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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sitts Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Chris Clipper Squeeze. Chris Well. So

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Speaker 1: wonderful to be here. Okay, So where are you right

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Speaker 1: this very second? I'm in my garden shed and and

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Speaker 1: it's just blissed to be here. It's it's a kind

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Speaker 1: of spiritual place for me to be. Okay, So your shed,

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Speaker 1: which I can see, But this is an audio podcast.

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Speaker 1: To what degreek can you do recording there? Well? I

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Speaker 1: don't because as primarily as a lyricist, I leave all

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Speaker 1: the recording to the clever people. Um, so I sit

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Speaker 1: here and do what I can do. So I've been

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Speaker 1: doing in lockdown zoom concerts and I've been doing um

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Speaker 1: songwriting tutorials. Today I had sixteen people on my screen. Um.

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Speaker 1: We were working on different songs together. It was it

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Speaker 1: was kind of weird but fun. Okay, how did you

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Speaker 1: decide to do the tutorials? Well, I've been running songwriting

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Speaker 1: camps for twenty six years. I first started Miles Copeland's

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Speaker 1: Castle in ninety one I think it was, and when

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Speaker 1: I drove home from France having been at his retreat,

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Speaker 1: which I loved it was fun. I just thought it

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Speaker 1: was a bit bit sort of type. You know, everybody

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Speaker 1: had to be involved in his company. So I came

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Speaker 1: home and I found a really big house in the country.

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Speaker 1: I rented it with E. M. I Publishing, and we

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Speaker 1: got Lamont Dozier and we got Kirsty McCool and we

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Speaker 1: got sugs and Grand Gordman in the house along with

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Speaker 1: lots of other great people and we just sat and

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Speaker 1: wrote songs. And I've been doing it ever ever since.

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Speaker 1: Is it lucrative. No, I never get paid for it.

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Speaker 1: I just did it because I love it, and I

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Speaker 1: love putting people together, and I love hearing the songs.

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Speaker 1: And have any successful financially commercially songs emerged from any

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Speaker 1: of these camps, well, not so much that, but more

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Speaker 1: the sort of friendships. Like Kathy Dennis was one of

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Speaker 1: the first people to come, and she ended up writing

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Speaker 1: with Kylie Minogan. She's got a multimillion pound publishing deal

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Speaker 1: and I don't, so she probably she probably write the

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Speaker 1: right songs and I didn't. But it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: it's about friendships and about people that you meet and

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Speaker 1: about the songs that you write. After the week you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of just like being in re rehab. And

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Speaker 1: to what degree can you teach songwriting? You can't. You

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Speaker 1: can't at all. That's what I found out. But but

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Speaker 1: what but what you can do is just put people

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Speaker 1: in a room and say to them, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: the project, and you know, make make cups of tea

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Speaker 1: and just hope that people can cross polony. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the word that I would use, and they they do.

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Speaker 1: So the people that I've been working with this week

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Speaker 1: are all sponsored by Help Musicians, which is a charity.

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Speaker 1: So these they're all musicians that are out of work.

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Speaker 1: These are people that are struggling and they're eager to

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Speaker 1: do something different because they've been locked down for three months.

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Speaker 1: So they come on the screen and I give them

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Speaker 1: various projects, and I put them in groups and they

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Speaker 1: go off and write songs and it's just amazing to

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Speaker 1: hear what they come back with. You know, it's just brilliant.

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Speaker 1: And what might the assignment be? Well, the assignment? The

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Speaker 1: first one that I do is I asked them to

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Speaker 1: get a photograph from their house, choose a photograph, bring

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Speaker 1: it to the screen, show me the photograph, and then

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Speaker 1: I asked them to look at the photograph and take

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Speaker 1: it as inspiration for a lyric, and then they go

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Speaker 1: off for the day and then they come back with

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Speaker 1: a completed lyric based around the photograph that they've seen.

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Speaker 1: And I only know that it works because when I

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Speaker 1: wrote a song called label would Love for the East

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Speaker 1: Side Story album, it was inspired by Cartier Bresson autograph

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Speaker 1: that I saw in a book around that apparent one,

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Speaker 1: I think. And so these what about the music side

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Speaker 1: of it? Well, the music side is really up to them,

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Speaker 1: what what they bring to the table. Some people are

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Speaker 1: very basic in the way that they recalled and that's great.

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Speaker 1: And yet there are a couple of producers that have

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Speaker 1: been online today and they come back with almost the

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Speaker 1: finished product. And I'm sitting here with my chin on

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Speaker 1: the floor thinking, how do these guys do it? It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing. I just feel like a lazy sod, you know,

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Speaker 1: But it's just brilliant the way they do it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and you have done how many since covid era? I'm

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Speaker 1: on my fifth week? Wow? Wow? So now you're located

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Speaker 1: near Brighton? Yeah, I'm about ten miles east of Brighton

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Speaker 1: in the South Downs. Next to right next to a

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Speaker 1: place called Charleston, and did you end up in that area? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a bit of a bit of a tale. I

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Speaker 1: was in a deep dark place and I read a

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Speaker 1: book this was how long ago were you in this

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Speaker 1: dark place? Ten years ago? And it's one of my

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Speaker 1: many dark holes that I've been in, but this one

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Speaker 1: was pretty dark. And I had read a book by

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Speaker 1: a vicar called Peter Owen Jones, and I went to

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Speaker 1: Brighton to hear him read from his book at the

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Speaker 1: bookshop and I queued up with the book to get

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Speaker 1: him to sign it. It was a very inspirational read

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Speaker 1: and when I met him, I said, I'd really like

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Speaker 1: to have one to one council with you. So he

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Speaker 1: invited me to the village that I now live in,

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Speaker 1: and I sat with him for forty five minutes and

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Speaker 1: just spoke about how I felt, and he didn't say

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Speaker 1: a word. He just had a little cigarette on the go.

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Speaker 1: And then he turned to me and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: well I think you need. It's community and what I

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Speaker 1: think he needed somewhere to live. And we walked outside

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Speaker 1: of his house just down the road and we walked

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Speaker 1: into a house and he said you will live here,

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Speaker 1: and is that the house you're in exactly? So that

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Speaker 1: begs the question, to what degree are you integrated in

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Speaker 1: the community. Well, I've done lots of shows to raise

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Speaker 1: money for the roof of the church. I love the

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Speaker 1: community community here. It's a really special place. It's been

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Speaker 1: here since Henry the eighth time. This this particular village.

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Speaker 1: It's got the lord of the manor, but it's also

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Speaker 1: got the baker, you know, and it's also got the

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Speaker 1: pub and the post office. It's very gentle and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of completely different from being on a tour bus.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I like it. I think let's go

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning, speaking of the church, or you

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Speaker 1: will believer? Am I a believer like the monkeys? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I suppose I am a believer in something. I'm a

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Speaker 1: believer in fate and unbeliever in in love, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a believer of commitment, I guess. But it's taken a

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Speaker 1: long time for that to happen. So I must admit

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Speaker 1: I don't find that much fulfillment from a lot of interactions.

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Speaker 1: Do you find yourself getting fulfilled by talking to the banker,

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Speaker 1: baker in the other shop? People and do you see

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Speaker 1: any of these people outside of their work context. Not really.

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Speaker 1: I mean I sort of come and go to the

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Speaker 1: village because I'm up. Until just recently, obviously I was

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Speaker 1: on the road all the time, so for instance, this year,

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Speaker 1: I would have been away for five or six months.

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Speaker 1: So to actually be at home in the village and

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Speaker 1: to get to know each other, there is a kind

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Speaker 1: of new experience for us all, and we all cover

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Speaker 1: for each other. It's kind of a lockdown village, and

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Speaker 1: I have to say it's like being what I would

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Speaker 1: imagine it would have been like in the set and

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Speaker 1: World War. One of the things at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: Lockdown that was quite odd was there was no sound

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Speaker 1: of airplanes in the sky because they stopped flying off obviously,

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Speaker 1: and whenever there was a plane, people would run into

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Speaker 1: the garden to see what it was. It was like,

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Speaker 1: So I can imagine that must have been like that

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Speaker 1: in the Second World War. You see a plane, you

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Speaker 1: run outside, you think, what is that? Okay, let's go

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Speaker 1: back to the deep dark spaces. It's just something that

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Speaker 1: you've noticed throughout your lifetime. Yeah, I've been I tripped

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Speaker 1: myself up from time to time. It's been my own

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Speaker 1: for my own journey, and I wouldn't have it any

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Speaker 1: other way, I guess, you know. The thing that I

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Speaker 1: wanted most when I was a teenager was to be

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Speaker 1: in a band. My parents didn't want me to be

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Speaker 1: in a band. They said that I would end up

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Speaker 1: a drug addict and alcoholic and skin and they were

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. But I guess what I'm asking you know, depression.

