Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The Trump administration has
Speaker 1: a goal of arresting and detaining three thousand immigrants a day,
Speaker 1: and that has led to a crackdown by Immigration and
Speaker 1: Customs enforcement nationwide. ICE has been conducting raids in cities
Speaker 1: across the United States, including Los Angeles, but in recent
Speaker 1: days those raids intensified.
Speaker 2: This was different.
Speaker 1: Alicia Caldwell covers Immigration for Bloomberg from LA.
Speaker 3: This was an armored truck that rolled down the streets
Speaker 3: through downtown Los Angeles with officers hanging on to the side,
Speaker 3: several on each side, with riot shields, helmets, cars in
Speaker 3: front and behind, guys on foot. This was much more
Speaker 3: expansive in a really busy area in a really busy time.
Speaker 1: Alicia says ICE targeted immigrant neighborhoods, restaurants, and home depot
Speaker 1: parking lots, and that sparked protests. The situation escalated over
Speaker 1: the weekend as President Trump authorized the deployment of two
Speaker 1: thousand National Guard troops, hundreds of whom have arrived in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles already. It's something that hasn't happened since the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. A US president sending National Guard troops to
Speaker 1: a state where the governor hasn't requested them. California Governor
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom says he's suing the Trump administration to stop it.
Speaker 3: Things have changed, and what we're looking for watching to
Speaker 3: see is does that violence increase? Are there increasing clashes
Speaker 3: between National Guard troops and protesters and or police.
Speaker 1: I'm David Gerra, and this is the big take from
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News on today's episode. Anger over detentions in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles is triggering a bigger clash between California and the
Speaker 1: federal government. How that fight could play out in other
Speaker 1: cities and in the courts. What made what happened in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles different from what we've seen in other cities
Speaker 1: across the United States.
Speaker 3: It was bigger than we'd seen before. We hadn't really
Speaker 3: seen the home depot arrests. We've seen sweeps at some businesses,
Speaker 3: some employment raids, if you will, and increasingly we've been
Speaker 3: seeing heavily armed ice agents. And I think what you
Speaker 3: saw was members of the community said, we're angry. You
Speaker 3: have rich pockets of migrant communities all over the region,
Speaker 3: and everybody is touched by all these things that are happening.
Speaker 3: Everybody sort of knows somebody who's maybe their status is
Speaker 3: if maybe they don't have status, maybe they're a TPS
Speaker 3: holder temporary protected status.
Speaker 2: So it's really broad.
Speaker 1: Has President Trump been engaged with this from the beginning
Speaker 1: was the appoint which she began to comment on it,
Speaker 1: engage with it more?
Speaker 2: It seemed rather abrupt.
Speaker 3: The governor was in an interview last night and cid
Speaker 3: he had spoken to the President in the last couple
Speaker 3: of days and according to Governor Newsom, this was not
Speaker 3: a topic of conversation per se. And then on Saturday,
Speaker 3: the President called in the National Guard. He didn't consult
Speaker 3: with the City of California, which has become a contentious issue.
Speaker 3: He's authorized two thousand troops to come into La California
Speaker 3: State National Guard, but federalized and so under the command
Speaker 3: and control of the Department of Defense. Right now, there's
Speaker 3: just a few hundred from a unit that's actually deployed
Speaker 3: to Afghanistan in the past and most recently was deployed
Speaker 3: for fire response to the La fires that started in January.
Speaker 1: Can you draw contrast for us between what these protests
Speaker 1: were like before the National Guard was called in and after,
Speaker 1: and as you said, it's early hours yet, we don't
Speaker 1: have two thousand guardsmen and women in Los Angeles yet.
Speaker 1: But did things change markedly when those troops got to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: They definitely appeared to change from my vantage point, you know,
Speaker 3: we saw images of one protester shouting expletives and such
Speaker 3: with his dog in his hand, so it appeared very
Speaker 3: spontaneous and very very localized. Same in downtown Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: This was a response from people who were around the
Speaker 3: area who were witnessing this and somewhat rapidly, and it's
Speaker 3: hard to judge the response from Border Patrol and ICE
Speaker 3: at the home depot in Paramount on Saturday, but tear
Speaker 3: gas and flash band grenades were used. We'd seen that
Speaker 3: before once in San Diego. It was repeated again on
Speaker 3: Friday in downtown as they're trying to disperse crowds and
Speaker 3: move vehicles out and in some cases move vehicles with
Speaker 3: arrestees in them. But things definitely got bigger and it
Speaker 3: seemed to get much more aggressive starting Sunday, And according
Speaker 3: to the police chief, some of the most violent, most
Speaker 3: aggressive agitators are not necessarily part of or sort of
Speaker 3: part of the organized anti ICE protests or anti deportation protests,
Speaker 3: but sort of maybe taking advantage, sort of anarchist in
Speaker 3: his view.
