WEBVTT - Twitter Earnings and Tech Hiring Freezes 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.560 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.840 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:26.640 Emily j I'm Emily checking San Francisco and this is 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.920 Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Twitter's tepid 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.280 results another blow to the company that's already fighting a 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.440 high profile legal battle with Elon Musk. We will talk 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.479 about what it tells us about the state of social media, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.000 plus more and more tech companies hitting the brakes on hiring. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.720 What does it signal about the future of the economy 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.400 and what does Silicon Valley look like when the dust 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:53.840 has settled. Polit School and finding the soulmate comes with 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.000 a cost, and inflation isn't helping. Singles are getting creative 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.360 as the dating economy suffers from picker shock. We'll dig 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.959 into trends in dating. All that in a moment, But 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.600 first Snap then Twitter dragging tech markets down, disappointing results 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.880 only fueling fears of a recession. I want to zoom 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.720 out and talk about what all these tech results so 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.160 far have told us about the state of the economy. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:18.800 For that, I want to bring in wed wish Managing 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.839 director Dan Eyes and economy CEO David Kirkpatrick. Look, let's 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.600 let's let's start with Twitter because we saw you know, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:32.959 miss miss on the top line, uh users inline? Dan, 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.959 is Twitter just treading water right now? I think Twitter 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.720 is basically training right now. Is odds are almost an 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.480 arbitrage on what's gonna happen in Delaware in terms of 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.360 eating with the must deal in terms of how that 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.800 plays out for me the a settlement or he ultimately 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.200 needs to buy Twitter based on Delaware court. But I 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.240 will tell you those metrics firmer than fear, and I 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.520 think it should, especially when you compare it as Ed 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.720 talked about the Snare app just absolute disaster, blaming everything 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.440 for the wind. I mean, Twitter holding it a bit 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.240 better than expected, but it is training right now on 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.360 what's happening in terms of October and the Delaware court case. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.760 And remember it was Snap, you know, coming out and 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.000 revising its forecast earlier this year that sort of kick 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.560 started this market meltdown. David, what's your take on what 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.600 we're seeing from Snap? Even Evan Spiegel himself saying he's 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.960 not happy with these results. Well, I think in the 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.760 digital advertising business, some companies are a lot better position 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.720 than others, and Snap is not at the center of 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.000 the industry. I think it is at risk, and it 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.679 showed that it's at risk of unusually strong reaction when 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.600 advertisers start to pull back. I don't think that's the 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.880 case for some of the bigger companies. UM. It is 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.600 interesting to me when you look at what's happening with Twitter. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:58.440 Um it's a company that probably has gained a lot 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.280 from the sheer publicity around the must efforts, and they 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.680 are gaining users. So I agree with that it's not 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.280 nearly as bad as we might have expected. So here's 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.960 the question, Dan, how much is what's happening with Snap 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.799 and what we just saw with Twitter signal about the 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.400 state of the online ad business? What does this actually 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:23.480 mean for Meta or Alphabet for example, Dan, And there's 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.600 obviously a big drum roll into next week I think 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.040 one most pivotal week or earnings for tech and then 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.119 by five six years. But look, Snap, even a good 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.639 ecomming Snap has had a lot of difficulty getting their 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.920 arms around their business continuum as viewer as a paper 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.760 airplane and a hurricane. I still believe when it comes 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.480 to YouTube in terms of Google and what we're gonna 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.520 see even pinterest in others. I think digital ad swelling, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.760 but I think media holding up a bit better than feared. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.240 But that's why next year to Miki, especially when it 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.920 comes to meta streets baking in a lot of bad news. 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.320 But I just continue to not use snap as the 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.480 best barometer who it's happened the industry. That said, there's 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.600 a lot of talk now about whether the social media 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.440 business model is sputtering, is on the verge of failing. 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.160 I mean, David, we're seeing Facebook, you know, pivot entirely 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.200 to a whole new future with meta, in part because 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.320 I'm sure because of some of the weaknesses that they 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.440 see internally. I mean, do you think this is some 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.919 sort of what we've seen so far, whether it's just 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:28.840 the last couple of weeks or the last you know, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.040 couple of quarters, a sort of indictment on the business 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.839 model of social media. No, I don't. In fact, I 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.800 think the pivot to meta in the metaverse at what 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.840 used to be called Facebook really has a lot of 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.680 other causes, and a lot of them have to do 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.599 with reputational management. Um, I don't think that social media 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.960 industry is at risk of failing in any fundamental way. