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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They call

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. And today candidly we are yet

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Speaker 1: again on the edge of the real but not not

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Speaker 1: perhaps in a way we have been in the past.

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Speaker 1: In our show, we've often swam into the deep philosophical

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Speaker 1: waters contemplated the nature of perception and reality. It's a

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Speaker 1: dilemma that only grows more important as time goes on.

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Speaker 1: If you're like most people on the planet, you are

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Speaker 1: already familiar with today's topic, reality television. Before we begin,

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Speaker 1: we need to put a disclaimer at the top. Matt, Noel,

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Speaker 1: Michion Control, and myself have all had some personal experience

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Speaker 1: with reality television, so we are entering today's exploration with

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Speaker 1: a bit of unavoidable bias. As always, we're going to

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Speaker 1: do our best to stay as objective as possible, but

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Speaker 1: in the interest of transparency, we would like to give

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Speaker 1: you a few war stories from our at times surreal

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Speaker 1: experiences with this phenomenon. It's sometimes called a genre, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's called a travesty, and sometimes it's called an art form.

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Speaker 1: So all fair, You know, we we hang out. We

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Speaker 1: hang out when this show is not rolling or we're

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Speaker 1: not recording uh an off air. Over the years, I

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Speaker 1: think we've all shared some of these stories with each other,

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Speaker 1: but as we were gearing up for this episode, we

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Speaker 1: were reminded of them again. So Noel Matt Michigan troll with.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've all got we've all got some weird

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Speaker 1: ones here. What uh what? What are what are our

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Speaker 1: personal experiences with reality TV? Well? Unknownst to you guys

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Speaker 1: or anybody else. Um, I am actually the uh the

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Speaker 1: sort of abandoned Kardashian uh son. I am the black

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Speaker 1: sheep of the Kardashian family. No one talks about me.

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Speaker 1: I had to change my name. Yeah, this isn't exclusive. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm obviously I'm obviously kidding. I would probably be assassinated

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Speaker 1: if that were the truth, and I dropped that on

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Speaker 1: the show. And it's funny you say you mentioned this.

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Speaker 1: Ben Um, Paul and I actually, in a previous life,

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Speaker 1: pre podcast, pre pandemic, work together on a pilot for

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Speaker 1: a reality show. Um, I don't think actually dropped the

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Speaker 1: name because I don't know if it's still of a

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Speaker 1: working affair potentially being pitched. It was a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and I haven't seen the show come into exact No,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I gotta do it. I gotta because

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Speaker 1: that the title was so great. It was called the

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Speaker 1: Underground Runway, which I felt was problematic for several reasons

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Speaker 1: because the implication makes you think of the underground railroad obviously,

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Speaker 1: which is not connected to frivolous fashion concerns and kind

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Speaker 1: of Real Housewives esque drama, which is what this show

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Speaker 1: very much was. It was these women, buckhead type Atlanta women, um,

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Speaker 1: starting a fashion brand in like a basement room of

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Speaker 1: this very affluent Buckhead esque let's say Buckhead like people

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Speaker 1: know that as Buckheat is sort of like the boogie

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Speaker 1: brunch part of Atlanta, and um, they manufactured a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of drama. There was one part where like they

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Speaker 1: had a package sent to the house for this one

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Speaker 1: particularly boisterous European woman. Um was sent like a like

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Speaker 1: a box of sex toys, I want to say, and

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend kept sending these inappropriate gifts to the house

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Speaker 1: and disrupting the flow of their you know, startup brainstorming sessions.

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Speaker 1: And it was all totally manufactured. And even in like

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Speaker 1: the stand ups, that was the part that I was

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Speaker 1: the most, uh kind of intrigued by. They're all frank

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Speaker 1: in bited, which is a term maybe people in the

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Speaker 1: media don't know, but it's where you just take words

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Speaker 1: and cut them up and put them in order to

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Speaker 1: make it sound like somebody says something they didn't say. Um,

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Speaker 1: And the director is literally they're feeding them, telling them

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Speaker 1: what to say, to push the drama and make it

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Speaker 1: as like salacious as possible. And it's it was a hoot.

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Speaker 1: I was only doing it for one day, but I

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Speaker 1: talked taught me everything I used to know about the

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Speaker 1: world of reality television. That's amazing. Wow, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: anything like that happened. I was a part of a

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Speaker 1: cooking show pilot one time, but and I guess a

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Speaker 1: cooking show in a way is unscripted. There's probably an

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Speaker 1: outline there was at least in the version that we attempted.

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Speaker 1: But it was just trying to get as much coverage

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Speaker 1: as you possibly could with as many cameras as you could,

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Speaker 1: and then the whole thing, the whole story, and everything

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Speaker 1: happens later. Basically that was my experience. Um, that particular

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Speaker 1: one involved the Dungeon family from Atlanta, and it never

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Speaker 1: saw the light of day, sadly yet. Yeah. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were probably just intimidated by having you, you know, by

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Speaker 1: having you on set with them, you know. Oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it was all Yeah, I'm sure. And Casey and

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Speaker 1: Tyler and Chandler. Yes, yeah, that's right. I forgot those

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Speaker 1: guys were involved as well. Uh. Yes, so, Matt, you

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Speaker 1: and I have had a very strange experience. We flew

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Speaker 1: to l A years years and years ago to make

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Speaker 1: a pilot, uh, make a pilot sizzle reel, which is

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Speaker 1: a very common thing with production companies. They'll they'll make,

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Speaker 1: almost on spec, ah, a fake trailer for a show

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Speaker 1: that doesn't yet exist. They'll show the trailer to a

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Speaker 1: network and say, wouldn't this be cool if this was

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Speaker 1: a trailer for a real show? Uh? And our experience

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Speaker 1: there was I had a fun time but I think

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Speaker 1: they were irritated with us because, um we yeah, we

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Speaker 1: flat out refused to play ball. Uh. They we can

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Speaker 1: talk about this now without naming too many specifics. So

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Speaker 1: so we get contacted. I think I get contact as

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Speaker 1: an individual. We get contacted as a show, uh, on

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Speaker 1: a on a not infrequent basis, with people who want

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Speaker 1: to pitch us ideas for things. And we were asked

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Speaker 1: to work on a essentially treasure hunting show, an investigative

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Speaker 1: treasure hunting docuseries kind of thing. Uh. They found out

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Speaker 1: that I am a melungeon, and that's a a very small,

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Speaker 1: tri racial isolate population it's called here in the US.

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Speaker 1: And they wanted us to act as if, uh, some

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Speaker 1: things that were legends were absolutely true and then they

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Speaker 1: were absolutely true and we're going to find them, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so they wanted us to pretend some things were

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Speaker 1: true that Matt and I knew not to be true.

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Speaker 1: They did want us to, you know, frank and bite

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Speaker 1: or get some takes, and they were very nice people. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I think they were a little irritated with us

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Speaker 1: when both Matt and I separately and together would just

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Speaker 1: put our foot down saying I won't say that because

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Speaker 1: it is it is untrue, and it's this leading And

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Speaker 1: then in a different life before hold on, do you

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Speaker 1: remember being out in the dry uh, just hills somewhere

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Speaker 1: out there. I forget exactly where it was, some somewhere

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Speaker 1: out there in near l A, with shovels and other

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Speaker 1: like old tools that they made us carry and walk

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Speaker 1: around for a long time while they shot video of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're a wildfire country. Yes, didn't they try to make

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Speaker 1: you wear like a Indiana Jones ask explorer like adventurer

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Speaker 1: outfits or something that I make that part up or

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Speaker 1: I seem to remember that from my wish No, okay,

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Speaker 1: I made that up. In then, well, I have some

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Speaker 1: stuff from what I was living in in uh More

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Speaker 1: on the road situations that I wore there. It was

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Speaker 1: it was just yeah, it was just very strange and

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Speaker 1: it was not us. Yeah, it wasn't really us. And

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Speaker 1: uh And then previously before falling into this pecasting thing,

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Speaker 1: I have been cast in several things, many of which

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Speaker 1: didn't come to fruition because you know, in the world

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Speaker 1: of television, of the stuff that gets pitched, nothing ever

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Speaker 1: comes of it. Uh. And so we we have all

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Speaker 1: had a little bit of experience in this world on

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Speaker 1: the production end, on the possible hosting or quote unquote

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Speaker 1: talent end. But as you can tell from the stories

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Speaker 1: you've heard from the three of us just now, there

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Speaker 1: is more true reality TV than what you see on

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Speaker 1: the screen, And the experience people have during production is

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Speaker 1: very different from the experience you, as a viewer have

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Speaker 1: when you see the end result. So today's question is

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Speaker 1: what is the reality behind reality television? Here are the facts.

