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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 2: They're talking about a truce and this is a pretty

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Speaker 2: big deal. As we left off yesterday with the prospect

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Speaker 2: of the meeting between President Trump and Vladimir Putin, they

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Speaker 2: said the next few days. Remember, logistics details were being finalized.

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Speaker 2: We do not have news yet on a date or

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Speaker 2: even venue for a meeting, but it does look like

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Speaker 2: the gears are turning here with important news on the

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg terminal. Washington and Moscow now aiming to reach a

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Speaker 2: deal to halt the war in Ukraine. They're talking about

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Speaker 2: a truce that would involve basically freezing the lines in place, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, see like a total deal breaker just

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Speaker 2: weeks ago for Ukraine. Freezing the lines in place, the

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Speaker 2: land that Russia has occupied would basically be the new map.

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Speaker 2: And there is no reason to bet right now that

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Speaker 2: this is going to happen, but we want to wait

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Speaker 2: into these waters with Courtney McBride, our national security reporter

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Speaker 2: here in Washington, with a couple of stories to hit

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Speaker 2: because we've got big news happening in the Middle East

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Speaker 2: as well. Courtney, it's great to have you back in

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Speaker 2: Washington here. The idea that we're talking a truce before

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Speaker 2: these two even meet would suggest some real progress behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes.

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Speaker 3: What do we know, Well, certainly a special envoye. Steve Witkoff,

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Speaker 3: went to Russia, and you know the President has said

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Speaker 3: that that was a productive meeting and that he is

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Speaker 3: eager to move things forward. So you know, it's unclear

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Speaker 3: as of yet exactly what kind of lines we're talking about,

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Speaker 3: but it does seem from our reporting that it could

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Speaker 3: be particularly disadvantageous to Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it sure sounds like it. And if it sounded

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Speaker 2: like a deal breaker a couple of weeks ago, could

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Speaker 2: it still be When Volamias Zelenski is presented with freezing

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Speaker 2: lines in place, all the land that was lost is

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Speaker 2: officially gone, what will be his response?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's unclear. You know, Zelenski has proven

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Speaker 3: willing to make some concessions in an effort to get

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Speaker 3: this moving and to halt the killing, as President Trump

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Speaker 3: has said, but you know, it's unclear that a trilateral

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Speaker 3: meeting would even happen among the three leaders. President Trump

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Speaker 3: has said he's he's willing to meet with President Putin

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Speaker 3: even if Putin doesn't agree to meet with Zelenski. But

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Speaker 3: you know, everyone has to agree to move forward, and

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Speaker 3: as of right now, it's unclear.

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Speaker 2: So it becomes a question of how bad do you

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Speaker 2: want to end this war? I mean, you would hand

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Speaker 2: over the entire Dawn Boss to Russia under this construct.

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Speaker 2: What do we know about a meeting? It seemed like

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Speaker 2: we were on the verge of something yesterday, but it

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Speaker 2: was largely the Kremlin filling in the blanks. What are

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Speaker 2: we hearing from the administration.

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Speaker 3: Certainly, I mean the you know, the the administration has

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Speaker 3: said that that something could happen in short order, but we,

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Speaker 3: as you said, we don't know dates, we don't know venues.

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Speaker 3: The Kremlin has said that a venue has been selected,

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Speaker 3: but you know, we're all waiting with bated breath to

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Speaker 3: see what happens.

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Speaker 2: Presidents seem to oscillate between this idea of forcing a

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Speaker 2: meeting between Putin and Zelenski first or having them all

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Speaker 2: three at the same table trilateral talks, or maybe not

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Speaker 2: at all until there's a deal. The President at first

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Speaker 2: said that would be required. Now he says I'll do

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Speaker 2: anything to stop the war. It sounds to me like

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Speaker 2: Volatimer Zelenski may not be invited to that first session.

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Speaker 3: Well, that is certainly a concern, and you know, he

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Speaker 3: obviously wants to have a seat at the table. And

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Speaker 3: you know it's unclear that Ukraine will be able to

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Speaker 3: make its voice heard if it's not even in the room.