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Speaker 1: A lot of artists, successful artists, suffer from depression. And

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Speaker 1: you seem to go on that, but by the same talking,

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Speaker 1: you're open to ideas. Have you been in therapy or

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Speaker 1: taking any medication for this depression? Yeah, twenty eight years

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Speaker 1: ago I went into rehab for the first time, and

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Speaker 1: it was an experience that I wasn't expecting. A good

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Speaker 1: friend picked me up literally from the street and took

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Speaker 1: me in, and I have to say it was a

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Speaker 1: big turning point in my in my career and in

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Speaker 1: my life. I've neglected a lot of relationships, the most

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Speaker 1: important ones, and I learned how to kind of stand

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Speaker 1: on my own two feet a little bit more and

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Speaker 1: actually know who I was for the first time. I guess, um, So,

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Speaker 1: twenty eight years ago I started that and it's there's

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Speaker 1: been therapy ever since here and here and there, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not an easy ride having depression in the back

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Speaker 1: of your mind, but you know, day by day it

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Speaker 1: gets easier, I think. And the only person who's going

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Speaker 1: to make it more confusing is me. Well, getting older

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Speaker 1: someone people become happier, which is one of the good

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Speaker 1: advantages of getting older. But do you feel that your

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Speaker 1: depression aligns with alienation and to what degree is that

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Speaker 1: an inspiration for your work? Well, I'm good at isolating, um,

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Speaker 1: so it's not alienation is isolation from my point of view.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there I wasn't a very successful band

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Speaker 1: up on stage Madison Square Garden and having a great

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Speaker 1: time playing stadiums with David Bowie and what I have

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Speaker 1: have you in you you too? And all I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to do is go back to my hotel room

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Speaker 1: and be on my own, which is kind of oh

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Speaker 1: do you know every other person in the band where

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Speaker 1: I was out drinking having a great time dancing, and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of just like, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do that. I just want to go back to

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Speaker 1: my room. So, um, you know, those those are the

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Speaker 1: golden days. Let's face it, you know, you had to

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Speaker 1: go there to understand what it was all about. In

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Speaker 1: the first place. We we just played Modison Square Garden

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Speaker 1: and in February, and apparently we played it twice before,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't remember that. Wow, okay, when you wanted

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Speaker 1: to go back to your room, when you were at

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Speaker 1: the peak of the commercial success, what was going through

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Speaker 1: your brain? Why did you want to be in your room.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be in the room so that I could,

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Speaker 1: I suppose, UM, enjoy the drink and the drugs without

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Speaker 1: anybody else around. I didn't want to share what I had.

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Speaker 1: I had friends that would maybe put by it. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing was that no one in the band

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Speaker 1: really twigged what was going on apart from our drama.

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Speaker 1: Gilson he got sober before I did, and he became

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Speaker 1: a big inspiration for me. Um. But when I went

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Speaker 1: into rehab, I think everybody was really surprised. They thought, well,

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Speaker 1: why is this guy going in? He seems quite normal

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Speaker 1: to us, and I can kind of get it. You know.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was Keith Mern or you know,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sort of staggering around driving cars into swimming pools.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of trying to keep an even keel,

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Speaker 1: and frequently people are reluctant to go to rehab. Had

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Speaker 1: people tried previously or why were you open to it

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Speaker 1: at that particular moment. Well, um, my drug dealer came

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Speaker 1: back from America and he had sobered up, and that

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Speaker 1: really confused me and upset me. And he said you

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Speaker 1: should try this, and he'd lost weight and he looked brilliant,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, I don't want to do that, so

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Speaker 1: I'm not ready for this. And then one day I

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Speaker 1: was about to go on a plane on another American

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Speaker 1: tour with Squeeze, and I went to say goodbye to

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Speaker 1: my children who were living in London, and I broke

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Speaker 1: down and I and this guy he came to pick

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Speaker 1: me up, and he didn't really give me many options.

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Speaker 1: He just said, look, you know, I think this is

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Speaker 1: this is the time for you to sort your life out.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, what about Squeeze? They weight don

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Speaker 1: at the airport. He said that will be fine, and

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Speaker 1: it was and they all, um, they all carried on

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Speaker 1: the tour and sent lovely letters to me and supported me.

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Speaker 1: That begs a question, have you been cleaned since that time? Yeah? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: absolutely twenty eight years. And so when you play a

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Speaker 1: gig like you said you played Madison Square Gordon recently,

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Speaker 1: do you still want to go back to your room alone.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. Um No. I mean I like

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Speaker 1: my own regime. I like the back of the bus.

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Speaker 1: I like my own space, and I think everybody in

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Speaker 1: the band does. As you get older and you're in

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Speaker 1: a band, you want your own space. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you're first on a on an American tour, or you're

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Speaker 1: first on a tour, you know, in a minibus like

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Speaker 1: we were in we couldn't, you know. We just wanted

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Speaker 1: to be close to each other all the time. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were like stuck together like glue, going around America

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Speaker 1: having great, a great time. And then as you get older,

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Speaker 1: you want hold on a minute, I want my space.

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Speaker 1: That also begs the question of a lot of acts

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Speaker 1: are on the road classic or heritage access, they say,

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Speaker 1: and they're on the road primarily for the money, and

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Speaker 1: they hate each other. If you had any of that

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Speaker 1: experience where I'll see you on stage, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want to see anywhere else. No, good lord, I could

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Speaker 1: not do that for a moment. I've seen it another band. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I've seen it and I've heard about it, read about it,

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Speaker 1: but that wouldn't work with Squeeze. We're very much a

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Speaker 1: musical unit. We may have our differences from time to time,

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Speaker 1: but our similarities are great, and the similarities of the

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Speaker 1: songs really and you know, Glenn and I have grown

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Speaker 1: up together for forty eight years writing fantastic songs, I think,

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Speaker 1: and you know, now we need our space. Okay, you're

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Speaker 1: only a year younger than me at this late date.

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Speaker 1: Are you happy with what you have achieved or do

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Speaker 1: you still feel there's a grail you want to reach towards.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that. I've been thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot about that recently. There are lots of goals I

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Speaker 1: believe to head form, you know. And I think I'm

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to be healthy and I seem to still

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Speaker 1: be creative. My imagination still seems to be in the place,

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Speaker 1: so I'm eager to write new records. M learning all

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Speaker 1: the time about musical theater, which is something that I've

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Speaker 1: had a passion for for many years. Um and I

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Speaker 1: may not ever write a musical, but it's something that

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Speaker 1: I feel very strongly that I need to learn and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's always something new to do. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be a nostalgia ban where we just go

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Speaker 1: up and do the hits. I don't think that would

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Speaker 1: wear very well with our fans. But to what degree

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Speaker 1: is it inhibiting? You know, when you started out, it

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Speaker 1: was the pre internet era, and certainly anybody who had

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Speaker 1: to deal with a major label, the audience was aware

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Speaker 1: of them. Whereas today, even if you're a new act,

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Speaker 1: but certainly someone who's already had success, you can make

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Speaker 1: new material and almost no one can hear it, and

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Speaker 1: even fans will come to the show and a great

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Speaker 1: number won't listen. To what degree does that make it

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Speaker 1: so you don't want to create at all? Um? I

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Speaker 1: don't really have any connection with that feeling. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if somebody comes to the gig because they want to

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Speaker 1: hear black coffee in bed or pull him muscles some

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Speaker 1: Michelle because it reminds them of being in college or

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Speaker 1: the first girlfriend that they had or something like that,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. That's a that's a respect. Um. If they

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Speaker 1: hear a new song and they just their mind drifts,

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Speaker 1: I understand that totally. I mean, I've been to see

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Speaker 1: bands you know, like a couple of years ago. I

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Speaker 1: love Elvis Costello is a dear friend, and I go

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Speaker 1: and I listened to the new songs, and it takes

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Speaker 1: me a while to take it on board. You know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of hold on a minute, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: got to I'm waiting for Oliver's Army, please, and then

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Speaker 1: you can give me some new songs. And then it

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Speaker 1: gives me the new songs and I'm diving into the

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Speaker 1: lyrics and I'm thinking, Wow, what an incredible writer. But

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Speaker 1: I want Oliver's Army. Okay, So you don't like from motivation.

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Speaker 1: I don't like for motive patient, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: maybe that's true of the whole of Squeeze. You know,

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Speaker 1: when we're working together as a unit, which is which

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Speaker 1: is a wonderful thing, we all have motivation. Okay. Now,

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Speaker 1: there was a time when you shifted, and you went

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Speaker 1: into this in a book you recently wrote. You shifted

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Speaker 1: from being a performer to being a more behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes person, first as a songwriter with other people and

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Speaker 1: then as a manager. What was the what were your

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Speaker 1: thoughts did you feel you were giving something up? What

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Speaker 1: was that change like for you? A mentor of my

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Speaker 1: like a manager called David Nhoven who used to manage

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Speaker 1: Roxy Music and he managed King Crimson Um and he

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Speaker 1: managed Squeeze actually for a year. He was the mentor

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Speaker 1: of mine and when I was in rehab, he was

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Speaker 1: the most supportive person I could ever have had. I

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Speaker 1: loved him dear, dearly and still do. And he called

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Speaker 1: me out of the blue one day and he said,

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Speaker 1: Brian Ferries is looking for somebody to help him write

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Speaker 1: lyrics for his new album. Would you like to come

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Speaker 1: and meet him? And of course I had all the

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Speaker 1: Roxy Music records and Brian Ferry records and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: wait to get in the car to meet him. But

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Speaker 1: I was petrified because it felt like I was going

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Speaker 1: to meet Prince Charles or something. It was somebody in

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Speaker 1: a different level to me. So I sat with Brian

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Speaker 1: and with David, and Brian took me into his room

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Speaker 1: and he gave me books and books and books and

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Speaker 1: books of one liners, just one liners written down on

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Speaker 1: pads and he said, I want you to sort them

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Speaker 1: all out into songs. And so that was the beginning

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Speaker 1: of my relationship with him, and then it transformed into

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Speaker 1: becoming his personal manager. Because he didn't have a personal manager,

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Speaker 1: and he'd like to go to dinner with me for

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Speaker 1: some reason, and we like to go to the country

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Speaker 1: together for some reason. We hung out, We like cars,

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Speaker 1: We drove around a lot, and we became friends when

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Speaker 1: it was when it was cool for him, and I

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Speaker 1: have to say the hugest respect for him, although I

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Speaker 1: found it difficult emotionally sometimes to work for him, and

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Speaker 1: so therefore I was transformed into a sort of managerial person.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't in Squeeze Squeeze were asleep, so I

347
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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to do that, and I loved it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to Brian for a second. When you

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Speaker 1: started to work for him, how are you doing financially? Um,

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Speaker 1: I was coasting. I was living in the country with

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Speaker 1: my my partner and my two new children, and we

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Speaker 1: were living on a farm. I had a recording studio

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Speaker 1: which everybody used to come and record about. Wayne Shorter

354
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Speaker 1: came to record there, for instance, Paul Weather, Oasis, Brian Ferry.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the list goes on this huge list, and

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed being a proprietor of that and seeing

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Speaker 1: my kids grow up. And I was peddling. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was peddling time. It was fine. I enjoyed it.

