1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to text Time, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. And as I record this, 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: it is August twenty twenty, and there is an epic 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: showdown going on between two tech companies. An epic epic showdown, 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: or or maybe an epic epic showdown. What I mean 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: to say is that the company Epic or Epic Games, 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: known for video games in general and the juggernaut game 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Fortnite in particular, is facing off against the sometimes trillion 11 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: dollar monolithic company Apple, and things are getting spicy. But 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: why are these two companies feuding and how are things 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: escal leading? As I research and write this, the fight 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: is just gearing up, but it promises to get much 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: nastier over time. Today we're going to learn about the 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: conflict between these companies as well as get a deeper 17 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: understanding of the way that apps, services and Apple make money, 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: because really, that's what this all boils down to the 19 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: method that companies follow to make money and how they 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: can make more money and keep more of the money 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: they make. So you know, spoiler alert. That's really what 22 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: this is all about when you get down to it. 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: But first some background. Now, I've done an episode about 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: Fortnite that published back in February of two thousand nineteen, 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna go over the entire history of Fortnite, 26 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: but let's do a quick rundown of Epic Games so 27 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: we understand where they're coming from. Way back in, a 28 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: guy named Tim Sweeney was programming video games and saving 29 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: them onto floppy disks and then sending those disks out 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: over the mail, and he was using the company name 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Potomac Computer Systems. He hired on a couple of important 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: people as well, Mark Rhyan and Cliff Blazynski. In Sweeney 33 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: would rename this company and it became Epic Mega Games, 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: and the founders started creating lots of games that got 35 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: a pretty good reception. A few years later, as computers 36 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: got more powerful and graphics cards began to be a thing, 37 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: Epic evolved into Epic Games and the company released a 38 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: computer engine, a game engine called the Unreal Engine. So 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: computer engines or video game engines are sort of a 40 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: block of code that provide tools to game developers, like 41 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: physics engines and graphics engines, and a game engine saves 42 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: game developers a lot of time and a lot of effort. 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: It provides some basic functionality that the game developers can 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: then build upon. It's like the framework, and it keeps 45 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: developers from having to re invent the wheel every time 46 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: they want to build a game. The Unreal Engine would 47 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: become a really popular game engine, and that will play 48 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: an important part in our story. Around two thousand and six, 49 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: Epic Games began to saunter casually over to the world 50 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: of console video games, developing titles or adapting existing PC 51 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: games for the Xbox three sixty. The company was branching 52 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: out beyond PC and Mac titles. Some of their earliest 53 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: games that you know Epic produced were available on the 54 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: Mac computer. That will also play an important part of 55 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: our story. The company announced Fortnite in two thousand eleven. 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: It would take a few years before it actually would debut, 57 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: and in a Chinese company called Tencent Holdings ended up 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: buying a forty steak in Epic Games for a three 59 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: hundred thirty million dollars, a princely sum. This, by the way, 60 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: makes Epic another potential target in the ongoing political and 61 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: trade battle between the United States and China for much 62 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: the same reason that TikTok is under scrutiny. But that's 63 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: a different topic that will probably not come back into 64 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: this episode. I think I don't know. I'm just at 65 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: the beginning of writing this. I'm reading my old notes, okay, 66 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: so I can say definitively no, that's not going to 67 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: come back in. In two thousand and fourteen, Epic announced 68 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: that when Fortnite would launch, it was going to be 69 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: a free to play game. Now, this is also a 70 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: big part of our story, so a free to play 71 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: game is a little bit deceptive. It is free to 72 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: download and install and play one of these games, but 73 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: it typically has in game transactions, and these are transactions 74 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: where players can spend real world money and enhance their 75 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: game play in some way. Games do this in different ways. 76 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: Some games allow players to purchase upgrade that give them 77 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: an advantage in the game. The derogatory name for this 78 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: style of game is called pay to win, the implication 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: being that a mediocre player can dominate people who have 80 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: spent more time and developed more skill in the game 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: just by dishing out more cash for upgrades. And a 82 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: lot of gamers view this as being inherently unfair. Other 83 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: games only allow for cosmetic transactions, so it's stuff that 84 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: changes the appearance of different elements in the game, like 85 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: a player's outfit or their weapons, skins or whatever, and 86 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: some games incorporate are element of randomness in the transactions 87 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: with loot boxes. With these games, you don't buy specific 88 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: upgrades or cosmetic changes. Instead, you buy a crate or 89 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: a loot box which you then open within the game, 90 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: and only then do you find out what you've got 91 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: from inside the crate or box. It's a classic mystery 92 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: bag idea of you ever went into a store where 93 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: the country stores used to do this all the time 94 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: where I was growing up, where you would have bags 95 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: that would just be a a mystery bag. There'd be 96 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: a toy inside, but there'll be no way of knowing 97 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: what toy was in there until you bought the bag 98 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: and then you could open it, so you have no 99 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: clue what's inside, and you have to take a gamble 100 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: if you purchase it, maybe it will be something cool 101 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: or maybe it'll be something lame. And on a side note, 102 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: there's a definite art to designing these style of loot boxes. 