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.440 I think the evolution is happening faster than some would 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:04.000 have expected, uh, particularly with TikTok's extraordinary billion global user arise. Um. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.520 The the incumbents aren't really prepared. They aren't a sleet 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.599 footed now, especially that as they're so big, particularly in 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.560 the case of Facebook, uh and Google to a lesser extent. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.200 I think Google is the best position company of all 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.039 of these film myself. So you think Google has the 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.760 biggest upside in the tech sector, Why, Well, it's it's 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:28.279 not that it has. It's just that it's embeddedness in 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.480 the global economy, not the tech economy, just in the 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:36.000 global economy is so thorough, so immovable. This is not 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:40.279 true for the businesses of of meta Facebook, except for 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.120 possibly WhatsApp, which is a business that really does have 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.720 a almost impregnable global position. Um. But the Google services, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.920 many of them are just inconceivable for people to live without. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.240 And I think that is a huge defense mechanism for them. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:01.480 They've put themselves in a fantastic position over decade. It's 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:07.920 a building incredibly well designed and useful businesses. Dan, what 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:12.800 tech company do you think has the biggest upside right now? Well, First, 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.760 I agree with David on on the Google side going 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.120 into next week, But to me, it's that company and 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.880 Cooper Tina, it's Apple because I think that's one it's 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.080 an underestimated demand cycle still even with a swirling macro 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.279 in terms of iPhone fourteen, you got a quarter of 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.040 the base by two not upgrade three and a half years. 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.520 That services business rocket Gibralton. I think that's going to 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.760 come through next week, and I think some of the 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.120 parts the Apples still a SOAKA is the two in 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.840 front of it. That continues to be our top technique. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.920 But Dan, even Apple is cutting back on hiring, cutting 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.920 back on costs, cutting back on spending for various divisions. 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.839 What does that tell you? Look, I think that they're 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.840 being proven. You're seen that across the valley from Microsoft 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.440 to Amazon to other But but this is more prudence 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.280 rather than what I sort of view is just a 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.960 massive deceleration to tap into business. And I think there's 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.480 also other areas that they're looking to spend on, and 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.200 it comes down to what's baked into the stocks. I 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.000 think that's a theme that we saw a play out 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.960 with Netflix with Tesla, and I think next week I view, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.240 this is sort of better than fear in terms of 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.880 how it's going to play on Apple. I continue putting 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.440 Astrick around that front and center, along with Microsoft being 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:33.600 our court cloud name. David, would you say you're expecting 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.960 better than feared results next week? I think it's hard 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.200 to predict what's going to happen next week. But one 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.360 thing that I would say it was on a Bloomberg 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:48.320 article this week that I read that recession is almost 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.360 inevitable if it hasn't started already. So any of these 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.960 companies that were not preparing themselves by battman down the 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.920 hatches would be pretty poorly managed. I do agree. Apple 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.640 has just done another job, sort of like Google in 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.600 its own unique way of building businesses that just can't 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.760 be stopped. So I doubt if they would be slowed 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.320 much by even the beginnings of a recession. All Right, David, 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:16.960 you're gonna be sticking with us. We're actually gonna be 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.880 digging into this big hiring slow down. A bit later 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.040 in the show, David Kirkpatrick, thank you, and Dan ives 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.200 always good to have you here. Happy Friday. All right, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.000 coming up, one tech company after another slowing or stopping 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.360 hiring is it a sign of ominous economics. Guys ahead 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:48.040 talk about that and more. Next, this is Bloomberg. Big 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 tech is hitting the brakes on hiring, from Apple and 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.120 Microsoft to Netflix and Amazon. Silicon Valley is cutting back 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.520 on growth after years of bulking up, the entire industry 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.960 bracing for a potential recession. Alex Brin could cover social 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.160 media from Bloomberg News to economies. David Kirkpatrick still with us. So, look, 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.319 you've got Microsoft eliminating new job openings, Google slow and 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.079 hiring for the rest of the year, Amazon saying they 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.880 overstaffed during the pandemic, now they have to cut back. Alex, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.160 what are the biggest headlines you've seen in this raft 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.080 of news from tech companies that they're pulling back. Yeah, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.640 I'm saying a lot of pointing fingers at things like 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.360 rising inflation hitting costs UM and UH, and customers of 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.920 folks like Amazon who sell products pulling back spending. I'm 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.360 also seeing a lot of this idea of macroeconomic uncertainty 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.920 hitting companies that depend on advertising on their businesses. I 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.200 think a couple of really good examples, Emily, are in 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.800 the second quarter results we saw this week from the 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.880 likes of Twitter and from Snap. Both of them pointed 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:57.080 to this kind of macroeconomic uncertainty hitting their advertisers and 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.760 causing campaign budgets to go down. So that means that 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.360 the places that they depend on for revenue are getting smaller. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:10.000 That advertising pie is shrinking, Snap for um for that company, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.199 UM gave some hints into what a lot of these 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.000 companies might be thinking about. They said, Look, the pool 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.160 of money that we're making on the top line is 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.240 getting smaller, So we're actually looking across our business and 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.079 seeing where can we optimize um our bottom line, Where 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.000 can we optimize profitability, What other opportunities that were already 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.440 working on can we look just squeeze a bit more 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.400 money out of. And of course, like the rest of 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.240 the companies you mentioned at the top, they are being 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.360 really cautious when it comes to adding more headcount and 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.120 more costs and which investments they are picking because it 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:44.640 seems like right now we're in a bit of a 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.320 chopping environment. Emily, Indeed, it seems like we're getting memo 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.400 after memo from various ceo saying we're slowing down here, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.880 we're pulling back there. I want to warn you about this, David. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.120 You know some of these, you know, are companies that 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.280 haven't reported yet. They're gonna be reporting over the next 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.640 couple of weeks. But what do you think they're seeing 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:07.080 that the rest of us aren't yet. Well, I think 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:11.880 each one is a different story. I suspect that the 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:16.920 big companies aren't seeing terrible as spending results yet that 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.480 could easily happen in the near future. Uh. Certainly in 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.120 the case of Meta Facebook, there is a real possibility, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.600 as the Great Alex Kendrew has pointed out in his 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.640 newsletter this week that Facebook Meta really could have their 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:35.760 first year over year decline in revenues. Ever. Uh So 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.160 that would be really a big change for a company 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.160 that has had a historic run of just growth after 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.640 growth after growth for really well over a decade. Um. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.400 But but these the thing about Meta too that I 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.880 think people may forget is that the big advertisers are 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.960 not their primary source of revenue. There it's very important, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.000 but they're small business and media business are really where 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.080 their bread is buttered. And you know, at this point 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.200 in the economic shift, I suspect that smaller companies are 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.040 still willing to spend to try to stimulate business so 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.240 my guess is that metas results will not be shockingly bad, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.920 although they even themselves predicted growth are slowing. You know, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.080 we saw that user growth even started to drop in 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.600 certain key geography. So they have problems all over the place. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.120 They have an identity crisis. You know, they don't even 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.000 know who they are the you know, the metaverse. They're 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.760 predicting too soon. I'm going on. But uh, there's some 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.000 thoughts well, and there's an interesting question of how did 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.240 the social media company survivor recession when most of them 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.880 aren't around in two thousand eight and Facebook was only 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.080 four years old. I mean, I know that's when you 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.800 were writing your book, but you know, we don't really 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:54.000 have a lot of past experience to to to indicate 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.240 how social media will survive a recession. Well, that company 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.200 in particular has zero exper arians. The irony is, um, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.680 I was writing my book in late two thousand and eight, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.040 throughout all of two thousand and nine came out. So 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.360 this is when the economy was in terrible shape, and 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.839 ironically I barely noticed because at Facebook there was no 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.280 evidence of it. What sweve um and so there really 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.400 is unequivocally you can say Mark Zuckerberg has never been 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.640 through a real downturn, and be people who are young 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.959 may not realize in two thousand and eight, two thousand 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.880 and nine we had a serious recession. That is something 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.679 very very new for that company in particular. Well, and 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.280 obviously Mark Zuckerberg has made a lot of big acquisitions 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.280 over the years, but wasn't able to buy Snap, wasn't 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.560 able to buy Twitter if that was ever really on 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.199 the table. But Alex, do you do think could M 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.760 and A be a possibility? You know, could some of 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.480 these companies buy or sell their way out of this 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.200 potentially if they feel like they have the cash to 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.600 do so. Um. For Mark Zuckerberry looking at Facebook, um, 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.640 I that they have this now existential threat of the 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.320 macroeconomic environment. He's also kind of dealing with this threat 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.280 of users wanting and experience that didn't originate on Facebook. 