1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. I recently watched a 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: video on YouTube that showed six month old emperor penguin 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: chicks marched to the ocean in Antarctica. When they arrived 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: at the edge of a fifty foot cliff, this amazingly 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: huge crowd of penguin chicks all began to dive off 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: the cliff into the ocean. As it turns out, this 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: action had never been filmed for television before. The video 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: was captured by a National Geographic team led by wildlife 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: filmmaker Bertie Gregory in January twenty twenty four. It's part 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: of the series Secrets of on National Geographic and will 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: be released as part of the Secrets of the Penguin 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: special around Earth Day in April twenty twenty five. I 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: was so taken with the video and how the filmmakers 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: were able to capture this extraordinary footage that I wanted 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: to invite Birdie Gregory to tell me and all of 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 1: us about his incredible experience filming these Emperor penguin checks. 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: Pretty welcome and thank you for joining me in New World. 18 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: And I have to say it's a thrill for me 19 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: to talk with you. I've loved animals my entire life, 20 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: and I have to say I'm more than a little 21 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: envious of your career. 22 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 2: Oh well, nice to me, and nian thanks for having 23 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: me get to chat with you. 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: So let's start with the Emperor penguin checks. And of 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: course there's a great documentary called March of the Penguins 26 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: which gives you a flavor for how unusual the Emperor 27 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: penguins are. But describe for our listeners how you approach 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: this whole project and how you captured that moment of 29 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the Emperor penguin chicks jumping into the freezing called Antarctic 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: for their first swim. 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. So emperor penguins are a real challenge to film. 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: They live in what I call proper Antarctica. Now, when 33 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: I say proper Antarctica, if you are one of the 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: people lucky enough to visit Antarctica, generally speaking, most people 35 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: go to what's called the Antarctic Peninsula, which is a 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: piece of Antarctica that sticks up towards South America. And 37 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: because it's a little further north, it's more temperate. I 38 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: say temperate, is still very cold, and it's covered in 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: many different species of penguins, but it doesn't have many 40 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: emperor penguins. Emperor penguins live on the kind of continental 41 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: mass of Antarctica where it's much colder and it's incredibly remote. 42 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: So we spent two months camping on the ice. Our 43 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: team did, and we were camping a couple miles from 44 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: a ten thousand strong emperor penguin colony, and during those 45 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: two months we watched the chicks grow up, and the 46 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: timing of our expedition was so that towards the end 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: of our two months that would be the point at 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: which the chicks would start leaving their colonies and they'd 49 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: start marching to the ocean and jump in the sea 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: for their very first swims. Now, we expected them to 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: sort of reach the water's edge and jump off of 52 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: what's known as sea ice, so the drop this is 53 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: frozen ocean, so the drop into the water would be 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 2: normally one or two feet. They'd just fall off and 55 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: PLoP and then start swimming. But very unexpectedly, I was 56 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: flying the drone one day searching down the coast, and 57 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: we noticed that there were these groups of chicks that 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: weren't going towards the sea ice edge where we were. 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: They were instead taking a different route and disappearing kind 60 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 2: of over the horizon, and we couldn't get to where 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: they were because it was an incredibly dangerous area of ice. 62 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: It had lots of crevasses that these big cracks in 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: the ice. So I flew the drone there because we 64 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: couldn't physically go there, and to our amazement, stood at 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: the edge of this fifty foot ice cliff was a 66 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: group of seven hundred Emperor Penguin chicks all stood right 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: at the edge of this cliff. Yeah, that was kind 68 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: of the scene that unfolded. 69 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: When I watched the video, which I recommend everybody who's listening. 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: There's this moment when they first get to the edge 71 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: of the cliff and they kind of freeze, like I 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: don't know that I want to do this. And then 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: I don't know if the first couple are shoved off 74 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: or if they'd finally decide they just have to do it. 75 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: But you have the other men dropping fifty feet right 76 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: into the ocean. 