1 00:00:05,260 --> 00:00:08,060 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I am Rashawn McDonald, the host 2 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:11,790 Speaker 1: of Money Making Conversations Masterclass, where we encourage people to 3 00:00:11,820 --> 00:00:15,550 Speaker 1: stop reading other people's success stories and start planning their own. 4 00:00:16,170 --> 00:00:18,930 Speaker 1: Listen up as I interview entrepreneurs. 5 00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:21,770 Speaker 2: From around the country, talk to celebrities and ask them 6 00:00:22,010 --> 00:00:24,910 Speaker 2: how they are running their companies and speak with nonprofits 7 00:00:25,150 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: who are making a difference in their local communities. Now 8 00:00:28,140 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: sit back and listen as we unlock the secrets to 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: their success on Money Making Conversations Masterclass. 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,540 Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome. It's another day. It's another time for Money 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: Making Conversations Masterclass. I am the host of the show, 12 00:00:42,870 --> 00:00:45,970 Speaker 1: Rashawn McDonald. I created it in 2017 as an idea 13 00:00:46,450 --> 00:00:50,750 Speaker 1: to be able to marry information that successful entrepreneurs in 14 00:00:50,770 --> 00:00:54,470 Speaker 1: the working platforms can share their success stories or their 15 00:00:54,490 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: stories of optimism, their stories of the moments when they 16 00:00:58,140 --> 00:00:59,700 Speaker 1: think it was all going to go bad and how 17 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:02,070 Speaker 1: they turned it right at the ship. And that's what 18 00:01:02,110 --> 00:01:04,530 Speaker 1: Money Making Conversations Masterclass is. I do have celebrities who 19 00:01:04,550 --> 00:01:07,230 Speaker 1: come on the show who have an entrepreneurial eye and 20 00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:09,530 Speaker 1: they can share their stories because we're all in the 21 00:01:09,569 --> 00:01:13,780 Speaker 1: same boat. That's to be successful, to employ people, pay 22 00:01:13,819 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: our taxes on time, and also create generational wealth. That 23 00:01:17,420 --> 00:01:20,899 Speaker 1: is what Money Making Conversations Masterclass is all about. The 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,369 Speaker 1: interviews and information that this show provides really is for everyone. 25 00:01:24,770 --> 00:01:27,870 Speaker 1: It's time to stop reading other people's success stories and 26 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:29,890 Speaker 1: start living your own. Now, if you want to be 27 00:01:29,910 --> 00:01:36,900 Speaker 1: a guest on my show, please visit MoneyMakingConversations.com. That's MoneyMakingConversations.com 28 00:01:37,260 --> 00:01:40,459 Speaker 1: and click the Be A Guest button. You submit the information, 29 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,460 Speaker 1: who you are, everything in the background, and then I 30 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:46,300 Speaker 1: contact you if you submit all the right information to 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,390 Speaker 1: be a guest on my show. Now, let's get this 32 00:01:48,410 --> 00:01:51,750 Speaker 1: show rolling. It's a different show because we're talking about 33 00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:55,210 Speaker 1: The world of people who are impacted by what's going 34 00:01:55,330 --> 00:01:58,890 Speaker 1: on and sometimes can't control their own narrative. There are organizations, 35 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: there are businesses out there that are helping people right 36 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: to ship. My guest on the show today makes it 37 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: easier for people with opioid use disorder, that's OUD, to 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,460 Speaker 1: commit to their methadone treatment program. He has witnessed the 39 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:17,340 Speaker 1: devastating impact of opioid use disorder on individuals, families, and 40 00:02:17,380 --> 00:02:21,550 Speaker 1: their communities. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Dr. 41 00:02:21,590 --> 00:02:23,169 Speaker 1: Michael Giles. How you doing, sir? 42 00:02:24,450 --> 00:02:26,570 Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, Rashawn. I know. 43 00:02:26,889 --> 00:02:30,190 Speaker 1: Prior to the interview, I called Michael because of the 44 00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:32,010 Speaker 1: serious nature. And I don't want people to turn off 45 00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: because it's serious or it's dark. No, this is life. 46 00:02:34,740 --> 00:02:38,060 Speaker 1: This is about people who are trying to get on 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,780 Speaker 1: with their lives that have been impacted by a drug 48 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: that's been devastating this country for a number of years now. 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,620 Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of news stories out there where 50 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:50,389 Speaker 1: larger companies have been sued and judgments have been won 51 00:02:50,430 --> 00:02:54,170 Speaker 1: against them and communities, not just individuals, but communities and 52 00:02:54,590 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: have been destroyed by this drug, opioid drug. Well, people 53 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: want to get on with their life. And sometimes this 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: drug won't allow all the treatment technique that's being offered 55 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: to them won't allow them to get on with their lives. 56 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:11,810 Speaker 1: So I invited Michael on the show to talk about it. 57 00:03:11,810 --> 00:03:13,250 Speaker 1: Give us a little background about you before we get 58 00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:13,989 Speaker 1: started there, Michael. 