1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: for people with something to hide? Have you ever had 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that a partner of cheating, 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Truth 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, assets, 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: and a lot more. You get it all in one 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: easy to read report. Why work out thousands of dollars 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: to a private eye when you can do the job yourself. 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime stories with Nancy Grace 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: on sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Did a 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: beautiful young woman actually murder her lover and feed his 14 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: remains two guests at a barbecue? As fantastical as that sounds, 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: there is evidence that Kelly Cochrane not only murdered her lover, 16 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: but also her husband. As a matter of fact, this 17 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: brunette beauty may be responsible for at least a dozen deaths. 18 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: And joining me right now as a special guest, the 19 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: former Iron River City, Michigan Police Chief Laura Frizzo, who 20 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: has investigated and prosecuted this woman Kelly Cochrane. Also with me, 21 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, host of the hit 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: show on investigation, Discovery, Fatal Vows forensics expert, Professor of 23 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, and with 24 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: me from daily mail dot Com Sean Waltz. To all 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: of you, thank you for being with us. First, to you, 26 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: Laura Frizo, former Iron River City, Michigan police chief. When 27 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: did this woman, Kelly Cochrane first make a blip on 28 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: your radar? Um? Well, actually it was the day that 29 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: I took the complaint from a friend of my victim, 30 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: Chris Reagan Um, who said that she believed something was 31 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: wrong and that he was missing. It was probably within 32 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: twelve hours of taking that initial complaint. Wow. Wow, you 33 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: know what, Sean Walsh, dailymail dot Com. We've got two 34 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: stories to cover. Thank goodness. We've got uh former police 35 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: chief Frizo with us. Sean. We've got the husband we 36 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: think was killed by her, and the lover or the 37 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: lover as you like to say. Let's start with the 38 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: one that ended up on the barbecue pitch Sean, Well, 39 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: this is an interesting one. Her friends and family have 40 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: told investigators this stomach churning tale of how Cochrane allegedly 41 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: served the lovers remains to her neighbors at a barbecue. 42 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of disgusting. Nancy and one of those stories 43 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: that left Daily Mail read is shocked that this could 44 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: actually be happening. But I don't understand too. Laura Friso, 45 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: former chief, Laura, why would we think? And first of all, 46 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: I got a problem with Sean Walsh to say that, oh, 47 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: this is really interesting. You've got a very unique definition 48 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: of interesting, Sean. But that's a whole another can of worms, Chief, 49 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: if I may call you that. Why do you believe 50 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: that the lover ends up all the barbecue pit? You know, 51 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: it was an interview that I did with UM, Jason 52 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: and Kelly Cochrane's neighbors, UM, who really ultimately are the 53 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: only ones that socialized UM spent any time with them, 54 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: UM and through this the It was a three hour 55 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: interview that I did with them in which I let 56 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: them basically talk to each other to kind of, you know, 57 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: remember things that had occurred UM shortly after or around 58 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: the time time of Chris Reagan's um disappearance. So, um, 59 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, Kelly Cochrane had been fired from her job. 60 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: They didn't have an income. The neighbors recall you know, 61 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: having them over for dinner because they felt bad for him. 62 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: They weren't they weren't eating, they didn't have any food, 63 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: they didn't have any money. Um. They recall, you know, 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: this is that the same interview where they recalled you know, 65 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: hearing these power tools running during the middle of the night. Um. 66 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: And then it was you know, the week after that, 67 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, the Cochranes are inviting them over for dinner. 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: They had them over three times that week for dinner. 69 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: They thought that was odd. Where did they get the money? 70 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: And you know, then they recalled how there was you know, 71 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: just an abundance of meat that that it was you know, 72 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, nothing really any side, just just to go 73 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: with it with the meat. It was just shish Kabab's 74 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: one night and it was you know, tacos one night, 75 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: it was pizza. It was a lot of meat. That's 76 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: what they recalled. And this is something that they recalled 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: while talking to each other. This wasn't me questioning or um, 78 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, kind of heading them in an direction. This 79 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: is just you know, what they came to know through 80 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: their own discussion. That was actually the first time that 81 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: I became aware of the possibility of dismemberment um, which, 82 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: as you know, we found out did occur. Um. So 83 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: as things went on and you know, later finding you know, 84 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: Chris Reagan's you know skull um and that being the 85 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: only part of Chris Reagan that we found. Um, there's 86 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: been many and unanswered questions for me regarding you know, 87 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: what actually did take place and that, you know, if 88 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: something like this could have occurred. Uh. Former police chief 89 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: of Iron River City, Michigan, Laura Freesday with me, Chief, 90 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: You've got me. I'm drinking out of fire hydrant here. 91 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: It's just too