77 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So what's really extraordinary is that this is the 78 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: first time these chicks have seen the ocean. Never mind 79 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: the fact that there's a fifty foot drop, fifty foot 80 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: cliff to jump off. This is the first time they've 81 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: seen the ocean, so they don't know how to swim. 82 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: It's kind of baked down deep inside of them. It's 83 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: an instinctual magnetism towards the sea that they have because 84 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: they have no adults to show them where to go either. 85 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: Their parents had abandoned them the month before. So when 86 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,119 Speaker 2: they reached the edge of the cliff, as you said, 87 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: they all sort of stopped and looked and went h 88 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 2: not sure about this. And to me, the most important 89 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: thing was making sure that our presence, you know, the 90 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: presence of the drone had nothing to do with their choices. 91 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: And so what I did was I hovered the drone 92 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 2: a really long way away. We've got this really cool, 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: powerful new zoom lens stabilized underneath the drone, so it 94 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: meant I could hover the drone a really long way away. 95 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: The drone's batteries about between thirty and forty minutes, So 96 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: I would hover the drone out there, just keeping an 97 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: eye on them, and then when the battery was empty, 98 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 2: I'd fly it back to me, change battery, flight back out. 99 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: And I did that for three or four hours, and 100 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: they all just stood at the edge, and then after 101 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: about three or four hours. I really vividly remember one 102 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: penguin that you see in the video. The first one 103 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: was not pushed. It walked to the very edge, kind 104 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: of stepped forward away from the rest of the chicks 105 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: and went, I'm doing this and just leapt off. And 106 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: it's amazing. They really looked to each other for encouragement. 107 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: And as soon as that first one went and kind 108 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: of popped up to the surface and was okay, the 109 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: rest of them started to follow. And yeah, there was 110 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: a period of about ten minut where they were just 111 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: pouring off the cliff. It was absolute carnage. 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: Do you have any theory of why this particular group 113 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: of chicks came to that cliff rather than going to 114 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: the normal entry point. 115 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: There's a lot of different scientific theories behind it. I 116 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 2: think there's a certain amount of randomness as to the 117 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: route that these chicks take. You know, it depends on 118 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: a lot of things. It just so happens that they 119 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: love playing follow my leader. They moved to the ocean 120 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: from the colony to the sea. In small groups. If 121 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: the leader of a group of ten happens to go, oh, 122 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: I'm going to go left, then all of them will 123 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: go left, and so that group of seven hundred they 124 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: didn't march to the ocean as seven hundred. They marched 125 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: in small groups of between ten and twenty. They sort 126 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: of slowly filled up there. There's lots of different theories 127 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 2: as to why they've gone. I think it's becoming more 128 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 2: common that they find themselves at these big cliffs. It's 129 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: something that's happened. There's evidence to suggest it's happened for 130 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: years and years and years, but it's becoming more common 131 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: because of climate change. So as our climate warms, the 132 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: sea ice that they are usually jumping off is breaking 133 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: up earlier in the season, and because of that, instead 134 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: of going down onto the sea ice, they stay on 135 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: these more permanent ice shelves, which are what make up 136 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: these big cliffs. That's the thinking. 137 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: And are they also worried about falling into crevasses if 138 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: they were to go on the sea ice or do 139 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: you think they don't even notice. 140 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: That these more permanent ice shells actually have far more 141 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: dangers in it. They have a lot of much deeper crevasses. 142 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: You know, if they fall in a crack in the 143 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: sea ice, generally they just fall into the water. Whereas 144 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: we saw this on the ice shelves if they fall in, 145 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: as that crarass could be one hundred two hundred feet 146 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: deep and they're not getting out of that. They seem 147 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: to be blissfully ignorant of the danger. And they sort 148 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: of walked over this minefield of crevasses that we knew 149 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: was there, but they walked across. 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: If I remember correctly from March of the Penguins, the 151 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: parents actually have one egg, and one parent holds their 152 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: egg up off the ground, and the other parent walks 153 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: miles to the sea, fills up with fish, comes back, 154 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: and they swap the egg and then the other parent. 