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Speaker 2: Well, keep this in mind, because this is developing. It

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Speaker 2: could develop before our eyes today. With our eyes on

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Speaker 2: the headlines here we have to cover what's happening in

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Speaker 2: the Middle East. As Israel approves a proposal to occupy

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Speaker 2: Gaza City. This is a very important development. Here's Benjamin

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Speaker 2: Netanya who on Fox News expressing his intentions to occupy

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Speaker 2: the full Gaza strip.

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Speaker 4: We intend to in order to assure our security, remove

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Speaker 4: Ramas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza

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Speaker 4: and to pass it to civilian governance that is not

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Speaker 4: Tramas and not anyone advocating the destruction of visual That's

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Speaker 4: what we want to do.

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Speaker 2: Important distinction here he wanted to initially have a military

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Speaker 2: occupation of the entire Gaza Strip. It's now Gaza City.

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Speaker 2: But even this sort of smaller footprint is getting some

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Speaker 2: opposition withinside Netanya, Who's government. Remarkable to see the chief

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Speaker 2: of staff from the IDF tell that Benjamin Netanya who

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Speaker 2: he was walking into a trap in a recent meeting.

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Speaker 2: How is this going to unfold?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's it's unclear. There's certainly a lot

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Speaker 3: of pressure and criticism on Prime Minister Netanyao, both from

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Speaker 3: inside Israel and from the international community, that this is

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Speaker 3: escalatory and you know that it will only only lead

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Speaker 3: to more destruction. Families of the hostages still held by

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Speaker 3: Hamas are also concerned that this is, you know, incredibly

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Speaker 3: dangerous for.

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Speaker 5: Their loved ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something. The goal they see is to evacuate

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Speaker 2: all Palestinian civilians from Gaza City by October seventh. Do

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Speaker 2: we know where they would go?

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Speaker 3: I mean that that is unclear at this stage. You know,

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Speaker 3: Natanyahu has said that he has no interest in occupying

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Speaker 3: Gaza or ruling Gaza over the long term, that the

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Speaker 3: eventual plan is to turn it over to an Arab force.

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Speaker 3: But you know, that is that is down the line.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like we've got a lot to learn still, Courtney,

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Speaker 2: Thank you as always, Courtney McBride. Covering national security here

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Speaker 2: in Washington, we do have opportunities, by the way, to

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Speaker 2: hear from the President today. He's got the leaders of

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Speaker 2: Armenian Azerbaijan arriving at the White House couple of hours

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Speaker 2: from now, and there will be stages of public events

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Speaker 2: through the day according to the President's schedule here, giving

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Speaker 2: him some opportunities to maybe make some news on this front,

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Speaker 2: never mind finding peace between those two nations, which is

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Speaker 2: the point of their visit today following eight years long,

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Speaker 2: decades long across border skirmish.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, You're on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 2: Always a pleasure to meet you. At the threshold of

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Speaker 2: the weekend. It does feel like it a bit in

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Speaker 2: Washington where things are kind of quiet, but soon we'll

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Speaker 2: have some activity at the White House, as the leaders

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Speaker 2: of Armenia and Azerbaijan join President Trump today for a

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Speaker 2: series of events that'll walk us through the afternoon, culminating

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Speaker 2: with a trilateral signing of a peace agreement. That is

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Speaker 2: the way the President will be wrapping his week with

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Speaker 2: big news on Russia and Ukraine. This will likely dominate

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Speaker 2: our conversations next week, and it's already played a pretty

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Speaker 2: big role in this one, even as reciprocal tariffs took

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Speaker 2: effect along with so many other things. This is the day,

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Speaker 2: by the way, that secondary tariffs were intended to take effect,

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Speaker 2: according to the President of the United States, secondary tariffs

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Speaker 2: against nations buying oiled from Russia. But Bloomberg has been

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Speaker 2: doing some remarkable reporting here. According to people familiar with

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Speaker 2: the matter, Washington and Moscow are now aiming to reach

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Speaker 2: a deal to halt the war, and they're even using