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.679 The TikTok size elephant in the room is something that 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.360 all of the metal platforms, from Facebook to Instagram are 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.480 also having to contend with. Right now, it looks like 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:25.320 that company in particular is betting on building and changing 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.840 both the flagship face Facebook app and the Instagram app 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.840 to better satiate users obsession with short form videos without 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.480 trying to alienate the user base um that they have. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.280 You saw changes with both Facebook and Instagram's core experience 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.440 this week, basically making them look more like TikTok so 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.040 um buying their way out of it. You know, I 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:48.760 think that would be a big question, and if I 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.720 were the board of these companies, I would want to 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.880 be maybe taking a conservative view, because if you're not 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.880 putting that money toward things like head count and bringing 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.160 on people too more quickly develop things in house, I 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.840 would think that those dollars would need to be spent 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.000 pretty presciently if you're looking for somebody to keep up 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.640 with the times amongst these social media companies. David, I 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.800 believe you were reporting at the time of the dot 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.080 com bust. I mean, based on your own professional experience. 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.040 What's your sense of how Silicon Valley, this version of 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.119 Silicon Valley survives a recession. Well, I don't think survival 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.520 is in question. I mean, these companies are deeply embedded, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.480 as I said in the earlier segment in the world economy. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.840 But but interestingly, the business at Meta that is most 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.960 embedded is the one they get essentially no revenue from 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.720 what's that UM, and I find out I rhn UM, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:51.400 but I think that they really will be okay for 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.440 the short term. It's you know, I think if it's 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.320 likely a recession will be short if we have one, 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:04.240 and I think they will manage their way out. Interesting. Uh, Brinka, 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:05.920 you know what are you what are you hearing from 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.760 your sources inside these companies? Is there you know? For 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.160 some of my sources at Facebook, it still seems like 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:17.280 good times, yeah, or at least it seems like motivated times, right. Um. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.280 You have the company prioritizing things like um changes to 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.920 their feeds, like I mentioned, to keep up with with 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.400 the tik talks of the world. You also have UM 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.040 you know that whole uh, not legacy business, but existing business, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.560 the ad business on Instagram and Facebook basically funding their 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.840 new ventures into the metaverse, the bright Chinese new object 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.840 that Mark Zuckerberg has indicated is the future of where 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.240 they're going. So good times in parts of the business. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.000 I will flag Emily with these hiring freezes and maybe 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.640 the bad pockets that we're seeing at meta UM, there's 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.480 concern around things that really matter to a lot of 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.600 the people on the ground, like diverse workforces and what 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.760 happens when you're not hiring as many people and how 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.680 do they continue to contact end with UM the bubbling 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.440 up of misinformation going into the mid term, So UM, 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.800 I think that you know, good times depending on what 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.240 team you're sitting on, might be the way to look 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.640 at that. Are you within the groups that are seen 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.160 as kind of the future, or you know the really 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.800 necessary changes that are instrumental to making sure that these 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.520 businesses maintain their cultural relevancy with the users that are 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.359 so important to them and advertisers, or are you in 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.600 some of these pockets that maybe are starting to fall 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.720 below the line UM and are not seen as places 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.520 that the that their internal dollars should go UM to 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.639 kind of catapult the company into into and through a 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:41.080 chop your economic environment quick David Snap just shed half 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.879 its value. Evan Spiegel didn't want to sell before, but 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:45.760 do you think he might be more willing now or 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.600 it could Snap be a target. I think it could be. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.280 But really, with Lena Khan at the FTC, the current 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.560 mood in the US government and the EU, I don't 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.399 think it's a good time for any of these companies 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.359 to make a big acquisition um, I also think just 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.640 quickly a well to mention. You know, I do think 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:06.000 Facebook Metal will get through this. But Zuckerberg's comments recently 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.440 about pairing back his staff sounded very heartless. I think 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.159 they were very ill. They showed an inexperienced manager, and 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.840 it could deter future hiring. It really makes it sound 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.120 like a bad place to work. If you know, we've 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.119 got a lot of deadwood, let's just get rid of it. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.560 Mm hmm. Indeed, interesting point. Okay, Damn M. Kirkpatrick's CEO 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.040 of Techonomy. As always in our very own alet Sparenka, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:39.399 appreciate you joining a few other stories. We continue to 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.200 watch progressive groups once send a majority leader Chuck Schumer 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.320 to recuse himself from legislation targeting big tech. They say 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.680 he has a conflict of interest because his daughters or 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.040 Get Amazon and Meta. Various different groups have been advocating 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.800 for anti trust measures cracking down on tech giants. No 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.960 comment yet from Schumer himself. Commerce at Terry Jena Raimondo 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.800 says the US can't keep relying on Taiwan for semiconductors. 