155 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: So there must be some payods. 156 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: In the case of the emperor penguins. The females are 157 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: the ones that obviously lay the eggs, and then the 158 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: male will come over, as you say, and they'll swap. 159 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: But it's not just weeks that that male has to 160 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: sit like that. It's a more significant period of time 161 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: than that. They go through this amazing fasting period. You know, 162 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: imagine being in minus forty degree temperatures and fasting at 163 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: the same time. They're a really extraordinary animal. Why on earth, 164 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: as an emperor penguin would they choose to lay their 165 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: eggs in the middle of the Antarctic winter. Why wouldn't 166 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: they do it when the weather's nicer. Well, if you 167 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: actually look at their life cycle, they're basically working backwards. 168 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: So if you lay your egg in the middle of 169 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: the Antarctic winter, when the conditions are most brutal, it 170 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: means by the time that the chick has hatched and 171 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: grown up up and is ready to go off by itself, 172 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: the conditions are most benign. So it's all about working 173 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: backwards to set themselves up, so the chick is going 174 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 2: off on its own when the conditions are kind of 175 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: most friendly and there's the most food around. It's a 176 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: very clever system. 177 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: If I understand it. There really isolated that there aren't 178 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: either penguins around. 179 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: The strategy of the emperor penguin is if they can 180 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: live in this awful place where it's so cold and 181 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: so windy, where nothing else can survive, which means you've 182 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: got no competition, so you've got nothing to bother you 183 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: other species of penguins. There's a much smaller species called 184 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: the daily They turn up when the Emperor chicks are 185 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: fledging and often give them a hard time. But during 186 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 2: that winter period when they're having the eggs. There's nothing 187 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: else around, nothing else can survive at that time of year. 188 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Do the Emperor penguins have to worry about leopard seals, 189 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean as their predation where they're going to go 190 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: in the water. 191 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. Yeah, So they're very apprehensive when they're 192 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: at the water's edge because that is really the danger zone. 193 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: The leopard seals can't really hunt them in open water, 194 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 2: so it's the point that they're jumping in or jumping 195 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: out that is the most dangerous for them. 196 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: They're actually very fast and agile in the water, aren't. 197 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: They incredibly fast, Yeah, but pretty clumsy on land. So 198 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: you'll see when they're waiting at the water's edge to 199 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: get in, they're very very hesitant. They take a very 200 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: long time to decide. It's painful to watch because you're like, please, 201 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: just get in the water already. But once one goes, 202 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: they'll all go because it's safety in numbers. If you 203 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: think you're a leopard seal in the water waiting for 204 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: one to jump in, if suddenly fifty jump in and 205 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: they do these amazing evasive maneuvers, it's like watching f 206 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: thirty five fighter jets doing evasive maneuvers, firing flares out 207 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 2: the back. They make these amazing bubble trails that make 208 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: it so difficult for the leopard seals to pick one off. 209 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: That's really remarkable. And then are they eating krill or 210 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: what are they eating? 211 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: They have a really very diet. They'll be going for krill, 212 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: small fish, squid. What's really cool about the Emperor is 213 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: the deepest diving bird. So they can dive down to 214 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: more than fifteen hundred feet, so really really really deep 215 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: obviously on a single breath, and these dives can be 216 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: twenty minutes long. Incredibly capable swimmers. 217 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: So they've found unique sources of food that the others 218 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: can't compete with exactly. 219 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: So basically their strategy is to breed in a place 220 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: where nothing else can live because it's so harsh, and 221 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: then dive deeper than other birds. So yeah, they're competing 222 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 2: with whales at that depth. I guess. 223 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: Your team is a UK production company, Tailsmith, and you 224 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: were living on attended camp on the ifshelf, like for 225 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: nine weeks at minus five degrees. Wasn't that cold? 226 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: It was chilly. Some days were colder than others. We 227 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: actually had one particular incident where we had this big, 228 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: low pressure, big storm came through and five of our 229 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: eight tents ripped and just filled up with snow. They 230 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: just drifted over, so we had to kind of abandon 231 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: those during the storm and huddle in the other tents. 