1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and sixty seven, 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: airing in mid September of twenty twenty two. We are 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: going to be talking about quiet quitting and different ways 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: of working in general. We will also be talking about 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: fall fun. Many alliterations, as Sarah just pointed out to 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: be though, we seem to like repeating consonants in things. 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: So Sarah, as we're talking about how people work, you 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: recently shared the news both on this podcast and on 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: your blog about changing your work situation. So real quick 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: for anyone who is just coming to us now, can 20 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: you sort of give a quick recap of what's gone 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: on yeah, well, there have been a number of iterations 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: over the years. I at of residence or at a fellowship, 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: took a full time clinical job. Then a few years later, 24 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: I think I dialed down to eighty percent, but then 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: I ended up adding a leadership role in graduate medical 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: education and kind of found that that more knowledge work 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: type of role didn't necessarily lend itself as much to 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: being so part time, as I felt like my work 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: was bleeding into my quote unquote off time, and then 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: eventually went up to ninety percent and then up to 31 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: one hundred percent as that kind of evolved, which made sense. 32 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: But then I reevaluated and realized I really missed the 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: freedom and flexibility of being part time, and twenty percent 34 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: no longer felt like enough, and for complex reasons, I 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: decided to step down for my leadership role. Really a 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: bitter sweet decision, but I think the right one for 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: me right now, and settled on sixty percent as a 38 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: good compromise where I think I can really continue to 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: make a clinical impact and enjoy my clinical work three 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: days a week and then devote the rest of my 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: time to more flexible pursuits such as those related to 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: this podcast. Yay. Exciting. Well, we know a lot of 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: our listeners and your readers are excited to think that 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: they might be getting more shoe content in the course 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: of this trade off. So is it going to be 46 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: the same three days or how does that even work 47 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: when you set up clinical time? I mean, what does 48 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: that mean practically? Yeah, it's going to be like ultimately 49 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: a Monday, Wednesday, Friday situation, so that I can feel 50 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: on Tuesday and Thursday like I am not on the 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: clock for my workplace. I still will be taking call, 52 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: although at a proportional amount. And yeah, I think it's 53 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: going to work pretty well. And was there any pushback 54 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: from your organization about going part time or is that 55 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: something that people do relatively frequently. I don't know how 56 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: frequently it's done at my organization, but I have to 57 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: say they were incredibly supportive and I am really grateful 58 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: that they have let me make all these changes. I'm 59 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: not sure that would be true everywhere. Yeah, Well, we 60 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: wanted to sort of branch out from that to talk about, 61 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, how people are interacting with jobs and job 62 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: expectations and sort of the number of hours they work 63 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: and all that. Many people know that I am interested 64 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: in work hours and how people work them. There's a 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: phenomenon where, especially people who are in jobs that are 66 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: a little bit more free flowing, and things happen at 67 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: different times and it's not the same sort of in 68 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: a place every day. There is a tendency to sort 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: of overestimate how many hours we work, sometimes to a 70 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: comical degree. I often talk about a study that found 71 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: people claiming seventy five plus hour work weeks were off 72 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: by about twenty five hours, that that eighty hour work 73 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: week is in fact fifty five hours, and fifty five 74 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: hours is very long, but it is not eighty, which 75 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: is a different number. I have tracked my time for 76 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: a great many years. I was probably working roughly forty 77 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: hours a week for a long time, and then I 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: think these days it's probably more between thirty five and 79 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: forty on average. Some periods of time it winds up 80 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: being less just because of more household responsibilities. This summer 81 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: has been on the lower side because of various things. 82 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: I'm really hoping to ramp it back up a little 83 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: bit this fall and hit closer to forty, because I 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: do think it matters, like especially you know, in jobs 85 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: where you aren't doing the same thing with all those 86 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: forty hours. There are things you wind up doing when 87 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: you're working more hours, obviously to a point of diminishing returns, 88 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: but that you sort of invest in moving your career forward. 