WEBVTT - The Great Wall of China Episode 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:12.640 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.360 Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, just the two 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.279 of us again. Fine, so the Lone Wolves, the pack 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:26.800 of the Lone Wolves. I'm just trying new stuff here. Yeah. Wolverines, 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.800 Yeah in Colorado blows my mind. Yeah. Where do you 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.720 think it was? Again? Michigan? Right, and all the mountain Rangers. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.680 I just thought I hadn't been far enough north in 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.440 Michigan before, despite growing up an hour south of it. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.360 I saw a little bit of the old Red Dawn 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:51.360 again the other night. How did you stop it ended? Okay, 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.840 that's all the end I saw from like Powers booth 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.720 on Okay. When he entered the picture, yeah, which I mean, like, 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.920 if you think about it, he did need to be there. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.320 But his introduction was great. It was wonderful. I think 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.880 he played a vital role. I think they could have 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.840 done fine without him. He's a little creepy with the 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.520 young ladies, though with Leah Thompson he was sick. He 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.039 got what he deserved. I still haven't seen the remake, 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.360 No need, Nope, So Chuck, Yes, I have another question 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.600 about something you've seen. Have you ever seen the Great 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.080 Wall of China? Not in person? Let me ask you 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.360 something else. Have you ever seen the ten thousand lie 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.319 long Wall. I don't know what you speak. That's the 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:43.039 Great Wall of China, I'm just kidding. Also called the 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.480 long Wall of ten thousand Lee. It's another way to 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.680 put it l I. And that is a unit of 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:52.880 measurement in China. Apparently it's about one click. Yeah, no too, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.200 two clicks, two clicks. This doesn't here. One kilometer now, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.640 oh yeah, I'm sorry to Lee, being is equivalent to 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:07.400 one kilometer. I'm sorry you did one click? To Lee, man, 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:13.440 this thing. The wheels are falling off already, right. The 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.399 Western hemisphere is generally the folks who say the Great 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.200 Wall of China, right, And so if it's the ten 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.320 thousand Lee long Wall, and to Lee is one click, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.000 then that means that it's the five thousand kilometer long Wall, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.440 is what they would call it in China. And that's 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:35.280 actually way off. There was a very long time that 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:42.000 people thought that the Great Wall was maybe between kilometers 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.600 to sixty kilometers. I believe was the high end somewhere 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.680 in there. And um all over them app really Yeah. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.519 And finally, at one point in two thousand seven, China said, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.760 you know what, we're gonna take this seriously, after nearly 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.560 two thousand years, We're going to go measure this bag. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.679 Who's got some rope? Yeah. Luckily by then GPS had 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.200 been developed and they used that a lot. But they 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.240 did they did a modern survey of the Great Wall, 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.400 and they found that it was not a five thousand, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.079 five thousand kilometer long wall. No, they found Chuck, how 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:21.600 long was it? Over thirteen thousand miles? Over twenty one clicks? 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.160 It's a lot of clicks. That is a very long wall, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.000 and it depends on who you ask, Like, that is 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.200 the ultimate length of the entire wall if you take 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.560 into account every bit of construction phase that was ever 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.080 done to it. Yeah, which we'll get into, but that 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.840 generally means pre Ming dynasty and post Ming dynasty. Preming 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:49.040 was about seventy seven hundred roughly miles. Uh, and in 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.880 really bad shape. Apparently the pr Preming sections only are 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.520 about eight percent hole. Yeah. Well, I mean some of 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.680 them were built back in two hundred b C. Long time. Yeah, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:02.960 they weren't like what you think of as the wall 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.400 as we'll see. Uh. And I found I found this 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.600 interesting in the ming section or post ming section. Uh. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.800 Five thousand out of the five thousand, four nine miles 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.760 um two hundred and twenty three miles or trenches, so 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.760 not a wall at all. That's like a reverse wall. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:26.440 And about fourteen hundred little less were natural barreas right, 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.599 like they just took advantage of ridges or rivers or 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.280 you know, really things. Yeah, I didn't know about the 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.760 river thing, so uh, pretty interesting. And it's widest it 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.760 is thirty ft. At is highest it is twenty six ft, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.320 and it goes through some rough terrain. And we should 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:48.320 mention stick around through this one. Because the wonderful Christen 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.600 Conger from stuff Mom Never told you has walked at 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.320 the Great Wall, not the whole thing, very small portion 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.680 kilometers of it. No, but she's we're gonna bring her 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.320 at the and uh and she said, I'm no expert, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:03.680 she said, but I can say what it's like to 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.760 be there. And I said, that's all we need. So 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.000 we're gonna bring in Congor here right at the end. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.680 So it was kind of surprising to everybody that, um, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.440 the Great Wall is thirteen thousand miles long. It's way 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.360 longer than anybody ever thought. They're like, whoa, right, Um, 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.719 but that's not It's not like one unbroken wall even 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.520 when it was all solid. Even if it were all solid, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.600 it wouldn't be one on broken wall. As a matter 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.440 of fact, the territory that it spans is about two 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.800 hundred and twenty thousand kilometers put the emphasis on the 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.680 wrong two hundred and twenty kilometers long, right, And the 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.120 wall is a bunch of series of overlapping walls and 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.000 embattlements and apparently rivers. And the reason that no one 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.839 knew how long the wall actually was is because for 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.960 hundreds of years, China kind of didn't like its wall. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.640 It looked at it as a kind of a relic 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:03.400 of a backwards feudal era, and that it it had 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.719 a lot to be ashamed of. Yeah, there's in fact, 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.359 this one article I sent from the Smithsonian to you, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.720 uh said that one of the great endangered What makes 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.640 it endanger today, which it is, um, is what they 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.839 call a paucity of scholarship. There is not one single 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:24.080 Chinese academic on the planet, or any anyone on the 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.560 planet who specializes in the Great Wall of China and 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.200 the whole planet hard to believe, it really is. In 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.000 the author of this article, brick Larmer Lamour, one of 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:38.200 those two um brock Landers, points out that, Um, that's 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.359 really surprising, Um, because this is a very old wall. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.400 It's one of the seven New Seven Wonders, right. Um. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.120 You can see it from outer space clear as day now, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.880 from the from the moon, you can see the thing. Um, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.839 and it just it deserves scholarship. But it really it 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.640 wasn't until the early two thousands that China actually it 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.159 was for that. I think it was the eighties when 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.760 Zeen Japing, the the chairman who came after Mao Um 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.800 said we need to preserve this well. And I think 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.920 some regions had here and there over the years. It 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.720 wasn't like the whole country. A lot of folks there 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.280 like people, and in fact, I think the same article 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.880 points out that just regular citizens in there, like small village, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.600 some had reverence for the wall and would try and 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.200 you know, patrol it, patrol it or or repair it. Yeah, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.520 it's led to some not so great repairs, you know. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:40.200 The one that who againanders points out she says that 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.120 there's one, uh, there's one section of the Wall in 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.720 a province called Gion or a city called Gion, where 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.720 they repaired it with bathroom tiles. None the most authentic 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.840 building material you can use to restore the Great Wall, 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.520 but it does display a complete in a lot of cases, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.559 change in attitude to the Great Wall. It was something 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.840 to be neglected and um mocked. Now it's something to 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.000 be preserved. And they've just recently passed laws saying like 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.679 you can't throw raves on the Great Wall of China anymore. 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.080 You can't drive on the Great Wall of China, which 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.160 is apparently a thing. Yeah uh and what we'll get 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.800 to that too later. But you mentioned something that is 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.960 not true, and we need to really point out that 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:29.320 you cannot see it from space. The old uh Wives 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.960 tales that has really stood the test of time. You 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:37.760 know who made that up? Robert Ripley. Oh really, yep, 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.320 what a jerk in like some thirties comic strip. He's 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.800 like he just completely fabricated. The Great Wall of China 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:46.959 is the only man made structure you can see from space. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.040 It sounds like such a great little fact. Though it's great, 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.199 it's like a total Ripley, believe it or not a 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.800 thing right, and um, it wasn't until we got to 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:59.160 space in the fifties, Um, that people were able to 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.480 say like, no, you can't. You can see it from 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.120 lower Earth orbit, but that's not outer space, which is 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.040 what Robert Ripley I think he actually said, you can 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.200 see it from the moon. Yeah, so that's when we 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.480 found out for sure that you can't. Um. I think 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.880 they had the guys on the moon say can you 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:17.520 can you see the Great Wall? And they're like, no, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.160 not at all. Yeah, they like said, you'd be able 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.120 to see every highway if you could see the Great Wall. Right. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.440 So from lower Earth orbit you can see the Great 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.000 Wall depending on the conditions because again a lot of 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.280 it's made of like earthen clay and stuff from around it. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.960 We talked about this before, but like when it snows 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:36.880 or something, you can kind of see some of it. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.160 But you can also see the pyramids too, so big whoop. Yeah. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.480 And you know what I was just thinking. I was 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.600 given Robert Ripley a hard time, but he he didn't 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.760 say believe it. He said believe it or don't you know? 