1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly Frye and 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: We talked about the Catacombs of Rome this week. Yeah, 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: this is one where I felt almost a little guilty 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: because there's so much scholarship about it. Giving a brief overview, 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm leaving so much stuff out. But 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: there was one particular recent development that was pretty interesting 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: to me that isn't really germane to the catacombs as 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: an entity themselves. It's a thing that references the Catacombs. 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty five, there was a meeting or 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: a mass, depending on which sore she she read, held 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: in the catacombs of Domatilla. There were forty bishops there. 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: They were in Rome for the Second Vatican Council, and 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: they had this meeting there to discuss the way that 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: the clergy and particularly the bishops were living and their 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: lifestyle and its lack of alignment with the people that 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: they were pledged to serve. Sure So this resulted in 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: a document which is called the Pact of the Catacombs, 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: where these bishops committed to live their lives as the 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: average man, basically like renouncing their life of privilege, holding 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: no land, like any land that any of them had, 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: they were supposed to sign over to the Church. They 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, were not supposed to wear fancy vestiments even 26 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: like keep everybody, keep it keep it cool, let's stay 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: basic and make it about our religious promise and not 28 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: about all of the benefits that being connected to the 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: Vatvatican gives us. It's a really lovely sentiment. It got 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: a lot of sort of ground swell support, Like eventually 31 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: it started with those forty bishops and eventually I think 32 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: five hundred bishops signed it, but then it just kind of. 33 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: Faded in the background. 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: Oh but then in twenty twenty two, Pope Francis was like, hey, 35 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: you guys, remember this, which fits if you know anything 36 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: about you know, his papacy in the way he went 37 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: about it, and he actually had another mass there at 38 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: the Basilica to kind of recommit people to it. It's 39 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: really interesting because NPR did a piece about it. I 40 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: think it was NPR where they had interviewed people like 41 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: historians within the Vatican and stuff, and they were kind 42 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: of like, well, some of the reason that it fell 43 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: out of favor. Is not necessarily what you think, like, 44 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily like it's hard to give up fancy stuff. 45 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: As in the time nineteen sixty five, they were a 46 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: little worried that if they suddenly renounced everything and we're 47 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: like we are going to live as simple common men, 48 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: that people would be like, are you communisty now? So, yeah, 49 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: it's popularity waned pretty quickly. But it's interesting and I 50 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: like that it has been reintroduced in recent years as 51 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: something to consider, you know, for anybody. I mean, listen, 52 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: nobody needs a billion dollars. Nobody needs a billion dollars. 53 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very funny because the Vatican is one 54 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: of the wealthiest entities on the planet. I mean I 55 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: wonder all the time because you'll if you look up 56 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: valuations of the Vatican's holdings, like it's almost impossible, right, 57 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: nobody really knows everything, and some of it is just 58 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: like logistically it's impossible. It's not even necessarily that things 59 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: are being withheld. It's that there are things like catacombs 60 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: that technically they are in charge of, but they can't 61 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: get in there to know what's in there. Like there 62 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: are when you have an entity that is so many 63 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: centuries old. There's just stuff that's hidden. I'm suddenly reminded 64 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: of a completely unrelated thing from back when I was 65 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: working in cataloging in a university library, when there was 66 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: like a very specific and very rare book that I 67 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: think one of our professors wanted from a library in London, 68 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: and we were like, it's in your catalog, Like what 69 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: do we need to do to make this work? Like 70 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 1: where he can get access or you can even ship 71 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: it and you insured and we'll And they were like, 72 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: here's the problem. It's here, but we don't know where. 73 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: Because it predates the bombings during World War Two, a 74 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: lot of things in our catalog are not really accessible, 75 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: but we keep them in the catalog for the sake 76 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: of the record. And I was like, that's fascinating, and 77 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: so this is a similar thing in many cases, right, 78 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: there's stuff that's there, Yeah, buried probably. 79 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: It's very fascinating. Yeah. 80 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Something I really liked about this episode, Like in school, 81 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: we mostly learned about Rome in the context of ancient Rome, 82 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: ancient Rome paganism, right like early or like the story 83 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: of earlier origins of democracy. That's a that's the whole 84 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: separate thing. But like, yeah, that's sort of how it 85 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: was taught to me in K through twelfth school and 86 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: then visiting Rome the one time that I've been there. 