89 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean the things like the networking, investing in knowledge 90 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: or improving your skills, all the things that I talk 91 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: about paying into your career cappital And I know that 92 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: from my perspective, those things do wind up getting short 93 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: shrift when my hours go too low. So yeah, it's 94 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: always a question of you know, figuring out what you 95 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: want to be investing in. I know Sarah is looking 96 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: to invest in lots of different, you know, creative projects 97 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: right now, which is really awesome. There's been a phenomenon 98 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: Sarah has been following this of quiet quitting. What drew 99 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: you to this phrase that you keep looking fighting and 100 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: mentioning Sarah? Well, first, it's an alliteration. It's an extremely 101 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: catchy phrase. So once I heard it, I would just 102 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: sort of thought it was very interesting. I think I 103 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: initially saw it on a little NPR piece, maybe Life Kid, 104 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: or maybe just some little blurb on the news, and 105 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: then have delved into it a little bit further in 106 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: part because I wondered if I had accidentally done a 107 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: version of this. And I don't mean to say that really, 108 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: because when I read about quiet quitting, it tends to 109 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: have an angle and we'll talk about what it is 110 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: in just one second, but I feel like it tends 111 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: to have an angle of like like a negative. I 112 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: don't know, like, how dare you exploit me? I'm gonna 113 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: show you kind of a vibe to it, And that 114 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: certainly was never really how I ended up lessening some 115 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: of my extra work committees and activities. But at the 116 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: same time, that's what drew my attention. Okay, so a 117 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: little background, and I did a little googling, a little 118 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: like googling, and I read via BBC work Life they wrote. 119 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: The phrase quiet quitting was popularized by user at zk chillin. 120 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a I think it's a 121 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: TikTok user in a July twenty twenty two video that 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: now has three point five million views, spawning an online phenomenon. 123 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: You're not outright quitting your job, but you're quitting the 124 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: idea of going above and beyond. He explained, You're still 125 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: performing your duties, but you're no longer subscribing to the 126 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: hustle culture mentality that work has to be your life. 127 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: The reality is it's not, and you're worth as a 128 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: person is not defined by your labor. This was his quote, 129 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: not mine, so I read further and it sounds like, 130 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, one version of quiet quitting is you're clocking 131 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: in at when you're supposed to do. Maybe it's nine o'clock, 132 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: maybe it's a thirty, and you're leaving on time, and 133 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: you're doing all of your kind of required job descriptions. 134 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: You're cranking out whatever wiges you're supposed to crank out, 135 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: but you're not going at all above that expectation, and 136 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: you're really not giving any additional hours to your work. 137 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know. I like Laura's going to talk 138 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: about like this not being new, and I agree with that. 139 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: I don't have a value judgment on that necessarily as 140 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: being good or bad. I mean, to some extent, I 141 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: wonder if people that kind of are more careful with 142 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: not doing a lot of extra stuff, how do I 143 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: put this? They might be more sustainable in their jobs 144 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: over time because they do have time to sleep or 145 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: take care of themselves. They might be you know, just 146 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: living more balanced lives and in spending more time doing 147 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: other hobbies. Who knows, maybe they'll bring more creative and 148 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: original ideas to their actual work during work hours. Like 149 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: I don't think this is so incredibly black and white. 150 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just have really mixed feelings about it. 151 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: I also don't think that I really quiet quit, but again, 152 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: there was sort of some version of that in that 153 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: spawned by the pandemic. I ended up on all these 154 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: committees that were meeting on WebEx, which is like our 155 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: version of Zoom, and that was really sustainable when everything 156 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: was virtual, and then when it wasn't, I was like, no, no, no, 157 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: my life is a disaster. And how did I end 158 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: up on ten committees? And I don't want to do 159 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to start work every day 160 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: at seven thirty am. How did this happen? And then 161 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: I kind of scaled back to just my core responsibilities. 162 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: So this was way before deciding to go part time, 163 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: and I did not know the term quiet quitting whatsoever. 