359
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Speaker 1: And then Brian gave me a monthly wage, which was terrific.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was just lovely to have a wage

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Speaker 1: packer and to be at work. And because I lived

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Speaker 1: in the country and he wanted me to be close by,

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Speaker 1: he put me in a hotel. So I stayed in

364
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Speaker 1: a really nice hotel just around the corner from his

365
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Speaker 1: house for six months. And when we got the bill,

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Speaker 1: I could have bought a flat for the price for

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Speaker 1: the for the hotel, but it was a lovely experience

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Speaker 1: experience for me. And yeah, well if you were in

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Speaker 1: the hotel for six months, were you separated from your

370
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Speaker 1: family for six months? Yeah. I used to go home

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Speaker 1: at the weekend, apart from when Brian needed me to

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Speaker 1: go to the country with him to his country house,

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Speaker 1: or we would go and do a show somewhere. So

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Speaker 1: I was always on twenty four our call um. That

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Speaker 1: was my That was my my job, I guess. And yeah,

376
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Speaker 1: he had in a circle of private friends that I

377
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Speaker 1: was not. I was not in the inner court, if

378
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Speaker 1: you like. I was not in the inner court of

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Speaker 1: the Crimson King. I was on the outside of the

380
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Speaker 1: Crimson King and as far as bigger decisions like when

381
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: to go on tour putting out albums, were you involved

382
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: that or there was someone who was a manager who's

383
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Speaker 1: taking care of that. No, for a while, it was

384
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Speaker 1: it was it was David and myself and Brian making

385
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Speaker 1: the decisions. And he just wanted to work. You know,

386
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Speaker 1: he'd gone through a very difficult divorce which was painful

387
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Speaker 1: for him, and I could see that and I felt

388
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Speaker 1: dearly for him, you know, and he just wanted to work,

389
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Speaker 1: you know, he wanted to earn some money and just

390
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: have his mind taken off what was going on for him.

391
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Speaker 1: So we used to get lots of corporate work, you know,

392
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Speaker 1: we do private shows. And then I get a phone

393
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Speaker 1: call from the record company and they say, Chris, you know,

394
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Speaker 1: the one thing we would like you to achieve is

395
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Speaker 1: to get Roxy Music back together again. And I said,

396
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Speaker 1: you want me to get Roxy music? How the hell

397
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Speaker 1: am I going to do that? Anyway? The next phone

398
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Speaker 1: call was from the head of a massive bank that

399
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: he's got tons of money. He wants Roxy Music to

400
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 1: do a private gig for his forty So I call

401
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: all the members of the band apart from Brian, you know,

402
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: and they all agree to do the show. So without rehearsals,

403
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Speaker 1: we turn up at this club and then I think,

404
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: this is my big minute. I've got them all in

405
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Speaker 1: the dressing room. I'm going to get them to talk

406
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: about reforming and Phil Man scenario, who was the it's

407
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: a catalyst in a way of trying to make it work.

408
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: I stood them in the dressing him to try and

409
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: get the conversation going, and it was like they'd all

410
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: just was that their first day of school. They didn't

411
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: know what to say each other. It was just weird,

412
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: and so it didn't happen. Okay, And to what degree

413
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Speaker 1: did you end up creating artistically with Brian Um? Well,

414
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if I did. I think

415
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: I kind of was there as a listening post. Sometimes

416
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: he'd have lots of different musicians in and lots of

417
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Speaker 1: different producers. We got Dave Stewart, and Dave produced the

418
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Speaker 1: album that I worked on, and Dave, being the genius

419
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: that he was, he would only kind of come in

420
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: for like an hour a week, but that would be

421
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: enough to kind of put the match to the fireworks

422
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: and set things off and Brian. You know, Brian was

423
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: very particular about his music, of course, and his whole image.

424
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Speaker 1: And I learned a lot from from his his kind

425
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: of style, if you like. But what did you learn?

426
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: I learned that just wasn't good enough to pick any

427
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: old tie out when you were going out for dinner,

428
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: that you had to really give it a whole day's

429
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: thought and just drilling a little bit further so emotionally

430
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: shifting from being on stage behind the scenes that was

431
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: rather smooth, or the break before this made it so

432
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: it was rather smooth. What was it difficult not to

433
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: work with Brian? It wasn't difficult. It was kind of smooth.

434
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: I didn't miss squeeze at that point, Okay, And then

435
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: how did it end with Brian? Oh? Um, Well, it

436
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: ended in exhaustion. I think really I was exhausted. He

437
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: was exhausted. He needed a proper manager to take him

438
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,479
Speaker 1: to where he needed to go. I don't think I

439
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: was that guy. I definitely wasn't that guy. Um. I've

440
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: been through lots of tiring days with him. And I

441
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: sat in my car outside the office one day and

442
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: I found his p A and I said, I'm not

443
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: coming in. I really don't think I can do this anymore.

444
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: And the next thing, I get a letter from Brian

445
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: and I've got it in my desk and I've never

446
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: opened it. But it was basically a farewell leader, and

447
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: you've never opened it because because I didn't need to

448
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: read what he would say kind of you know, he

449
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: was a very giving kind of guy, and I just

450
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: thought it would let the magic out of the bag,

451
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: whatever magic there was between us in that short space

452
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: of time, and I didn't want it to come out.

453
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: I wanted it to remain in the past. But that

454
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: begs a question, assuming you get mailed, do you open

455
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: your mail the day it comes? Oh? God? Yeah, But

456
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: this was from Brian Ferry and I knew it was

457
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: from him because I recognized the handwriting of his p A.

458
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: So it was kind of obvious. Okay, So that's approximately

459
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: six months working with him. Yes, there were two different times.

460
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: There was There was a six month period and then

461
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: there was a year. Yeah, And what was between those two, Um,

462
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: there was about two weeks of uh, not knowing what

463
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: I was required to do. M he was in a

464
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: bad mood. I got sent back to the hotel. The

465
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: phone didn't ring and I just sat there and I

466
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: sat there, and I sat there, and then he found

467
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: up and I came back in. Okay. So when that ended,

468
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: you went on to be a me and Drew menage

469
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: another bit. Well, yeah, I managed a band called the Stripes,

470
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: if that's who you're talking about. The Stripes. Yeah. They

471
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: were fifteen years old and they're from Ireland, from Cavern

472
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: in Ireland, and they came over and asked me to

473
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: produce them, and I pressed playing and record on the

474
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 1: two ins tape machine. They recorded about fifteen songs in

475
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: one take and it was like listening to the Rolling

476
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: Stones for the first time. They were just out of

477
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: this world. They were young, correct, they'd learn everything off

478
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: their iPads I think, and by just dedicating themselves to

479
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: the instruments that they that they were playing. So I

480
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: was completely smitten by them. But they didn't have a manager,

481
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: and I was giving them advice. I guess I was

482
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: just trying to help them out. And then I get

483
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: a phone call from Elton John and Elton John here's

484
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: that I've been working with them, and he says to me,

485
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: I really want that band on my label. So I said, great,

486
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: you know that sounds like amazing. He said, bring them

487
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: around for Sunday lunch. So I get the whole band

488
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: in my car. We drive around to Elton's house, which

489
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: is for them, you know, I am for me. I guess.

490
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: It's like this house with fantastic gardens, electric gates, statues everywhere,

491
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: candles in every room, flowers everywhere, just like the nicest thing,

492
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: you know. So we go in and he gives us

493
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Sunday lunch. He tells us what he's going to do

494
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: for the band, and then afterwards, I get the band

495
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: in the car and I'm really excited about it. And

496
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: I turned to them and I say, what did you

497
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: make of that? And they said to me, they're the

498
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: best roast potatoes we have had. So it was like

499
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: that's all that mattered to them, was the food. But

500
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: the band certainly did not reach the acclaim or success

501
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: of Elton never mind squee these How did you deal

502
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: with that? Um? Well, they toured the world and put

503
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: on live shows everywhere that were brilliant. You know, they

504
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: were very exciting to watch. I stood at the side

505
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: of the stage loads of times watching them play. Um

506
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: they they were like any band at that age. They

507
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: were kind of oscillating together. Um, But there was a

508
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of inner confusion about who did what I guess,

509
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: and you know that often happens with a young, young band.

510
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: You're waiting to see who's going to be like the

511
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: main writer or who's going to do the talking when

512
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: you do the press, you know, So it had to

513
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: evolve over time. The record company, you know, they gave

514
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: them three albums and then they were kicked out the door.

515
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: And did that break up the band? It was about

516
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: to implode anyway, because there were two separate writing camps.

517
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: There was the guitarist wrote most of the original songs,

518
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: and then the bass player and the druma wrote the

519
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: most of the songs for the third album and equally

520
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: as great as Josh's songs the guitarist, but coming from

521
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: a different point of view. And I think their influences

522
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: as human beings had started to change. And are any

523
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: of these people still in music professionally? Yeah? The guitarist,

524
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: Josh is floating around. I think he's recorded a couple

525
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: of records. I'm not sure where there. He plays with

526
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 1: Paul Weller every now and again. Is an amazing guitar player.

527
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: The drummer and the bass player I'm in touch with

528
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: and they have a band that they that they play.

529
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: But you know, the music industry is so difficult for

530
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: them as a young young as young men. It's not

531
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: like it was when I started out, that's for sure.

532
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: Also in this era, you do some songwriting with other people,

533
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: how does that come together into what degree is that fulfilling? Well?

534
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: For most of my life obviously writing with Glenn, He's

535
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: like the main guy in my life, and you know,

536
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: we've had an incredible journey. And then when it came

537
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: along for me to write with other people like Elton John,

538
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: I felt like I was sleeping outside of the marriage.

