WEBVTT - Chris Difford 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.280 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sitts Podcast. 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.800 My guest today is Chris Clipper Squeeze. Chris Well. So 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.560 wonderful to be here. Okay, So where are you right 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.720 this very second? I'm in my garden shed and and 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.120 it's just blissed to be here. It's it's a kind 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.680 of spiritual place for me to be. Okay, So your shed, 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 which I can see, But this is an audio podcast. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.279 To what degreek can you do recording there? Well? I 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.080 don't because as primarily as a lyricist, I leave all 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.520 the recording to the clever people. Um, so I sit 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.639 here and do what I can do. So I've been 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.760 doing in lockdown zoom concerts and I've been doing um 0:00:53.000 --> 0:01:00.000 songwriting tutorials. Today I had sixteen people on my screen. Um. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.440 We were working on different songs together. It was it 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.280 was kind of weird but fun. Okay, how did you 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.520 decide to do the tutorials? Well, I've been running songwriting 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.680 camps for twenty six years. I first started Miles Copeland's 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.720 Castle in ninety one I think it was, and when 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.720 I drove home from France having been at his retreat, 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.319 which I loved it was fun. I just thought it 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.679 was a bit bit sort of type. You know, everybody 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.840 had to be involved in his company. So I came 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.280 home and I found a really big house in the country. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.560 I rented it with E. M. I Publishing, and we 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.240 got Lamont Dozier and we got Kirsty McCool and we 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.440 got sugs and Grand Gordman in the house along with 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.120 lots of other great people and we just sat and 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.800 wrote songs. And I've been doing it ever ever since. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.680 Is it lucrative. No, I never get paid for it. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.600 I just did it because I love it, and I 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.240 love putting people together, and I love hearing the songs. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.840 And have any successful financially commercially songs emerged from any 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.440 of these camps, well, not so much that, but more 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.240 the sort of friendships. Like Kathy Dennis was one of 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.440 the first people to come, and she ended up writing 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.239 with Kylie Minogan. She's got a multimillion pound publishing deal 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.840 and I don't, so she probably she probably write the 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.680 right songs and I didn't. But it's it's kind of 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.000 it's about friendships and about people that you meet and 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.480 about the songs that you write. After the week you know, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.640 it's kind of just like being in re rehab. And 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.400 to what degree can you teach songwriting? You can't. You 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.720 can't at all. That's what I found out. But but 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:39.760 what but what you can do is just put people 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.680 in a room and say to them, Okay, this is 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.000 the project, and you know, make make cups of tea 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.160 and just hope that people can cross polony. I think 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.960 that's the word that I would use, and they they do. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.280 So the people that I've been working with this week 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:59.480 are all sponsored by Help Musicians, which is a charity. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.680 So these they're all musicians that are out of work. 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.840 These are people that are struggling and they're eager to 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.760 do something different because they've been locked down for three months. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.080 So they come on the screen and I give them 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.320 various projects, and I put them in groups and they 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.000 go off and write songs and it's just amazing to 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.799 hear what they come back with. You know, it's just brilliant. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:25.760 And what might the assignment be? Well, the assignment? The 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.400 first one that I do is I asked them to 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:34.520 get a photograph from their house, choose a photograph, bring 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.720 it to the screen, show me the photograph, and then 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.640 I asked them to look at the photograph and take 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.800 it as inspiration for a lyric, and then they go 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.680 off for the day and then they come back with 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:50.080 a completed lyric based around the photograph that they've seen. 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.360 And I only know that it works because when I 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.360 wrote a song called label would Love for the East 0:03:55.400 --> 0:04:01.320 Side Story album, it was inspired by Cartier Bresson autograph 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.320 that I saw in a book around that apparent one, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.080 I think. And so these what about the music side 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.080 of it? Well, the music side is really up to them, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.760 what what they bring to the table. Some people are 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.560 very basic in the way that they recalled and that's great. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.120 And yet there are a couple of producers that have 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.479 been online today and they come back with almost the 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.159 finished product. And I'm sitting here with my chin on 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.520 the floor thinking, how do these guys do it? It's 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.960 just amazing. I just feel like a lazy sod, you know, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.919 But it's just brilliant the way they do it. Okay, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:42.640 and you have done how many since covid era? I'm 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:48.720 on my fifth week? Wow? Wow? So now you're located 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:54.200 near Brighton? Yeah, I'm about ten miles east of Brighton 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.200 in the South Downs. Next to right next to a 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:02.880 place called Charleston, and did you end up in that area? Well, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.400 it's a bit of a bit of a tale. I 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.440 was in a deep dark place and I read a 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.320 book this was how long ago were you in this 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:17.160 dark place? Ten years ago? And it's one of my 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.240 many dark holes that I've been in, but this one 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.760 was pretty dark. And I had read a book by 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:27.240 a vicar called Peter Owen Jones, and I went to 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.040 Brighton to hear him read from his book at the 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.280 bookshop and I queued up with the book to get 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.760 him to sign it. It was a very inspirational read 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.039 and when I met him, I said, I'd really like 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.640 to have one to one council with you. So he 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.680 invited me to the village that I now live in, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.400 and I sat with him for forty five minutes and 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.600 just spoke about how I felt, and he didn't say 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.000 a word. He just had a little cigarette on the go. 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.120 And then he turned to me and he said, you know, 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.919 well I think you need. It's community and what I 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.600 think he needed somewhere to live. And we walked outside 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.320 of his house just down the road and we walked 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.600 into a house and he said you will live here, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.120 and is that the house you're in exactly? So that 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.520 begs the question, to what degree are you integrated in 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.560 the community. Well, I've done lots of shows to raise 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.760 money for the roof of the church. I love the 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.279 community community here. It's a really special place. It's been 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.760 here since Henry the eighth time. This this particular village. 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.600 It's got the lord of the manor, but it's also 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.919 got the baker, you know, and it's also got the 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.440 pub and the post office. It's very gentle and it's 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.920 kind of completely different from being on a tour bus. 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.080 And that's why I like it. I think let's go 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.039 back to the beginning, speaking of the church, or you 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.320 will believer? Am I a believer like the monkeys? Yeah? 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.880 I suppose I am a believer in something. I'm a 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.240 believer in fate and unbeliever in in love, and I'm 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.400 a believer of commitment, I guess. But it's taken a 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.480 long time for that to happen. So I must admit 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.560 I don't find that much fulfillment from a lot of interactions. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:21.080 Do you find yourself getting fulfilled by talking to the banker, 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.600 baker in the other shop? People and do you see 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:29.040 any of these people outside of their work context. Not really. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.240 I mean I sort of come and go to the 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.960 village because I'm up. Until just recently, obviously I was 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:40.000 on the road all the time, so for instance, this year, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.200 I would have been away for five or six months. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:44.760 So to actually be at home in the village and 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.080 to get to know each other, there is a kind 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.960 of new experience for us all, and we all cover 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.520 for each other. It's kind of a lockdown village, and 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.480 I have to say it's like being what I would 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.080 imagine it would have been like in the set and 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.240 World War. One of the things at the beginning of 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.600 Lockdown that was quite odd was there was no sound 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:10.000 of airplanes in the sky because they stopped flying off obviously, 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.440 and whenever there was a plane, people would run into 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.880 the garden to see what it was. It was like, 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.360 So I can imagine that must have been like that 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.160 in the Second World War. You see a plane, you 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.640 run outside, you think, what is that? Okay, let's go 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.800 back to the deep dark spaces. It's just something that 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:34.560 you've noticed throughout your lifetime. Yeah, I've been I tripped 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.000 myself up from time to time. It's been my own 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.720 for my own journey, and I wouldn't have it any 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.560 other way, I guess, you know. The thing that I 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.000 wanted most when I was a teenager was to be 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.200 in a band. My parents didn't want me to be 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.040 in a band. They said that I would end up 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.800 a drug addict and alcoholic and skin and they were 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:58.440 absolutely right. But I guess what I'm asking you know, depression. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.760 A lot of artists, successful artists, suffer from depression. And 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.560 you seem to go on that, but by the same talking, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.880 you're open to ideas. Have you been in therapy or 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:14.400 taking any medication for this depression? Yeah, twenty eight years 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.640 ago I went into rehab for the first time, and 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.960 it was an experience that I wasn't expecting. A good 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.840 friend picked me up literally from the street and took 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.400 me in, and I have to say it was a 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.000 big turning point in my in my career and in 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.520 my life. I've neglected a lot of relationships, the most 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.760 important ones, and I learned how to kind of stand 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.600 on my own two feet a little bit more and 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:48.960 actually know who I was for the first time. I guess, um, So, 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.640 twenty eight years ago I started that and it's there's 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:57.720 been therapy ever since here and here and there, And yeah, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.440 it's not an easy ride having depression in the back 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.520 of your mind, but you know, day by day it 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.800 gets easier, I think. And the only person who's going 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.439 to make it more confusing is me. Well, getting older 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.600 someone people become happier, which is one of the good 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:19.680 advantages of getting older. But do you feel that your 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.480 depression aligns with alienation and to what degree is that 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:28.560 an inspiration for your work? Well, I'm good at isolating, um, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.840 so it's not alienation is isolation from my point of view. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.080 And you know, there I wasn't a very successful band 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.160 up on stage Madison Square Garden and having a great 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.520 time playing stadiums with David Bowie and what I have 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.360 have you in you you too? And all I really 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.199 wanted to do is go back to my hotel room 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.960 and be on my own, which is kind of oh 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.559 do you know every other person in the band where 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:57.280 I was out drinking having a great time dancing, and 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.719 I was kind of just like, and I don't want 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.080 to do that. I just want to go back to 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:06.280 my room. So, um, you know, those those are the 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.520 golden days. Let's face it, you know, you had to 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.880 go there to understand what it was all about. In 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.680 the first place. We we just played Modison Square Garden 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:19.680 and in February, and apparently we played it twice before, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.520 but I didn't remember that. Wow, okay, when you wanted 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.200 to go back to your room, when you were at 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.480 the peak of the commercial success, what was going through 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.719 your brain? Why did you want to be in your room. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:40.600 I wanted to be in the room so that I could, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:47.800 I suppose, UM, enjoy the drink and the drugs without 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.240 anybody else around. I didn't want to share what I had. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.840 I had friends that would maybe put by it. And 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.760 the other thing was that no one in the band 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.520 really twigged what was going on apart from our drama. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.600 Gilson he got sober before I did, and he became 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.240 a big inspiration for me. Um. But when I went 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.360 into rehab, I think everybody was really surprised. They thought, well, 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.240 why is this guy going in? He seems quite normal 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.880 to us, and I can kind of get it. You know. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.560 It wasn't like I was Keith Mern or you know, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.840 I wasn't sort of staggering around driving cars into swimming pools. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.160 I was kind of trying to keep an even keel, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:35.880 and frequently people are reluctant to go to rehab. Had 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.840 people tried previously or why were you open to it 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:45.720 at that particular moment. Well, um, my drug dealer came 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.120 back from America and he had sobered up, and that 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.760 really confused me and upset me. And he said you 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.439 should try this, and he'd lost weight and he looked brilliant, 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.280 and I thought, I don't want to do that, so 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.080 I'm not ready for this. And then one day I 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.080 was about to go on a plane on another American 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.440 tour with Squeeze, and I went to say goodbye to 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.760 my children who were living in London, and I broke 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:16.360 down and I and this guy he came to pick 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.040 me up, and he didn't really give me many options. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.840 He just said, look, you know, I think this is 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.480 this is the time for you to sort your life out. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.439 And I said, well, what about Squeeze? They weight don 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.560 at the airport. He said that will be fine, and 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:35.560 it was and they all, um, they all carried on 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.400 the tour and sent lovely letters to me and supported me. 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.920 That begs a question, have you been cleaned since that time? Yeah? Absolutely, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.920 absolutely twenty eight years. And so when you play a 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.720 gig like you said you played Madison Square Gordon recently, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.080 do you still want to go back to your room alone. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.000 That's a good question. Um No. I mean I like 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.840 my own regime. I like the back of the bus. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.560 I like my own space, and I think everybody in 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.480 the band does. As you get older and you're in 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.360 a band, you want your own space. You know, when 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.200 you're first on a on an American tour, or you're 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.120 first on a tour, you know, in a minibus like 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.560 we were in we couldn't, you know. We just wanted 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.960 to be close to each other all the time. You know, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.840 we were like stuck together like glue, going around America 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.520 having great, a great time. And then as you get older, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.440 you want hold on a minute, I want my space. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.800 That also begs the question of a lot of acts 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.520 are on the road classic or heritage access, they say, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.000 and they're on the road primarily for the money, and 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.720 they hate each other. If you had any of that 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.280 experience where I'll see you on stage, but I don't 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.400 want to see anywhere else. No, good lord, I could 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.440 not do that for a moment. I've seen it another band. Actually, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.840 I've seen it and I've heard about it, read about it, 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.760 but that wouldn't work with Squeeze. We're very much a 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:11.000 musical unit. We may have our differences from time to time, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.520 but our similarities are great, and the similarities of the 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.880 songs really and you know, Glenn and I have grown 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:22.240 up together for forty eight years writing fantastic songs, I think, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:28.480 and you know, now we need our space. Okay, you're 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.360 only a year younger than me at this late date. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.200 Are you happy with what you have achieved or do 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.480 you still feel there's a grail you want to reach towards. 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.400 What are your thoughts on that. I've been thinking a 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.400 lot about that recently. There are lots of goals I 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:52.920 believe to head form, you know. And I think I'm 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.240 lucky enough to be healthy and I seem to still 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.520 be creative. My imagination still seems to be in the place, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.480 so I'm eager to write new records. M learning all 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.120 the time about musical theater, which is something that I've 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.320 had a passion for for many years. Um and I 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.640 may not ever write a musical, but it's something that 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:19.080 I feel very strongly that I need to learn and yeah, 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.280 I mean there's always something new to do. I don't 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.440 want to be a nostalgia ban where we just go 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.560 up and do the hits. I don't think that would 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.280 wear very well with our fans. But to what degree 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.640 is it inhibiting? You know, when you started out, it 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.120 was the pre internet era, and certainly anybody who had 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.480 to deal with a major label, the audience was aware 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.240 of them. Whereas today, even if you're a new act, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.720 but certainly someone who's already had success, you can make 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.000 new material and almost no one can hear it, and 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.240 even fans will come to the show and a great 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.160 number won't listen. To what degree does that make it 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.560 so you don't want to create at all? Um? I 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:05.280 don't really have any connection with that feeling. I mean, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.000 if somebody comes to the gig because they want to 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.119 hear black coffee in bed or pull him muscles some 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.480 Michelle because it reminds them of being in college or 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.520 the first girlfriend that they had or something like that, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:21.360 that's amazing. That's a that's a respect. Um. If they 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.720 hear a new song and they just their mind drifts, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.040 I understand that totally. I mean, I've been to see 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.840 bands you know, like a couple of years ago. I 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.719 love Elvis Costello is a dear friend, and I go 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.520 and I listened to the new songs, and it takes 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.320 me a while to take it on board. You know, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.080 I kind of hold on a minute, you know, I've 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.359 got to I'm waiting for Oliver's Army, please, and then 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.159 you can give me some new songs. And then it 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.040 gives me the new songs and I'm diving into the 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:54.119 lyrics and I'm thinking, Wow, what an incredible writer. But 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.520 I want Oliver's Army. Okay, So you don't like from motivation. 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.240 I don't like for motive patient, and I think that's 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.840 maybe that's true of the whole of Squeeze. You know, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:09.040 when we're working together as a unit, which is which 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:17.360 is a wonderful thing, we all have motivation. Okay. Now, 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.160 there was a time when you shifted, and you went 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.560 into this in a book you recently wrote. You shifted 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.760 from being a performer to being a more behind the 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.639 scenes person, first as a songwriter with other people and 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.240 then as a manager. What was the what were your 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.320 thoughts did you feel you were giving something up? What 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:42.200 was that change like for you? A mentor of my 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.840 like a manager called David Nhoven who used to manage 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.080 Roxy Music and he managed King Crimson Um and he 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.959 managed Squeeze actually for a year. He was the mentor 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.040 of mine and when I was in rehab, he was 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.800 the most supportive person I could