59 00:03:15,410 --> 00:03:19,530 Speaker 3: Sure. So I'm a psychiatrist and I started a company 60 00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:22,630 Speaker 3: called Sonara Health. Mm hmm. during the last year of 61 00:03:22,690 --> 00:03:26,910 Speaker 3: my psychiatry training, based on my experience working in an 62 00:03:27,070 --> 00:03:30,290 Speaker 3: opioid treatment program, which is the only facility in the 63 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:33,830 Speaker 3: United States where you can receive methadone. So there's about 64 00:03:33,830 --> 00:03:38,050 Speaker 3: 2,000 of these OTPs across the United States, and the 65 00:03:38,110 --> 00:03:40,670 Speaker 3: standard of care is for patients to drive to this 66 00:03:40,750 --> 00:03:45,089 Speaker 3: clinic every day for an initial period of time, wait 67 00:03:45,110 --> 00:03:47,930 Speaker 3: in line, and then take a dose of the medication 68 00:03:47,970 --> 00:03:52,210 Speaker 3: methadone in front of a care provider. Right. And this 69 00:03:52,310 --> 00:03:56,809 Speaker 3: requirement for daily visits is really strenuous for patients who 70 00:03:56,830 --> 00:04:01,510 Speaker 3: have jobs or are in education or have kids to 71 00:04:01,570 --> 00:04:05,030 Speaker 3: take care of. And, you know, I would, you know, 72 00:04:05,050 --> 00:04:06,750 Speaker 3: when I was on this rotation, I would advocate to 73 00:04:06,790 --> 00:04:09,270 Speaker 3: these patients to get take-home methadone so they wouldn't have 74 00:04:09,290 --> 00:04:11,770 Speaker 3: to come in every day. And the provider often didn't 75 00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: trust the patient. It seemed like if someone built a 76 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:19,700 Speaker 3: tool that gave patients the opportunity to demonstrate how they're 77 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:22,860 Speaker 3: using the medication at home that these patients could then 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 3: get take-home methadone instead of having to come into the 79 00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:29,940 Speaker 3: clinic every day. And so that's exactly what our application 80 00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:33,250 Speaker 3: was designed to do. We launched at the end. 81 00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:35,830 Speaker 1: Before we get too far into the whole process, because 82 00:04:36,089 --> 00:04:37,990 Speaker 1: there are steps to that. Like you always say, the 83 00:04:38,010 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: doctor didn't trust the patient. Now, we've got to talk 84 00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: about the idea of you creating this concept and then 85 00:04:44,740 --> 00:04:48,420 Speaker 1: implementing the concept, I guess, a beta period, and then 86 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: being able to implement it for doctors to trust you. 87 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,620 Speaker 1: So when did you first implement the concept as being 88 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,500 Speaker 1: a possibility? Because like you said, you've seen this drug 89 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: devastate the community. You've seen this drug and the way 90 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:03,850 Speaker 1: it was being, the methadone was being applied. They had 91 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:05,890 Speaker 1: to come up here every day, like you said, disrupt 92 00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:07,970 Speaker 1: their life. When did this idea pop in your head? 93 00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:14,530 Speaker 3: It happened during my residency. I was training. I was 94 00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: just talking to the attending physicians, like the boss doctor, 95 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 3: and I was asking them, like, you know, what would 96 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,260 Speaker 3: it take for these patients to, like, get some take-home methadone? And, 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: you know, the attending physician, the response would be, if 98 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: I understood how they were using the medication, I'd be 99 00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 3: more comfortable giving them, you know, multiple doses so they 100 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:36,219 Speaker 3: don't have to come in every day. Mm-hmm. kind of 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,860 Speaker 3: the business concept was designed to solve a specific problem. Right. 102 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,450 Speaker 3: And it's a problem of patient provider trust. That's really 103 00:05:44,470 --> 00:05:45,530 Speaker 3: what our product does. 104 00:05:46,529 --> 00:05:48,589 Speaker 1: So when you talk about this, you know, because it's 105 00:05:48,630 --> 00:05:51,230 Speaker 1: all about trust, because like I said, the doctors see 106 00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:56,450 Speaker 1: there is a remedy, but they have no solution. And 107 00:05:56,510 --> 00:05:59,659 Speaker 1: so when you started sitting down, did you sit down 108 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: with family members, sit down with some friends, sit down 109 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:06,140 Speaker 1: with investors to start building this concept out? And because 110 00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:09,130 Speaker 1: everything is a great concept, but it also has to be, 111 00:06:09,550 --> 00:06:11,490 Speaker 1: as they say, profitable. One has to be able to 112 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:14,170 Speaker 1: make money for it to continue. So break down the 113 00:06:14,190 --> 00:06:17,210 Speaker 1: whole process of, you know, when you started, okay, this 114 00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: is reality. You know, this can actually happen. Did you 115 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,100 Speaker 1: go to someone in the medical field for advice? What 116 00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: did you do? 117 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: It's interesting. It was a lot of networking. Right. Yeah. 118 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 3: The question you're asking is really important. Like, how do 119 00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: I know? that this is a problem that like is 120 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: worth solving. Like, are there people who actually use the product? 