Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
Speaker 1: episode was.
Speaker 2: Produced by the team at Pandora Ladies and Gentlemen. This
Speaker 2: QLs classic we're about to present is one of my
Speaker 2: personal favorites.
Speaker 1: That's writing my personal favorites. You know.
Speaker 2: I always say, if you want to know about your
Speaker 2: favorite artists, you kind of got to get in with
Speaker 2: their circle. Well, this Great Film Games episode is an
Speaker 2: amazing example. His Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, and Quincy Jones
Speaker 2: stories are gold, solid gold. This is one of my
Speaker 2: top ten of all time QLs episodes. It's funny, informative,
Speaker 2: dramatic and amazing. Here it is the Great Filling Games
Speaker 2: QLs classic Part one.
Speaker 1: All right, here we go Hit It one two three, sub.
Speaker 3: Premo, sub Bramo, Subprema Sun Sun, Subprema Role Call Son
Speaker 3: Son Supremo, Role called Supreme, So Supremeo.
Speaker 4: Roll Games is the man. Yeah, HiT's on the shelf. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but on Michaels, don't stop to getting up? Yeah, did
Speaker 4: that bridge is right itself?
Speaker 5: Supreme Sun, Supreme Roll Call Suprema Son Sun Supremo Roll Called.
Speaker 1: My name is Fante. Yeah, and I'm a winner. Yeah.
Speaker 1: With filling gangs. Yeah, now let it simmer.
Speaker 5: Supre Supremo roll call Supremo, Supremo roll call.
Speaker 1: My name is Sugar. Yeah, I got the sugars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm having significant pains.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm making significant games.
Speaker 5: Supremo roll call, Supreme Son Son Supremo.
Speaker 1: Roll call Sunshine Yeah moonlight.
Speaker 5: Yeah good Yeah, blame it on Supreme Son Son Supreme
Speaker 5: Suprema Son Son Supremo roll like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: I can't help it. Yeah, Greg, Yeah, the reason you
Speaker 6: felt it?
Speaker 5: Call Supreme Son said Rome Suprema.
Speaker 1: Why you're around?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 1: Called my name is Greg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with a mir Yeah, but I can't believe,
Speaker 2: Yeah that he's right here.
Speaker 5: Supprema Son some Supremo role came Subprema Son Son Supremo
Speaker 5: role called Suprema Son Son Supremo.
Speaker 1: Roll called Suprema something some Supreme roll call. Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: I am right here. Wow, what's up? Y'all? Welcome to
Speaker 1: another episode of Quest Love.
Speaker 4: I mean, we are live at United Recording Studios, the
Speaker 4: legendary United Recording Studios. I believe that this is where
Speaker 4: Frank Sinatra and many a.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this Man's World recorded here too.
Speaker 2: The other room here here yes, yes, we're in the legendary,
Speaker 2: legendary United Recording sten.
Speaker 4: I'm just let the QLs listeners know that our guest
Speaker 4: today always always accuses me of putting my nerdom for
Speaker 4: useless music trivia information ahead of our friendship. Absolutely, so
Speaker 4: I will start off before I even start the the
Speaker 4: the introductions, I will just start with Greg filling games.
Speaker 1: How are you? Then?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just fine, And it's so good to
Speaker 2: see you at the beginning of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's great to see too, all right, So, ladies
Speaker 4: and gentlemen, welcome to the quest Siphony.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is one.
Speaker 4: Of the heaviest heavyweights of musicians and producers and arrangers.
Speaker 4: This is the man that you call when you want
Speaker 4: the special sauce or as Marlon Jackson said, now it's soup.
Speaker 4: I've never heard that served my life, but he said,
Speaker 4: we got we got.
Speaker 1: Filling Games involved. Yeah, now it's soup. Wow, he said that. Yes,
Speaker 1: he said that.
Speaker 2: He says a lot of wacky things.
Speaker 1: Well, I kind of understood what he meant. And you know,
Speaker 1: your your your presence on you know when you read
Speaker 1: some of.
Speaker 4: Our our favorite records and and and productions of of
Speaker 4: the last forty years. Your name is always involved on
Speaker 4: some of the most life changing albums that we've experienced,
Speaker 4: and we want to welcome Greg filling Games to of course,
Speaker 4: you know why I love you.
Speaker 2: Mayor because you're you're such an intense nerd about this
Speaker 2: curator of this, but you're you're keeping the history alive.
Speaker 1: But you're doing it in the creepiest way possible.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no no, no, seriously, all
Speaker 2: jokes aside, you're doing it in in the absolute best
Speaker 2: way possible. You're you're making it fun. You're using your
Speaker 2: platform from your celebrity to do this. And I for one,
Speaker 2: really appreciate because I don't get out very often these
Speaker 2: days because I'm older now and I have twin boys
Speaker 2: who are almost three they'll be three. That's that's a
Speaker 2: whole and my twelve year old daughter. But but you know,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm older now, and you know, it's it's a
Speaker 2: new day and it's a new world out there, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'm just trying to stay with it.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate.
Speaker 4: But the thing is is that you've you've made some
Speaker 4: of the best graffiti that will never ever be replaced
Speaker 4: no matter what. And yeah, and even if people don't know,
Speaker 4: like it's it's there, like it's no racing the history.
Speaker 2: Well it's I've been very, very blessed in that way.
Speaker 2: And it's true. I've always said, you know, my whole career,
Speaker 2: those that know no and those that don't don't, And
Speaker 2: it's fine with me. And actually I kind of preferred
Speaker 2: that way because I love. This happens to me all
Speaker 2: the time. You know, I'll be talking to someone who
Speaker 2: has no clue of who I am, right, and they
Speaker 2: so you play, you play, you're you're a musician.
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, oh what do you play? Keyboards? Oh?
Speaker 1: You in the band?
Speaker 2: I said, well, I've been in a couple of bands,
Speaker 2: but you know, and I mean, I just I loved it.
Speaker 2: And I have this I have this thing playing in
Speaker 2: my head. Like I was at this incredible museum the
Speaker 2: other day called another cup museum. It's over in Silmar,
Speaker 2: and the curator of all these incredible musical instruments actually
Speaker 2: a mirror. You should see it because it's unbelievable and
Speaker 2: and he one of the things on display was was
Speaker 2: an actual gramophone. And I mentioned to the guy, I said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, you can explain to the to the to
Speaker 2: the tourists there that gramophone is you know where where
Speaker 2: the term Grammy came from? You know, the Grammy Awards,
Speaker 2: you know is Yeah, you're absolutely right, he says, you
Speaker 2: ever been to the Grammys?
Speaker 1: It's really fun.
Speaker 2: And so I have this thing when I get asked
Speaker 2: a question like that, this this this vision runs through
Speaker 2: my mind of like, you know, different times that I've
Speaker 2: mded the Grammys, like you know, like for the segment
Speaker 2: or the segment, and so these things go through my
Speaker 2: head before I answer the question, going yes, I've been
Speaker 2: there a few times, but I never explained that. But
Speaker 2: I just go, yeah, I've been a few times, and
Speaker 2: it's hysterical.
Speaker 4: You acknowledge it because I'm just trying to throw off
Speaker 4: the set, like yeah, hear that a lot.
Speaker 1: But now well sometimes I do that too, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's it's always fun engaging in those conversations and
Speaker 2: still leaving the people not having a clue ifore I am.
Speaker 1: I love that. No, but you never been like yo,
Speaker 1: you're that intro and we are the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, no, okay, no, so something are
Speaker 2: better left?
Speaker 4: Actually you're you're my favorite type of person to interview
Speaker 4: because often you said that the other night. But I'm
Speaker 4: gonna say what's weird is that often when people are
Speaker 4: in the eye of the storm or inside the tornado,
Speaker 4: they really can't give you a good perspective. And I'm
Speaker 4: saying that he has great stories. But for me, in
Speaker 4: talking to engineers is way better than talking.
Speaker 1: To like the guy. Yeah, like I'd rather talk to Susan.
Speaker 4: Rogers about Prince's work habits than Prince himself.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's okay, right, because you'll get that, Yeah, you'll get
Speaker 2: a different times exactly. And I feel as though you're
Speaker 2: probably the best eyewitness to some crazy historic shit. I
Speaker 2: mean just between songs in the Key of Life and
Speaker 2: Thriller and I mean the list stop right there, like
Speaker 2: the average person's whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you that. So where you originally from Detroit?
Speaker 1: You're from the D.
Speaker 2: I'm from the D east side or west side. Well,
Speaker 2: it started in Highland, like you know, listen.
Speaker 1: Some of you know some of my my key records
Speaker 1: were created in Detroit as well.
Speaker 4: I'm a lover of Detroit, Okay, but I know that
Speaker 4: people from the West Side sometimes front and tell me
Speaker 4: east side for some credibility, right, so I wanted to
Speaker 4: know where you east side or west?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I don't need credit.
Speaker 1: See I already know your west side because you didn't
Speaker 1: even say what up though.
Speaker 2: To No, No, Actually I started in Highland Park if
Speaker 2: you know that, which virtually doesn't exist anymore. And then
Speaker 2: I moved to the northwest side by eight mile. Okay,
Speaker 2: all right, I see, So you're you're, you're your your
Speaker 2: credigenous are still there?
Speaker 4: You're in there side. Note when you read the purple
Speaker 4: ring uh liner notes, Prince actually gives.
Speaker 6: A what up?
Speaker 4: Though, Oh yeah, really he gives what up to Billy
Speaker 4: Sparks from Detroit from Detroit, So.
Speaker 2: Are you as far as your your your era or
Speaker 2: your your period of growing up. We've also interviewed Ray
Speaker 2: Parker Jr. On the show, So lord, how did how
Speaker 2: did that go?
Speaker 1: Amazing? How did you manage to leave? Because we didn't
Speaker 1: want to? No.
Speaker 2: One loves talking about themselves more than.
Speaker 1: I love Ray.
Speaker 2: But he knows, he knows what it's like. You know,
Speaker 2: you sit him down and you want to hear more
Speaker 2: about me. Great, later that same week, you want to
Speaker 2: hear more he makes it entertaining, but he basically said
Speaker 2: that for or from Stevie's Music of My Mind period
Speaker 2: up until fulfilling this first finale, he basically wanted, you know.
Speaker 1: All Detroit Cats and his crew as his band.
Speaker 2: And I didn't know if that was just a preference
Speaker 2: of the something water in Detroit or he just wanted
Speaker 2: to make sure that all the homeboys on the block
Speaker 2: got gigs or that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But you're incigdnifically younger, though, So how you come to
Speaker 1: his attention?
Speaker 2: I don't Oh really, you don't know the story. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: settle back and I'll tell you the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what we.