164 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: But then when I look back on it, I'm like, 165 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: does it look like I did? I don't know. Well, 166 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons that this becomes a 167 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: thing that's then written about is because it can bring 168 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: about so many different interpretations. So there's one version where 169 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: this is just a new name for doing the bare 170 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: minimum at your job, which is what many millions of 171 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: people have no doubt done for eons. Right, Like there's 172 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: always been people who, you know, for whatever reason, there's 173 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: some folks who, let's say, are three years from retirement 174 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: and are just phoning it in at this point but 175 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: waiting for a pension to vest. And so, yes, you 176 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: come in, you do exactly what you're supposed to do, 177 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: You do nothing more, you leave when it's done. You know, 178 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: there are people who are in a stage of life 179 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: where they don't care about a particular job for one 180 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: reason or another. They need the money, but it's not 181 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: where their their mind is. You know, some people don't 182 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: enjoy working in general, right, I mean, there's all sorts 183 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: of reasons that somebody might do the bare minimum of 184 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: their job. I think, you know, then there's other interpretations 185 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: of it, which is that, you know, some jobs are 186 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: by their nature meant to be kind of we're all consuming, 187 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: and people pushing back against that, and I think that's 188 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: a different matter, right, that's somebody setting more boundaries, which 189 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: may be more what you were doing that you just 190 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: you know, decide like I don't need to push for 191 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: every single extra thing. You know, it's fine to do 192 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: a good job. So we're not talking the bare minimum 193 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: of the job, but doing a good job, but not 194 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: necessarily being like I am angling to be, you know, 195 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: the CEO of my hospital system in two years, and 196 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: so I'm going to do everything to make that happen. Right. 197 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: That's that's sort of you know, a different version of it, 198 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: which I think a lot of us could be way 199 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: more into. I mean by that means we're all quiet quitting. 200 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: I think that is such an important as you were 201 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: saying that, that actually like litt up light bulbs on 202 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: my head because no, no, no, I want to be excellent. 203 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: I don't even just want to be good. I want 204 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: to be excellent during work hours. I want to take 205 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: excellent care of my patients. I just got to a 206 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: point where I didn't feel like I wanted to do 207 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: extra things heaped on top of that that weren't really 208 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: my primary job role, but like might have had career 209 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: like leadership implications later on, if that makes sense, And 210 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: I guess maybe that's not the same thing as quiet quitting. 211 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: To me, that's okay. Whereas the idea of like going 212 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: to work with a scowl in your face and like 213 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: basically dumping work on other people and doing the bare 214 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: miniam not to get fired like that, that does sound 215 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: very negative to me. And I guess I'm unclear on 216 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: which which one. Yeah, I think that's it. People could 217 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: interpret it all sorts of different ways. And then I mean, 218 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: there's a third sort of view of this, not just 219 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: not even so much quiet quitting, but one person that 220 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: was interviewed in a story on quiet quitting, I'm like, 221 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: this needs an totally different, you know, other word. But 222 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: they were interviewing a woman who had in the past 223 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,239 Speaker 1: done more intense jobs that were more sort of cerebral, 224 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: and she decided at some point to take a job 225 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: in a warehouse. And you know, she goes in for 226 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: eight hours a day, she does exactly the tasks that 227 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: are assigned her. Nobody's pushing to do anything else. I mean, 228 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: maybe there are people who, I'm sure, you know, people 229 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: would probably love to have her end management moving up, 230 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: But you can, in fact just do the job that 231 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: is in front of you, and that is what you 232 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: are supposed to do. You don't have to think about 233 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: it afterwards. You come in and you are assigned these 234 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: tasks for the eight hours, and you do them and 235 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: then you are done and you go home and you 236 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: don't think about it, right, And so I think that's 237 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: even a third version of this, which sometimes people want 238 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: to have jobs like that for various reasons. I mean, 239 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: maybe they have a very intense side hustle, they are 240 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: launching or creative projects that they want to focus on 241 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: where they don't want to put mental energy into whatever 242 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: it is the job that is then earning them money. Yes, No, 243 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: that totally makes sense, and that's very interesting warehouse worker 244 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: like attorney to warehouse worker. To me, there's a little 245 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,119 Speaker 1: bit of like a i don't know, like a meditative 246 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: quality to that, Like that's kind of like the modern 247 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: day version of going to an ashrom for two years, 248 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna work for Amazon, I don't know. I mean, 249 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: though they could be really intense, I don't think it 250 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: was Amazon because I think there are some conditions there 251 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: that sometimes has been correct and you know, people worried 252 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: about with being very intense jobs. I think this is 253 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: more sort of a job that was taken precisely because 254 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: it was sort of not a very intense way to 255 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: spend eight hours. So you know, different places are different, 256 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, do you think this is something 257 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: that I mean, with the idea of setting healthy boundaries 258 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: is just entirely different. And what does that sort of 259 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: look like? I mean, if somebody's thinking about this, if 260 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: they're thinking, well, I don't want to quit my job, 261 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: but I do need to make it more sustainable, I mean, 262 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: what do you think they should be thinking about then? 263 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I would pay attention to what you feel 264 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: like the core part of your job is, and which 265 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: parts are maybe either non rewardable or might even be 266 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: taking away from the core part of your job, and 267 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: where are they going to lead, Like if you're on 268 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: not all work is promotable work, And we actually may 269 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: have a guest with this expertise, and a lot of 270 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: people feel like a lot of that non promotable work 271 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: tends to be done by women. And we've actually gotten 272 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: I've gotten some really mind blowing comments on my blog 273 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: when I was writing about this, Like there was a 274 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: woman who was very high up in her organization but 275 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: was like the only one who knew how to set 276 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: up like the zoom equipment and order lunch, and like 277 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: when she wasn't there, all these men were like floundering 278 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: around and like that's extra work she was doing, but 279 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: that's not promotable work. I mean that is just like 280 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: I think she should quietly quit ordering lunch. Like that's 281 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: not that's not part of that's not going to advance her. 282 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: She's not learning, she's not, you know, contributing what she 283 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: does best. So I guess really looking and into yourself 284 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: and being like what do I want to excel at? 285 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: Like what am I really here to do? Like what 286 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: matters in this role and does it fit within the 287 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: time constraints? Like for me, part of this was Okay, 288 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: I want to be able to really focus on clinic. 289 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: When I'm at clinic. I don't want to get fifteen 290 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: emails about like you have to present at this meeting 291 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: and that meeting and like be trying to cram to 292 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: present an X meeting like between patients. Like I actually 293 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: at some point felt like, you know, these extras were 294 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: kind of making my core roles more difficult, if that 295 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: makes sense, and they weren't leading me down any specific 296 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: track like being on the peer Review committee. Like if again, 297 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: if I was eventually seeking to be CMO or take 298 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: some big leadership role, then having a lot of committee 299 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: memberships and eventually like leading those committees would be important. 300 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: But that's actually not where my dreams have really ever been. 301 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: When I searched within myself, I was like, no, I 302 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: want to be an excellent clinician and I want to 303 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: like honestly, I mean, now I've finally figured out, after 304 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: a lot of soul searching, I want to grow my 305 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: creative endeavors. I don't want to be CWO or CMO 306 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: or whatever that is. So that helped me figure out 307 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: where it made sense to set boundaries. And that's why 308 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: you're right, I do not think I quietly quit. Well, also, 309 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: you didn't quit, so there's yeah. I mean, and if 310 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: somebody's maybe this phrase came because it's the alternative to 311 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: actually quitting. That if somebody is really feeling burnt out 312 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: in a job, then you you know, many times people 313 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: think they do need to quit, and so this would 314 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: be a way to not quit. But to get some 315 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: of the benefits of quitting is to kind of take 316 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: away all the pressure you would put on yourself to 317 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: keep doing more and more. But I think if we 318 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: just view it in the sense of setting healthy boundaries, 319 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: then it's an entirely different matter whatsoever. And then, you know, 320 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: we could go through phrases of quietly quitting, you know, 321 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: here and there, like I'm going to quietly quit this 322 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: week because I've just got a lot of stuff going 323 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: on in my personal life, but then I'm back at 324 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: it next week. And probably a lot of our listeners 325 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: have gone through more intense periods and then less intense 326 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: periods when life, your personal life, for instance, might be 327 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: have a lot going on and you need to take 328 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: a little step back to deal with that, but aren't 329 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: in a position to officially go part time or may 330 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: not want to. So I think that's something people do. Well, 331 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick ad break and we'll 332 00:16:45,800 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: be back with the second half of this episode. All right, 333 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: we're back. And while we were gone, I was trying 334 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: to think of different alliterations we could use for our version, 335 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: and I came up with like beautiful boundary setting and 336 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: powerful prioritization. But I don't think either of those are 337 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: going to well. I like that take over. Those are great, 338 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: So we are beautiful boundary setters, and we are powerful prioritizationers. 