1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: or god forbid a toy gun that's just going to 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: end up in the garage. Give them something that matters, 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: and what matters the most is protecting their child. What 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: do you love most in the world your children? What 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: with these smartest people I know in the world on 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: payment starting six ninety nine. Give that as a gift, 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: not another one ze. Find out how to protect your 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: child when you're out of the mall or the store, 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: or the grocery, in the parking lot at home. Find 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: rather have that any day of the week than a 22 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: plastic toy or God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: go to crimestops here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: Will he beat the rat Again? What we have learned 25 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: from two sources who are familiar with the ongoings of 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: the case is that there has been an indictment filed 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: on Robert SERVESTL Kelly, also known of course worldwide as 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: the R and B singer R. Kelly. What we have 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: learned over time is we first reported about the grand 30 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: jury that had convened. We understand that that grand jury 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: actually convened last week, it also convened this week, and 32 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: that some of this has to do with the women 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: that have come forward accusing him of some kind of 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: sexual abuse. We also know that last week Attorney Michael 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: Avanatti was able to hand over a tape to the 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: States Attorney's office here in Chicago, indeed, the Cook County 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: States Attorney's Office, as we understand it now from two sources, 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: has indicted R. Kelly. We do not yet know, and 39 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: we are efforting trying to get a hold of the 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: indictment to find out exactly what he has been indicted with. 41 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: But this is a huge development. As you know, R 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: Kelly back in two thousand and eight went to trial. 43 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: He was to trial on fourteen counts of child pornography. 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: He was acquitted in that trial. And in that trial 45 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: there was also physical evidence, including a tape videotape that 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: prosecutors at the time says was a girl that was 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: thirteen years or fourteen years old and R Kelly involved 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: in sexual acts that had been recorded by r Kelly. 49 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: But he was acquitted on those charges because the jury 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: said they simply could not positively beyond a reasonable doubt 51 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: and being able to identify R Kelly or the girl, 52 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: even though they brought a lot of witnesses to say otherwise. 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: There were witnesses in that particular case that said opposite things, 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: and so the jury just was not able to go 55 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: forward with a conviction. R Kelly has always maintained that 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: he is innocent of all the charges and accusations that 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: have been coming at him for the past twenty years. 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: Now Here we are in twenty nineteen, eleven years after 59 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: that case went to trial and he was acquitted, we 60 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: are seeing now more charges against singer r Kelly. You 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: hear from our friends Sirius Seidner. R Kelly behind bars 62 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: still hasn't made one hundred thousand dollar bond. What's the 63 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: hold up? Robert Sylvester Kelly will spend another night behind bars. 64 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: He has been indicted and booked on ten counts of 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: aggravated criminal sex abuse. Straight out to Crime online dot 66 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, PSI, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 67 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Robin Wilinsky, Crime online 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life, the CSI 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon, Robin, what happened? Well, 70 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: here's the story. Nancy R. Kelly has been charged with 71 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: the ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. These are 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: allegations that stem from many years, from nineteen ninety eight 73 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: to twenty ten, involving four females, three who were at 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: the time teenage girl teenage girls. When you say teen girls, 75 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: Robin Olenski, are you talking thirteen or nineteen? Oh, we're 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: talking thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, young, very young who idolized this man. 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: Guys are talking about Kelly. Robert Sylvester Kelly, age fifty two, 78 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: set to spend another night in jail. Robin Lensky, Crime 79 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about the arrest 80 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: and the booking. Well, here's the situation. He actually R. 81 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: Kelly turned himself in in Chicago to the police department, 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: and there were many many reporters, both in mainstream news 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: and entertainment reporters, all their shouting questions at him, did 84 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: you do it? Are you guilty? And he said nothing. 85 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: He turned himself into the police and he was booked. 86 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: And then the next day the judge he had a 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: bond hearing and he was being held on a million 88 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: dollar bond. Has to put up one hundred thousand cash 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: to get out, and so far, Nancy, he hasn't come 90 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: up with the money. Here's this guy who allegedly has 91 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: all this money and is worth millions and billions of dollars, 92 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: and he can't come up with a hundred thousand dollars 93 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: to get out. We are talking about R. Kelly. In 94 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: the last hours, he has been booked, fingerprinted. He is 95 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: behind bars right now on ten counts of aggravated sex assault. 