much to take in. I'm talking about 92 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: a barbecue spit where they serve nothing but meat, no sides, 93 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: no buns, no salad, nothing, and they vite them over 94 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: three times in one week. They have tacos, they have 95 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: shishka Bob's, nothing where you can really identify if it's 96 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: a chicken or a steak, all right, And I find 97 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: that Seawan Walsh dailymail dot com very probative, in other words, 98 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: proving something It's not like you couca rotisserie chicken and 99 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: you can look in the oven and there's a chicken, 100 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: or you grilled steaks and you can see the t bone. 101 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: It's meat that has been processed in a way you 102 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: don't know what it is. It's a mystery meat. Like 103 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: I asked the children when you have at school mystery meat. Well, 104 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: why do you say that because I don't know what 105 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: it was. It was just in a taco I don't 106 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: know what it was. Here you've got Shishka Bob's and 107 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: no veggies, just the meat. Then you've got tacos. I 108 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: forgot what the chief said was the third night. But 109 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: it's mystery. It's a mystery meat. That's it sounds like 110 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: when I stopped by a food truck at Manhattan at 111 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: one am in the morning. Well that's why you should 112 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: not go to a food truck in Manhattan one night. 113 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: And first of all, nothing good happens after midnight, Seawan. 114 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I've told you to go home and be inside before midnight. 115 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: Everything goes sideways after midnight. You don't need to be 116 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: out walking around at a food truck. But again, why 117 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: is it always with you, Sean? It's always another can 118 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: of worms. All right, there's just you just go off 119 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: these down these rabbit holes, back back to do you chief? 120 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: Can you can you tell me that one more time? 121 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: The neighbors say in one week, First they hear power 122 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: tools all night, then they're invited over. Now I assume 123 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: you're saying the husband and Kelly Marie Cochrane invite them 124 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: over because she's accused of helping her husband kill and 125 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: dismember the boyfriend. Then she's charged with killing the husband 126 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: to quote even the score. So if they in quote's 127 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: aviting neighbors over, I'm assume as her and the husband 128 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: are inviting neigh reserver. Yes, that's correct, cheef. Why would 129 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: they want to kill the boyfriend? Why not just break 130 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: up with him and be done with it. Well, that was, 131 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, a puzzled for a long time. I mean, um, 132 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: in from the very beginning of the investigation, I kind 133 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: of went from you know, you know, thinking it's most 134 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: likely that the husband, you know, UM, had an issue 135 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: with the affair and he you know, he snapped, he 136 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: had some emotional issues and you know, basically was looking 137 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: at him like, you know, he's the one, UM. And 138 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: as time went on, and I was able to obtain 139 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: UM an extraction from you know, Kelly Cochrane's phone and 140 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: read some you know, text messages and communications. As I 141 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, spent time reading those and going through their history. 142 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: It became very evident to me that UM, that wasn't 143 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: the case, that this was Kelly's idea, that UM, this 144 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: was something that you know, sadly actually turned her on UM. 145 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: And that was evident in a text message that she 146 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: sent to her husband just following the death of Chris Reagan, 147 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: you know, I mean again and talking about the history 148 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: of the text messages between them. Prior to Chris Reagan 149 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: being killed. You know, Kelly and Jason did not have 150 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: a good relationship. She was not good to him, She 151 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: was mentally abusive to him. She was controlling, He was 152 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: treated very poorly UM by her. UM. She definitely controlled 153 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: everything he did. UM. And once Chris Reagan was out 154 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: of the picture. And I want to say, the day 155 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: following you know, she's death, she's texting her husband, you know, UM, 156 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: calling him handsome, telling him that she's on her way 157 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: home and that she wants him to know bleep her. 158 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know if I can say that word on 159 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: on this program. UM, so basically very I usually says, yeah, 160 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: very explicit sexual messages. Um completely Um, the opposite of 161 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the kind of relationship she had or the way she 162 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: spoke to prior what police believe went down. Uh, and 163 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: just got Morgan. I want you to weigh in on 164 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: how the difficulty you face in dismembering. It's not like 165 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: Dexter okay, where which I love by the way, where 166 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: you see Dexter who this is a I guess it 167 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: was HBO or USA, can't remember anymore long running series 168 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: where Dexter worked at a crime lab in Florida and 169 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: would find out about bad guys that slipped through the 170 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: carracks and you go killed him. He was a serial killer, 171 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: and he would do it in such a way that 172 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: there was never any forensic evidence left behind. And in 173 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: a TV show to take about twenty seconds for him 174 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: to dismember somebody and get rid of the body. That's 175 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: not how it is. So I want you on the 176 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: reality of that. But police believe that this woman, Kelly 177 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: Cochrane and her husband