WEBVTT - Torta Pascualina: A Deep Cut 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.080 Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Anny Reese. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.200 And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:15.640 for you about Pasqualina. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.640 Yes, any particular reason this was on your mind? 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.160 Lord, Yes, it's an Easter thing, and Easter is rapidly 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:25.400 approaching as we record this. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.960 Yes, it is. I have never heard of this, but 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:31.520 it looks delicious. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.080 Oh it looks I've never had it, but I had 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:40.320 heard about it, and I the cravings, the cravings. Yeah, yeah, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.000 I'm mad that I'm not eating it right now. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.760 It's pretty striking, like the it's beautiful, the cross sections. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.519 Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Well, listeners right in 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.560 if you've had it, if you have any recipes for it. Also, 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.840 this is going to be a bit of fun with pronunciation, 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.600 but we're going to do our best. Yeah. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.800 Yeah. Part of the issue is that I'm kind of 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:09.800 bouncing back and forth between Italian and Spanish, and I 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.560 only know one of those languages at all, and I 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.560 know that both of them have very similar sounds, but 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:16.800 not always the same. 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:22.200 So here we are, Here, we are. We're gonna do 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:27.560 our best. For past episodes, we have done Egg adjacent things, 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.520 but not eggs, right. 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.640 Yes, yes, you're correct there, Yes, all. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:38.160 Right, we have done deviled eggs, Easter eggs, Kisha, that's 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.600 an older one, but we share. Yeah, meat pies and. 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.240 Ricata yeah yeah, yogurt, sure, yeah, yogurt. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.120 Uh huh. Well, I guess that brings us to our 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:54.960 question for sure. Pasqualina? What is it? 0:01:55.720 --> 0:02:01.640 Well, a pasqualina, often formally called a pasqualina, is a 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:06.040 type of savory pie made up of cheeses, fine chopped greens, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.480 and whole cracked eggs that come out hard boiled when 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:14.000 they're baked in their double pastry crust. Different regions, and 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.600 I mean, you know, like neighborhoods and families have different 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.320 traditions about how like flaky versus bready the crust should be, 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.639 what types of greens and cheeses you use, what other 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.840 seasonings go in there, how towering the pie should be. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.959 But you're basically looking at a rich and tender and 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.840 filling pie that's vegetarian and not very fussy, but still 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.240 feels like a special occasion food. And indeed, it is 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.720 often served at holiday feast type meals, especially Easter and 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.880 surrounding holidays, it's the kind of thing that, again I 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.440 haven't had it, but from what I am understanding here, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.440 it's the kind of thing that tastes like light and 0:02:55.480 --> 0:03:00.480 sort of spring timey, but it's really satisfying, like the 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.200 sensation of plopping down on a sunny hill top after 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:11.840 a nice brisk walk. Yeah, the great things I know, 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:19.200 I know, all right. So this is originally an Italian dish. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.840 The word pasqualina comes from the Italian for easter pascua, 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.240 which itself comes from the Hebrew for passover pissak, which 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.799 I didn't know anyway. Torta technically means cake, but yes, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.760 we're talking about a pie here. So the crust is 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.120 most traditionally a philo type dough, like thin sheets of 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.280 flour and water, rolled out and brushed with oil, and 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.280 then stacked several sheets high, the idea being that they 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.440 crisp up all golden and flaky in the oven. I 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.640 have seen variations like using puff pastry or something more 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.840 like a tender flaky pie crust, or something more like 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.120 doe or bready. I can't tell you what to do, 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.760 and I wouldn't ever, I would not unless you're about 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.560 to poison yourself. And then I would be like probably 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:14.480 not that. The greens are traditionally either sharred or baby artichokes, 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.000 chopped small and cooked down until they're soft before adding 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.840 them to the pie. However, any in seasoned greens can 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.320 be used as long as they're like hardy enough to 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.080 stand up to being cooked. You know, you don't want 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.320 mush in there. You do want to squish as much 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.159 moisture out of them before adding them in because you 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.159 don't want the crust to get soggy during baking. The 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:41.360 cheese is very traditionally this Genoan fresh cheese called Prussian 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.240 sewa that I had never heard of, but it's apparently 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.640 like tart and fine grained and kind of fluffy, soft, spreadable. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.000 If you can't get a hold of that, and you 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.240 probably cannot outside of Genoa, folks often substitute in a 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.040 mixture of ricotta and maybe yogurt or crem fresh or 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.680 something like that. Adding some whist egg will help the 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.800 cheese day fluffy in the oven. Some recipes do call 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.880 for draining the dairy before you use it. Some recipes 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.680 will add extra richness and texture from other cheeses, like 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:21.520 maybe grated parmesan or mozzarella, and some recipes call for 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.400 your greens and your cheese to be mixed together in 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:30.040 the pie crust. Some call for separate layers. Both sound delicious. 