WEBVTT - Solar Cars: The Future Now May Be Now, Almost

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone. Okay, solar cars. What does that make you

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<v Speaker 1>think of? For me, it's definitely those low flat, spaceship

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<v Speaker 1>looking cars built by universities racing on some salt flat somewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Today on Switched On, we'll take a break from COVID

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen and its impact on everything we cover and talk

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<v Speaker 1>about those solar cars. The interview is back from early

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<v Speaker 1>February where we spoke with Hugh Bromley, who leads consumer

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<v Speaker 1>behavior research for BENF, about his report titled Solar Powered

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<v Speaker 1>Cars Trickle or Charged, where in the opening line he says, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>solar powered vehicles are hitting the frequent roadways, so he'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell us to what extent they're out on the road

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<v Speaker 1>and how much of it is real and how much

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<v Speaker 1>of it is a gimmick. Being if users can get

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<v Speaker 1>this report on bf dot com to be NF mobile

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<v Speaker 1>app and the Bloomberg terminal as a reminder being if

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<v Speaker 1>does not provide investment or strategy advice, and you can

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<v Speaker 1>hear the full disclaimer at the end of the show

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<v Speaker 1>him Mark Taylor, and you're listening to switch on to

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<v Speaker 1>BENF podcast. Now, Hugh, why are we studying solar powered cars?

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<v Speaker 1>Solar powered cars from a long tiving bunched in with

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<v Speaker 1>all the other absurd concepts like solar powered roads. Is

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<v Speaker 1>it a solar powered car? Is it solar on a car.

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<v Speaker 1>We're starting to see some big, big automotive brands put

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<v Speaker 1>solar into their vehicles. In some cases it's just there

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<v Speaker 1>to appeal to some new buyer, but in other cases

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<v Speaker 1>it could make a little bit of a difference to

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<v Speaker 1>your ev range. But there's lots of IFFs there. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so this is not a new idea, is it. No,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not. I mean I remember in Colors drive you

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<v Speaker 1>around and beat up old auti that had solar cells

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<v Speaker 1>in its sun roof, So they've been out there. The

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<v Speaker 1>first generation Leaf had a little solar cell and its

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<v Speaker 1>back spoiler. So the idea you point out in the

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<v Speaker 1>note has actually been around since the late fifties. They

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<v Speaker 1>call it bottled up solar energy that would soon be

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<v Speaker 1>driving people around, right, Yeah, And this kind of Jetson's

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<v Speaker 1>idea that we'd soon have these levitating vehicles driven by

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<v Speaker 1>solar and judging up batteries to get you around. There's

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<v Speaker 1>always been something coming, right, but it's only really now

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<v Speaker 1>that we've seen this shift to us for k I,

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<v Speaker 1>he's hitting the streets that it's more than that gimmick

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<v Speaker 1>that sits in your sunroof and maybe charges your starter battery,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe runs a fan in your cabin. And now it's

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<v Speaker 1>actually something you can do that's helpful, that's practical, and

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<v Speaker 1>that that's to to charge you attraction battery. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>go through that. So there are three main types of implementation.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you list those out for us? The first one

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<v Speaker 1>is those auxiliary panels, and those ones are basically gimmick.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just trickle charging your starter a motor, or it

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<v Speaker 1>might be running a ventilation fan. Does that mean though,

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<v Speaker 1>if your battery diet and you needed a jump, you

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<v Speaker 1>could rely on solar power maybe eventually if you waited

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<v Speaker 1>a few days and came back, maybe then maybe then

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<v Speaker 1>you get going again. The second one is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>what I call supplementary. So these are now connected to

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<v Speaker 1>your attraction battery, but they're pretty small, so it might

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<v Speaker 1>only be giving you a couple of miles a day

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<v Speaker 1>of range at best, and might be still the size

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<v Speaker 1>of just the sun roof for a little bit bigger.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have the dream, which is to be

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<v Speaker 1>a primarily solar powered vehicle. There's a couple of startups