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Speaker 2: the word truce here toward an agreement on territories for

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Speaker 2: the planned summit that we expect in the days ahead

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Speaker 2: between President Trump and Vladimir Putin. They say this could

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Speaker 2: happen as early as next week. This is very unclear

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Speaker 2: right now in terms of timing and venue, but the

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Speaker 2: spirit of this deal might be a non starter for

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Speaker 2: Vladimir Zelensky, as it would demand Ukraine's seed its entire

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Speaker 2: eastern Donbass region as well as Crimea, and essentially freeze

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Speaker 2: in place the lines that have been the subject of

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Speaker 2: this war of attrition for so long. It's where we

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Speaker 2: start our conversation with Wendy Sherman. Always a delight to

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Speaker 2: have the former Deputy Secretary of State and the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration now joint Senior Fellow with the Belfer Center Center

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Speaker 2: for Public Leadership at Harvard University. Wendy, it's great to

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Speaker 2: have you back on Bloomberg TV and radio. When you

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Speaker 2: consider this potential deal as the way I just described it,

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Speaker 2: freezing the lines in place, is that something that Ukraine

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Speaker 2: will accept?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think, first of all, congratulations to Bloomberg on

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Speaker 6: gathering such important information. If indeed these are the outlines

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Speaker 6: of possible at least stopping the tremendous bombardment of Ukraine

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Speaker 6: with so many lives lost, I think we all would

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Speaker 6: welcome a cease fire. But it's not only about territory,

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Speaker 6: which will be suspect. It's how do you guarantee enforcement

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Speaker 6: of those lines, how do you make sure that Russia

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Speaker 6: doesn't go further? Does Russia also require that the Ukraine

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Speaker 6: not join the European Union, not join NATO? That In

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Speaker 6: the past, Putin has said that Ukraine must demilitarize. I

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Speaker 6: can't imagine Zelensky doing that. And although Ukrainian people are

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Speaker 6: war weary for a very good reason and really wish

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Speaker 6: this horrible war would be over, this horrific illegal invasion,

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Speaker 6: it does remain to be seen not only whether Zelensky

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Speaker 6: will accept this and Ukraine as a whole, but whether Europe,

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Speaker 6: which will have to enforce this future and NATO will

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Speaker 6: accept it.

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Speaker 2: You wonder what kind of message we're sending here, realizing

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Speaker 2: that parts of the don Yatsky and Lahansky and under

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Speaker 2: Russian occupation since twenty fourteen illegally Putin declared the four

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian regions to be forever part of Russia when he

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Speaker 2: announced the annexation back in twenty twenty two, even though

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Speaker 2: he's never actually controlled these territories. So this deal would

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Speaker 2: codify this arrangement, and you tell me it would not

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Speaker 2: tell other nations to try to do the same.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think This would be a terrible outcome, as

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Speaker 6: you say, not only for Ukraine, but it would also

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Speaker 6: say that other leaders can take territory, perhaps Shishingping take

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Speaker 6: Taiwan with impunity, that others around the world could take

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Speaker 6: territory with impunity. That sovereignty, territorial integrity, the right of

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Speaker 6: countries to make their own choices would go by the wayside.

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Speaker 6: So I think there's a lot of detail here. It's

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Speaker 6: one thing to say to get a ceasefire, to stop

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Speaker 6: the bombardment, things freeze in place, but then to get

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Speaker 6: a final peace agreement. I cannot imagine Ukraine deciding that

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Speaker 6: it's going to forever give up this territory and say

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Speaker 6: that it belongs to Russia. We have never said that

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Speaker 6: Primea belongs to Russia, that they in fact legally own Crimea.

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Speaker 6: I can't imagine we will do this for the don

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Speaker 6: Bas either. I think it's important, too, Joe, for your

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Speaker 6: listeners to understand that all of this. Of course, we

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Speaker 6: want peace to break out around the world. But President

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Speaker 6: Trump has said he could deal with this on day one.