96 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: Prosecutors alleged one of the women was an underaged girl 97 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: who Kelly solicited when he was on trial for child 98 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: porn back in two thousand and eight. Let me introduce 99 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: my all star panel. Robin Wolinski, Crime online dot Com 100 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Newcomer today, Let the hazing begin. Brad Micklin, 101 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: New Jersey lawyer, doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned California's psychoanalyst, Vincent Hill, 102 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: cop turned PI, author of playbook to a murder on Amazon. 103 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard here in the studio, Alan Duke joining me 104 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: from La. Brad Micklin, you're the high profile defense lawyer. 105 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: According to sources, one of the women was an underaged 106 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: girl Kelly solicited while he's on trial for child porn 107 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: back at two thousand and eight. Remember that, Brad Micklin, 108 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: what if your client jumped up and he's on video 109 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: with a fourteen year old girl having sex, and then 110 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: you're innate center mouth. I mean, I didn't want to 111 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: say that, but that's the trip. That's what happened, Brad Micklin. 112 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: And during that, during that trial, he solicits another under 113 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: a girl. Well, if it's true, Nancy, it's obviously repulsive. 114 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: But with regard to the current charges facing him, there 115 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: are many issues that they need to get passed. First, 116 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: there are going to be statute limitation issues because these 117 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these actions were back in the late nineties. 118 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: You got this documentary out that's going to came to 119 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Jewelry Pool, and you have adding Natti with his hands 120 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: into the evidence before the prosecutors even got to it. 121 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: So I think long before we start to judge him 122 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: on whether or not he did this, we have to 123 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,239 Speaker 1: see whether there's a basis for him to move forward 124 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: on it. Okay, first of all, the only thing that 125 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: I heard that makes carries any water with me is 126 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: the Abanati issue. You know what, Abanatti has seemed to 127 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: land in the middle of every controversy he's involved with 128 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: the Stormy Daniels issue, then he somehow injected himself in 129 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: the me to campaign, and now this I have a 130 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: problem with him having state's evidence first as well. But 131 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: that aside, This is a very interesting fact Brad Micklin 132 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: and I did not know this until I started very 133 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: carefully researching the law. The law has changed in multiple 134 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: jurisdictions where the statute of limitations no longer applies in 135 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: cases like this, and it's retroactive, which I was very 136 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: surprised about, which means that if you commit a crime, 137 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: say you committed the crime in two thousand. The two 138 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: thousand law doesn't apply anymore. You get the two nineteen law. 139 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: That's very rare, very rare under our constitution. But it's happened. 140 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: So statute of limitations is not going to help him. 141 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned California psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, I 142 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: mean the nerve while he's on trial for child porn, 143 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: got a jury, the works. According to these prosecutors, he 144 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: slits us another little girl, Nancy. He's compulsive. I mean, 145 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: he is a sex predator, predators, predate. The attorney who 146 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: was giving the press her this morning kept talking about 147 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: the fact that there was more than five years age 148 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: difference between him and his victims. She said it again 149 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: and again and again. And what that tells me is 150 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: she's trying to say he's not your average rund of 151 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: the mill sex predator. He is a pedophile. The criteria 152 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: for pedophilia is that there is more than five years 153 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: age difference between the offender and the victim, and that 154 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: the victor victim is prepubescent. Now, the youngest one was 155 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: thirteen years old, so she was on the cusp. But 156 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: as you just mentioned that there was another case when 157 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: he was brought up on charges of child pornography. So 158 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: this guy just can't stop himself. His whole life is 159 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: organized around the compulsion. And I think, Nancy, that this 160 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: is why he doesn't have any money. How can you 161 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: make money when all want to do is have sex 162 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: with little kids? It ruins your entire life. This is 163 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: all he can do. He's this talented musician, but I 164 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: bet most of his waking hours are thinking about obtaining 165 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: access to children and having sex with him. Well. Also, 166 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: if reports are true, he is keeping up at least 167 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: six different properties in the Atlanta area alone, plus whatever 168 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: he's got going on in Chicago housing all of these 169 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: women that are in his harem. And that is a 170 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: euphemistic way to put it, you know what. Let me 171 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: just put it like this. I've told many a jury 172 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: and Brad Micklin is going to shudder during this. The story. 