539
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: It was difficult. I found it hard. Um. But and

540
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: then started co writing when I started doing the songwriting

541
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: camps twenty six years ago, and and I've been doing

542
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: that ever since. And now it's like falling off a log.

543
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: I really love her. And this afternoon I was writing

544
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: with Kimmi Rhodes in Austin, Texas, UM and we're working

545
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: on some songs. So you know, I'm enthusiastic about songwriting

546
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: writing and I write at a different speed from Glenn,

547
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: and I think that's that's well respect respected between the

548
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 1: two of us, I e. You ride faster. Yeah, Cleans

549
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: much more careful about what he does, and that's what

550
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: makes him the genius that he is. I guess I

551
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: kind of. I just want to get on with it,

552
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: whether it's right or wrong. Okay, just staying in brighting

553
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: or the general area that would beg the question. Were

554
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: you a modern or rocker or was that something that

555
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: didn't apply. I was a skinhead when I was great.

556
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: I lived it really Yeah. I lived on a council

557
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: estate and I was a skinhead and we used to

558
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: beat people up. But you know, I was at the

559
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: back of the crowd because I didn't really like that

560
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: very much. And in fact, one of my skinhead friends

561
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: came to one of my gigs recently and he said,

562
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, it was odd about you. He said, We'll

563
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: be having a great, big fight and you'd be sitting

564
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: there with a pencil writing poetry. So if you grew

565
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: up in a council estate, that was weird. That was

566
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: in Greenwich in London, and yeah, it was full of skinheads,

567
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: and so I had no choice. I just joined the band,

568
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: I suppose, But all the while, in the back of

569
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: my mind I wanted to be in a rock and

570
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: roll band, and I loved music. I was tuned into

571
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: the who and the small, small faces, and just the

572
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: idea of being in a band. The camaraderie just looked amazing.

573
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: Interesting you talk about the camaraderie and then certain aspects

574
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: of your personality. You're a loner. But let's also go

575
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: back to the council state. So what did your parents

576
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: do for a living. Yeah, my dad worked at the

577
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: gas works when he came down from the Second World Well,

578
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: he got a job at the gas works and he

579
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: was there to the day diet, and he he loved

580
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: it down there, and I loved being down there with

581
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: him and my mom. She was mom to three boys,

582
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: and then towards the latter part of her life she

583
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: got a job in a canteen. Okay, so there are

584
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: three boys. Where are you in the hierarchy. I'm the youngest.

585
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: I came ten years after the one before, so I

586
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: was a bit of her. I was just the last

587
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: one on the rack. Well, usually the baby, whether it's

588
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: a couple of years or ten, is coddled and is treated,

589
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, like fine china by the parents. They couldn't

590
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: afford fine china. My parents. What I mean is that

591
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: they're forgiving in a way that they might not be

592
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: for the older children. Um. Yeah, they were kind of

593
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: tired by then, I guess. But my brothers looked after me,

594
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: and thank thank God that they did. You know, they

595
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: looked out for me. My dad was constantly working, so

596
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: I hardly saw him, and my mom just kept herself

597
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: to herself. We lived in a tiny house and there

598
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: was music, there was food on the table, there was love,

599
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: you know. So it wasn't disruptive in that kind of

600
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: way until I became a young teenager and started playing music.

601
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: Now Council states from a US viewpoint, is the lower

602
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: economic end of the scale and its post war To

603
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: what degree was it impoverished under privilege or not a

604
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: factor it was. It was built by the local council

605
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: to house people that were in temporary accommodation after the

606
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: Second World War. So, for instance, before we moved in

607
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: to the house we had on the estate, we were

608
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: living in a prefab which was built specifically for people

609
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: who didn't have homes after the Second World War. So

610
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: that was my first home, and a prefabs like a

611
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: flat building now stairs, and you know, we were all

612
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: sort of crammed in and there was like four prefabs

613
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: in a row. But they weren't very healthy places to live.

614
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: They had a lot of damp and it wasn't very

615
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't great. So we moved on to this council

616
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: estate with lots of other people and and it quickly

617
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: became um sort of the nest from where the birds

618
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: began to lay their eggs. Now, as I say, we're

619
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: coming from across the park, what do we know about

620
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: the UK and that era? There's limited radio, records are expensive.

621
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: What was it like growing up before you actually got

622
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: into a band. Yeah, records were expensive, but and you

623
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: had to go miles to get them, you know. That

624
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: was the great thing. You know, if like the Allman

625
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: Brothers brought out a live album and have to get

626
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: on a bus go all the way into London, that

627
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: would take an hour and a half. I'd queue up,

628
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: get a copy of the Allman Brothers, put it in

629
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: the bag on the bus, come all the way back

630
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: and then put it on the record player. So music

631
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: was so important. It meant so much more because you've

632
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: gone out of your way to get it, you know,

633
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: And that's what my record collection was it was a

634
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: dedication of love, really, And whenever somebody like Todd Rudgreen

635
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: or Frank's Upper or someone like that would bring out

636
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: a record record, you know, I would be on the

637
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: bus up to London to get the first copy of it.

638
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: But those were the days where people would judge you

639
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: based on your record collection. So what kind of kid

640
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: were you growing up? We were a member of the

641
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: group We're good in school? What was that like? I

642
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: wasn't good at school now, I was kind of what

643
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: we were looking at my school report the other day

644
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: and it said I was backward. Um, you know, I

645
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: was just let what you called today dyslexic. So I

646
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: was put in a special class with other kids that

647
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: were backward. Um. This guy that I used to sit

648
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: next to, Derek Shot, he had crayons, you know, and

649
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 1: he was kind of more backward than me. But we

650
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: were just there, you know. And that's why I just

651
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: used to get a pencil and write down poetry. And

652
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think it became a way

653
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: of isolating from the rest of the class. And um,

654
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: it became like a a safe place to be amongst

655
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: all these words and the teachers didn't seem to mind

656
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: what I was doing, so I felt like I was

657
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. But you that's kind of an

658
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: interesting connection. Poetry and look slexia. Those don't tend not

659
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: to go together. Maybe I'm not the selestic and I

660
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: don't understand, well they don't. But there's just words, and

661
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: you know they in those days they were very floral

662
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: or very kind of had no meaning. They were just

663
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: fun words. It was just the words were just a

664
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: place to sort of exist outside of the rest of

665
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: the school, I guess. But I was constantly listening to music,

666
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: and that was what was influencing me. You know, I'd

667
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: listened to King Crimson record and I think, Wow, the

668
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: lyrics this are amazing. You know, I want to be

669
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: Pete Simfield. I want to write lyrics like like this,

670
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: And so I would go off and try and copy him.

671
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: So in America we had the folk scene, and then

672
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: the Beatles came on the scene at the very beginning

673
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixt Were they broke in the UK? Sixty

674
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: two sixty three? To what degree were the Beatles impactful

675
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: on your sensibility and career and desires? Ordered to come

676
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: sooner was an influenced by something later. My elder brother

677
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: was a massive Beatles fan, and they were an institution

678
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: in our house. They were almost like religious figures. Whenever

679
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: a record came out, it constantly got a spin, and

680
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: at Christmas they were always on television. They were kind

681
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: of like, you know, the Boys, two men of their time,

682
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: I guess, and they were just like constantly respect you know,

683
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: you respected them all. They didn't seem to put a

684
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: foot wrong everything that, you know. I joined the fan club.

685
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: The fan card records were amazing, the books, the magazines

686
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: that used to come, they were so clean cut, you know,

687
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: they were the boy next door. And so my parents

688
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: accepted that that was the music that I might want

689
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: to get into because it was a respectable player. But

690
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into that place. You know,

691
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: I'd already at this point anyway, discovered the m C

692
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: five and the Stooges and you know, rock and roll

693
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: and stuff that was filthy. And that was because my

694
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: other brother didn't like the Beatles and like rolling Stones,

695
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: and so down his tree came bow Deadly how the

696
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: Stooges m C five, So you know, there was those

697
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: two branches of the family tree. That were rocking in

698
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: different direct direct directions, yeah had in one house. Usually

699
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: you didn't get that opposition in one house. So what

700
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: point do you pick up an instrument and say this

701
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: is my destiny. I think when I was about fourteen,

702
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: I picked up an instrument started writing songs and before

703
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: I met Glenn, i'd written probably forty or fifty that

704
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: was quite pleased with. It was quite fluent, but not

705
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: very good. But it didn't matter, you know, the the ambition.

706
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: The ambition was every think that they needed. And the

707
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: ambition came from two very important gigs that I saw.

708
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: The first one was The Who Who played at Chilton.

709
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: I went to see them. I managed to get backstage,

710
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: and to be backstage to watch The Who play in

711
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: front of a hundred thousand people in a football ground

712
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: was extraordinary. It was the most exciting thing. And the

713
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: camaraderie between them being in a band, it was like

714
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: being in a gang being and going a skinnets. You know,

715
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: they're all getting on, dancing around, having fun. So I

716
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: was like, okay, that's the job for me. And then

717
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: a little bit before that, I had seen David Bowie

718
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: this is pre Ziggy and he was playing in a

719
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: local college. All the audiences in those days sat cross

720
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: legged on the floor and David Bowie walks on and

721
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: plays all these amazing songs and the lyrics just hit

722
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: me and I think, wow, I wish I could write

723
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: lyrics like like that. You know that? And I sort

724
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: of moved away from King Crimson and from the kind

725
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: of fantasy lyricism to the more sort of structured lyric Okay,

726
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: so when do you stop going to school? I stopped

727
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: going to school in my head that there I went. Really,

728
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't very good. It didn't get any results. Um,

729
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: I was always looking out the window. I wasn't bothered

730
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: with it all. You know. It was the only class

731
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: that I took to was the art class. And that's

732
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: because we had a really beautiful art teacher called Gail.

733
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: And Gail was a real sweetheart, and she was a

734
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: young teacher from a local college. And she used to

735
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: say to us, bring your records in and we will

736
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: play them while we're painting and drawing and stuff like that.