121 00:06:41,740 --> 00:06:45,580 Speaker 3: And so I actually reached out to the private equity 122 00:06:45,620 --> 00:06:49,530 Speaker 3: group that owned, um, one of the largest OTPs in 123 00:06:49,550 --> 00:06:54,369 Speaker 3: the United States. And I, I just kind of shared 124 00:06:54,410 --> 00:06:57,270 Speaker 3: my presentation on like what my vision for our product 125 00:06:57,310 --> 00:07:00,170 Speaker 3: would be. And this private equity group was actually like 126 00:07:00,190 --> 00:07:02,590 Speaker 3: really interested. And so they introduced me to the CEO, 127 00:07:03,250 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: of one of these large opioid treatment program companies. And, 128 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 3: you know, I think the weight of that introduction coming 129 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,340 Speaker 3: from the private equity group, let them take what I 130 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,620 Speaker 3: was saying more seriously. And the fact that I was 131 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,670 Speaker 3: maybe positioned also helped add some credibility. And so, yeah, 132 00:07:19,730 --> 00:07:23,150 Speaker 3: when I shared kind of the concept with the executive 133 00:07:23,190 --> 00:07:27,170 Speaker 3: leadership at this opioid treatment program, they were hesitant, but 134 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:30,660 Speaker 3: overall like pretty supportive. And they said, yeah, we would 135 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,260 Speaker 3: love to test something like this out. So, yeah. 136 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:37,250 Speaker 1: So, as we all know, the word in the test 137 00:07:37,270 --> 00:07:39,570 Speaker 1: period is called the beta period. When you, you know, 138 00:07:39,610 --> 00:07:41,570 Speaker 1: you go out there, you're making sure there are no 139 00:07:41,610 --> 00:07:45,250 Speaker 1: bugs in the process and there are no bad apples 140 00:07:45,610 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: in the process. Now, when you started choosing, you know, 141 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: potential patients for this process, and explain everybody the process 142 00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: right now. 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,020 Speaker 3: Oh, so... Before we launched the full product, we did 144 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:06,630 Speaker 3: have kind of like a test version. And we got 145 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:11,670 Speaker 3: funding from the National Institute of Health to pilot our 146 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:15,610 Speaker 3: test version. And one of the pilot sites, like the 147 00:08:15,650 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: very first site, was in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco. 148 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:19,780 Speaker 2: Okay. 149 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:23,420 Speaker 3: And that's kind of like ground zero. Like, if you 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: really want to find out if your application works, go, like, 151 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: you know, to help opioid use disorder, test it out there. Wow. 152 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: Why do you say that? I'm just asking. Is it 153 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,650 Speaker 1: because of opioid or because it's Silicon Valley with apps 154 00:08:37,730 --> 00:08:40,329 Speaker 1: and everything's out there and technology is at such a 155 00:08:40,390 --> 00:08:40,970 Speaker 1: high level? 156 00:08:41,950 --> 00:08:45,290 Speaker 3: Yeah, because the first thing, the burden of, like, opioid 157 00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:49,890 Speaker 3: use disorder is very high, specifically, like, in San Francisco area. 158 00:08:50,290 --> 00:08:54,290 Speaker 3: but even more so like in the Tenderloin district, um, 159 00:08:55,309 --> 00:08:58,150 Speaker 3: you know, like walking to the clinic from the subway, 160 00:08:58,190 --> 00:09:01,770 Speaker 3: you will see people using drugs outside the clinic. You 161 00:09:01,809 --> 00:09:04,410 Speaker 3: will see people who are in a state of overdose. 162 00:09:05,010 --> 00:09:08,170 Speaker 3: It's like, it's pretty terrifying. And I was like, man, 163 00:09:08,210 --> 00:09:11,410 Speaker 3: why are we launching here? This is like, like if 164 00:09:11,650 --> 00:09:14,450 Speaker 3: this was like, these patients seem so unstable, like how 165 00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:17,610 Speaker 3: are they going to use this application? And I learned 166 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:22,390 Speaker 3: something then because these patients shattered my expectations. All they 167 00:09:22,429 --> 00:09:24,850 Speaker 3: needed was just a little bit of something to prove themselves. 168 00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: And so that's the story. 169 00:09:27,940 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, Dr. Giles, because I'm 170 00:09:29,780 --> 00:09:34,620 Speaker 1: going to tell you something. From a stereotype, San Francisco 171 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't be the place I would think you would find 172 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:39,830 Speaker 1: in high concentration because I'm thinking high concentration San Francisco 173 00:09:39,950 --> 00:09:44,180 Speaker 1: or Liberal, very highly educated community. These are the things 174 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:47,620 Speaker 1: that run through my mind. I'm thinking maybe West Virginia. 175 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:52,130 Speaker 1: I'm thinking maybe Kentucky. I'm thinking rural areas will probably 176 00:09:52,150 --> 00:09:54,780 Speaker 1: be high volume usage area. And you telling me, no, Rashaun, 177 00:09:55,340 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: San Francisco. Why do I have this stereotype about people 178 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,220 Speaker 1: who use opioids in my head? 179 00:10:03,780 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 3: Well, the areas you mentioned are kind of where the 180 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,150 Speaker 3: epidemic started. So I don't know, maybe there's like a 181 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:17,470 Speaker 3: founder's effect there, but it's spread all across the United 182 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:20,699 Speaker 3: States and, And it's, you know, it is terrible in 183 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,670 Speaker 3: the locations you mentioned, but it's also terrible in other 184 00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:27,290 Speaker 3: locations people may not always think of. And so, you know, 185 00:10:27,309 --> 00:10:31,069 Speaker 3: you have San Francisco, certain parts of it, and it's 186 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:38,300 Speaker 3: growing in San Francisco. And you have, like, Seattle. So, yeah, 187 00:10:39,059 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: it's growing quicker than it's, like, being improved. 