103 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: You want there to be just enough payout to keep 104 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: players engaged and buying the crates. So you need to 105 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: keep those payouts just rare enough so that it feels 106 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: like an accomplishment to get, you know, a rare skin 107 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: or something like that, but not so rare that people 108 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: feel they're getting nothing but garbage every time they buy 109 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: a lootbox. So this is not easy to do, and 110 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: it's also something that can encourage unhealthy behaviors akin to addiction. 111 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: And it's said the core of why games that have 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: these sorts of transactions off come under scrutiny by various 113 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: advocacy groups and governments around the world. Now that's another 114 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: kettle of fish, but the micro transactions get to the 115 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: very heart of the matter we're looking at in this episode. 116 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: In two thousand nineteen, Epic Games made another big move. 117 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: They launched the Epic Games Store. Now, over its relatively 118 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: short history, the PC games industry has seen some pretty 119 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: massive changes in how companies sell and distribute games. So 120 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: in the old old days, you had game programmers like 121 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: Sweeney who would build a game and then make copies 122 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: of it on discs you floppy discs, and then sell 123 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: them either by mail order or sometimes going through like 124 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: a local computer hobby store, and that evolved into game 125 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: developers and publishers selling games through brick and mortar retail 126 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: shops like game stop or best Buy or Walmart or whatever. 127 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: But over the last decade the model has shifted dramatically 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: over towards digital distribution. The vast majority of games are 129 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: now sold through digital downloads, more than eighty percent since 130 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen. This changes the model a lot, and 131 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons why companies like GameStop are 132 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: really in trouble these days. But you still need a 133 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: place to sell your games. You need a shopping portal 134 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: or something. Now you could try and do this through 135 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: your own company's web page, but the problem with that 136 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: is that you're asking gamers to go to a lot 137 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: of different websites when they're in the mood to buy 138 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: a game. Most gamers like to play a variety of 139 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: titles from a variety of companies. There are very few 140 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: gamers who are like, I'm only going to buy games 141 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: from this one company, and smaller independent developers have a 142 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: hard time standing out with so many big companies that 143 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: are in the industry. So having a centralized digital store 144 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: where you can look at titles from big or small companies. 145 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: That ended up being a really great idea, and that 146 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: was an idea of that a company called Valve, famous 147 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: for video game series like Half Life in Portal had 148 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: the Valve Digital Store gave PC gamers a centralized location 149 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: where they could shop for games, and Valve would end 150 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: up making truckloads of cash off of this because the 151 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: company would take a cut out of every transaction made 152 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: through the Valve Steam Store. If you bought a title 153 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: on Steam, whether it came from Valve or not, Valve 154 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: would get some of that cash, and for a while, 155 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: it was effectively the only game in town, so to speak, 156 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: unless you were to go directly to each publisher. In 157 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, that changed. Epic announced the Epic Game 158 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: Store and also announced that it was going to take 159 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: a smaller cut than what Valve was taking in their 160 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: Steam Store. That would mean that video game companies would 161 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: get to keep more of the money from those sales, 162 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: and it would also mean that if a company were 163 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: to hold a sale, like if they were to discount 164 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: on a title, they wouldn't take as big a hit 165 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: on revenue as a result, and it introduced competition in 166 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: the digital marketplace. Some of epics moves upset gamers, particularly 167 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: when they heard about specific titles that would be exclusively 168 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: sold through the Epics store. Gamers are not crazy about 169 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the idea of having to manage to store accounts, I guess, 170 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: but you could make a strong argument that competition would 171 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: ultimately be a good thing, even if it meant you 172 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: had to go to two stops when you were shopping 173 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: for games instead of just one, And that really sets 174 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: the stage for the show down with Apple. Epic Games 175 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: has done something really smart with Fortnite. Actually, they've done 176 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: a lot of smart things, including lifting the battle Royal 177 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: concept that was working so well for video games like 178 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: Player Unknowns Battlegrounds and then applying it to Fortnite. That 179 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: transformed that game and made it into the juggernaut it is. 180 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: But Epic has followed what I think of as the 181 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: Netflix strategy. One of the things that Netflix really got 182 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: right early on when it started making movies available to 183 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: stream online is that the company worked hard to make 184 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: sure that this service would be available across a ton 185 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: of different platforms. Netflix wanted to make sure that users 186 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: would be able to access the service no matter how 187 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: they watch video. So that meant that Netflix had its 188 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: web based interface, and then it also had an interface 189 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: for smart TVs and one for smartphones and one for 190 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: video game consoles. Essentially, the idea was, if this thing 191 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: can play video, Netflix wants an interface to go on it. 192 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: And the strategy paid off big time. It meant Netflix 193 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: could cast a truly wide, you know, net to capture 194 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: as much audience as possible. Epic has done something similar 195 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: with Fortnite. Game developers often have to weigh some pretty 196 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: tough decisions when it comes to making games. One strategy 197 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: is to build games for a specific thick platform and 198 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: just to focus on that exclusively, and that gives you 199 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: the ability to really refine the game for that specific 200 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: platform and and and make sure that everything is working 201 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: well and you end up with the most polished, well 202 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: designed game you can create. So if you want the 203 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: game to be available on more than one platform, such 204 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: as let's say that you want the game to be 205 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: playable on PC as well as on a PlayStation console, well, 206 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: then you have to devote time to adapting the game 207 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: to work on the other platform. Because games are not 208 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: just something you can copy and paste over on to 209 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: one thing from together. You can't just pull the code 210 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: from a PC game and PLoP it into the PlayStation store. 