Speaker 2: Want fire hats with well, Uncle Greg, but Uncle Greg, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: hello kids, let me tell you about So this is
Speaker 2: what happened. It's a year after I graduated. I'm in Detroit.
Speaker 2: I graduated high school, which was cast Tech in nineteen
Speaker 2: and seventy four, and I was very excited and very
Speaker 2: much looking forward to going to college because you know.
Speaker 1: That's just what you did.
Speaker 2: And I, you know, it was like straight out of
Speaker 2: the Charlie Brown comics. I got my little Joe cool
Speaker 2: briefcase and I was like, I'm going to college. I
Speaker 2: went to Wayne State, and I gradually just started sucking
Speaker 2: at everything, even the even the subjects I liked, Like
Speaker 2: I really liked psychology sucking.
Speaker 1: Wait, you were there for music.
Speaker 2: It was a Liberal arts. I took a Liberal Arts
Speaker 2: because I was lazy and I didn't want to, you know, anything.
Speaker 2: So I took a liberal arts course and one of
Speaker 2: the courses was psychology. And I was really into it.
Speaker 2: But I sucked. I just could not get it together,
Speaker 2: you know. And so I remember telling my mom that,
Speaker 2: you know, college just wasn't working out, and she says, well,
Speaker 2: you know, just give it another chance and and see
Speaker 2: what happens. And I was gaining a lot of notoriety
Speaker 2: in Detroit from playing in a couple of different bands
Speaker 2: fairly regularly and playing around town. And I absolutely idolized
Speaker 2: Steve Steve, you know, the whole I had posters of
Speaker 2: him in my bedroom all and I really internalized, I
Speaker 2: really absorbed his music. I was to his music what
Speaker 2: you are to music in general. I mean I just
Speaker 2: nerd it out, but not in a cerebral way like you,
Speaker 2: more of an organic, spiritual musical way, you know. And
Speaker 2: I mean I really connected with with his approach musically
Speaker 2: and vocally, even though I was really shy about singing.
Speaker 2: I would sing with him in the shower or whatever,
Speaker 2: you know. And you know, I was just mesmerized by
Speaker 2: by his covers of other things, his arrangement. I mean,
Speaker 2: how do you go from v in my way?
Speaker 1: Blame want to uh? You know, we can't work it out.
Speaker 1: We don't work it out. I mean, who does that?
Speaker 2: And not to not to mention the who does that
Speaker 2: on a clavinet? So I was mesmerized, right. I remember
Speaker 2: telling friends of mine in high school that I would
Speaker 2: eventually play with Stevie wonder I don't know why I
Speaker 2: did that. I don't know where that came from. Well,
Speaker 2: actually I do it came from the Lord, because he
Speaker 2: put that dream in me and I and I remember
Speaker 2: just spewing it out, like telling people I was gonna
Speaker 2: play with.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened.
Speaker 2: A dear, dear, dear friend of mine who's a drummer
Speaker 2: was asked to audition for Steve in New York by
Speaker 2: a former band member by a former Wonderland band member.
Speaker 2: He got to my friend and asked and asked him
Speaker 2: if he'd be interested in auditioning for Stevie in New York,
Speaker 2: So the obvious answer was yes. The night before he left,
Speaker 2: the night before my friend left, I went to see
Speaker 2: him because I was just so thrilled for him, and
Speaker 2: you know, he's packing, and you know, we're talking and
Speaker 2: we're all excited and everything. But he insisted that I
Speaker 2: play some things on a cassette and he would give
Speaker 2: that cassette to Steve. This is the kind of friend
Speaker 2: he was, so he insisted I do this. So I
Speaker 2: played some things, but I played I remember one of
Speaker 2: the things I played was you are the Sunshine of
Speaker 2: My Life, but I played it the same way he
Speaker 2: did on the record, to kind of let him know
Speaker 2: I understand, spoke to how you're right, how he thinks.
Speaker 1: And I played some other things, including sun.
Speaker 2: Goddess, I remember playing it, and I played like maybe
Speaker 2: one or two other things, and then he my friend
Speaker 2: took the cassette and flew to New York the next day,
Speaker 2: and it seemed like time stopped. I don't know how
Speaker 2: long he was there, but I remember, uh, one day,
Speaker 2: maybe two three days later, my friend called me early
Speaker 2: in the morning and said.
Speaker 1: Stevie wonderwats to see you in New York today? Wow?
Speaker 2: Exactly. So I'm running around the house screaming like a banshie.
Speaker 2: My mom My mom is like, you know, she's on
Speaker 2: her way to work. You know, she was working at
Speaker 2: a hospital. I said, director of nurses, And she said, but.
Speaker 1: What's the matter with you? What did you do it?
Speaker 2: So I so She's like, well, just bring clean underwear,
Speaker 2: no matter what, no matter how bad of an accident
Speaker 2: you get. If you die, the first thing your mother's
Speaker 2: gonna ask was his under the work or then he stands.
Speaker 2: That's all they want to know. So now, but I'm
Speaker 2: asked to go to New York that day, but I'm
Speaker 2: also asked to stop by Stevie's house to pick up
Speaker 2: one of his brothers. So now I'm sitting inside Stevie
Speaker 2: Wonders and I knew where he lived. There were many
Speaker 2: of us that knew where he lived. But now I'm
Speaker 2: sitting inside the house.
Speaker 1: Going, Okay, well I'm just here sitting inside Stevie Wonder's house.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm just waiting for his brother, one of
Speaker 2: his brothers to come down and we're gonna go to
Speaker 2: the airport, all right, let me just absorb this right now.
Speaker 2: So Timothy comes down, we go to the airport. Now
Speaker 2: there are a few backstories.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The first backstory is, remember I was telling you how
Speaker 2: I was sucking in college and Mom said to give
Speaker 2: it one more try, and I remember saying to myself,
Speaker 2: all right, look, I'm gonna try this one more time,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to.
Speaker 1: If nothing.
Speaker 2: Earth shattering happens, I'll register for the spring quarter on
Speaker 2: the last data register.
Speaker 1: Okay, The day I was.
Speaker 2: Leaving for the airport to meet Stevie in New York
Speaker 2: was the final data register for the state. Look at God,
Speaker 2: And I remember being on you know, going to the
Speaker 2: metro report and it started snowing, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: just like and it was April first, on top of
Speaker 2: all that, so flat of New York. Get settled at
Speaker 2: the hotel, going to the studio. I'm sitting on pins
Speaker 2: and needles because I realized I'm about to meet my
Speaker 2: idol that i'd only seen twice in concert before, and
Speaker 2: I'm getting ready to meet this guy like face to face,
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting I'm really trying to cool. The engineer
Speaker 2: is just like, you know, we're making small talk but
Speaker 2: I'm just your hand sweating. Everything is just I'm I'm
Speaker 2: really just is this at the record play? This was
Speaker 2: at the Hit Factory, the original one okay with the
Speaker 2: one elevator and the.
Speaker 1: Street Mariah carry boysmen in the elevator there.
Speaker 2: You go and also known as the Greg Filling Gangs
Speaker 2: elevator because I have a story about that, that particular elevator.
Speaker 2: Yeah I do. It'll crack you up. But anyway, so
Speaker 2: I'm waiting on Pensilan. Finally elevated door opens, and you know,
Speaker 2: because you're you're in the studio and there's a monitor
Speaker 2: that's there's a camera this pointing at the elevator to
Speaker 2: see who goes in and out. Elevator door finally opens,
Speaker 2: in out he comes he.
Speaker 1: You know thing.
Speaker 2: His sister Rene is towing him and he just he
Speaker 2: comes in.
Speaker 1: And I go, oh my god, because you know, that's
Speaker 1: what you do. Yeah, that is what you do.
Speaker 2: You don't say, but this is what's going on. So
Speaker 2: you know, and he's coming in and so they say
Speaker 2: Steve Gregs here and so he how you doing? And
Speaker 2: that handshake, that single handshake was a thing that changed
Speaker 2: my life. We uh, from that point on, we made
Speaker 2: small talk, and you know, he actually showed me, uh
Speaker 2: an original unreleased song of his, and he wanted to
Speaker 2: see if I could play it. I see, of course,
Speaker 2: Well there's an answer for that mirror, and it was
Speaker 2: called Spring High.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: He ended up cutting it on Ramsey Lewis.
Speaker 2: You're good, You're good, You're good. You over there, you're good. Wow,
Speaker 2: I've seen good. You're one of them.
Speaker 1: So yes, but.
Speaker 2: You know, at some point, you know, early on he
Speaker 2: said it was going to give it to me, but
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not better because I know and love
Speaker 2: Ramsey and it was fantastic. So that's the first song
Speaker 2: I learned. How about that? That was the first one
Speaker 2: I learned, right.
Speaker 1: Come on, you know, I didn't read my credits, but
Speaker 1: I know that song very well. We have the h track, so.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but when you think about it, how about
Speaker 2: that chorus? He goes, right, so there, you know, Uh,
Speaker 2: too bad. I don't have a keyboard anyway, don't say that.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, So that was the first one I learned.
Speaker 2: Now that's the night of April Fools. Next day is
Speaker 2: more of the formal audition.
Speaker 1: H wait, one quick question. Yes, this is nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: This is nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 1: So Songs and Key Life did not come out yet.
Speaker 2: No, he was still working on it, okay, seventy five.
Speaker 2: Next day is more of the formal audition. It's between
Speaker 2: me and an older looking white guy, which I came
Speaker 2: to find out later on much later, years years later,
Speaker 2: that guy was sent to audition by Chick Korea.
Speaker 1: Wow, because Chick.
Speaker 2: Heard about Steve auditioning, and he sent this guy and
Speaker 2: wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. His
Speaker 2: name Mike Garson.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: And the reason why I know this is because it
Speaker 2: was just like maybe a few years ago, this guy
Speaker 2: approached me at the Nam Show and Anaheim and said,
Speaker 2: I know you, but you may not know me. I go, Wise,
Speaker 2: it's because I'm the one that auditioned against you for
Speaker 2: Wonder Love. I go, You've got to be kidding me,
Speaker 2: Mike Garson, And he told me the whole story from
Speaker 2: his side. He told me that Chickory has sent him,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you've got to be kidding. So I
Speaker 2: put his name, uh, you know, my contact list, and
Speaker 2: there's there's a there's a picture of us, uh you know,
Speaker 2: standing side by side.
Speaker 1: But there's another picture of me going like, you're the one, right.
Speaker 2: So so it's between between me and Mike, you know,
Speaker 2: and we're at We're at Bill's rehearsal.
Speaker 1: I remember Bill's.
Speaker 2: You don't know about that, no, okay, it was called
Speaker 2: but okay, fine, Right, So it's a place called Bill's.