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Speaker 1: When you think about reality TV, it sounds a bit strange,

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Speaker 1: and I remember it feeling strange. It was first really

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Speaker 1: spoke about in that way because it's technically a genre

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Speaker 1: of television. UM a lot of times it's known as

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Speaker 1: unscripted or non scripted television. It's usually starring relatively unknown

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Speaker 1: people or at least non actors, right, That's I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably the most important thing. They're non professional actors,

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Speaker 1: where sometimes they are professional actors. They're just posing as

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Speaker 1: a regular old person, uh, not an actor. You'll see

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Speaker 1: that a lot. Well maybe we'll talk about it later,

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Speaker 1: but you see that a lot. In competition shows. You

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Speaker 1: get working or actors who need work who go on

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Speaker 1: them at portmanteau for this one. Uh mactors model slash actors.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's great. Oh yeah, and you can totally

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Speaker 1: see that on a lot of reality television, people who

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Speaker 1: look entirely just too perfect to be running around and

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Speaker 1: doing whatever whack thing that the show is about. But

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Speaker 1: but the the whole point is you you don't have

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Speaker 1: a script. You put these non actors into basically real

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Speaker 1: life situations or larger than real life situations, and there's

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Speaker 1: nothing to do, really besides shoot a bunch of video

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Speaker 1: of these people doing the stuff, whatever it is, and

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Speaker 1: then you'll know. This is where you get to see

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Speaker 1: a lot of setups because there's always a little bit

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Speaker 1: of exposition right to explain them the rules of this

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Speaker 1: particular take on reality. My favorites are always the the

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Speaker 1: house hunter sub genres, where there's a couple that's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know Bill, Bill collects vintage condoms and Julie is

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Speaker 1: a spiritual guide for Corgis. They want a house with

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Speaker 1: four Jacuzzis in a helicopter landing pad. They needed by Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Their budget is twelve dollars and uh and I'm exaggerating

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Speaker 1: a little, but maybe not as much as uh as

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Speaker 1: I wish. So, of course, of course they're the most

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Speaker 1: picky people with twelve dollars you've ever seen. Yes, But

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Speaker 1: but it's like it's I think it's it's meant to

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Speaker 1: be aspirational, where it's like, I too could have a

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Speaker 1: multimillion dollar fixer upper in San Francisco, you know, me

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Speaker 1: with my meager podcast salary. You know, it's it's what

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Speaker 1: keeps people on the hook because it doesn't make them

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Speaker 1: feel like there's I think there's different like categories of

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Speaker 1: reality show. There's the ones that are meant to be

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Speaker 1: exclusive and be like a look into a world you

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Speaker 1: could never possibly be a part of. And then there's

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Speaker 1: ones like those that are aspirational and they're meant to

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Speaker 1: be like, oh that could be me. I could do that,

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Speaker 1: I could learn how to grout a bathtub or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. You know, It's it's interesting on all these

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Speaker 1: shows they fall into buckets, but at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, they're all about keeping you. You know, if

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Speaker 1: your eyes glued to the show, We're gonna talk about that,

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Speaker 1: right what it means, Like the reality that is prayed

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Speaker 1: to us? What does that mean? What are they telling us? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because so reality TV is a genre and want to

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Speaker 1: be fair to it today. So I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: put my thumb on the scales here when I say

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Speaker 1: the term reality TV is a group term, kind of

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Speaker 1: like the term cancer is a group term. It describes

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Speaker 1: a lot of very different things with uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: a core, a kind of spinal column of commonalities. Once

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Speaker 1: upon a time, you know, we would consider news programs

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Speaker 1: or interviews or talk shows to be reality TV, or uh,

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Speaker 1: follow alongs for law enforcement or medical professionals, or even

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Speaker 1: live quiz shows like, of course the quiz Show. So now,

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Speaker 1: as in, we're at a place where reality TV as

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Speaker 1: a concept has evolved, and the phrase means the specific

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Speaker 1: groupings of shows, And there's so many subgenres. Transactional shows

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Speaker 1: like storage Wars, pond Stars, documentary approaches of being diplomatic here,

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Speaker 1: varying credibility, makeover shows right, let us make you look appropriate? Right?

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Speaker 1: Let us that's it's a dangerous aspiration, uh. And then

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Speaker 1: shows where contestants ostensibly search for romance or our specifically,

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Speaker 1: competition shows like cooking shows, and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: what's the What's the Ninja Warrior, Ultimate Ninja ultimately warrior.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, yeah, like obsolutely, it's it's

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Speaker 1: basically grown up double there, you know, with much higher stakes.

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Speaker 1: You guys remember doubled there. Nickelodeon had a lot of

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Speaker 1: these back in the day. I mean, you're right, then

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Speaker 1: game shows do theoretically fall into that category in an

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Speaker 1: interesting way. But then there's that whole quiz show scandal

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Speaker 1: that showed even those types of shows lack credibility. That

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Speaker 1: was like could yeah, but it was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: It was a huge gerfuffle. There's a film about it,

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Speaker 1: uh with what's his face? Sam Rockwell, um, where it

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Speaker 1: talks about that whole Thing's also that he was like

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Speaker 1: a secret spy and there's all that's a really fast

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Speaker 1: It was called Portrait of a Dangerous Mind. I think

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Speaker 1: it's what it's called or something along those lines. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was essentially they were rigging it so that people

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Speaker 1: would stay engaged and you'd root for the the they

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Speaker 1: would basically like identify this is the contest of that

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Speaker 1: everybody likes, this is the one we want to do well,

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Speaker 1: these are the ones we want to eliminate. Has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with their actual intellect. It has to do

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Speaker 1: with what kind of you know, curatorial, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of stable of humans they want to push forth that

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Speaker 1: people can most identify with. Yeah, and that's why there are,

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Speaker 1: at least in the US, their federal laws regarding how

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Speaker 1: a competition has to be carried out. But there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of loopholes in that, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: and you can that's why you'll see a lot of

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Speaker 1: tiered competitions. There are multiple episodes right of the same competition,

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Speaker 1: and so you can see the producers or showrunners tilting

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Speaker 1: things in favor of one person or another based on

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Speaker 1: their ratings, right, or based on audience response. But you

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Speaker 1: might also see something like snapshot of life, people with

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Speaker 1: a very specific job, truckers driving across roads made of

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Speaker 1: ice in the far North. I'd say it's also I'd

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Speaker 1: say it's also common to see wealthy, vapid people try

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Speaker 1: and fail to do anything worthwhile or of interest. But

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Speaker 1: you know, that's like interest is in the eye of

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Speaker 1: the beholder. And again, you know, I'm not saying I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying these people are vapid. I'm saying they are

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Speaker 1: portrayed as being vapid by the producers. Someone's telling you

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Speaker 1: or you know, steering towards what you can see. You'll

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Speaker 1: see people vying for a specific prize, a music deal,

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Speaker 1: a million dollars weight loss. Love it or hate it.

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Speaker 1: This is a massive genre and it's older then. A

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Speaker 1: lot of us in the audience today probably think like

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Speaker 1: you think Big Brother, you think, uh, the real world

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Speaker 1: and Puck and everything. But the truth is something like

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Speaker 1: this genre has been around since the earliest days of television.

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Speaker 1: We have to remember when television came out, when it

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Speaker 1: started rolling out, it was much more experimental. People weren't

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Speaker 1: sure what would work, kind of the way that uh

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Speaker 1: podcasts were several years ago. This like, there's this show

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Speaker 1: in nine called Queen for a Day, Queen for a Day,

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Speaker 1: and you can you can find some clips online about this.

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Speaker 1: Queen for a Day would have various contestants come on

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Speaker 1: the show and explain their plights, often in a very

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Speaker 1: tearful way, to an audience, and there would be an applausometer,

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Speaker 1: and if this person's tale of woe and tribulation connected

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Speaker 1: most with the audience measured by applause, then they would

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Speaker 1: be given like they would sit on a throne. They

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Speaker 1: would get some they would get some like costumery that

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Speaker 1: looked like royalty. They would get a dozen roses and

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Speaker 1: then they would get a list of prizes. This show

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Speaker 1: was tremendously popular. There was another show called Candid Camera. Well,

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Speaker 1: remember that the guy who made Candid Camera also had

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Speaker 1: a show in the days of radio called Candid Microphone.

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Speaker 1: And that's where like that genre is. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us in the West are familiar with it.