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<v Speaker 1>that have pretty promising products. There's one start in particular,

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<v Speaker 1>a company called light Year and then Model the light

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<v Speaker 1>Year one out of the Netherlands, and that's a concept

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<v Speaker 1>to the moment, but they're looking to go into production

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<v Speaker 1>in the next couple of years. And that's a vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>that won't be exclusively solar powered, but it will be

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<v Speaker 1>potentially primarily solo powered, depending on how you use it.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're currently just the medals taking pre orders, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're about to open up the US office. They're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get their price down to the less than half

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<v Speaker 1>aware it is now. You know, if all these things

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<v Speaker 1>fall into place, it doesn't just put solar into a vehicle,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually changes a lot of the vehicle designed to

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<v Speaker 1>to make it kind of supportive of that new drive train.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's go into that supplementary power a bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>You said there's two main benefits to it, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>outline these already, but to boost the range for one

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<v Speaker 1>and two to reduce the time spent charging. Now to me,

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<v Speaker 1>they seem kind of mutually exclusive, right that if you're

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<v Speaker 1>using the power of the sun to extend your range.

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<v Speaker 1>You're using that to add power to your battery, you're

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<v Speaker 1>using that power to drive, so you're still gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>spending as much time at the charging station as you would.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't seem quite a work for me. Well, I

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<v Speaker 1>think the average American now drives about thirty miles a day, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So these little sun routs are not going to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>They're going to do a tenth that that you might

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<v Speaker 1>get two to five miles out of it, depending on

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<v Speaker 1>on the size of the array and the size of

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<v Speaker 1>the vehicle. So it really is only just topping it up.

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<v Speaker 1>But that means you might only need to visit the

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<v Speaker 1>charging station for ten minutes less. Or you know, if

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<v Speaker 1>it's a car that you don't use every day and

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<v Speaker 1>sits on the street gathering sunlight, you know, throughout the week,

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<v Speaker 1>and then on the weekends, you know, you might want

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<v Speaker 1>to make a run out of town. It can kind

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<v Speaker 1>of accumulate over time, so it's not a game change.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe the flip side is there are users who

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<v Speaker 1>do just pot around town and don't go very far,

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<v Speaker 1>and this could make a difference for them. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>there to totally replace your charging network or your home

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<v Speaker 1>charging by any means, it's just a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>extra juice. You think about share cars, they sit on

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<v Speaker 1>the street all day or all the time and often

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<v Speaker 1>don't go very far, in which case they could just

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<v Speaker 1>be there. It's sucking up sunlight as well. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about the numbers. So they can extend the

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<v Speaker 1>range a couple of miles for a sunroof based array,

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<v Speaker 1>but for a bigger array for your whole roof. How

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<v Speaker 1>far are we talking? How big is the array? Supplementary

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<v Speaker 1>vehicles for there's two on the market globally that are

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<v Speaker 1>connected to the traction batteries. It's on the Toyota Prime,

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<v Speaker 1>they're not not in the US models, and on the

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<v Speaker 1>Sonata Hybrid. The Preyers can get about three and a

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<v Speaker 1>half k's of of additional range. The company says two

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<v Speaker 1>miles to day of additional range. It's not huge, that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's only a smaller rates whats so you know that's

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<v Speaker 1>like putting half of solar panel on your roof basically,

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<v Speaker 1>and give us some context, how big is a ray

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<v Speaker 1>on a rooftop? Between four and seven or eight killer

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<v Speaker 1>what's on your roof? So you know this is tiny?

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<v Speaker 1>You know and how to get these the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>are just that are touched to hybrid. What's okay? So

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<v Speaker 1>quite a bit smaller, quite a bit smaller. You might

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<v Speaker 1>put twenty panels in your roof. This is half a

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<v Speaker 1>panel that you're putting on your car. And spaces is

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<v Speaker 1>a limiting factor here, right, But actually what you're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>in there's this company's son No in Germany, and they're

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<v Speaker 1>not just filling up the roof, but they're starting to

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<v Speaker 1>fill up the body panels as well. Or at the

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<v Speaker 1>point where solar is cheap enough that you don't need

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<v Speaker 1>to orientate it perfectly. You just want to suck up

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<v Speaker 1>all that diffuse slide as well and get the extra miles.

