he was able to put tape out
Speaker 3: there against Paris Johnson, he was able to put tape
Speaker 3: out there against Peter Skronsky, and it is impressive. This
Speaker 3: isn't some kid that just got a bunch of TFLs
Speaker 3: and pressures and sacks against you know so and so from.
Speaker 1: The directional states of the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't like it was just the fill
Speaker 3: in non conference games. This guy did it the big
Speaker 3: ten level six five, two seventy two at twenty one
Speaker 3: years old. That is a kid with big pause man
Speaker 3: and I'm excited to see him grow into the spot.
Speaker 3: You can play him early on if you need to,
Speaker 3: in that rotation with Kingsley Andigbari and Justin Hollins. Later on,
Speaker 3: if Rashan Gary comes back, you can maybe push him inside.
Speaker 3: A lot of flexibility in how Lucas Vansu could affect
Speaker 3: this defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned, you know, as the with the
Speaker 2: Packers sitting in the middle of the first round, and
Speaker 2: we had talked last week about you know, it's probably
Speaker 2: as much as there's been all to talk about the
Speaker 2: receivers and the tight ends, it's probably going to be
Speaker 2: you know, a bigger guy in edge rusher or an
Speaker 2: offensive tackle. And I have to give you credit because
Speaker 2: we didn't mention this in the review of the offense.
Speaker 2: You had said on our one of our draft preview
Speaker 2: shows that if the Packers are going to get an
Speaker 2: offensive tackle, you probably get one right away in the
Speaker 2: first round. But if you don't get one of those
Speaker 2: guys right away in the first round, then maybe you
Speaker 2: don't even bother Because the Packers are bringing back thirteen
Speaker 2: offensive lineman from last year's roster and practice squad, which
Speaker 2: is an unprecedented number of guys coming back, and sure
Speaker 2: enough what happened. The one position the Packers did not
Speaker 2: address was offensive line. The top tackles. You know, I
Speaker 2: believe three of the top four tackles were gone by
Speaker 2: the time the Packers were ready to pick. They decided
Speaker 2: to go with edge rusher and van Ness and then
Speaker 2: the offensive tackles they just let it go from there.
Speaker 2: It made sense from a strategic standpoint. That being said,
Speaker 2: I will also say that I think one of the
Speaker 2: things I said on one of our draft preview shows
Speaker 2: with regard to the defensive line is this felt like
Speaker 2: a draft where the Packers were going to have to
Speaker 2: find some potential prospects on the third day on the
Speaker 2: defensive line because of the edge rusher, the receiver, the
Speaker 2: tight end, and the spots that you were probably going
Speaker 2: to address on the first two days in terms of
Speaker 2: the guys at the top of those positions. And sure enough,
Speaker 2: Colby wooden't from Auburn is drafted in the fourth round,
Speaker 2: and then Carl Brooks from Bowling Green in the sixth round,
Speaker 2: a couple of Day three defensive line prospects that frankly
Speaker 2: West are really really intriguing because Colby Wooden he he
Speaker 2: dropped down into the two seventies weight wise for the
Speaker 2: combine and he was able to actually crack four. I
Speaker 2: think he cracked four eight. He was in the four
Speaker 2: to sevens in the forty. But he basically plays, you know,
Speaker 2: he plays in like the mid two eighties and and
Speaker 2: sounds like he has the he has the frame to
Speaker 2: uh to carry that and possibly a little bit more
Speaker 2: and it got uh. You know, Carl Brooks from Bowling
Speaker 2: Green three hundred pounds and his last year at Bowling
Speaker 2: Green eighteen tackles for loss, ten ten sacks among that bunch.
Speaker 2: As as an interior defensive lineman. Those are those are
Speaker 2: some numbers that are that are pretty impressive. Now, obviously
Speaker 2: doing that in the MAC is not the same as
Speaker 2: doing that and maybe the big ten of the SEC
Speaker 2: because of the offensive lineman across from you. And that's
Speaker 2: why a guy like Carl Books with those numbers, you know,
Speaker 2: lasts until the sixth round. Both of those guys for
Speaker 2: a Packers defensive line that lost Dean Lowry and Jaron
Speaker 2: Reid in free agency and you're trying to rebuild some
Speaker 2: depth there. I think those are two really really interesting prospects.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they don't do what the guys that are
Speaker 3: coming back do. You know you had TJ. Slayton as
Speaker 3: your run stuffer from two years ago. You need him
Speaker 3: to play that one tech role you had DeVante Why
Speaker 3: coming in sort of filling the shoes there having that prototype.