173 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: At the end of a closing argument about mister Scorpion 174 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: and mister Turtle, mister Scorpion meets mister Turtle at the 175 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: side of the river and says, please just carry me across, 176 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: and Turtle says, oh no, mister Scorpion because you will 177 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: surely bite me and we will both go to the 178 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: bottom of the river and I will die. But Scorpion says, 179 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: I promise, Why would I kill my self? Sub begrudgingly, 180 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: Turtle takes him across the river. Halfway across, Turtle feels 181 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: a pain in his neck and he says, mister Scorpion, 182 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: you bit me. Now we will both die, and Scorpion says, 183 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: I can't help it, It's just my nature. Earlier today, 184 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: Robert Kelly was indicted before a Cook County grand jury 185 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: on ten counts of aggravated criminals sexual abuse involving four victims. 186 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: The first victim, INITIALS HW, was involved in incidents which 187 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: occurred between May twenty six to nineteen ninety eight and 188 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: May twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine. A grand jury returned 189 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: an indictment on four counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse 190 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: based on the victim being under the age of seventeen 191 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: and Robert Kelly being more than five years older than 192 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: the victim. The second victim, Initials r L, was involved 193 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: in an incident which occurred between September twenty sixth, nineteen 194 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: ninety eight and September twenty fifth, two thousand and one, 195 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: a grand jury returned an indictment on two counts of 196 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the victims being under 197 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: the age of seventeen and Robert Kelly being more than 198 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: five years older than that victim. The third victim, initials LC, 199 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: was involved in an incident which occurred February eighteenth, two 200 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: thousand and three. A grand jury returned an indictment on 201 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: one count of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the 202 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: transmission of seamen by Robert Kelly upon any part of 203 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: the body of the victim for the purpose of sexual 204 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: gratification during the course of an underlying felony of attempt 205 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: criminal sexual assault. The fourth victim, initials JP, was involved 206 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: in incidents which occurred between May first, two thousand and 207 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: nine and January thirty first, two thousand and ten. A 208 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: grand jury returned in indictment on the three counts three 209 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the victim 210 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: being under the age of seventeen and Robert Kelly being 211 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: more than five years older than the victim. Aggravated criminal 212 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: sexual abuse is a class to felony with the sentencing 213 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: range of three to seven years for account. It is 214 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: also probation of alle We anticipate that mister Kelly will 215 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: appear in bond court tomorrow afternoon. Thank you. You are 216 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: hearing the prosecutor outline all of the charges against R 217 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: and B. Starr, R Kelly, Robert Sylvester Kelly. And right 218 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: now he's sitting in the can. There's just no nice 219 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: way to put it. He's behind bars trying to drum 220 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: up the money to make bond. Joining me Robert Wilinsky, 221 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Brad Micklin to Vincent Hill, 222 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: cop turned PI, author of playbook to a Murder on Amazon. 223 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: You know they go all the way back to nineteen 224 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: ninety eight for these claims, which show me the statute 225 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: of limitation is not an effect based on new legislation. 226 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: A lot of defense attorneys, probably including Brad Micklin, but 227 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: certain our Kelly's lawyer is going to argue to a 228 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: jury that these clients are so old, why are they 229 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: just coming forward? Now? You know what jurr might fall 230 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: for that. But there are other counts as well. Vincent, 231 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: what did they have to do to get this information, 232 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: to get the evidence to show the case well, Mancy, 233 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad they did update the statue of limitations for 234 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: these gruesome crimes. I mean, this reminds me of a 235 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: Monica Lewinsky. You heard you got seamen on dresses, you 236 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: got seamen on shirts, you got seamen on blouses. So 237 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: the physical evidence is there. Thankfully, if we can get 238 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: past these statue of limitations, we can actually get a conviction. 239 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: And it's no wonder he's still sitting in jail and 240 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: he can't come up with one hundred grand. He's been 241 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: paying off women for years before closed on his house 242 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve because he had to go 243 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: and pay all these women in simbol cases. So there's 244 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: no wonder he's sitting in jail, and that's where he belongs. 245 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: Quite frank too, Doctor Bethany Marshall renounced California psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany. 246 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: You would think after the first jury trial where he's 247 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: actually brought up on felony charges of creating pornography with 248 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: a girl fourteen years old, you would think that that 249 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: would stop him. But it didn't. According to prosecutors, offenders 250 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: offend again and again and again, and they organize their 251 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: entire lives around the compulsion to offend, like see a 252 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: lesser compulsion. Let's take for example, alcoholism. An alcoholic might 253 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: get a job as a bartender. A pedophile might get 254 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: a job as a priest, or as a school teacher. 