Jason, came up with a plan 178 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: that the next night she would lure her boyfriend Christopher 179 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: Reagan who's also a co worker, to her home with 180 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: the promise of sex, and that Jason would then kill him. 181 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what the motivation was, but that 182 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: was the plan. The plan worked, and when Jason quote 183 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: caught Regan with his wife, he shot him dead. Then 184 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: the dismemberment began. Joe's got Morgan forensics expert. How difficult 185 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: is it really to dismember someone? It's it is, It 186 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: is quite the chore. Uh. Nancy, Uh spent a lot 187 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: of time in the morgue over the years, over seven 188 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: thousand pro sections of bodies during that period of time. 189 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: And Uh, I've had some experience at this sort of 190 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: thing in the morgue, and it's it's not for the 191 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: faint of heart, and it's it's not to be done 192 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: entered into lightly without the proper tools. UM. I'd like 193 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: to say, first off, Chief, Uh, it's an honor to 194 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: meet you. I think that you're a very brave person. UM. 195 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: And Uh, I'm I'm This whole case has got me 196 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: uh really thinking a lot here. Harkening back to what 197 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: Nancy said about dismemberment. UM, I'm amazed you said that 198 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: you guys had recovered the skull. I'm interested because one 199 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: of the things here, you know, you mentioned, UM, you 200 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: mentioned the sound of power tools, and obviously that's that 201 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: is something that's in the forefront of your mind here 202 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: when you found his skull, did you, guys, at any 203 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: point in time consult like a tool mark tool mark 204 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: expert to see how the skull was essentially removed from 205 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: the body. Were there any marks on there to indicate 206 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: that there was a tie back to any specific type 207 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: of tool good question? What about it? Chase? That is 208 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: a good question. UM. You know, it's yeah, you know, 209 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: when we when we located the skull, it was you know, 210 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: the lower jaw was missing. There was a you know, 211 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: the first thing that I looked for was the UM 212 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: wound to the back of the head as Kelly had described. 213 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: That's where he had been shot. UM and located that. UM. 214 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: You know, I had the Emmy out to take and 215 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: collect the skull. The skull was sent to UM, you know, 216 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: out to a forensic anthropologist UM for further examination and identification. UM. 217 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: And I really, you know, I'm not sure that it 218 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: was even you know, able to be UM. Well, it's 219 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: the lower jaw was missing. He would not see a 220 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: tool market at the neck right. For me personally, there 221 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: was no indication of anything there, but again there was 222 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: a lot missing. Yeah, Chief, I was wondering, was there 223 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: you talk about this injury to the back of the 224 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: skull and I'm assuming, um uh, that there was an 225 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: indication that this is a farms injury. Was there any 226 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of communicating injury on the forward aspect of the skull, 227 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: like you know what? Did it appear to be a 228 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: through and through injury? Were you guys able to recover 229 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: a projectile? Did they bring out metal detectors and this 230 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: sort of thing to search the area? So interesting? Interestingly enough, 231 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: the I mean, did look for that possibility of damage 232 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, within the skull for you know, possible um 233 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, exit wound or injury to the inside from 234 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: that projectile and was not able to determine that. However, 235 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: there was an area um of the the left side 236 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: of the cheek bone that was missing, and amazingly enough, 237 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: we recovered that piece really you know, probably I don't know, 238 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: within two to three yards from where the skull start 239 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: and that was the only other piece of human bones 240 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: that we recovered in that entire area. Wow, And I 241 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: think I know why to Shaun Watch with Daily Mail 242 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Isn't it true that it is believed that 243 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: Kelly Cochrane used an electric saw known as a saw's all, 244 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: so husband Jason could cut up the corpse and then 245 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: they divided his body between garbage bags and through the 246 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: bags in the woods around the Iron River in Michigan's 247 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: Upper Peninsula. I believe that that's the theory cops used 248 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: on the dismembering of the body, which because I was 249 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: trying to describe some really hard thing to do, Sean. 250 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: That's correct, Nancy, and that's what dam has been reporting 251 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: that the Cochrane said about dismembering Reagan's body. She later 252 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: admitted to getting a cord for an electric cancer as 253 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: you called it, this dorsal, and so Jason Cochrane could 254 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: indeed cut up the corpse. Now, the body was believed 255 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: to have been divided amongst multiple garbage bags and thrown 256 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: into the woods around Iron Michigan in the Upper Peninsula. 