188 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting. You know, when I was 189 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: in high school, I was– I did a study on 190 00:10:48,380 --> 00:10:53,950 Speaker 1: drug addicted babies, babies who moms were addicted to drugs 191 00:10:53,970 --> 00:10:56,330 Speaker 1: and they came out, they were addicted to drugs. So 192 00:10:57,390 --> 00:10:59,489 Speaker 1: that is, you know, that was one of the most 193 00:10:59,610 --> 00:11:03,620 Speaker 1: emotional moments in my young life to see that I'm helpless. 194 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,179 Speaker 1: I can't do anything about this, you know, you know, 195 00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: because the problem started before the child was even born. 196 00:11:09,179 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: And so and then you look at this side of 197 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:15,349 Speaker 1: the table. Can you tell me what exactly is opioids? 198 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, so an opioid is, you know, it's a class 199 00:11:22,620 --> 00:11:26,940 Speaker 3: of chemicals naturally occurring in a flower called like the 200 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 3: opium poppy. And it's been used for hundreds of years 201 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,940 Speaker 3: for pain control. But it also is like very addictive. 202 00:11:36,940 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: And like the modern forms of kind of the opioid 203 00:11:40,179 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 3: compound have been refined to the point where they bind 204 00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:49,490 Speaker 3: to the like, like pain control and like pleasure receptor 205 00:11:49,510 --> 00:11:54,229 Speaker 3: of the brain very, very like strongly. And so, um, 206 00:11:55,330 --> 00:11:59,429 Speaker 3: when patients stop taking the opioids, which, you know, now 207 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 3: are often required illicitly and have like fentanyl and super 208 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:06,300 Speaker 3: dangerous things to get, when they stop taking it, they 209 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,179 Speaker 3: go into withdrawal and to have a pain, very painful, uh, 210 00:12:10,260 --> 00:12:12,780 Speaker 3: flu like illness, but way worse than the flu, you know, 211 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,890 Speaker 3: that lasts days usually. Um, And so, yeah, that compels 212 00:12:17,929 --> 00:12:20,210 Speaker 3: them to keep using the opioids because they don't want 213 00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:23,140 Speaker 3: to go through that experience. And then, you know, as 214 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,700 Speaker 3: our brain gets used to the opioid, they'll require higher 215 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: and higher doses. And eventually they'll require such a high 216 00:12:30,059 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 3: dose that they'll overdose, potentially fatal overdose. 217 00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:38,849 Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned the drug in there, fentanyl, because I've 218 00:12:38,890 --> 00:12:42,950 Speaker 1: heard that drug tied to opioid. Please explain to my 219 00:12:43,050 --> 00:12:46,270 Speaker 1: audience and to me. Why does the word fentanyl pop 220 00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:47,990 Speaker 1: up a lot when you hear opioid use? 221 00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:54,230 Speaker 3: Fentanyl is driving, by and large, the vast majority of 222 00:12:54,370 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: deaths related to drug use currently in the United States. 223 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:05,620 Speaker 3: Old-fashioned opioids like heroin are actually pretty rare now. Fentanyl 224 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:12,810 Speaker 3: is very easy to produce in home laboratories and And 225 00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:15,750 Speaker 3: you only need like a few grains of sand of it, 226 00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:20,530 Speaker 3: like in the thing you're selling in order to, you know, 227 00:13:20,929 --> 00:13:25,190 Speaker 3: satisfy the person who's trying to buy these opioids. And 228 00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:27,630 Speaker 3: if you take one or two extra grains of sand 229 00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:29,590 Speaker 3: of fentanyl, you could potentially die. 230 00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:31,870 Speaker 1: Is that toxic? 231 00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:36,340 Speaker 3: Is that toxic? Yes. It's like the dose is micrograms 232 00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:42,490 Speaker 3: versus like milligrams for like something like morphine. Yeah. 233 00:13:42,510 --> 00:13:46,350 Speaker 1: Thousands of times. First of all, you're doing a great cause. 234 00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:51,310 Speaker 1: But also, as an entrepreneur, this is a show about entrepreneurship. 235 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: This is a show about being able to take an 236 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,100 Speaker 1: idea and turn it into a concept and then validate 237 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,420 Speaker 1: that by turning it into a business model. Now, with 238 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: that being a business model, because we want to continue 239 00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:04,500 Speaker 1: to talk about this because I want to talk about 240 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,089 Speaker 1: the use and You know, the care and all that process. 241 00:14:08,130 --> 00:14:11,870 Speaker 1: But it just always amazes me when individuals and I 242 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: have to use the word visionary when I talk to you, 243 00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:15,750 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't have thought about this. That's why I 244 00:14:15,790 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: mentioned to you about my association with drug addicted babies 245 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: when I was a senior in high school. So I've 246 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,850 Speaker 1: always had this this this emotional connection. caring side of me, 247 00:14:28,330 --> 00:14:30,210 Speaker 1: how can we stop this? How can we fix this? Now, 248 00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:32,910 Speaker 1: I know my situation is different than yours because yours 249 00:14:32,980 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: is about, you know, opioid use disorder care, methadone. They 250 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,140 Speaker 1: have a drug out there that can assist them in 251 00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:44,210 Speaker 1: living a normal life. It's about how they are receiving it. 252 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: And you're stopping that point of having to come into 253 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:51,340 Speaker 1: an office. And I'm sure the doctors like that because 254 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: that doesn't slow them down. The nurses like that doesn't 255 00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:54,180 Speaker 1: slow them down as. 256 00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: Well, correct? 