Speaker 3: Much like Kenny Clark, you need to add some more versatility,
Speaker 3: a little bit more different looks, I think to that
Speaker 3: defensive front. They very much did that with these two prospects.
Speaker 3: If I can really quickly just diving into Brooks for
Speaker 3: a second, one thing that I want to give lance
Speaker 3: Erline a shout out from NFL dot com on this
Speaker 3: because I really enjoyed his write up on Brooks. You know,
Speaker 3: he said, there's going to be a lot of people
Speaker 3: might because you just alluded to that, are gonna kind
Speaker 3: of knock him a little bit for a while. He
Speaker 3: went up against the Mac. He said that would be
Speaker 3: a mistake if you look at this kid's film, and
Speaker 3: mil Hendrickson also touched on this and many times he
Speaker 3: was a man amongst boys. He dominated at that level
Speaker 3: and he did it for five years. Mike, this is
Speaker 3: the guy that led Bowling Green four times in sacks,
Speaker 3: including his true freshman year. The only year he didn't
Speaker 3: was his junior season when they only played five games
Speaker 3: because of COVID and he heard his foot and was
Speaker 3: out for two of them, and he still had two
Speaker 3: sacks and three games. This is a really intriguing guy.
Speaker 3: And to correct myself earlier, when I was talking about
Speaker 3: edge rushers in twenty twelve, it was Nick Perry and
Speaker 3: Eric Walden, not Mike Neil. I want to bring up
Speaker 3: Neil though, because Neil's kind of reminds me a little
Speaker 3: bit of what they're doing with wood and two. These
Speaker 3: guys that are probably a little bit more athlete than
Speaker 3: your traditional stereotypical linemen. These guys, I mean, you've seen
Speaker 3: some of these videos of Wooden and even just kind
Speaker 3: of looking at him, he's a grown man. I mean,
Speaker 3: this guy is an athlete, and I'm very excited to see,
Speaker 3: you know, Jerry Montgomery getting two talented players that have
Speaker 3: very contrasting skill sets, but yet could both still be
Speaker 3: factors in the middle of that defensive line. Just the
Speaker 3: type of moves you need to make again, like tight end.
Speaker 3: They graduated a lot of snaps off this team with
Speaker 3: Lowery and Reid leaving in free agency, they got two
Speaker 3: guys that could potentially step in and help fill those roles.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean anytime anytime you see solid sack numbers from
Speaker 2: an interior rushing position, it's got to catch your eye.
Speaker 2: And as I said with Brooks, it was in the
Speaker 2: MAC at Bowling Green, but he had ten of them.
Speaker 2: And you're talking Wooden at Auburn that's in the SEC
Speaker 2: and he had six, I mean a half a dozen
Speaker 2: sacks in a league like that. When when you're rushing
Speaker 2: from an interior position and not off the edge, that's
Speaker 2: that says you're you're a disruptor, you know, on the inside,
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what the Packers are hoping that
Speaker 2: these two young men can become for their defensive line
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll just mention really quickly on Brooks if
Speaker 3: people want to talk about that at Bowling Breen's. But
Speaker 3: this kid was he was the focal point. Everybody's attention
Speaker 3: was on him. It's not like Bowling Green had this
Speaker 3: huge dominant defense. He was the guy you had to stop.
Speaker 3: And yet most teams in the MAC could not do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: In the seventh round on the defensive side, a couple
Speaker 2: of picks in the secondary, Carrington Valentine from Kentucky Anthony
Speaker 2: Johnson Junior from Iowa State. Valentine a cornerback, Johnson Junior
Speaker 2: a safety, but a converted cornerback who in his fifth
Speaker 2: year for the Cyclones in Ames Iowa, converted to safety.
Speaker 2: These these are seventh round picks that that qualify as
Speaker 2: as value selections WES because there are a lot of analysts,
Speaker 2: not saying everybody, but a lot of analysts had both
Speaker 2: of these guys rated as going much much earlier in
Speaker 2: the draft than they did, and the Packers picked up
Speaker 2: both of them in the seventh round. Obviously, the Packers
Speaker 2: have quite a bit more depth in terms of in
Speaker 2: terms of proven players who have starred to you know,
Speaker 2: log the snaps and all that at cornerback than they
Speaker 2: do at safety. So Johnson Junior maybe will have, you know,
Speaker 2: a larger chance to compete for a bigger role on
Speaker 2: defense right away. But then you also see both of
Speaker 2: these prospects potentially helping out on special teams because they
Speaker 2: you know, they play that position and have the body
Speaker 2: type and the speed and all that to help in
Speaker 2: that phase.