Speaker 2: And I met everybody in Wonder Love, including Ali, Raymond Raymond,
Speaker 2: and and and oh my Nissi okay, and Nice was
Speaker 2: very very precocious. She would, you know, run up to
Speaker 2: me from time to time. It pins me on the butt.
Speaker 2: I was going through the process, and from time to
Speaker 2: time different band members would come up to me on
Speaker 2: the side and go, it's okay, you got it. And
Speaker 2: so and I'm still a little nervous. But I don't
Speaker 2: even remember what I did was. I have no idea
Speaker 2: we were playing all day. I have no idea. I
Speaker 2: don't remember anything about it. I just remember going through
Speaker 2: the process and playing with everybody and and kind of
Speaker 2: you know, feeling my way through and this other guy, Mike,
Speaker 2: you know, and that was that. Uh So, after that
Speaker 2: whole day, back in the car with Steve, it's evening time.
Speaker 2: Now we're on our way back to the Hit Factory.
Speaker 2: I'm in the back, Steve's in the front, and he
Speaker 2: turns around at one point goes, so, how does it
Speaker 2: feel to be a member of Wonderlove? So my in
Speaker 2: my head I'm thinking is because now all these things
Speaker 2: are coming back to me out like how I heard
Speaker 2: he was a practical joker, and he never you know,
Speaker 2: all these things right? So I wasn't sure, so I said,
Speaker 2: are you serious? He goes, of course, I'm serious.
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Oh? Really?
Speaker 2: So now I'm trying to think how can I prove this?
Speaker 1: How can I prove that?
Speaker 2: I said, well, would you mind telling my mom? Because
Speaker 2: it's not gonna lie to them? Okay, the instagram is Mom,
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna lie to the mob. So he says sure.
Speaker 2: So we get to the studio, I dial the house
Speaker 2: and give him the phone. The first voice my mom
Speaker 2: hears is Stevie Wonders telling her that he wants to
Speaker 2: have her son in his band and he'll take care
Speaker 2: of him, and he thinks he's very talented, and this
Speaker 2: and this and this and this and this, and they
Speaker 2: talked for a couple of minutes, and then he has
Speaker 2: the phone back to me, and for the next few minutes.
Speaker 1: This is what you hear. So you made it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, like at that moment, did you like your mother's response?
Speaker 6: That was the first time you ever probably got that.
Speaker 2: Well that I well, we were doing that to each other.
Speaker 2: I was just screaming. But the thing is that, you
Speaker 2: know she thought, because she told me later on, she
Speaker 2: thought that it was just going to be a weekend
Speaker 2: fleing and I was gonna, you know, meet him and
Speaker 2: have a little thing and then come back home, back
Speaker 2: and go to school. Well it was a weekend flaying.
Speaker 2: I did meet him, and I did go back home
Speaker 2: to get the rest of my shit.
Speaker 1: She was happy.
Speaker 6: That's a music thing to make you some money.
Speaker 1: You were, Oh, and that's the punchline.
Speaker 2: It was a month before my nineteenth birthday, but it
Speaker 2: was a month before Stevie's twenty fifth.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say that again.
Speaker 2: A month before Stevie's twenty fifth birthday, which means he
Speaker 2: was working on songs in the Key of Life at
Speaker 2: twenty four.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, Yes, it is. That is crazy.
Speaker 2: So when he after he turned twenty five, was when
Speaker 2: that was released twenty five. I was still trying to
Speaker 2: learn how to time my shoelaces. This guy songs in
Speaker 2: the Key of Life. So let that marinate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you put it in perspective because I wait, this
Speaker 4: is something I want to ask you about your your
Speaker 4: Stevie experience. And I have two other backstories. No, no, okay,
Speaker 4: but that SCO asked me for you. Well see now
Speaker 4: I'm asking for another backstory, and.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'd rather you go. Okay, all right, So here's
Speaker 2: the thing. The thing is, my dear friend, the drummer
Speaker 2: did not get the gig.
Speaker 6: I was wondering, okay, who was he?
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately you have to ask in that you know,
Speaker 2: in that grammar, you have to say it was because Ricky,
Speaker 2: Ricky last.
Speaker 1: Ricky.
Speaker 2: You have not experienced friendship until Ricky was a friend
Speaker 2: of yours.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Man, Ricky Lawson was the very definition of friend in
Speaker 2: every aspect. I mean, you know you hear there's there's
Speaker 2: a line that goes, he will give you the shirt
Speaker 2: off your He literally would give you the shirt.
Speaker 1: Off his back. Wow.
Speaker 2: Their story after story, after thousands of stories about how
Speaker 2: he impacted people's lives just quietly, and he was the
Speaker 2: sweetest guy ever ever. And it will never be another
Speaker 2: Ricky Lawson.
Speaker 1: Dennis used to talk about it. You told you told
Speaker 1: this story on Soul Train.
Speaker 4: You're the first cat I knew that didn't even talk
Speaker 4: about your album. It was a tribute to Ricky Lawson.
Speaker 4: I was like, this is the weirdest thing you usually have.
Speaker 4: You got two minutes to sell your product at don
Speaker 4: Yes a new album and this one single, and Donna
Speaker 4: asked you, like, tell us about your beginning. He just said,
Speaker 4: it's all because this man right here, and it was
Speaker 4: like it was almost a tearful moment. I was like, wow,
Speaker 4: Like damn, I gotta treat the roots better.
Speaker 6: Because so can you tell the drummer story then? Because
Speaker 6: Ricky didn't get the gig. But I know she used
Speaker 6: to talk about Ricky all the time.
Speaker 2: Weird well, but you know, and it turned out Dennis Davis.
Speaker 2: But it turned out that Steve was just trying to
Speaker 2: I don't know, intimidat or strike fear into the But
Speaker 2: actually the drummer that was there was Raymond Pounds. Raymond Pounds,
Speaker 2: So that's where I'm at. But Ricky didn't get it
Speaker 2: with Steve. But Roy Airs was hanging around a lot
Speaker 2: at the time, and Roy said, if you don't get
Speaker 2: it with him, you got it with me. So he
Speaker 2: ended up with Roy, and technically.
Speaker 6: Because with Roy and Stevie and but Dennis and Ricky were.
Speaker 2: Like yes, yes, so it was it was a lot
Speaker 2: of ancestual action going on there. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: So technically, even though I just joined Steve's band and
Speaker 2: I was working on songs in the Life, songs in
Speaker 2: the Key of Life, technically the first album that was
Speaker 2: released and I'm on is Everybody Loves the Sunshine. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: that's you as me, not on not on everything. I
Speaker 2: think on two songs, but there's one song that I
Speaker 2: have a solon at the end that it was I'm
Speaker 2: just I was just blazing and I was very young
Speaker 2: and crazy and hungry, and I was just like, you know,
Speaker 2: so uh yeah, that was the first thing that was released.
Speaker 1: That I'm on. What equipment were you using at the
Speaker 1: time and whatever the hell I wanted to what was out?
Speaker 1: I was working with Stevie Wanner. Dude, he had two
Speaker 1: of everything. Well I'm just saying, now, you know, we
Speaker 1: get a chord, we get a you know, no, because no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: First of all, I had several Pristine Roads that's what
Speaker 2: that's what I want to know. Like okay, I mean
Speaker 2: like roads like you cannot believe, like roads, like the
Speaker 2: intro to Superwoman. I mean, I'm like roads, right, and
Speaker 2: uh oh we had the Yamaha stuff, the CS eighty,
Speaker 2: the Our twenty six hundred, the Mini Moons, and of
Speaker 2: course the dream Machine. Tanto no no, no, no, you
Speaker 2: know about the dream Machine. This is glav no no no, no, no,
Speaker 2: way before Sintklaviy. This is what Sintklavier was trying to be.
Speaker 1: Like, is this what's the one black man that little
Speaker 1: automated No, no.
Speaker 2: No, no, this is this is a custom keyboard from Yamaha,
Speaker 2: three tier keyboard, all white and chrome. And the speakers
Speaker 2: are about as tall as I am. And for those
Speaker 2: of you who don't know, that's like five six feet
Speaker 2: n right, no, five seven five eight on a good day.
Speaker 2: But they're they're tall, beautiful speakers. And I have beautiful,
Speaker 2: fond memories of sitting next to Stevie, just the two
Speaker 2: of us, wagging our heads together, playing the parts to Saturn,
Speaker 2: playing the string hearts to Joy inside my DearS, just
Speaker 2: the two of us.
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that's just a couple of things and then
Speaker 1: and there are I believe four of these in the world.
Speaker 2: Of course Steve bones two of them, and they're not
Speaker 2: cheap and they're not even they're not even in production anymore.
Speaker 1: They stopped, you know, years ago.
Speaker 2: But yeah, incredible instrument and so yeah, I mean I had,
Speaker 2: you know, well, my clavanets and all that other kind
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 4: So let me ask if usually in a musician's life,
Speaker 4: I mean, they're just a sponge when you know, if
Speaker 4: they discovered music early from like ten eleven twelve, you
Speaker 4: know they're sponge.
Speaker 1: They're open to anything.
Speaker 4: Usually your first taste of maturity comes when you're like
Speaker 4: fifteen sixteen years old, when you start like putting away
Speaker 4: childish things and you you know, something affects you. Can
Speaker 4: you tell me I've heard I like to hear the
Speaker 4: ounce of people when they first discovered music of my mind?
Speaker 5: Was that?
Speaker 1: Was that? Did that album have an effect on you
Speaker 1: as far as like a huge whoa what is this huge? See?
Speaker 1: Because I love it so much.
Speaker 4: But of course I was born in seventy one, so
Speaker 4: me discovering it in nineteen seventy nine is way different
Speaker 4: than being there in real time listening what was that
Speaker 4: moment like to hear those patches and those.
Speaker 1: Like music like that.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I just it just made me
Speaker 2: realize that he was a visionary when it came to
Speaker 2: creating sounds that.
Speaker 1: That you know, that.
Speaker 2: Accurately described his feelings, you know, and the the amazing
Speaker 2: way he used the new technology of that time to
Speaker 2: essentially orchestrate, because you know when you hear things like uh,
Speaker 2: you know again Superwoman and his use of those high
Speaker 2: sense and everything and and and and how he combined uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the newer instruments with traditional instruments like piano,
Speaker 2: drums and so forth. So uh and of course the songwriting,
Speaker 2: every aspect of it, the songwriting, the vocal approach, the
Speaker 2: level of musicianship, because you know, let's let's remember he
Speaker 2: played everything.
