WEBVTT - Our Dark and Twisted Future 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.800 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKA F Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:21.799 me your girl, Danielle Moody recording prerecording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.279 there has been so much that has been happening with 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.840 regard to our laws in this country and what we 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.920 once thought were laws of the land, like Rovie Wade, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:41.440 like marriage equality, like um the desegregation of schools plus 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:47.520 e versus Ferguson. All of our major civil rights wins 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.720 have not come through Congress, They have not come through 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.640 executive action. They have come through one place, and that 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.920 is our legal system, through the courts. Do you know 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.480 who knew that and with very aware of that fact, 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:07.720 Mitch McConnell when he orchestrated a plan to steal a 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.640 Supreme Court seat, a Supreme Court appointment from Barack Obama 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.399 by refusing to give Marrett Garland a hearing for over 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.720 a year. No pushback from Democrats, No, let's take Mitch 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.880 McConnell to court. It was all, let's play nice and 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.880 do nothing. And because of that, we now have a 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:30.920 six to three Supreme Court because Donald Trump got not one, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:37.000 not two, but three Supreme Court fucking justices. Right now, 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.320 Mitch McConnell couldn't have known how the election in twenty 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.240 was going to go, or did he right? Did he 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.880 know what the election was going to do in twenty sixteen? 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.600 Did he have any idea? No one knows because there's 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:55.640 never any investigation into these people. But the reality is 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.640 is that Mitch McConnell and Republicans have always paid attention 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.840 to the courts, and for the last close to fifty years, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.000 they have been working to overturn a woman and people 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:12.480 with uterus's ability to decide when, how and if they 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.000 start a family, when, how and if they have a child. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.200 What I have always found so frustrating about Republicans over 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.480 these decades is the fact that they don't actually give 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.560 a shit about kids. They don't give a fuck about 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.280 your families. If they did, then they would vote for 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:36.280 the policies like family leave, like child tax credits, like 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:41.200 any support that you can provide for children and families 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.280 you would do. We wouldn't have a child poverty or 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.200 a child hunger in this country if Republicans actually gave 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.600 a shit about kids outside of the uterus. But they don't. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.480 And you know what's frustrating is that they've never been 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.560 called out on their bullshit. They have never been made 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.760 to come to ask and say, how is it that 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.120 you talk about defending life in the life of a child, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:11.200 and yet when children are born you do nothing to 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.239 support their well being in them turning into healthy, happy, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:21.280 productive citizens. You're all hands off after that. So the 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.640 reality is, folks, that we are moving into really precarious 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.680 and dark times in this nation as it pertains to 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:34.760 women's rights, reproductive rights, and health. Abortion access is going 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.880 to be a thing of the past. While you have 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:42.560 countries like Mexico, for instance, who has just approved abortion 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.600 in their country, we are in America regressing backwards in 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.120 every single facet, in every single avenue, from voting rights 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.080 to abortion rights and everything in between. So on today's show, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.920 I'm very happy to bring on for this Powerhouse Week 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.360 of Women, to bring on my friend MSNBC legal analyst 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.480 and former federal prosecutor under Obama, Joyce White Vans, who 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.240 will walk through with us all of the things that 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.920 we need to be paying attention to with regard to 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.560 where our laws are going to what is going to 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:26.440 happen in June when the Supreme Court finally decides on 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.719 the Mississippi case, which is going to outlaw Rov Wade, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:36.080 and then we are going to have abortion asylums, sanctuaries 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:41.159 right in dotted across these United States until when until 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.080 a Republican takes control of the White House for the 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:50.000 final time and decides to withhold federal funding from states 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.359 that's still grant abortion. Right. Like, folks, where this is 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.960 headed is so dark. It is going to make the 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.120 Handmaid's Tale look like a fairy tale, look like a 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:08.640 children's story, because what we are facing in our reality 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.960 is so much starker than any of us can imagine. Now, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.200 Joyce will say something that I think is important, which 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.680 is her belief that she thinks that Republicans are going 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.479 to overreach and that what is going to happen before midterms. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.000 Before mid terms, we're going to see Rob Wade overturned, 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.120 and then women are going to march to the polls. 