1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is n All. They 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. It's our listener male 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: episode we've got. We've got some doozies for you, fellow 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist, especially this week. We've got some some troubling 12 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: and some strange updates and feedback from our Microplastics episode. 13 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: That's one where we uh pretty comprehensively ruin the concept 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: of recycling, which was a conspiracy sold to everyone from 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: the plastics industry. And we're also diving into a very 16 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: very strange, a very very strange website that we were 17 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: hipped to by one of our fellow listeners. You know, Matt, 18 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: should we start there, starting with the very strange stuff 19 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: and then get into the very disturbing stuff, Yes, Ben, 20 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: And to do it we need to go to a 21 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: message that was sent to us by mental biopsy that 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: is a moniker. We will we will use for this 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: person who sent us this image says good evening. I've 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: been listening for a couple of years now and I 25 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: appreciate it more than you know. A few years ago, 26 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: a friend and I spent many hours deep in this website. 27 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: And we'll tell you the website in a moment. At 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: first glance, it appears as rubbish, but once you learn 29 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: how to navigate it, it goes into some deep places. 30 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes it feels like you shouldn't be looking at what 31 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: it's presenting you with. There isn't anything here that can 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: get you in trouble that we know, but initially it 33 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: appeared to be a dump for a hacker or something 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: along those lines. You can begin by going to the 35 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: address that will give you in a moment. Once you're there, 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: you will always be presented with some sort of picture 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: or a bunch of words. You can click on the 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: pictures to advance to another page. The links are usually 39 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: nothing that you typically get linked to, but they send 40 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: you to places. Some of the pages appear to be 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: just flashy colors or mixed up words. But a lot 42 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: of the time this is masking layers and layers of 43 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: stuff in one page. For example, you can sometimes click 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: on the mouse and hold the mouse button and drag 45 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: the mouse down the page and highlight stuff. You go 46 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: to your notepad paste it in. Now you've come up 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: with what the flashy stuff was hiding. Oh this sounds 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: so amazing, doesn't it. You can view the page as 49 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: a source code and see more hidden stuff in it too. 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: You can also use your phone and view it in 51 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: simple mode, which we removes the flashy images and it 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: will show even more stuff. This isn't limited to the 53 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: home screen. This is screen after screen after screen. We're 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: talking about pages and pages and pages of texts. We'll read. 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: We'll read a little bit more of what uh mental 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: biopsy sent us, but for now, let's give everyone a 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: warning and then the website. So first, the warning is 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: that the website we're gonna we're gonna tell you about 59 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: here has images that would be considered pornographic by some. 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: It should not be visited by young people, and it 61 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: should probably not be visited at work or even on 62 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: a work machine, just in case, unless you're asked, in 63 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: which case this is like totally par for the courts 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: machine time. Well, my machine is now filled with this 65 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: website and all its various Uh, I don't know what 66 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: should call them, tentacles, engines. You gotta give it to us. Okay, 67 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: So if you're if you're interested, head on over to 68 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: H T T P colon slash slash l h O 69 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: h Q dot info. Okay, are you there? Hopefully you're 70 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: not a child and you're not at work. Uh, let's 71 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: let's go together. Everybody here is now on the website 72 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: looking at it. I'm gonna tell you just about what 73 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: you know about my explorations. Okay. Um, to my mind, 74 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: this is a repository of someone's let's call them discoveries 75 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: and artful presentation of those discoveries. Some of it feels 76 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: a lot like a joke. There's a mock Department of 77 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: Homeland Security seal that maybe you guys have already seen, 78 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: which shockingly features a penis um. Yeah, but again, it's 79 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: just a piece of art. Someone photoshopped this thing and 80 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: it's just there's presented to you. But if you click 81 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: on it, continue right, I mean, and also you know 82 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: about ballpark of the human species shockingly features a Penis. 83 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: So that's true. It's true. I feel like I feel 84 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: like we have to be careful not to be too puritanical. 85 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: But you're right, this gets crazy very quickly. I don't 86 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: want to be puritanical. But again, like who knows who's 87 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: browsing it, So I gotta say that it reminds me 88 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: of like some of those weirdo kind of early flash 89 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: art websites, kind of like from the early aughts exactly 90 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, a lot of like what's 91 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: that stuff called asky art, you know, combined you know, 92 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: where it's the little symp symbols and things that are 93 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: in alphit America key kind of sets, but also like 94 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: kind of bad gifts but also like bad on purpose 95 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: where the edges are really you know, um, kind of 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: ragged and things like that. Like, but it's clearly a 97 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: lot of thought and intentions going into the placement of things. 98 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, Matt, I mean, what, what's what what's 99 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: going on here? There's something at the heart of these 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: weirdo artsy kind of presentations. Um, well, I I don't 101 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: know what's at the heart of it, but yeah, I'll 102 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: tell you a few other things that exist in the 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: website that you can find. Some of it's harder to 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: get to, and honestly, I couldn't tell you how I 105 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: navigated to some of the things that I got to UM. 106 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: But once you get there, it's like looking into, i 107 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: don't know, a black hole. Maybe you start to think 108 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: about yourself in the world a little differently, maybe not 109 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: that maybe not that deep, but it's interesting. So some 110 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: of the stuff you'll find feels like maybe a hyperlinked 111 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy wall of sorts, where on the page there will 112 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: be three or you know, maybe seven things you can 113 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: click on. But you really have to hunt within the 114 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: website to find the things that you can click on. 115 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: Almost like in the old flash pages where you could tab. 116 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: You could hit tab and it would highlight all the 117 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: things you could you could select. UM. It doesn't work 118 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: that way, but you just have to search, and once 119 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: you do it, you start jumping from lab for instance, 120 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: a right up on a specific near Earth object that 121 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: may impact Earth at a certain time. That then jumps 122 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: to a right up on the Fermi paradox and Gamma 123 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: ray bursts, and why perhaps we haven't seen any other 124 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: UM intelligent life in the universe yet, And it just 125 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: kind of goes down rabbit holes in that way. But 126 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: then it will take a massive left turn. Even if 127 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: you're just clicking on whatever images presented to you, it'll 128 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: just take a left turn, and now you're in military 129 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: intelligence or something. But once you've kind of gotten used 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: to the site itself and you know, in your attempts 131 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: to make sense of the fascinating layout, you'll find things 132 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: like I did, where you stumble upon a set of 133 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: instructions for coffee and it's all blown out. So if 134 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: you imagine a user manual, you'd have all your information 135 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: pretty densely in pages, you know, with a table of 136 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: contents or something. Imagine taking all that information then blowing 137 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: it out with giant spaces in between, with old icons 138 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: from Microsoft XP, but again just blown out. Just that 139 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: it's almost an endless scroll. Not quite endless, but it's 140 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: about massive, massive page and coffee. By the way, is 141 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: Computer Online Forensic Evidence Extractor. That's what it stands for. 142 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: It's software from Microsoft that does exactly what it says. 143 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: It's a tool to extract forensic evidence from a computer. 144 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: It's generally used by law enforcement, and it's the whole 145 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: user manual just there on a website, how to do it, 146 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: how to install it on a target computer, how to 147 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: generate reports on what that computer is doing and has 148 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: been doing, how to analyze all that stuff. It's fascinating. 149 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: You keep going. Oh, by the way, the background of 150 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: that particular page is a an infinite gift grid of 151 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Bill Gates being hit in the face with a pie, 152 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: as like a joke. So it's clearly it's clearly to 153 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: me someone curating some of this information and posting it, 154 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: rather than, as some people have said, possibly in artificial 155 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: intelligence program generating a website. I don't think that's a possibility. Um, 156 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: maybe there's I can see it as like, here's a 157 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: certain table of inputs, now whatever you know, AI thing 158 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: we've got running. Maybe it then just puts things together 159 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense, But not really I can 160 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: see that being a thing, but perhaps not, Uh Matt. 161 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm also like, are you getting different content when you 162 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: like refresh the page, because I'm getting four distinct article 163 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: headings with the same kind of gobbledygook headlines and then 164 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: some text, and then when you click the link to 165 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: those articles, I'm getting the same main four pages. And 166 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: and then what I've been doing is just doing select 167 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: all and copying, and then it just grabs all of 168 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: the text that's like sort of like a layer in 169 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: the background that's obscured through all these flashing colors and 170 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: gifts and whatnot. And then when you paste that into 171 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: like a notepad, it pass everything and even pays some 172 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: of the like hard coded like images, um. And it's 173 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: like it's immense some of them, like a couple of 174 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: one of them was was maybe like you know, a scroll, 175 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: and then this other one that I've got, the headline 176 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: is l h o h Q prepared statement of Admiral 177 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: Stanfield Turner, Director of Central Intelligence, is like it looks 178 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: like pay pasting a source code from a very large website. 179 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a lot of text, um, it's And 180 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: then then you even have a section that's like about 181 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: advertising products. If you go to products, there's all these 182 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: video links that are basically just kind of like vaguely 183 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: political art films. There's this one called The First Time 184 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: Space Girl on the Farm and it's nine minutes and 185 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: it starts with a close up of like a donkey's 186 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: butt hole basically with like the tail kind of switching 187 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: back and forth that it gradually pulls out until you 188 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: see this farm, and then there's lambs, and then there's 189 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: like these kind of looks to be like migrant workers 190 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: and like a barn, and this idyllic kind of almost 191 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: ambient atmospheric music. I haven't watched the whole thing yet, 192 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: but this looks like somebody's crazy art project from college 193 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,239 Speaker 1: or like, but with way more actual hidden depth of information. 194 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: Is really cool. Fine man. Yeah, anytime you begin a 195 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: shot with a close up of a donkey's anus and 196 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: then you pull out, I mean that's art, I think. Well, 197 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: but that's why I said it was vaguely political, because 198 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: it's like, does the donkey represent the you know, the Democrats? 199 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where 200 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: it's going with its politics. I would say it leans 201 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: more towards yeah, I don't know, anarchism or you know, 202 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: f F the system kind of vibe of the Church 203 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: of the SubGenius. I have. I have a lot of 204 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts on this this um 205 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: uh mental biopsy. Thank you so much for sending this. 206 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to put my 207 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: my thoughts on this. This uh, this was vaguely familiar 208 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: to me from other weird rabbit holes, because I I 209 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: see a couple of possibilities here. First, I'd like to recommend, 210 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: if you haven't watched it yet, there is a YouTube 211 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: channel called blame it On Jorge. You guys have seen 212 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: that has a pretty comprehensive video on this website. One 213 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: of the So if we're being conspiratorial and we're just 214 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: taking at face value, Nol as you said and Matt, 215 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: as you indicated, I think in your previous statements, uh, 216 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: clicking on the same what appears to be the same 217 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: link will take you two different distinct pages. Additionally, I 218 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: would recommend again if you're not if you're not a minor, 219 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: and you're not on a work computer with I T 220 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: that checks your Internet usage, I would recommend viewing page 221 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: source that will be pretty instructive. You'll see a lot 222 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: of stuff in the meta that doesn't necessarily show on 223 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: the screen for a page UM Blame it on. Jorge's 224 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: ultimate conclusion is that this is an example of what's 225 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: called modern data is UM because l h o h 226 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: q is very similar to l h o o q. 227 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: It's even quoted somewhere on the website. That's an acronym 228 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: created by a guy named Marcel Duchamp who's conceptual artists. 