232 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: It was a long six day storm that just seemed 233 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: to go on and on and on, and we ended 234 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: up there was an unused South African research station, and 235 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: when I say research station, basically two shipping containers that 236 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: we knew were there as our kind of emergency bailout. 237 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: And so we lived in these shipping containers for six 238 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: days while we waited for the storm to pass. And 239 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: when we came out, five of the eight tenths were 240 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: just full of snow, so there was a lot of 241 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: digging the next few days. 242 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: How much have the combination of really good cameras and 243 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: drones changed what you do? 244 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 2: The advent of drones in particular have just revolutionized what 245 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: we can do. So it used to be that drones 246 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: when they first became kind of available, we were using 247 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: them to just get kind of pretty landscape aerials seen 248 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: setters for the story. But now thanks to increased flight 249 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: times and as I mentioned, earlier. You know, more powerful 250 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: zoom lenses that are stabilized. We can use them to 251 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: film animal behavior now like never before. I mean, the 252 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: only reason that was able to film that clip of 253 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: the chicks jumping off was because of the drone. We 254 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: couldn't actually see the cliff face because of where we 255 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: were positioned, so the only way of getting that angle 256 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: and that perspective was with the drone. So they've been 257 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: a complete game changer, and I've been very fortunate to 258 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: kind of be at the forefront of that revolution of 259 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: drones in wildlife films. Been very lucky to take that 260 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: technology down to film a number of animals for the 261 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: very first time, which has been a real honor. 262 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: But it's really the combination of the drone and exquisite 263 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: cameras totally. 264 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. So actually the camera underneath these drones is really 265 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: really small. The technology is evolving incredibly quickly, and it's 266 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: exciting all these new toys that we get to play 267 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: with whenever they released. 268 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,599 Speaker 1: Now, this is going to be part of Secrets of 269 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: the Penguins, premiering in April of twenty five, and that's 270 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: part of our series The National Geographic. So what can 271 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: you tell me about the Secrets of the Penguins. 272 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: As a show, it's going to be three episodes. Each 273 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: episode is going to focus on a different species beyond 274 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: the Emperor Penguins jumping off, I have been told specifically 275 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: that the rest is a secret. As the name suggests, 276 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: I'll have to come back on your podcast to chat 277 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: with you nearer the time when I'm allowed to spill 278 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: more of the beans. 279 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: I promise you we were have time for you because 280 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: I'm totally fascinated with the natural world, which leads me, 281 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: I guess to a key question about you. You must 282 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: have a real passion for the natural world and for 283 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,479 Speaker 1: wildlife and for photography. 284 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: I think you have to most people that I work 285 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: with in wildlife film, we didn't come from a filmmaking background. 286 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: We came from a wildlife a biology background, and kind 287 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: of the camera side of things is secondary. You know, 288 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: of courseldlife filmmaker, you need to be technically capable with 289 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: a camera and flying the drone or whatever tool you 290 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: specialize in. But first and foremost, the most important thing 291 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: is your ability to read the animals and figure out 292 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: what they're going to do next. And of course we're 293 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: part of a huge team, and we get to work 294 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: with amazing experts that help inform us on that. But 295 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: I feel very lucky to have a job that I love. 296 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: I know not everyone gets to do that. And where 297 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: it all started was just a passion for wildlife, and 298 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: I found, sort of by accident in the beginning, that 299 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: if you take pictures and video of the animals that 300 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with, that's a great way to get other 301 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 2: people excited about the natural world and about the thing 302 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: that I care about. 303 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: So I understand when you were a university student you 304 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: were taking pictures and you managed to go to the 305 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Amazon for three months? How did that happen? 