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Speaker 1: People got pranked and then they would learn later that

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Speaker 1: they were being filmed by hidden cameras. Like I think

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Speaker 1: most of us probably have not seen actually seen an

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Speaker 1: episode of Candid Camera, but it's it's uh, it is

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Speaker 1: part of our zeitgeist. Now smile, you're on the camera, right, yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: and now that everyone has a camera, it's happening all

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Speaker 1: the time without our knowledge. And that show came out

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Speaker 1: in nineteen you know. So there were other predecessors that

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Speaker 1: were more serious in tone that we're a little bit

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Speaker 1: more like what we might call a PBS documentary. There's

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Speaker 1: one that's of continuing relevance today called seven Up. Do

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Speaker 1: you guys, You guys remember hearing about that? Yes, Seven

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Speaker 1: Up was a television show in nineteen sixty four. That

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Speaker 1: got together a group of kids who are all aged

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Speaker 1: seven and conducted interviews with them, and then every following

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Speaker 1: seven years they would interview them again, so in chunks

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Speaker 1: of seven years, just to see how all of these

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Speaker 1: people are growing up, what are their aspirations at seven,

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Speaker 1: How did it play out when they were fourteen? Probably

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Speaker 1: not so great. That's middle school. Nobody likes that. And

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Speaker 1: then but then continued on and the most recent installment

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Speaker 1: actually came out in nineteen just last year. It's called

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Speaker 1: sixty three Up. Wow. Yep. It's interesting because it began

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Speaker 1: with and I think, uh, this would be of interest

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Speaker 1: to you as well, Mission control. It It began without

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Speaker 1: really a plot, you know, or the constraints that are

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Speaker 1: familiar in today's reality TV shows. They documentary style. We're

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Speaker 1: talking to these people about their lives, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of found the themes and the narration and the arc

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Speaker 1: as these people aged. Yeah, and and and that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's the true mark of a good documentary. You kind

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Speaker 1: of go and maybe with a little bit of understanding

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Speaker 1: of what you're going to cover, and then if you

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Speaker 1: do it for long enough period, the story kind of

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Speaker 1: reveals itself. I think the best documentary is often like

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Speaker 1: the filmmakers go in maybe with one idea of what

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get, and then it takes some interesting turn.

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Speaker 1: But the only way you can do that is by

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Speaker 1: covering a topic for a very very long time and

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Speaker 1: being able to kind of roll with the punches as

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Speaker 1: things change, as parts of the stories develop in ways

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Speaker 1: you hadn't expected. So these seven up docs really are documentary, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, very well thought out, very well produced documentary

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Speaker 1: style filmmaking, as opposed to more of what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about today, which are which are very much

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Speaker 1: the antithesis of that. So fast forward. N ABC creates

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Speaker 1: a show called The American Sportsman. This show, uh, this

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Speaker 1: show introduces celebrity kind of like for its own sake,

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Speaker 1: Like here are famous people with which are already familiar,

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Speaker 1: but there maybe not necessarily doing this stuff they're famous for. Instead,

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Speaker 1: they and family members and maybe friends are doing outdoor activities.

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Speaker 1: They're driving race cars, you know, they're they're hunting, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: The action in the dialogue as a result of this

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Speaker 1: was unscripted. Uh. The the only scripted stuff would be

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Speaker 1: vo narration vo meaning voice over, and this is often

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Speaker 1: today consider the first modern reality show. But again, for

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Speaker 1: a lot of us listening today, the paradigm shift for

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Speaker 1: reality TV begins with shows like the Real World, which

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Speaker 1: premiered in n UH. Strangers are selected, not famous people,

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Speaker 1: maybe people who aspire to be famous, Uh, these people anyway,

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Speaker 1: and they're selected based on what the showrunners see as

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Speaker 1: their potential for discord and uh. And then they are

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Speaker 1: put together in a shared living space and what happens

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Speaker 1: when people stop being polite and start being real? Right?

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Speaker 1: This is something that MTV spun out in multiple spinoffs

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Speaker 1: and spinoffs. Did you guys watch this when you were

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Speaker 1: when you were younger? Did not? Okay? I? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: Ben did not. Matt Dead, I definitely did. I don't

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Speaker 1: think the earliest one was I believe San Francisco. Maybe

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Speaker 1: was it London? And I don't recall, but I definitely

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Speaker 1: remember Puck Puck. He was such a jerk. And then

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Speaker 1: there was there was one particular season where there was

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Speaker 1: like this kind of goth metal guy who was in

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Speaker 1: London and he like sent his girlfriend a pig's heart

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Speaker 1: with a nail through it in a box and it

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Speaker 1: was so like Emo and I loved it. I was

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Speaker 1: whatever his name was. He had like facial piercing. That's

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Speaker 1: all I remember. But that was a leap forward because

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Speaker 1: it really did feel like, oh my god, I'm a

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Speaker 1: fly on the wall watching these people's lives unfold very

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Speaker 1: organically with no input from producers. Surely right, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: certainly not cameras everywhere as you're trying to have an

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Speaker 1: actual interaction with someone, and there's certainly not being applied

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Speaker 1: with alcohol or other intoxicants, right, and god forbid there'd

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Speaker 1: be a second take of something anyhow, Yes, you guys

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Speaker 1: are right from there. The genre was very much off

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Speaker 1: to the races. Now we have so many subgenres what

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Speaker 1: is called reality TV. There are spinoffs of spinoffs of spinoffs,

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Speaker 1: just like the heyday of sitcoms. The trend does not

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Speaker 1: seem set to die down anytime soon. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, if anything, it can. The trend continues, it

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Speaker 1: escalates in alone, there were hundreds and hundreds of reality

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Speaker 1: TV shows on primetime cable, eight three more than scripted shows. Crucially,

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Speaker 1: that number is not, uh, the the entire snapshot, because

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Speaker 1: that only accounts for series that aired during primetime and

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Speaker 1: on cable, so we're not counting broadcast network reality shows

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Speaker 1: like American Idol or Survivor or all the documentary programs

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Speaker 1: on PBS. Once again, thank you PBS for be there.

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Speaker 1: It's a big proponent PBS. If you have cable in

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Speaker 1: and you know a lot of us don't, A lot

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Speaker 1: of us are cord cutters. But if you have cable

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Speaker 1: and you're near a television, odds are that if you

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Speaker 1: turn it on right now and you just scroll through

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Speaker 1: the channels, you will find inevitably some sort of thing

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Speaker 1: that could be called unscripted or reality TV. It's here

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Speaker 1: to stay, and despite what often seems to be its

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Speaker 1: innocuous nature, it shouldn't surprise anybody to know what that

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Speaker 1: Reality TV is enormously controversial. Fans and critics of the

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Speaker 1: shows in this genre will readily admit it is not

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Speaker 1: as real as it is often made to seem. Spoiler

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Speaker 1: that is not the big plot twist for today's episode. UH.

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Speaker 1: Audience interests may also not be the driving factor in

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Speaker 1: the boom. In fact, some sub networks maybe UH pushing

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Speaker 1: programming that audiences don't particularly want, and according to some

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Speaker 1: reality television may be dangerous. What are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's

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Speaker 1: where it gets crazy there. First things first, long time listeners,

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Speaker 1: I hope you know that this would not be our

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Speaker 1: only twist for the episode. There's several crazy things. But yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we're in a bubble Matt Noel.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like everybody knows reality TV is much

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Speaker 1: less real than it purports to be, right, Like that's

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Speaker 1: not classified document or anything. Yeah, it's like wrestling, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe there's that one poor little kid who's

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Speaker 1: gonna have his his mind blown when he realizes that, uh,

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Speaker 1: wrestling is not real. Hopefully I'm not doing that to

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Speaker 1: you poor little kid right now. But same with reality TV.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, I think it's pretty much not even

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Speaker 1: an open secret because you can't even say it's a secret.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like people come right out and say it.

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Speaker 1: But everyone kind of knows. There's been plenty of expose

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Speaker 1: as is a really Adam Ruins everything about it that

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00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: does a really good job of demystifying all of some

426
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: of the tactics and specific production techniques that go into

427
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: the making of a reality show, some of which you

428
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: know I talked about at the beginning of the show.

429
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's very much a known thing, and it

430
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: doesn't The interesting thing about it is it doesn't really

431
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: affect your enjoyment of it, or it doesn't seem to

432
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: have caused it to wane in popularity, I think, is

433
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. Same with wrestling and exactly, and

434
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: it really is the invisible hand of storytelling that we're

435
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: going to talk about, the how the editors have a

436
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: lot of control over that in in this world. One

437
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: thing we didn't mention earlier was just the number of

438
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: streaming service only reality shows because those things are just

439
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: flooded with all of those shows or types of the

440
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: shows that we mentioned at the top of the show.