Speaker 1: And uh so that had a huge effect.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was it was a it was
Speaker 2: a gradual progression because I didn't just get into him
Speaker 2: as songs in the key of live cousin. It was like,
Speaker 2: you know, from yeah, it was from that, but then
Speaker 2: you know, just just going along the ride, the journey
Speaker 2: with him, the progression you know, from fingertips to uh,
Speaker 2: you know, from even before no, no, before that, like
Speaker 2: signs to Delivery place, you know, the cover of we
Speaker 2: can work it out, Uh should be dude ot day,
Speaker 2: you know, uh right now, Yeah, I met your match,
Speaker 2: you know, things like that, and then from that, uh,
Speaker 2: solely crossing over into uh, the more mature era, you know,
Speaker 2: starting with Where I'm Coming From, which was of course
Speaker 2: a precursor to to uh line, and and where I'm
Speaker 2: Coming From kind of doesn't get enough credit because Where
Speaker 2: I'm coming from had a couple of gems like I
Speaker 2: never dreamed. Let's not forget that exactly, sugar, and take
Speaker 2: your course in happiness, you know, not science delivery, do yourself,
Speaker 2: educate your mind, you know, so gadget that. Yeah there,
Speaker 2: you know, so all that kind of stuff, and uh
Speaker 2: so going along that journey and then ending up at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the five Great album era, starting with
Speaker 2: songs with Music in My Mind because the reason why
Speaker 2: I call it that is because there were five albums
Speaker 2: that were completely great, where every song was great. There
Speaker 2: are other albums before and after that had great songs
Speaker 2: but not complete. Music in my Mind was a complete
Speaker 2: great album, Intervisions was a complete great album. Talking Book
Speaker 2: was a complete great album feeling This first Finalitey was
Speaker 2: a complete great album, and we won't even discuss songs
Speaker 2: in Key of Life. So that's five right there, that
Speaker 2: five album run by the Way that ended at twenty five. Wow,
Speaker 2: it's reminding you that because he was twenty five when
Speaker 2: songs in the Keep Life was exactly that's the perspective.
Speaker 2: But can I just give you one last backstory about.
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: So I was given another perspective years later by one
Speaker 2: of Steve's former managers who explained from his end how
Speaker 2: the process went down from my audition. So Ricky goes
Speaker 2: to the studio and the auditions and he's told he
Speaker 2: doesn't get the gig. He kind of leaves with his
Speaker 2: tale between his legs, you know, and he's like obviously disheartened,
Speaker 2: and he leaves the studio. He's outside the studio, he
Speaker 2: feels in his pocket and he remembers that my cassettes
Speaker 2: in this that he still has my cassette. He goes
Speaker 2: back to the studio and says to one of the
Speaker 2: managers at the time, Listen, you know I got this friend,
Speaker 2: his name is Greg, and you know I promised him
Speaker 2: that I give this tape to he's a keyboard player,
Speaker 2: and I promise it, I'd give this cassette to Steve
Speaker 2: so he could check him out. Would you mind just
Speaker 2: making sure he gets it? And the guy says sure.
Speaker 2: He puts it on a table with a pile of
Speaker 2: other cassettes. Steve was not there at the time. He
Speaker 2: stepped away. Some time later, he comes back. He sits
Speaker 2: down at the table with the cassettes. He's fishing around.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, he just grabs one at random,
Speaker 2: grabs random, sticks it in press his plays listening. He's
Speaker 2: and then he stops wagging his head because he's got
Speaker 2: like a kind of disconcerted look on his face. And
Speaker 2: he said still, and he goes He takes the cassette
Speaker 2: out and goes, what's to say? So the guy says, Greg,
Speaker 2: of course he butchered my last name, and so Steve
Speaker 2: reportedly said get him.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So because apparently, well I'll I'll forget to that, and
Speaker 2: so he they they they call Ricky back. They see
Speaker 2: a Ricky and he goes.
Speaker 1: Oh, then he changed his mind. Well, well not exactly,
Speaker 1: but but you know your friend, can you call him? Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay, So so I know right, So so that's what.
Speaker 2: But then the reason why Steve reacted the way he did, apparently,
Speaker 2: legend has it.
Speaker 1: Is because he thought it was him.
Speaker 2: Oh, he thought it was him playing and he couldn't
Speaker 2: quite figure it out. Well, I guess I left a
Speaker 2: bit of an impression, which is kind of what I
Speaker 2: wanted to do.
Speaker 1: So that's damn. That is crazy.
Speaker 2: It's bananas. And I actually remember telling Steve that, like
Speaker 2: maybe like a couple of years ago, and he said,
Speaker 2: all right, well that sounds yeah, we'll go with that.
Speaker 4: He didn't, right, So you were just auditioning to be
Speaker 4: in the band, but you wound up on songs in
Speaker 4: the Key of Life four times.
Speaker 1: So okay, being in the eye of the storm? What?
Speaker 4: Because I remember, like now, it doesn't seem like a
Speaker 4: year and a half was all that long to wait
Speaker 4: from seventy four till seventy six.
Speaker 1: Oh, but it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was if you're Berry Gordy exactly right, right.
Speaker 1: So one, what what was taking so long? And why? Well,
Speaker 1: of course I know that, you know, fine wine takes
Speaker 1: it's time.
Speaker 2: But there's fine wine and then there's Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 4: So by the time you're there, do you know that
Speaker 4: it's going to be a double album or two point
Speaker 4: five albums.
Speaker 1: No, I just know it's a lot. Did he know that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was just because for every one song that ended
Speaker 2: up on the record, there's about three or four that didn't.
Speaker 1: So you multiply, you do the maath on that, and
Speaker 1: so how many songs do you think around doing just
Speaker 1: during that period?
Speaker 2: It's endless because you know what, I have.
Speaker 1: A few.
Speaker 2: Cassettes of unreleased stuff. Yeah, it was one, two, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure too, pretty sure, I have to and just
Speaker 2: and that's not even you know, that's barely the typically
Speaker 2: aspert and that's from back then, okay, you know, so
Speaker 2: it's it's added up over the decades. So yeah, he
Speaker 2: had a lot of stuff, and he had he had
Speaker 2: things like, oh, oh, you got to hear this story.
Speaker 1: You gotta hear this. You gotta hear.
Speaker 2: Because it's sort of uh, ties in with your question,
Speaker 2: all kinds of unreleased stuff. And the night before my
Speaker 2: first show with him, which was in DC for a
Speaker 2: little thing called Human Kindness Day, which was on the
Speaker 2: grounds of the Washington Monument, two hundred and fifty thousand people.
Speaker 2: That's my first show. Wo there's an audition for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's the night before and you know, usually, or traditionally,
Speaker 2: Steve would have a massive black bag full.
Speaker 1: Of tapes of guess what.
Speaker 2: So I somewhere found the you know, intestinal fortitude to
Speaker 2: ask him if I could borrow the bag, and do
Speaker 2: you know, he said, yes, what about that I have?
Speaker 2: I'm nineteen years old, I have Stevie barely nineteen. I
Speaker 2: have Stevie Wonders bag of unreleased music in my room
Speaker 2: with a pair of headphones.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? Stay in there for like
Speaker 1: a week?
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm just rifling through stuff. I can't I
Speaker 2: can't believe he said yes.
Speaker 1: To this day.
Speaker 2: And I'm playing stuff and Amir, for the first time,
Speaker 2: I'm hearing the original version of sem on Your Love
Speaker 2: and I cannot tell you. I cannot describe to you
Speaker 2: what it was like, Amir. All I can say was
Speaker 2: that it was an instrumental and all the synthesizers were
Speaker 2: singing what we're singing, Amir. Now you know how it goes,
Speaker 2: you know, do.
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But in addition to the melody, they had these background
Speaker 2: since going doo doo wop doo doo doo up doo
Speaker 2: doop in harmony. I'm telling you, it was otherworldly. I
Speaker 2: never heard anything like it in my life. And I'm
Speaker 2: in They're like, it was like LSD and the best
Speaker 2: way you ever can and I don't do drugs, but
Speaker 2: I'm talking about it was like all of those combined.
Speaker 1: It was just like, oh my god, I can't believe.
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I heard. And I heard all
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff that I I can't even describe, uh,
Speaker 2: the feeling, and and I gave it all back to
Speaker 2: him the next day and I was a changed man.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.
Speaker 2: So none of this stuff has ever come out of
Speaker 2: the outtakes from from songs in them and all that.
Speaker 2: There was another song called living for Your Love, and
Speaker 2: I think he has since released that, but the original
Speaker 2: version of that was the best. And that was done
Speaker 2: on the dream Machine too. And all these weird sounds and.
Speaker 1: What wo.
Speaker 2: They're knowing what I mean, just crazy stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: and original sin when Your Love that was, I mean,
Speaker 2: the version you heard was what seventy five, seventy six,
Speaker 2: seventy five sounds about seventy five man sounds about yeah, God.
Speaker 1: And usually when we get stuff, especially that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Years later, Yeah, it's been water that has been a
Speaker 2: little bit yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: God, you know.
Speaker 2: To just leave it off the record, like yeah not
Speaker 2: yet yeah yeah yeah that one and so the one
Speaker 2: you know about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't hold it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't even compare, doesn't even you think you like that?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 4: So I gotta know why did he part ways with
Speaker 4: the Tanto guys with Bob and Malcolm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob and Malcolm. I don't think it was anything.
Speaker 1: I think it was just there the program.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean they they introduced him to the whole
Speaker 2: world of sense with with Tato, and I think it
Speaker 2: was just time to change.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was anything, you know, negative. I
Speaker 2: don't really know much about this split, but I don't
Speaker 2: think it was anything, you know. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: because of any issues. Well no, no, I don't mean,
Speaker 2: like was it amicable.
Speaker 4: But I was just trying to figure out, if you know,
Speaker 4: for what they were doing with him between seventy one
Speaker 4: and seventy four with you know, synthesizes were the size
Speaker 4: of rooms. He suddenly Yamaha is making these because of
Speaker 4: what I want to know is is the ability to
Speaker 4: play chords with these patches. And what year was it
Speaker 4: that you were able to play more than one note
Speaker 4: at the.
Speaker 1: Well that kicked? Oh, I can't remember the exact year, but.
Speaker 2: It it was kind of going on when I was
Speaker 2: there because of the dream machine and because of the
Speaker 2: cs AD you had polyphony with those instruments. But I
Speaker 2: think as far as the split from Malcolm and Bobby,
Speaker 2: he just he just it just seems to me thinking
Speaker 2: about it, that he wanted a more hands on approach
Speaker 2: and he was able to do he felt he could
Speaker 2: do more on his own with the technology of that time,
Speaker 2: because you know, you got the R twenty six hundred
Speaker 2: now and you know, but that was that was even there,
Speaker 2: that was around even during a before songs didn't keep
Speaker 2: life because that was on you know, it was the
Speaker 2: bass sound for boogiey On. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: you know that it was around. But I just think
Speaker 2: he wanted to take more of a hands on approach
Speaker 2: and just do just create the sounds on his own.