257 00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:54,820 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 258 00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:01,260 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. So there's reduced clinic foot traffic when there's 259 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,940 Speaker 3: a lot of patients on Sonara. And then you have 260 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,110 Speaker 3: improved patient retention. And so like from a revenue perspective 261 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:11,210 Speaker 3: for our customers, the longer a patient is in treatment, 262 00:15:11,250 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 3: the more revenue the customer makes. So by reducing dropout, 263 00:15:15,620 --> 00:15:18,500 Speaker 3: we kind of help customers keep their revenue up. 264 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: Cool. I just want to go to break right quick. Dr. Giles, 265 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: if anyone wants to call in, because I know the 266 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,580 Speaker 1: nature of this may have some questions, may have some 267 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,780 Speaker 1: family members that you may want to understand how they 268 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: can gain use of this. We're going to find out 269 00:15:32,980 --> 00:15:35,580 Speaker 1: exactly the different locations that this is available, how it 270 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,190 Speaker 1: can be available as a virtual process. So and that 271 00:15:39,270 --> 00:15:41,510 Speaker 1: has to be understood as well. But we return more 272 00:15:41,530 --> 00:15:44,990 Speaker 1: with Money Making Conversations Masterclass. with Dr. Michael Giles and 273 00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:48,830 Speaker 1: his process of being able to help people with opioid 274 00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:50,090 Speaker 1: use disorder. 275 00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 4: Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more 276 00:15:54,300 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 4: Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making 277 00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 4: Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashawn McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass 278 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 4: continues online at MoneyMakingConversations.com and follow Money Making Conversations Masterclass 279 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 4: on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. 280 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:26,390 Speaker 1: My guest is Dr. Michael Giles. He's invented, created a 281 00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:30,110 Speaker 1: methadone treatment program that's virtual, which allows individuals who are 282 00:16:30,170 --> 00:16:32,750 Speaker 1: going through these programs not having to go into a 283 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:35,850 Speaker 1: doctor's office, but It's an honor system. When they take 284 00:16:35,890 --> 00:16:38,890 Speaker 1: the drug, they videotape themselves, and it gets logged in. 285 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:43,510 Speaker 1: Am I shorthanding it correctly there, Dr. Giles? 286 00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, without Sonara, it's an honor system. So without Sonara, 287 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,500 Speaker 3: you get take-homes, and the provider doesn't really know if 288 00:16:51,660 --> 00:16:53,460 Speaker 3: you're taking them or not. 289 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:53,980 Speaker 2: Right. 290 00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:57,740 Speaker 3: But with Sonara, you know for sure whether the patient's 291 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:58,620 Speaker 3: taking their medication. 292 00:16:59,060 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 4: Cool. 293 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,470 Speaker 1: Now, how does Sonara, that's the name of the clinic. 294 00:17:02,490 --> 00:17:04,290 Speaker 1: Did I say clinic? Sonara Health Clinic? 295 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:07,030 Speaker 3: Our application. 296 00:17:07,210 --> 00:17:10,290 Speaker 1: Okay, Sonara Health Clinic. How do they ensure the security 297 00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:13,169 Speaker 1: and privacy of patient data and what measures are in 298 00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:16,129 Speaker 1: place to comply with these regulatory requirements? Because that's the 299 00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:17,130 Speaker 1: number one fear I would have. 300 00:17:17,670 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: Yes. 301 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: I always read about somebody holding somebody ransom or breaking into. 302 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: How are you protecting a patient's data? 303 00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 3: Yes, so we have a healthcare contract with Google's healthcare platform. So, 304 00:17:32,980 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 3: you know, in order for that platform to be legal, 305 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:40,260 Speaker 3: like Google can't access that data. I can't access that data. 306 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: Only the treatment team, like technical support team at Sonara 307 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,649 Speaker 3: and the patient have access to that data. And that 308 00:17:47,670 --> 00:17:51,609 Speaker 3: data is never used for ads or any other commercial purposes. 309 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:54,810 Speaker 3: It's exclusively for treatment planning. 