339 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: We are not quietly quitting. We're doing other things. Yes, 340 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: so that's great. Shall we talk about fall? Now? Is 341 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: it time to talk about falls? It's totally time to 342 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: talk about fall. We're probably who does They'll be like 343 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: some heat wave when this is airing in mid mid September, 344 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: and there always is And of course you don't really 345 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: have a fall at all, do you. I mean, there's 346 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: do leaves change, There's no, no way, there's Okay, so 347 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: there's absolutely no fall, certainly not in the fall months. 348 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: I mean maybe we have like fall like weather in 349 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: December or something like that. Maybe in November it cools down. 350 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: But I have decided, since I'm for the time being 351 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: not planning on going anywhere else, I'm gonna have to 352 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: figure out ways to embrace fall even when it's not fall. 353 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: And so I came up with some things, and I'm 354 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: planning to try to like really lean into fall this year, 355 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: even though it's going to be ninety degrees with eighty 356 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: seven percent humidity like it is every other day of 357 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: the year. All right, So what is on your embrace 358 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: fall list? Okay? So I want to do a Fall 359 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: reading list, and and Bogol always does a Fall reading list, 360 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: so I will look at her selections and as always 361 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: use that to help craft my selections. And to me, 362 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: fall reading is like some darker tone things, like some mysteries, 363 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: some things set in academic settings are always great for Fall. 364 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: I think I might help the kids find some like 365 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: spookier fall selections because we've been trying to work on 366 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: getting more stuff from our local library and like ordering 367 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: that ahead of time. So Fall reading list. Having fun 368 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: with my planner setups because that's just part of my 369 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: fall rhythm and routine around here, and I'm super excited. 370 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: By the time this airs. My hope Buonichi Banks from 371 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: Japan will probably already are riven and I'll be very happy. 372 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: We started this last year. We do an annual Trader 373 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: Joe's Pumpkin Extravaganza where you have to go in October. 374 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: September is too early, they don't have enough stuff. But 375 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: in October you can go and shop for everything pumpkin 376 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: and go home with like twenty different products and just 377 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: eat all of them and it's really really fun. We 378 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: had like a meal that was literally like pumpkin samosa 379 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: with pumpkin cookies on the side, with like crackers and 380 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: pumpkin jo I mean, it was like extra. It was 381 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: so much fun. I want to bake some kind of 382 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: apple dessert because I just I never do, and I 383 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: think that would be really fun. And then even though 384 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: we don't get fall weather, we still get to some 385 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: degree less than you do, but to some degree dark, 386 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: shorter days, and longer nights, and of course we get 387 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: the October time change. Maybe it's November, but you know, 388 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: fall time change. And so I want to lean into 389 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: that by lighting a few candles and trying to kind 390 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: of like hit that fall mood, maybe some fall sense. Yeah, 391 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm going to be a fall What is 392 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: that like, n meg? I don't know. Okay, Well, I 393 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: will preface this with the fact that one of my 394 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: favorite podcast, which is Girls next Door podcast, they do 395 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: a fall fun episode and one of their activities is 396 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: they buy fall scented candles and they have to guess 397 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: what the scent is called. And there are always things 398 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: like pine forest or like caramel apple crumble, or like 399 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know, there is that like 400 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: generic woodsy automny fallse smell, and I'm sure like missus 401 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: Myers are not a sponsor, by the way, or other 402 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: similar products will have some fall scented things I can 403 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: get my hands on, including candles candy as well. Yeah, no, 404 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: I have not. Maybe by the time this comes out, 405 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: I will have published my official Fall fun list, But 406 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: it always has things like apple picking. Even though my 407 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: favorite apples are more of a late summer fruit, the 408 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: honey crisp tend to be August in early September, not October, 409 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: so keep that in mind. Look, if you have a 410 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: favorite type of apple, look to see when it actually ripens, 411 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: because it may not be October, and if you are 412 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: pairing that with your fall fun fest, you may be 413 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: bitterly disappointed. I want to do a leaf peeping trip. 414 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: We'll probably go visit my brother again in Upstate New York. 415 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: They have a lot of very beautiful trees and leaves there, 416 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: and it's a little easier to get to than farther 417 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: north than that. Let's see what else. So yeah, apple 418 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: picking leaves, huh, I don't know. I mean, I think 419 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: it's a lot just getting outside and seeing the changing leaves, 420 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: Like really appreciating those times I do want to read 421 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: something fall related. Maybe I should listen to some fall music. 