Speaker 1: I am all in. Oh, just you, I am all in?
Speaker 1: What Scott Patterson and I Heart Radio podcast? Everybody? Uh,
Speaker 1: I am Scott Patterson and this is the I Am
Speaker 1: all in podcast from my Heart Radio. We are going
Speaker 1: to We got an email from a fan, a woman
Speaker 1: named Kim down in Dallas, Texas, and she happens to
Speaker 1: be um a therapist. You know, we want to get
Speaker 1: into it with her and and kind of break down,
Speaker 1: you know, the episode and and sort of look a
Speaker 1: little deeper under the hood into what is making these
Speaker 1: characters tick and and why they're imperfect. And you know,
Speaker 1: maybe we can sort of change the oil or tightness
Speaker 1: screw here and there, you know, for your advocation or
Speaker 1: for our own, and see why these characters are imperfect
Speaker 1: and why they're interacting in the way that they're interacting
Speaker 1: and reacting and overreacting and underreacting, you know, all kinds
Speaker 1: of psychobabble, and it's it's just gonna be a fun
Speaker 1: exploration with Kim. Yeah, it's a little therapy session. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a little therapy session. I think it's a
Speaker 1: good idea to do that every once in a while
Speaker 1: on the podcast, Kim help me with my max obsession.
Speaker 1: You know, I need to just relax and be free
Speaker 1: of it. But um you know, I I you know,
Speaker 1: I got to be true to how I feel. I'm
Speaker 1: really feeling these things. So it's it's really not a
Speaker 1: therapy session for me. It's it's it's really for us
Speaker 1: to sort of dissect, you know, why these what makes
Speaker 1: these characters tick. And I think I think it's really
Speaker 1: fascinating because these are very very complex, um uh and
Speaker 1: deeply drawn characters. I mean, these are not your average
Speaker 1: TV characters. So there's a lot going on here, a
Speaker 1: lot of generational stuff, a lot of conflict, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna put our little brains together and form
Speaker 1: a little rock pile and see if we can figure
Speaker 1: it out. And is she is she waiting? She's in
Speaker 1: the waiting room. Okay, let's bring her in. Hey, Kim, Kim,
Speaker 1: lay it on us, because this is a little debate
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to have. Okay, so what exactly I'm
Speaker 1: And I think I'm nervous too, I'm like, am I am? I? Am?
Speaker 1: I debating because I want to say this. This is
Speaker 1: not to negate nor minimize Luke's feelings towards her towards
Speaker 1: this mocking behavior. So because the feelings are the feeling,
Speaker 1: so I always want to know from a therapist. So
Speaker 1: feelings are big, um, so, so this is not to
Speaker 1: negate so and so if if it's if it's hurtful,
Speaker 1: it's hurtful. But I'm just wondering if there's a possible
Speaker 1: different perspective, does that land differently? So who walks into
Speaker 1: a diner that's respectful and says dance burger boy, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's right, freaking break you know what, You're right, You're right.
Speaker 1: It is mocking and like I said, he has every
Speaker 1: reason to have his feelings, you know, be offended by it,
Speaker 1: have his feelings hurt by it, and so not everything
Speaker 1: that she does is um, I don't think it's intended
Speaker 1: to be hurtful, but I still think it can be hurtful.
Speaker 1: But I do think that her that personality, that aspect
Speaker 1: of her personality. I do think it's protective and I
Speaker 1: do think she's had it for a long time. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, like I said in the email, Luke's got
Speaker 1: this grumpiness and it's a natural boundary. I think there's
Speaker 1: like later on episodes where he's like, who's gonna He's
Speaker 1: gonna call me on anything, He's gonna ask me anything.
Speaker 1: And I think it's harder when you're a female to
Speaker 1: do that. I mean, we know, we know some women
Speaker 1: that do that, but it's hard to do that. So
Speaker 1: it's a very approachable, amiable type of personality. But I
Speaker 1: think it's also a very boundary in that, um, she's
Speaker 1: presenting this kind of silly, zaney nous and and she's
Speaker 1: also very witty and very fast, and so you really
Speaker 1: need to know what she's talking about to even join in.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people are just like, Okay, I'm out.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really boundaried of her um and
Speaker 1: so and I think later on, and not to give
Speaker 1: anything away, but I think later on, when when she
Speaker 1: and Luke do have a relationship, or at least a
Speaker 1: deeper relationship, I think he knows how to turn that off.
Speaker 1: And I think and I think sometimes he doesn't mind
Speaker 1: because he knows he knows a different version of her,
Speaker 1: and so maybe that's safer. And I can't speak to that, Scott,
Speaker 1: my assumption. I just think it comes. I just think
Speaker 1: it comes from a sense of entitlement from an upper
Speaker 1: crust person and who looking down her nose at working
Speaker 1: class people. I don't. I think no. I think it's
Speaker 1: an aspect of her personality that she can never shake
Speaker 1: because that is in her d n a and she
Speaker 1: feels a sense of entitlement in that town, even though
Speaker 1: she presents different aspects of her personality at different times.
Speaker 1: That's one aspect of her personality that I found. And
Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing the actress. I'm not criticizing Lauren. I
Speaker 1: don't want to fancy get this wrong. It's just that
Speaker 1: when you when you walk into a diner and say,
Speaker 1: dance for me, Burger boy, you know this kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I get it. It's not it's not that big a deal.