255 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: A sex offender pedophile might become a musician so he 256 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: can lure little girls, and he will remain undeterred even 257 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: when he has to pay out settlements. This is what 258 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: we saw with Michael Jackson. Remember settlement after settlement with 259 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: little boys. But the crimes went on and on. And 260 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: that's because there's also something called institutional sociopathy, where one 261 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: sociopath bands with another and then bands with another. These 262 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: people like r. Kelly, and we saw this with Harvey Weinstein, 263 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: they surround themselves with people who accommodate to their crimes, 264 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: so they are aided and embedded all over the place. 265 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: And that's why the offending pattern never stopped. To New 266 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: Jersey lawyer, high profile defense attorney Brad Nicklin joining us. 267 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: Brad Nicklin, what do you make of the fact that 268 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: some of the charges date back to nineteen ninety eight 269 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: and how would you attack that a trial? Well, and 270 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: that's going to be a problem. I mean, he's got 271 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: at this time several victims and several incidents. So you 272 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: first attack the statue of limitations because in Illinois the 273 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: limitations depend on whether or not there's collaboration, the age 274 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: of the offender, and the relationship that R. Kelly may 275 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: have had with that meaning was he in a position 276 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: of authority or where they personally claimed it. So as 277 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: a defense attorney, you're going to attack each specific event, 278 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: each specific victim and date to try to knock out 279 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: some of the claims. It's not going to be a 280 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: slam dunk on a statue of limitations issue, but you 281 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: can get rid of some of the offenses and some 282 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: of the victims and reduce what you're facing a trial. Guys, 283 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 1: when Brad and I are talking about statute of limitations, 284 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: what that means is under our jurisprudence, under our constitution, 285 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: after a certain period of time years, cases can no 286 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: longer be prosecuted. They are deemed too old. The evidence 287 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: is no longer as valid as it was before. That's 288 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: the rationale. So you have a limit on how many 289 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: years pass until you can no longer try the case. 290 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: This is what we know, Singer R. Kelly spending another 291 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: night behind bars. So far, he has not made bail 292 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: to get out prosecutors alleging he solicited underage girls for 293 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: sex even while he was on trial for child porn. 294 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: While he was on trial back in two thousand and eight, 295 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, Kelly still found time to talk to fans, 296 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: to sign autographs, to take photos, and meet and under 297 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: age girl he invited to his home and, according to them, 298 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: solicited for sex. Other accusers include a little girl who 299 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: met Kelly at her sixteenth birthday party, and a hair 300 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: addresser who expected to braid the singers here, only to 301 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: find out he wanted a sex act instead. He goes 302 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: on and on and on, but now he's really looking 303 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: at a heap of trouble. Now this is the person 304 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: you don't want to have a fender bender with. And 305 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: see Gloria already get out of the car in front 306 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: of you. Oh no, you do not listen to this. 307 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: We have an appointment today with the New York City 308 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: Police Department, who have as asked to meet with Faith 309 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: in further into of their investigation into potential victims of R. Kelly. 310 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: We will offer our full and complete cooperation in their investigation. 311 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta are also seeking information from 312 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: potential victims, and we plan to offer them our cooperation 313 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: as well. Mister Kelly, you may soon join the ranks 314 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: of Bill cos Be and Harvey Weinstein. Just as they 315 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: have been and are being held accountable for their actions, 316 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: You also must be accountable to Robert Wilensky, author of 317 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: Beautiful Life and Crime Online dot com investigative reporter, where 318 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: you can find this and every other breaking news item 319 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: in justice and criminal law. Robin Wilensky, how did Gloria 320 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: already get involved? Well, Gloria Alread is now representing one 321 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: of the underage girls who has claims against R. Kelly. 322 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: You know what, Nancy, when I've been researching this case 323 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: and covering it over time, what comes to my mind 324 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: though about this? Remember what your grandmother used to say 325 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: to you. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Now, all of 326 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: these are allegations, but you start building your case and 327 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: it goes back to nineteen ninety eight, and then you 328 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: know they're stuff prior to that, and then it goes 329 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: on and on and on. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Meanwhile, 330 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: Glauria Alread again. You don't want to tangle with her 331 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: involved in representing one of these underage girls crime stories 332 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Faith is not the only alleged victim 333 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: whom R. Kelly has attempted to intimidate into silence. In 334 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: response to the allegations of his many alleged victims as 335 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: contained in the recent Lifetime documentary, Kelly's attorney has appeared 336 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: to threaten a lawsuit against Lifetime, and according to news reports, 337 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: someone associated with Kelly's team launched a Facebook page called 338 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: Quote Surviving Lies to allegedly discredit his accusers. Reports indicated 339 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: that the page was quote swiftly taken down for violating 340 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: Facebook's policy on bullying or sharing others contact information. News 341 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: reports also claim that mister Kelly is threatening to sue 342 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: everyone involved in the documentary. Mister Kelly's attorney, Stephen Greenberg, 343 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: said the singer will quote hopefully sue Lifetime in his 344 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: first interview with ABC News since the release of Lifetime 345 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: Surviving R. Kelly, I say to mister Kelly and his attorney, 346 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: be careful what you hope for. All of these attempts 347 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: to intimidate and threaten our clients and others will not work, 348 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: mister Kelly. Your disgusting tactics will not prevent women who 349 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: alleged they were victimized from telling their truth. That as 350 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: atturning Gloria Allread. And I've got to tell you something. 351 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: I've got a soft spot for her, and this is 352 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: why I not always heard of her. And I worked 353 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: with her daughter, Lisa BlimE at Court TV for many 354 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: many years. Fine, fine woman, and long story short, when 355 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: I was out covering the Scott Peterson trial and I 356 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: was there and meat with city for months and months 357 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: and months. I would get to the courthouse, okay, I'd 358 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: get there around six o'clock in the morning to start 359 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: doing morning TV, stay for the whole day do Court TV, 360 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: and stay to do Larry King, which ended at that 361 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: time at night, at ten o'clock at night. When I 362 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: would finally leave the courthouse, I would notice that Gloria 363 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: Alread was there when I got there at six. When 364 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: I left at night, I remember her standing there in 365 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: her fancy Saint John's suit, working two cell phones, standing 366 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: at a stop sign, working work King. I'm telling you, 367 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: she's got a work ethic like nobody else. Gloria Alread. 368 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: And when she gets a hold of your case. It's 369 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: like a pit bulls got a hold of you. You You 370 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: get you got to get pliers, You got to get 371 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: a utensil to get her jaw off your case. Joining 372 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: me Brad Micklin, doctor Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Robin Wilenski. 373 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: So let me understand this. Robin Wilenski, this guy, he's 374 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: a music sensation, he's an icon. Can't put together the 375 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: bailm money. Yes, quite incredible, isn't it. Here's a guy 376 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: who wins three Grammys for his songs. He's writing songs 377 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: for other famous artists. He's got all these videos, he's 378 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: got all these homes, he's got all this fame, he 379 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: has all this fortune. And oh, by the way, I 380 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: can't come up with one hundred thousand dollars. It's actually 381 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond for each of 382 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: the four women. That's a million dollars bond. So he's 383 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: got to come up with a hundred thousand dollars in cash. 384 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: Kelly's lawyers asked for a lower bond amount, arguing that 385 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: his finances are a mess because he has just been 386 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: dropped by a second by another record label, but so 387 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: far that hasn't happened. The bond remains at one million dollars. 388 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: I want to outline exactly what the charges are too, 389 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. He is 390 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: accused of basically operating compounds, homes, town homes, condos, at 391 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: least six of them, where he houses young girls. They 392 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: start around age sixteen or so or younger, and they 393 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: live there for years. Everything they do, their food, what 394 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: they wear is controlled. They're given cell phones that they 395 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: can only die R. Kelly or his hinge people. They 396 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: cannot come out of their rooms or go into the hall. 397 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: They have to ask to go to the restroom. And 398 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: apparently there is a din mother of sorts that explains 399 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: to these young girls how they are to accommodate R. 400 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: Kelly's demands, what he wants them to do, and if 401 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: that video was any indication of what he wants them 402 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: to do urinating in their mouth. I'm just very surprised 403 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: it's taken so long, Doctor Bethany. How did it get 404 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: this far and what do you perceive of the acts 405 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: that he is committing. Well, King anthy. You know that 406 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: sex offenders on average offend for seventeen years before they 407 