422 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: I definitely did that in the spring and got into 423 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: Aaron Copland's apple Achian Spring and some pieces like that. 424 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: So I think maybe if I find some sort of 425 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: fall music that would make me feel more in touch 426 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: with the season. But I always do really love fall. 427 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: It makes me there's something about I don't know, the 428 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: color that's out there. It's just so beautiful, and it's just, 429 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: I mean, extravagantly beautiful, Like why do we even get 430 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: these colors? Makes sense in the spring that things have 431 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: to flower and attract insects and birds to pollinate. They 432 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: could sort of see that more rationally, But the last 433 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: gasp of the dying leaves is just like the fact 434 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: that it's esthetically attractive is pretty exciting. And we definitely 435 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: live in a place with all four seasons, so try 436 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: to be outside as much as possible in October and 437 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: early November while those beautiful scenery are actually happening. Love it. 438 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I'm jealous of your leaves. I don't think this is 439 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: going to be the year for our leaf peeping trip. 440 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: It's a tough time school calendar wise, but eventually we'll 441 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: make it happen. We'll have to go up to Pennsylvania 442 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: or maybe even like I mean my college, the mountains 443 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: and different colors. Oh my god, it was like gorgeousing. Yeah, 444 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: well this year, yeah, there's not really good breaks in October. 445 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: It's like the month where you don't have it. We 446 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: get October fifth off for yam Kapor this year, but 447 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: it's just like smack in the middle of the week. 448 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: I think it's a Wednesday or something, so it's not 449 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: like you get to planned a long weekend around it. 450 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: And we do get a long weekend for Rashashana, but 451 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: it's in late September, so that's way too early. I mean, 452 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: you'd have to go to I don't know, Canada, Maine 453 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: very far north and Maine to get the leaves during 454 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: that trip, which you know, I guess we could but 455 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: probably won't. So I have to take that trip. We'll 456 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: just do a quick Saturday a Sunday sort of thing 457 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: in October you know who knows. But yeah, no, I'm 458 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: looking forward to fall. Bring out those boots the sweaters again. 459 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: I feel like I just packed them away. I guess 460 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: summer's gone. Really quick, but I didn't get around to 461 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: dry cleaning my sweaters until June or something like that. 462 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: So stay tuned for all the fall fun lists on 463 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: the blog. All right, So let's move on to the question, 464 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: and this is mostly for Sarah here, I think it's 465 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: for both of us lines, all right, So it was 466 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: originally submitted, but we have repurposed for this podcast. How 467 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: and where do you find time for all the little 468 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: administrative odds and ends that come with having kids? For instance, 469 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: planning birthday parties, ordering school pictures, submitting school health forms, 470 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: even ordering kids clothing? Is it during breaks from work? 471 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Is it in the evening? Is it on weekend? So Sarah, 472 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: when do you do these things? And do you have 473 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: a system? And I actually do have an answer to 474 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: this question, So I'm glad I knew you did. Thank you. 475 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: You have a lot of kids, You have a lot 476 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: of things to keep track of, like really, and a 477 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: lot of schools which I don't even have. So first 478 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: of all, before I answer your actual question, I just 479 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: will say, like, having a systematic way of capturing these 480 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: tasks so that when you do have times to do them, 481 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: you're not searching to try to remember what they are 482 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: is like half the battle for me. So when I 483 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: see one of these things pop up, I will capture 484 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: it somewhere, usually my planner on the like if it's 485 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: something that's fairly immediate on my weekly view, I will 486 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: put it on my weekly list, and I'll know that 487 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: I you know, now I have a place where I 488 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: will go when I do have free time to go 489 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: tackle some of these things. So I guess make sure 490 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: you are capturing them in a way that doesn't