257 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: Beagan was then reported missing a few days later, and 258 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: his car was found abandoned at a park and rode 259 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: a lot about four miles east of Iron River. Okay, 260 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: So he's reported several days later, I guess when he 261 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: doesn't show up where they had both worked. His car 262 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: then found, as Shaun Walts tells us, at a parking 263 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: ride about four miles east of the Iron River. Now, 264 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: according to the local news, the Daily News, there police 265 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: hone in on Kelly Cochrane because she's the last one 266 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: to see the boyfriend, and remember she's still married this time. 267 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: Police search her home with the FBI, and they found nothing, 268 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist host 269 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: are the hits reason I d fatal vows Dr Brian, 270 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: can you imagine how difficult it must have been to 271 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: clean up the scene of a dismemberment of the body. 272 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: That leads me to think they took him somewhere else 273 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: to dismember him, because they found nothing when they first 274 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: went to search the home. Yeah, absolutely, if, if, if, 275 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: what the neighbors heard with the power tools was the 276 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: dismemberment going on in that house, it's almost and just 277 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: got Morgan, of course, is the forensics expert here, but 278 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: it's almost inconceivable in my experience that there would not 279 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: be a trace of that activity on the scene. You know, 280 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: this this case is so it is so morbidly fascinating 281 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: because it really is like the movie and the musical 282 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd Come to life, in which you know, of 283 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: course that the husband played by Johnny Depp in movie 284 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: was the barber, the demon barber of Fleet Street, who 285 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: would kill the clients in the barber chair with the 286 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: straight razor, and then the wife who had the bake 287 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: bakery downstairs, would bake the remains into mincemeat pies and 288 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: and serve them to uh serve them to customers. And 289 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: there's this idea of of not only do you have 290 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: a murderer or murderers, but you also have the additionally 291 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: almost almost unfathomably grizzly pleasure that they take and then 292 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: getting unsuspecting third parties to participate in their cannibalism unknowingly. 293 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: And so you know, if I didn't know from being 294 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: on Investigation Discovery for six years that the network is 295 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: about real stories about real people, you know, you you 296 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: would really just think that this is some kind of 297 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: adaptation of Sweeney Todd. Just bring up the spect of 298 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: Sweeney Todd. I hear, I hear you, so Dr Dr 299 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: Brian Russell just got Morgan Shawn Walsh to form of 300 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: Chief Laura Frizzo there an Iron river city. Where do 301 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: you think they dismembered the body of the boyfriend? I 302 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: think that they did it right there in the house, 303 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: in the basement, like UM, we suspected um. You know, 304 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: as you know, it's hard to um collect samples in 305 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, in concrete or areas of high iron um. 306 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: And one thing that we did notice later UM on 307 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, subject coined searches in that house, UM, was 308 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: that you know, the cochranes had these huge roles of 309 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: plastic you know that you would generally use if you 310 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: were going to um, you know, winter rise your windows 311 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: or whatever. And so we have these huge roles of plastic. 312 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: And one thing we noted in the basement later was, 313 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, why is there some of this plastic kind 314 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: of hanging up in the rafters and and stapled up 315 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 1: onto the rafters. UM so what wooden beams on the 316 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: ceiling of the basement. And I kind of looked at 317 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: that area and and realized that it's very very probable 318 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: that you know, they had UM kind of like a 319 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: little tent area there UM where they actually you know, wow, 320 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: it is just like dexter that is exactly like the 321 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: way Dexter with dismember bodies. Well, one thing to notice 322 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: that that Kelly Cochrane has You know, she went to 323 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: college for forensics um, and she has a degree in psychology. 324 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: So um, this is someone you know who actually knew 325 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: not only how to act in her interviews or um 326 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: not to act um, but she also was very familiar 327 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: with the forensic angle of things. Okay. So even though 328 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning police found nothing to suggest the murder 329 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: had according to home, Cochrane gets aunts and she and 330 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: her husband pack up and move to Indiana. Police go 331 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: on with your investigation, and they believe that she is 332 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: a person of interest. But a year passes and still 333 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: they got nothing. Then take a listen to this one 334 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: call Kelly Cochrane makes the day of her husband's death. Husband, 335 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: This is like, well, he's breathing barely, I don't know 336 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: a tongue he's throwing off, he's sweating. I need an 337 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: ambulance right away. Okay. Are you in a hotel? Is 338 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: that a hotel? No, I'm I'm at a home. Okay, 339 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: And when old is the person? Just give me ambulance 340 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: here now, Okay, stay on the line. With me. Okay, 341 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: you said he's breathing, difficulty breathing. Okay, I can't understand 342 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: what you're saying, difficulties breathing, sweating. Well, I'm on the 343 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: phone with what Okay, I need an ambulance you right away. 344 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: They have been dispatched, but I need you to stand 345 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: on the line. She goes on to write, and I 346 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: think I need to shrink on this, Dr Brian. She 347 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: goes on too. Right, she holds a memorial service, writing 348 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: on Facebook that his her husband's death was quote the 349 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: hardest thing I will ever have to deal with. All Right, 350 