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Speaker 6: He said he could solve the Middle East on day one,

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Speaker 6: and we have a real crisis of starvation in Gaza

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Speaker 6: and a Prime Minister who now wants to go all

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Speaker 6: in and taking Gaza City, putting the hostages at risk.

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Speaker 6: We have yes, this meeting at the White House today

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Speaker 6: between Armenia and Iserbaijan, and that it may mean that

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Speaker 6: a transit route will get named after President Trump. Everybody

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Speaker 6: knows how to flatter him to try to get what

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Speaker 6: they want, but it won't in essence, really resolve Naguerno Karabak,

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Speaker 6: which is at the heart of the conflict between Armenia

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Speaker 6: and Iserbaijan. It also will not be something that Russia

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Speaker 6: much likes. And then, of course we've got these tariffs

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Speaker 6: that are supposed to come in secondary tariffs on India

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Speaker 6: at the end of this month. That's all leverage in

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Speaker 6: getting to an agreement on Ukraine. So the President has

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Speaker 6: thrown a lot at all of us, and I think

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Speaker 6: some of this is to make sure that we don't

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Speaker 6: keep talking about that really nasty problem he's got in

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Speaker 6: front of him called the release of the Epstein files.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you just married a whole bunch of stories there, Wendy.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't heard about this, This trade route named for Trump.

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Speaker 2: This is fascinating as I read here the agreement between

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Speaker 2: the two nations would create the Trump route for international

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Speaker 2: peace and prosperity. So that's that's how it's done. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to ask you about what's happening in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East in just a moment, but I want to just

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Speaker 2: get your take as a professional diplomat on this back

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Speaker 2: and forth over who should be in the meeting. At

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Speaker 2: one point, President Trump said that Zelenski and Putin must

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Speaker 2: first meet. Then he said maybe the three of them

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Speaker 2: would meet together, And now he has walked that back

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Speaker 2: to suggest that he's willing to meet with Putin alone,

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Speaker 2: having said that, quote, I don't like long waits. They

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Speaker 2: would like to meet with me, and I will do

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Speaker 2: whatever I can to stop the killing unquote. If Zelenski

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Speaker 2: is not in the room, what good is this?

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Speaker 6: Well, it certainly won't get us to a peace agreement,

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Speaker 6: that's for sure. And you know, the President is a

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Speaker 6: very transactional negotiator. But what I find very interesting is

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Speaker 6: he often gives up leverage in advance, trying to incentivize

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Speaker 6: people to come to the table. He's doing that with Putin.

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Speaker 6: Putin very much wants this meeting so he can look

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Speaker 6: like he's in charge he's defining what will happen here.

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Speaker 6: I think Zelenski felt he'd gotten further with the President

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Speaker 6: when they met on the margins of the Pope's funeral.

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Speaker 6: But my guess is right now he's in a pretty

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Speaker 6: nervous place. And the President spoke to the leaders of

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Speaker 6: Europe with Zelensky on the phone, to talk about what

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Speaker 6: might be happening here. But details are never Trump's strong suit.

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Speaker 6: Most of these tariff deals, as you all know better

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Speaker 6: than I do, are really quite broad decisions without all

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Speaker 6: of the details really being inked, without any of us

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Speaker 6: really knowing what's going to happen over the long term.

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Speaker 6: We've seen that in dust up with Japan. I'm sure

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Speaker 6: we will see that with others as well.

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Speaker 2: I'll be deeply curious to hear if President Trump weighs

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Speaker 2: in on Israel's decision to occupy Gaza City. He does have,

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Speaker 2: as I mentioned, some public opportunities here to speak today,

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Speaker 2: but it's important Israel's Security Council approving a plan to occupy,

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Speaker 2: militarily occupy Gaza City as opposed to all of the

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Speaker 2: Gaza Strip. Is it possible to defeat hamas as Israel

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Speaker 2: is suggesting without endangering the hostages that are the whole

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Speaker 2: point of this conflict.