737
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, a teacher actually has got

738
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: a record collection. And after school one day she invited

739
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: me around to her house to listen to the new

740
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac album. And then she tried to seduce me.

741
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I was terrified. So what happened? You run

742
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: out the door? I ran out the dog on the

743
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: bus and went home and the next day, the next day,

744
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: I went back to school and nothing was said. How

745
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: much older than you was? She? She was older than me? Okay, Um,

746
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: do you ever have a straight gig? Or you pretty

747
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: much made your living as a musician? Might a few

748
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: jobs when I left school. I worked down the docks

749
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: with my brother for a bit. Um, nothing really to

750
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: write home about. I mean, the ambition was always to

751
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: try and write songs and try and being a band.

752
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: And so you say your parents disapproved of that. They

753
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: did until they saw me on Telly, and then suddenly

754
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: the penny dropped and it was like, ah, yeah, what

755
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: a great boy. You are fantastic, well done. So okay,

756
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: you you're writing songs? How do you start forming bands?

757
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: I put an advert in a sweet shop window in

758
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three for a guitarist to join a band,

759
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: and the only person to ring was a guy called

760
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: Glen Hillbrook. It was April nine three, and I was

761
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: quite nervous about meeting him. For the first time. I

762
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: didn't know where it was going to lead. And I

763
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: met him outside a pub, him and his girlfriend Maxine.

764
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: I'd recognize them from being people that had seen locally,

765
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: so I kind of was aware of both of them

766
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: because they stood out from the crowd. They were very different.

767
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: They were hippie hippie kids, if you like. He had

768
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: bare feet, she had bare feet. He had a mandolin,

769
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: they had long hair, and they looked beautiful and angelic together,

770
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: and there was something about it that was so beautiful

771
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: that I thought, I've got to give this a go.

772
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: And I went to their house, listened to some songs.

773
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: We listened to some Jimmy Hendricks, which Glenn was really

774
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: into at that point, and then he came to my house.

775
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: I played some songs, some that I'd written before we

776
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: knew where we were. By the summer of that year,

777
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: we'd written about fifty songs. I guess why the Sweet Shop.

778
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: Why the Sweet Shop? Well, because because I just thought, well,

779
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: it's local, you know, And I thought, well it was.

780
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: The advert was above bunk bed for sale, freezer for sale,

781
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, second hand budgery, garcage for sale, and then

782
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: guy looking for guitarist. It was kind of surreal, and

783
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: I suppose I didn't know what was going to happen.

784
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: I could have put an advert in the Melody Maker,

785
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: which everybody did, but I didn't. Right, Okay, So when

786
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: it comes to your house and you're writing songs or

787
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: there's the division of duties happened pretty quickly where you're

788
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: the lyricist and he's an musical end of it. Yeah,

789
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: I think it did really. Glenn recognized, I guess a

790
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: skill I had been working on, which is the lyrical

791
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: side of music music, and I realized that musically likewise,

792
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: he was really good at putting songs together. So we

793
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: were in a we're in a van going to a gig,

794
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: and he asked me for a lyric and I had

795
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: a whole load of lyrics and I gave him one.

796
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: He wrote a tune, and to that day, to this

797
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: I've never written another tune. And where was that in

798
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: Squeeze his career. That was before Squeeze. That was just

799
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: the beginning. So he had been at school with Jules Holland,

800
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: and so he introduced me to Jules and that was

801
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: really the nucleus of the early part of squeeze, and

802
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: how does it become squeeze? And how do you get

803
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: a manager in a record deal? And well, a lot

804
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 1: of rehearsing, a lot of playing in the local pubs,

805
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: a lot of writing songs, playing teammates. That was the

806
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: most important thing. Um. And then there was a band

807
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: called the Own Only Ones. I don't know if you

808
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: remember them, and Glenn had been hanging out with one

809
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: of them, and they had this guy called Lawrence, and

810
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: Lawrence was a manager, and Lawrence had been at school

811
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: with Stewart Copeland. And Lawrence said, you know, I'd been

812
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 1: a manager, but I think you need someone who really

813
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: knows what they're doing because you're such a great band.

814
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: And that was a really nice thing for him to say.

815
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: So he looked after us for a little bit finance

816
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: some of her early work, and then he introduced us

817
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: to It's Larger than a life character. Myles Copeland and

818
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: Miles came to our rehearsal room. We played him fifteen

819
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: songs and he just wanted to sign us there and then,

820
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: and so what to inspire, Well, we signed a massive

821
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: document that was like five ft tall. It was a

822
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: publishing agreement, an agency agreement, and a record and a

823
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: record company agree agreement. They were all cross collateralized, but

824
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: it meant that we got fifty in quid a week.

825
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: So we said, yeah, we'll sign this. Fifteen quid a

826
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: week sounds amazing. So well, and he said to us,

827
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: a look, if you don't, if you haven't got a lawyer,

828
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: just show it to your dad. So I showed it.

829
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: I showed it to my dad, who worked in the

830
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: gas works, and he said how much are you going

831
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: to get? And I said fifteen quickly said sign it?

832
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: And to what degree do you regret signing that today? Well,

833
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: fifty percent of all of the songs that I wrote

834
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: with Glenn up until I don't own and I don't

835
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: get the publishing four they go. They used to be

836
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 1: owned by Miles he sold the company. So um, yeah,

837
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: that's part of the past of the hundred percent of

838
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: your interest. How much do you not get because there's

839
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: a publishing of the Raidar side. Well, um, he was

840
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: the publisher, so he got fifty okay, So we took

841
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: all of the publishing, yes, and then Glenn and I

842
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: will get right okay, So now what happens with making

843
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: a record? Um? Well, he we punk new wave just

844
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: started to come to London and we were going around

845
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: looking at other bands like The Clash, people like that

846
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: in clubs and wondering what the hell was going on.

847
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: And Miles had a friendship with John Kale from the

848
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: Velvet Underground and he suggested that we did some work

849
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: with John. So our first meeting with John was extraordinary.

850
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: We went to a rehearsal and we played him twenty

851
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: songs that we've been working on and he fell asleep.

852
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: So we wrote I am a c U n T

853
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: on his forehead in delible link and we sent him

854
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: back to his hotel and the next day came back

855
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: and it was still on his foot, theol But it

856
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: didn't matter because you know, he kind of said to us.

857
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: He said to me, in particular, I think your lyrics

858
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: are too sweet. I want you. I think if we're

859
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: going to work together, you've got a shop in your

860
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: pencil and do something different. And he was kind of right,

861
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: But you know, when you're young, you think you're right,

862
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, So it was a bit of a clash.

863
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: So first and foremost, you named the band after the

864
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: last Velvet Underground album, Squeeze, which really is a Doug

865
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: Yule incremation as opposed to reading John Kle in creation.

866
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: Then you work with John Kyle, what's that about? I

867
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: know what that was? That was fate. I mean, we

868
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: had lots of names that went in a hat, and

869
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: Squeeze was the one that came out. Bass player put

870
00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: the name in that. But yeah, I mean that's kind

871
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: of weird that both of them sort of linked together,

872
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: but it was, you know, I look him back thankfully.

873
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: That stuff with John was was really what made us

874
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: individual as a as a band. We could have been

875
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: a sweet pop band. You know, there's other record labels

876
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: that wanted us to be like the Rubettes or the

877
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: Basity Rollers. You know, they they wanted to mold us

878
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 1: in that kind of way. But luckily John Klee wanted

879
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: us to be different and he was absolutely right. How

880
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: do you end up with A and m um? Well,

881
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: various labels came along. I mean I remember Maurice Oberstein

882
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: coming to see us in London the Hundred Club and

883
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: he said, I think I'm going to pass on you guys.

884
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: He was very honest and I thought that was great.

885
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: It was very honest with him. He gave us the

886
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: reasons why and then the next pub we played in,

887
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: Derek Green from A and M came down and they

888
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: signed us. And well, I loved about A and M

889
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: and A record companies in general in those days is

890
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: they would stick with you. So if you had a

891
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: tough record the first one out, they'd stick with you

892
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: for two or three more, just to see if you

893
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: had any gas in the tank. And we certainly did so.

894
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, after the first album didn't really sell that many,

895
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: they allowed us to record the second album with John

896
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: Kale's engineer guy called John Wood, and the third album

897
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: with John Wood, and they were successful. Okay, yes you

898
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: have cool for catch, you have other hit certainly in

899
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Those are records that were played on K Rock,

900
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: which dominated the airwaves in Los Angeles, and the programmers

901
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: they ended up at MTV, which helped you. What was

902
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: the experience on your end? I mean we're I'm on

903
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: the listening and you're on the manufacturing and touring end. Well,

904
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: I felt like my feet weren't touching the ground. You know,

905
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: we were in and out of the studio. You know,

906
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: we get to the end of one record than the

907
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: record and he would say we want another record. Um,

908
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: like quick. Um So, me and Glenn would have to

909
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: work double e quick when we got back from touring.

910
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: And we love touring, so we were always on the

911
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: road in America or in Europe, and then we'd be

912
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: back in the studio again. And luckily Glenn forged a

913
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: fantastic relationship with John Wood um so that when the

914
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: songs were being produced, Glenn was very much at the

915
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: at the helm with John m putting together the melodies

916
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: and the structure, if you like. Um So, it was

917
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: a very productive five years. I guess it was just

918
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: the constant roller coaster of motels, two buses, studios, hangovers

919
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: and all the bad things. Well, you know you're saying

920
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: you love touring, what do people say? You know, it's

921
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: twenty three hours of hell from one hour of Evan

922
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: on stage. Well did you partake of the lifestyle on

923
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: the road, the wine, women, etcetera. But of course, you

924
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: know when you're young, you know, coming to America for

925
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: the first time, I remember extremely well, we got off

926
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: the plane in New York. It was just amazing. You know,

927
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: we're getting a minibus. Miles Copeland, our manager provided a minibus.