441
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: I'm never looking over and writing a note, Matt, because

442
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: this is excellent foreshadowing. I have a I have a

443
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: thing about this. Okay, okay, oh no, no, no, no,

444
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: this is perfect because this this leads us to a

445
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: very weird, very weird cultural rabbit holes. And But but

446
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: to do the due diligence, as is our want and

447
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: warrant on this show, we are going to We're going

448
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: to proceed to uh demolish any illusions that some of

449
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: us may still have about the reality depicted in reality television.

450
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: As as we said earlier, producers are the storytellers. I

451
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: really love that phrase, the invisible hand of storytelling. To Matt,

452
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: producers might frank and by audio, take visual clips, edit

453
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: them out of context to get closer to a desired narrative.

454
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: Good example of this off the top of my head.

455
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: If you are a producer on a show and you

456
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: want to of the cast members on the show to fight,

457
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: then maybe you know, these are not dumb people. They're

458
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: they're pretty smart. Uh so they may even like each

459
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: other and they don't want to seem like they're fighting.

460
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: But all you have to do is take a clip

461
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: of like take a clip of Matt and Noel on

462
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: on a camping trip and Matt saying, hey, is there

463
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: do we do we have any more coffee? And then

464
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Noel goes, oh, sorry, I didn't make any yet, and

465
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: then just cut to uh, cut to a different clip.

466
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: Like this is why there was always the stand ups

467
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: or the confessional parts. Cut to a different clip where

468
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: there the producer's off screen asking Matt like, so what

469
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: do you think of Adolph Hitler? And then Matt's like,

470
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: I think he's a terrible person, right, I think Adolf

471
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: Hitler is a terrible, terrible person, Like, could you say

472
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: that but not say the name Adolf Hitler's like, oh yeah,

473
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: I hate him. I think he's a monster. And then

474
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: in the post production the editing, it goes straight from

475
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: the clip of a very normal conversation about should we

476
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: make coffee to Matt saying I hate him. I think

477
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: he's a monster. And then and then they'll just frank

478
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: and bite some other clip of um of Noel saying

479
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: something again completely innocuous. Maybe they used the Hitler trick

480
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: on him that I'm making that up, but it is

481
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: a very plausible thing. And then maybe if they don't

482
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: have to frank and bite you guys, if you're totally

483
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: down to play ball and jump through those hoops, then

484
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: they'll lean into it and say, okay, uh, we want

485
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: you guys to really disagree about I don't know about

486
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: where a tent should be pitched, and then and go okay,

487
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, and you guys have the argument about where

488
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: the tent should be pitched like that was great. That

489
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: was great, guys, that was really honest. Um, we're gonna

490
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: reset a couple of cameras because we want to get

491
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: a good over the shoulder on Matt and then you'll

492
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: just have the argument again like those some of those

493
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: things you see that appear to spontaneous organic disputes are

494
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: like multiple iterative takes. Oh. Absolutely, And like I was

495
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: saying with the pilot that Paul and I worked on,

496
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: the producers will actively do things to to game the system,

497
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: like sending those packages you know to this uh potentially

498
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: braggadocious uh, you know cast member who in an effort

499
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: to like get the other women to be annoyed with

500
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: her being all, look at me, my boyfriend sending me

501
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: all these amazing gifts. Oh, he loves me so much.

502
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: And then they have like, so, what do you think

503
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: about Anya? Like she's a little much huh Oh my god, Yes,

504
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: Anya is the worst. You know she had She sent

505
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: those two herself. You know that she did that just

506
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: to like, you know, be the center of attention, right

507
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: and then you know, yeah, and then they asked, Anya,

508
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: what do you think that? Well, I don't understand why

509
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: the other goesa so mean to me. You know, I

510
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: just I'm just so beautiful and my boyfriend just loves me.

511
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: What's wrong with that? You know, and then it all

512
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: comes to a head. And even that's manufacturer because they

513
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: literally have each other talking trash about each other behind

514
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: their backs, and they're poking the bear essentially and creating

515
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: this situation where there's this like explosion moment and then

516
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: they capture that too, and they potentially do that from

517
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: other angles. You know, it's it's it's it's pretty wild.

518
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: Let me play this clip of what Anya said for you,

519
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: and I'd like you to react to it exactly, or

520
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: even if you're in one of those confessional booths. Was

521
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: a big right in front of you and there's a

522
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: producer in your ear and just saying, you know, we

523
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: captured some pretty disturbing stuff earlier. Um that was said

524
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: about you, and I just love to know what you

525
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: think about this, And that's all you have to do

526
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: because I'm on your side. Yeah, I want to hear

527
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: your side of this. Uh, there's you know. The first

528
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: example two is often things will get phrased as questions.

529
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: That's one that's one big part of interrogation and psychosocial manipulation. Right,

530
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: You don't you don't have to tell people what to say.

531
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: You ask people a question and then frame it in

532
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: such way that you're trying to get them to say

533
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: what you want them to say, as though it were

534
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: their ideas. So, for instance, if you're on a pilot

535
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: about hunting for some uh fictitious lost silver mine in

536
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: the apple in the Appalachian forest, and someone says, you know,

537
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: I heard that there was a lost silver mind and

538
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: I heard that there were even statues there hidden that

539
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: might have some mayan influence. What do you think about that?

540
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: And like, well, it's the first time I've heard it,

541
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's true. Oh and if you

542
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: could please rephrase my question and your answer, please rephrase

543
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: my question and your answer. By the way, what if

544
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: it but what if that happens to but what I'm

545
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: talking about? Like they but what if it was? Could

546
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: you just repeat the question, which is why? Like which

547
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: is why. You'll see people who are you know, um,

548
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: incredibly reputable scientists who are top notch right, and they'll they'll, uh,

549
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: they'll come off looking like they believe wholeheartedly and ancient

550
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: aliens or something like that, and a lot of those

551
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: scientists are very upset, you know, when when they see

552
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: the end result because they've been told just to say Uh,

553
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: just like read these questions, and they'll read five questions,

554
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: and one of them is the one that the showrunner

555
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: is aiming to use right well, and and the reason

556
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: I bring up the whole please rephrase my question in

557
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: your response. A. It's a good technique so that you

558
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: can cut out the interviewer's voice so that you have

559
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: a self contained sound by but it also kind of

560
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: primes the pump for whatever forgetting that person to talk

561
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: about what you want them to talk about. So you

562
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: asked them this question, and then they literally have to

563
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: kind of frame their entire answer around incorporating that question

564
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: into their response, thereby making that sort of the locust

565
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: of control for the whole, the whole shebang, where like

566
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: it starts from okay, I have to like answer, maybe

567
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: it's a leading question. It usually is, and then you're

568
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: playing totally playing ball by making that question part of

569
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: your answer when maybe it was a question that it

570
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: was phrased in a divisive way or in a leading

571
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: way or in some way kind of like you know, um, misleading. Uh,

572
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: this is the way I think about it, guys. So, Uh,

573
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: most of us out there have scenes or know what

574
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: a script is, right, We understand that it's a series

575
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: of words on a lot of paper that tells usually

576
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: a camera and actors what to do. That's generally in

577
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: what's going to happen on set. The way I think

578
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: about reality TV is that you don't have a script

579
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: at all until you've got all or most of your

580
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: stuff shot, and then you form that script backwards basically

581
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: from what you know, you what you want to happen,

582
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: and then everything else you kind of plot in with

583
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: footage that you've collected, right, and there's gonna be holes

584
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: in there that I need to get from point A

585
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: to point B somehow. Now I need to get this

586
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: person or somebody else to say this very specific thing.

587
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: And they use the technique Ben is talking about where

588
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: they will just try and seed you with something as

589
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: the actor or character, or try and psychologically manipulate it

590
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: out of you in some way. And for many people

591
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: this can feel like a big break. You know, so

592
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: we're incentivized to play ball. But but okay, so we've

593
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: we've proven that this stuff happens. Producers, also, by the way,

594
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: are known for breaking various rules off camera. You're in

595
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: a survival show, right, there's one where it's like literally,

596
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: people are supposed to be running around naked, surviving in

597
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: the wild, but off off air, they're supplied with medicine,

598
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: they're supplied with food and things like that when the

599
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: cameras aren't rolling. So yes, there are many, many, many,

600
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: many instances of what could be called active conspiracies on

601
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: the sets of many reality TV shows. That doesn't make

602
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: them bad again, because hey, if it's an open secret

603
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: and people still dig it and no one is getting

604
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: hurt and no big whoop? Right, uh, where where's where?

605
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: Where's the beef? Where's the impossible burger? In that one?