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Speaker 6: Sadly, Joe, I don't think so. The IDF, in fact

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Speaker 6: said during this ten hour overnight discussion in the Israeli

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Speaker 6: security Cabinet that they could not say that the hostages

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Speaker 6: would remain alive. They also said there would be many

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Speaker 6: more deaths of IDF as well as civilians. Nonetheless, the

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Speaker 6: security Cabinet decided to go ahead. This has been roundly

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Speaker 6: condemned all over the world, and quite extraordinarily, the Chancellor

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Speaker 6: of Germany has said that no military weapons will go

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Speaker 6: to Israel that might be used in Gaza as a

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Speaker 6: result of this decision. I haven't found anyone yet who

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Speaker 6: supports what the Prime Minister is doing, except for his

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Speaker 6: very very right wing coalition partners who want to see

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Speaker 6: Israel a takeover pretty much everything, including the West Bank.

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Speaker 2: We're showing some pretty horrifying images of Palestinians who are

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Speaker 2: starving trying to access food. And part of this plan

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Speaker 2: would include the IDF providing humanitarian aid to civilians outside

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Speaker 2: of combat zones as they enter Gaza City. It is

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Speaker 2: unclear what these combat zones will be though. In the

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Speaker 2: camps that will be created in other areas to house

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Speaker 2: refuge ease Wen, do you know how complicated this type

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Speaker 2: of planning can be. I'm just curious, drawing on your

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Speaker 2: experience in the Biden administration. President Biden did Secretary of

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Speaker 2: State Anthony Blinkin ever envision this going on for so long?

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Speaker 6: This has just been horrifying, as I believe. Even President

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Speaker 6: Trump has reportedly said to Prime Mister Netanyahu in a

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Speaker 6: phone conversation, don't tell me it's fake This is Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump saying this is not fake news. You can just

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Speaker 6: look at the pictures and see that they're starving people.

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Speaker 6: For more people died of starvation today, including two children.

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Speaker 6: The IDF has said it will take until I think

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Speaker 6: at least October to get everybody out of Gaza City

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Speaker 6: and find places for them to go. There's no housing

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Speaker 6: in any of Gaza except some remaining in Gaza City,

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Speaker 6: so where people will live is not known. You cannot

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Speaker 6: feed this many people with one aid station. You have

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Speaker 6: to have many AID stations so that you don't have

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Speaker 6: people dying as they get stampeded trying to find food.

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Speaker 6: It is a tragedy that USAID is gone. USAID knew

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Speaker 6: how to do this. We had the expertise. We've done

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Speaker 6: it all over the world. We know how to set

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Speaker 6: up these humanitarian carters and aid stations. The current foundation

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Speaker 6: that's doing this really doesn't know how to do this.

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Speaker 6: And there were months when Israel would not allow in

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Speaker 6: any food. So we are in a very terrible place,

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Speaker 6: and with this new effort to take over Gaza City,

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Speaker 6: things are even worse.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I was just going to say that

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Speaker 2: the World Food Program knows how to do this too.

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Speaker 2: Cindy McKain knows how to do this, but they've told

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Speaker 2: us that they won't be allowed in. So will this

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Speaker 2: occupation change that.

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Speaker 6: I don't see how. And the Prime Minister has sort

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Speaker 6: of pulled back a little bit today, not saying they're

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Speaker 6: going to occupy Gaza, because if they occupy Gaza legally,

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Speaker 6: then they are responsible to making sure that everybody's fed

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Speaker 6: and housed. So they are saying that they are going

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Speaker 6: to really just get rid of Hamas, demilitarize Gaza, get

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Speaker 6: Arab states to come in and take care of Gaza.

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Speaker 6: But as others have said, I cannot imagine Arab states

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Speaker 6: coming in behind the guns of Israel. To take care

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Speaker 6: of Palestinians, and Saudi Arabia, among other countries, has denounced

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Speaker 6: this plan today.

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Speaker 2: Wendy, I'm really glad you could join us and bringing

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Speaker 2: your experience to our conversation here on Balance of Power.

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Speaker 2: Wendy Sherman's former Deputy Secretary of State in the Biden administration,

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Speaker 2: Senior Fellow the Belfast Center and Center for Public Leadership

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Speaker 2: at Harvard University.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: almal Coarckley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: You're in the capital city, which is in itself in

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Speaker 2: the news. Maybe you're coming down for a little vacation.