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: come to the attention of law enforcement or before they're 408 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: incarcerated prosecuted, So I'm not completely surprised by this. Look 409 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: how long everything went on with Harvey Weinstein before he 410 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: was prosecuted. But Nancy, we have to frame our thinking 411 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: appropriately about what R. Kelly is doing. This is not 412 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: a school teacher in a classroom that has targeted a 413 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: miner and is obsessed with that minor. This is a 414 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: leader of a sex cult. That's what he fancies himself 415 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: as being. This is a Warren Jeff This is a 416 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: David Koresh, This is a John of God. This is 417 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: somebody who has amassed wealth, properties compounds so he can 418 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: bring as many women in as possible as a part 419 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: of his harem. And then, as with leaders of any cults, 420 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: he systematically cuts them off from financial and social support. 421 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: He prevents some from calling their families. He begins to 422 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: deprive them of food, clothing, and autonomy, and slowly he 423 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: brainwashes them over time. So we're so fascinated by the 424 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: sexual aspect of the sex cult that we forget that 425 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: he is a run of the mill cult leader, as 426 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: any other cult leader would be again cutting off his 427 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: victims from outside support. He wants to be the sole 428 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: supplier of everything in their lives. And I think he 429 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: believed that this would go on and on and on, 430 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: this idea of not being able to post bail assure. 431 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: He has a lot of money and properties, but you 432 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: have to pour a lot of money into an obsession 433 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: like this. Nancy. He's supporting scores of women and paying 434 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: off other women at the same time in their families. 435 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: Brad Micklin, He's got another problem with me, a veteran 436 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: trial while you're out of New Jersey jurisdation, Brad Micklin. 437 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: Brad he owes nearly two hundred thousand dollars of child support, 438 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: so his money problems don't stop with just his bail issue. Now, 439 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: according to court documents, he owes almost two hundred grand 440 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: in unpaid child support and catch this the court ordered r. 441 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: Kelly to make monthly payments of about twenty grand back 442 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine. He didn't even show up 443 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: at the hearing, according to the court documents. Now, to 444 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: avoid being held in contempt a judge order, he paid 445 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: the entire amount one hundred and sixty one thousand by 446 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: March sixth. Of course, he didn't do it, and Greenberg, 447 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: his defense lawyer, says he doesn't have to pay the 448 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: child support before getting out of jail. On this, I 449 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: bet the court will disagree with that. Brad Micklin, I 450 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: think the court's going to hold him till he pays 451 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the child support plus the bond. I agree. Actually, Lucy Nancy, 452 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: I think even if they haven't ruled that way now, 453 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: I think the family court should be making some decisions 454 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: about not only what happens when he gets released, but 455 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: what happens when he does post a bell and comes 456 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: to court. What happens to one hundred thousand dollars? Does 457 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: it get returned to him or do attach it and 458 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: take it and pay it over to the child's part, 459 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: which I think is what ultimately will happen in this case. 460 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: That's some good maneuvering right there, so we wouldn't have 461 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: to pay both. I don't if the quart will go 462 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: for it, but it sure is a good theory. Joining 463 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: me Robin Malinsky, Vincent Hill, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Brad Micklin. 464 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: Vincent I noticed Atlanta jurisdiction has not prosecuted anything, and 465 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: they allegedly know of about six compounds that R Kelly 466 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: has in metro Atlanta. So what does Cook Counties Chicago 467 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: have that Atlanta doesn't have? You know what, Nancy, That's 468 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: an excellent question because I wondered the exact same thing, 469 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: and I want to expand on a little bit of 470 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: these charges. And then too, I read the indictment and 471 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: it I read where he said he choked women, he 472 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: spat on women. Listen, when I was the top, I 473 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: arrested people for that who are aggravated a salt. So 474 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: I don't know why there's not at least an aggravated 475 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: to salt charge thrown in here and maybe even out 476 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: of Atlanta, out of Portland County or decap County. Guys, 477 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: we are talking about R Kelly, the music superstar, behind 478 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: bars at this hour, trying desperately to make bond. Those 479 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: parents are desperately pleading for their daughter to come home, 480 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: claiming she's being held captive, but she says she's perfectly fine, 481 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: and R Kelly's attorney swinging back this morning, the family 482 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: of a woman allegedly living with embattled singer R Kelly 483 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: speaking out saying their daughter is being held against her 484 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: will in Chicago, and he knows how to manipulate young 485 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: girls and make them feel like this hold they have 486 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: twenty one year old Jocelyn Savage on several occasions denying 487 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: she's being held captive, even appearing without Kelly in this 488 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: TMZ video from last summer, people of sending you know, 489 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: captive and hostage wills. That's not true. I'm out here, 490 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, enjoy life and do my old days. I 491 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: need to get to my daughter because I know she's 492 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: been cahers. Kelly's attorney slamming the assertion Savage or any 493 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: other woman is being forced to stay tweeting Relax America. 