229 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: It's like either he's very closely associated with data is 230 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: um he's the toilet guy or Mutt like the art 231 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: piece that's just a toilet signed our Mutt, that was 232 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: one of his most famous pieces, I believe, and there 233 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: are there's there's this deluge of information, right, this this 234 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: hay Stack effect, everything from what you said, Matt, to 235 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: some some science and speculation to philosophy to really ostensibly 236 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: disturbing stuff about say fascism and Walt Disney or for instance, 237 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: uh you know, child abuse and what what a lot 238 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: of people have argued in the past is that this 239 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: is an a r G some sort of augmented reality game. 240 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: That's something that people asked us about Cicada, right, what 241 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: was it, thirty three oh one? Do you guys remember that? Yes, 242 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's possible. I I like some of 243 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: those ideas been and I honestly, I haven't done a 244 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: ton of research into what other uh you know, other 245 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: folks have been saying about it. I've I've really just 246 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: let myself kind of experience a go down the rabbit 247 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: hole with it. Um I could see it being a 248 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: lot of those things, But the website always seems to 249 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: to show you something that doesn't fit any any of 250 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: the scenarios that have been put forth, because for me, 251 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: there's an agenda to it, and maybe the things that 252 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm about to say are throwing people off the scent 253 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: of what it really is, or it's just an extra 254 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: thing that exists there, or maybe somebody else applied it within, 255 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, the website by some surreptitious means. But I 256 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: let me just tell you a couple of other things 257 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: that I found. One page is an entire operating manual 258 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: for the Richmond Police Department's Mobile Command Center, and it 259 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: is that's information that a police department in Richmond, I'm 260 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: assuming Richmond, Virginia, um like, uses to operate within the 261 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: field essentially in their city when they when they need 262 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: to have you know, when they need to have an HQ, 263 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: essentially when there's something big occurring, and it could be 264 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: dangerous having that information out there. I mean, maybe that's 265 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: something that exists in other places where you could just 266 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: download if you live in Richmond, or if you you know, 267 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: live in Virginia or maybe if you just exist and 268 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: have an Internet connection. But it feels very strange to 269 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: see it all written out there on this weird website. UM, 270 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that. That kind of thing gives me pause, 271 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: like why would that be there? Um? And the other 272 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: the other last thing that I'll say about it is 273 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: that on one page and I'll well, I'm not I'm 274 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: not gonna say what the actual I'm gonna make people 275 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: find out. I'm not gonna say what the actual you 276 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: r L is. It's within the website somewhere and if 277 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: you stumble upon it, you stumble upon it. But it 278 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: looks to be instant checkmate pages of this is. This 279 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: is a piece of software that you can use. It 280 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: is used by my team quite frequently when we are 281 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: looking for interview subjects and trying to track people down 282 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: to talk to about let's say, a true crime story 283 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: or something and you need to get somebody's email or 284 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: their phone number or nowhere they are located. Excuse by 285 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: journalists mostly investigative uh like investigative journalists and private investigators 286 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: and law enforcement. This kind of thing that those are 287 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: the people that use this. UM. There are several images 288 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: of results from instant checkmate of very powerful people. So 289 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: this is a paid for service that you have to 290 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: you know, you have to pay to actually use it 291 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: and search for people, and you have to pay extra 292 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: to get certain levels of information. Whoever created these images 293 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: has been paying for it and got a lot of 294 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: people like Stephen Feinberg, Daniel Kowalski or Dan Kowalski, David Malpas, 295 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: and even Peter Navarro, even the sitting president. It has 296 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: it has personal contact information like all that you could 297 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: ever want on these people. I have not independently verified 298 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: whether any of this information is correct or up to 299 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: date or accurate in any way, but some of it 300 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: appears to be. Some of the addresses are are accurate 301 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: for sure. So it it is a really freaky thing 302 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: to just see all of that. It feels like something 303 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be looking at. And I'm kind of scared 304 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: that it's on my computer. Now maybe you would be too, 305 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't know how you feel 306 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: about it, or that it might look back at you 307 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: right like, is there some kind of ping? This may 308 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: seem the paranoid, but is there's some kind of ping 309 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: scent that in roles or enlist some sort of search 310 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: set on your own information. I just hit you guys 311 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: in our chat um. This is something I found about 312 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: gosh last night yesterday. Sometimes the someone posted a map 313 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: visual site map that gives you a little bit of 314 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: insight into the labyrn here. And it is a labyrinth 315 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: of sources. So what you'll see when you pull it 316 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: up is something that each each endpoint of the domain, 317 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: meaning each thing you can click toward from the home page, 318 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: is represented by a dot of a different color. Uh. 319 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: And being partially color blind, I know some of it, 320 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: but I don't know what it means. Uh. And if 321 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: we describe it, it looks like, uh, there is a 322 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: massive sort of circle or almost a torus around one link, 323 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: and then there are some other things that linked things 324 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: like you'll see how linking on something about a guy 325 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: named Bill Howard Tannin will lead to something about android scientologists, 326 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: which will lead to something about governor android governs, androids 327 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: and these this uh, this map which you can find 328 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, visual site mapper. Uh. This this map just 329 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: shows us they have stuff about transcranial magnetic simulation, one 330 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: of my old hobby horses. This stuff shows you how 331 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: they're linked in the in the titles of these end points. 332 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: But uh, content wise, you'll see again to the point 333 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: I think you guys earlier made. Content wise, you'll see 334 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: that what's on the page or what's in the page 335 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: source doesn't always match what the page is called. And 336 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: also like some of the stuff does appear to be 337 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, copy pasta kind of I guess from the 338 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: official documents like that there are clearly reports and internal 339 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, things like like that that manual for the 340 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, police equiped man. But some of it is 341 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: also just complete non sequitar weirdness. Like there's one I 342 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: just found from the site map that I couldn't even 343 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: find through the actual front page. That the heading is 344 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: devil worshiping pedophiles. Then the text is erections from because 345 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: from because Microsoft about for pornographic with from four two 346 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: because one Microsoft from newspapers, one Wall Street Journal with 347 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: homosexual and another Washington d C on the one with 348 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: sounds like an automation sort of text generation. That kind 349 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: of word salad seems common. But I I think you 350 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: know what I would love to hear, guys, I would 351 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: love to hear from listeners who have gone with you 352 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: Matt on this endeavor. I'd love to hear what's like 353 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: the specific favorite link they found. I think that would 354 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: be worthwhile. And then what what it means. I don't 355 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: think it's a cult. I don't. It feels very very 356 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: Church of the SubGenius to me. Yeahs for Marshall mclewin. 