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Speaker 2: Visit the Smithsonian tour of the monuments this summer. If

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Speaker 2: you do, you will likely see a lot more police

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Speaker 2: than you may have otherwise. And when I say that,

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Speaker 2: I mean federal police alongside DC Metro cops. The President

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Speaker 2: of the United States is making this request and it's

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Speaker 2: already happening. This deployment was ordered today at twelve oh

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Speaker 2: one am, including law enforcement officers from a wide swath

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Speaker 2: of agencies across the federal government. Immigration police tasked with deepportations.

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Speaker 2: We've got the FBI here, us Marshall's DEA, and as

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Speaker 2: the Washington Post reports, twelve other federal agencies. That's a

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Speaker 2: lot of police cruisers. And they say that this will

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Speaker 2: be very noticeable in the high traffic tourist areas. So

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Speaker 2: as I say, if you're coming to the Smithsonian, if

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Speaker 2: you're crossing the mall, if you're anywhere around us here

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Speaker 2: at Bloomberg, you're probably going to notice the difference. And

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Speaker 2: this is something the President has talked about before. He

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Speaker 2: has described our capital city as being filthy and dirty

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Speaker 2: and violent and crime ridden, and he has threatened to

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Speaker 2: federalize the city as a result, most recently prompted by

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Speaker 2: the assault of a DOGE worker that led to the

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Speaker 2: arrests of a couple of teenagers.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 2: This individual, Edward Korstein, who was one of Elon Musk's

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Speaker 2: top lieutenants at the DOGE, known affectionately online as big Balls,

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Speaker 2: was beaten badly after he tried to help a woman

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Speaker 2: who being carjacked. According to what the President said, here's

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump from earlier.

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Speaker 7: By the way, I have to say that somebody from

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Speaker 7: Doze was very badly hurt last night. You saw that

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Speaker 7: a young man who was beat up by a bunch

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Speaker 7: of thugs in DC. And either they're going to straighten

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Speaker 7: their act out in the terms of government and in

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Speaker 7: terms of protection, or we're going to have to federalize

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Speaker 7: and run it the way it's supposed to be run.

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Speaker 2: It's a similar political panel. They both know a lot

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Speaker 2: about Washington, d C. And I'll preface this by telling

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Speaker 2: you that it is actually a city that we don't

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Speaker 2: only live and work in, but a place that we love.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributed Republican strategist and partner at

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Speaker 2: Stone Court Capital, alongside Geenie Shanze no Bloomberg Politics contributor,

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Speaker 2: Senior Democracy Fellow with the Center for the Study of

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Speaker 2: the Presidency in Congress. Rick, there's always something wrong with

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Speaker 2: a city, and you can always, I guess, clean a

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Speaker 2: city more and make it safer. But the fact is,

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Speaker 2: when we look at DC crime statistics for this year

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, we find that all crime is actually down.

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Speaker 2: The President said it was way up. It's down seven percent.

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Speaker 2: From the year earlier. Violent crime is down twenty six

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Speaker 2: percent and assault with a weapon is down twenty percent.

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Speaker 2: Do we need to federalize Washington d C.

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Speaker 5: Well, the city can always be safer, and the one

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Speaker 5: I live in should be the safest. So I'm for safety.

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Speaker 5: And we've lived here a long time and the city

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Speaker 5: has gone through various levels of crime, sometimes being the

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Speaker 5: nation's murder capital and sometimes not. And I think it's

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Speaker 5: great that we're experiencing a downturning crime, but you can

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Speaker 5: never be diligent enough. And I don't begrudge the president

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Speaker 5: for a show of force. There have been some very

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Speaker 5: high profile murders and robberies and assaults recently that have

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Speaker 5: made front page news and most newspapers around the country,

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Speaker 5: and that's no way for our nation's capital to look

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Speaker 5: to the rest of the world and to the rest

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Speaker 5: of our country. So it'll be interesting to see how

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Speaker 5: long this lasts or where it ultimately goes. I can't

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Speaker 5: imagine a scenario where the federal government wants to run

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Speaker 5: a city. They're good at a lot of things, but

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Speaker 5: city management may or may not be a skill set.