306 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: Part of filming wildlife is you need to be a 307 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: problem solver. I think people have this idea that filming 308 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: wildlife as a job is basically just prancing around the 309 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: world having amazing wildlife encounters. But the reality is that's 310 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: about one percent of the job. Ninety nine percent of 311 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: the job is problem solving, and I don't know hustling's 312 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: the right word, but it's making situations arise. And in 313 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: the case of the Amazon that you mentioned, I managed 314 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: to convince my university to send me off. 315 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: So on the one hand, you're in the middle of 316 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: the Antarctic and on the other hand, you're in the 317 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: middle of the huge tropical forest. What a diversity. 318 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: Some people in my industry kind of specialize in a 319 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: particular subject. You get people that are specialized in filming 320 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: birds or cold places or tropical places. I kind of 321 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: am a jack of all trades, master of none. I 322 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: like the variety. I do definitely do more cold than hot. 323 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: I definitely have an affinity to cold places just because 324 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: being in cold places, whether that be the Arctic or 325 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: the Antarctic, because they're difficult places to work, challenging places 326 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: to work. The chances are if you just keep going 327 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: around the next corner, you might go into a bay 328 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: or round an iceberg no one's ever been to before, 329 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 2: and so the chances are you might be able to 330 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: see and film something never recorded before. And that's really 331 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: exciting to me, and that's I think one of the 332 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: key drivers for me. 333 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: You graduated in zoology at the University of Brussels and 334 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: the following day you're on the way to South Africa. 335 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: Fun story. So, when I was a teenager, I used 336 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: to enter young wildlife photography competitions. I loved photographing wildlife 337 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 2: in cities because that was what was near to me 338 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: when I was growing up. So I got obsessed with 339 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 2: the peregrine falcon, the fastest animal on Earth. It's my 340 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 2: favorite animal. Most species don't do well, most wild animals 341 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 2: don't do well in cities, but peregrines do very well, 342 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: and that's because one of their favorite prey, the pigeon, 343 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: is very numerous in cities. I spent a lot of 344 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: my childhood wandering around London trying to find peregrine falcons, 345 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 2: and I managed to get a photo of one in 346 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: front of a huge Union Jack flag that actually flies 347 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 2: on the House Parliament right in the middle of London, 348 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: and that picture won an award, and at the awards 349 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 2: ceremony for that competition was one of the National Geographic 350 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: Magazine photographers, a guy called Steve Winter. He's one of 351 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: their kind of top legend photographers, certainly one of my heroes, 352 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: and he at this event was looking for a new assistant. 353 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: So it was one of those kind of Willy Wonka 354 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: Golden Ticket moments where I was in the right place 355 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 2: at the right time, had had some of the experience 356 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: that Steve was after and he offered me a job. 357 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: He kindly let me finish my university degree and then yeah, 358 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 2: the day after my graduation, I jumped on a plane 359 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: to start working for him. In South Africa, we were 360 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: doing a worldwide leopard story for National Geographic magazine. That 361 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: was the beginning of ten years with National Geographic. 362 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: This intrigues me because it says that you were taking 363 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: pictures of urban leopards in Mumbai. How do leopards exist 364 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: in an urban environment? 365 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. So we're doing a worldwide leopard story. 366 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 2: So we were documenting leopards across their range, from really 367 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: wild places like in South Africa. We were near a 368 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 2: place called the Sabby Sands and the Timbervati Game Reserves, 369 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: kind of where you'd expect, I guess to see a 370 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: leopard wandering around alongside lions and things like that and elephants. 371 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: There's a population of leopards in Mumbai, which is one 372 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 2: of the largest cities on Earth, and in the middle 373 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: of Mumbai is a national park called Sanja Gando National Park. 374 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: I think it's about one hundred square kilometers, so it's 375 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: a pretty big park. But it's surrounded almost on all 376 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: sides by the city of Mumbai. Under the cover of 377 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: darkness at night, many of the leopards will spend the 378 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: day in the safety of the park, and then under 379 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: the cover of darkness at night, they'll come out of 380 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: the park and into the city. They're running down the 381 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: streets and they're hunting stray dogs, people's chick skins, goats, pigs. 382 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: It's a really amazing story and actually it's a really 383 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: cool example of coexistence. There were quite a few attacks 384 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 2: kind of early on in this relationship, but the local 385 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: people have really figured out how to live alongside these leopards, 386 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: which is a pretty amazing thing. And I think we 387 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: can certainly learn a lot from the people there about 388 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 2: tolerance and living alongside big predators. 