357 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: The medium is the massage. If you've ever read that 358 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: book or that kind of commentary on how we encounter information, 359 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: so let us know. And if you can tell by 360 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: my face, there is some flashing stuff happening on the website. 361 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: And with that we're going to head to a commercial. 362 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: But thanks again for sending us down this rabbit hole. 363 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: We looked forward to hearing your thoughts, and we've returned. 364 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: We have not returned alone. We are accompanied now in 365 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 1: spirit and in motivation by several scientists who wish, for 366 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: various very valid reasons to remain anonymous. So our piece 367 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: of listener mail, we just picked one from these, is 368 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: one that I personally found haunting. I forwarded it to 369 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: the group for visibility, just like as soon as we 370 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: got it. In our episode on plastics and the Great 371 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: Hoax of Recycling Plastics, we asked for subject matter experts 372 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: to chime in and to answer some questions about how 373 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: this current situation will unfold, what plastic alternatives might actually 374 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: look like, how they would work, and so on. And 375 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: one of the questions we asked is, uh, how far 376 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: away are we from a world in which human beings 377 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: specifically are already born riddled with plastics, since it's in 378 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: so many parts of the natural world now even if 379 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: you last pieces of wilderness left have plastic arriving there 380 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: before humans arrived there. So this particular scientist, who like 381 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: the rest of those who wrote in wants to remain anonymous, 382 00:23:53,960 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: has first asked us to paraphrase there letter. Because you 383 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: to the specifics of their work, they can't disclose very 384 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: much personal information, so they say, hello, stuff they want 385 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: you to know. Thanks for bringing us this episode in particular, 386 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: longtime listener, but first responder, I don't normally email podcast 387 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: i'm listening to, but I noticed you and did this 388 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: particular episode asking for any polymer scientists to comment, and 389 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: I could not help myself. I am a polymer scientist 390 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: working on interactions between polymers and biomolecules, and this person's 391 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: department their colleagues have started investigating methods into the detection 392 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: of nanoplastics, which are smaller than microplastics. Obviously, Uh, they said, 393 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: We've recently published new work on detecting nanoplastic particles in 394 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: this range, but I can't be more specific about it 395 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: because it could be traced to me or to my department. 396 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: This is a line stuck with me as Uh. This 397 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: anonymous scientist says, regarding the episode in general, I have 398 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: good news and bad news. The good news is that 399 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: I was very impressed with the episode. Well, I didn't 400 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: necessarily learn anything new. You managed to really dilute the 401 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: essence down to less than an hour without using difficult 402 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: jargon or terms. I wish many of my colleagues had 403 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: that same skill. It's gonna pause for a second. This 404 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: is us, not this anonymous scientists. Thank you and thank 405 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: you anonymous, because that makes our day whenever we have 406 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: a subject matter expert come in and say that we 407 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: didn't completely with on these very complex concepts. Uh. So 408 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: they continue with the bad news because obviously they're buttering 409 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: us up. Right. The bad news, says this scientist, is 410 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: that you really hit the nail on the head, and 411 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: we all probably should feel an imposing sense of dread. 412 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: It is pretty much as dire a picture as you painted. 413 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: As recent as last year it was shown that there 414 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: are detectible levels of micro plastics and Arctic ice and snow, 415 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: and you can safely assume that by now plastic molecules 416 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: are everywhere, no exception. And then they said, you've asked 417 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: a few questions. I'll try to answer. First question we asked, 418 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: how will this unfold? Your subject matter expert, you know 419 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: plastics are a problem. What comes next? This scientist says, 420 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,959 Speaker 1: I think it is most realistic that we will do 421 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing about this for at least decades, as biodegradable 422 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: but durable plastics slowly gain popularity but never surpass petrochemical plastics. 423 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: For now, the official stances plastics may be found everywhere 424 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: but are harmless due to their inert nature. This is 425 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: almost certainly not true. It is almost certain that plastic 426 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: particles that have been found in individual human cells will 427 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: have adverse effects on health. They're probably not clear now 428 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: but already existing, but will slowly become more evident in 429 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: the coming decades. Scientists says, I have no idea how 430 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: this will manifest exactly, but I suspect either an increase 431 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: in cancer, always a safe bet with biology, as well 432 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: as more generalized poor health symptoms, as polymer biomaterial interaction 433 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: is likely rather weak and lends itself to minor disturbances 434 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: rather than very big, obvious disruptions of specific organs and tissues. 435 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: What happens after that is anyone's guests, this is, in 436 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: my opinion, far more a political, capitalist issue than it 437 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: is a scientific one goes on to compare it to 438 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: global warming. And let's let's pause here for a second 439 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: and unpack this. What what do you all think? From 440 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing? The good news bad news is that 441 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: we were right and if there's anything that we did 442 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: wrong in this episode, we were perhaps a little too optimistic. 443 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: This is this is clearly a scientist indicating a spiking 444 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: cancer in the mid and uh, something that will be 445 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: hard to attribute to nanoplastics in the beginning, right, because uh, 446 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: that shout out to a specific organ. Right, we can 447 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: find some chemicals and contaminants that affect maybe the brain, right, 448 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: were the nervous system or the liver or the kidney, 449 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: But this sounds like it's a general system attack. Um, Matt, 450 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: I know you were adventuring on this episode when Noel 451 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: and I were doing this. But this is a problem 452 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: that we've talked about at length in the past. Do 453 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: you all think this person is being to dire or 454 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: do you think there are being alarmists or I mean, 455 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: what's your initial reaction to that they're saying plastic will 456 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: essentially cause cancer in massive amounts in like years. Yeah, 457 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: so I'm certainly not up to snuff on the research 458 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: as I was gone when you guys did this, like 459 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: you said, Ben, but I'm over the years, we've been 460 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: hipped to similar things. That's why we made that. That's 461 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: why you guys made that episode in the first place. Um, 462 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: it does feel like an inevitability. Plastic, like macro plastics, 463 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: let's call them, are invading you know, oceans and land 464 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: and uh flora and fauna all over the entire planet 465 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: right now. We talked about other chemicals that you know, 466 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: humans have found to be very useful for first on 467 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: almost always military purposes, and then for some other purpose. 