211 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. So you really have two choices, 212 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: one of which doesn't make much sense. That choice is 213 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,359 Speaker 1: to essentially recreate the game entirely for the new platform. 214 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: This would mean building the same game two times, at 215 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: least only the second time you're doing it for a 216 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: different system. That's not really efficient. That's not a great 217 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: way to go about it. It's certainly not a cost 218 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: effective way to go about it. So the other way 219 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: is to port the game over, which means you're really 220 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: trying to keep as much of the basic code you 221 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: built for the original game whatever platform moves on, like 222 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: for PC, and only focus on making changes where it's 223 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: necessary in order to run on a different platform like 224 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: the PlayStation or whatever other platform you're developing for. Either way, 225 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: it's a process that takes more time and resources to complete. 226 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: Some companies will farm this sort of work out to 227 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: other game developers, and this gives the original company the 228 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: freedom to do other stuff like developed downloadable content or 229 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: otherwise known as DLC for that original title, or to 230 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: work on a brand new game with Fortnite, Epic developed 231 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: versions for pretty much every conceivable platform. There are versions 232 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: of Fortnite that you can play on PC, on MAC, 233 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: on the Xbox One, the PlayStation four, the Nintendo Switch, 234 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: on Android phones and iOS devices like iPhone and iPads. 235 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: So epics approach is, again, if this thing can play games, 236 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: we want to be there. Now. I say that knowing 237 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: there are other gaming platforms out there, like you know, 238 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: handhelds and stuff like that, So don't yell at me, 239 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. What's more, as an added 240 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: value to the game, Epic has included the ability to 241 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: have a lot of cross platform play. Now, this means 242 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: that people playing the game on totally different systems can 243 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: potentially play together in the same game or match. This, 244 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: by the way, helps illustrate the fact that all these 245 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: systems are ultimately computers when you really get down to it, 246 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: and that would mean that you could play on PC, 247 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: your friend could be on a PlayStation, and the two 248 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: of you could actually play in the same game. Now, 249 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: typically that doesn't really happened that much. At first, this 250 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: cross platform ability wasn't quite universal. You would run into 251 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: weird situations where player a could play with player B, 252 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: but they couldn't play with players C, and player B 253 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: could play with either A or C, but they could 254 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: not play with both at the same time. However, over time, 255 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Epic would roll out more cross platform support. In two 256 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, they tweaked this a bit so that players 257 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: who were on Nintendo Switch would by default get grouped 258 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: into games with mobile players, you know, people on Android 259 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: phones or iOS devices, whereas Xbox and PS four players 260 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: were by default grouped together. The company still allowed people 261 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: to create parties to form across these technological divides if 262 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: they really wanted to. It's just the differences and system 263 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: power and controls really make a big impact on gameplay. 264 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: It could be very difficult for someone on mobile to 265 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: compete head to head against someone on PC, for example. 266 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: But anyway, that's epics set up. When we come back, 267 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: we'll do a brief rundown on Apple and then we'll 268 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: talk about why these companies are waging war. But first 269 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. So Apple. I've done a 270 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: series of episodes about Apple, and it was one of 271 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: the early personal computer companies to emerge out of the 272 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: hobbyist scene of the nineteen seventies. The original Apple computer, 273 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: the Apple one, was really a hobbyist computer. It wasn't 274 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: until the introduction of the Apple two line that you 275 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: started seeing machines that could appeal to people who were 276 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: you know, they were geeks, but they weren't, you know, 277 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: like hardcore computer hobbyists geeks. Then you had the introduction 278 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: of the Macintosh computer in four. That's going to have 279 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: an interesting callback later in this episode. Then co founder 280 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: Steve Joe either quit or was fired from the company. 281 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: He was definitely pushed aside, and so even if he quit, 282 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: that was because he had essentially been neutralized by company 283 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: management at that time. Now, after the ousting of Steve Jobs, 284 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: Apple executives would make a series of really bad decisions 285 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: that ultimately put the computer in jeopardy. Now I'm not 286 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: going to go into detail because they aren't really relevant 287 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: for this episode, except to say I'm sure that the 288 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: brushes with bankruptcy shaped the company as a result and 289 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: created a sort of steely resolve to reverse course. So 290 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, who had left the company in nineteen five, 291 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: would end up being called back to Apple a little 292 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: more than a decade later in to act as something 293 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: of a like a counselor or advisor, and before long 294 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: he was able to regain control or if you prefer, rest, 295 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: control of the company, first as an interim CEO and 296 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: then ultimately as the permanent CEO. Apple was in bad shape, 297 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: and Jobs was determined to fix it and then make 298 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: sure the company would never be in such a precarious 299 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: position again. I think it's fair to say he had 300 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a ruthless edge to him. He was 301 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: also a remarkable salesman and always had been. While the 302 