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.920 In a virtual speech at the Aspen Security Forum, Raimondo 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.639 said Congress needs to pass legislation to support the domestic 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.439 production of high end computer chips. She also called the 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:25.720 fifty billion dollar package quote a spot Nick moment for America. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.520 Apple has changed its tune in Washington. New lobby disclosure 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.240 figures reviewed by Bloomberg show that Apple has been spending 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.359 more money than ever before. Apple even going as far 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.960 as deploying Tim Cook himself to work the halls of Congress. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:43.840 This as the tech giant is fighting the package of 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.960 antitrust bills that might get a vote next week. Bloomberg 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.440 Smart German joins us now for more So, Mark, it's 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.560 understandable that Tim Cook might have more sway if he 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.840 visits Washington personally than if he sends in a team 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.960 of lobbyists. But what do we know about how app 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.400 poll is change in tact. It seems like this is episodic. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.320 Right now. It's a very challenging time, not only for Apple, 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:09.320 but a lot of the big tech companies where they 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.240 really need to up their lobbying efforts to fight against 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.360 some bills and some circumstances that could really up end 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.720 some of their business models. Right so, it makes sense 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.320 to me that Tim Cook would be there personally talking 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.560 to lawmakers, meeting with people on Capitol Hill, and voicing 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.040 Apple's concerns with some of these bills surrounding anti trust measures. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.080 Tim Cook also has wanted to float new privacy laws, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.640 and him, along with some executives from other companies, are 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.080 trying to put push new privacy laws there as well. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.360 Cook has been making the argument that Apple's privacy centric 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.680 approach to its products not only is good for the consumers, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:44.719 but means they really shouldn't have to take on these 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.240 new anti trust bills because they do it in order 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.200 to make the devices more private. Now, that doesn't make 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:51.879 a ton of sense to me and a lot of people, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.080 but that is Apple's argument there, and that is what 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.400 he has been pushing. So here's a question. Is it working. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.160 Is Tim Cook himself of going to Washington making these 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:07.399 um pushes, Are our our lawmakers hearing it. There have 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.560 been some changes to some of the bills, some of 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.480 the language there that will make the anti trust bills 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.000 less difficult on Apple in terms of needing to change 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.000 things right, particularly with that privacy argument. It has been 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.800 working in some respects. Obviously, the efforts won't fully work 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.840 unless these nentry trust bills don't pass, and Apple doesn't 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.159 have to make widespread changes to its products. But of 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.680 course it's not only the US where Apple is doing 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.480 its lobbying efforts. One big fundamental change that the company 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:34.520 is making next year is changing the port on the 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.160 iPhone from Lightning, which has existed for the last ten 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.240 eleven years, to USBC, And that's in part due to 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.840 some changes that lawmakers abroad have pushed. So Apple really 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:46.200 is taking it from all angles here and that is 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.760 why they're upping these lobbying spends. So this package of 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.200 tech bills that would potentially curb some of the power 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.679 of these companies were expected to see potentially some movement 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.760 on them next week. Any likelihood any of this will 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.080 pass us, you know, I think it's you know, truly 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.800 to tell there has been some momentum on Capitol Hill 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:07.720 for these bills. If I were to, you know, tell 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.680 you one way or another, I would just be speculating. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.720 I personally think that major changes are coming to Apple's 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.720 platforms in either way. Right, there's obviously the Digital Markets Act, 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:18.680 there's the acts that you have been talking about. There 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.200 are the different laws that have been pushed from lawmakers 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.760 abroad in here at home in the US. Right, So 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.479 I do think we're going to see fundamental changes either way. 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:28.239 I don't think it's about if, but I think it's 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.240 about when. Whether that's this year, next year, or the 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.200 year after, there will be a fundamental shift. And how 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.080 does what Apple's doing compared to what other big tech 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.720 companies are doing on the hill, whether it is Meta 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.680 or Alphabet or Amazon. I mean, they all have huge 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.720 lobbying arms, right, I mean I think that you can 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.520 take a look at the lab being spent and some 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.960 of these other companies are doing. Apple spent a few 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:51.919 hundred million dollars. So sorry, let me step back. A 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.560 few million dollars, not a few hundred million dollars. I 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.520 know that's a big difference this year on lobbying. That 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.920