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.160 I can't tell you what to do. Seasonings to all 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.279 of this might include, you know, the traditional like salt 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.120 and pepper and ground nutmeg and sauteed onions chopped up 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:47.039 fine and or perhaps boulder. Additions like garlic, cuman, bacon, 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:51.120 or maybe sweet or spicy peppers fresh or dried. Those 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.799 are more common in the South American diaspora, but people 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.600 do all kinds of things, like I saw a recipe 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.719 with a layer of liver patie in it, which sounds amazing, 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:11.680 but okay, yeah, right, Also I put this in the seasonings, 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.200 but it's kind of fifty to fifty. So I've seen 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.159 several recipes that use bread crumbs either in the filling 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.880 mix or spread along the bottom of the crust, and 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:27.320 that's also to help prevent sogginess. But yeah, it's kind 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.880 of a seasoning, depending on how you do your bread crumbs, 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:34.320 I don't know. And then you've got those those whole eggs, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.000 so you make little indents in the top of the filling, 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.240 and then crack the whole egg, like a whole egg 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.000 into each indent around the pie. Like the idea being 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.040 that when you slice the finished pie, you get a 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.479 cross section of egg in each slice, which is just 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.480 real pretty against the green of the greens. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.320 Yeah. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.039 I've never seen it without a top. Crust y'all ride 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:57.719 in let me know. 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:00.719 Yeah. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.040 Different variations have it baked anywhere from like really tall 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.760 in a spring form to kind of mid range and 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.360 a pie pan or cast iron skillet to almost flat 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.840 like a gallet but with a full top. Yeah, it 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.760 can be eaten warm or cool. I've seen recommendations to 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.880 eat it cool the next day because it kind of 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.320 like all the flavors have time to meld. And I've 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.680 seen it listed as like a brunch or lunch or dinner. 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.680 It is associated with the Easter, but can frequently be 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.440 found in cafes and from like street vendors anytime of 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:35.840 the year. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.520 Yeah, it sounds good. And I also saw a lot 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.560 of warnings of like, let it why don't you take 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:47.400 it out of the other one? Oh? 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.680 Yeah, yeah, let it cool and set up first, because 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.680 you don't want to, Yeah, because otherwise it'll all fall apart. Immediately. Absolutely, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.200 we don't want that. No, no, no, absolutely not. Well 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.920 what about the nutrition, h depends on what you put 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.880 into it, but I mean, generally speaking, like that's a 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.960 good punch of fiber, a good punch of protein. Like 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.760 you're you're you're, you're giving yourself a really solid base. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.680 I mean, you know, if a lot of Philo dough 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:26.400 and cheese is a treat, then treats are nice. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.600 They are, and this one sounds like a nice treat. 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:35.040 Indeed it does, despite that we have zero numbers for you. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:42.000 Sorry. Yeah, it's very I mean it's it's one of 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:47.200 those things that is both very regional. It has gone 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:52.400 other places, but just yeah, people aren't really collecting numbers 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:52.760 on it. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.200 Yeah, it hasn't really gone like quote unquote mainstream enough 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:05.560 outside of like Argentina and Yuguay and Genoa for there 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.200 to be really big international numbers and attention to it. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:14.600 So yeah, yeah, it was funny because I was sometimes 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.280 when you don't come up with as many resources as 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.360 you want, you know, you try all these other terms. 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.000 And I looked up easter pie because I was like, okay, sure, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.840 and I found a Sicilian one that's completely different and 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.920 very meat based, but I'm assuming they're related. But yeah, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.559 I think it's just very fragmented. But okay, that being said, 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.120 we do have some history for you, Oh. 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:41.720 We do, and we are going to get into that 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.400 as soon as we get back from a quick break 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:44.160 for a word from our. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:55.800 Sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:57.120 All right. 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.640 So, the history of meat pies are so sort of 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:06.080 savory filling in cased in dough traces back to ancient times, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.000 perhaps even to ancient Mesopotamia, and it makes sense because 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.600 it's convenient food to travel with or eat on the go. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:18.160 Instances of pies like this existed in ancient Egypt, Rome 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:23.240 and Greece, for example. The more modern version of the 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:27.400 Italian pie that torta, likely came up in the courts 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.840 of Naples, perhaps with influence from similar things in French cuisine. 