468 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of teflon things like that. Um, the plastics 469 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: feels like the same kind of problem. This is my 470 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: question to you guys, and I guess not not to 471 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: our scientist friend as they have these answers. I'm sure 472 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: and it would be old hat. But nanoplastics, how are 473 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: they generated? And I apologize for not knowing that and 474 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: not let's at the episode, but are they generated through 475 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: the process of recycling and other breaking down of plastic 476 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: or is it in the manufacturing or in some other way. 477 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: So nanoplastics can be manufactured, well, not manufactured, they can 478 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: be created accidentally in the wild through the break by 479 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: products breakdown plastics. Okay, okay, cool. So so we're talking 480 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: about all the plastic that we know is everywhere on 481 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: the planet, and it's just breaking down, getting this stuff 482 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: into water sources, then finding its way you know, I'm 483 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: assuming into the air and then going down to other 484 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: places and then we're all just consuming it. Yeah, I mean, 485 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: there was a there was a moment in the episode 486 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: wh we we I forget the exact figure, but um, 487 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: it's it would be very common for you to go 488 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: outside and be breathing in these particles pretty regularly. To 489 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: some degree, there would be some part of the air 490 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: oxygen you are consuming that has residue of these particles 491 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: or some amount of these problems. Certainly not an amount 492 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: that would like affect you quickly, it would be a 493 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: slow process, like feeding a rat sacharan, you know, and 494 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: giving it cancer over a period of time or rat rather. 495 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: I guess they fed the rats lots of saccarin to 496 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: give them cancer quickly. But saccarin maybe only gives us 497 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: cancer over the course of eating sweet and low for 498 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: like an entire lifetime. Theoretically. Um, it's really fascinating. I've 499 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: got a question for you, Matt. Um. We did an 500 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: episode just this last recording where we did the Strange 501 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: News episode where you talked about this kitaness building material 502 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: that would be used in space. Uh, it sounds like 503 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: a really versatile material. How is that not being discussed 504 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: as a replacement for plastics since it's obviously biodegradable, since 505 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: it's made of mainly organic material, and seems like it's 506 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: got a lot of potential. But certainly had never heard 507 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: of that outside of this Wired article that seemed very 508 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: pimous sky about how this is the future of manufacturing 509 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: on space, but the discussion of it being something we 510 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: would use here on Earth was barely a footnote. Yeah, 511 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: I think we should consult the writing of our scientists 512 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: here for answers to that question, because titan would not 513 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: function the way plastics can. And there's a reason, there's 514 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: a very good reason why we use plastics. Uh. And 515 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: again our scientists has has some of that info. Yeah. Yeah, 516 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: plastics are just incredibly durable. Uh. And they're incredibly malleable 517 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: both as a material but also malleable as an application, 518 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: given that certain plastics will have great a greater level 519 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: of heat resistance and so on, or ductility as well. 520 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: But I think one of the bigger issues here is 521 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: what's called path dependence. We are path dependent as a 522 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: species on petrol. We have an emphatic structure that is 523 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: designed to rely on petrochemical plastics, so we would have 524 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: to It's it's not necessarily a matter of just inventing 525 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: a viable plastic alternative. It's a matter of inventing a 526 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: viable plastic alternative infrastructure to go around to go along 527 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: with it. Like what use is building a hydrogen powered 528 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: car if you don't have hydrogen gas stations for lack 529 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: of a better phrase. Uh, That's that's the problem that 530 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: that we're at. And we know that we know that 531 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: any slowly degradable bioplastic is still streets ahead of a 532 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: non biodegradable petroplastic. I don't know about you, guys, but 533 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to get fast food and look at 534 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: a plastic fork and realize it will be around thousands 535 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: of years after I'm gone. I can't deal with that 536 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: existential crisis. You know what I mean? Um, It makes 537 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: you think about the ephemeral nature of humanity. This letter 538 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: goes on again. We were asked not to read it verbatim. 539 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,239 Speaker 1: I want to hit one last thing. What you are 540 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: anonymous friend called a throwaway question, how far are we 541 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: away from children being born with plastic in them? In 542 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: inn and deal with plastic our scientists and other scientists 543 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: wrote in says I guarantee this is already happening, and 544 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: then gives us two sources that they you know, that 545 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: are solid sources. They say they're pop science sources, but 546 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: they're accurate. So the plastic is in you now. And 547 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: if you have children, there's probably plastic in them because 548 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,479 Speaker 1: they are born inside a human who already probably has 549 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: some form of plastic in them. And to your point, 550 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: know what what a to answer your question about nanoplastic directly, Matt, 551 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: It's a byproduct, like Nell said, it's not um so 552 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: much purposely made in a lab for practical application. Most 553 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 1: and just what we're talking about when we talk about 554 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: nanoplastic are little bits produced by the degradation of which 555 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: you get macro to micro to nanoplastics. And that's when 556 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: it gets light enough to go in the air, you 557 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: breathe it in. What a wonderful day. Thirty five years 558 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: later some reason you have cancer. That's the dystopian view. 559 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: But my son develops cancer thirty years down the road 560 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: because of this. This is that's a horrifying thought. It 561 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: all points to the short sightedness of technology and manufacturing, 562 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: right like, only now are we kind of discussing that 563 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: maybe cell phones possibly maybe give you cancer or contribute 564 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: to it. But it's not like we're slowing now and 565 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: that like like you would say, Ben, that badger is 566 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: already out of the bag. And same with plastics. I mean, 567 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: even in the episode we talked about how it was 568 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: pretty clear very quickly that this is going to be 569 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: a problem, but the convenience and the money to be 570 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: made outweighed worrying about the ultimate outcome for the future. 