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Speaker 5: And so if this is a shawforce to reduce crime.

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Speaker 5: I'm for it. If it's something beyond that. You really

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Speaker 5: want to think about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, we have come a long way, obviously since the

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, when a lot of people did refer to

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Speaker 2: this city as the murder capital of the world. To

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Speaker 2: your point, Rick, back in the days of Mayor Mary

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Speaker 2: and Barry going all the way up through COVID and

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Speaker 2: some of the problems that Washington had keeping things safe

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Speaker 2: and keeping things clean. At this point, though, we've had

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Speaker 2: a massive amount of money invested in this town. We've

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Speaker 2: seen people come from all over the world to create

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Speaker 2: a very diverse community who lives here side by side

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Speaker 2: with people who grew up in Washington, d C. All

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Speaker 2: of that said, Genie, we should separate these two concepts. Okay,

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Speaker 2: make the city safer with the help of federal law

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Speaker 2: enforcement as opposed to federalizing the city and having the

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Speaker 2: federal government run Washington, d C. Which do you want

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Speaker 2: to see?

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Speaker 8: I want to thank the President for not using that

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Speaker 8: young man's nickname when he spoke about him. I was

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Speaker 8: very grateful for that, and it was horrific what happened

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Speaker 8: to that young man, just nineteen years old. That said,

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Speaker 8: the commitment to federalizing DC is a longstanding commitment by

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump and the GOP. Overall, the Republican Party's platform

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Speaker 8: in twenty twenty four had this in it. It has

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Speaker 8: long been discussed by Donald Trump. And so what we

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Speaker 8: seem to be seeing, given the crime numbers that you

436
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 8: talked about rightly so, is that he is using this

437
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 8: in order to pursue an agenda that he has long

438
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 8: been pursuing, which is to criticize cities run by Democrats,

439
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 8: to say they are violent, and to threaten to take

440
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 8: them over. And so, yes, I agree with Rick. I

441
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 8: think every thinking person does. Everyone wants any community to

442
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 8: be safer. But since when does the Republican Party believe

443
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 8: that they are better off putting the federal government in

444
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 8: to do something at the ground rather than leaving it

445
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 8: to the state and the well in this case, the

446
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 8: local community. And so I think there is a bit

447
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 8: of hypocrisy there. We've also seen, by the way, just

448
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 8: this session in Congress, we saw a Senator and a

449
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 8: representative introduced legislation to repeal the Home Rule, which is

450
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 8: another thing Donald Trump wants to do. So it's a

451
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 8: long standing commitment of Donald Trump's and it seemed to

452
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 8: be triggered by this horrific violence we saw the other day.

453
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 8: But the numbers don't support it.

454
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: A lot of people who don't live here may not

455
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: realize this whole idea of home home rule is actually

456
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: a relatively recent one for the people of Washington, d C.

457
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: And remains a controversial one. You see people driving around

458
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: with the license plate it says taxation without representation. I

459
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: remember when Tony Williams put that into effects. Home rule

460
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: was passed in nineteen seventy three.

461
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 4: Rick.

462
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: If the president really wanted to federalize the city, it

463
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: would take an Act of Congress to overturn the Home

464
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 2: Rule Act. We can't even write a budget around here.

465
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: Could that happen well, on a.