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: course corrections helped improve Apple standing, what really turned things 303 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: around for the company was the introduction of a little 304 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: device that could play music files. This was called the iPod, 305 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: and Jobs unveiled it on October twenty three. One. Two 306 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: years later, Apple would launch the iTunes store, and that 307 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: would really be a transformative moment for the company. Now, 308 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: the iPod helped Apple get a new foothold in the 309 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: consumer market. The company would strengthen that over time with 310 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: the introduction of the iPhone and, to a lesser extent, 311 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: the iPad and the I Watch. But the iPod and 312 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: iPhone were slam dunks or touchdowns or Grand Slam home 313 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: runs or whatever. Impressive sports analogy you would like to use, 314 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: That's what they were. They weren't just popular, they became iconic. Heck, 315 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: the iPod didn't invent the MP three player, but it 316 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: certainly defined the MP three player. We usually call shows 317 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: like mine like tech stuff podcasts for a reason, and 318 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: that reason is the Apple iPod. But I want to 319 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: tell you, guys an important fact. The iPod helped turn 320 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: Apple around. The iPhone secured Apple's place as the company 321 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: that makes status symbols that are esthetically appealing technology. Though 322 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: I should also admit that the company was on that 323 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: path already with the redesign of Mac computers and the 324 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: evolution of the iPod. But one thing that would truly 325 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: set Apple apart was the introduction of the iTunes store 326 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: back in two thousand three. So the company had first 327 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: made and iTunes program in two thousand one, but at 328 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: that time, iTunes was really just about letting users rip 329 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: music from their c d s and then load the 330 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: files onto their iPods. In two thousand three, the company 331 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: began to act as a sort of music retailer, offering 332 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: up downloads of individual songs, and this was the start 333 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: of a massive change in how the music industry had 334 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: been working and it would presage you like that word. 335 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: The change in the video game industry by you know, 336 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: like a decade so since the introduction of the long 337 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: playing album or LP record, companies have been marketing full 338 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: albums as sort of the preferred product. Now, you could 339 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: go and buy a single, typically with a B side 340 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: song attached to it, but that was less common and 341 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: for those of you who have never dealt with music 342 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: on a physical medium, an album is a collection of 343 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: songs by a band or artist, and a single is 344 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: a particular song off an album. Usually it's one that 345 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: the artist and the music label feels has a particularly 346 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: catchy vibe to it. The goal of picking a single 347 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: is to pick out the standout hit or hits from 348 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: an album. In other words, but now Apple was allowing 349 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: people to purchase not just albums, but individual songs. Sometimes 350 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: your favorite song off an album might not be a single, 351 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: which means you normally wouldn't be able to buy just 352 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: that song. You would have to buy the whole album, 353 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: And if it's the only one you like off that album, 354 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: you might deliberate about whether or not it's worth it 355 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: to purchase the whole thing or not. Why would you 356 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: spend your money if you really just want one song? Not. 357 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: At the time Apple was introducing the iTunes Store, music 358 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: piracy was running wild. People were using all sorts of 359 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: different services to share music and download specific songs. For 360 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: the music industry. Apple was helping solve a problem by 361 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: guaranteeing quality and safety, two things that were not a 362 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: guar team if you were, you know, using piracy, Apple 363 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: could convince people to buy music rather than just share 364 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: it illegally. If a song costs less than a dollar 365 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: and you knew it was going to be really good 366 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: audio quality, plus it wasn't going to infect your computer 367 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: with a virus, you might just go and purchase it. 368 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of research shows that piracy doesn't 369 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: always come about because people just don't want to pay 370 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: for stuff. It usually grows because people don't have options 371 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: when it comes to buying the stuff they like. So 372 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: if you provide options, you remove some of the motivation 373 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: for piracy. Now, this gave the iTunes store a nice 374 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: healthy amount of support early on, and in return, because 375 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: iTunes was acting as a sort of retail store for 376 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: this music, Apple would take a cut of the transaction. 377 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: The music label would get most of the money, but 378 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: Apple would pocket fair percentage as well, And for music labels, 379 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: this wasn't that big of a roadblock. Producing music on 380 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: physical media is expensive. You're dealing with actual materials like 381 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: c D s or cassettes or vinyl or whatever it is. 382 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: You want to produce enough of that to meet consumer demand. 383 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: But you also don't want to go overboard and make 384 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: more copies than you can sell, because that's just a 385 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: waste of money in space. You also have to store 386 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: that stuff, and you have to ship it. In other words, 387 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: there's a cost associated with actually producing and selling music 388 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: on physical media. Going digital helped reduce or even remove 389 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot of those costs, lowering the overhead, and so 390 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: even with Apple taking a cut, this looked like a 391 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: pretty good deal. That deal would set a precedent, one 392 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: that Apple would extend when it debuted the App Store 393 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: for the iPhone in the summer of two thousand eight. 394 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: The iPhone had come out the year before, and its 395 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: launch had been an enormous hit. The media went bonkers 396 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: over the production of the attractive, sleek, exciting smartphone called 397 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: the iPhone. Now Apple was introducing the world to a 398 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: marketplace where you could download apps to enhance your phone experience. 399 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: You might download games or productivity apps, or lifestyle apps 400 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: or whatever. I mean. You you know what apps are. 401 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: Some of those apps were free, some of them cost money. 