Speaker 3: First off, just starting quickly on Valentine because I'll tell
Speaker 3: you this, Mike, you had to use a pick on him,
Speaker 3: because if he was going to be an undrafted free agent,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure mel Kuiper would have just given him
Speaker 3: money and signed him himself. I mean, he was that
Speaker 3: high on the kid. I get it, he had one
Speaker 3: interception in college. But as he said, he's a pressman corner.
Speaker 3: I mean that's his style. He watched JayR Alexander a lot.
Speaker 3: I mean that he is the type of guy that
Speaker 3: he wants to take away aside of the field. He
Speaker 3: doesn't just want to have get thrown at every single
Speaker 3: time and get all these picks. That's the type of
Speaker 3: style he plays. He came out at twenty one years
Speaker 3: old because he feels like he's still He was ready
Speaker 3: for it, and I'm excited to see the young man
Speaker 3: come in here because I think if the Packers did
Speaker 3: have a need at cornerback, it was as perimeter base.
Speaker 3: They have a lot of guys who can play the slot,
Speaker 3: but with Eric Stokes still coming back from that knee
Speaker 3: and ankle injury, they needed some young prospects on the perimeter.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you this, Mike, you didn't get a chance
Speaker 3: to jump on the call. You were working on a
Speaker 3: wrap up story. But Anthony Johnson Junior, when I heard him,
Speaker 3: I closed my eyes. I heard Micah Hyde in his voice,
Speaker 3: and I don't know how he's going to play. I'm
Speaker 3: not comparing him to a two time All Pro safety,
Speaker 3: but he has a confidence in a leadership about him
Speaker 3: that it grabs you through the conference call. Sixty two games,
Speaker 3: a school record, fifty four starts. He was ready last
Speaker 3: year to turn pro three and a half years as
Speaker 3: a starting cornerback, but he didn't have a pick. And
Speaker 3: the thing was as Matt Campbell, Iowa States coach, went
Speaker 3: to him and they are as tight as tight can
Speaker 3: be in terms of coach and player relationships. And he
Speaker 3: said to him, listen, I'm talking to scouts around the league.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of people in the National Football
Speaker 3: League that think you are as safety. I want you
Speaker 3: to come back. I want you to lead our defense.
Speaker 3: I want you to play that position. And Johnson agreed,
Speaker 3: and it was the right move for him. And as
Speaker 3: he said, instead of going to the NFL, maybe forcing
Speaker 3: your hand and having to learn a new position at
Speaker 3: that level, he wanted the opportunity to actually do that
Speaker 3: at the college level and develop his skills. His pay
Speaker 3: for that was a second team All Big Twelve selection.
Speaker 3: He got his first two interceptions of his career, a
Speaker 3: career high sixty tackles, and this guy now is coming
Speaker 3: too the league. He said he always wanted to play quarterback. Well,
Speaker 3: when he went and played safety, he started to finally
Speaker 3: give taste of what that feels like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I want to mention the kicker Andrews Carlson,
Speaker 2: the Packers drafted out of Auburn in the sixth round.
Speaker 2: I mentioned him right now because I kind of want
Speaker 2: to make an overarching point about a few competitions that
Speaker 2: we're going to see evolve here. I already mentioned with
Speaker 2: regard to Sean Clifford and Danny Ettling. At quarterback, Brian
Speaker 2: Gudakutz not necessarily shutting the door on bringing in a
Speaker 2: veteran quarterback at some point, but he wants to see
Speaker 2: how those guys do through you know, through OTAs and
Speaker 2: and and how that competition develops. It's very much the
Speaker 2: same scenario, so to speak. I think at safety, Anthony
Speaker 2: Johnson Junior comes in the only new addition to the
Speaker 2: safety competition for who's going to start next to Darnell Savage.
Speaker 2: Rudy Ford would probably be the favorite in the clubhouse
Speaker 2: right now. The Packers also signed to various more from
Speaker 2: San Francisco as a free agent. You also have Innis
Speaker 2: Gains and down Levitt there now Johnson gets thrown into
Speaker 2: the mix. Adrian Amos is still out there as an
Speaker 2: unsigned free agent. Brian Goudakun said, not necessarily going to
Speaker 2: you know, going to slam that door shut, but the
Speaker 2: Packers are going to see how the competition evolves. The
Speaker 2: third one in sort of that group is the is kicker.