494 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: Today's CPD visited R Kelly at home and spoke to 495 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: the two young ladies who lived with him in private. 496 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: Both told the police they are great, not hostages, not abused, 497 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: not victims. Chicago PD confirming that welfare call, telling ABC 498 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: News the women stated that they were not being held 499 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: against their will and are both in good health and spirits. 500 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: There was nothing out of the ordinary with the residents, 501 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: and the officers closed the call as unfounded. Kelly caught 502 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: in a web of controversy. A number of women recently 503 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: coming forward in the scathing Lifetime docuseries Surviving R. Kelly, 504 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: Can you describe the physical abuse? Kelly's defense team defiant 505 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: in the face of allegations of controlling and abusive behavior. 506 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: The man was not operating a harem or a sex cult, 507 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: or holding people hostage or anything like that. Now threatening 508 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: legal action for defamation because people shouldn't be able to 509 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: do this to someone. But a different picture from Jocelyn 510 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: Savage's parents, desperate to reunite with their daughter. We just 511 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: want to sit there and hold you and make sure 512 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: you fine, makes you okay. A list artists are now 513 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: voicing their concern after that docuseries, Christina Aguilera throwing her 514 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: support behind Lady Gaga's decision to pull her collaboration with R. 515 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: Kelly from streaming services. Kelly's attorney, as you heard, they're 516 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: promising this legal battle is far from over. You're hearing 517 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: our friend at ABC's GMA that was corresponding aerial ra 518 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: chef explaining in a nutshell what's going down right now? 519 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: R Kelly, the music superstar behind bars, trying to make 520 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: bond on serious felony counts of aggravated sex abuse. So far, 521 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: he hasn't made bond, but I predict that he will. 522 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: You know, another issue, Robin Willinski, that Vincent Hill and 523 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: I were discussing the difference between Chicago in Atlanta prosecutions 524 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: is something very very critical, Robin. It is critical, Nancy, 525 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: because see, in Chicago, we're told that there are videos, 526 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: there's DNA evidence, there's lots of stuff that they're going 527 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: to produce at trial. Here in Atlanta, my understanding is 528 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: that they don't have all of that. And my understanding 529 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: is is that the Savage parents, who you just heard 530 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: there in the cliff, they're very concerned about their daughter, 531 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: Joycelyn as they pronounced her name. And there's an interesting 532 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: little nugget in that when that statement came out where 533 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: the daughter and the other women say, oh, yeah, we're fine, 534 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: we're fine, there's a misspelling of Joycelyn's name in that document. 535 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: So the parents do not even believe that the daughter 536 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: was ever asked, did she ever write that she's fine. 537 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: They don't even believe that it's her in her own words. 538 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: They believe it's the r. Kelly pr machine that's making 539 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: statements on behalf of these women who are living in 540 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: his homes. But here in Atlanta, they do not have 541 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: the mountain of evidence as they do have in Chicago. 542 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: To Brad Micklin, New Jersey lawyer, trial veteran, now, prosecutors 543 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: say r Kelly would spit on the victim, slap the victim, 544 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: choke her, ejaculate on her. She actually saved a shirt 545 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: from one of the incidents and turned it over to 546 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: police who find a DNA match to r Kelly. This 547 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: is according to prosecutors. Brad. That's one of the issues 548 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: when you look at this case, there's so many distractions 549 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: from what the real facts and issues of this case are. 550 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: We had this cult enterprise. He's being charged with aggreated 551 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: criminal sexual abuse, which is a serious level felony, but 552 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: the lesser included is criminal sexual abuse. There's assault. If 553 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: any of these victims do have corroboration evidence or do 554 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: testify credibly before jewelry, there are many other offenses that 555 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: he can be convinced. We just keep looking to those 556 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: aggreated criminal because the allegations are sold gregious. But he's 557 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: facing serious problems no matter what turns out to be 558 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: the truth. We are talking about r Kelly sitting behind 559 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: bars right now. If he is convicted on all accounts, 560 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: r Kelly ad face up to seventy years behind bars. 561 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: Arrayment has been scheduled for Fab twenty eight to Dodgor 562 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, California