Speaker 1: It shouldn't land that hard. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, if you want to sit around and analyze it,
Speaker 1: it's not how people operate in a small town. You
Speaker 1: don't think it's flirting. I think you tease and sort
Speaker 1: of rib the ones you love the most, and it's
Speaker 1: like you're testing the waters. I mean, it goes back
Speaker 1: to third grade. Like the boy that pulled your hair
Speaker 1: liked you. He had a crush on you. So that's
Speaker 1: what I think, but it's still hurt. But it's still
Speaker 1: hurt when you pulled my hair, and I may not
Speaker 1: have read it, is you liking me? So you're saying
Speaker 1: that she's kind of gaga for me and she doesn't
Speaker 1: have to express it. And maybe she just didn't even
Speaker 1: know she feels that way. It's unconscious. Maybe on a
Speaker 1: certain level. Yeah, I do, I do, I think, but
Speaker 1: I think it's um but I don't think this, Okay,
Speaker 1: So again this is pure speculation, but I think this
Speaker 1: is something she developed a long time ago. It was
Speaker 1: a really really protective device with her mother. And I
Speaker 1: think we've all done this before. If you've ever been
Speaker 1: around somebody, whether you like them or you don't like them,
Speaker 1: sometimes you can kind of put on like put on
Speaker 1: my game face and I'm gonna go in here and
Speaker 1: just to be a little more guard a little bit
Speaker 1: more armored up, a little bit more padded up, if
Speaker 1: you will, um to be able to deal with this.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing and this, and you know, as
Speaker 1: a therapist, I work with this, I work with with
Speaker 1: protective parts of people's personalities. Once that gets turned on,
Speaker 1: it's hard to turn that off. It is because it's
Speaker 1: turned on because it allows you to navigate the environment
Speaker 1: that you're in. So like in my world, when people
Speaker 1: come in to see me, they're like, well, it's not
Speaker 1: working because you're no longer in that environment. Though, so her,
Speaker 1: this part that I'm assuming is a is a protector.
Speaker 1: I don't know if she can turn it off consciously.
Speaker 1: Is their thing? It's their thing now, Scott. I think
Speaker 1: Luke and Lorela I have this thing. She thinks they do.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't, though I think he has it too.
Speaker 1: I think it goes both ways. But like you were saying,
Speaker 1: once in a blue moon, it hurts and it lands weird,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he's interpreting it as flirtatious at all,
Speaker 1: and it very very well maybe, But she's the type
Speaker 1: of personality in that dynamic with Luke where yes, that
Speaker 1: that behavior from whence she came now being applied into
Speaker 1: this situation with how Luke makes her feel walking into
Speaker 1: the diner, makes her feel safe, or whatever her feeling is,
Speaker 1: or lust or love or any kind of residual feelings
Speaker 1: she might be having. Um, it's the kind of a
Speaker 1: personality that gets involved with somebody like a Luke where
Speaker 1: they're always having to explain themselves. And they didn't mean
Speaker 1: to say that, you know you you're too sensitive, and
Speaker 1: and and it's a mess because they're always having to
Speaker 1: because like you say, you can't be unlearned. Um, and
Speaker 1: it's you're always sitting that person down saying listen, you
Speaker 1: know that that hurt I didn't. I didn't like if
Speaker 1: Luke ever even gets to that point in the first
Speaker 1: place where he's going to be, you know, so understanding, like, Hey,
Speaker 1: you can't come into the diner and talk to me
Speaker 1: that way. You know, it hurts me. It's disrespectful in
Speaker 1: front of my customers. And I'm not a burger boy,
Speaker 1: and don't don't talk to me that way. I'm a
Speaker 1: grown man. I'm not going to dance for you burger boy. Um,
Speaker 1: that kind of a thing. And I don't mean to
Speaker 1: make you know, uh something. But this is a great point.
Speaker 1: Does it to her too? How where when I think
Speaker 1: there's plenty of times when Luke makes little joke isn't
Speaker 1: the right word, sarcasm isn't quite the right word, But
Speaker 1: it's sort of all of those things where if she's
Speaker 1: sort of having a bad day, it could land weird
Speaker 1: on her. But really it's just your way. It's the
Speaker 1: way of Luke and Lora Lie their protectors. I mean
Speaker 1: to me, they're both protectors though you know the Yeah,
Speaker 1: the grumpiness keeps people at bay from you. You're in
Speaker 1: the middle of a very small town. Everybody's in everybody's business.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to ask you a lot
Speaker 1: of questions. You're gonna buy my head off. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a very effective way to have a boundary. Come
Speaker 1: behind the counter, Suki. But I really think that this
Speaker 1: is this These are two social classes being smashed together
Speaker 1: and conflicting. That's what it is. It's he comes from
Speaker 1: a certain social lass. She comes from on high and
Speaker 1: she's lowering herself and it's very comfortable being in that
Speaker 1: town surrounded by supporting, lovely people that she can express
Speaker 1: love for. But she's boundary with all of them, though
Speaker 1: she's want boundaried with all of them. Yes, she kind
Speaker 1: of does that little stick with everybody does. With the
Speaker 1: exception Suki ceased through it sometimes. That's why she asked
Speaker 1: the questions. And then you'll see You'll see Suki will
Speaker 1: kind of poke a little bit because she knows her
Speaker 1: and you'll see Loralai get more what we what we
Speaker 1: consider more defensive and more irritated with it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: even dismissive, very dismissive. But and there's a scene in
Speaker 1: the one of the first episodes when I rant and
Speaker 1: rave at her before like get get out from behind
Speaker 1: my counter thing, which I thought was really over the top,
Speaker 1: which meant actually something else over hearing them talking about
Speaker 1: Max Matin, it just pissed him off, Like does this woman?