310 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,419 Speaker 1: That's important to know that your information is suddenly not 311 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,790 Speaker 1: appearing on some mailing list and they send you concert 312 00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:05,230 Speaker 1: tickets and pizza coupons and things like that. This stuff 313 00:18:05,290 --> 00:18:08,470 Speaker 1: is locked in. It is used strictly for their patient 314 00:18:08,530 --> 00:18:11,750 Speaker 1: care and not distributed. Like you said, Google doesn't gain access. 315 00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:14,790 Speaker 1: You don't gain any personal access to this. No one 316 00:18:14,830 --> 00:18:17,050 Speaker 1: gains access to this. This is strictly for the health 317 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:20,379 Speaker 1: care patient, the patient's knowledge and their format, correct? 318 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 3: Exactly. The patient and the provider. 319 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,389 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this a little earlier. You said, 320 00:18:25,470 --> 00:18:29,450 Speaker 1: you know, basically the doctors feel very comfortable and happy 321 00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:33,290 Speaker 1: about this process in our health system. And then the patients, 322 00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:37,590 Speaker 1: they're the key. How do you recruit your patients? How 323 00:18:37,609 --> 00:18:41,690 Speaker 1: do they find out about your health system? And how 324 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:42,669 Speaker 1: do they respond to it? 325 00:18:44,650 --> 00:18:48,550 Speaker 3: Oh, man, the patients respond so well because, you know, 326 00:18:48,609 --> 00:18:52,420 Speaker 3: the typical patient story is, you know, I've been going 327 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: to the clinic for months to years and I only 328 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: have two or three take-home doses a week. And then 329 00:18:57,619 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: all of a sudden I get put on Sonara and 330 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,010 Speaker 3: I have, you know, six or 13 take-home doses. And 331 00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:06,450 Speaker 3: so like, you know, as a patient, I can now 332 00:19:06,790 --> 00:19:10,070 Speaker 3: look for an apartment or get a job. It's pretty life-changing. 333 00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:14,300 Speaker 3: And in places like, you know, Alaska where the patient 334 00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: is driving two hours one way to the clinic and 335 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 3: I mean, it's literally like the most kind of freedom 336 00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:24,510 Speaker 3: enhancing moment that these patients have had in a long time. 337 00:19:25,369 --> 00:19:27,470 Speaker 3: So patients love it. And in terms of like how 338 00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:31,469 Speaker 3: we choose which patients get put on it. So when 339 00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:35,250 Speaker 3: we're implementing at a clinic, we work with the clinical 340 00:19:35,310 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 3: team there to kind of draft new clinical criteria for 341 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:45,250 Speaker 3: who should be given Sonara and you know, how quickly 342 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 3: they should be getting take-homes. And on average, you know, 343 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,659 Speaker 3: patients on Sonara with the schedules that we created at 344 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,459 Speaker 3: these clinics have twice the number of take-homes compared to 345 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: a patient who's been on Sonara, or sorry, who hasn't 346 00:19:58,300 --> 00:19:58,980 Speaker 3: been on Sonara. 347 00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: Sonara, the name. How did you come up with the 348 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,910 Speaker 1: name and why tied to this particular process? Sonara. 349 00:20:07,930 --> 00:20:15,100 Speaker 3: I mean, we were... brainstorming names and someone in our company, 350 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:19,290 Speaker 3: you know, who speaks Spanish said the word to dream, 351 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:22,590 Speaker 3: like the future tense to dream is the word Sonata. 352 00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:26,090 Speaker 3: And I thought that was a really cool name. So, 353 00:20:26,109 --> 00:20:28,030 Speaker 3: you know, we want patients to dream of like a 354 00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: future where they have freedom. So it just seemed very fitting. 355 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: It's powerful. It's not only fitting, but it's powerful because, 356 00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:38,219 Speaker 1: you know, because this is the educational part to me. 357 00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:44,370 Speaker 1: Because you're going through life and somehow opioid falls into 358 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:48,490 Speaker 1: your life and you call it opioid use disorder, OUD. 359 00:20:49,530 --> 00:20:53,750 Speaker 1: You commit to a methadone treatment program. Do you ever 360 00:20:53,810 --> 00:20:54,950 Speaker 1: get off the program, Dr. 361 00:20:54,970 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: Giles? Yeah, that's what the patient's goals are. So I 362 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: wish we were at a point where that was like 363 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,580 Speaker 3: the focus. But right now, like most patients drop out 364 00:21:07,619 --> 00:21:11,740 Speaker 3: of treatment within the first 60 days. And, you know, 365 00:21:12,130 --> 00:21:14,609 Speaker 3: as soon as that happens, the risk of like having 366 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:20,010 Speaker 3: a fatal overdose increases by nearly 300%. And so, you know, 367 00:21:20,030 --> 00:21:23,790 Speaker 3: the minimum amount of treatment time for the American Society 368 00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:26,459 Speaker 3: of Addiction Medicine is one year. So when we can 369 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: start getting most patients to one year, I really want 370 00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 3: to start thinking about answering the question you mentioned, like 371 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,090 Speaker 3: how do we taper patients off and, you know, eventually 372 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,850 Speaker 3: they don't need anything. But until we can solve this 373 00:21:40,890 --> 00:21:44,970 Speaker 3: kind of crisis in the first 60 days, we just 374 00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:47,230 Speaker 3: don't have the bandwidth to solve that other thing right now. 375 00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:52,690 Speaker 1: Wow. Because, you know, it's like... How do you get 376 00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:56,030 Speaker 1: your life back if it's still tied to a treatment program? 