571 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: And that's just a trend. We see especially in the 572 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: United States, you know, in terms of just like putting 573 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: the moment ahead of like the big picture and how 574 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: things will affect you know, everyone down the line, not 575 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: just you know, those in a position to profit um. 576 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: And it's it's sad, and and it's I think this 577 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: is a really great example because even this isn't a 578 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: conversation we're hearing in the halls of Congress, isn't a 579 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: conversation we're hearing in presidential debates how do we deal 580 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: with the plastic problem? But it's a problem, There's no 581 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: question about it. Yeah, I still have a bias going 582 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: into this because I believe the petrochemical industry has been 583 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: aware of this, just like they were aware of climate 584 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: change for a very long time, uh, and have perhaps 585 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: even orchestrated which I know is dangerous work, but perhaps 586 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: even orchestrated path dependency upon plastic as an insurance policy, 587 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: a new potential income stream, a revenue street name for 588 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: the post fossil fuel era, right Like, Like it's kind 589 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: of like how M R. J. Reynolds got big into vapes, 590 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, because cigarettes are on the way out, so 591 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: maybe we can find another way to sell our based product, 592 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: which is tobacco. So can we find another way to 593 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: sell our based product oil and fossil fuel? Yeah, plastic 594 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: bags of fork that will be here like the like 595 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: the statue of Ozamandeus long after we're gone. A fork 596 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: you didn't even ask for in the bag of fast food, 597 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like, I save that stuff 598 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: because it feels like the right thing to do or 599 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: some way of And I I washed, I rewashed my 600 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: tupperware that comes in like to go food. I I 601 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: keep that stuff and I rewash it and try my 602 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: best to use it until it sort of is full 603 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 1: of holes and useless. Well it degrades directly into your mouth. 604 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: You're probably right, Matt. I'm probably a freaking idiot. But 605 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: I just don't know. It's a still microwave it. No, 606 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: I certainly don't like all those plastic scientists are out 607 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,959 Speaker 1: there right now say no, no, do not do that. 608 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:18,479 Speaker 1: Stop stop right uh. And I I would say thank 609 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: you to the scientists because you have been shouting uh 610 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: politely at me for years. Whatever this comes up, even 611 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: back in the YouTube days. And uh, I greatly appreciate this. 612 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: In the letter, you know, again, we've been asked not 613 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: to read it in full, but in the letter UH, 614 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: you anonymous scientists make a fantastic point where you say, 615 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of research scientists are underpaid. They 616 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: have the same problems that so many people have today 617 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: skyrocketing cost of living or or rent, you know, uh, 618 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: insecurity about continual employment. Speaking out can have repercussions. It 619 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: sounds like a conspiracy theory, but the apparatus of academia 620 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: can and will, you know, exert influence on divergent opinions 621 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: or unpleasant truths. So keep fighting the good fight right 622 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: to us. Let us know. I've got I've got a 623 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: couple of contacts for people who have had personal experience 624 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: trying to go completely plastic free, and I'm gonna I'm 625 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: gonna hopping onto uh to talk with them at length. 626 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: And Matt No, I'd love to either get you guys 627 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: on there with me or to update you afterwards, because 628 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: it's just if you try going just a month without 629 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: getting new plastic, forget not ever using plastic. That's really 630 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: tough now, but if you can, if you tried going 631 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: a month just not getting any plastic from the grocery store, 632 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: from a restaurant, from you know, uh, the auto mechanic whatever. 633 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: Then it's very it's a very daunting thing, and it's 634 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: a great illustration of just how far, how far down 635 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: this road we as a civilization have gone. But but 636 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: hopefully this episode isn't all gloom and doom. We've been doing. Uh, 637 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: we've been doing something that you know, I don't know 638 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: about you guys, but I quite like where we try 639 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: to find something that's maybe a little bit lighter to 640 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: end the show. So it's not all we're gonna die 641 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: riddled with plastic docs by some strange, mad possibly artificial 642 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: intelligence created website. Uh, So we're gonna so we're gonna 643 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: talk about the first presidential debate of he and we'll 644 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: do that. We'll do that during a break so you 645 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: don't have to hear uh freeboard dudes hot takes. Uh. 646 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: After that break, we'll be back with another strange, hopefully 647 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: not as terrifying story about plastics. And we're back, and 648 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: as promised that you do have another plastic story coming 649 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: from a listener named Steve, but also as promised, it 650 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 1: is a little bit more of a kind of a 651 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: lighthearted silver lining esque story. Maybe not. We'll let you 652 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: be the judge, So Steve wrote us and comments and 653 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: on how in the plastics episode, um, we also tried 654 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: to end that one on a on a somewhat positive note, 655 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: talking about how the Lego Corporation, the giant Danish company 656 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: that makes those colored bricks that you're always stepping on 657 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: with your bare feet. Um, nasty little things, but you know, 658 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: when you put them together, you make all kinds of 659 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: cool stuff of adults and children alike love them. A 660 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: lot of adults really love Legos, nerd out and make 661 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: like Ghostbusters, you know, Headquarters and like the Death Star, 662 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: things that kids would never in a million years able 663 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: to afford or likely have the attention span to do. 664 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: You got to You got two other guys in this 665 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: meeting that are big fans. I love Legos now, I 666 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: love Legos and you don't know stepping on them. I 667 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: really do love Legos. There are a lot of fun 668 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,320 Speaker 1: They're a good way to each spatial recognition for kids 669 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: and the idea of manufacturing I'm sorry, of of engineering 670 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: and an appreciation for you know, architecture and structural stuff 671 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: and all of that. It's great. It's a really cool 672 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: company and a really interesting legacy to that. The company 673 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: that makes them. Um, but they have decided to pivot. 