87 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: The amount of Christianity is inescapable. Oh yeah, it's just 88 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: like just everywhere. And so I had never really thought 89 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: about this window of time, like the transitional period between 90 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: Roman paganism and Christianity becoming the official religion of the 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: Roman Empire. Like I knew about conceptually about persecutions and 92 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: all of that, but I had not really thought about 93 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: that process and also thought about the fact that there 94 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: were also Jewish people there like that. Just it just 95 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: was a thing that had not really solidified in my mind, 96 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: and then this story laid it all out. 97 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it is. 98 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: It's surprisingly quick when you think about it, right that 99 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: it goes from hey, you got to get out because 100 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: we don't like that you're proselytizing, to you know, two 101 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: hundred and change years later, going by the way, everybody's 102 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: cool with like that last gasp of we hate Christians too. 103 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: Everybody worship whatever you want. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Also, 104 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: whatever deity is the real one, be cool with us, 105 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: and then it's only it's less than seventy years after 106 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: that that they're like, by the way. 107 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: Christianity official religion. Yeah, that's fast. Yeah, yeah, it's very fast. 108 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: Fascinating, Like could you imagine, I mean, I think some 109 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: of this is because of you know, where it is 110 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: on the timeline of recorded history, but could you imagine. 111 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if there's an example of a 112 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: country today that changes its official religion in less than 113 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: a century, like from you know, hyper intensive persecution to no, 114 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: that's actually our religion. 115 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: It's interesting in that regard. Yeah, and you don't. 116 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense when you think about it, 117 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: trying to kind of apply our knowledge of how humans 118 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: live and work and tend to congregate in the metropolises 119 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: that are seats of power that there would be like 120 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: other diverse people moving in, but we don't. We don't 121 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: get it in school as And also there were Christians 122 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: and Jewish people living there and they all had to 123 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: figure out how to make this work, and they had 124 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: to and it didn't always work, and they had to 125 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: figure out, you know, how to handle day to day 126 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: things like burying the dead. It's it's just interesting to me, 127 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: and so different from France, where it's like, uh oh spaghettios, 128 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: we've got a lot of dead people. 129 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: We got to do something that. 130 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Was a whole different thing, so completely different that I 131 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: was ready for it to be less different than it. 132 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: I didn't realize they went all the way back to 133 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the first century. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, fascinating on my list. 134 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: Although I am slightly claustrophobic, I managed okay in the 135 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: catacombs Paris because once you're down that's s viral staircase. 136 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: Going down was not my friend. But once you're down there. 137 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: It's so cool that like the the fear parts of 138 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: my brain took a hike. Yeah, I remember who you 139 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: were down there, Like your expression was just like utterly transfixed. 140 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 2: Oh we were down there, so into it. 141 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: And the thing is that catacombs in Rome are much bigger, 142 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: Like when you're in the catacombs in Paris, it's close, 143 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: you're there's not a lot of headroom. There's this literally 144 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: has like vaulted ceilings in some sections. In some cases, 145 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's multi stories. So I think it would 146 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: probably feel less claustrophobic. So we'll find out when I 147 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: go to Rome next. I don't know when that is, 148 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: but we're gonna get happened one way or another. Yeah, 149 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: because I got to see this, I had to pull 150 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: myself out of museums long enough to go do another thing. 151 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: This episode was also fun in how illustrative it is 152 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: of the ways it's come up recently on the show before. 153 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: So it may just be top of mind for me 154 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: right now, but how illustrative it is of the ways 155 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: that people will make logic jumps about things they're observing 156 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: that don't really hold water. They seem reasonable, so people 157 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: pick them up and run with them. Yeah, that's just 158 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. I'm like, oh, this is how misinformation 159 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: perpetuates itself throughout years and years and years as we 160 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: try to sort out what's going on historically. And this 161 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: is an instance where there is enough recognition of the 162 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: importance of both the Jewish and the Christian catacombs that 163 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: there is a lot of scholarly interest in them. So 164 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: who knows if we'll get more information as time goes on. 165 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: It's also everything kind of you know, modern that's written 166 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: about it too, always does that kind of like, hey, 167 