Speaker 1: Is this woman so unconscious that she's doing this right
Speaker 1: in front of me? Doesn't she know how I feel?
Speaker 1: And I don't know, So I'm mad at myself. I'm
Speaker 1: mad at her that kind of thing, because I don't
Speaker 1: have the guts to to say anything. But she was
Speaker 1: condescending to Melissa, I mean, to Tasuki in the conversation prior,
Speaker 1: because there was she said something. There was a you know,
Speaker 1: a little word play that Laurela does and went right
Speaker 1: over Suki's head and and Laurel I just went, never mind,
Speaker 1: you know, you're not smart enough to figure it out
Speaker 1: kind of a thing, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: that's okay between I guess that's sort of okay, But yes,
Speaker 1: it does, it does show itself with other characters. Yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the beauty of this is she's
Speaker 1: perfectly imperfect though. But the other thing, I have to
Speaker 1: say it again with my my therapist part, this part
Speaker 1: of her, this kind of silly part. You have to
Speaker 1: you know, she what she left at sixteen. Okay, so
Speaker 1: she left at sixteen, So I guess would be this
Speaker 1: isn't a new aspect to her. This is probably something
Speaker 1: that she's been doing a long time to protect herself
Speaker 1: from her mother and and those around her that she
Speaker 1: didn't fit in with. So sometimes when sometimes I think
Speaker 1: when this comes out, you're dealing with a teenager girl.
Speaker 1: This part is not this part is this part is
Speaker 1: not an adult and teenagers you know, it's a case
Speaker 1: of arrested emotional development. Yeah. Absolutely. Her personality, yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And the and the cool thing about it though, that
Speaker 1: I that I really value in the writing of this though,
Speaker 1: is that it's really like sometimes that part of her
Speaker 1: personality is so useful. You know, it's very disarming, d escalates,
Speaker 1: it's great in the job that she has, very charming,
Speaker 1: it makes her very approachable. But like you said, when
Speaker 1: someone's trying to get to know her, and that part
Speaker 1: comes out, which it's almost most um, it's automatic because
Speaker 1: we don't know, we're not pretty, because it's a drama.
Speaker 1: We don't know what she's protecting. When she walks into
Speaker 1: this town. We don't know. And and we know that
Speaker 1: we've seen it because we'll see it later on that
Speaker 1: she is pretty vulnerable. And when and I didn't notice too,
Speaker 1: when the character is when your character and her character
Speaker 1: are alone together, they do speak differently. The guard goes
Speaker 1: down on both of you, and then when there's somebody around,
Speaker 1: it comes back up. It's almost like the I always
Speaker 1: look at it like the you know, when you like
Speaker 1: somebody and your teenager and people are picking on you,
Speaker 1: and so you want to just avoid that. And so
Speaker 1: the whole town, I mean, these are two very attractive people,
Speaker 1: they're single. People are gonna want to see him together,
Speaker 1: and there's all this speculation. So how do you protect
Speaker 1: from that? Well, I don't, I don't show it. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna treat him the way I treat everybody else. That way,
Speaker 1: you can't pick on me. Right. The scene that really
Speaker 1: brought it home for me about the sheer devastation to
Speaker 1: that family and Emily and Richard and the crushing disappointment
Speaker 1: that they experienced when she had to cancel. They had
Speaker 1: to cancel her her coming out party, her debutante uh
Speaker 1: ball um, and that scene really drove the point home
Speaker 1: about how utterly disappointed and how shamed and how crushed
Speaker 1: they were by by Laurel I Um sixteen years prior
Speaker 1: when Rory brought down the yearbook and said these pictures
Speaker 1: and allow pretty. Mom was so yeah, that was right
Speaker 1: before her. That was her dress for the debutante ball Oh.
Speaker 1: I didn't know she had one, And Emily says she
Speaker 1: didn't and that's her protector. Yes, yes, they don't acknowledge
Speaker 1: it in a way like and she was pregnant with you.
Speaker 1: It was this. It was hushed and then you feel
Speaker 1: shame and it's what you did to me, what you
Speaker 1: did to me. So to the other side of this,
Speaker 1: because you know that everybody's got it her perspective on it.
Speaker 1: So to the other side of this, Laurel I lives
Speaker 1: with Look what I did to my parents. They will
Speaker 1: never forgive me. What drove her to do some of
Speaker 1: her crazy stuff before probably she was then accepted in
Speaker 1: that world. Are seen Um well, not after she got pregnant. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I always think what led up to that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what led up to that? It wasn't like right, there
Speaker 1: was a reason she got pregnant. I like in Emily.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think she's got more cooth. But I like
Speaker 1: in Emily sometimes with Paris, I'm thinking, what would Paris
Speaker 1: be like as a mom? It's not gonna be about me.