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.319 From there, torte, which is the plural, spread across the 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:41.720 country with all sorts of federations. Since they were convenient 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.839 and could be made cheaply, they were popular amongst people 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.240 who worked in the Italian countryside and for those who 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.560 didn't have a lot of resources. Torte were filling and 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.800 they could stretch over multiple meals and feed multiple people, 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.600 and torta pasqualina comes from this tradition, which, by the way, 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.439 like just looking at the pictures, it does look really filling. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.440 Oh yeah, like I said, gould fill me up good 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.880 sturdy spinach and cheese pie with eggs in it? 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:09.520 Are you kidding? 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:16.160 Yeah? Absolutely. There was also likely influence from the century's 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.600 long presence of North African Muslims and parts of Spain, Portugal, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.720 and Italy. They brought with them a lot of crops 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.960 and dishes that changed the culinary landscape. We've talked about 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.400 this a lot before. One theory is that one of 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.720 the dishes they brought with them, the savory meat pie sambusak, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:39.360 directly influenced the creation of torta pascadina. But all right. 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.079 Most sources suggest that pascodina was invented in the sixteenth 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.199 century or maybe the fifteenth century, in the northwestern region 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.600 of Italy known as the Guria, possibly in the capital 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.079 of Genoa specifically. At the time, the region couldn't grow 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.400 a lot of wheat, and buying some from the outside 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.880 was expensive. With what they had, people typically used one 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.800 pound of flour to make a thin dough that was 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:13.160 good for torte. For the filling, meat was often expensive, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.560 so people would use local vegetables like mushrooms, spinach, fennel, leak, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.520 sartochoke shard, and maybe eggs if they had chicken, cheese 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.920 if they could get it. So these are the ingredients 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.720 we're seeing it, yeah, come together. The history of torta 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:34.000 pascalina is pretty sparse, but there are some popular legends. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:39.360 There's one main one. One of the most frequently repeated 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.880 versions is that women from the region created this dish 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.360 with thirty three layers of thin dough to represent the 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.079 thirty three years of Jesus's life, traditionally ten on the 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.880 bottom and twenty three on the top. It was this 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.400 savory pie with hard bowled eggs twelve around the edges 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.400 and one in the middle to represent Jesus in the 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.800 twelve decidleles, a type of fresh cheese, fresh spring vegetables 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:08.640 like spinach, shorter artichokes, and spices like marjoram. It was 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.839 a very springtime dish. It had a lot of symbolism. 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:18.360 It made it perfect for Easter celebrations. Again, some people 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.880 have gone back and forth about this but from when 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.520 I read, it was often eaten cold and was good 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.280 for picnics. While it wasn't necessarily expensive, it was more 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.880 time consuming than your usual torte, and it was perfect 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.280 for the endoflence and an important celebration like Easter in 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.560 a largely Catholic country. And it also just looks good. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.959 It just looks It's pretty. Yeah, it's nice looking, all right. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.000 So very brief breakdown on some of the early ingredients. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.240 Lauren already touched on some of this earlier. They could 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.480 all be their own episodes, some of them have already been. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.640 But yeah, briefly for the dairy pristin Sewa, which is 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.240 that acidic fresh cheese local to Laguria, was most likely used. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.880 A very quick search suggest it first appeared in the 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.360 historical record in the fourteenth century, though it was likely 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:12.559 way older. You know on our cheese episodes. Oh my goodness. However, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.439 this cheese was and remains, from what I understand, really 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.480 difficult to find outside of the region, so other cheeses 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.800 were subbed in it if folks can find it, like 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.400 ricotta that was a popular one, sometimes mixed with yogurt. 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.520 Yeah, because it is such a fresh cheese, right, it 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.600 doesn't like really travel that well, so. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.440 Exactly the green vegetable part is a little more difficult 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.960 to pin down, at least traditionally, but I read that 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.720 it was shard or spinach or artichokes, all of which 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.640 were growing in Italy by this point. Whatever green spring 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.680 vegetable that they had access to, I would imagine, let's 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.440 put it in there. As far as seasonings went, the 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.640 early versions of this dish probably included a mix of 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.680 star anis, carowet seed, nutmeg, cloves, cinnamon, and coriander, and 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.080 then eggs. We've talked about this before, but at the 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.520 time Catholics were not supposed to consume eggs during lint. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.600 At the same time, you can't exactly tell a chicken 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.800 to stop playing eggs, so people ended up with a 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.520 lot of eggs come spring and at the end of lint. Meanwhile, 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.760 eggs were often symbolic for things like rejuvenation and rebirth, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.480 which was a great fit both for the coming of 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.440 spring and the religious reason of the season for the 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.360 Easter celebration, the rebirth of Christ. So it's a very 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:33.920 symbolic dish. It did remain pretty regional for a while, 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.960 but It spread throughout Italy and parts of Europe, with 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.680 folks coming up with their own takes of it based 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:44.280 on what they had. Bartolomeo Scapi wrote about Torta pasquardina 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:49.160 in his fifteen seventy cook book, but by the nineteenth century, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.040 the primary cookbooks about Ligurian cooking made no mention of 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.160 this dish needing to have the thirty three layers. They 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.120 mentioned it, but not the thirty three layers. 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.720 Yeah, it's one of those popular legends. It's hard to 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.040 say whether anyone was actually ever doing that, or if 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:10.800 it's just a nice story. It's hard to say at 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.240 any rate. In the early nineteen hundreds there was a 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.280 lot of immigration from Italy and Spain as well to 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:24.840 places like Argentina and Uruguay with the rise of fascism 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.680 in Europe, so there are traditions around Pascalina there as well. 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.600 By the late like nineteen thirties or so, the dish 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.320 was like pretty entrenched in those areas. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:43.280 Yes, these days people tend to use less layers and 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.680 less eggs. A lot of the articles I read were like, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.720 just whatever layers, it's okay, do four to seven. I 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.200 don't know. Whatever you're up to. Yeah, exactly, but some 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.880 do still make it the traditional way, including traditional cooking methods. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.600 I've read that or was a festival where people did 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.280 it until nineteen ninety four and they'll just died off. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.000 And those who who do do it worry that the 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.000 tradition will soon be lost, like no one's going to 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:16.359 keep doing this anymore. But it does sound really good. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.680 Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, where can 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.520 I go to either find some or can I psych 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:34.040 myself up to make some? The question always, but yeah, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.840 if y'all have any experience with it, or if you 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.480 went to a festival about it back in the day. 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.280 We would love to hear about that. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.120 We absolutely would. But that's what we have to say 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.280 about Pasquald enough for now it is. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.800 We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.239 and we are going to get into that as soon 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.040 as we get back from one more quick break for 0:17:54.080 --> 0:18:05.040 a word from our sponsors, and we're back. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.280 Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:17.560 This May every time. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:19.240 Yeah. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:26.240 Yes, Sarah wrote, Hello from northern California, wine and wheat Country. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.639 I don't have any fun stories to tell you, but 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.040 I have a book recommendation I think is super interesting, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:37.520 and I'm including cute pet photos just because the book 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.000 is Hippie Food, How Back to the Landers, Long hairs, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.520 and Revolutionaries Changed the Way We Eat? By Jonathan Coffman. 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:49.560 It traces the social history of natural and health food 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.439 movements from early twentieth century Los Angeles to macrobiotics, to 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.800 organic and farm to table restaurants to plant based raw 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.760 food or fasting slash juicing movements that are feel startingly 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.080 similar to this day. It's funny and insightful, and I'd 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:05.879 love to hear you do a guest interview with the 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.600 author as promised. Here are a few kitties to brighten 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:15.360 your day. Top photo is Frankie. Middle is Elka, eighteen 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.600 years young, but who earned the nickname Elcatraz for her 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.240 wild and wooly kitten antucks. And there was a third 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:27.800 photo of Marlon Brando with his cat on his shoulder 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.040 writing which, by the way, the first time I read 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.520 this email, I thought you had a cat named Marlon Brando, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.040 and oh it was really funny. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:37.520 That is a great name for a cat. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.600 That would be good, But I mean these are also excellent, 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:42.119 excellent names. 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:47.720 Yes, yes, absolutely, And the photos are two lovely tabby cats, 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:53.000 both of whom look very relaxed and happy and petible. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.920 Yes, but I can see the chaos lying in wait. 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:00.960 Oh always that. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:05.119 It's just understood. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.320 Yeah. In between the end of our history section and 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.359 the listener mail, I in fact had to kick my 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.399 kitten out of the recording studio because there were a 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.400 number of thuds that occurred and I was like, well, well, 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:21.520 no more of that. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.000 I don't know what just happened, but out you go. Yes, 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.000 let's just nit this in the bud. But yeah, we 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.280 do love we love book recommendations as well, and this 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.560 sounds really interesting. I would love to trace the just 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.600 kind of movements, those kind of health movements. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.080 Oh yeah, no they are. They are also wild and 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.280 wild and wooly. This is true and always always super interesting. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.680 M thank you for paying the pet tax. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.359 Yes, yeah, yeah, and always a book recommendation. Yeah, please 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.600 give me a bigger reading list and I will maybe 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:07.800 get to things that aren't the Hunger Games someday. Segal wrote, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.600 Israel has a tea bag conspiracy. In the nineteen sixties, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.919 there was a law in Israel that food packages cannot 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.200 be sealed with staples. That was because sometimes the staples 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.720 fell into the food. Strangely enough, that was also applied 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.200 to tea bags even though they're not opened. This allowed 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.399 an Israeli tea company named Wzotski to take over the 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.119 market of tea in Israel. They use glue because no 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.479 foreign company will change its packaging for such a small market. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.520 In nineteen nineties, there was a request to change the standard, 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.760 but the Wotski lobbyists were able to get it denied, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.840 and in nineteen ninety six it got all the way 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.199 to the Israeli Supreme Court where it was reversed, and 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.720 since then the tea market was opened to other packaging 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.920 and companies. The sad thing is that Wazotski still controls 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.240 the market because Israelis are used to buying it, so 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.000 you'll find less varieties and less companies in Israeli stie. 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:02.480 As a tea lover, I make it a habit to 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:07.840 buy anything but Wazotski and explore other kinds. Now to 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.640 gafilter Fish. Gafilter Fish always brings me to the memories 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.520 of my grandmother Anya, who passed away in twenty twenty 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.480 two at the age of ninety six, even though she 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.879 grew up in the Soviet Union, who oppressed Jews and 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.080 Jewish culture. There were two Jewish cuisine dishes she knew 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.040 how to make, gafilter fish and mutza balls, which she 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.159 also puts some chicken inside. And we waited for the 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.800 New Year and Passover to eat the kafilter fish, which 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.399 she made the traditional way, meaning she filled the fish 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.200 with its meat and cooked it like this. My uncle 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.720 always ate the head of the fish. Now my aunt 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.639 is making experiments of making it, so we're hopeful, and 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.119 whenever we eat the store bought my mom's partner, who's 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.159 of Yemenite descent so didn't grow up on this, says, oh, 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.000 but the gafilter fish your mother made. I guess we'll 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.280 never have the good ones anymore, but will miss her 0:22:55.520 --> 0:23:00.280 like she deserves to be missed. Now to flavors, My 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.200 theory of why store bought gafilter fish is so bad 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.840 is that it sits in the jar in the carrot juice, 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.240 so when you eat it, all you can taste is carrot. 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.040 Another thing about the taste is that there are differences 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.320 between the Polish Jews who make the gafilter fish and 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.359 the horse radish sweet and the Russian Jews who make 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:18.359 it spicy to hot. 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:20.360 There was a yuck with the. 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.160 Sweet one and a yum with the spicy one in 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:29.040 there to close, the stories about making the horse radish 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.160 for passover always sound more like a drug. 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:33.000 Lab than a kitchen. 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.240 Yeah that's if y'all have never grated fresh horse radish. 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:45.240 This is an accurate statement. It is that the fumes 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.400 are quite strong and you really have to mitigate them 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:55.840 for your own safety. Oh oh, but I love I 0:23:55.880 --> 0:24:00.160 love that your grandma made the stuffed gaffilter fish. 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:00.960 That's so cool. 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.640 I had never heard of that before I did the reading. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:08.399 For that episode. Yeah, that is really cool. And you 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.080 know it's sad that you won't maybe have it that 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:12.679 way again, but the memory lives on. 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:14.560 Yeah, yeah, of course. 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:19.280 Yeah. May her memory be a blessing. Absolutely, Yes, Oh, 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:21.480 good mats of I've never heard of putting chicken inside 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:23.840 of Matza balls, And now I'm like, why have I? Well, 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:25.919 I haven't I done that. Why don't you put a 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:30.000 little bit of good bold chicken inside of a Matza ball? 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:34.280 That sounds delicious, That sounds absolutely delicious, And as someone 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:37.440 who's never had any jarred goafil to fish, I think 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:39.600 your theory sounds. I think it sound. 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.400 Yeah, yeah, right. 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.160 And there's texture things that wind up when you when 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.439 you just have something sitting in liquid like that for 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:53.000 too long. There's yeah. 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.840 I also have to say I've never thought about tea 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:59.679 bags as much as I have during and after we 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:02.720 did that episode. But now some of you have written 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:07.080