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: bt dubs, there could be more we haven't figured out yet. Like, 168 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: there's the high possibility that there are even more that 169 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: we just haven't haven't identified or uncovered, because there's you know, yeah, 170 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: they kind of like ran you know, Rome had its 171 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: kind of spokes of roads out of the city, and 172 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: a lot of them ran kind of a lot parallel 173 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: to some of those roads, like because people needed to 174 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: be able to access them. And so there are places 175 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: where people are like, no one's found one here yet, 176 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: there very well could be one, but then you would 177 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: have to initiate a dig and get permission. And as 178 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: we know, you know, the Italian government is very careful 179 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: about what they do and do not give permits for, 180 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: I mean, even from their their art as well as 181 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: their history. So that's part of why it why it 182 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: will probably take a minute, but I bet we'll find 183 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: more in our lifetimes. They're going to come up on Earth. 184 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: I guarantee at some time. I like how I just 185 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: made a guarantee. I can't substantiate any kind of way 186 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: other than vibes, but it was fascinating to me. I 187 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: don't know why I love Catacomb so much. 188 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 2: I just do. They're cool. 189 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: We talked about Louis La Prince this week, Yes, and 190 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: his fascinating, often sad, super interesting life did not learn 191 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: not to trust his brother in law's ideas. 192 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: Now, but that's okay. 193 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: I saw somebody quoting something Lizzie had written about her 194 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: brother about how he was just not governed by you know, 195 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: sensible sensibleness, but that that's how all great thinkers work, 196 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, Lizzie, you loved him. One 197 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: of the cool things that I wanted to mention is 198 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: that the exposition that Louis la Prince went to with 199 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: the Whitley Foundry he first started working for them in 200 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties was like one of those historical nexus 201 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: points where a bunch of cool stuff is going on 202 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: in one place, which happens with expositions anyway, Right, That's 203 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: where a lot of interesting things are happening. But that 204 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: was also the one where electricity was first showcased. Oh, 205 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: it is the expo that Jules Verne attended and was 206 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: so inspired by what he saw there that he went 207 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: home and wrote twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea, Like 208 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: there were just a lot of people there that we 209 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: now think of as like standard parts of history, and 210 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: there he was I just find that cool. I wish 211 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: that's another use for the time machine. We can go 212 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: to expos that we and just walk around. We mentioned 213 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: only briefly, but it has its own interesting history and 214 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: could potentially maybe be an episode at some point. The 215 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: Morris Jumail Mansion. Oh yeah, that I pronounced wrong, and 216 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: you had to correct me and I had to do 217 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: it over again. I had to look it up because 218 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure so, but it's really interesting. It is 219 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: the oldest home in New York. It was built in 220 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty five, at least the oldest standing. I'm not 221 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: sure if it's the oldest if it was the first one, 222 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: but it's historic and really interesting. George Washington used it 223 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: as one of his sort of meeting places during the 224 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Revolutionary War. It has always been rumored to be haunted. 225 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: It's been, you know, and apparently people try to scare 226 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: Lizzie off of it with that, like don't buy that house, 227 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: it's scared. 228 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: She's like, I don't care. 229 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: We're going to fix it up and make it cool, 230 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: which is sad because her husband never got to see 231 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: all of her efforts in making this amazing home for him, 232 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: and like where they were going to essentially host people 233 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: and show them his cool inventions, like they really thought 234 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: they were on the precipice of changing the world. 235 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: In some ways. 236 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: I do love how close they were and their partnership, 237 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: Like their letters to one another are like the relationship 238 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: everyone wants, right. They seem like best friends. He doesn't 239 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: ever treat her like she is not his equal, like 240 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: he asked her opinion, He trusts her intelligence. They're just 241 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: it's very sweet. Yeah, I love it. Here is one 242 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: my favorite thing I learned while researching this zips Okay, 243 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: it's it's not about Louis le Prince. It's about Louis 244 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: de Guerre. Okay, so we know. I'm sure we've mentioned 245 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: it before on the show, that he was given the 246 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: French Legion of Honor. He apparently wore that medal everywhere. 247 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: That's funny, like for the the rest of his life 248 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: after he received it, you would just see him out 249 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: walking in the village. 250 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: With his metal metals. 