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.560 But here's the thing that I continue to be on 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.960 the fence. About fifty two percent of white women voted 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.120 for Donald Trump. Right, So these women who in fact 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:51.039 go and access abortion care then turn around and vote 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.839 against other people's ability to get the same care that 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.480 they just got in secret. So I don't know if 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.880 there actually is enough women with good goddamn sense, enough 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.440 people with good goddamn sense in this country to realize 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.000 what a dark and twisted future we are presenting without 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:18.440 women having bodily autonomy. Right, So I think that while 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.080 I want to believe that it is going to unfortunately 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.240 take us losing our rights and our freedoms in mass 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.599 because let's be clear, if you're a person of color, 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.680 you already know what time it is in this country, right. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.560 You already know that you are on borrow time, any 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.239 time that you get pulled over by police, any time 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:42.159 that there are horrible draconian laws that are rolled out, right, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.080 You're we're always at the bottom of the totem pole. 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.760 So we already know what time it is. But for 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.920 those people who are still holding on to privileges that 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.440 are not granted to people of color and people from 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.160 marginalized communities, when all of their rights start to go 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.279 is when folks will start to act. But my feeling 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.039 is that it's going to be too fucking late, right, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.440 It's going to be too late, and then what then? 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:13.480 What do we do? So I find myself these days, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:19.520 as you know, stories continue to you know, make news 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:24.960 that we haven't been vigilant all along, that it is 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.800 the complacency that comes with winning rights, that you assume 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:35.400 that those that are held bent on oppression will somehow 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.320 give up. But what we have seen is that Republicans 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.559 don't give up. Actually, they will continue the same fight 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.880 with the same playbook for decades. It is the rest 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.040 of us that think, oh, well, nothing's going to happen 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.280 to Roe v. Wade because we've been crying wolf for 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:59.000 so long. Well, maybe part of the strategy in twenty 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.000 sixteen should have been to talk about the Supreme Court 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.280 and to paint the actual picture of where we are 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.640 right now. Would have been for Democrats when Mitch McConnell 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.120 was going against the Constitution and not providing the black 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.120 president with the access to appoint as sitting Supreme Court justice, 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.840 that we would have took that motherfucker a court right 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.119 and not just said, oh, okay, that's fine, I guess 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.560 we don't get a Supreme Court justice, like we just 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.480 fucked the country because of our desire to play nice 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.880 with people who would rather beat you to death right 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:46.280 then play in this play by the rules. So I 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.480 don't know where we are headed. But this conversation with 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:55.880 Joyce was incredibly illuminating because there is a lot at stake. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.960 There is a lot that is coming down decisions that 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.600 are going to be made this summer by this conservative 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:07.360 sixty three Supreme Court that is going to radically change America. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.360 And that has always been their goal, is for there 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.160 to be a radical shift. And they knew that they 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.840 didn't have the policies or the platform to be able 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.640 to get voted in to do these things. They knew 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.560 that all they had to do was take over the 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.640 courts and create an apartheid system in America and then 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.400 all would be well. And I'll tell you I've said 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.280 this before. Things are going to get a lot darker 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.240 before they get better in this country. They are going 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.320 to get bloodier before they get better in this country. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.000 And I want folks to buckle up right and understand 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:45.840 that we have a long haul in front of us. Right. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.320 This arc that we've been walking on that we thought 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.600 was just going to casually begin to bend towards justice 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.520 is not. It is not happening. If we want justice, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.640 we are going to have to fight for it in 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.960 a variety of ways. Because they're not giving up the 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.240 fight to persecute women in this country, people of color, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:13.000 queer people, Muslims. I mean, I am concerned once again 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.160 about our desire to fight for democracy and fight for 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:20.120 freedom abroad and not recognize how it is being pulled 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.439 away one decision at a time in this country. So 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.360 coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with my friend 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:37.040 Joyce White Vans. Folks, I am so happy to welcome 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.920 back to wogay f our friend Joyce White Vans. You 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.680 know her. She is an MSNBC legal analyst. She's also 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.760 a professor at the University of Alabama Law School and 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:54.800 a former federal prosecutor under President Obama. Joyce, it is 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.800 so good to have you back. It's so nice to 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.000 hear your voice. I'm missing you in person, I know, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.880 I know, I want to know. You know. There's been, Joyce, 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.280 just so much legal news. I mean, every day is 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.800 another crazy headline, whether it's coming out of states like 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:21.360 Florida and Texas that are waging a war against uteruses 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:26.960 and reproductive health, whether it is another persecution or lack 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:32.440 thereof of persecution around those involved in the January sixth insurrection. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.280 I want to kind of start with the Handmaid's tale 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:42.240 that Republicans are hell bent in turning America into Give 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:47.000 us your insight into what you were thinking over the 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.200 last couple of months, as Texas and Florida are currently 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:57.199 volleying to be the worst state for women in the country. Yeah, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.600 you know, it's a real race to the bottom. And 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.960 I can fess I laughed a little bit when you 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.520 said Handmaid's tale, but only because our choices right now 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.200 are laughing or crying right right. Women are not in 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.520 a good place in this country. We are, of course 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.120 not alone, and I think the important first thing to 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.800 say is that we should all be thinking about allyship 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.560 now between communities of women who are under attack, between 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:26.840 the black community, immigrants communities, the LGBTQ community, and especially 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.960 the trans community. It's an important time for everybody to 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.800 stick together. But the attacks on women are particularly pernicious 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.760 because you know, we thought we were done with this. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.440 Roe versus Wade, which gives abortion rights is fifty years old. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.000 I fully expect that row will be reversed this year 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.439 when the Supreme Court hands down its opinion in a 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.199 Mississippi case. Parts of our lives that we have really 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.200 come to take for granted, for instance, you're right to 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.320 obtain birth control. I think those rights too, show some 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.800 increasing fragility under the lines of legal reasoning that this 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.160 newly conservative six three Supreme Court is willing to use. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.400 So let me just give you the recent update, Danielle. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.360 Just this week more bad news. We all know about 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.520 Texas's anti abortion bill. This is this vigilante justice style 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.120 bill where Texas says, well, maybe we passed this law, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.000 but we're not responsible for enforcing it. Because what we've 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.240 done is created a private right of action for anybody 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.720 out there in the country who learns that a woman 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:36.280 is getting an abortion. After six weeks, that person has 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.760 a right to sue anyone who enables that woman in 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.400 getting the abortion, and the monetary damages are serious. And 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.599 so what's happened is that there is no longer functionally 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.080 a right to an abortion in Texas. Women there have 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.640 to go out of state. So up to the plate 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.080 steps Idaho, which this week passed a copycat bill. Tennessee 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.160 has a new abortion bill that's modeled after the Texas bill, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.280 and something I guess I'll stop here, but I'll just 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.480 say we need to think about how these bills function 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.440 on the margins, and really the sort of poor it 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.640 could inflict upon women, because you could have a rapist 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.960 impregnate a minor, and either the miner's family or the 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.680 rapist's family could sue the woman if she sought an abortion. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.360 Can you imagine forcing an eleven year old girl to 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.840 carry a fetus the product of a rape to term. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.360 I just I mean, even the description of that choice 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.680 is so disturbing to me, and should be so disturbing 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.560 to every person inside of this country. That we are 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.160 at a place right now where we're watching countries like Mexico, 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:50.960 very religious, Catholic based countries like Mexico pass abortion throughout 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.040 the country, and here in America, where we have always 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.880 professed right to have these liberties and these justices and 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.560 all of these things, and yet one can't we don't 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.080 pay women what they're worth, and two, we tell them 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.600 that they don't have the control over their own bodies. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.720 And so when we are looking at these laws, I 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.080 think that what is really jarring right now is the 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.960 way that they are being written. Joyce, they are not 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.600 being written in a way that allows for straight and 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:25.000 clean prosecution. I feel as if Republicans and conservatives have 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.480 gotten hip to figuring out that they can write things 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.360 in a certain way that provides just as much threat 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.760 without it actually triggering action. Can you talk about the 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.000 ways in which the law in Texas that the vigilante 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.000 law that you just mentioned, was written, and how the 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.480 Tennessee law that was just announced, how that has been 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.480 written as well. Yeah, I think this is such an 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.640 important point. And when you talk about drafting laws, of course, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.920 we're the country that couldn't manage to adopt the Equal 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.720 Rights Amendment, which would have guaranteed women writes as citizens. 