377 00:21:56,170 --> 00:21:58,929 Speaker 1: How do you gain confidence? How do you have a relationship? 378 00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: How do you do anything? How do you move on 379 00:22:02,619 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: with this treatment program? It seems like it's forever going on. Now, 380 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: it's always tied to anything. Just because there's a program 381 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:13,419 Speaker 1: out there, you have to have eligibility criteria tied to it. So, Nara, 382 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: what are the eligibility criteria? And also, again, this is 383 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,780 Speaker 1: a virtual process, and before you talk about eligibility criteria, 384 00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:21,850 Speaker 1: Tell them again how it works, Dr. 385 00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:27,619 Speaker 3: Giles. Yeah, so the way the application works is patients 386 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:30,580 Speaker 3: will get their take-home methadone. It'll have a special label 387 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,939 Speaker 3: on the bottle. And, you know, there's one dose per bottle, 388 00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:38,060 Speaker 3: and you just use one bottle per day. And so 389 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: you're at home with all these bottles, and, you know, 390 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,590 Speaker 3: you log into Synar.app, and you press the Take My 391 00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:46,630 Speaker 3: Dose button. And so then it'll ask you to scan 392 00:22:46,670 --> 00:22:50,310 Speaker 3: the QR code on the methadone bottle. Um, so yeah, 393 00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:53,350 Speaker 3: you'll scan it and then it'll, you know, we'll confirm 394 00:22:53,369 --> 00:22:55,570 Speaker 3: that that bottle has never been scanned or used before. 395 00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: And then it'll flip to the front facing camera and, 396 00:22:59,770 --> 00:23:02,310 Speaker 3: you know, we give the patient cell phone stands. And 397 00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: so the patient will put the cell phone on the 398 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:07,180 Speaker 3: cell phone stand and they'll open the bottle and take 399 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: the medication. Um, and so, you know, that whole process 400 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 3: takes about 72 seconds on average across the hundreds of 401 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:16,060 Speaker 3: thousands of doses we've recorded. 402 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:16,179 Speaker 4: Okay. 403 00:23:16,790 --> 00:23:19,470 Speaker 3: You compare that 72 seconds to hours of your day 404 00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:23,070 Speaker 3: if you're not using Sonara when you're having to go 405 00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:23,550 Speaker 3: to the clinic. 406 00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:27,170 Speaker 1: That's the process. So how does one, as a patient, 407 00:23:27,790 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: qualify or what is the criteria to qualify for the 408 00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: use of this type of Sonara health solution? 409 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,899 Speaker 3: Now, that is a much more complicated question, unfortunately. So, like... 410 00:23:42,150 --> 00:23:46,429 Speaker 3: Methadone is probably the most regulated medication in the United States. 411 00:23:47,550 --> 00:23:51,650 Speaker 3: And every state has their own rules for how methadone 412 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 3: can be prescribed. So it really will vary from state 413 00:23:56,619 --> 00:23:59,500 Speaker 3: to state. And then on top of that, every clinic 414 00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:02,419 Speaker 3: has their own culture. And, you know, our job at 415 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,710 Speaker 3: SNAR is to try to make clinics have the most 416 00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: kind of patient-centered culture possible. But the best answer to 417 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 3: that question is really going to depend on where the 418 00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,770 Speaker 3: patients live. But you have some common factors, though, like 419 00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:18,010 Speaker 3: you're on a stable dose of methadone, so you're not 420 00:24:18,130 --> 00:24:20,850 Speaker 3: needing to go up and down all the time in 421 00:24:20,869 --> 00:24:25,210 Speaker 3: your dose. Wow. You know, attendance hasn't been too much 422 00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:28,650 Speaker 3: of an issue. Conversely, right, if attendance is an issue, 423 00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:29,730 Speaker 3: maybe you need Sonara. 424 00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:30,590 Speaker 1: Right. 425 00:24:30,869 --> 00:24:34,020 Speaker 3: So it really depends on kind of the clinics. 426 00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:36,980 Speaker 1: Well, you know, the thing about you're based in Houston, Texas, correct? 427 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:38,510 Speaker 3: Dallas. 428 00:24:38,850 --> 00:24:41,710 Speaker 1: Dallas, Texas. You're based in Dallas, Texas. I apologize. Sonara 429 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:45,210 Speaker 1: Health Solutions. And now, what's the future? You know, you 430 00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:49,150 Speaker 1: got it rolling. We know this is a business. Your 431 00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:54,340 Speaker 1: entrepreneurship has kicked in, but it's also helping people get 432 00:24:54,380 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: their lives back. What is in product development or outreach program? 