674 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: As you know, when you buy a Lego kid, it 675 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: comes in a giant plastic bag or a series of 676 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: plastic bags, depending on which pieces there they might be organized, 677 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, and like pieces that would be in an 678 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: individual bags. And because the Lego Corporation received a bunch 679 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: of letters from children, um, who were concerned about climate 680 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: change and about the effects of of of of plastics 681 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,439 Speaker 1: on the environment. UM, they decided, Okay, we're gonna listen 682 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: to it to these children, and we're gonna pivot, and 683 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna start using paper bags as opposed to plastic. 684 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: But of course the legos themselves still mad at a 685 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: plastic and UM we mentioned on the show. Steve was 686 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: commenting on that, well, you know, at least they don't 687 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: end up in the ocean, you know, as kids presumably 688 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: keep their legos around and and you know, display them 689 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: on their mantles, and then maybe they get broken down 690 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: and put in bags and passed down to you know, 691 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: siblings or whatnot. Because legos are expensive. Um he said, ironically, Uh, 692 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: just that very thing happened one particular time in uh 693 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: in the nineties. Um. A a container ship uh something 694 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 1: link to this article for the BBC talking about how 695 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: a container ship filled with millions of Lego pieces was 696 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: capsized off of Cornwall in the United Kingdom. It was 697 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: hit by this massive wave and it dumped uh hundreds 698 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: of thousands, I think over a million Lego pieces into 699 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 1: the ocean and and consequently, uh, these pieces have been 700 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: washing up on the beaches of Cornwall ever since. Yeah, 701 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,879 Speaker 1: it was four point eight million pieces estimated in an 702 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: in a containership or interestingly enough, a lot of them 703 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: were under the sea themed. So it's become kind of 704 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: a little like you know, apparently back in the nineties, 705 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: there'd be kids that would set up on the beaches 706 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: or on the boardwalks, uh, selling these things that they 707 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: had collected, like shells, you know, from but it's literally 708 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: these little plastic pieces and and there'd be little games 709 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: you'd play with your neighbors or people in the village. 710 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 1: Cordinall is a very small it's a village more or less. Um, 711 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: it's a very small place. One of my favorite electronic artists, 712 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: Richard James a k f X twin, grew up in 713 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: Cornwall and he talks about it a lot as as 714 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: just being this very very sleepy, little tiny kind of 715 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 1: seaside town um. But yeah, there was access to the 716 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: manifest from the shipping container and the breakdown of all 717 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: the different pieces that were on it. And I think 718 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: one of the figures was three hundred and fifty three thousand, 719 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty four plastic daisies uh fell into 720 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: the sea. And this was on thirteenth of February UM 721 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: And the container a ship was the Tokyo Express and 722 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: there were sixty two containers overall lost overboard. Right, it's 723 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: not just the one, of course, that's because yeah, well 724 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: let's think of the way these ships work. These are stacked. 725 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,720 Speaker 1: But the stuff, but the one that made the news 726 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: because it's continued to have an impact over over years, 727 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: was the lego one. Because they just keep kind of 728 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: washing up on on on the shore and it's become 729 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: like a thing that the residents start to have become 730 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: familiar with, and it's the story isn't like a negative story. 731 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: The people that they interviewed from the village were more like, oh, 732 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: this is like it's like a treasure hind like, oh, 733 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: you found an octopus, Well, I found a green dragon 734 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: or a little tiny sword and a pirate sword or whatever. 735 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, but but there is a very negative 736 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: side to this story, right. We're talking about plastics and pollution, 737 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: especially in the ocean, and we're talking about millions of 738 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: legos that fell to the ocean floor from that container. 739 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: He was somehow released, and I guess just over time 740 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: these things started coming up, and that's plastics that animals 741 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,240 Speaker 1: are going to be eating. Probably some of them are 742 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,279 Speaker 1: a lot of them are small enough to be eaten. Yeah, 743 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: and then consider that again. The reason I wanted to 744 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: emphasize the multiple container aspect here is because these containers 745 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: are going to be degrading, probably varying rates. So legos. 746 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,720 Speaker 1: We know that the container holding the legos was breached, 747 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: but there may be other stuff coming and stuff that 748 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: doesn't contain things as small and light as legos, so 749 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: that it's not as easily transported to the shore. But 750 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: I do want to add some hope here. One thing 751 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: that is inspiring about this is the community's reactions, as 752 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: I think you're getting at their There's a Facebook page 753 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,439 Speaker 1: called Lego Loss at Sea, organized by a resident called 754 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: Tracy Williams, and this is entirely a community of people 755 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: who have gamified collecting these legos, so they've gamified cleaning 756 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,120 Speaker 1: up at least the shore a line. Uh, and you 757 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: know you want to collect your daisies. What else we got? 758 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: We got the flippers, the pirate swords, the harpoons. As 759 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: you said, well, it's uh, it's oddly enough pretty nautical themed. 760 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: It's a pretty wide swath of stuff. So there's a 761 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 1: great breakdown um on this BBC article uh that goes 762 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: into even the specific numbers. There's spear guns presumably belonging 763 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: to a tiny lego, and deep sea diver thirteen thousand 764 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,720 Speaker 1: of those. Uh. The black octopus one of the rarest 765 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: items in this hall, because there were only forty two 766 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: hundred of them. So, like we were saying, this has 767 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 1: definitely become like this gamified thing where people will find 768 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: these It's almost like finding a rare Pokemon or something 769 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,840 Speaker 1: like that. UM. Yellow life preservers. We've got twenty six thousand, 770 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: six hundred of those, uh, little tiny flippers in pairs black, 771 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,919 Speaker 1: blue and red. Four hundred and eighteen thousand of those UM. 772 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: The green and the black dragons also among the rarer items. 