Speaker 2: You now have Anders Carlson from Auburn, a six round
Speaker 2: draft pick to compete with Parker White, who is undrafted
Speaker 2: out of South Carolina a year ago, and the Packers
Speaker 2: added him to the roster right after the regular season
Speaker 2: ended last year. Mason Crosby is still out there again
Speaker 2: it you know, Brian Gudokun says, hey, we're not We're
Speaker 2: not completely closing the door, but the Packers are going
Speaker 2: to see how these competitions develop and evolve through the spring,
Speaker 2: through OTA's mandatory mini camp in June, all of that,
Speaker 2: and then assess the situations. Now obviously there's a risk
Speaker 2: that Mason Crosby could sign somewhere else in the meantime,
Speaker 2: that Adrian Amos could sign somewhere else in the meantime,
Speaker 2: that the veteran quarterbacks that maybe fit, you know, the
Speaker 2: salary cap situation the Packers are in, they might sign
Speaker 2: somewhere else in the meantime. So there's risk in taking
Speaker 2: this approach, But at the same time, it does speak
Speaker 2: to the confidence that Brian Gudokunz and his personnel staff
Speaker 2: have in these moves that they've made and the players
Speaker 2: that they brought in. They think they think they've got
Speaker 2: what they need here without having to bring back those
Speaker 2: veteran guys that that they know exactly what they're going
Speaker 2: to get when they walk in the door.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they'll get a taste of it right away, Mike,
Speaker 3: between rookie orientation camp, between OTAs, they'll get a feel
Speaker 3: for where these players are at and where they potentially
Speaker 3: may need to add down the line. The thing I
Speaker 3: like about Andres Carlson and also you're talking about Tynan
Speaker 3: in the competition. Also Tynan, guys that had really stand
Speaker 3: out seasons during college but maybe didn't quite end their
Speaker 3: college careers on a high note when you talk about Nichols,
Speaker 3: when you talk about Wis and in Carl's situated, Carlson
Speaker 3: situation too. This young man had a fantastic junior season,
Speaker 3: but then it goes and tears the ACL last year
Speaker 3: he has the shoulder injury. He actually kicked on his
Speaker 3: plant foot with a brace last season. That's not ideal
Speaker 3: for a kicker, but it's you know, everyone takes that
Speaker 3: pretty seriously at the college level. But six foot five,
Speaker 3: two hundred and nineteen pounds. We know what his brother
Speaker 3: has done in the league now, a two time All Pro.
Speaker 3: He has the digit genetics for this. And as much
Speaker 3: as I love Jake Moody and I am a huge
Speaker 3: fan of his, I think he's going to have a
Speaker 3: great career. Taking a third round kicker in the third round,
Speaker 3: like the forty nine ers did, is a dangerous proposition,
Speaker 3: not because even the pressure you put on the kid,
Speaker 3: it's also the pressure you put on yourself as an organization.
Speaker 3: You can't cut a third round pick. He has to
Speaker 3: be the guy. And if you do have to bring
Speaker 3: in another kicker, are you necessarily going to also cut
Speaker 3: the guy that you just spent that type of draft
Speaker 3: pick on it's tough to do same thing with New
Speaker 3: England going and getting the Maryland kid in the fourth round.
Speaker 3: The sixth round has been a sweet spot for the Packers.
Speaker 3: A kicker the eleventh time they've taken one. Very interested
Speaker 3: to see how this young man does. And certainly the
Speaker 3: competition now that we'll see probably throughout OTA's and is
Speaker 3: the Packers try to figure out this next step at
Speaker 3: what has been an iconic for position for them. When
Speaker 3: you look at Mason Crosby, Ryan Longwell, Chris Jackie, I
Speaker 3: mean to have that type of stretch. We talk about
Speaker 3: quarterbacks so often, but the remarkable players the Packers have
Speaker 3: had a kicker, considering the elements here in Green Bay,
Speaker 3: it really cannot go overstated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it was interesting seeing the selection of Carlson,
Speaker 2: you know, immediately looking up the information on him, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course he is the younger brother of Daniel Carlson,
Speaker 2: who I hadn't remembered this but had also kicked at Auburn.
Speaker 1: So Auburn's had.
Speaker 2: Basically like nineteen years ten and I was gonna say ten,
Speaker 2: but nine years with with with A Carlson as the kicker.
Speaker 2: But was what was interesting to me is hearing Brian
Speaker 2: gudukuns you know really, you know, essentially hand this pick off.