make 491 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: you like you are missing all of these loose ends 492 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: all the time. Then, in terms of like practically, what 493 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: are my actual real time windows for me, it tends 494 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: to be sometimes on my lunch break at work, if 495 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: I power through my morning patients, I can be done 496 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: with all my notes by twelve, and then my afternoon 497 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: patients don't start till like one one fifteen, So there's 498 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: usually some time in there because I'm a fast eater 499 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: and it doesn't take me a whole hour, so that 500 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: can be admin time. I might even have like a 501 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: no show and get some stuff done during that time. 502 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: Or if on a Friday, I'm done with all of 503 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: my work admin, I can you know, get a couple 504 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: of these quick little things done, especially again if I 505 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: have my list easily available after work, if my kids 506 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: have earned a little bit of screen time. Sometimes there's 507 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: some times so kids screen time is a time although 508 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: that that's gotten a little bit narrow work because we 509 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: kind of are on a very strict bedtime routine these days. 510 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: And then my big like get the whole list done, 511 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: would be on weekend afternoons. The kids are on their iPads. 512 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: They need like no intervention, they can entertain themselves, and 513 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: that's usually a few hours for me to take a nap, 514 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: read a book, and power through a lot of these 515 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: types of lists. I also feel like a lot of 516 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: these have rhythms with help, like don't reinvent the wheel. 517 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: Stick to the same types of brands for clothing. If 518 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: you get a birthday party, invite like order the gift immediately, 519 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: like make it something easy. If you always know you 520 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: order X y Z for a certain age group, it 521 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: takes like thirty seconds to just put in the order. 522 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: Always have gift wrap around and just replenish it when 523 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: it's getting low. And then you did mention help form. 524 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: So I'll say my one hack is that I always 525 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: keep versions of the old ones handy, so you can 526 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: if they're payper forms, you can just copy from one 527 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: year to another. So there's actually in my upcoming book, 528 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: Tranquility by Tuesday, one of the rules is batch the 529 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: little things. This is actually rule number eight. And many 530 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: of these tasks would fall squarely into the category of 531 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: little things. They do need to get done, but they 532 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: tend not to be urgent, and so I would encourage 533 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: you to designate a chunk of time during what is 534 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: not your peak time. Right, So, if you are the 535 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,239 Speaker 1: kind of person who is more energetic and focused in 536 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: the morning, you should choose a small window of time 537 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: in the afternoon when you will not be focusing on 538 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: deeper work or things like that, to plow through all 539 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: of these things at once. So I create what I 540 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: call a Friday punch list, and so I power through 541 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: all these things on Friday. Anything that can wait till 542 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: Friday that is on this list gets done in a 543 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: chunk of time on Friday, I go through it, try 544 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: to get as much done, and I don't know, like 545 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: an hour, and you can do a lot if you're 546 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: just sitting down knocking out one thing after another. It 547 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: can even feel kind of motiving. Because you keep crossing 548 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: stuff up. I mean, these are like these two minute 549 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: tasks you crossuff over and over. Now, of course, the 550 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: fact that they are two minute tasks raises the question 551 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: because some people then point out the long standing productivity 552 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: advice that if something only takes two minutes, you should 553 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: just do it when you think of it. And that's 554 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: why I heard Sarah mentioned like by that birthday present immediately, 555 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: and maybe that works for you. I would say that 556 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: you might want to think about whether you want to 557 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: do this right, because yes, if a task only takes 558 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: two minutes, theoretically it would take more time to pull 559 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: it back up a second time and get in the 560 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: brain space to do it than if you just did 561 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: it the first time. But it can be very easy 562 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: to interrupt ourselves with two minute tasks, and you can 563 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: wind up with like dozens of two minute tasks, and 564 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: then you feel like you're only doing two minute tasks, right, 565 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: Like your entire day is consumed with two minute tasks. 