606
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: But it turns out because remember, folks, we said, that's

607
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: not the big twist here. Everybody knows that reality TV

608
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 1: itself is got a more than a bit of cave

609
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: aid to it. As they say in wrestling, economic factors

610
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: are at play in a very very big way here. Uh. One,

611
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: one thing is interesting, you guys, remember the writer's strike

612
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: two thousand seven are very much especially with regularly occurring shows,

613
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: late night shows, talk shows. I remember that being a

614
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: major issue. Yeah. Wow, everything from the Daily Show to

615
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: Cone into all of those gave us horrible That was cool.

616
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: I still love that one. Uh, yeah, hamstrung broadcasting cable networks.

617
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: And remember there's a billion dollar industry. They're scrambling desperately

618
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: to find any original content to fill that programming schedule.

619
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: These are not the days of early television. You can't

620
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: just say, well, it's ten PM, so we're signing off.

621
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: Here's our you know, here's here's a holding pattern screen.

622
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: So as an end result of that, when they couldn't

623
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: get the scripted shows running, right How I Met Your Mother?

624
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: At CRILL the mainstays more than one hundred unscripted shows, competitions,

625
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: dating games, life improvement stuff. Uh, more than one hundred

626
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: either debuted or returned in a single season. And I

627
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: was looking into, uh, the boots on the ground for

628
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: this from both people who are established industry insiders and

629
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: then people who are kind of like pop culture pundits

630
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: observing this, and they said they don't all agree on

631
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: how much impact the writer's strike actually had on the

632
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: explosion of reality TV, since it was already well underway,

633
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: but now they said it was something they could no

634
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: longer be dismissed as a trend or a fad. From

635
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: that point forward, reality programs began to top the ratings

636
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: week after week after week, and it was so good

637
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: for the bottom line. This is something that we have

638
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: run into even in our own little uh, our own

639
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: little domain of media. Unscripted television is much much cheaper

640
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: because you don't need a writer, you don't need a

641
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: set barely. I mean, if you're doing a game show,

642
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: I guess, but that weren't rest a little bit a

643
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: conversation for a different day. Um, you just need a

644
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: handful of producers or handlers. Uh. You wouldn't even really

645
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: call them a director most of the time. I think

646
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: they're just producers who are kind of like you know,

647
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: you've got a camera crew and people that are making

648
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: sure to get the coverage, and you probably have a

649
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: director of photography that's just assuring that they capture as

650
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: much as humanly possible. But so many of these shows

651
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: to like use things like go pros or use like

652
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: even iPhone footage, you know. I mean it's that you

653
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: don't need a massive, glitzy production with tons of lighting.

654
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: You can use a skeleton crew and you're just setting

655
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: up and picking up in some very like maybe there's

656
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: a whole show that takes place. Definitely there is in

657
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: the house, like a Big Brother situation where it's just

658
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: lots of little cheapye GoPro cameras mounted everywhere, and those

659
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: confessional booths or what have you. It's all really really affordable.

660
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: And think about something as simple as set dressing in

661
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: in a place. So in a reality show, this person

662
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: and you may enhance the reality of what exists in

663
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: their room right to make that character seem more, oh,

664
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: they really like baseball. But in a in a film

665
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: or a televis scripted television series, you have to very

666
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: specifically place things that are going to tell you about

667
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: the arc of that character. And the money that you

668
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: spend on just stuff for set dressing is insane. And

669
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: the people you have to pay to make sure all

670
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: of that stuff gets in the right place and is

671
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: in the right spot every time your roll camera. Um,

672
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: and that's like the tiniest liver of expenses that you're

673
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: saving when you make unscripted And that is UH. I

674
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: hope you don't get mad at me for disclosing this man,

675
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: but uh, Matt, I can tell you're still a little

676
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: bit bitter about the uh set design costs that sank,

677
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: That sank your historically accurate period piece series right on.

678
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: What was that again? What time period was that? My

679
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: historically accurate period accurate period piece project? Oh? Man, improv improv,

680
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: yes and yes, and oh it was. I got nothing, guys,

681
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: I've kind of got something like this going on behind

682
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: me right now. If you can see this video, I

683
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: am ridiculously delayed right now in our zoom called by

684
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: the way, and it is weirding me out. But I've

685
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: set dressed the everything that's behind me to be Matt,

686
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: like this is Matt to the character represented in things

687
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: behind me. And it's what you would do for either

688
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: production scripted or unscripted. But I guess the stakes of

689
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: it for unscripted or so smaller. I don't know where

690
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm going with this guy. Yeah, I totally I I

691
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 1: totally improv rules through you under the bus. I apologize,

692
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: but um, but but I just I love the idea

693
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: of you having uh like this mostly and they can

694
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: sweeping historical epic and then like the breaking point for

695
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: the budget was making sure you add historically accurate you know,

696
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: like carriages or something. But but that happens, you know,

697
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: and it is You're right, there are so many expenses

698
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: to come into play, like uh, according to e Online

699
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: and according to History Channel, a thirty minute episode of

700
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: your average reality TV show halts somewhere between a hundred

701
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: grand to five grand to produce. That's a huge amount

702
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: of money for individuals, but in the world of television,

703
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: it's not very much money at all. That's a steel

704
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: that's a fire sale. Because if you look at the

705
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: other side of the spectrum. Uh, think about what we

706
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: call prestige television, right, breaking Bad Sopranos set or the

707
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: last season of Game of Thrones, despite being enormously divisive, Uh,

708
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: keeping my personal opinions out here. Uh, each episode of

709
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: that last season cost fifteen million dollars. Think of how

710
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: much reality TV you can make with fifteen mil Oh

711
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: my god, so many fewer people. No sets. You don't

712
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: have to be in the winter. Winter is not coming

713
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: in your reality show unless you're the Ice Road Truckers.

714
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: It's already come. It's too late, right, right, and an

715
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: ice road truckers, I think they have their own trucks,

716
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: so you don't have to pay for those either. This

717
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: means that there's inherently going to be more risk in

718
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: making any kind of scripted show because a huge budget

719
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: doesn't always translate to huge ratings, doesn't always translate to

720
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: commercial success. You could spend millions of dollars per episode

721
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: on a season of something, and critics could pan it,

722
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: and you know, like it would be the worst move

723
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: of your career. So why write a stunnying fantasy? Why

724
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: produce this historically accurate, sweeping thing when you could just

725
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: churn and burn unscripted material across all these different subgenres.

726
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean, the weird thing is, for a while, production

727
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: houses were creating scripted television and it's very expensive to

728
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: create it, and they were also regularly losing in their

729
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: ratings to reality TV. Oh yeah, I mean we run

730
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: into that a lot in podcast world, and a lot

731
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: of big television production companies are seeing that as an

732
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: opportunity as well, where it's all about the intellectual property wars,

733
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: where it's like people want to develop things for as

734
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: cheaply as possible and test out intellectual property. And we

735
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: see that happening with shows like Homecoming that started off

736
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: as a podcast, did moderately well as a podcast, and

737
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: then since they knew there was an interest, it's almost

738
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: like a pretty cheap focus group version of a more

739
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: expensive thing. Then they they sold it as a television

740
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: show and then it did very well and now it's

741
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: got multiple seasons and it's on streaming. And it's an

742
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: interesting world with the media landscape, especially now guys with

743
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: COVID and the movie theaters essentially being like on the

744
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: brink of annihilation. Like we saw that movie Tenant come

745
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: out and and did like why I think thirty million

746
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: dollars total over like two weeks, which and it costs

747
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: like hundreds of millions of dollars, and that it just

748
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: does not bode well for the industry. So they're gonna,

749
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: I wonder if we're gonna see more of this kind

750
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: of stuff or more things as podcasts where it's all

751
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: about how quickly and cheaply can you make it um

752
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: while you know, still presenting an appearance of quality or

753
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: integrity or what have you. Yeah, well, let's let's talk

754
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: about that. The money, the actual ticket price right really quickly. Here,

755
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: History Channel or you know History, excuse me History, they

756
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: would budget two thousand to four thousand per episode for

757
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: an unscripted show. Just then they make a lot of them,

758
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: and they have historically made a lot of them, and

759
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: and they air some of the highest rated shows in America.

760
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: Their show Pond Stars that we've talked about, we mentioned

761
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,479
Speaker 1: at least in passing at the top of the show

762
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: where it's literally a pawn shop. What happens that's exciting

763
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: in this pawn shop, Well, you gotta tune in to

764
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: find out that was beating mad Men, one of the

765
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: most lauded shows to come around in a long time.