Speaker 1: So what songs are you on as far as the
Speaker 1: actual tracking in right?
Speaker 2: So Saturn, Okay, Intusion, contusion, And the only reason why
Speaker 2: I'm on contusion is because that crazy line that Mike
Speaker 2: Simbela came up with. He couldn't play it, and I said,
Speaker 2: well I can't, so he said, okay, go So in
Speaker 2: the ridge that's me doing doubling. Yeah, that's me. That's
Speaker 2: me doubling Michael on a on a synth. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that's the only reason why I'm on that.
Speaker 5: And then.
Speaker 2: Probably isn't my my favorite? Well, one of my favorites
Speaker 2: for sure? Well, yes, isn't She love laim?
Speaker 5: On that?
Speaker 2: And one of my favorites for sure, joy inside my
Speaker 2: tears string parts of that, so and I played the
Speaker 2: Roads on Isn't She Lovely?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So were those songs all tracked together with a
Speaker 1: group of people?
Speaker 2: No, No, Isn't She Lovely? Was an overdub I I
Speaker 2: definitely remember that. But I also remember meeting the subject
Speaker 2: of that song in a little crib at his brownstone
Speaker 2: in New York, and I remember going up stairs and
Speaker 2: looking down on the crib and going, oh, she's cute.
Speaker 2: But yes, it was a Roads over dub on Isn't
Speaker 2: She Lovely?
Speaker 1: It was kind of like.
Speaker 2: What was overdub On on Confusion as well. Steve and
Speaker 2: I did the string parts and the the orchestral parts
Speaker 2: together on Joy Inside My Tears and Saturn.
Speaker 1: So when the album comes out in seventy six.
Speaker 2: By the way, we we he actually had t shirts
Speaker 2: made up. We're not done yet, We're almost finished. We're
Speaker 2: almost finished yet, So Steve.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are gonna do that for Voodoo. They
Speaker 1: did that. We was taking five years with Voodoo. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I shirts there, you know, and you can still wear
Speaker 1: them today. So I do love that guy. Though.
Speaker 4: When when in seventy six, in September seventy six, when
Speaker 4: this comes out? Yeah, what was I just recently found
Speaker 4: Have you guys ever seen that ePK that's online when
Speaker 4: the press is hearing songs in the Keep Life for
Speaker 4: the first time.
Speaker 1: Have any of you guys seen this?
Speaker 4: No, So when you like google songs in the Key
Speaker 4: of Life ePK and it's like a listening session of
Speaker 4: really of yeah, like fifty key rock critics, even like
Speaker 4: Robert Cristagala was there when he was in like his
Speaker 4: younger days. But they're all listening together and to watch
Speaker 4: them collectively jaw drop, like after they hear Sir Duke
Speaker 4: for the first time, and you know it's it's one
Speaker 4: of the coolest things I've ever seen. But yeah, it's
Speaker 4: on YouTube, but for YouTube to watch people, Well that album.
Speaker 4: You know, like I was in first grade by the
Speaker 4: time it came out, and what was it, September?
Speaker 1: No homework, no home. I've got socks older than you
Speaker 1: the first grade. Yeah, like my homework was you know,
Speaker 1: have mom and dad by this album?
Speaker 4: And you know we all had our copies in in
Speaker 4: school the next day and we're reading the liner notes
Speaker 4: and all this stuff. No, the liner notes alone, like
Speaker 4: changed my life. But what was it just in in
Speaker 4: real time? And to tour behind this album?
Speaker 1: What was it like to.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it wasn't he didn't tour off
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you sure. I'm kind of sure because.
Speaker 4: He was like you guys were in the episode of
Speaker 4: the Grammy Awards where he was in Africa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that wasn't a tour. We went.
Speaker 2: We went to Legos, Nigeria because he wanted to perform
Speaker 2: down there, and it was it turned out to be,
Speaker 2: you know, in time or during the Grammys, and we
Speaker 2: did a remote segment and that's the that's where you
Speaker 2: you you have Andy Williams asking the immortal question.
Speaker 1: Stevie, can you see us? Yea, that was the weirdest
Speaker 1: thing to watch us a seven year old.
Speaker 4: He was like on this telephone but okay, that explains
Speaker 4: why he was dressing all that African garb was fla.
Speaker 2: After the shows, I I think, I think so, I
Speaker 2: don't remember. I don't remember, but I think so I
Speaker 2: have kind of I only have one memory of Legos.
Speaker 2: But anyway, what it is well that that we we
Speaker 2: rolled up and we stayed in this very opulent hotel
Speaker 2: and it was like, you know, gold fixtures in the
Speaker 2: bathrooms and everything. And I remember, I remember my room
Speaker 2: was high up, and I remember looking down on the
Speaker 2: beach and seeing people squatting on the beach and and
Speaker 2: and being in huts. I remember that, but it was
Speaker 2: wild man. I also remember like the auditorium we we
Speaker 2: actually performed that, you know, the crowd was great. They
Speaker 2: were rack us, you know, and and I'm like, can
Speaker 2: we're doing a remote broad broadcast to the Grammys.
Speaker 1: This is crazy?
Speaker 2: Ah, But that's it. So we didn't tour off of
Speaker 2: that album. He didn't really do formal tours, just did
Speaker 2: one offs, like playing Jamaica and having Bob Marley open
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 1: That didn't suck, you know.
Speaker 2: And I remember when we were rehearsing and he told
Speaker 2: us that we were going to Jamaica, Like, I immediately
Speaker 2: went out and got uh, Marley's Marley's album which was, uh,
Speaker 2: what was.
Speaker 1: That hallmark album? What was the name of that? No,
Speaker 1: it had.
Speaker 2: I remember the name of the album, but it had
Speaker 2: you know, lovely.
Speaker 1: And it had looking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look it's it's as you know he said.
Speaker 1: No, catch a fire burning, Natty Dread must be Natty Dredd.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, roots rock run, Okay, Okay, that's music, that's
Speaker 2: roster Man vibration.
Speaker 1: That one.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I remember, yeah, okay, So I remember getting
Speaker 2: that and just playing it over and over again, and
Speaker 2: then like next thing, you know, we'rett Marley's opening up
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 1: Damn. It's crazy. So that no touring though, because he's.
Speaker 2: Steady wonder, it's just different. He's just you know, all
Speaker 2: over the place. No, he's just he was just all
Speaker 2: over the place. He talked for those albums, like those songs,
Speaker 2: and that's so weird.
Speaker 4: I thought he didn't tour behind a Secret Life of Plants,
Speaker 4: but I definitely thought he tour.
Speaker 1: He didn't know, no, no, no, no, we like I said,
Speaker 1: my five days with Secret Life, Yeah no, my My
Speaker 1: My first gig was.
Speaker 2: The Human Kindness Day in DC, and I don't remember
Speaker 2: what what happened consecutively after that, but I know Jamaica,
Speaker 2: you know, legos and things like that. But but not
Speaker 2: a lot of not a lot of action, not a
Speaker 2: lot of action, not anything for more or consistent that
Speaker 2: you would you would you know, classify as a tour.
Speaker 4: But did he want you exclusively his? Because I'm trying
Speaker 4: to figure out exactly when did you ease to the Jacksons.
Speaker 2: Well, we were all on retainer and that was that
Speaker 2: was the other cool thing about being in the band.
Speaker 2: And it's like I just joined, I just turned nineteen,
Speaker 2: and I'm making five hundred dollars a week and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is it, this is it, but this is it
Speaker 2: on retainer like every week?
Speaker 1: And was that? Okay, I'm so glad you said that.
Speaker 1: What for a working musician? Yeah? Was that a good
Speaker 1: living in nineteen seventy five, seventy six that time? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, oh for it was great for me. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: today that's not even an hour.
Speaker 4: Well, but I know that but like your five hundred
Speaker 4: back then today would probably be like, you know, four thousand,
Speaker 4: five hundred a week or something.
Speaker 2: But yeah, something like that, but or at least ten
Speaker 2: times as much as that. But no, it was great,
Speaker 2: and uh so I was with him from seventy five
Speaker 2: till the beginning of seventy nine. January seventy nine, the
Speaker 2: last chat chat with him was in Atlanta. I remember that,
Speaker 2: and then it was it was tough to say goodbye,
Speaker 2: but I realized that I needed to or else I
Speaker 2: was gonna remain stagnant.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be comfortable. Yeah. So you had a goal
Speaker 1: to be a producer or was it just no? I had.
Speaker 2: I had a goal to expand to the to the
Speaker 2: extent that I could because this was based on promises,
Speaker 2: unkept promises of you know, producing an album on Wonderlove.
Speaker 2: Everyone has that story. Yeah, he kept promising us he
Speaker 2: was gonna, uh, you know, do an album, and it
Speaker 2: got to the point where we believed him less and less,
Speaker 2: and then one day he said, all right, look, I'm
Speaker 2: doing this, and this is where we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go We're gonna leave here, We're going out
Speaker 1: of here.
Speaker 2: And we're going to Louisiana. We I don't know how
Speaker 2: he found this place, but there is. I don't even
Speaker 2: know if it still exists now, but there was back
Speaker 2: then a studio called studio in the country. Never more
Speaker 2: was there an appropriate name for a facility, because this
Speaker 2: place was in Boga Usa, Louisiana.
Speaker 1: Thank you, look that up. Google it.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if bol exists anymore, but it
Speaker 2: did then. And it was deep, deep, deep in the country,
Speaker 2: and it was a studio and it was a cool studio.
Speaker 2: It was. It was a it was a proper studio.
Speaker 2: It was how deep in the country and the l
Speaker 2: it was. It was deep, it was, it was it.
Speaker 1: Was in the sticks. But it was great. The people
Speaker 1: were wonderful. It's still okay.
Speaker 2: How about that studio in the country and Bogel, Louisiana.
Speaker 2: We went down there and uh, you know, we hung
Speaker 2: out and I have to tell you about my most
Speaker 2: memorable experience of being there. Because you haven't lived until
Speaker 2: you've been in a car with Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was waiting for the car driving story.
Speaker 2: So you haven't lived until you've been driven. No, So
Speaker 2: here's what happened. So we're feeling frisky. We're in the
Speaker 2: hotel and you know, we're just like, you know, messing around,
Speaker 2: and all sudden I don't remember who else I was with,
Speaker 2: but it's a small group of us, and somebody said, hey, Steve,
Speaker 2: you want to drive? Sure, So we go down go
Speaker 2: to somebody's car in the parking lot. It was it
Speaker 2: was open, you know, there were very few cars in
Speaker 2: a lot. And we all get in the car and
Speaker 2: he gets behind the wheel and it's like, is.