389 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: So the leopards don't particularly target people. 390 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: Previously, there were a few attacks, and that was generally 391 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: on very young children. A lot of the areas where 392 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: the park meets the city slum areas, and these areas 393 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: have very poor sanitation. So previously a lot of the 394 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: children were going into the forest at night to go 395 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: to the bathroom, and they were bending over to go 396 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 2: to the toilet in the dark. And it wasn't that 397 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: the leopard was like a man eater. It's just a 398 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: case of mistaken identity if you think a child bent 399 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 2: over really small looks just like their kind of more 400 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: natural wild prey. And so what the local government did, 401 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: which was brilliant, was they put in much better sanitation, 402 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: lots of education on don't let your kids go into 403 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: the forest at night by themselves and all that stuff. 404 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: And now they live alongside each other. And you know 405 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: what was really amazing was meeting those people that lived 406 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: in the slums that literally have nothing, yet they are 407 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: so tolerant of living alongside these predators. We also spent 408 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: time with more affluent people that lived in an apartment 409 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: building right on the border of the park. And I 410 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: remember we were setting up some cameras on one of 411 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 2: the first nights we were there, and this man came 412 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: down onto the bridge that we were setting up this 413 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: camera on and he said, what are you doing. Why 414 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: are you here? And I said, oh, well, we're here 415 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 2: to photograph the leopards, and he was like, leopards. I've 416 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: lived in this apartment building for eleven years and I've 417 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: never seen a leopard here. There are no leopards here now. 418 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: Of course, we were working with scientists we knew there 419 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: were leopards there, but it just goes to show how 420 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: good these leopards are at staying out of sight and 421 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: being incredibly elusive. You know, they don't want to be seen, 422 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: they don't want the trouble. And what was great was 423 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 2: that towards the end of the filming shoot, this guy 424 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 2: came back and found us and he said, actually, I've 425 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 2: been staying up the last few nights to see if 426 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: you were right, and yeah, I saw a left run 427 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: past my bedroom window. And he was really excited about it. 428 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: That's cool, you know, he wasn't going, oh no, I 429 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: hate leopards. He was really excited about seeing that. 430 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: I think I have seen your series on the Wolves 431 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: of Vancouver Island. Absolutely fascinating series. 432 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: Oh thanks. Those wolves are pretty amazing because I think 433 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: when most people think of wolves, they think of places 434 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: like Yellowstone National Park, Alaska, you know, pax hunting elk 435 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: and bison. Meanwhile, these wolves, Coastal Wolves of British Columbia. 436 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: They live on the beach and they get up to 437 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: ninety percent of their diet from the ocean. They're eating 438 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: crabs and otters and muscle and very cool animal and 439 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: they have a. 440 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: Very complicated family structure that bonds together. It's really really, 441 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: really well done. 442 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, that's very kind. Well, you know, those wolves, 443 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: like wolves around the US and Canada, just need more protection. 444 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: I mean, they're fascinating social mammal and of course the 445 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 2: challenge in many places with wolves is conflict with livestock. 446 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 2: But I think we've kind of forgotten how to live 447 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 2: alongside predators, and that goes around the world. And I 448 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: think those Indian people that I mentioned in Mumbai are 449 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: a great example of people that have learned to live 450 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: alongside predators. And that's a very very special thing. 451 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: Because I understand that you're only thirty and you've done 452 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: all these things. It's like you could have had a 453 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: lifetime and done these things. You have a huge career 454 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: ahead of you. 455 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: That's very kind. Yeah, I'm not very going to sit still. 