402 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: Some included ways to make a purchase within the app itself. 403 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: So for most apps that involved any sort of transaction, 404 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: whether that was the purchase of the app itself or 405 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: a transaction that happened within the app, Apple would take 406 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: a cut because it was the facilitator. It was the 407 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: retail space, the marketer, the support system, it was how 408 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: people could get access to that software in the first place. 409 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: So it took a thirty percent across the board cut 410 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: for certain transactions. Now, if an app is subscribe option based, 411 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: Apple would reduce that to upon the second year of 412 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: a subscription, but that covers a much smaller percentage of apps. Also, 413 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: I should point out that for some transactions, Apple does 414 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: not take a cut. For example, a ride hailing app 415 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: like Lift or Uber doesn't have to share thirty of 416 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: affair with Apple. Nor does a food delivery service have 417 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: to give Apple a cut for every order made through 418 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: the iPhone app on that food delivery service. But in 419 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: many cases for every dollar spent within an iPhone app, 420 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: Apple gets thirty cents and the other seventy cents go 421 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: to the app developer or you know, whatever entity owns 422 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: the rights to that app. Apple services make up a 423 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: pretty sizeable chunk of Apple's revenue. Now, it's not the 424 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: biggest chunk. iPhone sales are still the king there. They 425 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: can make up to around of all revenue for the company. 426 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: That's impressive. However, revenue and profit are two different things. 427 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Revenue is how much money you bring in by selling stuff. 428 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: Profit is how much money you have left over once 429 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: you deduct the costs of producing and selling things, essentially 430 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: the costs of business from the money that you brought in. 431 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, iPhone sales make up the lions share of revenue, 432 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: but it still costs money to produce each iPhone, though 433 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: not that much money compared to how much Apple sales 434 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: them for. But that's another matter. Now. While I haven't 435 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: seen the figures and I can't make any definitive statements, 436 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: I feel fairly confident that the profit margin on Apple's 437 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: App store is much better than it's iPhone sales. The 438 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: more apps that join within app transactions, the more money 439 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: Apple collects as a result. Oh and there's one other 440 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: important element to this. Apple only allows users to get 441 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: iPhone apps through the Apple Store. That means, if you 442 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: want to run an app on your iPhone and you 443 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: don't want to go through the trouble figuring out how 444 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: to hack your phone so you can sideload apps, you 445 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: have to go through the official App store. There is 446 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: no other game in town. So any company that wants 447 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: to make apps for iPhones, and there are a lot 448 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: of companies that do, they have to play ball with Apple. 449 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: Most companies just deal with this, partly because iPhone users 450 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: tend to spend more money on apps than other smartphone 451 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: users do. Numerous analysts have estimated that when it comes 452 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: to consumers spending money on or within an app, more 453 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: than six of the dollars spent on apps are going 454 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: to io s app transactions, in other words, Apple transactions. 455 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: Now that's particularly amazing because while the iPhone is popular, 456 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: Android phones out number them in the world by a 457 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: huge amount. Way more people have an Android phone than 458 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: an iPhone, but it we're seeing more people spend money 459 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: through the iOS ecosystem than through the Android ecosystem. So 460 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: while we've got way more Android apps out there in 461 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: the wild. We don't have a lot of people spending 462 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: money on apps through Android, not compared to Apple. So 463 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: this means if you're a developer and if you want 464 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: to make money off of the app you're developing, chances 465 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: are you're going to want to make something specifically for Apple. 466 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: It just makes business sense anyway. Developers have to submit 467 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: apps to Apple for approval before it will be featured 468 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: in the store. And note from Jonathan in the past, 469 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: that was a lot of app noises all at once. 470 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: I hope future Jonathan can say them without stumbling. I 471 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: like it when I leave notes to myself. Developers also 472 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: agree to keep in app transactions within the Apple ecosystem 473 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: as well, meaning you can't sneakly do an out of 474 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: app deal or a direct payment option and change things 475 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: within the app that is running on iOS. You can't 476 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: do that. You're not allowed to. You have to do 477 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: it through Apple. So we've got Fortnite, a game that 478 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: makes its money primarily through in game purchases, and we've 479 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: got Apple, a game that generates revenue largely by taking 480 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: a cut from in app purchases. I bet you can 481 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: see where I'm going here. Epic Games decided to pick 482 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: a fight with Apple, and this fight also extended to Google, 483 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: but we'll cover that as well. And this is not 484 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: an opinion. This is based on the timing of events 485 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: that the company had clearly anticipated what was going to unfold, 486 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: and I think Epic is counting on other companies to 487 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: join in the fight at some point to protest Apples cut. 488 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: But here's how it played out. On August, Epic announced 489 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: a change in the price of V bucks V as 490 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: in victory. That's the in game currency for Fortnite, so 491 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: you can think it as a virtual currency, so players 492 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: will purchase v bucks with real cash, then they can 493 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: spend the v bucks in the game itself on whatever 494 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: they want. Epic called the change of price a mega 495 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: drop and announced that in game purchases would now cost 496 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: twenty percent less than they had previously. So if you 497 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: played Fortnite on PC or on a game console, you 498 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: would see those prices reflected within the game itself. Whenever 499 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: you went to make a purchase, you would see it 500 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: at seven dollars nine cents for a thousand V bucks 501 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: instead of nine dollars and cents. But for mobile it 502 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: was a different story. Playing the game on either an 503 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: iOS or Android device would mean that when you went 504 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: to purchase v bucks, you would be presented with a choice. 