Speaker 1: I know you've been covering immigration for a long time,
Speaker 1: and you certainly covered it during the first Trump term,
Speaker 1: and there was this debate then about bringing the National
Speaker 1: Guard then to quell protests, and there was, as I
Speaker 1: understand it, a robust debate within the administration about that.
Speaker 3: Well, last time know, the largest civil unrest under the
Speaker 3: Trump administration one point zero was during the George Floyd
Speaker 3: protests in the spring and summer of twenty twenty and
Speaker 3: state national guards were used. The state of California rolled
Speaker 3: out the National Guard on Hollywood Boulevard. There were trucks
Speaker 3: lining the street. It looked like a militarized zone until
Speaker 3: you look a little bit closer, and those guys were
Speaker 3: sort of just standing by just in case, and they
Speaker 3: were under the command and control of the state.
Speaker 2: And the same was.
Speaker 3: The case across the country at significant protests in Minneapolis,
Speaker 3: in Kenosha, in Portland obviously that was one of the
Speaker 3: largest mass gatherings in Seattle and so on. This is
Speaker 3: different in the sense that the National Guard was called
Speaker 3: in almost immediately and not by the state. I started
Speaker 3: covering immigration in two thousand and five. And what is
Speaker 3: unusual and what is rapidly expanding, of course, is the
Speaker 3: nature of this event and the spiraling violence that's accompanying it.
Speaker 1: What you're saying is in the past, the National Guard
Speaker 1: has come in if a governor has called Ford and
Speaker 1: requested it. That's not the case this time.
Speaker 2: Correct, right.
Speaker 3: So, the last time, as I understand it, that the
Speaker 3: National Guard was federalized by the president was during the
Speaker 3: Lyndon Johnson administration, and he sent in the National.
Speaker 2: Guard to call protests over civil rights.
Speaker 3: Demands, and those National Guard troops were there to protect
Speaker 3: the protesters.
Speaker 2: This is dramatically different.
Speaker 3: This is you understandably, the federal government has an interest
Speaker 3: in protecting federal facilities. I don't think there's any debate
Speaker 3: about that. The real question here is was this necessary
Speaker 3: when it happened, or at all from a national perspective.
Speaker 3: The governor has said, we didn't ask. The mayor has
Speaker 3: said we definitely didn't ask. The police chief has said
Speaker 3: we would not be there yet. Things are definitely out
Speaker 3: of control. He's acknowledged that yesterday, Chief Jim McDonnell, but
Speaker 3: he was very careful to thread this line of their
Speaker 3: first call would be to the local sheriff's office in
Speaker 3: the LA County. Sheriff's office would then coordinate with all
Speaker 3: its accompanying partner agencies, and then perhaps you get to
Speaker 3: the National Guard, but certainly not quite in this fashion.
Speaker 1: After the break, what happens next in Los Angeles and
Speaker 1: in court as state and local officials push back on
Speaker 1: the federal government's crackdown, and what this moment signals to
Speaker 1: mayors and governors elsewhere. The protests in Los Angeles over
Speaker 1: immigration enforcement have escalated a bigger political fight between California
Speaker 1: Governor Gavin Newsom and President Trump. Trump has said he'd
Speaker 1: support the arrest of Newsom if he interferes with immigration enforcement.
Speaker 1: Something the president's borders are, Tom Homan says is on
Speaker 1: the table. Trump also suggested cutting off federal aid to
Speaker 1: the state, which led Newsom to point out California sends
Speaker 1: more funding to the federal government than it receives. So
Speaker 1: I asked Blomberg's Alicia called, well, how much leverage the
Speaker 1: president actually has over California.
Speaker 2: I think that's unclear.
Speaker 3: Obviously, he made decisions and deployed troops so he's got
Speaker 3: some leverage in that sense, but the state has pledged
Speaker 3: to litigate this. There was a formal request to the
Speaker 3: Department of Defense to withdraw these troops and return them
Speaker 3: to the command and control of the governor's office.
Speaker 2: We've not heard a response to that.
Speaker 3: There's been some back and forth on social media platforms
Speaker 3: with various leaders and sort of name calling and finger pointing,
Speaker 3: and so it's going to end up.
Speaker 2: In the courts.
Speaker 3: In terms of dollars tax dollars, that's a secondary question.