psycho analyst. How do you expect him 563 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: to present in court? Oh, Nancy, He'll be calm, cool 564 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: and collected. You know what I was reading this morning 565 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: if he was just staring at the floor. Social paths 566 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: are very charming and affable. They don't have a sense 567 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: of wrongdoing. He doesn't think he hurt these victims. He 568 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: thinks he owns them. And you know, as far as 569 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: Chicago Child Protective Services calling on one of the compounds 570 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: and the girls said, hey, we're fine. Of course they're 571 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: going to say they're fine. They've been brainwashed by him. 572 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: They're victims. He has made them believe that he is 573 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: the sole provider of everything good in their life and 574 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: that without him they'd be nothing. He has engaged in 575 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: paranoid discourse, turning them away from their families and away 576 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: from the community. So a welfare check is never sufficient 577 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: in a case like this. We're going to see a 578 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: different R. Kelly in court. Then he shows his victims. 579 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: With his victims, he thinks he has power over them 580 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: in court, He's going to be nonchalant, arrogant, and act 581 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: as if he did absolutely nothing wrong. A lot has 582 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: been made about the entry entry of Michael Abnati attorney. 583 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: Listen to what he has to say. What's different about 584 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: the evidence that is now in the hand of the 585 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: state's attorney versus back in the nineties. Well, the quality 586 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: of the video evidence that we have provided and that 587 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: we're also going to be providing. We're going to be 588 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: providing some additional evidence here shortly, I think as far 589 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: superior than what prosecutors had at their disposal back in 590 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. We've provided the names and testimony 591 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: of a number of witnesses. There's documentary evidence. There's a 592 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: mountain of evidence relating to these criminal acts by R. Kelly, 593 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: and I don't think that Key nor his enablers are 594 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: going to be able to break the system like they 595 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 1: did in two thousand and eight. After twenty five years 596 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: it's over. Does the statution of limitations come into play here? 597 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: Because R. Kelly's attorney said a lot of this is 598 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: based on a VHS tape. Are these old accusations? Well, no, 599 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: they're not old accusations. And in fact, Illinois legislature had 600 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: the good foresight and thought back in twenty seventeen to 601 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: amend the Statue of Limitations to basically make it unlimited. 602 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: There was a prior amendment prior to that in twenty ten. 603 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't believe there's any statue limitations problems, and I 604 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: don't think there should be a statue limitations as it 605 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: relates to taking advantage of and sexually abusing and assaulting 606 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: young girls. Do you have any information about whether or 607 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: not Kelly's insular circle is starting to turn on him. 608 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: There's no question that the people that have surrounded him 609 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: for many years are starting to turn. And in fact, 610 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: like I said, I represent two whistleblowers that had knowledge 611 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: of R. Kelly, were close to him at one point 612 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: in time. They've turned, and I envisioned that a number 613 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: of other individuals will turn in the coming weeks and days. 614 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: You're hearing Michael Abanati, attorney speaking to WGN there in Chicago, 615 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: so to Brad Micklin, you know, speaking of his entourage, 616 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: his policy surrounding him, who basically many people argue enabled 617 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: all of this, enabled like they did Harvey Weinstein and others. 618 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,959 Speaker 1: They better cooperate or they're looking at jail time as well. 619 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: Brad Micklin, Well, and that can be the case. I mean, 620 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: if these allegations are true, whether one or all of them, 621 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: certainly they're going to be people that had knowledge and 622 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: facilitated this and cooperated. But when you listen out to not, 623 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean he's and you're going so far beyond the 624 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: scope of this case. He speaks of his clients to 625 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: six clients, only two of them are victims, two of 626 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: them are parents, the other two of whistleblowers. He's creating 627 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: the circus and it's distracting from the actual case. It 628 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the two thousand in HRIL 629 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: which he's now saying was rigged, and I'm sure he 630 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: has no proof of that either, but he's just going 631 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: on whatever he can to sensationalize these allegations, and it's 632 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: distracting from the simple case that being flourd victims. And 633 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: we need to decide whether they are going to be 634 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: prosecuting on Kelly based on these allegations or not. Not 635 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: Going back to two thousand and eight. Not going back 636 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: to his enterprises, Cult Enterprise, or these other people. We're 637 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: not focusing on whether or not he's actually guilty of 638 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: these offenses. Wait, wait as justice and falls r Kelly 639 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: back in court. FIB twenty eight, Nancy Grace's crime Story, 640 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye Friend,