ever have had. I 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:05.560 loved him dear, dearly and still do. And he called 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.160 me out of the blue one day and he said, 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.040 Brian Ferries is looking for somebody to help him write 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.080 lyrics for his new album. Would you like to come 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.159 and meet him? And of course I had all the 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.840 Roxy Music records and Brian Ferry records and I couldn't 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.960 wait to get in the car to meet him. But 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.040 I was petrified because it felt like I was going 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.800 to meet Prince Charles or something. It was somebody in 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.040 a different level to me. So I sat with Brian 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:36.040 and with David, and Brian took me into his room 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.480 and he gave me books and books and books and 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.520 books of one liners, just one liners written down on 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.919 pads and he said, I want you to sort them 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:48.320 all out into songs. And so that was the beginning 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:53.560 of my relationship with him, and then it transformed into 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:59.760 becoming his personal manager. Because he didn't have a personal manager, 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:01.800 and he'd like to go to dinner with me for 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.520 some reason, and we like to go to the country 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.199 together for some reason. We hung out, We like cars, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:11.640 We drove around a lot, and we became friends when 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.919 it was when it was cool for him, and I 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.240 have to say the hugest respect for him, although I 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.359 found it difficult emotionally sometimes to work for him, and 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:28.120 so therefore I was transformed into a sort of managerial person. 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.000 And I wasn't in Squeeze Squeeze were asleep, so I 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:36.760 had the opportunity to do that, and I loved it. Okay, 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.359 let's go back to Brian for a second. When you 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.200 started to work for him, how are you doing financially? Um, 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.800 I was coasting. I was living in the country with 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:54.600 my my partner and my two new children, and we 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.400 were living on a farm. I had a recording studio 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.040 which everybody used to come and record about. Wayne Shorter 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:08.600 came to record there, for instance, Paul Weather, Oasis, Brian Ferry. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.160 I mean, the list goes on this huge list, and 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.600 I really enjoyed being a proprietor of that and seeing 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.439 my kids grow up. And I was peddling. It was. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.640 It was peddling time. It was fine. I enjoyed it. 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:27.040 And then Brian gave me a monthly wage, which was terrific. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.760 You know. It was just lovely to have a wage 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.920 packer and to be at work. And because I lived 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.320 in the country and he wanted me to be close by, 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.639 he put me in a hotel. So I stayed in 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.800 a really nice hotel just around the corner from his 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.160 house for six months. And when we got the bill, 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.919 I could have bought a flat for the price for 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.639 the for the hotel, but it was a lovely experience 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:55.720 experience for me. And yeah, well if you were in 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.000 the hotel for six months, were you separated from your 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.160 family for six months? Yeah. I used to go home 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.679 at the weekend, apart from when Brian needed me to 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.040 go to the country with him to his country house, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.960 or we would go and do a show somewhere. So 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.159 I was always on twenty four our call um. That 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.960 was my That was my my job, I guess. And yeah, 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.960 he had in a circle of private friends that I 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.920 was not. I was not in the inner court, if 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:25.600 you like. I was not in the inner court of 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:27.440 the Crimson King. I was on the outside of the 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:33.399 Crimson King and as far as bigger decisions like when 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.359 to go on tour putting out albums, were you involved 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.480 that or there was someone who was a manager who's 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.439 taking care of that. No, for a while, it was 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:46.760 it was it was David and myself and Brian making 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:51.240 the decisions. And he just wanted to work. You know, 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:56.720 he'd gone through a very difficult divorce which was painful 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.760 for him, and I could see that and I felt 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.000 dearly for him, you know, and he just wanted to work, 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:05.840 you know, he wanted to earn some money and just 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.160 have his mind taken off what was going on for him. 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.520 So we used to get lots of corporate work, you know, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:17.440 we do private shows. And then I get a phone 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.199 call from the record company and they say, Chris, you know, 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.520 the one thing we would like you to achieve is 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.639 to get Roxy Music back together again. And I said, 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.119 you want me to get Roxy music? How the hell 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:32.440 am I going to do that? Anyway? The next phone 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.760 call was from the head of a massive bank that 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.560 he's got tons of money. He wants Roxy Music to 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.120 do a private gig for his forty So I call 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.359