766
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: It was beating that Pod Stars was beating mad Men

767
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: in ratings on Sunday nights when they were both airing

768
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: at the same time, and it was infinitely cheaper. The

769
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: profit margins are much higher because the production costs are

770
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: much lower. The people that would be the talent, right

771
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: the principal cast of something like Pawn Pond Stars or

772
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: something like American Pickers or something, they tend to make

773
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: much much less than actors in a scripted series. We've

774
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: all heard stories about a successful sitcom and how much

775
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: money each actor makes per episode. Also, the scripting we

776
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: talked about this little The scripting that does occur is

777
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: kind of like a long form, semi improvised thing. There

778
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: beats to this story. There's a narrative spine and that

779
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: falls on the producers. The producers are not considered writers.

780
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: They're not represented by a writer's union. That also lowers

781
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: the cost. Those two factors alone mean the profit margin

782
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: on a reality TV production can go as high as

783
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: fort like back in its back in its glory days,

784
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: American Idol was making. It was generating nineties six million

785
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: dollars in revenue. That gave it a gross profit margin

786
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: of seventy seven percent. And that's just based on the

787
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: ad dollars. That doesn't count that d d D sales

788
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: back in the days of physical media were huge income

789
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: stream people were buying you know, the Real Housewives of

790
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: insert city here, and they were buying it on DVD

791
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: or Blu ray, and they were keeping it, they were

792
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: giving it as a gift of friends and so on.

793
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: Product placement super easy, you know, because I'm like excited

794
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: to uh to work with Shaun Puffy Colmes and I

795
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: really need to get uh, I need to get my

796
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: my verse in and nothing charges me up like uh

797
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: monster energy. You know. Well yeah, and then Matt, to

798
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: your point about set dressing, I almost would say more

799
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: attention on reality TV show in terms of set dressing

800
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: goes into making sure those brands are visible in the background,

801
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: or that something's placed on a kitchen table or are

802
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: seen prominently in the fridge, you know, or whatever it is. Like,

803
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: that's the kind of set dressing, because it's all about

804
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: maximizing those dollars and then making sure that no, it

805
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if oh this tells us story about a

806
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: person or an arc. It's can you see the box

807
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: of flame? And hot cheetahs you know come in boxes,

808
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: they come in bags. But you get what I'm saying.

809
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: And one other piece of revenue for any reality TV

810
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: show is actually licensing. If I've got a show like

811
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: The Bachelor, let me, I could republish The Bachelor all

812
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: the livelong day in another country. But why don't I

813
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: just sell a license, have someone else make their own

814
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: version of The Bachelor, and just wait by the mailbox

815
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: for the check. That's something else that happens to Every

816
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 1: country has an idol, right, right, So we have two

817
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: we have we have two twists there. First that reality

818
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: shows are so profitable because they are so comparatively they're

819
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: so so cheap to produce, right uh. And then we

820
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: know that it is in fact a very for being diplomatic,

821
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: a very guided version of reality at the very least.

822
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: But those aren't the twist that should bother you. That

823
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't be what haunts you the next time you watch

824
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: reality television. There should be something that haunts you. We'll

825
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: tell you what it is after a word from our sponsor.

826
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: So the final twist is what we could perhaps call

827
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: cultural danger. This reminds me a lot of we've seen

828
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: it depicted in fiction as well. In the film adaptation

829
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: of The Hunger Games, there is a American idol esque

830
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: reality show component to the to the death matches that

831
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: these children are forced to fight in. And this didn't

832
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: come from, you know, just the mind of the author.

833
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: Over at The New Yorker, a writer and journalist named

834
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: Khalifa Sona outline some of the less obvious dangers of

835
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the cultural impact and enormous influence wielded by reality TV.

836
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: Anthropologists have been looking at the concept of reality TV

837
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: since as far back as the nineteen seventies and nineteen

838
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: seventy three. Anthropologist Margaret Mead wrote an essay that was

839
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: kind of under the radar published in TV Guide, where

840
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: she expounded on the impact of this new genre. She

841
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: said it was a new kind of art form as

842
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: significant as the invention of the drama or the novel.

843
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: There's another author, Jennifer L. Posner wrote a book called

844
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: Reality Bites Back The Troubling Truth about Guilty Pleasure TV,

845
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: and she notes that a lot of these shows, whether

846
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: by design or by accident, a lot of these shows

847
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: end up reinforcing what are seeing as cultural or social norms.

848
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: It's education as well as entertainment. When you when you

849
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: watched these shows and you re act when we when

850
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: we react as though we are scandalized by something, or

851
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: we are touched or we are saddened, what we are

852
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: reacting to is the depiction of a cultural norm or

853
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: what someone wants to be a cultural norm that is

854
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: foisted upon us as the viewer. Or we're rooting for

855
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: someone to meet cultural norms and to be like us,

856
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: one of us, or to you know, to to yeah,

857
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: to conform. Really, what we're learning is conformity. It is

858
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: an education as much as it's entertainment, but it's not

859
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: sold as such. And that's that's a secret that people

860
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: don't talk about as often as they should. In some cases,

861
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: this stuff is straight up propaganda. Think about it. A

862
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: show about losing weight reinforces the concept of what is

863
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: or is not considered an acceptable or ideal body image.

864
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: Shows about finding love have this heavy implication that people

865
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: cannot be happy by them selves, that to be a

866
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: full member of society, one must participate in rituals like marriage.

867
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: Makeover shows skirt the line of ridiculing people for you know,

868
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: being themselves, that they want us to uh, they want

869
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: us as the audience to agree that, yes, these wretched

870
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: souls are just not good enough. So thank god, and

871
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: think the network that someone is here to correct that misconception.

872
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: For my personal amusement, I mean, think about the racial

873
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: stereotypes that proliferate through a lot of these things. A

874
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: lot of matchmaking shows to uh, they're like, they're numerous contestants.

875
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: Multiple shows have alleged serious discrimination based on race. Oh yeah,

876
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: for sure. And just something to think about here. In

877
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: any any thing you're watching on television, there is always

878
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: subtext to what is occurring at all times. Times. Actions

879
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: that are taking place, character representations, even if they are reality,

880
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: the way they are represented, their subtext to that. There's

881
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 1: stuff that is not said, It's not on the page

882
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 1: written down, but it has meaning. There's a reasoning that

883
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: you come to whether consciously or subconsciously about these things.

884
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: And it's no different in something like the Sopranos versus

885
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: something like honey Boo boo. There's subtext in there that

886
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: maybe you're not necessarily grasping in that moment, Like Ben

887
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,959
Speaker 1: just described a lot of various ones. But yeah, there's

888
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: there's some there's some pretty bad stuff that's been alleged here.

889
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: Just I just want to put the subtext angle in there. Yeah,

890
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean, consider also there's a transactional angle to a

891
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: lot of this humiliate yourself for in front of millions

892
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: of strangers, for the chance at somehow, in some way

893
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: having a better life. Those contestants on Wean for a Day, right,

894
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: or or thousands of reality TV show contestants over the

895
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: intervening decades, they're forced to undergo various forms of degradation

896
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: emotional trauma, or at least the appearance of it, for

897
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: the passive amusement of strangers. Fear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, eat bugs,

898
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: Why go to college? Yeah, goat penis whatever? Yeah, But

899
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, it is kind of the modern equivalent

900
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: of like bread and circuses, like the you know, gladiator battles,

901
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: Like it's people. It's it's literally, it's weaponized schadenfreude where

902
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: we it's so popular because it makes people feel better

903
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: about themselves to watch people they perceive as lesser than

904
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: them humiliating themselves on public television. And I look at

905
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: that idiot. At least I'm not that stupid, or at

906
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 1: least I'm not that poor, or at least I'm not

907
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: that desperate or whatever. It's it's it's it's weaponizing this

908
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: impulse in human beings that is very nasty. Agreed. I mean,

909
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: think about too. I don't want to be a stand

910
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: and deliver character going these kids, but you think about it.

911
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 1: Reality television can make this profound impact on the mind

912
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: of younger viewers especially. Are we, for instance, teaching human

913
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: beings to dehumanize other folks just because you see them

914
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: on a screen. Are we teaching audiences to prize competition

915
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: over collaboration, to value image and appearance over merit and ability.

916
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: Are we, as is so often alleged, dumbing down our species.

917
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: Because I can guarantee you a lot of I don't

918
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,479
Speaker 1: know about you guys, but a lot of my friends

919
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: who don't live in the US immediately think of the

920
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: worst of reality television when they think of the average

921
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: US resident. Yeah, I just on that on that competition angle.

922
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: The only the only extra thing I would put in

923
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: there is that some British competition shows such as The

924
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: Great British Baking Show, do you actually love foster the

925
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: collaborative effort thing, kindness, gentleness, helping your fellow human beings.