433 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: What do you have? What's the next step for Sonara 434 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:01,980 Speaker 1: Health Solutions? 435 00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:07,390 Speaker 3: Yeah, so... Right now, our application is really centered on 436 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,859 Speaker 3: kind of this virtual dosing window experience, you know, recreating 437 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,060 Speaker 3: the in-person dosing, but like more conveniently from your cell 438 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,340 Speaker 3: phone at your home. We want to expand that to 439 00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:23,180 Speaker 3: be more broadly just patient engagement, specifically to kind of 440 00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:25,710 Speaker 3: answer one of the questions you asked earlier, like how 441 00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:28,070 Speaker 3: does the patient come off the system, right? So we 442 00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:30,450 Speaker 3: don't want the patient's tech to record every day if 443 00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:34,820 Speaker 3: they're clinically stable. It's intrusive and not nice, right? And 444 00:25:34,859 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: so we'll just have kind of more generally useful patient 445 00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:45,420 Speaker 3: engagement tools like messaging, counseling sessions, virtual intakes, things like that. 446 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 3: So that's kind of the future of our product. 447 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,699 Speaker 1: Well, you know something, Dr. Giles, I'm proud of you, 448 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:56,619 Speaker 1: my man. You know, I say that because not many people, 449 00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:59,389 Speaker 1: you know, there are people out there making money off 450 00:25:59,450 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: of cars and making money off of, hamburgers and businesses 451 00:26:04,140 --> 00:26:07,050 Speaker 1: set up. And these are fantastic. There are not many 452 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:10,070 Speaker 1: businesses that are set up to save people's lives and 453 00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:14,270 Speaker 1: change communities. And that's what you're doing. You know, if 454 00:26:14,330 --> 00:26:16,429 Speaker 1: nobody's saying that to you, let me say that to 455 00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:19,340 Speaker 1: you because of the fact that I was in the 456 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: hospital for 30 days one time in my life and 457 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: they had a drug attached to me because I was 458 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: in so much pain. I would press a button. And 459 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,730 Speaker 1: now after a while, the drug will stop entering my system, 460 00:26:30,750 --> 00:26:33,210 Speaker 1: but I kept pressing that button. because they knew if 461 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:35,170 Speaker 1: I just kept pressing that button, I would become addicted 462 00:26:35,210 --> 00:26:37,780 Speaker 1: to that drug. So eventually I had to learn to 463 00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:40,179 Speaker 1: live with the pain, and eventually I got off of it. 464 00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: They weaned me off of that machine. So I know 465 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,179 Speaker 1: what addiction can feel like. I know the impact of 466 00:26:47,260 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: that machine not being managed correctly, how it could have 467 00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:54,830 Speaker 1: impacted my life today. But I brought you on this show. 468 00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:58,310 Speaker 1: You're a different type of entrepreneur I brought on this show, 469 00:26:58,330 --> 00:27:00,090 Speaker 1: but I thought it was necessary for people to hear 470 00:27:00,650 --> 00:27:04,109 Speaker 1: that there are many ways people out there being entrepreneurs, 471 00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:08,350 Speaker 1: changing people's lives, and being a positive force in the community. 472 00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:10,270 Speaker 1: And that's what you are, my brother. And I always 473 00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:13,790 Speaker 1: know I'm a fan. And as I always say in 474 00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:15,550 Speaker 1: my show, I close it out with the word keep winning. 475 00:27:15,570 --> 00:27:18,210 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you, my friend, keep winning. As 476 00:27:18,250 --> 00:27:20,429 Speaker 1: we close, is there any contact information you want to 477 00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:21,449 Speaker 1: share with my audience? 478 00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:29,810 Speaker 3: Yeah. If anyone's interested in Sinoff, feel free to email phil.com. 479 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,379 Speaker 3: P-H-I-L at sonarhealth.com and we will reach it back out 480 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,180 Speaker 3: to you. Cool. 481 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,899 Speaker 1: Thank you, my friend, for taking the time to come 482 00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: on Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Stay safe, okay? 483 00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:42,859 Speaker 3: You too. Thank you, Rashawn. 484 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,859 Speaker 1: This has been another edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass 485 00:27:47,030 --> 00:27:50,110 Speaker 1: hosted by me, Rashawn McDonald. Thank you to our guests 486 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,629 Speaker 1: on the show today and thank you, our listening audience. Now, 487 00:27:53,670 --> 00:27:55,550 Speaker 1: if you want to listen to any episode or want 488 00:27:55,570 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: to be a guest on the show, visit moneymakingconversations.com. Our 489 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: social media handle is Money Making Conversation. Join us next 490 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,700 Speaker 1: week and remember to always lead with your gifts. Keep winning.