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: Dr Brian, we know in retrospect she killed her husband 351 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: and she is writing on Facebook, this is the hardest 352 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: thing I've ever had to deal with. Help me out, Brian. Well, 353 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, some of the most depraved killers that we 354 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: see are actually quite good at manipulating other peoples. It's 355 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: one of the hallmarks of the sociopath is that they 356 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: actually understand pretty well what makes other people take it. 357 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: And this is actually, this is actually, uh the kind 358 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: of intelligence that we're really talking about when we talk 359 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: about the sociopath. Many people say, oh, you know, sociopaths 360 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: and psychopaths they're actually they're very intelligent, and and really 361 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily true in terms of intelligence like we 362 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: would measure with an i Q test, like being able 363 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: to do math problems and put puzzles together. Some of 364 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: them are intelligent like that, and they're extremely dangerous because 365 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: they can actually think of ways to to really minimize 366 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: evidence and and reduce the chance of getting caught and 367 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: do lots of damage before they have caught. But but 368 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: how they're really intelligent is is emotionally intelligent. They are 369 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: able to figure out, how do I manipulate other people 370 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: into becoming my victims? And then after the fact, how 371 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: do I manipulate other people into thinking that I am 372 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: a victim myself or that I had nothing to do 373 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: with this. You know, you might wonder what was the 374 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: mode of the first time around when the boyfriend the 375 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: lover was killed and now the husband, Well, maybe the 376 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: two are linked regarding motive taken. Listen to what Hobart, 377 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: Indiana police detective Jeremy Ogden says. And I remember the 378 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: husband and the wife, Kelly moved to Indiana after the 379 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: lover is murdered. Here's what Indiana police say. He and 380 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: her husband had entered into this agreement on their wedding 381 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: night that if one had an affair on the other, 382 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: that it was their responsibility to kill the person that 383 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: they had the affair with, and that if they didn't 384 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: take care of their responsibility, then the other one could 385 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: kill them. She's a very calculating, manipulative killer. I wouldn't 386 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: necessarily put that number on it. I would say that, 387 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, I'm pretty positive that there are others to 388 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: Shaun Walts with me daily mail dot com Sean. Okay, 389 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: So the lover's murdered, She and the husband moved to Indiana. 390 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: The husband suddenly dies of an her dose and she 391 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: is plying the graving window. So how is she connected 392 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: to his overdose? How do police know that was not 393 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: an accident? Well, it's interesting. So you say that she 394 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: moved to Indiana. You make it sound really lovely, Nancy, 395 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: But in fact, she was spooked and her and her 396 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: husband packed everything up as quickly as they couldn't. They 397 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: moved to Lake Carnie, Indiana. The police continued their investigation, 398 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: with Kelly listed a person of interest, and even though 399 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: your past, they still had nothing. Then in February of 400 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: Jason died of an apparent heroin overdose. Kelly held the 401 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: memorial service, as you said, and she talked about how 402 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 1: hard it was to deal with, but police still weren't 403 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: buying it. Michigan authorities then charged Kelly with j with 404 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: Reagan's death. UM, the U. S. Marshal Service tracted down 405 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: in Kentucky, which she was arrested that April and taken 406 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: into custody. But how did they do it? Chief red So, 407 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: how did they determine that the husband died of a 408 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: murder not an accidental O D So? I had been 409 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: communicating with Hobart P. D UM from the time that 410 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: Kelly and Jason fled Michigan after I did that initial 411 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: search warrant and UM just keeping an eye on them 412 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: and you know, kind of monitoring what they're doing and 413 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: how they're living. UM, you know, because there were other 414 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: things that we needed to take care of with them 415 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: and we wanted to be able to locate them. So 416 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: Hobart really UM kept an eye on things and worked 417 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: with us quite closely. And so when Jason Cochrane died 418 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: and we got word of that, there was actually a 419 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: tip called into the FBI tipline as well as Hobart 420 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: p D from a friend of Jason Cochran's who who said, 421 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, my friend is is dead. I just got news, 422 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: and you know, his message was, I feel like something's 423 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: not right. I feel like the life might have been involved. 424 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: And of course getting that that call on the tipline 425 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: was huge because UM, investigators weren't called to the scene 426 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: of Jason's death, and and had that not happened, it 427 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: could have been you know, the medical examiner may have 428 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: not done as thorough a search for the indication of 429 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: a homicide versus the overdose. And so because of those things, UM, 430 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: Detective Agen jumped in. He attended the autopsy. UM they didn't, 431 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, a very thorough examination. UM. And then from 432 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: that point Detective Ogten just jumped right in and and investigated. 