Speaker 1: It's always going to be about how do I make
Speaker 1: you look good? Um, and so I can only imagine.
Speaker 1: I mean, no one's gonna call Child Protective Services on them.
Speaker 1: They didn't do anything like that. But but she I
Speaker 1: don't think she was seen, and in that kind of environment,
Speaker 1: it's so much more important. At least that's what we
Speaker 1: see in the show, that you need to appear this way.
Speaker 1: This is what we do. Yeah, this is why Scott,
Speaker 1: we're able to have a podcast like this where we
Speaker 1: talk about each episode because these characters, Yours, Lauren's, Alexis
Speaker 1: are so complicated. They really are very very flawed characters.
Speaker 1: Very very flawed characters make the most interesting character. If
Speaker 1: there were one dimensional, this podcast would be so boring
Speaker 1: and the show wouldn't be very good either. But I know,
Speaker 1: it's a drama TI, so they can't go into the
Speaker 1: you know, and I appreciate that too because it's I think,
Speaker 1: let's make it fun. But but yeah, they are complex.
Speaker 1: I mean, all the main characters, you get to see
Speaker 1: all the different sides of them. Um. But I was thinking,
Speaker 1: even when you guys finally come together, right before we
Speaker 1: have the big kiss, both of you are armored up
Speaker 1: so heavily. Wait a minute, we kiss. Oh no, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm kidding. I'm just being stupid. But right before
Speaker 1: that happens, and there's this whole incident with that, he
Speaker 1: tries to talk to her and find out You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm not a mysterious man here, and she's like, well
Speaker 1: the clothes, you know, the the clothes are a little
Speaker 1: bit of a head scratcher. But right there he's like
Speaker 1: stop and she goes into her protective place, and then
Speaker 1: he goes into his protective place, kind of that grumpiness.
Speaker 1: Be straight with me. And then right before it happens,
Speaker 1: they both just kind of drop it. She drops it
Speaker 1: and she's vulnerable and she actually tells you, yeah, you
Speaker 1: were right. What you saw was right. There was a
Speaker 1: moment what she says, and then he actually takes action.
Speaker 1: So in that moment they're able to both kind of
Speaker 1: drop the guard. But they were there right there. The
Speaker 1: guards were still up right until that moment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think they both feared well. I think I can't speak
Speaker 1: for her, um, but I think it took me four
Speaker 1: years because I was so absolutely terified of being rejected
Speaker 1: by her. Because I was already being rejected by her.
Speaker 1: The way she spoke to me, her attitude toward me specifically,
Speaker 1: and the ability that you know, the the the arrested
Speaker 1: development that gave her the license to say, dance dance
Speaker 1: for me, Burger boy, that kind of a thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: I love this woman. I know she's been disrespectful to me.
Speaker 1: I know this isn't gonna work. I'm not from her world.
Speaker 1: I can't function in that world. That's a that that
Speaker 1: world of money and and and privilege and power is
Speaker 1: alien to me. I can't swim in those waters. I
Speaker 1: still love her. Do you think that's how Luke feels,
Speaker 1: even though it might not actually be true that Luke
Speaker 1: feels less than or I'm not from her world, even
Speaker 1: though Laura La doesn't think that at all. Is that
Speaker 1: Luke's sort of I don't know his law, his kip
Speaker 1: on his shoulder. But that's I think that's the sixty
Speaker 1: four tho dollar question. Does she feel that I I
Speaker 1: don't think so, but we have a long road ahead
Speaker 1: and if she doesn't, but there are times that she
Speaker 1: sort of slips and lets out that she does feel
Speaker 1: that way, that she does feel better than or that
Speaker 1: she does like since one has a person from that
Speaker 1: social standing not felt that way having fallen, especially, they're
Speaker 1: going to overcompensate in a situation where they've fallen from
Speaker 1: such a great height. And now they're in this small
Speaker 1: town you know, um, and she's dealing with all her issues,
Speaker 1: you know, and trying to sort out her life and
Speaker 1: now she's back involved with her mom, mom and dad,
Speaker 1: who you know what I'm saying. So it's triggering her
Speaker 1: in all these all these ways that she can't control
Speaker 1: or predict, and it's coming out of me, it's coming
Speaker 1: out at her daughter. It's like like I said before
Speaker 1: earlier in the podcast. And and maybe you can help
Speaker 1: me with this, um. You know, I put myself in
Speaker 1: the situation where I'm with my dad, my mom's gone,
Speaker 1: and and and uh, I'm sixteen years old and I
Speaker 1: wake up one morning and there's my science teacher sleeping
Speaker 1: on the couch, Mrs Clark, And like, Dad, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? Are you dating her? What's that? What's happened?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a small town. That's such a scandal
Speaker 1: in a small town that nobody would do that, which
Speaker 1: is you know, again, we already had a debate about
Speaker 1: suspension of disbelief, But what's your take on that, about
Speaker 1: that particular about that kind of behavior taking that like
Speaker 1: having no sense of boundaries to protect their own child.