505 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: One choice was to purchase the virtual currency through the 506 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: official Approved App Store or Google play Store route, and 507 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: that would also mean having to pay the older higher 508 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: price of nine dollars and cents to get that tent 509 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: marked down. You could make a direct purchase from the 510 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: Epic Games Store by passing the app Store transaction in 511 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: the process, so gamers would get that reduced price. But 512 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: while the gamers might save some money on a transaction, 513 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: there was a much bigger price to be paid. More 514 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: on that in a second, but first let's take another 515 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: quick break Epic Sidestepping the in app purchase part of 516 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: having Fortnite run on iOS and on Android was a 517 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: big no no, because that deal is codified. If you 518 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: submit an app to iOS or Android, you're doing so 519 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: with the understanding and the express agreement that you are 520 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: on board with the conditions of that deal. And one 521 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: of those conditions is that cut going to Apple or Google. 522 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: I'll just keep talking about Apple because that's really what 523 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: most of the attention is on, but just know that 524 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: a lot of this applies to Google as well. Apple 525 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: responded by removing Fortnite from their app store. Google did 526 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: the same. Apple's official response was that Epic had flagrantly 527 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: broken the rules that everyone had agreed to play by, 528 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: and that they didn't even do it by accident, and 529 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: Epic definitely did do it on purpose. The company released 530 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: a statement that said, currently there are no savings if 531 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: players use Apple and Google payment options, where Apple and 532 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: Google collect an exorbitant fee on all payments. If Apple 533 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: and Google lower their fees on payments, Epic will pass 534 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: along the savings two players. In the quote, Epic also 535 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: argued that Apple isn't consistent when it comes to applying 536 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: that thirty percent fee and pointed out the exceptions like 537 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: the right hailing companies I mentioned earlier, or food delivery 538 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: services or Amazon purchases. So Epic was saying, hey, if 539 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: these apps can use direct payments and not go through 540 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: the Apple payment process, why can't games? Why are you 541 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: holding us to a different standard than these companies. So 542 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: Apple booted Fortnite from the app store, and then Epic 543 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit against Apple and launched a media campaign 544 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: to inspire support for its argument among the public and 545 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: probably among other companies. Now, the fact that it was 546 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: ready to go with all of this pretty much proves 547 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: that Epic knew exactly what the consequences were going to 548 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: be for their actions, and in fact, we're counting on it. 549 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: The lawsuit argues that Apple has a monopoly over all 550 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: iPhone apps because the company doesn't allow users to load 551 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 1: apps from any source other than the Apple Store, and 552 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: because Apple has this cut requirement on some but not 553 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: all app transactions, Epic argues that Apple is engaging in 554 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: unfair business practices. As for the marketing side, Epic got 555 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: pretty darn cheeky with that. They created a parody of 556 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: an iconic Apple ad. So let's do a quick story 557 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: about that. Back when Apple was getting ready to unveil 558 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: the new Macintosh computer in the early eighties, the company 559 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: was determined to make a really big splash and cut 560 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: through the dominant position that was then held by IBM. 561 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: Apple had done well in the personal computer market with 562 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: the Apple two series, but IBM absolutely dominated when it 563 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: came to office computers. If you wanted a machine for 564 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: productivity and doing you know, business e type stuff, you 565 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: wanted an IBM computer plus, IBM had been getting into 566 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: the personal computer market as well, and Apple wanted to 567 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: tell the world that the Macintosh was a fundamentally different 568 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: type of computer, one with a graphic user interface or 569 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: gooey and features that the button down IBM computers just 570 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: didn't support. Apple hired on a marketing campaign, and that 571 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: campaign got hold of Ridley Scott, the film director who 572 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: directed the commercial. In the commercial, dozens of people in 573 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: sort of gray colorless outfits shamble into a room and 574 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: are seated in a dark theater to watch a big 575 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: Brother like figure spelled propaganda at them on an enormous screen. 576 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: And then an athletic woman runs into the room and 577 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: she hurls an enormous hammer that flies at the screen 578 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: and destroys it, just as the Big Brother figure is, 579 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, ranting about tyrannical ideologies. And the implication was 580 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: there that Apple was on a mission to offer a 581 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: real alternative, to prove that the IBM way of doing 582 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: things wasn't the only way to do it. And it 583 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: was a really effective commercial, one of the most famous 584 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: commercials of all time. Epic Games produced a parody of this. 585 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: They actually showed it within the game itself, but they 586 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: also released it to other video platforms, and they used 587 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: computer generated Fortnite characters to replicate the whole sequence, except 588 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: this time, the big brother figure wasn't IBM. The big 589 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: brother figure was Apple, and the woman throwing the hammer 590 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 1: would represent plucky Little Fortnite, the video game that could 591 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: plucky Little global phenomenon, billion dollar game Fortnite. And now 592 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: the message was that Apple was being the tyrannical one 593 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: by demanding this cut. If not for Apple, Epic Games 594 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: was saying companies would be able to price things at 595 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: a more affordable level for users because they wouldn't have 596 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: to build in and at markup to deal with Apple's cut. 597 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: Big bad Apple's cut meant companies had to charge more 598 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: for stuff in order to make money. Now, I admit 599 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: I'm being a little snarky, you know, I'm definitely editorial 600 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: lie sing a little here, But mostly I want to 601 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: state that from my perspective, nobody is looking particularly rosy 602 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: in this situation, and it's about to get a lot worse. 