433 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: This is what we learned. Police in Indiana gets suspicious 434 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: that her version of what happened to night her husband died. 435 00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: It kept changing, and as Chief Rizzo told you, investigators 436 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: were not called to the scene of the overdose because 437 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: they thought it was an accident overdose. They got their 438 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: uh E m T s found Jason unresponsive, They could 439 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: not revive him, and it looked like he died of 440 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: an overdose, But when he goes for autopsy, the Indiana 441 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: Lake County Corner discover the husband, Jason, did not die 442 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: of an overdose. He died from asphyxiation, not heroin. That 443 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: is how they knew it was not an accidental overdose. 444 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: It was a strangulation or a smothering. Now the Postphibian 445 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: reports that it's believed she Kelly delivered an overdose of 446 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: heroin to her husband and then put her hands on 447 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: his neck, nose, and mouth until he died about one 448 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: minute later. That is how we know it was not 449 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: an o d it was asphyxiation. To Joseph Scott Morgan, 450 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: a limited question, how can you tell someone has been 451 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: smothered or strangled? Debt. In the event that someone has 452 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: been smothered or strangled, you're gonna look in the eyes 453 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: for particular hemorrhages, and also on the surface of the neck. 454 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: If they did an autopsy, there might be hemorrhage into 455 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: the small muscles in the neck as well. In this 456 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: particular case, take a listen to Hobart, Indiana Police detective 457 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: Jeremy Ogden. She put it back on her husband as 458 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: calling him, you know a monster, maybe possibly two different 459 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: people on the side of one person. And uh and 460 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: I think the judge called it right after her statement 461 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: was over with. The judge said, you know, he feels 462 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: the same as probably most of the people in the 463 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: room that that she's the monster. To Dr Brian Russell, 464 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: lawyer and psychologist on Discoveries Fatal Vow series, how do 465 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: you get to this point in a marriage where the 466 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: two of you were cheating, or one of you is 467 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: cheating and you have a quote pact to kill the 468 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: other everybody you you sleep with that the two of 469 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: you will then kill them. It's crazy, Dr Brian, But 470 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: these people were not crazy. Yeah, you know, we've talked 471 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: on this show so many times about and certainly that's 472 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: what Fatal Vows is all about, right, marriages that that 473 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: have ended in some kind of a murder of somebody involved. 474 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: And we've talked about in those contexts of the fact 475 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: that when you have a cheating situation in a marriage, 476 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: everybody involved is in danger. That the cheating spouses in danger, 477 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: the cheated a hunt spouses in danger, the person with 478 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: whom the cheating spouse is cheating is in danger, and 479 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: and it's it is uh, you know, a morbidly fascinating 480 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: illustration of of the fatal vows situation here, because what 481 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: we appear to have initially is a cheating situation in 482 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: which the justification then for killing that the affair partner 483 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: is that, you know, we're gonna make this right somehow, 484 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: We're going to give the husband the satisfaction of seeing 485 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: the fair partner killed and dismembered, maybe even consumed, Okay, 486 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: And then once that's done, then the husband becomes the target. 487 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: And so you know, what we have here is this 488 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: love triangle, and and only one of the three uh 489 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: endpoints is still around, and that is this woman who 490 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: apparently she she comes up with whatever reasons she needs 491 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: needs to wait. Wait wait, wait, wait wait White Laura 492 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: Frisi with us former Iron River City, Michigan police chief. 493 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: You actually had a chance to sit down and speak 494 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: with Kelly cochrane. What did she say to you? Um? 495 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: I Actually I sat down with her while she was 496 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: in her jail cell the very first night she was 497 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: brought to Michigan from Kentucky. Um, And she told me 498 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about her life. She kind of opened up. 499 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: It was a different side of her. I'm not sure 500 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: why she was presenting that UM, but through that discussion 501 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: she told me many things about herself and how you know, 502 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: she was born the way she is. Nothing that happened 503 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: in her life to cause her to be that way. 504 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: She doesn't have feelings. She doesn't feel sadness or remorse. UM. 505 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: And you know, actually the following day we continued our 506 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: discussion and I asked her, you know, how do you 507 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: choose your victims? And her answer to me was opportunity. Opportunity. Wow. 508 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: Listen to this. At the Caspian pit behind her house, 509 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Kelly shows police where she and Jason tossed part of 510 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: the murder weapon. That's a big stone directly in front 511 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: of me, right before that red graft or whatever that is, 512 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: so about in that area a little to the right 513 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: and backward us a little. That's not far because I 514 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: figured I'd never tell anybody. When the Michigan State Police 515 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: divemaster called me and let me know that they found 516 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: the gun, I was extremely excited. Obviously for me. It 517 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: was validation. At Kelly's old house where she claims her 518 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: late husband Jason Shunt Chris, Kelly points out a crucial 519 00:33:52,320 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: piece of physical evidence overlooked when investigators conducted multiple searches. Yeah, 520 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. You're saying you use them, 521 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: Kelly says. Jason made her news forceps to try and 522 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: pull the bullet out of Chris Reagan's scull. Did you 523 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: know about a recent law that could leave your personal 524 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned 525 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the Internet has created 526 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. Data breaches exposed private information, There's 527 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: a new cybersecurity threat every other day, and criminals can 528 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: sell the identity of you and your family on the 529 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 1: dark web. It's time you take the power back by 530 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: using a new website called truth Finder. Truth Finder allows 531 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: you to find out exactly what information exists about you online. 