Speaker 1: He having the time of his life?
Speaker 2: He's cracking up, and whoever was sitting next to him
Speaker 2: was like, okay, go this go right, go laft. He's
Speaker 2: like okay, and it's hysterical and we're just dying laughing.
Speaker 2: We're cracking up, and I go, okay, this is something
Speaker 2: to remember. Ship. Yeah, so that was the most memorable
Speaker 2: thing unfortunately that happened.
Speaker 1: We made.
Speaker 2: We made a good amount of music. We all took
Speaker 2: turns trying to be junior Stevie's you know, I I
Speaker 2: came up with a couple of songs that weren't really great,
Speaker 2: but you know whatever. And but then at one point
Speaker 2: he left went to New York and that was the
Speaker 2: beginning of the end, and he started phoning things in
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he just kind of
Speaker 2: left us to fend for ourselves. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: you know what, this isn't really gonna happen. So I
Speaker 2: had to make up my mind and it was a
Speaker 2: tough decision. But there were two times in my life
Speaker 2: when I felt spiritually depleted and it was crucial for
Speaker 2: me to move, and that was the first time.
Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, so what this was so now at the
Speaker 1: beginning of secret Life of Plants or no, well, let's see, no, because.
Speaker 2: I was still in the band when he was working
Speaker 2: on that. Okay, I didn't play, that was all him.
Speaker 4: What was the I mean the general but general, what
Speaker 4: was the general conversation? Because you know, usually with what
Speaker 4: they call the departure record, it's supposed to be seeing
Speaker 4: as yes, this is my artistic left turn and da
Speaker 4: da da da da. But I guess later in life,
Speaker 4: all of us here sort of discovered that the departure
Speaker 4: record is.
Speaker 1: Kind of a uh means to ruin it before you
Speaker 1: get ruined, or it's the self sabbage sabotage move. And
Speaker 1: as what you think Life for Plants was well, I
Speaker 1: mean just.
Speaker 4: Most most departure albums usually happened after your biggest your
Speaker 4: biggest album, and you don't want to express the fear of.
Speaker 1: You having run hour of ideas or that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: So it's sort of like it's safe to do with
Speaker 4: let me do the Yeah, let me do the absolute
Speaker 4: left turn trouble man, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Trouble around the world in the day peers.
Speaker 4: I mean, sometimes it backfires and it becomes it becomes
Speaker 4: even bigger. So, I mean, what was just the general
Speaker 4: movement like, Hey, I'm gonna do an all instrumental album.
Speaker 2: Another world's waiting. No, I don't think it had anything
Speaker 2: to do with that. I think you have to look
Speaker 2: at it like this. I think it had to do
Speaker 2: with wanting to take on the challenge of doing a score.
Speaker 2: This was a score to a movie done by a
Speaker 2: blind guy.
Speaker 1: Let's just let's just know that the movie he was
Speaker 1: done by, the score was the score the score itself.
Speaker 2: Okay, I get a blind guy doing a score for
Speaker 2: a movie.
Speaker 1: Who does that? Who does that? I see so he
Speaker 1: who hires that guy?
Speaker 2: Somebody really crazy or somebody really extra visionary? But no
Speaker 2: he I think he just dug the challenge. M he
Speaker 2: was really into the challenge of doing it, and that
Speaker 2: was the premiere of Semone Your Love. But he really
Speaker 2: got into it. He really got into the challenge and
Speaker 2: wanted to know as much about the movie, you know,
Speaker 2: as many details as he could get, and he just forced.
Speaker 1: His entire being into that. For the record, that's my
Speaker 1: favorite Stevie record.
Speaker 2: And not to be kind really, I mean it's just
Speaker 2: you know, I was eight years old and that was
Speaker 2: that was my Pink Floyd Dark side.
Speaker 1: Of the movement.
Speaker 4: Put the headphones on my eyes and imagine stuff and
Speaker 4: sure it just like I didn't know about oh this,
Speaker 4: I have pop hooks. Like my dad hated it. So
Speaker 4: he's like, here you take it, ha ha. And it
Speaker 4: just spoke to me as as an eight year old.
Speaker 1: So it that's pretty well. You know.
Speaker 4: Actually we're talking to him right now about doing some
Speaker 4: hopefully some some dates like to do it.
Speaker 1: And it's entirety for plants. Yeah, that's okay. Did I
Speaker 1: just let the cat We'll just we won't guide this
Speaker 1: until after four words for you, bro, good luck with that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're in the talking stage. It's we'll be talking.
Speaker 1: The longest dream it's our dreams. So I mean that's
Speaker 1: basically dreams can't come true. But I just good luck
Speaker 1: with that. I'll be calling you. You don't need to
Speaker 1: arms crossed the audience. So, was Destiny your first foray
Speaker 1: into arranging?
Speaker 4: And really, to me, it's producing and like, why, okay,
Speaker 4: we gotta get into the titles of because I only
Speaker 4: saw these credits on jackson Down.
Speaker 1: Like Fingersnap arranger.
Speaker 2: You know that's because they were all dying for credit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it, because they wanted they were so desperate
Speaker 2: to be on their own and they just wanted to
Speaker 2: do Okay, look, I'm the one that set the mic,
Speaker 2: you know. I you know, I'm the one that chose
Speaker 2: the studio whatever.
Speaker 1: The Jackson's have the strangest album credits of all time.
Speaker 1: That stuck with me for life. So talk to me
Speaker 1: about you coming aboard for Destiny.
Speaker 2: I will. But to answer the question, no, it wasn't
Speaker 2: my first for foray into arranging because I was cutting
Speaker 2: my teeth. I was allowed to cut my teeth arranging wise,
Speaker 2: thanks to the partnership of Dick Griffy and Don Cornelius.
Speaker 1: Thank you, WHOA served some time in Griffyville. Yeah, Soul
Speaker 1: Training Records. Yeah. No, don't say don't don't you dare
Speaker 1: say Uptown festivals. Please don't say it. Shalla Mars Discoogarden. No,
Speaker 1: but let me see. Did I do some You did
Speaker 1: the souling Ging album?
Speaker 2: Oh god, I remember that, but I remember doing I
Speaker 2: remember working on different artists. If there's of course, I
Speaker 2: believe it. Of course, uh Dix Dix Uh, I did
Speaker 2: a couple of her albums.
Speaker 1: I did, uh uh.
Speaker 2: There there was another Oh god, it was another band.
Speaker 2: It was like two guys and they had sort of
Speaker 2: like an Indian name, and I can't remember right now,
Speaker 2: but they had all these They had a small stable
Speaker 2: of artists and including the Whispers. And I did a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff and then they let me just do
Speaker 2: they just let me arrange.
Speaker 1: Wait, you know what's weird in your Wikipedia.
Speaker 2: It's just that I know Carrie. No that is so
Speaker 2: I don't know who, and they won't take it away.
Speaker 2: I don't know who to write to make that correction.
Speaker 2: But it's really annoying. It doesn't matter because one of
Speaker 2: the Dixie humming Birds was my grandfather. Okay, and I
Speaker 2: got you know, I had to get embarrassed on National
Speaker 2: TV once he told me like, he's not your grandfather.
Speaker 1: Oops, yeah exactly.
Speaker 5: So you.
Speaker 1: Did some time under Soul Train Records.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I enjoyed it. And I remember working a
Speaker 2: lot with the Whispers, and I remember one of the
Speaker 2: twins saying to me, you know what your problem is? Like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: because you know too much.
Speaker 5: Go out.
Speaker 2: Of backhanded compliment, but you know yeah, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't understand it then, but I sort of get
Speaker 2: it now.
Speaker 1: Did you work on Let's Go all the Way? Yeah? Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: So when you're brought aboard, like what were you there?
Speaker 4: Just recession work or like what what was your title?
Speaker 2: I don't really think I had a title. I wasn't
Speaker 2: like a I wasn't like a staff producer or anything
Speaker 2: like that. I was just brought into play sessions and
Speaker 2: sometimes arrange either horns or rhythm or whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, now I want to get to the Jackson. Okay.
Speaker 2: So dear friend of mine, Bobby Colombia, uh tears right, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: the drummer who became an executive at CBS said.
Speaker 1: You know, you need to do more arranging, and I go, well,
Speaker 1: really seriously no, actually you do.
Speaker 2: And here's who you here here, here's who you're gonna
Speaker 2: do it with. Next thing, you know, I'm in a
Speaker 2: room with the Jackson's. So I met all the brothers
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, now you have to remember the time.
Speaker 2: This was when they finally left the clutches of Motown
Speaker 2: and uh, this was after the Philly thing, you know.
Speaker 2: And so now they're trying to establish themselves as producers.
Speaker 2: But CBS was cautious, so they they brought in Bobby
Speaker 2: Yes to make sure things didn't get too out of hand,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And so were you aware? I mean, was okay, dude?
Speaker 4: I mean you were part of songs in the Keev
Speaker 4: life by then, Like, was the Jackson's or going places
Speaker 4: on your radar by then.
Speaker 5: Or was it?
Speaker 2: Like dude, no, no, no, no, no, no, no you
Speaker 2: I love the Jacksons. I had just as many dreams
Speaker 2: about them, just about as I had of Steve. Oh no, absolutely, man,
Speaker 2: Because the thing well, first of all, when I was
Speaker 2: eight and I saw the Beatles on Sullivan, I said, right,
Speaker 2: that's what I want to do. So the Beatles just
Speaker 2: changed my life. And then the Monkeys changed my life
Speaker 2: because they were the American Beatles, and then the Jackson
Speaker 2: Five are.
Speaker 7: The Black Beatles, Like is this fantastic? I mean they
Speaker 7: even have their own cartoon show. What brand you know
Speaker 7: has her own cartoon show on Saturdays. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: So I was all, you know, please, I want you back.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 5: Right now?
Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, I was all about the Jackson Five,
Speaker 2: and I had visions on the Wow, wouldn't it be
Speaker 2: great if I could actually like meet them or work
Speaker 2: what's incredible? Next thing, you know, I'm in a room
Speaker 2: and here they are, and we're doing the Destiny album.
Speaker 2: And my first assignment was this little overly white bread
Speaker 2: tune called Blame It on the Boogiet.
Speaker 1: I was like, blame it on the Dane. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: well girl, let's see how we can funk this up.
Speaker 1: Mick Jackson.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well back then it seemed cute, kind it's kind
Speaker 4: of white. It works now because no one expects it
Speaker 4: when when.