251 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: And that is not a small medal, it's a big cross. 252 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: It's very it's very charming to me. But then I 253 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: got to thinking about it. At first, I was like, 254 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: you silly thing, and then I was like, you know what, 255 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: that might be a better way to handle it than 256 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: putting it in a drawer or in a display case 257 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: and only ever, you know, occasionally looking at it. He 258 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: it was his day a jewelry. I'm kind of reminded 259 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: of that time that we ran a race at Disney 260 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: and then walked around with our medals on. You had 261 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: more medals than me because you ran much more than me, 262 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: and they went. But yeah, we just walked around. Everybody 263 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: just walks around with their medals on. It's great, yeah, 264 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: but just for the day, just for the day. Yeah. 265 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: I again, some people will do it for the rest 266 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: of the weekend. But I can't imagine wearing them every 267 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: day for the rest. I just wearing them to the store. Now, 268 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe I should. I have a lot of 269 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: running metals, so I could break those out. You could 270 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: cycle through them as accessories. I'll be like Flave of Flave, 271 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: but with running metals. That'll be my thing. Everybody will know. 272 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: I am almost as fascinated with how badly people want 273 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: to believe Edison put out a hit on Louis Le 274 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: Prince as I am with Louis La Prince himself. Yeah, 275 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: I just there's plenty to criticize about, but I just 276 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: don't envision him as a murderer or. 277 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: A hired hitman employer. 278 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: I think he was capable of being so ruthless, but 279 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: I think the logistics of something like that may have 280 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: been beyond anybody. 281 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 2: Really. 282 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: He wasn't like a mob boss who had a whole 283 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: network of people that you know, could communicate things. And like, 284 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: if you buy into that, you have to somehow implicate 285 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: his brother, because how else would anybody know that he 286 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: missed the morning train and had to take the afternoon train. 287 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: Like they're so like, the logic to me just falls 288 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: apart really fast. Yeah, but I know people love that idea, 289 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of if you read different Louis La 290 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: Prince's biographies or even books about the history of cinema 291 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: that you know, dedicate a section, whether it's like a 292 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: chapter or even just a few paragraphs him. They all 293 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: seem to have their own take on what happened to him, 294 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: and I mean a number of them do kind of 295 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: push forward this Edison idea, and it's very very interesting. 296 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, according to Lizzie's writing, there was a time 297 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: where Louis La Prince debated when they were living in 298 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: New York over like should I put together a pitch 299 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: and go to Edison and tell him what I've done? 300 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: But there's no evidence he ever did that, or that 301 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: he ever had any real contact with him, And so 302 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's somebody out there who's done a deep dive, 303 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: but it's unclear to me at this point if Edison 304 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: even was fully aware of what La Prince was doing. Yeah. Yeah, 305 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: That's the other thing is you don't always know who 306 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: knew what about other people's work, like where they were 307 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: in their progress, because on the one hand, people did 308 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: talk about stuff. On the other that doesn't mean everybody 309 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: got broadcast and knew about everybody else's business. And Louis 310 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: the Prince didn't write stuff down. 311 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, Streets. 312 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: When we were talking about his disappearance and like getting 313 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: in touch with his brother to try to find out 314 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: what happened, I was thinking about how I am often 315 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: kind of frustrated by the ability to be contacted at 316 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: any moment all the time, and the torrent of information 317 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: that we are sort of having a heart at us 318 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: at all times. But I am grateful to live at 319 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: a time where when there is an emergency, it's possible 320 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: to at least reach someone's voicemail immediately, not the same 321 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: situation as needing to reach a brother in France to 322 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: find out what happened at the time that we were 323 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, there are several moments where I one 324 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: of my many takeaways was that Lizzie Leprince was an 325 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: incredibly resilient woman, right because when Louis decided, like I 326 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: have to go to France and fight, like they had 327 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: a baby of their own who was just a. 328 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: Few months old and she didn't know if he was 329 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 2: living or dead. 330 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: There is a story that she got at least one, 331 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: maybe more weird letter from him, and the weird is 332 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: not the letter, it's like how it landed in her 333 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: possession where there was a balloon that had been smuggled 334 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: out of France that contained a like a. 335 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: Batch of letters. 