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.800 Up to you good point chuck uh. And then lastly, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.760 this sounds like an urban legend to me because I 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:00.120 don't know any Chinese people, um, anyone in China who 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.320 can verify or deny this, please let us know. But 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.360 from what I understand, the Chinese did not believe that 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:11.079 you couldn't see the Great Wall from space until their 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.600 own astronaut, the first Chinese astronaut I don't, went into 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.800 orbit and I think two thousand three and said no 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.840 you can't. And and that was a collective billions strong 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.960 uh yeah. Um, So the Great Wall, like you said, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:30.160 was built in pieces over a couple of thousand years um, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:35.800 starting with they believe the Western Han dynasty UM all 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.360 the way back in two oh six BC to a 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.800 D four Uh. They were followed by the Northern uh 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:51.520 We dynasty, the Northern Key Dynasty, the Sweet Sweet Sweet Dynasty, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:56.920 Uh Sweat Dynasty, the Lao Dynasty, the Jin dynasty, and 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.319 finally that was all pre Ming and and it was 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:06.400 just a series of um not so great walls before 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.040 the Ming dynasty to keep out uh invaders and and 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.000 largely invaders from the north. Yeah. And remember in our 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:20.480 Terracotta Army episode, we talked a lot about um Chi 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.199 I think it was his name, um and he's the 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.760 guy who unified these six separate states into China, the 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.640 China we or most of the China we we know today. Um. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.960 And even before him, there were these walls in these 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.040 six states to keep one another out. So there was 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.960 like this early like these proto walls. But Chi Showa, 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:48.080 I'm saying that like eight different ways. Um, Emperor Chi, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.760 we'll call him. Uh, he was the first one to say, like, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.000 we should connect some of these walls and make a 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.680 great wall. And I think that was the initial beginning 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.800 and the whole reason was he wanted to keep the 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.719 huns out. Yeah. The huns were not ice. Um. They 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:07.959 were fierce and feared and really great at two things. Um. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.880 One is riding horses and two is shooting arrows. Yeah, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.319 and doing them at the same time. Yeah. Because they 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.800 were not agricultural, so they did a lot of hunting 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.520 and that's why they were so good at at archery. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.920 And they were to be feared and did a great 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.320 job at breaking havoc throughout Asia. Um. So the wall 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.560 was definitely necessary, uh, and it worked pretty well for 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.120 a while. I mean, like the Emperor Chi and his 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:41.200 dynasty were not like milk toasts themselves. The huns were 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:42.800 enough of a threat that they're like, we just need 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.400 to build a huge wall to keep out. I don't 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.080 want them hanging out anymore. Yeah. It was built by 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:55.120 basically three groups. Um, soldiers were about the second largest contributor, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:13:00.160 Commoners was was the leading contributor, and then criminals. Back 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.199 in the day, when you would get in trouble, you 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.320 would be sentenced to four years on the wall. You 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.080 would guard it during the day, and you would build 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.920 it at night. Wow, when did you sleep in the afternoon. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.840 I don't know, Like it's a good point in the evening. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.800 That's why they call it hard labor, my friend. Yeah, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.280 that is hard labor. And apparently thousands, thousands and thousands. 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.880 I didn't see any hard numbers, did you. I saw 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.240 up to a million, but that just sounds one of 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.480 those died. Yeah. Wow, well, I guess you think about 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.240 it's over two thousand years Yeah, possible, it's uh And 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.360 a lot of the bodies and bones are still in 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.000 that wall. At one point that was referred to as 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.040 the longest cemetery in the world. Wow, that's neat. Yeah, 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.320 not really haunting. Yeah that's what I mean. You know 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.120 me so, um not every single dynasty came along and said, oh, well, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.000 let's do our bit to add to the Great Wall 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.760 of China, because in two thousand seven it will become 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.800 one of the seven Wonders of the modern world. We 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.200 want to be a part of that. Some dynasty's um 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.800 had it seemed it seemed to all rest in the motivation, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.080 like how much of a threat was coming from the north, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.480 because the thing runs from east to west, from the 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:13.200 Gobi Desert to the Yellow Sea, I believe right, and um, 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.080 so how much of a problem you had from the 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.080 barbarians to the north, to how much um fighting from uh, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.400 like within the different cities, because remember it's not just 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.960 one unbroken east to west wall. There's like different areas 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.720 that are blocked off by the wall. So some dynasties 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.720 had more problems than others. And it seemed like if 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.520 you were really having a lot of trouble with outsiders, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.840 you would spend a lot of your resources to building 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.400 the wall or enlarging it, or going back and rebuilding 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.280 some earlier stuff. And a lot of them did. But 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.200 it's like you said, about a little over half of 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.920 the wall was completed by all these other dynasties, and 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.280 then the rest was from the Ming dynasty. They just 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.240 went crazy on that thing. Uh yeah, and you know what, 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.240 let's stick a break here and we'll really get into 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.840 the Ming dynasty right after this. We'll go crazy on 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:18.960 that all right. Here we are in thirteen sixty eight. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.200 The Ming Dynasty is in action and they are killing 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.480 it on the Great Wall. Um. They are not just 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.880 building a wall. Sometimes they're building two walls in three 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.760 walls to confuse people trying to enter. I don't know 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.600 if it's confusing frustrating, but well you would well, yeah, 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.760 good point. I would just think, yeah, you climb over 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.600 the wall, and you're like, ah, there's another wall, right, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.040 But I wouldn't think like, whoa did I just climb 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.280 into the wall that I just climbed? Like how which 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.440 side of my right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's a 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.120 good points turn around and solve that conundrum. Well, maybe 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.640 in uh, in fourteenth century China, it was a little 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.280 more confusing. Maybe maybe UH they built it higher and 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:05.000 wider than ever before, and UM did a bunch of 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:10.320 other things to the wall, specifically, UH guard towers and 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:16.760 places to UM put military supplies, bunkers, things like that lights, yes, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.000 which is a big one they apparently, and I think 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.200 we're going back to brock Lander's brooke armor. Um. She 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.240 says that at one point, thanks to using either smoke 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.920 or fire, smoke during the day, um and fire at night, 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.360 they could travel. They could send messages all up and 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:39.360 down the wall. It's something like twenty six Yeah, that's 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.800 like broadband Internet of the day. Um. And it was 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.880 all because the Mean came in and started they put 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.480 up guard posts and apparently the Ming also were very 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.840 progressive and had a big problem with desertion. But they said, well, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.520 you know what, how about this, If you have to 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.240 man this guard post for years at a time, bring 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.400 your family and as a matter of if you do 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.520 a really good job, we'll name this guard post after 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.920 your family. And there's still plenty of guard posts today. 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.280 Said bear the family names of the people who live 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.520 in the region and didn't sell out their own people. Yeah, 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.200 well that was a big thing, because if you put 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.520 people on a wall, you definitely open yourself up for 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.520 people to let people you don't want in through the 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.919 wall if they give them money, exactly. And that's what 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.879 happened to um. The wall worked pretty great until the 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:33.080 seventeenth century, and finally the man Chu invaded successfully into China, 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.920 brought down the Ming dynasty, and they said, yeah, this 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.639 wall kind of snakes. We got through it just fine, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.480 so why put forth a lot more effort into this thing. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.320 And from that point forward, construction on it pretty much stopped. Yeah, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.040 And starting in sixteen they made it through the wall 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:55.200 and that was that. That was that so um for 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.000 the next few hundred years, I believe the man Chu 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:04.200 they set up the key the Ching Ching dynasty right um. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.439 And so for this time I think it went up 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.200 to like nineteen thirteen or something like that. There there 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.120 was this that that definitely is where the roots of 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.000 scorn towards the wall was set up. The people, the 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.679 ruling class had made it through this wall. It had 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.280 been set up to keep them out. It hadn't. So 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.280 this wall is stupid is basically the prevailing sentiment in China. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.199 And then when Chairman Mao came into power, um, he 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.040 was all about the cultural revolution. Now looking backward, going 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.440 forward right, yes, and so what better way to get 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.479 rid of the past and the backwards history of China 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.840 um but then literally disassemble the wall this huge symbol 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.520 of old China, so he called. He was the founding 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.440 father of the People's Republic of China, and he basically 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.880 said all the way up until like the nineteen fifties, 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.000 do you want to build a house. I know where 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.240 you can get some brick. Yeah, it's just outside your 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.760 front door, and uh, go go take what you need. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.480 And that was responsible for a large part of the 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:11.600 early uh non natural erosion of the wall, people just 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.680 taking it apart pretty much. Um, there's also zero protection 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.639 of the wall. Not only was it being disassembled, but 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.440 nobody was really trying to safeguard it at all. So 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.480 cattle would be moved across it. Um, they'd be allowed 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.720 to graze right up on it. Um. There would be 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.960 natural stuff too, like the freeze thaw cycle. It's really 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.720 hard on mortar joints, right yeah, And just exposure to 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.679 the elements period over that long it's gonna damage it. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.439 And then also like if people are cutting down trees 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.960 for firewood, that of stuff that's holding the soil in 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.920 place along the wall. When that tree goes, the soil 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.840 loosens too. When the soil loosens beneath it, the wall 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.520 topples itself. So when you factor in the human element 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.560 and the lack of well, well, I guess government encouragement 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.000 of disassembling the wall, and then the natural elements too. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.480 You've got a wall it's in serious, serious disrepair, especially 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.679 considering some of this stuff is like almost two thousand 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.960 years old by now. Yeah. This one article I think 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.000 it was from the Smithsonian again, talked about the desertification, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:24.480 which we had a great podcast on desertification. Um. And 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:29.520 and apparently inn ninja x i A. I'm so bad 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.040 with the Chinese words. Well, hold on, let me try 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.239 to figure this out. I'm gonna go with nin Jia 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.040 for now. Stop me if you x i A. Right. Um, 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.760 but desertification is a big problem there because and this 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.679 is super interesting when they constructed the wall and this 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.560 part of the country policy was burned down all the 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.959 trees and all the grass within sixty miles on the 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.439 other side of the wall, the bad side. Uh, and 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.040 then on our inside, we're let's clear the land to farm. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.800 All great ideas, right, yeah, but what happens is, um, 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:07.960 it's an environmental disaster. Is what is what modern Uh? 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:15.080 What geologists, geographers, geographers, sandographers, sand people, Uh? It's what 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.880 the Tuscan raiders they say, it's an environmental disaster. So basically, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.200 the northern desert in China is expanding at one million 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.000 acres a year at this point, and the Great Wall 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:28.760 is right in the middle of that path. And what 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.600 happens is sand dunes will just completely covered up in places. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.840 Or remember we talked about flash flooding being a big 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:40.800 problem in desertification, and that's gonna crumble the base and 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.760 it just eroads it. Yeah, so it's that whole area 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.399 because of desertification, is losing its wall. I remember that 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.359 from our desertification episode, that the Gobi Desert is just 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.240 growing immensely every year, is it? Nina, did you get 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.880 an answer on that? It is? You did it? Ya? 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.199 It is? That's it, Nina, that's you man. You have 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:07.720 a side career in Chinese pronunciation. I don't know about that. Um. 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.960 All right, let's take another break. We'll talk about tourism 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:29.480 and then some of the new efforts to preserve the wall. Yeah, so, Chok, 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.159 we were talking about how like the human element is 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.520 huge on deteriorating the Great Wall of China. UM. And 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.960 not only is it people using bricks for their homes 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.800 which you can carry. You can hardly blame a subsistence 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.520 farmer for that kind of thing, especially apparently in the 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:52.600 more remote areas there they have no, um, no fondness 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:54.960 for the wall. They don't care about it, they don't 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.320 know that much about it. And a lot of times, 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.720 and especially in the remote areas, these are where like 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.439 the wall is most dilapidated. So it's like, yeah, why 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.080 wouldn't I grab this brick and make a house that 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.520 I need? Um? Or should I should I contribute to 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.880 the preservation of the wall? You tell me, guy from Beijing, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.119 you know what I mean. Um. So those areas in 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:17.160 the or the parts of the wall in the more 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.520 rural areas are under the most threat, for sure, but 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.120 that the stuff in the very highly trafficed areas thanks 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:28.760 to tourists are equally under threat because people still just 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.280 take bricks. But a lot of times it's foreign tourists 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.120 taking bricks for souvenirs, that's right. Either that or they're 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:37.439 um carving things into the wall. And every time you 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:39.399 carve something into the wall, you're chipping away at it. 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:43.240 Of course, Uh, there are souvenir shops and cable cars 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:48.359 and sky cars, businesses and restaurants and billboards and all 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.120 kinds of things that scattered along the most populated parts 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:54.520 of the wall. Yeah, like right up on it. Yeah, 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.240 you never see those in pictures, people driving their cars 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.159 on the Great Wall of China having raves like you 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.280 talked about earlier. Yeah, it sounds like and apparently like 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.199 the raves were outlawed. But I saw online that they 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.920 still had one in two thousand fifteen, and it looked lame. 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:14.440 I really, I think they had two thousand people, which 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:17.560