532 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: Have you gotten a speeding ticket, received a lean from 533 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 1: the I r S, forgotten about an embarrassing social media profile. 534 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: Truth Finders searches through millions of public records, puts all 535 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: that data together and one easy to read report. Members 536 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 537 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something 538 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: from their past. You also get free dark web monitoring 539 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: to make truth Finder the ultimate tool in identity protection. 540 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: If your personal INMFO appears for sale on the dark web, 541 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: you'll be the first to know. Visit truth finder dot 542 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: com slash Nancy, enter your own name. Get started to 543 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: Shaun Walts from dailymail dot com, who's been on the 544 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: story from the beginning. We're talking about a young woman 545 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: who injects her husband with a lethal dose of heroin, 546 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: then smothers him with a pillow, who may have killed 547 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: others and even served her lover's remains at a barbecue. Sean, 548 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: why do you believe she is now linked to about 549 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: nine other murders at the minimum. I mean, it's frightening, Nancy. 550 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: It's beyond frightening that this is the case, because, as 551 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: you said, as someone else just pointed out, it would 552 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: make her azero killer. But she she's making these claims. 553 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 1: So we just have to see if this is the case. 554 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got brilliant investigators on the case here, 555 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: and how great it is to have them on the 556 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: call today. But I mean, this will lead us to 557 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: the determination if this is the case. I mean, I 558 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: it takes my breath away to be honest, you know, Sean, 559 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: another fatality in this case was what happened to Chief 560 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: Laura Frizzo because, according to the city manager, she was 561 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: quote bullheaded in her investigation style and ended up choosing 562 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: between her job as police chief and catching a killer. 563 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: Listen to this. My name is Laura Frizzo. I used 564 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: to be the police chief here in the Iron River. 565 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: But I had to make a choice. I could either 566 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: remain the chief or I could catch a killer. Police 567 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: and Iron River aren't asking for help. You know anything 568 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: about his whereabouts. You asked to contact the police department. 569 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: He's gone. I had no doubt in my mind something 570 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: terrible has happened. It's not a missing person case. This 571 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: is you're telling you that's blood right. We got a 572 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: positive reaction. Carry why she was the mastermind behind it all. 573 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: She doesn't have feeling. She doesn't feel standness, she doesn't 574 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: feel remorse. I wasn't gonna give up pretty night. You 575 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: know that not in my DNA Shawn Walls da limail 576 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: dot com. Did you hear that, Nancy. If something was 577 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: to happen to a member of my family and God, 578 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: I pray to God that it never does, I would 579 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: want Chief Frizzo on the case. Chief Frizzo is one 580 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: of those dedicated police chiefs that you want in your corner, 581 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: and I think what happened to her was a travesty. 582 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: And I think that any police department in this country 583 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: or around the world would be lucky to have someone 584 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: like Chief Frizzo running that apartment with me is Chief Frizzo, 585 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: along with jos Scott Morgan and Dr Brian Russell, Laura Frizzo. 586 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: It hurts me that, you know, not just you, but 587 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: very often when women stick to their guns, their quote 588 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: bullheaded or a bit you ended up being related of 589 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: your duties, just as just as Kelly Cochrane admits to 590 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: having other quote friends buried in Indiana, Michigan, Tennessee and Minnesota. 591 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: Looks like you weren't bullheaded, you were, right, Chief Razo. Yeah, 592 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: I mean there is a lot to that other part 593 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: of life for me. Um that it's obviously been killing 594 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: me because I am very I tend to be very 595 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: ospelf and honest forthcoming. But um, unfortunately, I you know, 596 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to discuss that at a later date, 597 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: and there's a lot to be said about it. It's, um, 598 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: it's killing me that I can't discuss it, and but 599 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: it is actually it's in litigation. I understand, I understand that. 600 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: And that's a whole another tangent, a whole another side 601 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: avenue to this case. What happens. What we're talking about 602 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: now is are there other victims of Kelly cochrane and 603 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: Laura Frazzo. You were on the case and closer to 604 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: the case than anyone explained to me. Why you believe 605 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: there are so many other victims, maybe past a dozen. 