Speaker 3: In the sense of legality, it will undoubtedly be challenged
Speaker 3: in courts. California is i believe the fifth largest economy
Speaker 3: in the world, perhaps the fourth now, and certainly the
Speaker 3: largest in payer, if you will, to the federal government.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot at stake for both parties. There's
Speaker 3: sort of I think glib suggestion, well maybe California shouldn't
Speaker 3: pay in and you know, of course, the federal government
Speaker 3: is saying, well, we're going to stop all funding, you know,
Speaker 3: for your sanctuary policies. These are laws that have been
Speaker 3: on the books for a number of years and they
Speaker 3: basically do prohibit local authorities. And the police chief was
Speaker 3: very clear about this from participating in civil immigration action,
Speaker 3: which by and large immigration is civil. Increasingly they are
Speaker 3: seeking you know, immigration authorities are seeking criminal warrants for
Speaker 3: various and sundry acts, people who have outstanding warrants and
Speaker 3: so on. But by and large, there is no offense
Speaker 3: criminal offense strictly related to unlawful presence in the United States.
Speaker 1: You've described the tension between protesters in law enforcement over
Speaker 1: the weekend. Could you describe the tension between California state officials,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles officials, and the federal government in Washington. How
Speaker 1: tense is that situation?
Speaker 2: Very tense.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, this is a war of words
Speaker 3: for now and litigation, but yeah, it's a very tense,
Speaker 3: complicated situation. ICE has said, according to Chief McDonald, they're
Speaker 3: not necessarily going to or they've not come to an
Speaker 3: agreement to share information of like, hey, we're going to
Speaker 3: go do this on this day.
Speaker 2: So it's a delicate balance.
Speaker 3: But what we're seeing is increasing pressure on ICE one
Speaker 3: to up its arrest It's been made abundantly clear to
Speaker 3: ICE officials three thousand arrests minimum a day.
Speaker 2: Steven Miller has talked about this.
Speaker 3: A Chief aid to the President, who's one of the
Speaker 3: chief architects of the immigration policy. He wants more, and
Speaker 3: he wants, you know, a million plus apprehensions a year
Speaker 3: and deportations, and he wants this mass deportation carried out
Speaker 3: at any cost. He has said in social media posts,
Speaker 3: federal law is supreme. You don't get a vote and
Speaker 3: buy and large, speaking to Mark Karen Bass in that context.
Speaker 3: So it's tense, and it's getting tenser. You know, where
Speaker 3: does it end? Court is undoubtedly where it ends.
Speaker 1: How do you think that mayors of other cities, governors
Speaker 1: of other states are watching what's unfolding here? Do you
Speaker 1: see this as a test case something that they might
Speaker 1: have to prepare themselves for in other places?
Speaker 2: I think certainly.
Speaker 3: You know, the President made it clear yesterday when he said,
Speaker 3: and this is a paraphrase, but troops everywhere.
Speaker 2: Now, it was unclear from his order.
Speaker 3: You know, the order did not make specific notation of California.
Speaker 3: There's been discussion prior to this of mobilizing twenty thousand
Speaker 3: National Guard troops to aid with the mass deportation.
Speaker 2: The question has always.
Speaker 3: Lingered, is that aiding in civilian law enforcement, which of
Speaker 3: course runs up against possi coomatatis and the long standing
Speaker 3: legal principle that the military does not have a role
Speaker 3: in civilian law enforcement, in fact, is strictly.
Speaker 2: Prohibited from that.
Speaker 3: Does this now test that does he invoke the Insurrection Act?
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of discussion of that right. The
Speaker 3: Tray of Defense, Pete hag Seth has said, hey, I've
Speaker 3: got marines on standby at Camp Pendleton. Well, marines are
Speaker 3: built for one thing, right, and that's war fighting.
Speaker 1: By late Monday afternoon, the federal government had mobilized five
Speaker 1: hundred marines to respond to the LA protests.
Speaker 2: You know, is this Pandora's box?
Speaker 3: I suspect is the question are we in for another
Speaker 3: summer of broad civil unrest, not just here in Los
Speaker 3: Angeles but in other communities. We've seen community responses in Massachusetts,
Speaker 3: in other communities where large raids have taken place and
Speaker 3: you know, arrests outside immigration courthouses.
Speaker 2: We've seen responses.
Speaker 3: Generally they have been peaceful, perhaps loud, but we've not
Speaker 3: seen what we're seeing here in Los Angeles. And I
Speaker 3: think other mayors, if you are Chicago, if you are Boston,
Speaker 3: if you are in New York, and there's been a
Speaker 3: lot of imaginations in.
Speaker 2: New York, of course, over you know, will they help?
Speaker 2: Will they not?
Speaker 3: You have to be looking at this and saying, I
Speaker 3: wonder what's next?
Speaker 2: Is this about to happen here?
Speaker 3: If you're a mayor of a large city, you have
Speaker 3: to be thinking to yourself, maybe I should chat with
Speaker 3: my governor, Maybe I should chat with my police and
Speaker 3: have some preparations.
Speaker 2: I cannot fathom a.
Speaker 3: World in which a well positioned mayor doesn't say to themselves,
Speaker 3: we might have something.
Speaker 1: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerra.
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