Speaker 1: And I'm I don't set mean to sound so critical,
Speaker 1: but I just I do want to get into a
Speaker 1: debate with you or a discussion with you about that,
Speaker 1: because it's still kind of bugs me a little bit. Okay, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so the whole MAXI Me Dina thing. Okay, So I
Speaker 1: watched her so on the porch. You watch these two
Speaker 1: aspects of her. The responsible mom was trying to explain,
Speaker 1: and then you had the woman that was very attracted
Speaker 1: And here's an opportunity, right right. Um. You know, and
Speaker 1: I always want to tell people, you know, the the
Speaker 1: reason that you and I are all sitting here is
Speaker 1: because there's a basic biological need that's very strong and
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen, and so it's in it. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know her history, and I don't know how
Speaker 1: long it was, but obviously we know which one one
Speaker 1: in that moment, and so we could say in that
Speaker 1: moment that that part of her over road the responsible part,
Speaker 1: and it was, and it was. It was not an
Speaker 1: ideal situation. And I think the next day, when some
Speaker 1: of that has kind of calmed down, she realizes it.
Speaker 1: M Well, I think one of the positive things that
Speaker 1: you can take away from it, at least from Rory's perspective,
Speaker 1: is that it's going to make her grow up a
Speaker 1: heck of a lot faster, because at times, who's raising
Speaker 1: who mm hmm. That's right, yes, because Lorel had a
Speaker 1: child at sixteen, and she ran away at sixteen, and
Speaker 1: she had to kind of find her own way, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, we don't we do know when trauma happens,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on how often it happens, we do
Speaker 1: have parts of us that are kind of stuck in
Speaker 1: that time and and she's you know, not doing therapy
Speaker 1: or anything like that to get these parts updated. So
Speaker 1: we do see her make impulsive you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: and and again as a therapist that a lot of
Speaker 1: times when people do things that are really impulsive, like
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, Scott, they are not operating at
Speaker 1: their age. They are operating it like my seventeen year
Speaker 1: old came out and you know, the door was open
Speaker 1: and she just took off and and so they're not
Speaker 1: in that space. And so it's not an ideal situation. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it adds to the drama of the show. Well.
Speaker 1: And sometimes yeah, sometimes we just make a bad decision
Speaker 1: because we want to make out with the hottie with
Speaker 1: the mustang, with funny teacher, great hair guy and the
Speaker 1: you know, and he you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: play too much in the Max with anything. But he
Speaker 1: does appeal to that part of her. He has to
Speaker 1: build that There are um unlike you know, and like
Speaker 1: Luke where she I think she she is very protective
Speaker 1: because she doesn't want anybody to see it. She doesn't
Speaker 1: want and I think she is scared of loss of
Speaker 1: that relationship, um Max Medina. He just lays it out there.
Speaker 1: There is no questioning, there is no guessing. He lays
Speaker 1: it out there exactly, and so there may be some
Speaker 1: part of her that's relieved. I don't have to, I
Speaker 1: don't have to, you know, guess what's happening here. I
Speaker 1: know exactly what his intentions are and and it's very
Speaker 1: and it is appealing to her on some level. And
Speaker 1: I do think in that moment she probably wasn't fully
Speaker 1: thinking from the mom brain right. The risk Scott of
Speaker 1: Laura la liking Luke is so much bigger and greater
Speaker 1: than her liking the hot teach its absolutely, do you
Speaker 1: know why? Because she's in control with Max, he is
Speaker 1: unwittingly providing her the ammunition to completely sabotage that relationship
Speaker 1: because he is letting his guard down. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's a terribly good idea for any man
Speaker 1: to do that with a personality like Laurela. And I
Speaker 1: think that that Luke doesn't give into that, that's true
Speaker 1: because maybe on a certain level he knows that his
Speaker 1: only chance is to just clam up, not play into
Speaker 1: that stuff, and just be himself and play the waiting game,
Speaker 1: which he did any want. And because shows up every
Speaker 1: day she does, She shows up every day. You could
Speaker 1: eat somewhere else I mean, I know it's a small
Speaker 1: town with the place across the street is probably weird,
Speaker 1: but yeah, well he does like her coffee. But seriously,
Speaker 1: we you know, if you've ever frequented this space, and
Speaker 1: any time, if you're dating anybody, you could go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why you keep showing up though. But
Speaker 1: yet you can cook for her, but she she continues
Speaker 1: to to send out AMMO to me, to Max to
Speaker 1: use against her. She just continues unconsciously. Today it's not safe,
Speaker 1: you know, again speculation here. If you're not seen in
Speaker 1: your household, this isn't safe. It's not safe to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: And we learned that really early on. You know, your
Speaker 1: sentiment relationship is with your parents. How safe are you?
Speaker 1: And so it is really difficult not to not to
Speaker 1: pick on parents here, but it is our first sentiment relationship.
Speaker 1: And so if I don't get that, and then we
Speaker 1: know it's sixteen, she's out the door and she's trying
Speaker 1: to figure out she's raising a child. Um, but this
Speaker 1: relationships are dangerous, and so Max is obvious. What you
Speaker 1: see is what you get. Luke's scary, right, right, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's scary. I don't really, they're like sometimes and they're both.
Speaker 1: I think in the in the was it the second
Speaker 1: episode when she goes up and she shows up early
Speaker 1: out out of her normal time, and she tells him,
Speaker 1: you know that somebody asks her out. You can look,
Speaker 1: you can watch her, and she's seeing if he does
Speaker 1: a reaction because he cares exactly, because he's so poker
Speaker 1: face exactly. That's why she brings it up to him.