566 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: And sometimes it feels good because we're crossing stuff off 567 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: the list, right, Like if you order a birthday present, 568 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: it's ordered, it's done, like you did it, Yay, it 569 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: didn't require much thought, and it's done, and so you 570 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: feel this sense of accomplishment, whereas like sometimes wrestling with 571 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: deeper matters and harder work doesn't give you that same 572 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: sense of accomplishment, and so we can distract ourselves from 573 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: that deeper work to go get the easy win. So 574 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: I would just challenge you to think about whether you 575 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: really want to do that right, So, like, carve out 576 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: time for your deeper work, make a bucket of time, 577 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: time for all the little tasks. And then when you 578 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: find yourself, you know, trying to pull away from deeper work, 579 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: being like, oh, let me just go order that birthday present, 580 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: let me just go fill out that helpful I have 581 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: to do it right. You don't have to do it 582 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: then like say no, no, there's a time for that. 583 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: Now is not that time? And that can keep you 584 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: more focused and also make you keep you from feeling 585 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: like these tasks are taking over your life. I just 586 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: have to give a small counterpoint to the birthday thing, 587 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: which is that if I've already been interrupted by a 588 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: text with a birthday invite and I need to then 589 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: process that and put it on my calendar, I feel 590 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: like I've already lost my flow and that is an 591 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: argument for turning off your inputs, so you couldn't even 592 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: get an invite when you're doing something important. And if 593 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: you're not and you're checking your email and that invite comes, 594 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: then that's probably a time when it would be fine 595 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,959 Speaker 1: to order the gift immediately, like I batch it with 596 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: like Okay, I've gotten I've received this thing. I'm allowing 597 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: that to interrupt me. It's going on my calendar and 598 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: the gift is being ordered. Period. The event is over, 599 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: it's done, I'm ready. If that kind of makes sense, 600 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I totally get what you're saying, but I 601 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: think there is like an element of like controlling your 602 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: inputs there. That's very important. Yeah, once you've allowed for 603 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: the interruption, you could see it through completely. But in 604 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: many cases it would be better not to allow for 605 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: the interruption, if that is at all possible. One of 606 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: the things we've been talking about right with us sometimes 607 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 1: that we want to focus on the work we are 608 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: doing and not be interrupted by a million other things. 609 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: And that's part of not quiet quitting, but beautiful boundaries. Right. So, Sarah, 610 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: I quit love of the week. Hmm, Well, I can 611 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: just tell you that my love of the week. This 612 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: week is that I am booking some theater tickets and 613 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm super excited. I guess this is more of an 614 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: anticipation of the week, but I was in Little Shop 615 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: of Horrors in college, and I'm just super excited. They're 616 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: they're doing a performance of that at like our local theater, 617 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: and I just bought them and I'm super excited. Yay, Yeah, 618 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: sounds awesome. My love of the week, I'm gonna say 619 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: Nick plus Zoe. I don't know if people say Nick 620 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: and Zoe or Nick plus Zoe the brand. I've bought 621 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: a couple of light sweaters, slash, layering tanks, slash other 622 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: things from them, and I tend to like their cuts, 623 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: at least the solid color ones of them. They've got 624 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: some crazy looking T shirts and stuff that I'm not 625 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: as into, but they also have some fairly classic, like 626 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: boat neck navy lightweight sweater, which turns out you can 627 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: wear a lot, or a layering black tank that has 628 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: sort of a higher neckline and covers your shoulders, so 629 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: it's a tank, but it's not, you know, like a 630 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: little skimpy thing that you wouldn't actually wear out anywhere. 631 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 1: I'm having to replace this because we got a bit 632 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: of a moth infestation that I then had to deal 633 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: with and many of my old clothes got mothholes in them. 634 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: It's terrible. I hate it mostl the worst because they 635 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: go for the good stuff, right. They go for linen, wool, 636 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: natural fibers. They don't care about your polyester cheap shirt. 637 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: They're not into that. They're going for the real, the 638 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: steak dinner as it were, when they're they're eating. So 639 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: been catching a lot of moths and then replacing some 640 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: articles of clothing that I really liked and that I 641 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: cannot wear out in public anymore. But dislike of the 642 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: week would be moths like of the week, Nick and Zoe, 643 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: all right, this has been best of both worlds. We've 644 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: been talking quiet, quitting, fall fun, batching little tasks. I 645 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: don't we don't have a phrase for that. But we 646 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: will be back next week with more on making work 647 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find 648 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the 649 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find me 650 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the 651 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: best of both worlds. Podcasts. Please join us next time 652 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.