336 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: But that balloon went down over the ocean and some 337 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: of the letters were recovered from the water, right, and 338 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: she got one of those, but it. 339 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 2: Only had like his name. 340 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: I think it was like the date and his name 341 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: and where he was and she could make out his signature, 342 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: but like none of the actual information it conveyed was 343 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: in there. I don't know if that's better or worse 344 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: to get that when you don't know what's going on 345 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: with your loved one. Yeah, and she didn't hear him 346 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: again until he was like, Okay, we're wrapped up, I'm 347 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: coming home. And then when he went back to Europe 348 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: for what they thought was probably going to be a 349 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: few months, and he stayed for three years while she 350 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: took care of the kids and he wasn't making money 351 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: to send back to her. Like, I don't know how 352 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: exactly she survived. I presume her parents probably helped her 353 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: because they were in a better financial position, but like, 354 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: that's a long time. She was a single mom, essentially 355 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: in a city where they had been living for a 356 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: while at that point, but like she was not native 357 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: to she just had to be really resilient. 358 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: She seems amazing. 359 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 360 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: Also, she was beautiful. 361 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: I've seen one photograph of her and I was like, 362 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it's like them with 363 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: their kids who were like in early adulthood. Oh sure, 364 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: And I got real confused because Lizzie looks as young 365 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,239 Speaker 1: as the kids, and I'm just like, she's a good 366 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: jeedshit really. She was very pretty, she's very youthful, she's 367 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: very smart. 368 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: I love that. 369 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: Like to her, the most fulfilling thing was working at 370 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: a school for the deaf and introducing art to those 371 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: kind of curricula, which was not something that was prioritized 372 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: at the time in a lot of places. 373 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 2: She just seems cool. More Lizzy please, damn more Lizzie please. Anyway. 374 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: Cinema history the thing that I mentioned briefly in the episode, 375 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: and I didn't name the person's name because I don't 376 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: want to that. I was like, this might also be 377 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: an episode has nothing to do with film. You'll be 378 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: happy to know, Okay. I do love talking about early 379 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: film history, but that one is it's home deck and 380 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: it's completely different. Fingers crossed. I can find enough nice. 381 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm really into weird inventions lately, so get ready, get Ready. 382 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: Not necessarily weird, but like stuff that's commonplace to us, 383 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: that like if we don't even think about where did 384 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: that come from? 385 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: Did it fly through the air and land here? I 386 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 2: almost said like a bar. 387 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: Of soap, which is the most deep cut tom Waite's 388 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: reference I could ever make. It's like a reference to 389 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: an interview he did like years ago, where he said 390 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: songs to him seemed like they just sometimes flew in 391 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: from outer space and landed like a bar of soap, 392 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, that's a great way to describe 393 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: how a song comes to be. Anyway, I just made 394 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: a perplexed face because I did not get the reference 395 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: at all. No, I would not expect anybody too. I mean, 396 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: it's a weird deep cut. That's one of those things 397 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 1: that to me seems very normal. I say it all 398 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: the time to myself. Nobody else knows what I'm talking about. 399 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: It's fine in any case. 400 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: If this is your weekend coming up and you go 401 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: to the movies, thank the people like Louis, the Prince 402 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: and everyone else who was trying to figure out how 403 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: to capture motion pictures. 404 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: It's all very cool. 405 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: If you don't go to the movies, I still hope 406 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: you do something so fun. I hope you eat something 407 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: incredibly delicious. Right now, I'm craving peanut butter toast for 408 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: no reason. But doesn't that sound like push away the 409 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: gourmand food. I want peanut butter toast. I don't know 410 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: what that's about. You crave what you crave. I hope 411 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: that you have RESTful times that you're able to find 412 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: moments of peace and joy. I hope if you have 413 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: things that you have to do, responsibilities, that you still 414 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: make the best of them and they aren't too taxing 415 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: and you don't feel burned out by them, and that 416 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: everybody is kind to one another because we need it desperately. 417 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: We will have something brand new on Monday to talk about, 418 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: and tomorrow we will have a classic. Stuff you missed 419 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 420 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever 421 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.