Speaker 1: It's the dance began from the moment we meet them,
Speaker 1: so obviously it was going before. Ye. It is from
Speaker 1: moment one when she says to Rory, do you think
Speaker 1: Luke is cute? That's the ultimate admitting that you like
Speaker 1: someone well, and then Rory if you remember what Roy,
Speaker 1: Because Rory doesn't even know the two closest people, she
Speaker 1: doesn't feel safe enough to let the two closest people
Speaker 1: you know this very intimate thing. And so she tested
Speaker 1: it and then she gets feedback and it's like okay.
Speaker 1: And so again I don't know how conscious she is
Speaker 1: in doing some of this, but it is a safe
Speaker 1: way to have access to him, and and when she
Speaker 1: says things that are provocative, she does have his attention.
Speaker 1: So it's almost like she is having a relationship with
Speaker 1: him without having to worry about relationship with him. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's this thing and I mean, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: it's so it's a safe it's because it's that it's
Speaker 1: that place and you know, And that's the thing with
Speaker 1: with these protector parts that we can have, like that
Speaker 1: their job is to keep me from getting hurt. But
Speaker 1: that thing that she's doing, you're like, well, it's going
Speaker 1: to hurt you because I don't want to come in
Speaker 1: close to you when that's apparent, when that's active in you,
Speaker 1: and it in this episode, Scott, you know what, we
Speaker 1: talked about it right from the start, the pain I
Speaker 1: felt seeing Luke seeing her with Max, it was so real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very palpable. That was Those were the the eyes
Speaker 1: and the feelings in the face of a poker player
Speaker 1: who may have been flogging himself for not staying in
Speaker 1: the game or at least not aiding up. Those re
Speaker 1: enactors felt it too. Did you not think that the
Speaker 1: reenactors were like, oh no, because they can see it,
Speaker 1: but they know the only two people that don't know
Speaker 1: would be looking at everybody else, right, But nobody wants
Speaker 1: to take on Luke and get their head ripped off,
Speaker 1: and nobody wants to play Laurralize Witty. Where the hell
Speaker 1: is this going game that I don't have time to
Speaker 1: get pulled into. So it's they're they're very protected, they're
Speaker 1: very protective. But yeah, but that's why I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: playing the role. It was because I knew my love
Speaker 1: for her was pure. I didn't know whether it was
Speaker 1: going to work on any level, and I didn't particularly
Speaker 1: care about her fear. I was. I was enveloped in
Speaker 1: in my fear a little bit, but I wasn't going
Speaker 1: to change myself in order to become so vulnerable because
Speaker 1: I probably didn't intellectually understand that that was not the
Speaker 1: thing to do with her. I probably just simply sensed it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like when you're in death and there's that
Speaker 1: much fear, you don't make a move. And I think
Speaker 1: it took so much. That's absolutely true that there's a
Speaker 1: there's a right, there's a paralysis there, and that's what
Speaker 1: was so I think unique about this relationship in the
Speaker 1: whole canon of TV lovers and TV because of these
Speaker 1: seriously flawed people who were terrified of one another. And
Speaker 1: and and you're right about, um, the way we are
Speaker 1: imprinted by our parents and how they and how we
Speaker 1: sort of mirror them throughout our lives. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: I had one parent that not to analyze myself, But
Speaker 1: I had one parent who used humor to keep distance.
Speaker 1: And that's all he did. He was just you know,
Speaker 1: he was fast and funny and clever and smart as
Speaker 1: a whip. And but where are the feelings? You know,
Speaker 1: where are they? And I think Lord rely has a
Speaker 1: little bit of that too. She's always testing, testing, testing,
Speaker 1: testing who gets this, who's fast enough, who's funny enough,
Speaker 1: who's worthy enough? Well, and you speak to something. I
Speaker 1: think that's really important in that you're you know, she
Speaker 1: I don't even like, you know, we don't a lot
Speaker 1: of times we don't even know what our protectors are.
Speaker 1: So she's protecting herself. But what she doesn't know is
Speaker 1: that you're like, but you're hurting me. And she's so
Speaker 1: we would say, she's so enveloped in her own protection
Speaker 1: that she can't see it, and we can't. I mean,
Speaker 1: we can with therapy. These are treatful things, but when
Speaker 1: you're in it, when you're in it, that's the lens
Speaker 1: you're looking out of that is the lender looking out of.
Speaker 1: So we don't know how fearful. She looks so comfortable
Speaker 1: and she looks so easy in the world, and maybe
Speaker 1: some aspects of her are but I you know, but
Speaker 1: I would venture a guess that this is also really
Speaker 1: really strong protector within her. Yeah. And I think for
Speaker 1: Luke that it's the ultimate. It's a marathon, not a sprint,
Speaker 1: where he's like, first, he's scared, but also he is
Speaker 1: just gonna wait this out and let all these others
Speaker 1: fall fall, fall, and be the last man standing there.
Speaker 1: To me, there's some element of him just having being
Speaker 1: sort of just so like I'm just gonna wait this out.
Speaker 1: He's he's building courage. Yeah, I think that's really what
Speaker 1: it is. It's not about her, you know, petering out
Speaker 1: because she's had a series of failed attempts at that relationships.