926
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: I love it. Great British bake Off Show is the

927
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: Baking Show is the best? Yeah, And that one small

928
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: thing makes it a completely different experience, and the takeaway,

929
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: the emotional takeaway from the show is massively varied from

930
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: something you'd get where you know it's one one takes all,

931
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: and and just because it's one takes all, we all

932
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: have to be at each other's backs with knives and

933
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: there's still a winner. The Great British Baking Show has

934
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: a winner. But at the end, all of the other

935
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: competitors come back and they have a picnic on the

936
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: heath you know where the tent was was pitched where

937
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: they do the tent. You know that that's what the

938
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: whole thing takes place inside this massive tent and everyone

939
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: says how much they love that person, how much they're

940
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: so happy for them and they deserve it, and you know,

941
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: I wish it would have been me, but if it

942
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be me, I'm glad it was whomever. There's

943
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: this general, genuine exactly yeah, there's this genuine um sense

944
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: of of love in that show. And I'm sorry I'm

945
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: gushing about great because it's it's coming back. By the way,

946
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: there's a new season I think starting this Friday or today,

947
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: which we record this this episode. This whole thing has

948
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: been a plug for the Great British Making Show. So uh,

949
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, I really appreciate bringing up that point, Matt,

950
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: because there's there's another example that's also in the world

951
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: of reality TV cooking that I love to point to

952
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: when people ask about the power of producers, and that is,

953
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: watch watch Gordon Ramsey in a US produced cooking show,

954
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: watch his behavior, watch the character he portrays, and then

955
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: watch him on a British show where he's much much

956
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: less abrasive unless it's Kitchen Nightmares, which was a British

957
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: show to start, and he is yelling at these people,

958
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: but they all deserve it because they're detestable people. And

959
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: the kitchen Kitchen Nightmares, I don't know if there's British

960
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: in US versions, think there is, but there is the

961
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: British one. He he is helping people. It seemed like

962
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: he still shames them to make them realize the air

963
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: of their ways. But I'm telling you the character that

964
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 1: he plays is different, vastly different. I tell you you

965
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: very well. Maybe right, but I do remember having BBC

966
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: America back when I had cable back in the day

967
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: I got obsessed with kitchen nightmares, and it was definitely

968
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: the British version, and he he maybe it wasn't quite

969
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: as over the top of a caricature of himself, but

970
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: he was still very no nonsense and doesn't take any

971
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: crap and and would put people in their places very

972
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah. My argument is that that becomes radicalized

973
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: or accelerated exacerbated in the US productions. But but I

974
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: think you know what we're skirting around here is uh,

975
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: the hill that I've chosen to die on, which is

976
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: the original Iron Chef, is awesome. I don't care if

977
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: it's fake. Its hands down, you are correct sir. Can

978
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: we talk about the fact that the guy that plays

979
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: the chairman in the American Iron Chef was in the

980
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: Double Dragon movie. I swear to god, I didn't know

981
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: that he claims to be the descendant of the original chairman.

982
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know any of that was isn't that the

983
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: wasn't that the Dan Show? That Dan Harmon Show? Maybe

984
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: maybe so? Yeah, but I had no idea. I was fooled.

985
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: There's uh an honorable mention to the very brief original

986
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: US reboot, which had William Shatner as the chairman uh

987
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: and added Iron Chef America. I've got to watch that anyway,

988
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: if you're bored on YouTube, check it out. Telling Benson

989
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: to uh, So, let's think about this idea of the competition.

990
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: There's stuff to unpack here. So reality television promotes this

991
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: belief that competition is the key to success, and in

992
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: doing it so it's it's kind of pre programming some

993
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: assumptions of capitalist economy. I'm not saying that that stuff

994
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: is inherently evil, but I'm saying subliminally seeding people that

995
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: incepting them, especially when they're at a young age, is

996
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: maybe not the most uh well, certainly not the most

997
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: ethical thing, right. Uh. And whether we're talking about it's

998
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: a survivor winning millions of dollars or someone on who

999
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: wants to marry a multimillionaire or whatever getting a husband.

1000
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 1: These TV shows reinforced the idea that your life as

1001
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: well is only a competition. Like you said, Matt, people

1002
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: can only succeed by stabbing one another in the back.

1003
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: And look, we have you know, we we have a

1004
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: all worked in a corporate structure before. We know that.

1005
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: We know that to a degree rewards betrayal and it

1006
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: rewards people being horrible people. Uh, but that doesn't mean

1007
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: there's not an alternative. So I think the biggest thing

1008
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: and the most damaging thing for a lot of children

1009
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: watching is this implicit argument that an image is more

1010
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: important than skill. Right that you don't like, you don't

1011
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: have to bother uh doing the work. You don't have

1012
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: to bother practice, you don't have to bother getting expertise.

1013
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: You just need someone else to take care of that backstage,

1014
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: and then you can reap the rewards. That's why a

1015
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,919
Speaker 1: contestant with like a cool backstory or quote unquote personality,

1016
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: they do or say controversial stuff, they'll often win at

1017
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: least a certain level of a competition over someone who

1018
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: might be like a better singer, But they're just they're

1019
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: they're just like you know, regular Jane or John uh

1020
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: last name, and they have a beautiful voice, but they

1021
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: don't have they don't have that that sizzle. They don't

1022
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 1: have something for the audience to aspire toward or look

1023
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: down upon. They're too normal. And this I think that's

1024
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: one of the biggest dangers of reality TV because calling

1025
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: it that, like, think about how powerful the language is.

1026
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: Calling this reality TV does not just mislead viewers to

1027
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: assume what they're seeing is real. It also pulls a

1028
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: bait and switch, and a brilliant evil bait and switch.

1029
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: Calling this stuff suggest reality suggests that we, as the creators,

1030
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: are showing you society. What's that old argument, we're holding

1031
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: up a mirror, We're just we're replicating what's happening now.

1032
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: But are they really are they showing us a real

1033
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: society or they showing you what people in power want

1034
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: you to think society should be? Like, are they telling

1035
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: you how they are comfortable with society working compete, don't

1036
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: collaborate well? Or not only that, but it's also putting

1037
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: forth all of these very surfacing commercial kind of ideals

1038
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: and these aspirational in terms of like I want to

1039
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: have that million dollar home. I want to have these products.

1040
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: I want to live this lifestyle. And it's something that

1041
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: forces people to maybe spend money on Gucci belt bags

1042
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: they can't really afford because they want to look like

1043
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: a Kardashian. You know it is it is in the

1044
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: best interest of the economy and of those in power

1045
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: making lots of money for these shows to promote those

1046
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: kind of ideals and not this the ones that the

1047
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: British shows promote about helping your neighbor and collaborating and

1048
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: working together to make society better for everyone, because there

1049
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 1: are people with a vested interests in society not being

1050
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: better for everyone. Compete, don't collaborate, appear to be like

1051
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: the way you look is more important than who you are,

1052
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: and people who have talent are irrelevant unless they look

1053
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: good doing it. This is this is very dangerous stuff. Well,

1054
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: and that devetails right into two things I just want

1055
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: to talk about. We're talking about this being a cultural danger.

1056
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: I think this is more of a personal danger because,

1057
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: and this is just my opinion, I think reality television

1058
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: normalized the concept of needing a camera for mundane things

1059
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: to be recorded, which then went directly into social media,

1060
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: which then created within ourselves, each of us, the belief

1061
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: that it is worth taking a picture of the food

1062
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: you're about to take and then sharing it with everyone,

1063
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: and and placing your hopes on the possibility that somebody

1064
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: else might tell you that that was a great thing. Well,

1065
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: social media just made us all reality stars, made in

1066
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: our own minds, in our own minds math, you know

1067
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, that was my big end review.

1068
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're on the same page. That's that's what happened. No, No,

1069
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: you're right, that's the big um God, I know, I

1070
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: would hate to feel like we're doing anything other than

1071
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: collaborating like this is. That's that's the big point, you know,

1072
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: because reality TV would have began Begaan when cameras were

1073
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: more expensive, right, and the average person probably wouldn't afford

1074
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to afford a camera that could film

1075
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: moving pictures. And and now everyone is is told you

1076
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 1: should be a reality TV star, like you should be

1077
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: quote unquote on camera or on air all the time.

1078
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: This goes into the social dilemma. The stuff that documentary explores,

1079
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: the dopamine rush, the new neurochemistry at play. But you know,

1080
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: very soon, I mean, we're we're already past the point

1081
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: right of no return. Very soon. It is going to

1082
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: be uncommon for someone growing up in the age of

1083
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: information flood and a big what is media to not

1084
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: have some kind of nearly seven data stream information about them.