Speaker 2: So to speak to the influence of Rich Bassacia, the
Speaker 2: Packers special teams coordinator and now assistant head coach. We saw,
Speaker 2: we saw the influence that Basaci had in how the
Speaker 2: Packers rebuilt the special teams last year with the acquisitions,
Speaker 2: with bringing guys in like dal Levitt, like Keishawn Nixon
Speaker 2: and guys that he guys that he had worked with,
Speaker 2: and obviously that there was a solid turnaround in the
Speaker 2: special team's phase. And then Rich Bassaccia gets, you know,
Speaker 2: the additional title in the offseason, and now here the
Speaker 2: faith that the Packers are showing where it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: the statistics of this, you know, this Carlson kicker is
Speaker 2: last couple of years in college. They're not that great whatever,
Speaker 2: and Bisacia believes in them from what we heard from
Speaker 2: Brian Gudacuntz, and that's what gave Gutakunz the courage to
Speaker 2: make this pick when a lot of people are just
Speaker 2: going to look at the numbers and go, you know,
Speaker 2: why would you take a college kicker who missed you
Speaker 2: know ten twelve kicks his last two seasons when he
Speaker 2: had the one really really good year before he got hurt.
Speaker 3: And all that.
Speaker 2: So we're continue My point is we're continuing to see
Speaker 2: the influence of Rich Bisacia on special teams here, and
Speaker 2: the Packers are going to see what these kickers, Carlson
Speaker 2: and White, what they have and see if it truly
Speaker 2: is time to move on from Mason Crosby. The franchise
Speaker 2: is all time leading scorer.
Speaker 3: One thing that is very important to illustrate is I
Speaker 3: think when you look at both scouting and coaching, I
Speaker 3: don't know if there's a more difficult position. People put
Speaker 3: so many eyes on quarterback, and for good reason, it's
Speaker 3: the money position. There are no certain things with kickers.
Speaker 3: We saw it a number of years ago with the
Speaker 3: second round pick that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers used. These guys,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be an EBB and flow league. And I
Speaker 3: think Carlson's a perfect example that the older Carlson. You know,
Speaker 3: Daniel Carlson's a fifth round pick. He goes to Minnesota.
Speaker 3: He has a couple of bad games, including one against
Speaker 3: the Packers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one here at Lamba was when he lost
Speaker 2: his job with the Vikings, and then that's what obviously
Speaker 2: leads to him landing in Oakland and he works with
Speaker 2: Rich Bisaccia and become becomes an All Pro kicker, and
Speaker 2: then Bisachi gets to know the younger brother and now
Speaker 2: that younger brother is is with Bisaci here in Green Bay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's one thing to be an all Pro,
Speaker 3: I should say, an All American. But and you give
Speaker 3: credit to Daniel Carlson for picking himself up and making
Speaker 3: him into the player that he is today. But it
Speaker 3: takes someone like Rich Bissaci to have some faith in him,
Speaker 3: and obviously the Raiders to bring a kid like that
Speaker 3: in and give him a shot after things didn't end
Speaker 3: so well in Minnesota. So there is so much projection
Speaker 3: involved because unless you are you know, a Justin Tucker
Speaker 3: or Mason Crosby where you just have this prodigious run
Speaker 3: in college, guys are going to miss field goals. It
Speaker 3: just happens. I mean, it is a tough thing to
Speaker 3: kick in college, let alone the National Football League. So
Speaker 3: I just I like the pick up in terms of
Speaker 3: being able to finally make that investment the first time
Speaker 3: in sixteen years. The Green Bay Packers have drafted a kicker. Again.
Speaker 3: We'll see how things go. It's much different kicking in
Speaker 3: Green Bay than it is in Auburn or it is
Speaker 3: in South Carolina. So you know, you take these things
Speaker 3: as they come, but certainly they got a real nice
Speaker 3: prospect in that position for Rich Basaci to start his
Speaker 3: work with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no question about it.
Speaker 2: Well, we've gone a little bit beyond our normal length.
Speaker 1: Of show, so this is becoming the new normal.
Speaker 3: Mic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I know now that now that we're not
Speaker 2: in the same room together, and you know, we're trying
Speaker 2: to we're trying to figure out the new rhythm here
Speaker 2: while while we have.
Speaker 1: The technical issues. But that being said, we will call
Speaker 1: it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Speaker 2: We'll talk more about the draft, view more things with
Speaker 2: the draft on our second show later this week, so
Speaker 2: be sure to tune in for that. But for now,
Speaker 2: for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody,
Speaker 2: and we will see you next time.