Speaker 2: They spin it exactly, But back then I was like, really,
Speaker 2: we're gonna make this a Jackson thing.
Speaker 1: So my my, so Bobby brought that song to you guys.
Speaker 1: I I can't remember if Bobby brought it to them.
Speaker 2: But well, actually yeah, yeah, you know, uh generally speaking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But my monitor back then was all right, I'm out
Speaker 2: here on my own. What would Stevie do?
Speaker 1: That was my thing.
Speaker 2: What would Stevie do? What would Stevie do? So, you know,
Speaker 2: and I would bring in like former band members to
Speaker 2: play on.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, those are early recordings, and so I'm always
Speaker 2: thinking what would Stevie do? So it's like, all right, see,
Speaker 2: gotta make it funny.
Speaker 1: So that's what you know.
Speaker 2: That was the basis of that, and then you know,
Speaker 2: things built from there. I didn't do the Horner arrangers
Speaker 2: for that song, but they did turn out cool.
Speaker 1: Was that Tom Tom?
Speaker 2: Or it wasn't It wasn't Tom yet, I don't I
Speaker 2: don't remember who did the horns for that, but Tom
Speaker 2: Tom didn't come until later on. I mean Tom Tom
Speaker 2: did the horns for shake Your Body Down. I mean
Speaker 2: that was you know, they they they wanted that, but
Speaker 2: that by that point, they definitely wanted the earth winding
Speaker 2: fire influence, you know, so we got a little little
Speaker 2: Tom Washington come in with his crazy stelf. I love Tom,
Speaker 2: but for Destiny, yeah, that's that was the first song,
Speaker 2: and then we just took it from there and it was,
Speaker 2: you know, marriage made in Heaven.
Speaker 1: How do you even approach like you're dealing with the
Speaker 1: five of them? Who's the alpha as far as like
Speaker 1: the music ideas? Who do you have to like? Who's
Speaker 1: the dad?
Speaker 4: Who's who's the person that you have to get the
Speaker 4: idea from? Because I'm certain then it's like, well, my
Speaker 4: piece and it was all of them.
Speaker 1: It was all of them in that way, you know.
Speaker 4: But was it a psychological thing where it's like you
Speaker 4: have the Jedi mind trick? And I don't like this arrangement.
Speaker 4: I don't like the song in my mind?
Speaker 1: Your mane was broke vocal? Okay, so Jackie was vocal?
Speaker 2: No, no, Jackie was actually not as vocal. It certainly
Speaker 2: not a vocal as Jermaine.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: I think that the the the main characters and give
Speaker 2: me yeah, sorry, I lost something. I found it okay.
Speaker 1: Wrong? You know, I'm having so much fun right now,
Speaker 1: I want to do another one. I mean, did Jermaine
Speaker 1: come around?
Speaker 5: I just.
Speaker 2: Okay, stop, you had the crush? Okay, all right, marlin girl,
Speaker 2: let's see. Okay, So we had Michael Randy Randy, uh, Marlon,
Speaker 2: Jackie and Okay, so the the most vocal were Michael,
Speaker 2: Marlon and Randy. Randy was one of the more creative ones,
Speaker 2: okay for sure, yea, And but all the ideas were
Speaker 2: just kind of run through the the the general pipeline
Speaker 2: between all of them. It wasn't I don't I don't
Speaker 2: remember being as difficult as you might think. But you know,
Speaker 2: here's the thing though, so the question they usually loved.
Speaker 2: They generally loved my ideas, you know, what was the
Speaker 2: division of labor, like at working on Destiny, like who
Speaker 2: did what? Oh? Gosh, well, uh, A little foggy on
Speaker 2: the best way to answer that. They all kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to chip in, for instance, with with with Ken
Speaker 2: you feel was on Triumph, right, Okay, so I gotta
Speaker 2: I gotta go to that album as as an example,
Speaker 2: so can you feel it? Specifically? I had, you know,
Speaker 2: several orchestral ideas, and one of them was, like, you know,
Speaker 2: during the main part of the Vamp, you know, so
Speaker 2: you got that thing going on, and then you got
Speaker 2: so I had to where you know, you'd have an
Speaker 2: orchestra chime followed by a gone, I mean by a timpany,
Speaker 2: so you'd be like like that, so you'd have that,
Speaker 2: you know, you'd have like one ethnot being the orchestra
Speaker 2: chime and then the very next eight being the timpany.
Speaker 2: And so they you know, we had one guy do
Speaker 2: the chime and another guy do the timpany. Everybody wanted to,
Speaker 2: you know, play a part in it, and it was cool,
Speaker 2: you know. So I would just answered by saying they
Speaker 2: all kind of wanted to do whatever they could.
Speaker 1: It was reasonable just to contribute.
Speaker 4: Yeah, question about things I Do for you? Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: now it's seventy eight, so all in all, by Earth
Speaker 4: Winding Fire is about a year old. How much did
Speaker 4: Jupiter have to do with that song? Because basically, like East.
Speaker 2: Dude five minutes later, fifteen seconds later, that like literally
Speaker 2: the first verse and the bridge of things I Do
Speaker 2: for You is like from the DNA of Jupiter by
Speaker 2: Earth Wind and Fire, of which I mean I can
Speaker 2: imagine that, you know, most songs. I mean, I even
Speaker 2: think that the DNA of Teddy Pendergrass is get up,
Speaker 2: Get down, can funk, Get loose was somewhat of a
Speaker 2: basis for Shaky Body down to the ground.
Speaker 1: You it's isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's frightening because most songs, I don't think of it
Speaker 2: that deep.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that most songs, most songs
Speaker 1: are usually started.
Speaker 2: With songs that there's a germ, So how can I
Speaker 2: twist it?
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. I I did not live
Speaker 1: it up. You know, all about let's dance, Let's shout.
Speaker 1: Game Funk was all about, like you know that that
Speaker 1: was seventy six.
Speaker 2: I can imagine that the DNA of that stuff just
Speaker 2: being up in the air and then taking it okay. Well,
Speaker 2: while I didn't, while I never looked at it that
Speaker 2: way for that song, I do see your point. And
Speaker 2: to that point, it's very possible because I can tell
Speaker 2: you that they were highly influenced by EWF as we
Speaker 2: all were, because for uh Heartbreak Hotel, they wanted the
Speaker 2: exact same.
Speaker 1: Sound uh.
Speaker 2: From Fantasy MM. They wanted that. They specifically talked about
Speaker 2: that to the point where we brought in Vernie Wow
Speaker 2: to try to have him duplicated on due right and
Speaker 2: he couldn't. I mean because you sat him down and
Speaker 2: asked him.
Speaker 1: What was that sound? And he was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: We couldn't get that thick sound. It was like you
Speaker 2: know in Fantasy because they wanted to duplicate it for
Speaker 2: Hartford Hotel and it was close, but it wasn't. Actually,
Speaker 2: it wasn't even close. It wasn't It wasn't that same
Speaker 2: sound from Fantasy, and we were slightly disappointed, but you know,
Speaker 2: we used it anyway.
Speaker 1: So what what was I gonna say about that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I mean to your point about that, this what
Speaker 1: was the song you brought up?
Speaker 2: Things I'll do for you just possible. I just never
Speaker 2: looked at it that way. But it's an interesting take.
Speaker 4: Well, also, you're in the thick of disco. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: I'm super shocked there's no four on the floor. I mean,
Speaker 4: the remix to blame it on the bookie was four
Speaker 4: on the floor enough with the little extra Conka things.
Speaker 4: But you guys were obviously putting all of your eggs
Speaker 4: in the basket of shake your body down to the ground.
Speaker 1: Because I was gonna say, what do you think that was?
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, though, it's like it's that was
Speaker 4: such not since seven seven, seven ninety three eleven have
Speaker 4: I heard a funk song in which the one, the two,
Speaker 4: the three, and the four are not even emphasized.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mair, I have two words for you hit me.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Yeah, But it was you know, I came
Speaker 2: up with the beat.
Speaker 1: I know you did.
Speaker 4: That's why you're here. But it's like it's it's it's
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy eight, yeah, and disco is at.
Speaker 1: It's flaming.
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys were basically David to this goliath.
Speaker 4: I don't know why did y'all decide to take that risk.
Speaker 2: I didn't even look at it like that. I don't
Speaker 2: know if they did. I certainly didn't. I just my
Speaker 2: thing was what would Stevie do? And I wanted to
Speaker 2: come up with something really cool, and you wanted to
Speaker 2: go with funk and not disco.
Speaker 1: That's what That's how it spoke to me.
Speaker 2: Sure, So I wasn't even I wasn't thinking about disco.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about what would be the most effective
Speaker 2: way to make this, this long song remain interesting six
Speaker 2: minutes later. Was there even a suggestion for a bridge
Speaker 2: or No? No, because it was cool. We all knew
Speaker 2: that was cool the way it was. I I just
Speaker 2: wanted to give it something unique rhythmically that would drive
Speaker 2: it and my and my and my my inspiration was
Speaker 2: was Steve's unorthodox drumming style with.
Speaker 1: The hat ands. Yeah, yeah, so you're thinking like love
Speaker 1: having you around like that, that whole like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking, yeah, I was thinking. So that's
Speaker 2: why I came up with the you know, the high hat,
Speaker 2: the times everything. And by the way, when we had
Speaker 2: ed Green, the legendary session drummer play, he couldn't play
Speaker 2: the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We had to do it in three
Speaker 1: different okay, so when we got we when yeah, I
Speaker 1: heard I heard the master of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and once I pulled the second and the third
Speaker 4: edition of the Drums away and heard just a typical.
Speaker 1: Boots like, oh this is a normal drum break. Oh yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: what it was. But it was just.
Speaker 2: That was the first take I heard that, right, And
Speaker 2: then then the Times and then the high had So what.
Speaker 1: Was on your mind when you added those tom toms?
Speaker 1: And in such an odd.
Speaker 2: Spot because I didn't add it in my head, I
Speaker 2: was able to play the whole thing at once. So
Speaker 2: the the the entire thing is So that's how I
Speaker 2: was hearing it. And that's but since he could only
Speaker 2: do one bit at a time. That's how we you know,
Speaker 2: mapped it out. But for me, it was the whole
Speaker 2: rhythmic concept that I felt would work for the for
Speaker 2: the whole song that was not normal. Think him though, well,
Speaker 2: that's because I'm a keyboard player.
Speaker 1: It wasn't normal.
Speaker 4: It's the it's the equivalent I'll explain that. It's the
Speaker 4: equivalent of all right, if you go to a roulette
Speaker 4: table with a hundred bucks and then let's say like
Speaker 4: you got lucky, and then you made three hundred, and
Speaker 4: you could just you're walking away and you're in the
Speaker 4: parking lot.
