WEBVTT - Evan Osnos, Author Talks New Book

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Evan Asto is great

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<v Speaker 1>to have you with a staff writer the New Yorkers.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom alluded to there. The new book is called The

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<v Speaker 1>Haves and Have Yachts Dispatches on the Ultra Rich. Congrats

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<v Speaker 1>on the book. Congrats also on the title, which is excellent.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with the warning that we heard from former

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<v Speaker 1>President Biden has prepared to leave office, he said today,

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<v Speaker 1>and oligarchy is taking shape in America, of extreme wealth,

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<v Speaker 1>power and influence that really threatens our entire democracy, our

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<v Speaker 1>basic rights and freedom. He sounded the alarm as he

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<v Speaker 1>was making his way to the exit. What has changed

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to wealth inequality in this country over

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<v Speaker 1>the last five six months.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks guys, by the way, Tom, you made my day.

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<v Speaker 2>We live in a world, John McPhee made. I'll say

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<v Speaker 2>that what President Biden was getting at it is something

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<v Speaker 2>really important to a lot of folks. Frankly, it sounded

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<v Speaker 2>almost belated. Look, the good news is this country has

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<v Speaker 2>never been wealthier in so many respects. We are build

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<v Speaker 2>holding companies, were on the cusp of a new era

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<v Speaker 2>of technology and all the ways you talk about on

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<v Speaker 2>the show every day whether it's AI and robotics, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet at the same time, as you know, there are

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<v Speaker 2>about half of American adults who will tell you that

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<v Speaker 2>they don't have one thousand dollars to spend on an

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<v Speaker 2>emergency expense. We are at a point now. It's really

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<v Speaker 2>sort of similar to where we've been at moments in

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<v Speaker 2>our history where we have tremendous technological opportunity, huge wealth creation,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're also facing a fork in the road to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that that is also not steering our government

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<v Speaker 2>down a path that Henry Ford used to say that

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to make sure that his own employees, his

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<v Speaker 2>own workers, could afford the cars he was making. And

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<v Speaker 2>those are some of the decisions we have to be

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<v Speaker 2>making now.

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<v Speaker 1>This is clearly a theme that has animated a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of your work. I look at the Osmos Ooh for

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<v Speaker 1>going back to your first book, Age of Ambition, Chasing Fortune,

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<v Speaker 1>Truth and Faith in the New China, which I read

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<v Speaker 1>on my first trip to Shanghai, and you re mark

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<v Speaker 1>then on just the abundance the amount of wealthy excitement

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<v Speaker 1>about wealth and upper mobility in China. As you look

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<v Speaker 1>at this particular book, are we looking at something that's

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<v Speaker 1>uniquely American, or has this rise of the ultra rich

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of shared globally.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a fascinating parallel in many ways, David. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I first started reading in a sense about the

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<v Speaker 2>American guilded age when I was living in China, because

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to understand what was happening. We were

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<v Speaker 2>seeing railroads built at a pace we hadn't seen since

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<v Speaker 2>America in the nineteenth century. It's fitting in some ways

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<v Speaker 2>that I used The Great Gatsby when I lived in

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<v Speaker 2>Beijing to conceptualize it. Here we are, it's twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five hundredth anniversary of that book. There are a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of lessons in there about how do you take that

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<v Speaker 2>sense of cultural energy that we might have had at

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<v Speaker 2>certain moments in the Roaring twenties, but also the awareness

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<v Speaker 2>that without making really smart choices, we're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that this money gets into the hands of

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<v Speaker 2>people who can rise with the tide.

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<v Speaker 3>Evan, you grew up in the crucible this Grantwich, Connecticut,

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<v Speaker 3>where I'm sure three kids down the street did have

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<v Speaker 3>Hinckley picnic boats.