Speaker 1: It's just him building courage. And I think we see
Speaker 1: that over time he's just building up the courage, uh,
Speaker 1: And that that's why that first kissed was so fraught
Speaker 1: with tension with her. She's building up the courage too.
Speaker 1: That's right. It's you can almost see him because I've
Speaker 1: seen several times where he's like, what what is it?
Speaker 1: What is it? And she won't say it. It's almost
Speaker 1: like it can't come up, you know, out of her throat.
Speaker 1: And so in that moment right before they kiss, it's
Speaker 1: a lot for her to say when he says there
Speaker 1: was a moment. I thought there was a moment, because
Speaker 1: that was you kind of being vulnerable, I'm thinking. And
Speaker 1: then she finally had to go there was. She never
Speaker 1: wanted to admit that. And there was a moment in
Speaker 1: this episode where he said, well, come on inside and
Speaker 1: get some coffee. That was I think maybe the first
Speaker 1: time he kind of asked her on a little date,
Speaker 1: because it was, you know, a little after hours maybe,
Speaker 1: and come on in and we'll be a little intimate
Speaker 1: with the coffee and come on and get on. And
Speaker 1: she rejected him. She goes, no, I love the snow
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna go see Max and we're
Speaker 1: gonna mac on each other's faces. I and and and again,
Speaker 1: and just speaking for for the one who's not here,
Speaker 1: and I could be so wrong. I wonder if it
Speaker 1: would have not been snowing, I mean they have not
Speaker 1: that may not have happened you know, because all that
Speaker 1: snow and stuff and led to that little intimate moment. Though,
Speaker 1: But if it hadn't have been snowing, she might she
Speaker 1: might have gone inside. But but I do think that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So and again sorry to my therapist too much. That's
Speaker 1: her little girl that loves the snow, and she wanted
Speaker 1: to be outside and play in the snow. And then
Speaker 1: the little girl met the seventeen year old part of her.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, a Max Medina is Christopher. He's playing
Speaker 1: the role of Christopher sixteen years later. It's completely inappropriate,
Speaker 1: but it's but it's what she knows. It's risky. Let's
Speaker 1: take a chance. It could screw up my daughter's life.
Speaker 1: But gosh darned, he's got great hair. I'm getting back
Speaker 1: on the motorcycle with Max Medina. But she knows the
Speaker 1: motorcycle for RELI yeah, she's yeah, yeah, She's like, I
Speaker 1: don't want my daughter because I know the motorcycle. So
Speaker 1: I don't want my daughter to get on the motorcycle
Speaker 1: because she knows daughters are vulnerable to the motorcycle. Is
Speaker 1: she is vulnerable to the cycle. We could go on
Speaker 1: and on, but that's why she's so worried about Dean
Speaker 1: and why she even acknowledges that Dean looks like Christopher. Well,
Speaker 1: he's smooth, and he's smooth, and he says it and
Speaker 1: that's and again that's why I think luke Um is
Speaker 1: scary to her because he doesn't lay the I mean
Speaker 1: poker face. Yeah. Well, he got very vulnerable with her
Speaker 1: in that moment talking about his father, and he was
Speaker 1: buried in his musket, and you know, it softened him
Speaker 1: a little bit. And he then went out and he
Speaker 1: he gave those guys some coffee and he took some
Speaker 1: orders that are you know, you know, you want to
Speaker 1: you want coco, okay, you know. And the same thing
Speaker 1: when he did the balloons for Rory's birthday. Every once
Speaker 1: in a while we see that softer side when he
Speaker 1: made the coffee cake or whatever it was. But then
Speaker 1: that softer side and this is how we all are though.
Speaker 1: But then that softer side goes down, and then you know,
Speaker 1: he sees what he saw across the street with her
Speaker 1: and Max, and it's and and so inside it could
Speaker 1: be like, well, this is why I have this wall
Speaker 1: going back up, not gonna let it go back down again,
Speaker 1: And and so that happens to us. And then you know,
Speaker 1: even in the perspective that you that you talk about
Speaker 1: him having a these are you know, socialites and their
Speaker 1: upper class and they're snotty and stuff. That's a perception
Speaker 1: that he would have had early early on. And so again,
Speaker 1: as things come into my environment, they're always going to
Speaker 1: touch upon some of my core beliefs. Do they reinforce it,
Speaker 1: do they challenge it? Do they reinforce it? And so
Speaker 1: that's that's that's on us. You could be right, or
Speaker 1: it could be a belief that you've had a long
Speaker 1: time that hasn't been updated either though that's right, that's right,
Speaker 1: If that makes sense perfectly, that's Luke's sort of law
Speaker 1: are you know issue. I just think he's practical. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: that's not sustainable. I can't live in that world, but man,
Speaker 1: I sure want to try. But it's good out of that.
Speaker 1: But I mean that's where these parts are born owadays.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense that it's not practical for me
Speaker 1: to think that way not live in that environment, why
Speaker 1: would I you know, oh whoof talk about sexual tension?
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that first night? I know we did
Speaker 1: not really why didn't they let us see more of that?