928
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: We got in it and we drove around America for

929
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: two months. We played absolutely everywhere that we could possibly play,

930
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: and while we were there, Miles would go and knock

931
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: on radio stations doors and say, you've got to play

932
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: these guys. But they were reluctant. They were playing zz

933
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: Top and um Sticks and you know r e O Speedwagon.

934
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 1: They weren't interested in young bands from Britain at that point.

935
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: So it was an uphill struggle at the very beginning,

936
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: but it was a struggle that we were prepared to

937
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: take on board. And we like to have a great time,

938
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,479
Speaker 1: and we did. We certainly did have a great time.

939
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: And then pulling Muscles from Michelle becomes a big radio

940
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: success amongst those radio stations that will play it, as

941
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: radio was transitioning from you know, meat and potatoes right

942
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: to the British sound. Yeah, and then I reft to

943
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: say that college radio saved our lives really because everywhere

944
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: we went, we played colleges and the college radio would

945
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: be open to us playing for them. They would play

946
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: our music music, the kids in the college would enjoy it.

947
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: They come to the gig, and then when they got

948
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: older and they had families, they come and see us again.

949
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like the breeding ground for Squeeze.

950
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: And how does Jewels decide to leave the band? Well, um,

951
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: I guess he got offered some TV work out of

952
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: the Blue, and Miles Copeland offered him a TV in

953
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: the UK called The Tube. He got an audition and

954
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: he passed, and he decided to take that and to

955
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: form his own band and go off and do his

956
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: own thing. And I remember meeting with him and Glenn

957
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: in a cafe in black Heath and he told us

958
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: what was going to happen, and I went home and cried.

959
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: I was that sad. I thought this was you know,

960
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: like one of the main members of the band had left,

961
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: and I sort of was upset with Miles for not

962
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of keeping everything together. And then a few months

963
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: later we met a new manager and we met a

964
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: new keyboard player and everything was rosy again. And the

965
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: new manager was Jake Rivieria. And Jake, well, you know

966
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: Stiff Records, that's a that's a world and to itself,

967
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: well it is and Jake was creative, exciting, every completely

968
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: different from Miles and fun to be around again. It

969
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: was like being in a gang, you know, you had

970
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: Elvis Costello, Dave Edmonds, mc loebe or Cara. You had

971
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: this great fraternity of musicians who all wanted the same

972
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: thing and wanted to do it with joy and happiness

973
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: and great artistry. I suppose even though we were pissed

974
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: most of the time, it didn't seem to matter. And

975
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: he came up with some great ideas, like a you know,

976
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: the East Side Story album was going to be a

977
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: four sided record. Dave Edmonds was going to produce one side,

978
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: the Nick one side obviously still a one side, and

979
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney was gonna record side four. We went in

980
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: the studio with Nick low Um, which was great fun,

981
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: but we ended up in the pub mostly so that

982
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: never saw the light of day. Dave Edmonds did the

983
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: original version of Tempted, but it didn't sound like Squeeze,

984
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: and then we went in with El Elvis and it

985
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: just made complete sense. How does Paul Curic get into bed, Well,

986
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: we didn't never keep board player, and there he was,

987
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: and well, certainly he's had a parapatetic career after but

988
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: he starts in ace. He does how long I have

989
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: that album? I like it, but nothing really happens. And

990
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: then he's in your band. He's playing in Mike and

991
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: the Mechanics. You know, he's cutting solo. He never seems

992
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: to stay anywhere he's with Eric Clapton. Um, Yeah he doesn't.

993
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that keeps him healthy, you know.

994
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: And he's a talent. He can sing so beautifully and

995
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: emotionally that when I'm writing songs with him, I find

996
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: it really hard to contain my feelings because he's such

997
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: an incredibly emotional singer. So to have him in Squeeze,

998
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: I didn't know that at the time, but to have

999
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: him in Squeeze was just genius. And what were the

1000
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: circumstances and how did you feel when he left? Well,

1001
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: that's when I started to think that the chain was

1002
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: beginning to snap and started. Glenn, we were tired. We

1003
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: toured constantly, recorded constantly, UM and we were doing an

1004
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: album with a I called Ian McDonald who was an engineer,

1005
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: and we went into Sweet Side Story with him in

1006
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: Roger Adultery's studio in Batassy, and yeah, I was tired,

1007
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: Glenn was tired, and we were on a train together

1008
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: and we both said the same thing at the same time,

1009
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: I think we should rest the band, and we broke

1010
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: the band up. Which was upsetting for everybody, including us,

1011
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: and we recorded Suits from a Stranger and that was that. Okay,

1012
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: But Black Coffee in Bed is a big radio success,

1013
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: at least in the US. It was a huge radio

1014
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: success for us. But it was very long as a song,

1015
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: and I was surprised. That's what I liked about it. Yeah,

1016
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: I liked it to and when you come and see

1017
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: us played live, it is the longest song of the night.

1018
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: It's like the second set and just in that one song. Um,

1019
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, Glenn was his genius point at that, you know.

1020
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: He we'd written When the Hangover of the Strikes and

1021
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: then the music to that and the music to Black

1022
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: Coffee and Bed were like the highlights of that part

1023
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: of our career. And lyrically, I felt like I was

1024
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: beginning to fade. The lights were beginning to get dim

1025
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: in my head, and so it was a good time

1026
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: to say good night. So we said good night. In Jamaica.

1027
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: That was our last gig. We were on stage with

1028
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: the wreath of Franklin there Grateful Dead, the Clash. It

1029
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: was a festival and yeah, it was kind of like

1030
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: a great way to go out, okay, but you go

1031
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: out that must have been emotionally very difficult. You come home,

1032
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: what's the player and there wasn't one. There was no

1033
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: plan until about two months later, a guy from a

1034
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: local theater presents Glenn and I with a script for

1035
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: a musical called Label Would Love. Glenn and I read it,

1036
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: we liked it, We were used the band and it

1037
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: ran for three months. The needer Land of family from

1038
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: America came to see it. They wanted us to tour

1039
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: in America, but we didn't want to do that. UM,

1040
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: so we went off and recorded an album on our

1041
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: own called Diffident Tilbrook. We changed managers again and who

1042
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: was the new manager? Chef Gordon right, and that was

1043
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: Chep very well. I forgot that point of this h

1044
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: managerial career. So yes, you have the new manager, and

1045
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: what does Chef tell you to do? Because Sheep is

1046
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: not short of ideas. He he had some ideas about

1047
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: us working with Grandmaster Flesh, which was surreal, and we

1048
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: did some tracks with them in New Jersey. UM, but

1049
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: the coming together was strange. It didn't really work. It

1050
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: was like it could have worked with a bit more

1051
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,959
Speaker 1: input from myself and Glenn possibly, but it didn't really

1052
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: want it didn't really seem like it was going to fit.

1053
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: So we went off and recorded the Different Tilbrook album

1054
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: with Eric thorn Gren, and Eric thorn Gren was their

1055
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: engineer and he'd never been out of that studio with

1056
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: a grandmaster flesh, so it was like a new beginning

1057
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: for him too. He went on to record with the

1058
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: Talking Heads and stuff, so he came to London and

1059
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: help us finish that that album. And so how do

1060
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: you decide to become Squeeze again? It was very easy.

1061
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: The Different Tilbrook album was a masterpiece on reflection, but

1062
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: not at the time a Glen Again. Glenn's genius was

1063
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: at the forefront musically, I think um and we he

1064
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: was co He was working on it with Tony viscon Visconti,

1065
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: and we took it to the record company and they

1066
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: turned it down. They didn't like what Tony had done.

1067
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: And that's the only time Tony Visconti has been turned

1068
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: down by a record label after that, you know. So

1069
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: that was kind of sad. Um. So then we get

1070
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: that somebody approaches Glen about doing a charity gig locally

1071
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: for and so we get Jewels, Gilson, everybody back in

1072
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: the band, and we go in the pub, we play

1073
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: the electricity is reformed, we're oscillating as a band again,

1074
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: and then we're off. We're off to the races. But

1075
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: what do we do? We call Miles Copeland and Miles

1076
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: comes back to manage us again. And why do we

1077
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: do that? Because he's got such a great relationship with

1078
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: A and M. Because of the police that we figure

1079
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: that we can get as many doors open for us

1080
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: as possible. And to some degree that did work. You know,

1081
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: Miles had a lot of weight to throw around and

1082
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: that helped us record the next few albums. But ultimately

1083
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: A and then rejects you when you jump to reprieve. Yeah,

1084
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 1: that was weird. They we got to the stage where

1085
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: we dumped my hours again and they phoned us up

1086
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: and they just said, I'm sorry, you come to the

1087
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: end of the road. And then we Glenn and I

1088
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: were like, oh my god, what we're gonna do now?

1089
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: Another hurdle to jump over. And then the next day

1090
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: we get a phone call from Lenny one Oker and

1091
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: he says to us, I want to I want you

1092
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: guys on Warner Brothers come to Los Angeles and record

1093
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: an album with Tony Berg. So we go to Los Angeles,

1094
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: and that's where I hit my darkest point in my life,

1095
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: right at the beginning of the recording of that record.

1096
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: What Why Um. I think I've kind of taken to

1097
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: many drugs, drunk too much, isolated too much. I've lost

1098
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: any communication skills I had with the band, particularly with Glenn,

1099
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: and I regret that. And Glenn had this great vision

1100
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: that we would all be in like a house in

1101
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, like when the band got together to record,

1102
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: But as soon as we got to Los Angeles, I

1103
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: checked out of the house and got myself in the

1104
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: apartment on Venice Beach and drew the curtains and isolated

1105
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: from everybody and left Glen really to sort of hold

1106
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: court and he and Tony did all the work on

1107
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: that record, but emotionally I kind of was dried up,

1108
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: I guess well. On that album, which many people consider

1109
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: to be uh not, one of the beings high points

1110
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: is Satisfied, which is one of my favorite Squeezed tubes.