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<v Speaker 2>You didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Your father was acclaimed within journalism, But what does the

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<v Speaker 3>crew do below the fancy people to try to get

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<v Speaker 3>their kids to motivate and have a good life and

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<v Speaker 3>even aspire to be richer.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is.

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<v Speaker 3>Topic one right now, between the buffeting of AI the

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<v Speaker 3>decline of liberal arts. What do the kids do just

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<v Speaker 3>below those with the super yachts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I face these questions myself. I'm a dad,

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<v Speaker 2>I've got two kids. I think about the challenges of

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<v Speaker 2>people coming out of school today and how hard it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be to get those first jobs. But here's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing, you know, we have some pretty great models

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<v Speaker 2>to inspire us in terms of how to think about

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<v Speaker 2>being energetic, being creative. I think about Warren Buffett. He's

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<v Speaker 2>on our minds a lot, all of us these days.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. He talks about how much he left, how

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<v Speaker 2>much he will leave to his kids. He likes to say,

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, Tommy says, I want to leave them

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<v Speaker 2>enough that they can do anything, but not so much

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<v Speaker 2>that they can do nothing. I try, as I think

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<v Speaker 2>about the opportunities that are coming to say to people, Look,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not enough for us to just say. Elon Musk

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<v Speaker 2>has now crossed the four hundred billion dollar threshold We've

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<v Speaker 2>never had somebody with that kind of prosperity. Isn't that

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<v Speaker 2>a sin of strength? No, we have to be saying

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<v Speaker 2>to people, if we don't make smart choices, it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to end up with too many musks and perhaps not

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<v Speaker 2>enough buffets. And I think that's an important thing to

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<v Speaker 2>keep in mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Spare a teer for the billionaire class. But I am

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<v Speaker 1>interested in this element of loneliness that comes through in

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<v Speaker 1>your book. So if you have billionaires buying these super yachts,

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<v Speaker 1>they can be in isolation on the open seas. You

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<v Speaker 1>have another chapter or another piece that you've written about

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley billionaires who are looking to remote New Zealand

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<v Speaker 1>as a place where they can go. Whether the storm,

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<v Speaker 1>if that's a nuclear disaster or something that's a natural disaster,

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<v Speaker 1>what explains it? And just I think the contrast is

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<v Speaker 1>so starked to what you were talking about a moment ago,

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<v Speaker 1>which is during the Gilded Age, you had billionaires, had

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<v Speaker 1>multi billionaires, I should say, maybe not billionaires who are

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<v Speaker 1>interested in philanthropy and in helping the wider population and

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<v Speaker 1>building libraries in towns across America. It seems like there

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<v Speaker 1>is a stark contrast that exists now between the aspirations

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot of these ultra wealthy than what we

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<v Speaker 1>saw before.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, David, you know, for the reporting for this book,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to New Zealand, I went to Monico. Hardship

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<v Speaker 2>pay was not forthcoming despite my insistence, And it was

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<v Speaker 2>a fascinating way of getting into the minds of people

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<v Speaker 2>who have succeeded. And I think what you find in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of cases, and this is the surprise, is

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<v Speaker 2>a sense of fear. Frankly, a sense of verdigo. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people will say, look, you've made all

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<v Speaker 2>the money in the world, what are you afraid of?

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you need to stand on the stage with

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<v Speaker 2>a president who you may not even necessarily ideologically agree with.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think what that tells us is that the

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<v Speaker 2>higher you get, you actually can end up feeling quite vulnerable,

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<v Speaker 2>quite exposed. I mean, as Silicon Valley CEO said to me,

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<v Speaker 2>I keep a helicopter gassed up all the time, and

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<v Speaker 2>I have a bunker with an air filtration system. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that is Another former hedge fund manager said

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<v Speaker 2>to me, Look, there are twenty five hedge fund managers

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<v Speaker 2>in this country who make it more money, and by

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<v Speaker 2>and then all of the kindergartener teachers, and he said,

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<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't feel good to be one of those

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five. That's the vertigo