1085
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: And then it will become recursive, increasingly, the concept of

1086
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: perception and creation and what is or is not the

1087
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,799
Speaker 1: real uh, It becomes an argument, It becomes a metaphor

1088
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 1: of two mirrors facing each other with nothing between them,

1089
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: reflecting only themselves into infinity. And that's I don't know

1090
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: about you. That's not a world I want to live in. No, no,

1091
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: thank you, no thank you. That's infinite black mirror. And

1092
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: that sounds awful to say. It's the same as the

1093
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: echo chamber effect we talked about on a recent news

1094
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: episode when we're talking about Facebook and polarization of people's opinions,

1095
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: because we're all just looking at ourselves. We're not looking

1096
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: at others, we're not listening to other perspectives. Were so

1097
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: self centered, both ideologically and aesthetically, that we just who

1098
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: cares what anyone else? I mean, but we do look

1099
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: at others, but we only look at it through the

1100
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: mirror and the lens of ourselves, and why am I

1101
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 1: not that pretty? Why am I not that um, you know,

1102
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: rich or whatever. We're not thinking about those people as people.

1103
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: They just represent something that we want for ourselves. Well,

1104
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: I think in the end it's it's an insidious thing.

1105
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's I I personally don't think

1106
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: it's like they some specific they that wants us to

1107
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: be this way. Besides just overall consumerism and and large, um,

1108
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 1: maybe it is just capitalism with a giant see that

1109
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 1: anyone who benefits from selling goods and services, um, and

1110
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, massive global economies. Maybe it's just the global

1111
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: economy that we could blame for it. Where where they

1112
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: need they need us to be thinking about things and

1113
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: stuff that we can buy and when we're sharing all

1114
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,839
Speaker 1: that stuff. It's no there's no secret that there are ads.

1115
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: If you're scrolling through Instagram or whatever you're using, there's

1116
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: an ad every three or four spaces that you're scrolling past.

1117
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: And that is very I mean, there's a reason for that,

1118
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 1: and it's because you're consuming and consuming, consuming, and there's

1119
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 1: another thing that you can consume, and it's so easy

1120
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: you just click on it. And I think the real

1121
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: danger here it's there's a the common phrase of dumbing

1122
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 1: down society, right that we and that is to an

1123
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: extent correct. But I think the biggest thing is that

1124
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: it's decreasing mindfulness and self awareness and and and the

1125
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: awareness of others. It's kind of what you're hitting on

1126
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 1: their guys. It's just I think that's the danger, and

1127
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: that's the real insidious thing. And a lot of the

1128
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,600
Speaker 1: people that are creating this stuff, the reality television and

1129
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,719
Speaker 1: all these things that come together, they don't even realize

1130
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: that they're working, you know, towards that end goal. They're

1131
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: just as we outlined earlier, they're doing all of these

1132
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 1: they're doing it for all the reasons that we outlined, right. Yeah,

1133
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: it's the it's not look, it's not like it's not

1134
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: as if there is some sort of shadowy couball of

1135
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: people who secretly, through a series of front organizations, own

1136
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: the entirety of media and want everybody to turn into

1137
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 1: an increasingly your person. It's it's instead, it's a matter

1138
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: of how much profit can we make, how quickly can

1139
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: we make it? Consequences be damned, And that's like that's

1140
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: I know, that's maybe a harsh, harsh way to say it,

1141
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: but also we have to be we have to be

1142
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: very clear with this. We're not saying that the people

1143
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 1: who are making reality TV or participating in it are

1144
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: somehow across the board terrible, terrible people. We're also we're

1145
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: also not accusing anybody in the production of reality TV

1146
01:11:55,120 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: of being some super brilliant, evil mastermind and purposefully driving

1147
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: us away from the contemplation of reality off the screen.

1148
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: We're saying, that's what happened. This is again, again, again, again, again,

1149
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: this is Mickey Mouse Sorcerers Apprentice Fantasia. We automated some brooms,

1150
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: the brooms, automated more brooms, and now the house is

1151
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: flooding and there's not an easy way back. That is

1152
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:28,600
Speaker 1: just clear. But but they're also maybe positive impacts of

1153
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:32,799
Speaker 1: reality TV. People really do win millions of dollars, People

1154
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: maybe have really found genuine romantic love, people's lives may

1155
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: have been changed for the better. But I mean, what

1156
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: do you think, Like I I was thinking of positive examples,

1157
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: and I can only they're outweighed by the negatives. I

1158
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: am now aware of what an ice road trucker is Okay,

1159
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was a potential job route for anybody,

1160
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: but now I know it's there. There are also shows

1161
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: like Queer Eye, for example, like that is a very

1162
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 1: important way of I don't know, normalizing a lifestyle in

1163
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: a in a type of people that some people in

1164
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: Middle America never see or some people representation exactly. And

1165
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: I think that's important. And Queer I especially the new

1166
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: season is much more like that great British Baking show

1167
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: style of programming where they're hair to help people. They

1168
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 1: are very it's all about inclusivity and about making people

1169
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: feel good about themselves and empowering people, you know. Um.

1170
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: But again it's also it really is important in its

1171
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: representation of the gay and queer community in places that

1172
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: just don't see that and maybe have a negative idea

1173
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 1: of what that means. And this can kind of normalize

1174
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: that in a very important way. Um. And also it's

1175
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: something that kids grow up seeing and it makes them

1176
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 1: feel if they end up deciding that that's how they

1177
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: feel in terms of their how they identify, it gives

1178
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 1: them something that they've seen since they were little that

1179
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 1: lets them know that they're you know, not alone. No

1180
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: one has to struggle with those kinds of things anymore,

1181
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: the idea of coming out because you have all these

1182
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: stories on on shows like that. So I think that's

1183
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: that's a that's a positive agreed. So a question we

1184
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 1: end on today is, uh, we we've outlined the dangers,

1185
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: the potential, the trends, the history, the present, the past

1186
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: and the future and what we think about it. But

1187
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 1: as always the most important part is to hear what

1188
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: you think about it. Specifically, you what are the positive

1189
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 1: impacts of reality TV? Are they outweighed by the negative?

1190
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: What do you what do you feel when you are

1191
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: watching these what reactions are inspired in your mind? What

1192
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 1: do you think the future of reality television will be? Uh?

1193
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: Speaking for myself here, I I'd love to hear your take.

1194
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: I I also want to know if we're going to

1195
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: live in a dystopian world where having a twenty four

1196
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: seven and stream somehow curated of your life is as

1197
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: important as having a social Security number or something like.

1198
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: I think we're already curating our lives through social media

1199
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: right in one degree or another. We're all becoming a brand.

1200
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 1: So tell us how far you think it'll go. You

1201
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, We're you can

1202
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: find us on our social media sites, right, uh, we

1203
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: recommend here's where it gets crazy. If you're still on Facebook,

1204
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: you can see our favorite part of the show, our

1205
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: fellow listeners. You can also find us if you wish

1206
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 1: as individuals. Yeah, I'm on Instagram at how Now, Noel Brown,

1207
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: I am met Frederick Underscore. You can find me at

1208
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,640
Speaker 1: Ben Bulling HSW on Twitter. You can also find me

1209
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:52,599
Speaker 1: at Ben Bulling on Instagram. And if you think social

1210
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: media is not your like cup of hammers or your

1211
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 1: bag of badgers, I don't know what a cop It

1212
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: defends the size of the cup. This is the handle,

1213
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: It's really the handle. And we have a way for

1214
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: you to contact us via telephone. That's right. Our number

1215
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: is one eight three three std w y t K.

1216
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: Leave a message, talk to us anything you want to say,

1217
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: all your thoughts on this episode or anything else. Just

1218
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 1: to put it on that line there. You get three

1219
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: minutes and let us know if you want to be

1220
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: on air or not. You want us to use your name,

1221
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: little things like that. That's helpful for us. Otherwise we

1222
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 1: just say anonymous person called something just flooded back to

1223
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: my memory when when I heard you say that I

1224
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: had a dream last night that we were all in

1225
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: the same room together recording an episode for the first time,

1226
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: and it was very important that we said that phone

1227
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 1: number together for the first time, and we talked about

1228
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: how cathartic that was gonna be. Um, it's it's a

1229
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: spell that we will cast again someday soon, Creed. And

1230
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: if you don't want to do any of that stuff,

1231
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: and you want to get in touch with us the

1232
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: old fashioned way, why not just send us a good

1233
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: old email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com.

1234
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1235
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1236
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,839
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1237
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.