603 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: I think the industry's general approach to charging off the 604 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: top is flirting with collusion, because it's not that just 605 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: Apple that's doing it. Lots of companies are doing this 606 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: sort of thing, not that companies have necessarily all tacit. 607 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: Lee agreed that this is the way to do it, 608 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: but effectively it means there's no real competition here. Plus 609 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: with Apple, you could argue that from a pure ecosystem, 610 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: there's no way to compete at all. You have to 611 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: go through the Apple Store to have your game work 612 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: on iOS, so there is no other option. If you 613 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: take a step back, you can say, yeah, but you 614 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: could just develop games for other platforms and leave iPhone alone. 615 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: And that is true, So I guess it really just 616 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: depends on your point of view. Thank you, Obi Wan Kenobi. 617 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: But things escalated beyond Apple pulling Fortnite from the app store. 618 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: The company subsequently said that unless Epic Games reverse the 619 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: move to offer direct payments, Apple would remove all support 620 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: for Epic tools in the App Store for developers, not 621 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: just for iOS. That would mean that Epic would no 622 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: longer be able to update anything that was running on 623 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: iOS or the Mac operating system, and that includes the 624 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: Unreal game engine. Now this is where things get really nasty. 625 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 1: I'll quote the statement from Apple which says Epic wouldn't 626 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: be able to perform any quote engineering efforts to improve 627 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: hardware and software performance of Unreal Engine on Mac and 628 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: iOS hardware, optimize Unreal Engine on the Mac for creative workflows, 629 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: virtual sets and their c I slash build systems, and 630 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: adoption and support of R kit features and future VR 631 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 1: features into Unreal Engine by their XR teams end quote. Now, 632 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, hundreds of games rely on the 633 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: Unreal game Engine, not just those from Epic, but from 634 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: other companies as well. So if a company developed a 635 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: game that relied upon the Unreal Engine and they wanted 636 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,760 Speaker 1: to market it on iOS or on the Mac operating system, 637 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: that game would no longer receive any engine updates because 638 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: Apple would have cut off that capability, and that would 639 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: cause an enormous disruption among game companies and could force 640 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: developers who are working on new games to choose a 641 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: totally different game engine when they're building out their games 642 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: in the future, because it would mean that a large 643 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: market for their game would be cut off automatically if 644 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: they used the Unreal Engine. That would be an enormous 645 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: blow to Epic Games as revenue as well, because the 646 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: company makes a lot of money off of other developers 647 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: licensing the Unreal game engine. I think Apple making that 648 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: move is kind of stupid, you know what. No, No, 649 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: not kind of I think that move is monumentally stupid. Now, 650 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: the reason I think it's stupid is because it appears 651 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: to prove the point that Epic Games claims it is 652 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 1: making that Apple can and does act like a monopoly. 653 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: Because it's very hard to not interpret Apple's move as 654 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: extortion or retaliation, applying brutal leverage against Epic Games to 655 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: force it to comply with Apple's standards. Now, yes, Epic 656 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: Games agreed to those standards just through the process of 657 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: submitting Fortnite to the iOS store in the first place. 658 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:46,240 Speaker 1: So Epic is not innocent here. They did violate that agreement. However, 659 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: the retaliation and the impact of that retaliation, and the 660 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: implication that Apple could do serious harm to Epic Games 661 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: as business, as well as the business of unrelated companies, 662 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: all that seems to lend credence to Epics argument that 663 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: Apple is imposing its will on other companies. Now, it's 664 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: one thing to remove an app that's in violation of 665 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: the agreed upon policy. To me, that seems like it's 666 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: pretty clearly on the up and up, but then to 667 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: go further and remove all support for Epics products feels 668 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: extreme to me, particularly since this has a cascading effect 669 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: on other companies that did nothing wrong. All those other 670 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: companies did was licensed a game engine that powers their games. 671 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: So is it fair to make this kind of change 672 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: one that's going to have a negative impact on third 673 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: parties that had nothing to do with the dispute in 674 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: the first place. I think epics experience in launching the 675 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: game Store, which itself was a response to valves Steam 676 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: store policies, gave the company the courage to try and 677 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: launch this battle against Apple and to a lesser extent, Google. 678 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: Seeing the escalation is more than a little bit worrying. 679 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: And while the matter is going to the court system 680 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: thanks to the lawsuits, we're gonna have to wait a 681 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: while for that to play out, because, you know, we know, 682 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: the legal system moves at a let's call it a 683 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: leisurely pace compared to the worlds of technology and business, 684 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: so it might be a while before the law is 685 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: able to really wade in into this now. My bet 686 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: is that Epic is hoping that the more recent focus 687 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: on companies like Apple and Google when it comes to 688 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: antitrust issues, will provide political pressure so that the companies 689 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: can negotiate that cut, or somehow Epic can force Apple 690 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: to allow for more direct pay options. Honestly, don't know 691 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: how that's going to go for Epic. Apple is a 692 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: huge and incredibly wealthy company, and it didn't get wealthy 693 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: by capitulating to other companies. I don't think there's necessarily 694 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: a hero in this story, because it really just comes 695 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: down to money. I think Apple has behaved in ways 696 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: that are anti competitive, but when it comes to cut, 697 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: that has become fairly standard and digital stores across the board, 698 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: So it's not like Apple is being you know, greedier 699 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: than anybody else's. And granted it is not always the case. 700 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: Epic itself has set itself apart by taking smaller cuts 701 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: of transactions in the Epic Game Store, But I don't 702 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: know that you can argue that Apple stands out as 703 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: being particularly evil because of this policy. Lots of digital 704 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: stores have the exact same policy. Now, the fact that 705 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: you can only get apps on an iPhone through the 706 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: App Store without hacking your phone, that is, does make 707 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: it a little more tricky because there's nowhere else to 708 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: go when it comes to the iPhone, so I guess 709 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: that does set it apart. In fact, this is one 710 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: of the ways that things branch between Apple and Google. 711 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: You can only get apps for the iPhone through the 712 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: Apple App Store, but Android devices support a couple of 713 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: different ways you can get stuff. You can sideload stuff 714 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: that's not from the Google play Store. It requires you 715 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: to change some settings on your phone, but you can 716 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: totally do it, and Android users can download Fortnite onto 717 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: an Android device directly from Epics app launcher. Google removed 718 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: Fortnite from the play Store itself, so you can't just 719 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: download the app directly through Google Play. But you can 720 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: still get Fortnite on an Android device and you can 721 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: still run it without a problem. You just can't go 722 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: through the play Store to do it. Google, like Apple, 723 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: said that they removed the game because epics decision to 724 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: offer direct pay violated store policy. But unlike Apple, Google 725 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: hasn't gone all angry crime lord boss with threats about 726 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: Epics tools set and saying like I want the app dead, 727 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: I want the unreal engine dead, I want those s 728 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: D gays in the ground. They haven't done that recently. 729 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: Apple CEO Tim Cook appeared before Congress and he was 730 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: asked by Presentative Hank Johnson, who coincidently represents my state 731 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: of Georgia if the company had ever quote retaliated against 732 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: or disadvantaged a developer who went public with their frustrations 733 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,359 Speaker 1: with the app store end quote. Cook's response was, quote, sir, 734 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: we do not retaliate or bully people. It's strongly against 735 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: our company culture end quote. I'm not certain how well 736 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: that would go over today, as the Epic versus Apple 737 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,720 Speaker 1: saga has been unfolding again. Not to say that Epic 738 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: is without blame here, but the decision to remove epics 739 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: access to developer tools for iOS and mac os seems 740 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,959 Speaker 1: like retaliation and bullying to me. Removing Fortnite makes perfect sense. 741 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that was the the app that violated the policy. 742 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,720 Speaker 1: That makes sense to me. Removing epics ability to develop 743 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: for iOS and mac os entirely, thus impacting Epic and 744 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 1: numerous other companies aonomically that one I think is harder 745 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: to support. As I record this, we're in the very 746 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: early stages of this particular fight. At the moment, I 747 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that the US government has 748 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: a few irons in the fire right now that need 749 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,720 Speaker 1: tending to plus an election coming up, so I wouldn't 750 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 1: be surprised if it takes a little bit of time 751 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: to get around to taking another really hard look at 752 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: allegations of you know, monopoly practices or anti competitive behaviors 753 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,800 Speaker 1: in the tech space. But it's clearly something that has 754 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 1: become a growing concern and government as more practices in 755 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: the tech space are held up to scrutiny. Now this 756 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: gets complicated by the fact that Silicon Valley pours a 757 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: lot of money. I almost used a different phrase that 758 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: is not you know, family friendly, but a lot of 759 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: money into lobbyists and campaign contributions, and thus Silicon Valley 760 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 1: has a large amount of influence when it comes to 761 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: US politics. But I expect we're going to see more 762 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: are shifting as governments feel pressure to regulate or break 763 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: up or otherwise intervene in business practices in the tech space. Meanwhile, 764 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: Fortnite players who play on iPhone or Mac are likely 765 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,760 Speaker 1: watching all of this with a little bit of stress 766 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: and probably makes doing that flossing dance a lot harder. 767 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: But to be less flippant, it really is a shame 768 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: that they are caught in the middle of all this, 769 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: that those players are stuck as these two giant companies 770 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,359 Speaker 1: battle it out. They just want to play a game 771 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: that they enjoy, and they don't really have any options 772 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: as far as having an impact on this. They can 773 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: perhaps shift to playing it on a different platform, but 774 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: not everyone has that, you know, luxury. So I really 775 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,719 Speaker 1: do feel for Fortnite players, even though I personally don't 776 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: like playing Fortnite because I'm old and I don't do 777 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: well at it and it confuses me. But I hope 778 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,080 Speaker 1: that things get resolved, that the players are able to 779 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: play the games they want, and that we're able to 780 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,240 Speaker 1: take a good hard look at how these companies generate revenue, 781 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: how they price things, and really come to a good 782 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,920 Speaker 1: conclusion that works out best for all parties involved, including 783 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: us the consumers. I am skeptical that that will happen, 784 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: but I'm hopeful that wraps up this episode. If you 785 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,800 Speaker 1: guys have suggestions for any future episodes of tech Stuff, 786 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: whether it's a company, a trended technology, a specific tech 787 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 1: you want me to cover, anything like that, let me know. 788 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: Reach out to me on Twitter. The handle is text 789 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: stuff H s W and I'll talk to you again 790 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: really soon. Text Stuff is an I heart Radio production. 791 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 792 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 793 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: your favor jumps