Speaker 1: Why didn't they let us see more of that? We
Speaker 1: got to see everybody else. They could have been like
Speaker 1: a shot of outside the house with a fur flying
Speaker 1: off the window. In the window our departments called Kurt
Speaker 1: because he's volunteering that every day. As you guys are
Speaker 1: saying this, it is a little like and over my
Speaker 1: eyes when Lorala and Max are going at it so aggressively.
Speaker 1: And I used to seeing LORELEI like that because that's
Speaker 1: the part you don't get to see. Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: gave me a little bit of the like I don't know,
Speaker 1: the wigglies where I was like, oh, should I be
Speaker 1: seeing this about Lorely and like, I mean, there's so
Speaker 1: many movies or TV shows where it's just like totally
Speaker 1: like out there, But for for Lourely, I felt, oh,
Speaker 1: this is uncomfortable for me to see this because we
Speaker 1: don't know that side of her. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know from my perspective, was very polite. I
Speaker 1: thought it was very u tame, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Max and Lorala that Yeah, I thought That's why I
Speaker 1: didn't mind it so much, because I said, you know
Speaker 1: that fire is not burning that hot. I was happy
Speaker 1: Lane interrupted because I was not ready for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I was like, I don't want to see this
Speaker 1: go further. I was like, I'm uncomm because it's wrong.
Speaker 1: It goes against the laws of nature. Yeah, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think we know. I just don't think we
Speaker 1: know that that aspect of her though, But yeah, you yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to see that part of her, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that part of her. I think Luke
Speaker 1: felt a hundred x. I mean, you know, Luke in
Speaker 1: that situation, that's like, you know, forget about it. I
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Nothing's no Lanes interrupting that, like
Speaker 1: Lanes running out of the house, like I better call
Speaker 1: the cops, know someone, someone's getting murdered. Oh man, that
Speaker 1: would have been an interesting episode. Oh my lord, kid,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to call you and have you back.
Speaker 1: We need a professional therapy just to get us through this.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting perspective, isn't it? Is it really? What
Speaker 1: do you guys think? I think you're spot on? I
Speaker 1: really do so. Amy agrees. Okay, Scott, what is the
Speaker 1: inner Luke? Inter? Luke? What's the inter Luke? How's he
Speaker 1: how's he receiving this, you know, it's it's it's helping
Speaker 1: me figure out why he felt it was a bridge
Speaker 1: too far with her, What made him hesitate, what made
Speaker 1: him so cautious, because he's being very cautious, Why he's
Speaker 1: so practical, Why he probably feels it's doomed at the outset. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, she's to this, she's you know, she's a
Speaker 1: little wacky, she's a little you know, I can't you know,
Speaker 1: he's not going to keep being able to keep up
Speaker 1: with that. He's a guy who wakes up early and
Speaker 1: goes to bed early, yeah, and does the say yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like he's got a very patterned, structured life and
Speaker 1: that's what he hangs onto, his structure, his business, that
Speaker 1: is him, that is who he is, and to allow
Speaker 1: this into who was life and he wants it, but
Speaker 1: I think he doesn't want it. And I think that's
Speaker 1: really the detention, you know, I think he wants it,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want it, but and once he gets it, um, well,
Speaker 1: I mean we'll talk about that at other time, maybe
Speaker 1: with you, But yeah, it's an interest. It's definitely an
Speaker 1: interesting it's an explosive dynamic between those two that's for sure.
Speaker 1: And I think they're both attracted to the other, like
Speaker 1: she's light and change and he's stability, but they're both
Speaker 1: on high. It's like, if you could calibrate that a
Speaker 1: little bit, where we could be in each other's spaces,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, eventually they do when they
Speaker 1: start to speak to each other. But yeah, but I
Speaker 1: think in the beginning it's that that opposite attract which
Speaker 1: you know, we do have to calibrate a little bit
Speaker 1: because it's attractive, but it's not sustainable in a lot
Speaker 1: of cases. So many of those start out like a
Speaker 1: house on fire, and then they fail very quickly. Exactly, kid,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You're awesome. Then you're awesome, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you against in interesting you we psychologicalized,
Speaker 1: in psychoanalyzed. That's I enjoyed that thank you, ask him
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Kim Wasn't that fascinating. Isn't she fantastic?
Speaker 1: She had a great perspective and the way she sort
Speaker 1: of explained things, And I like, I think we should
Speaker 1: have a therapy session every once in a while because
Speaker 1: we need to sort of like dig in deeper on
Speaker 1: what's really happening. Oh, I enjoyed that. I think she's
Speaker 1: she's fantastic. Wow, what an insightful human being and and
Speaker 1: a real pro Yeah, good therapist. She's a good therapist.
Speaker 1: I feel better already. I feel I feel like we
Speaker 1: accomplished something here. You know, we will now get ready
Speaker 1: Roy's dance. Rory's dance. Oh, that's going to be the
Speaker 1: next one. So we get to watch time. So everybody
Speaker 1: watch Rory's dance. We're gonna break it down next episod
Speaker 1: zode uh and look, thanks for downloading. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We're having a blast. We love you guys. You're the
Speaker 1: best fans on planet Earth. You already know that, but
Speaker 1: you need to be told, you need to be praised.
Speaker 1: We are going to do that. Um. I am Scott Patterson.
Speaker 1: This is the I Am All In Podcast on I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We'll see you next time. Hey, everybody, and
Speaker 1: don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all
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