466
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 5: Straight line party vote, Yeah, you probably could, although I

467
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 5: think you'd find a lot of Republicans echoing what Genie

468
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 5: just said, which is, what in orld are we going

469
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 5: to do running a city? You know, I thought we

470
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 5: were for, you know, the federal government getting out of

471
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 5: the nitty gritty of our community. So I think there's

472
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 5: an ideological issue there, but there is a political issue too,

473
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 5: And I think this is one of the things that

474
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is sort of giving us a head fake

475
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 5: on We talked a lot in the height of the

476
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 5: presidential campaign about what a poor job the Democrats have

477
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 5: done in these cities to manage the rhetoric around crime

478
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 5: and why it should be an issue that Democrats own,

479
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 5: and yet they virtually abdicated it to the Republicans. And

480
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 5: if there are issues that you want to go to

481
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 5: to try and get some of these suburban congressional districts

482
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 5: to flip from Democrat to Republican, you're going to go

483
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 5: to the crime playbook. Law and order is a tried

484
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 5: and true political device that Donald Trump is used in

485
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 5: the past, and I believe is starting to headfake toward

486
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 5: his way to doing that again for the twenty twenty

487
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 5: sixth election.

488
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: There are some other changes coming to the city that

489
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: don't involve law enforcement. Genie, a statue of the Confederate

490
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: General Albert Pike is apparently making its return to a

491
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: location near Judiciary Square, and that is that's right downtown.

492
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: If you're a tourist, you walk right by it near

493
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Avenue. The National Park Service announced that just this week,

494
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: remembering it was torn down by protesters in twenty twenty. Also,

495
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: a large Confederate memorial is being put back in Arlington

496
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: National Cemetery. Pete Hegseth, the Defense Secretary, made this announcement today,

497
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: having been removed in twenty twenty three as part of

498
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: a congressional attempt to remove Confederate imagery from military sites.

499
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: What will this mean for the culture in Washington anything.

500
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 8: I think what we're seeing is quite frankly, Donald Trump

501
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 8: focusing on law and order, as Rick just talked about,

502
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 8: and revitalizing these cultural issues that have worked for the

503
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 8: Republican Party to get their base out. And I think

504
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 8: he is doing that in the wake of some really

505
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 8: troubling jobs numbers that he obviously was very concerned about,

506
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 8: the tariff war and uncertain economic issues. He is trying

507
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 8: to refocus attention as he thinks forward to the midterm

508
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 8: on these law and order and culture issues. And so

509
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 8: I think we're going to see more and more of this,

510
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 8: not just in d C. And you gave so many

511
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 8: good examples of that, Joe, but I think around the

512
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 8: country to remind people of an issue that worked well

513
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 8: for the Republicans in twenty twenty and has for a

514
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 8: long time about the far left, which we're talking about

515
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 8: the MAGA, But you look at the far left wing

516
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 8: of the Democratic Party and some of the ways in

517
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 8: which they've gone to extremes on culture issues. So I

518
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 8: think that's what we're seeing here, and I think it's

519
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 8: going to be important for people in d C, for

520
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 8: whom some of these issues remind them of the reality

521
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 8: that they don't have the ability to have full autonomy

522
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 8: in terms of their governance and representation in the federal government,

523
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 8: and that's always been troubling for them.

524
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: The President had called for the return of federal monuments

525
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: that had been quote inappropriately removed unquote from Washington, DC.

526
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: The city's congressional delegate Eleanor Holle Norton Rick is going

527
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: to be reintroducing ability to ensure that the Pike statue

528
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: is permanently removed. We've only got a about a minute left.

529
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: We just see this kind of back and forth over

530
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: these cultural symbols for the rest of this president's term.

531
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is just another flare up of the sort

532
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 5: of woke attacks that have been going on for some time.

533
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 5: First of all, you should never tear down statues. You

534
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: should go through a process. You know, this gut out

535
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 5: of control. And now the pendulum swings back the other way.

536
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 5: Military bases are being renamed after being changed, you know,

537
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 5: and these statues are going up. So it's the breathing

538
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 5: in and out of power, and in this case, outgoes

539
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 5: the woke, incomes, you know, the Trump administration.

540
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: I guess that's it, Rick. Thank you, Rick Davis and

541
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano. Always a fascinating conversation. They'll be back on

542
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: the late edition of Ballants of Power, which of course

543
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: starts at five pm Eastern. Thank you both. Thanks for

544
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: listening to the Bolence of Power podcast. Make sure to

545
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever

546
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you can find us live

547
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot

548
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: com