456 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: I don't really do relaxing. 457 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: If somebody got excited by all this and they wanted 458 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: to become a National Geographic photographer, what would you give them. 459 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: I think all too often people's knee jerk reaction to 460 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: wanting to film wildlife for nash Geographic is, oh, I 461 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: need a really big, expensive camera, for many people. I 462 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: understand that's really hard to get your hands on. Like 463 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 2: when I was younger, I couldn't get my hands on 464 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: the camera that I'm using now. But I don't think 465 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: you need to worry about that, especially when you're starting out, 466 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: because so much more important than your technical ability with 467 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: the camera is your knowledge of wildlife and your ability 468 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: to find animals and get close to them without disturbing them. 469 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: That's really really important. One because of course we want 470 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: to film natural behavior, but also because if we're trying 471 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: to film wildlife and get people excited about wildlife, if 472 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: we're disturbing the wildlife and the process, then that's just 473 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: not right. So I'd say working on that, And I've 474 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 2: been lucky enough to have lots of mentors, and I've 475 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: worked with lots of scientists and guides and experts that 476 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: have kind of trained me with various different animals. But 477 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 2: nothing can quite beat firsthand experience. And you get that 478 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: from just spending time outside in nature. So whether you 479 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: live in a wild place or in the middle of 480 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 2: the city, there are still wild animals to be found inties, 481 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 2: and you can learn a lot about the movements of 482 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: animals and how to track them, and I'd say that's 483 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: the most important. Of course, technical ability with a camera 484 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 2: is important, but we live in this incredible age where 485 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: we all have a camera, even if that's on your phone. 486 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: We have access to this free broadcasting platform you know 487 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 2: that is YouTube or Instagram, all these social media channels. 488 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: We have amazing broadcasting capabilities. It's really democratized the industry. 489 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 2: And so I'd say, make films, whether that be on 490 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: your phone or a bigger camera if you have one, 491 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 2: and learn to edit, learn to narrate, all of these things. 492 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: Even if you don't want to be an editor, learning 493 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: how to edit will make you a better camera person. 494 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: Make your films, put them on YouTube, put them on Instagram, 495 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: get feedback. The first ones are we rubbish, and that's fine. 496 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: You make mistakes and learn and get better. 497 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: I hope over the you'll come back and join us 498 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: starting with when you're allowed to talk about the rest 499 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: of secrets of the penguins. But it's fascinating. As somebody 500 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: who loves wildlife, I'm thrilled to have this opportunity. I 501 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: can't encourage too strongly all of our listeners to go 502 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: to YouTube find the penguins. It's one of the most 503 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: amazing videos I've ever seen. It's just remarkable. Bertie, I 504 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining me. The work you're 505 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: doing with National Geographic truly is extraordinary, and I hope 506 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: you'll come again, maybe next to April. Tell us about 507 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: Secrets of the Penguins, and then as you do future projects, 508 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: keep us in mind, because we'd like to sort of 509 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: keep track of what amazing things you're doing and help 510 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: publicize them. And I want to encourage our listeners who 511 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: like to find more amazing Earth moonth content check out 512 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: our home collection on Disney Plus and they can learn 513 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: more about the historic penguin leap at NatGeo dot com. 514 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: Truly remarkable sites, and I'm very grateful that you're here. 515 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: Wow. Thanks very much for having me. Great to chat 516 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 2: with you, and I should say if anyone is interested 517 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: in my work with Nasty Gaffe, you can also follow 518 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: me on Instagram. It's at Bertie Gregory or TikTok if 519 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: you're on that and on that fun staff. 520 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Bertie Gregory. You can watch 521 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: the video of the Emperor Penguins on our show page 522 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gagrish, Sweet 523 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Slow. Our 524 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 525 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley special thanks to the team of 526 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: Gingerishweet sixty. If you've been enjoying nuts World, I hope 527 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 528 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 529 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of neut 530 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns 531 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: at gaglichswe sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 532 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: This is newts World.