1111
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely it's one of mine too, and it's a terrific

1112
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: song that we never play life but wish it that

1113
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: we did. And I think the production of that was

1114
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: recorded in Tony's garden shed. It's amazing. It's just an

1115
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: amazing thing. And then you go back to and him,

1116
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: how does that happen? We've had a checkered past um

1117
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: you know. Well they had a change of heart at

1118
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: the top of the label and they decided that, well,

1119
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, we've got their back catalog, how can we

1120
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: enhance the new cat catalog. We gave them some new songs.

1121
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: Some Fantastic Place came along. I've been in rehab, I

1122
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: was on a pink cloud. Some Fantastic Place was a

1123
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: great record. We have Pete Thomas in the band playing drums.

1124
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: We had Poor Carrot back in the band, and for

1125
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: me that was that was like a genius time. You know,

1126
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 1: we were really back, really back in the saddle there.

1127
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 1: I think, yes. But needless to say, while you were

1128
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: doing all this, musical trends were changing. Were the fifteen years.

1129
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,959
Speaker 1: So certainly your sound can be in and can be out.

1130
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: What was that like in terms of making music? Certainly

1131
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: in that era the Seattle sound was becoming very big. Yeah,

1132
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: it was you know, the A and R guys were saying, hey,

1133
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: you should you know, you should sound a bit more

1134
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: like Blur, or you should sound a bit more like,

1135
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, they were trying to sort of guide us,

1136
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: and we're saying, well, no, we're going to sound like squeeze,

1137
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: thank you very much. And then secretly they would send

1138
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 1: their songs off to be mixed by people in Sweden

1139
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: and it was like, what the hell are you doing

1140
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: that for? You know, it's like stupid, and so it

1141
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: started to peter out again, you know, I mean, it's

1142
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: it's extraordinary. We've we've been extraordinarily lucky to to bump

1143
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: along the rock and roll road. And about the same

1144
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:48,520
Speaker 1: time Jewels starts his road to real stardom on the

1145
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: Tube in the UK. What are your thoughts there? Um, Well,

1146
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: I've always remained great friends with Jules, and I sing

1147
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 1: in his orchestra every now and again as a tour

1148
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 1: at the end of this year that I'm supposed to

1149
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: be on singing with him. I write with Jules. I've

1150
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: never been far from his side, and I really enjoy

1151
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: our friendship. It goes back many years after all, and

1152
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: I really was not jealous of what he did. I

1153
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: was in in awe and it was great to hang

1154
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: out with him. But did you foresee this giant success? No,

1155
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: I didn't, but it seems now natural. You know, he's

1156
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: on television all the time, and thankfully he is introducing

1157
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: fantastic music to a younger crowd. So that's you know,

1158
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: we're there's very little music on television as as you

1159
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: well know, so to have something like Jules's show is

1160
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: just a tiny bit of fresh air for people to

1161
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:53,719
Speaker 1: tune into. So one must ask, over this long career,

1162
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: with no absolute staples, how this worked out financially for

1163
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: you over all these FI decades almost Um, well, there

1164
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: were times when royaltism prs would come through the door

1165
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: and I would go and buy a Maserati or fly

1166
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: concord every other weekum. Consequently I ran out of all

1167
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: the money, you know, or went And now we're at

1168
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: the other end of the ark where royalties don't mean

1169
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:27,719
Speaker 1: very much. You don't get people don't buy records obviously,

1170
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,600
Speaker 1: so the Spotify don't pay you particularly well. So the

1171
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: royalties have died out, and it's all about being on

1172
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: the road as Squeeze, and about about trying to reinvent

1173
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: who we are in a digit in a digital world.

1174
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: If you like, let's just assume you never toured again.

1175
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: Do you have enough money to get to the end. No,

1176
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: I definitely don't, you know, I know him. As Nickolos says,

1177
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: we're in the last we're in the final third. I

1178
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: think that's a lovely quote. And yeah, we're in the

1179
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: final third, and I wouldn't want to stop anyway. I've

1180
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: only just in the last ten years begin began to

1181
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:15,480
Speaker 1: own the fact that I am one half of Squeeze,

1182
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: and I do enjoy who I am, and I like

1183
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: to sing the songs. And that's taken a lot of therapy,

1184
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: a lot of time, a lot of understanding, and a

1185
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: lot of respect for the people that I work with,

1186
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: particularly Glenn. It's taken a long time for me too

1187
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:36,440
Speaker 1: to hold his hand. Oh what did you believe previously?

1188
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what I believed, but it always seemed

1189
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: to me like the competition was fruitless, really, and yeah,

1190
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: I wanted to be in competition the whole time. I

1191
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: couldn't sing like Glenn, obviously, I can't sing like Paul Carrot,

1192
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: but I learned to sing like me, and so when

1193
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: I do black coffee in bed myself, it sounds like me,

1194
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: and I think that's absolutely fine. And when I go

1195
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 1: out and do my solo stand up show, which is

1196
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,759
Speaker 1: like an hour long. It's like tell tales, to tell jokes,

1197
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: and I play a couple of songs. It's kind of

1198
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: that's all I all. I really really need. Um, you know,

1199
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: I enjoy that. I enjoyed the camaraderie of Squeeze again,

1200
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: and I'm really missing not being onto, not just for

1201
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: the band, but for the crew, for the audience, for

1202
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 1: the whole chemistry of what being a human being is

1203
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: all about. Let's go back to prior to that. Prior

1204
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,719
Speaker 1: to that realization, So you felt like less than half

1205
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: I did because I was I just couldn't handle. I

1206
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: suppose the fact that I found it difficult to play

1207
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: the guitar. I found it difficult to sing that kind

1208
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: of guy. That was the dyslexic, backward kid who is

1209
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: in the special needs class. That was always me and

1210
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: Squeeze in my head, and I couldn't express that to

1211
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: other people in the band. So I used to just

1212
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: dwell on it and be isolated. But I don't have

1213
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 1: to be that person anymore. I am much more confident,

1214
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: and UM, I really have our audience to thank for that,

1215
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: and I have the people that are around squeeze to

1216
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: thank for that too, and my and my my wife Louise,

1217
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: who constantly holds my my hand. Well, you know, we'll

1218
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: let me put it this way, other than squeeze. When

1219
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: you look at the world at large prior to this realization,

1220
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 1: did you feel less there or did you put other

1221
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: people on a pedestal? Yeah? I did feel less than

1222
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: and I did put You know, when when you're in

1223
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: a band and the lead singer is also the lead

1224
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: guitarist and he writes all the melodies and he's the

1225
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: one all the girls look at, you know, you kind

1226
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: of step backwards towards your amplifier just a little quicker

1227
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: because you don't feel like you can be that guy.

1228
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: But that's okay. It's like, not everybody can be Pete

1229
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 1: Townsend and not everybody can be Roger Adultery. So if

1230
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: I was one of them, I was probably Roger. Well.

1231
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: I guess that the reason I go deeper here is,

1232
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 1: you know, I'm stunned at these people who were big

1233
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: successes in their twenties and thirties. I was brought up

1234
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: in a family where they always said somebody else can

1235
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: do better, and it was It has him into like

1236
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 1: the last year that I've had this realization like you have. Well,

1237
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm on the landscape. I'm equal. But I

1238
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,799
Speaker 1: know people would verbalize that before, but I never believed.

1239
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: I never believe that either. And you know that's that's

1240
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: accept acceptance and it comes with age. I think, you know,

1241
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: and I think I'm very fortunate to be in the

1242
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 1: place that I'm at. There's no rush anymore to do anything, particularly,

1243
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's no rush to make a new album,

1244
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 1: although I would love to make a new album. I

1245
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: think this being in lockdown is like being in three

1246
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of like there's nothing to do. You kind

1247
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: of sit around. And I've just been starting writing songs again,

1248
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 1: so I'm in a good frame of mind. And um yeah,

1249
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to the day when we get back

1250
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: out there. So what is your personal songwriting process? Um? Well,

1251
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: I sit at my desk where I am now, and

1252
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,839
Speaker 1: I wait for lyrics to arrive. I don't go chasing them.

1253
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: I might get an idea. I like today, I had

1254
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 1: an idea and it came to me. I put down

1255
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: the idea on my computer screen and it just poured out.

1256
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: It just came straight out, and I sent it to

1257
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: a friend of mine in Austin and she just wrote

1258
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,879
Speaker 1: the music for it. Well, I guess what I'm asking.

1259
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 1: Are you the type of person? Well, you know it's

1260
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: ten am. I have to go to the shed and

1261
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: right or you're waiting for inspiration. No, I am fortunate

1262
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: insofar as um, whenever the news takes me, I will

1263
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 1: sit in the shed for as long as it takes

1264
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 1: to write whatever I need to write. Um. You know

1265
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,679
Speaker 1: the Randy Newmans school of going in in the morning

1266
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: from ten o'clock till five suits me. Fine, that sounds great.

1267
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: That's what I love to do. So for instance, if

1268
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 1: we were going to make a new Squeeze record, that's

1269
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: why I would do it. Cut myself off from ten

1270
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: to five every day. Okay? Are your best songs written

1271
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,799
Speaker 1: when you say I have to work or when lightning strikes?

1272
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 1: The best songs I've ever written from the subconscious mind?