Speaker 1: Greg basically did the rhythm version of wait, I'll be
Speaker 1: our back.
Speaker 4: And he ran and just put everything on like one
Speaker 4: really not even on all Black.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play forty two and see what happens. And
Speaker 1: there's roulette. He still won and it's Russian roulette.
Speaker 4: Really is that how you look at it, dude? Because
Speaker 4: it's like they got three chances. I mean, okay, the
Speaker 4: Jackson's was fine and they went gold and it was cute,
Speaker 4: and then you know, the little summer serious thing on
Speaker 4: the CBS kind of sustained them. But going places was
Speaker 4: like a decline. And I love that record still, but
Speaker 4: they needed they needed it, They needed a miracle for sure.
Speaker 2: And yes, this was Super Bowl Patriots versus the Giants
Speaker 2: with first time with yes, I'm making a football restaurants seam.
Speaker 1: Yes I'm waiting. I'm waiting for me to mess up.
Speaker 4: Well, you saw in the super Bowl the last ten
Speaker 4: seconds left and the Giants is through a hell Mary
Speaker 4: pass and okay, all right, reference correct, No, dude.
Speaker 1: That's it's that's just amazing to me because.
Speaker 2: Because I wasn't really looking looking at it that way.
Speaker 2: I just, first of all, if I felt that kind
Speaker 2: of pressure, I'm sure I wouldn't have come over that.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I just you know, they they played
Speaker 1: me the song and I thought, oh, it's so cool.
Speaker 6: Let's that So you're not conscious of your genius?
Speaker 1: MS stop that I wasn't. I didn't.
Speaker 2: All I wanted to do was come up with a
Speaker 2: really hip and different groove. And again it goes back
Speaker 2: to what would Stevie do? And that's that was the
Speaker 2: inspiration for the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Does he know that?
Speaker 6: Does he know that you think you approached things that way?
Speaker 1: Did Steve know?
Speaker 2: Does he know?
Speaker 1: I think he does? Or did you know that that
Speaker 1: was the template for that song. No he didn't know
Speaker 1: it then. Wow. No, so don't stop, Tea get enough?
Speaker 1: Did that bridge right itself? We know the song? Guys
Speaker 1: give background music.
Speaker 2: Anyway you can play it. But actually I should have.
Speaker 2: I should have brought my little souvenir. We found it
Speaker 2: by the way, you found it. It's a podcast. It's
Speaker 2: not visual anyway. But you know I I have at
Speaker 2: the house. I have a forty five with both our names.
Speaker 1: Yeah. We was talking about that. Yeah, yeah, we found
Speaker 1: about after you.
Speaker 2: Okay, So backstory, Greg did me and Boss bills class
Speaker 2: and in n y u h where he told us
Speaker 2: the story that he's about to tell. And since then
Speaker 2: it's been my mission to find every forty five with
Speaker 2: your name on it.
Speaker 1: I have three now really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hell yeah, that's that's my obsession. Any an, he
Speaker 2: don't stop to get enough with your name on.
Speaker 1: The writer's credits.
Speaker 2: Wow, I found it, all right, So tell tell the
Speaker 2: story okay. Well, and you know, Spike asked me to
Speaker 2: tell the story too when he did the doc.
Speaker 1: For what was It? And I did and he loved it,
Speaker 1: but it didn't make it. The state. The state said,
Speaker 1: I don't think the estate has no control over this show.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, because they say it was like, I
Speaker 2: don't think so, cause I don't think so. So get
Speaker 2: a call from Mike. He wants me to come by
Speaker 2: to write a song, or to hear a song to write.
Speaker 2: I go okay, So I hop on over to haven
Speaker 2: Hurst and uh see him and he uh plays me
Speaker 2: this thing.
Speaker 1: It's just it just needs something, it just needs another section.
Speaker 1: So I hear it, and.
Speaker 2: You know it's fantastic. I mean, you know, everything's there,
Speaker 2: the first, the hook, you know, it's cool, groove, everything
Speaker 2: is great.
Speaker 1: He says, yeah, it just needs one more second section.
Speaker 1: So I go.
Speaker 2: And probably in the time that it would take you
Speaker 2: to hum the Jeopardy theme song, I came up with
Speaker 2: c Bridge.
Speaker 1: So I played that and then I said, so what
Speaker 1: do you think? He goes, I like it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he says, yeah, this is cool. So and
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, okay, well, now he did ask me to
Speaker 2: come over to ride, so I'm guessing I should call
Speaker 2: myself a co writer.
Speaker 1: So I says, well, so what am I gonna get it?
Speaker 1: A piece of this?
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah it really, he says yeah. I says, well,
Speaker 2: what do you think? He goes, what do you think?
Speaker 2: I go, what do you think?
Speaker 1: So we're doing we're going back and forth on that.
Speaker 1: So now in my mind there's another sound for what's
Speaker 1: going on in my mind. But it's just like.
Speaker 2: The wheels are spinning in and all this is happening
Speaker 2: in nanoseconds. Right, So I'm thinking, oh my god, what
Speaker 2: do I say?
Speaker 1: What do I what do I say?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: How much? No, that's too much? Forty No, not quite
Speaker 1: thirty five I don't know. Twenty five well maybe I'm
Speaker 1: not sure. Fifteen I don't know. So I keep talking myself.
Speaker 1: I talk myself down, I talk myself. I admit it
Speaker 1: to what numbers?
Speaker 2: So I says, well, how about ten percent?
Speaker 1: Oh my, that sounds fair. I know, I know, I know,
Speaker 1: but stay with me. So I says, what what about
Speaker 1: ten percent?
Speaker 2: He goes, okay, I go really, He goes, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't even know how I drove home because I'm sure
Speaker 2: I could have levitated. I'm like, so, I'm just like
Speaker 2: Lopy at this point, right, and I'm I'm just so excited.
Speaker 2: Some days past, I get something in the mail. It's
Speaker 2: a contract. Open it up, and I'm looking and I'm
Speaker 2: scrolling out. First of all, I don't even pay attention
Speaker 2: to the fact that they misspelled my name, my last name.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't even care that they use
Speaker 1: the T instead of a P. I don't care. I
Speaker 1: don't care games instead of.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I get past that. It's at the
Speaker 1: top of the contract anyway, I don't care. I scrolled down.
Speaker 2: I go, man, I'm looking for the punch sign and
Speaker 2: I see, I go, it's there.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So some more time passes, right, some more days past,
Speaker 2: and then I got a phone call and it's from
Speaker 2: one of Mike's managers at the time, it was either
Speaker 2: Ron Rising or Freddie Demand. It was probably Freddy Freddy
Speaker 2: and he said, as hey, Greg, you know that contract pretender.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, no problem, is on the way back
Speaker 1: to you any any.
Speaker 2: Second out, no worries. He's like, well, not so fast,
Speaker 2: and this is where you have the sound effect for
Speaker 2: a breaking carlic work too, And I go, what do
Speaker 2: you mean not so fast? Because well, Michael has been
Speaker 2: thinking about this, and it turns out that he is
Speaker 2: determined that what you did was more of an arrangement.
Speaker 2: So that falls into the category of arrangements. So what
Speaker 2: we're gonna do is we're just gonna We're gonna we're
Speaker 2: gonna pass on that contract part. So thanks for your
Speaker 2: contribution and we'll check back with you.
Speaker 1: What do you get for the arrangement? I mean the difference?
Speaker 2: Oh god? Yeah, well I got a pat on the back,
Speaker 2: and liyah, see, this was my introduction to.
Speaker 1: Business. So do you slight question?
Speaker 5: Though?
Speaker 2: Okay, did you because I have a lot more to
Speaker 2: say about it, but did you know this is let me,
Speaker 2: this is one of the times I got it in
Speaker 2: the rut so with destiny and triumph, With destiny and triumph,
Speaker 2: weren't there any talks of hey guys, can I get
Speaker 2: co production at least? Or what am I doing here?
Speaker 2: Because here are those sessions you're like leading that ship?
Speaker 2: Yeah I know, I know, And and yes there were
Speaker 2: and there was an answer for that question, and they add, no,
Speaker 2: there was an answer. The answer came in the form
Speaker 2: of the term associate producer, which doesn't mean it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean anything. But you know, they figured they just throw
Speaker 2: me half of a bone, an old bone, and shut
Speaker 2: me up. That's the answer to that question. But I
Speaker 2: got to go back because as I was saying to
Speaker 2: my introduction to business and and the fact that I
Speaker 2: was not only young, but of the makeup that didn't
Speaker 2: want to fight, non confrontational. And this is the difference
Speaker 2: between me and I'd say nine out of the ten
Speaker 2: artists in today's world, because they are freaking savvy and
Speaker 2: they don't care. And I applaud them for that. I
Speaker 2: applaud them for their their business savvy and their their
Speaker 2: their their understanding. But unfortunately, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: nothing has changed from what happened to me, and you know,
Speaker 2: forty years before that in the fifties, to listen to
Speaker 2: these days, because there's still those horror stories of people
Speaker 2: just being grossly unfair for virtually no reason. And who
Speaker 2: did you You said the ten percent would have broken?
Speaker 2: Of course not, wasn't that? That's not the issue. The
Speaker 2: issue is the appearance. I want no yeah, I want
Speaker 2: it all, And the issue is the But now, while
Speaker 2: this is going on, while these days are passing, and
Speaker 2: while the the you know, the contracts in the works,
Speaker 2: and before I get the phone call from Freddy the
Speaker 2: forty five, the single was already going to print, it
Speaker 2: was already being pressed. That's why you have initial copies
Speaker 2: with my name and Michaels because even people like Quincy thought,
Speaker 2: oh man, Greg is in he's in there.
Speaker 1: He was so proud of me.
Speaker 2: And then, you know, because that was the first pressing,
Speaker 2: so it already went to press with my name on it,
Speaker 2: only for Michael to change his mind later on.
Speaker 6: See, that's when we talked to Quincy. He had this
Speaker 6: kind of disposition of yeah, that's Michael and that was
Speaker 6: messed up, but that's Michael.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But guess what, there's a Quincy version of that too.
Speaker 4: And if you want to hear that Quincy Jones story,
Speaker 4: make sure you tune in the next week for part
Speaker 4: two of the Quest Love Supreme Interview with the one
Speaker 4: and only Greg filling Games.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I know, I'm sorry to leave y'all hanging like that,
Speaker 4: but you know how it is, y'all. Make sure y'all
Speaker 4: come back next week. We'll have more treats for y'all.
Speaker 4: We'll see you on the next go round see it.
Speaker 4: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
Speaker 4: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more
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