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.080 So I guess that's the baseline that we start as 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.840 even in the best of times, we weren't able to 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.960 adopt that provision because hahaha, women were fully equal in 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.360 our society and it was unnecessary. So you're dead on 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.960 the money about how these laws are being written. And 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.440 this isn't by accident. This is a deliberate effort to 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:28.360 craft laws that can survive muster, can survive review in 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.440 the courts. And so, for instance, the Texas statute as 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.960 I've mentioned, has this vigilante provision, and it would have 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.160 clearly been at least under current law as long as 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.720 Roe is good law, it would have been illegal if 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:49.040 you had flat out prohibited abortion after six weeks. That's 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.600 not what Texas does. They write this very vague statute. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.080 No one's actually sure what it means, but it suggests 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.160 that people, wherever they live, can sue any one doctor, 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.360 maybe an uber driver, right who gets a woman to 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.439 a facility where she's going to receive un abortion, and 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.639 any of those people are subject to suit. The lawsuits. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.679 You know, first off, you have to pay to defend 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.720 the lawsuit. If you're sued, that's not inconsequential. But the 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.040 damages are ten thousand dollars. And if you've got multiple 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.680 people out there suing you for ten thousand dollars at 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.520 a time, this ultimately just becomes a real barrier. And 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.199 so here's the ultimate expression of the uncertainty factor. What 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.159 is or isn't an abortion after six weeks. In a 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.760 recent case, a woman is having a miscarriage in Texas 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.760 and she needs to have a DNC to save her life. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.760 And in the middle of the miscarriage, the doctors put 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.399 her on a plane because they're afraid to perform the 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.920 abortion in Texas because they're not sure what their status 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.200 is under the law. And so you know, these medical 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.199 flights too, are very expensive. I don't know exactly how 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.840 much this one was, but you see figures in the 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.720 tens of thousands of dollars for these unplanned, life saving 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:10.360 medical flights. And it really I have to believe that 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.040 if the folks who wrote these laws thought through all 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.720 of these consequences, maybe they would back off a little bit. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.560 But perhaps I'm being too kind because these are people, 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.040 after all, who are willing to not have exceptions for 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:28.000 incest or for danger to the mother written into these laws. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.399 You know, today in America, some of the same folks 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.200 that are protesting being forced to wear a mask. I 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.159 think it's okay to force a minor to carry a 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.600 fetus to term. I just you know, Joyce, you have 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:45.920 been in this game for so long. Has there been 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:51.280 another time in our recent modern history where we have 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:56.879 seen such a legal assault on reproductive health, on abortion 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.960 for women. Has there been another time in scent history 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:09.640 that we've seen this kind of aggressive backlash. No, And 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.359 you know, this is sort of the perfect storm. This 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.320 was the product of at least fifty years of conservative 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.679 activism on the issue of abortion, which allowed the Republican 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.399 Party to convince its voters to vote for the most 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.439 marginal of candidates. Not naming any names, but Donald Trump 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.399 comes to mind. In their effort to control the federal courts, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.720 and they have been successful. There is now a six 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.679 three conservative majority on the Supreme Court. That's a safe vote. 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.520 So the Conservatives can and have lost the chief Justices 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.080 vote on cases and still come out with a majority, 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.800 which means you now have activism at the local, state 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:54.720 and federal level that's not friendly to women. I mean, 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.320 what are we going to do? What do you see? 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.879 I mean this decision, the Mississippi Court decision, which is 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:07.120 essentially going to overrule Roe v. Wade, which we all 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:12.639 thought was you know, cemented into our into our laws, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.520 into our country. It is not. What we are recognizing 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.639 now is that what we thought was a law of 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.800 the land is no longer. And I tell people that 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.760 conservatives will start at abortion because it's low hanging fruit, 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:26.679 fruit that they have been looking to pick for the 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.480 last forty five fifty years. But it's not the only 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.600 thing that they will come for. Marriage equality that they 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:38.360 will come for potentially, you know, the resegregation of schools 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.119 that they will come for things the justices and the 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.119 civil rights that have been received over the past several 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.439 decades have come through the courts, and so what is 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.879 the recourse here? What is the pushback that can happen 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:57.200 and should happen that we're not seeing right now. It's 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.000 such a hard question. I wish I had good answers 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:06.560 that I think. The best one is that abortion is 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.159 a state by state issue. That's the view that the 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:14.480 conservatives have always ascribed to. You know, I think a 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.720 nationwide abortion ban would run a foul of some of 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.320 their jurisprudence, although it's important to say that their jurisprudence 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.760 is inconsistent with when you're in the area of abortion, 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.720 and rules that apply in other cases don't seem to 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.520 apply when you have a results oriented abortion opinion brewing. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.760 But the real answer is to preserve the right to 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:41.359 abortion in as many states as possible. That's unfortunate because 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.359 it means women have to travel to preserve that specific right. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.360 There will be states that will take a stab at 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:54.520 outlying travel outside of their state. I think that that's 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:58.480 clearly unconstitutional, and Missouri legislators suggested this week that she 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.160 would propose such a bill, there a lot of pushbout, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.280 So I guess the answer is working to make sure 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.119 that your right to vote in your state, and in 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.760 your city and in your county is preserved. And of 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:12.840 course we live in a challenging time for the right 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:17.240 to vote as well. Oh Joyce, there is no good news. 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:22.119 I want to make a quick transition to go to 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:27.400 the latest with the January sixth insurrection. You know, recently 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.840 it came to light that the wife of Supreme Court 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:37.520 Justice Clarence Thomas, Jenny Thomas, was present at the Ellipses 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.959 the day of the insurrection. That she has also provided 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:47.920 resources that are being discovered, paying for buses for insurrectionists 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:52.120 to get to Washington, DC. We are learning so much 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:56.359 over the last several months of the investigation at the 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:03.160 Helm the House Commission, over five hundred interviews, subpoenas, thousands 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.920 of papers of paperwork. Where is the Department of Justice 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:10.919 on this? And has the commission, the White the House 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.840 January sixth Commission taken this as far as they can go? 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.960 So it's such a interesting question, you know. The first, 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:24.400 maybe the most important thing to say is we don't 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.960 know for sure what's going on at DJ. I don't 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.600 see some of the signs that I would expect to 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.040 see if DJ was conducting a long term grand jury investigation, 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.280 for instance, she would expect to see witnesses. You know, 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.320 DJ subpoenas of vunca trump to the grand jury. She's 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.560 not going to go in there quietly and testify, one 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:44.840 wouldn't think, And so you might hear a little bit 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.439 of noise. But there also are signs of life at DJ. 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:52.359 Of course, they did go ahead and subpoena phones of 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.159 one of the crack and lawyer's Sydney Powell. There have 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.920 been other signs of life like that. And Merrick Garla 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:04.240 and since his speech on January five, has been saying 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.199 all of the right things, the sorts of things that 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:12.199 if you're a former DOJ prosecutor like me, tell you 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.680 that there is a commitment to investigation. He says, we'll 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.560 follow the facts in the law no matter where they lead, 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.600 no matter whether you were there on January sixth or not. 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.960 And that suggests that there is some live investigation going on. 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:29.120 And you know, I think that there are two very 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.439 interesting things going on at the same time. One is 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:36.199 the January sixth Committee. They are doing fabulous work, and 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:40.080 they are. They are stacked top to bottom with former prosecutors. 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:43.960 The two lead counsel for the committee are both former 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:48.040 US attorneys, one a Republican, one a Democrat, and committee's 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.400 staff is filled out with people who are former prosecutors. 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.520 These are folks who know how to run an investigation, 0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:58.359 and we see the results that they're getting. We'll see 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:01.040 more when they have their public hearings, and I suspect 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:06.320 that those will be extraordinarily compelling. And at the same time, DOJ, 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:10.760 in its January sixth prosecutions, is starting to move up 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.639 the chain. You know, that's how prosecutors work. Typically, you 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:17.359 start with the people who are the least culpable. You 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.800 try to get them to cooperate and tell you about 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:24.119 people who are more criminally culpable. Well, DJ has worked 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:27.199 its way up to the leadership of some of the 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:31.199 organizations that were involved on January sixth. First, there was 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:36.040 the seditious conspiracy indictment for the Oathkeepers, inviting their leader 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.120 Stuart Rose right, a Yell educated lawyer, which is sort 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:43.040 of a weird detail. Seditious conspiracy is the most serious 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.360 charge DOJ has brought it. It involves an element of violence, 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.880 but they've also indicted members of the Proud Boys right 0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:54.199 sating their leader, Enrique Tario, and this is essentially for 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:59.680 obstruction of Congress and a conspiracy to obstruct Congress. And 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:05.120 evidence in these cases would seem to place dj awfully 0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:08.159 close to that Willard War Room where so much was 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.640 going on in advance of January sixth, and who knows 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:13.679 where that's going to lead. It could lead to the 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:17.720 former president, it might not. Their legal issues here currently 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:20.280 in the DC courts, there's a challenge to whether this 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:24.480 obstruction of Justice statute dj IS can be used in 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:27.520 these cases, and that's something that'll have to be decided 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.800