773 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: Thirty three thousand, nine hundred forty one uh A brown 774 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,919 Speaker 1: ship rigging net twenty six thousand, four hundred of those 775 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned the nearly half a million daisies in in 776 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: pairs of four white, red and yellow um scuba devices 777 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: scuba breathing apparatus is about a hundred thousand of those. UH. 778 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: And that's it total of four million, seven hundred and 779 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: fifty six thousand, nine hundred and forty lego pieces that 780 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 1: were in this single container. And the estimate is that 781 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: three million, one seventy hundred and seven might have been 782 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 1: light enough to have floated. And let's also mentioned to 783 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: the great voyage that these little guys have made. We're 784 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 1: talking about sixty two thousand miles uh, that some of 785 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: these pieces might have drifted UM and this article in 786 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: BBC mentions that it's twenty four thousand miles around the equator, 787 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: meaning that they could potentially end up on any beach 788 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,759 Speaker 1: on Earth because they're all in early. This reminds me 789 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: of the fantastic story of the rubber ducks, which are 790 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: sometimes called the friendly Floaties. Heard of this, uh, perhaps 791 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: I know you've heard of Matt guy named Curtis Ebbesmeyer 792 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: as an ocean oographer who studies ocean currents based on 793 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,880 Speaker 1: the directions, uh that that flots some floating c debris 794 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 1: takes and he was he was able to use rubber ducks. Now, 795 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,360 Speaker 1: before you think I'm painting this wonderful guy as a 796 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: villain and want you know he didn't throw all these 797 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: ducks in the ocean. On January tenth, twelve forty ft 798 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: intermodal containers. Those are those shipping containers we're talking about. 799 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,319 Speaker 1: That's that's what you see on train sometimes if you 800 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: live in your train tracks or a semi trailer. Twelve 801 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: of these fort containers were washed of or board. One 802 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: of them held almost twenty nine thousand children's bath toys. 803 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,400 Speaker 1: So yellow ducks, blue turtles, green frogs, red beavers, and 804 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 1: these things float because if you're a rubber duck, to you, 805 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,160 Speaker 1: the ocean is just a really big bathtub. And these 806 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,879 Speaker 1: things as they've floated around, you know, they're small. It's 807 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 1: tough for people to catch all of them, even if 808 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: you were worried about fighting pollution, or even if those 809 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,720 Speaker 1: um those shipping interests were legally liable for the environmental damage. 810 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: So instead what we had was kind of these maritime 811 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: tracer bullets that allowed us to see the paths this 812 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,840 Speaker 1: flotsam was taking, and it told us a lot about 813 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: the function and the interaction of Earth's ocean currents. So 814 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: there's something there's something to be said there, you know, 815 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of good we can take with 816 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: the bad. And the legos are gonna I think are 817 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: very similar in perhaps more um well, not even a 818 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 1: micro cosmic wave, because as you said, they could end 819 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,439 Speaker 1: up at any beach on the planet. I always thought 820 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,080 Speaker 1: the message in the bottle thing was largely an artifice 821 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: or trope used in fiction. But if you throw a 822 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,799 Speaker 1: bottle in the right place in the ocean, even from 823 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,359 Speaker 1: the shore, then who knows where it'll end up? Right, 824 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 1: Just to end it on the shipping containers thing, ben there, 825 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: I just wanted to hit you with a stat on 826 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: at least from of global annual shipping container losses, And 827 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:41,920 Speaker 1: within that BBC article it states that somewhere between seven 828 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 1: hundred six hundred containers go missing or are lost at 829 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,960 Speaker 1: sea every year. That was between two thousand eight and 830 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, and then from two thousand eleven 831 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,640 Speaker 1: to two thousand thirteen, approximately two thousand seven hundred containers 832 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,120 Speaker 1: were lost on a yearly basis. So just think about 833 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: your just to your point, been about how many things 834 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,439 Speaker 1: are down at the bottom of the ocean and these 835 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,280 Speaker 1: containers that are degrading and just ready to release something. 836 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: M h. And so thank you Steve for providing us 837 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 1: with a little bit of a lighthearted look at this, 838 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: this ongoing strange story of things lost in the ocean 839 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 1: and returning to us. Some of the authors writing about 840 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 1: this and journalists have waxed poetic because how could you not. 841 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: Thank you also to our anonymous scientists who have written 842 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,799 Speaker 1: in to give us a behind the scenes look at 843 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,560 Speaker 1: the growing threat of nanoplastics. And thank you to Mental 844 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:49,919 Speaker 1: Biopsy for introducing many of our fellow listeners to their 845 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: next favorite Internet rabbit hole. Step to one side time Cube. 846 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: There's a new weird one in town. Uh. Thanks also, 847 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: by the way, to you Alessandra S who went onto 848 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: our Facebook page Here's where it gets crazy and said, 849 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: why won't the skeleton watch the scary movie? Yeah, he 850 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 1: doesn't have the guts, So thank you Alessandra. You're in 851 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: if you want to, uh, if you want to join 852 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,800 Speaker 1: up and hang out with our favorite part of the show. 853 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: Our fellow listeners then do head over to Facebook, to 854 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,160 Speaker 1: the instagrams, to the twitters. We try to be easy 855 00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,640 Speaker 1: to find. We love to recommend. Here's where it gets crazy. 856 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: All you have to do is mention one of our hosts, 857 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,880 Speaker 1: all of our hosts, one of our super producers, like 858 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,440 Speaker 1: code named dot Holiday or Mission Control or frankly it 859 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 1: is with a pun, make us laugh, something that lets 860 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: us know you listen to the show. But what if 861 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 1: you don't like social media? What if you heard the 862 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,399 Speaker 1: big data in the Facebook episodes. Well there's another way 863 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,200 Speaker 1: you can contact us. You can call us directly. Uh 864 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,399 Speaker 1: we wit and got our own phone number. That's right. 865 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,279 Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three st d w 866 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,279 Speaker 1: y t K call now. Leave a message. You can 867 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: call any time. It's not going to disturb anyone. It 868 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,359 Speaker 1: goes to a voicemail service. You'll hear Ben when he's done. 869 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: Leave that message. We want to hear anything you have 870 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: to say. You might end up on the show. 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It helps people target in on 878 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,279 Speaker 1: cool episodes they might be into or just discover the show. 879 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: It really does kind of boost that algorithm a little bit. 880 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: And especially now that we're kind of in a new 881 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,480 Speaker 1: way of doing things. Here's something I don't want you 882 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: to know. We'd love to hear your feedback, especially if 883 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,680 Speaker 1: it's good. It's good. Well, yeah, and don't forget to 884 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,839 Speaker 1: head on over to YouTube dot com. Slash can sp 885 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,960 Speaker 1: your see stuff. Make sure you're subscribed to check us 886 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,160 Speaker 1: out there. We're we're doing this on camera right now 887 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: if you're just listening to it, and you may see 888 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,399 Speaker 1: part of this on our YouTube channel. If you wish 889 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: to see our faces, man, we hope you do. But 890 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:15,800 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do that, you can always 891 00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,320 Speaker 1: contact us the good old fashioned way. We are conspiracy 892 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:40,839 Speaker 1: at I heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want 893 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 894 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,759 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I 895 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,759 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 896 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,