1273
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: They just appear. I don't know what they're about or

1274
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: where they come from. Um. People, and then you go

1275
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: out on the road and people interview and they say

1276
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,680
Speaker 1: what's that song about? And you go, actually, I have

1277
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: to think about that, you know, because sometimes it comes

1278
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: from the from the back part of the brain which

1279
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 1: is kind of floating around black, you know, in the

1280
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: in sunlight, and it takes a while for it to

1281
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: see through into the lower valleys of the front of

1282
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: the mind. Well, like today, you say this poured out

1283
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: of you. Once it pours out of you, is that

1284
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: it or do you change it into? What degree do

1285
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: you change it? Um? Well, it depends. So I'm working

1286
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: with writing for Glenn. I have Glenn right in the

1287
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 1: middle of my mind, and I think about Glenn constantly

1288
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: while I'm writing, because he's the guy who's going to

1289
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 1: be singing it. So and I've got to think about

1290
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: his personality, what he feels, what he believes, and try

1291
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: and get into what he would like to sing. If

1292
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: I'm writing with Paul Carrot, I try and think about

1293
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 1: what Paul would like to sing. So I'd rather like

1294
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,800
Speaker 1: being a tailor, you know, lyrically, I've got to kind

1295
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: of dress the person in something that would suit them best. Well,

1296
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 1: I guess let's just assume you don't have a raw inspiration,

1297
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 1: but you want to write. You go out to the shed.

1298
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: Are you a procrastinator? Do you have to serve the

1299
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: web sharpen your pencils or do you go right into it. Oh, no,

1300
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 1: I don't do it. I just I just get there.

1301
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: I used this software called I a Writer, and I

1302
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: A Writer is just the black screen with white typing

1303
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 1: on it. There's no nothing around the outside of the screen,

1304
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: so you only see the words. And I just sit

1305
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: here and I tie up and imagine. I don't stress,

1306
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: and I just let it come, and then I'll come

1307
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 1: back the following day and read it. And if it's rubbish,

1308
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: I just don't bother finishing it. If it's good, then

1309
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 1: I've finished it. Is it sometimes hard to get into

1310
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: the same mood from what you've done before and to

1311
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: finish the song. Not really, No, I'm kind of once

1312
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm in the in the groove to write, it comes

1313
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 1: thick and fast. And you know, that's what I try

1314
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: and get across to the writers that I'm teaching that

1315
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,840
Speaker 1: they have to go with their instinct and not and

1316
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: not really challenge themselves or make it difficult for themselves,

1317
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: but just go with how you feel within. You know,

1318
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's a gift after all, having

1319
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 1: the ability to write lyrics, I feel, so you know,

1320
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,840
Speaker 1: you have to nurture the gift and be with it.

1321
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 1: So let's just assume you finish the song. Would you

1322
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 1: change it or it's done? It's done. Um. Well, again,

1323
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: it's who I'm working with, and I'm working with Glen.

1324
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 1: We normally tweak the songs lyrically. We might change the

1325
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:59,759
Speaker 1: world or two. Um. And on the last two albums

1326
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: of Squeeze, Glenn has contributed quite a lot lyric lyrically

1327
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 1: him himself. UM. So that's been a different dynamic for

1328
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 1: both of us. And that's been that's been fun and

1329
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: different for us. And then if I'm working with somebody else,

1330
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't tweak it quite as much. I don't

1331
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: think now when you say Glenn writes lyrics that after

1332
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 1: you've established something he then changes it or he comes

1333
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 1: with his own lyrics. No, he predominantly on the last

1334
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 1: couple of records he's come he's changed some of the

1335
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 1: influences of the lyrics, kept what he feels are the

1336
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: best lines, I guess, and then embellishes it with his

1337
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 1: own structure, in his own ideas. And I suppose that's

1338
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: what co writing is about. It's about being able to

1339
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: share that. It's never happened until recently, I have to say. So,

1340
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: you know, we've for a long time had the Bernie

1341
01:20:56,439 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: Telpen Elton John relationship, but without the money, where you know,

1342
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 1: I would deliver the lyrics walk away, and then the

1343
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 1: next thing I would be on stage playing this, this, this,

1344
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 1: these songs. But that dynamic has changed. And what lyrics

1345
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 1: are you most proud of? Um, jeez, I'm proud of

1346
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the earlier stuff, particularly the East Side

1347
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: Story album. I was talking about this the other day

1348
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: that it's the most complete album from a lyrical point

1349
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,639
Speaker 1: of view that I feel very proud of every track.

1350
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 1: And I think that's because Elvis Costello was producing it.

1351
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 1: And Elvis is a dear friend and and a dear

1352
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 1: friend because I respect him so much as a writer.

1353
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: So when we're in the studio together, he would be

1354
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: like the teacher that I would be trying to impress.

1355
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 1: So I'd come in with a lyric and I'd read

1356
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: it to him, or Glen would sing him a song

1357
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 1: and I'd be looking at him for a reaction. And

1358
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 1: that's what made that record special. So sometimes having a

1359
01:21:56,160 --> 01:22:00,760
Speaker 1: producer come in from the outside can really enhance your songwriting.

1360
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 1: Skills and it makes it less less kind of, um,

1361
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: it gives it more oxygen, I think. And let's assume

1362
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: you're not on a project. Are you writing anyway? Yeah,

1363
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to. I'm trying to write short story, short stories,

1364
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 1: which I'm learning a lot about. I'm constantly writing down

1365
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: notes about lyrics. Or I'm working on the next Zoom concert.

1366
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 1: I've got nil Nil Rodgers is joining me on the

1367
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 1: next one, which I'm looking forward to. And then if

1368
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that and I'm teaching or you know,

1369
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: I'm just sort of focusing on staying in the day. Okay,

1370
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: So who do you respect lyrically? Well, it's got to

1371
01:22:54,000 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: be people like Johnie Mitchell, um, Pete Townsend. Um, it's

1372
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: people from the past. In many ways. Alex Turner is

1373
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: a lyricist of most recent years that I love. I

1374
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 1: think he's just a complete genius, genius. Um. There's a

1375
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: lyricist called Chris Wood who's a folk singer who I

1376
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: really like. Um. Other than that, it's few and far between.

1377
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,560
Speaker 1: I guess can you name any specific Johnny Mitchell or

1378
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 1: Pete Townsends Lost? Um? What uh you know? When I

1379
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: listened to the Blue album. I mean, it's an obvious

1380
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 1: album to take but lyrically it's a very moving record.

1381
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 1: Um and you know, when I listened to that record,

1382
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 1: it takes me to a very soft and feminine place.

1383
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm like the new Bob Dylan record, which doesn't take

1384
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 1: me to a feminine past, but it takes me to

1385
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: a place of inspiration. So there are still genius, it's

1386
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: still people from the generation before the impressed, like Dylan,

1387
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: Neil Neil Young's new album, well, Neil's Neil Young's new

1388
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: album Homegrown is certainly and it's very good recorded from

1389
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: a previous era. It's certainly Bob. Certainly Bob Dylan has

1390
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: been through a lot of changes, and I'm a big

1391
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: Dylan fan. But I thought the two previous records, uh,

1392
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 1: we're overrated, and that seems to be the word now

1393
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: in terms of the new record. It's something I can respect,

1394
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,600
Speaker 1: but I don't find that easy to listen to. What

1395
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: has your experience been? Exactly that? Exactly that? But but

1396
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 1: that's the challenge for me. You know, it's on repeat

1397
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: in the car because I find it sometimes difficult to

1398
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 1: listen to and I'm not sure what that is, So

1399
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: I to get to the bottom of it by constantly

1400
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: listening to it. But it's the lyrical challenge that he

1401
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 1: throws up that is the most important thing. He's portraying

1402
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:15,560
Speaker 1: such beautiful imagery, um that I could only dream of writing.

1403
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: And that's what I I indulge in that kind of lyric. Okay,

1404
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,360
Speaker 1: So needless to say, you started your career in the

1405
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 1: pre internet era. What do you think about business and

1406
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: music today? Well, I don't know anything about business and

1407
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: music today. It doesn't exist for me. We're on the

1408
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 1: outskirts of that. We used to be very heavily in

1409
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 1: the middle with A and M and Warner Brothers and

1410
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: Universal and people like that. But that's not out. You

1411
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: know that we were in the department store, I guess,

1412
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: in the shopping mault of music and industry in those days.

1413
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: Now with the corner shop, you know, we've just got

1414
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: a few things that we sell, but they're fresh, um,

1415
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, fresh fruits and fresh vegetables and stuff, and

1416
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 1: and that's really actually I remember Pete Townshend saying to me,

1417
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 1: you know, you've got to stop thinking of squeezes as like,

1418
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, the big shop that you're working in, you're

1419
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: working in a corner shop now, you know. And that's

1420
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: exactly what it's like. And I love that. I think

1421
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: it's great. And we have more fans now than I

1422
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,400
Speaker 1: think we've ever had. We played in the Atlanta in September,

1423
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:27,799
Speaker 1: and our audience was so young. When we came on stage,

1424
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 1: I looked at Glennie looked at me, and we went

1425
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: and we at the right gig, you know. And this

1426
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: is an audience that had found us, I guess via Spotify,

1427
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: you know, and via the internet. So we are a

1428
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 1: new band just broadening our rises, leaving Squeeze out of it.

1429
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: Do you pay attention to what's popular on the charts,

1430
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 1: what is being released or you say I'm in Squeeze world. Um, yeah,

1431
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 1: I take on board what's going on in the industry,

1432
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:02,360
Speaker 1: you know. I listened to things that I think are great,

1433
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 1: like Laura Marlin. I'd love to listen to things that

1434
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: come along and stroke my imagination lyrically. But other than that,

1435
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: not really that fast. It's not for me. It's for

1436
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: a different generation, which begs the question of hip hop. Yeah,

1437
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: that's not really my thing. I don't think lyrically. I

1438
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: love Storm C, I love Dave, I think they're both

1439
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:32,799
Speaker 1: incredible lyricists. They're like, you know, they're like the Dickens

1440
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 1: of their day, um, and you know, um, people like

1441
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 1: that are extraordinary storytellers. UM. And that's what I find

1442
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 1: very appealing about that kind of music. Music when it's

1443
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 1: done right well, Chris, I think people have really gotten

1444
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: an idea of who you are. You certainly become more

1445
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: three D than what I've known previous Slee, even being

1446
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 1: on one of your webcasts. Thanks so much for doing this.

1447
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's been annment. Until next time. This is

1448
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 1: Bob left Send