606 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: Well again, I mean I honestly, you know, two to 607 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: three months into the initial investigation of Chris Reagan's disappearance 608 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: and going through you know, documents, phone records, UM, and 609 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: and other things. UM, it was very apparent that, UM, 610 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: these people were were good at what they did. UM, 611 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: this couldn't have been a first time for them. And 612 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: I adamantly believe that there could have been something shortly 613 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: before they left Indiana to come to Michigan, UM that 614 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: caused them to move the way they did. But I 615 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: believe that, UM, for as well as they were able 616 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: to compose them selves, answer questions, clean up, UM, this 617 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,919 Speaker 1: is not there's no way this is the first time 618 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: for these people. So learning later on, you know, a 619 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: year later that there's potentially other victims coming from her 620 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: own mouths. Um, there's no doubt in my mind that 621 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 1: there are other victims. Guys. There's a two part documentary 622 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: airing on Investigation Discovery and it tells Kelly cochrane story 623 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: through the eyes of the Iron River Michigan Police chief. 624 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: Then Laura Friso, who was pulled into the case after 625 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: the lover Chris Reagan goes missing. I mean, question Laura Friso, 626 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: what DoD Reagan's family have to say about all this. Well, 627 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: that's why the opportunity was so good for for Kelly Cochrane, 628 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 1: because you know, Chris Regan was new to the area 629 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: in Upper Michigan. Um. He really he had no family there. 630 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: He had only been there, um, approximately nine and a 631 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: half ten months, um, and so he really didn't have 632 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: an He was a very private man, so he really 633 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: didn't have friends. He didn't socialize. Um. So um. His 634 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: his two boys were young, um at the time. I 635 00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: mean they're still young, but they were you know, early twenties. Um. 636 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: And they um, you know, their parents, their father and 637 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 1: mother were divorced, you know a few years before so 638 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: um for them, Um, they were just kind of in 639 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: a state of shock. They didn't know really how to react. 640 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: And the first time I met them and saw that look, 641 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: and I just I felt so sorry for them, thinking, 642 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: you know, they have no idea how to handle this, 643 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: They have no idea what direction to go in. UM. 644 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: And they're very private there. Um. You know, every time 645 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: I would learn a new detail, UM, they are the 646 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: first ones I would contact. UM. I wanted them to 647 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: be prepared for what was going to be said or 648 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: what you know, and and how to avoid it if 649 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: they didn't want to hear it, you know, But I 650 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,320 Speaker 1: tried to keep them prepared every step of the way. 651 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: Isn't it true, Laura that Cochrane's own brother says he 652 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: believes his sister is a serial killer. And then when 653 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: your own brother says that, that's you know, the first 654 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: time I met with her brother, UM, I asked him. 655 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: The first thing I asked him was you know, how 656 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: long have you known that your sister is this way? 657 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: And he said, you mean a sociopath? Um, that was 658 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: his response. So they had they had a good relationship, 659 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: they did. I mean, he's considerably younger than her, UM, 660 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: so a lot of his memories are you know, from 661 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: when he was a young a young boy. Um. But 662 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, he for whatever reason knew that, you know, 663 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: she had the potential to be exactly what she is. 664 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: It's something that he sensed from a young age. Wow. 665 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: So she was that way her whole life from what 666 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: his you know, from what his account of things are. Yes, 667 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: even even listening to Kelly, you know, I have discussions 668 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: with her mom, you know, on the phone. UM. I mean, 669 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: her family knew that there was something with her forever. Um. 670 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 1: I just don't think they line of course, who would 671 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: what her potential was. It's a showdown between good and 672 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: evil serial killer Kelly Cochrane versus the then Iron City 673 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: Police Chief Laura Frizzo, and it will all play out 674 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: in a documentary on investigation, discovery and the search for 675 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: her other victims goes on. Take a listen to what Hobart, 676 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: Indiana Police Detective Jeremy Ogden says. I have two cases 677 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:37,240 Speaker 1: that I've asked her about. UM, I have nothing else 678 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 1: that I can provide on those situations, But you never know. 679 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 1: One day Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend. 680 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal 681 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find. If you turned 682 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the Internet has created 683 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the 684 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: power by using a new website called truth Finder. Have 685 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: you been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean from 686 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: the I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing social 687 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: media profile? That info may already be online. Truth Finder 688 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: can help you find it. Truth Finder searches millions of 689 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: public records, assembling the data together in one report. Members 690 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 691 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 692 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name, 693 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: get started.