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<v Speaker 1>You spoke at the BNF summit not too long ago

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<v Speaker 1>in San Francisco a bit about foreigm factor in electric vehicles,

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<v Speaker 1>how looks actually matter? Would you drive a car with

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<v Speaker 1>solar cells all around it? I love the idea as

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<v Speaker 1>a former solar analyst, but I think the real challenge

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<v Speaker 1>for me is the premium you're going to pay. The

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<v Speaker 1>soul is actually not worth a lot here. There maybe

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<v Speaker 1>only a hundred dollars with the solar cells that go

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<v Speaker 1>into one of these roofs, but you're probably talking about

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<v Speaker 1>a one thousand to even three thousand dollar premium on

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<v Speaker 1>these vehicles. And the big factor there is the glass

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<v Speaker 1>that encapsulates the solar cell. That's not that different to

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<v Speaker 1>what you'd pay for a full panoramic sunroof on your

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle anyway, but in which case you get to bask

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<v Speaker 1>in all the lights and everything else. So the idea is,

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<v Speaker 1>are you going to pay a premium for that big

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<v Speaker 1>glass roof and then you're going to take away the

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<v Speaker 1>benefits of it by covering and solar Yeah, And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if that appeals to all that many people,

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<v Speaker 1>but there'll be something. I'm hesitating here because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what I would do. I'm not sure if I

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<v Speaker 1>would want to drive one it's covered in solar panels.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it might be

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<v Speaker 1>more likely that you see this going into the body panels.

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<v Speaker 1>Then it doesn't interfere with your comfort level, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't get quite as much power out of it,

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<v Speaker 1>it's okay. The solar panels are dirt cheap. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned Hyundai, you mentioned Toyota, So no, no, and

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<v Speaker 1>late year who else is thinking about this or is

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<v Speaker 1>involved in it. The other one that's been out there

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time is actually Karma the Fiska Karma

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<v Speaker 1>had a solar panel in its roof that was only

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<v Speaker 1>run for about eighteen months. That original system wasn't hooked

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<v Speaker 1>up to the traction battery though it's a plug in hybrid,

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<v Speaker 1>but the solar panel only power a fan in the cabin. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>the new version has a bigger solar panel and actually

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<v Speaker 1>againt the traction battery now, so it does make a difference,

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<v Speaker 1>albeit on a vehicle that's not really designed for efficiency

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<v Speaker 1>there for power, what do you see for those types

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<v Speaker 1>of companies? Do you see them making it on their own,

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<v Speaker 1>being bought by a bigger automaker, or just going under. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>at the moment, they're doing a lot of it themselves

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<v Speaker 1>or through partnerships with specially firm. So, for example, the

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<v Speaker 1>Sono sign is going to be manufactured in Sweden what

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<v Speaker 1>is now an electric vehicle hub at a former SAD plant.

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<v Speaker 1>The light Year one has just announced that we outsourcing

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<v Speaker 1>production to a partner, not doing it themselves. But what's

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting is always innovations occurring. We're seeing these startups

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<v Speaker 1>that have pretty cool technology may not scale, but even

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<v Speaker 1>the technology within the vehicle itself, embedding the cell into

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<v Speaker 1>the panels, and the automakers haven't touched it. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>automakers that have either of you partner directly with them

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<v Speaker 1>or put funds in or participated in the venture rounds.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually there could be something here. They're getting pre

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<v Speaker 1>orders that aren't insignificant. Do you think the big iteomakers

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<v Speaker 1>are missing it or just not paying attention. I suspect

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<v Speaker 1>it's mostly not paying attention. There have been automakers that

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<v Speaker 1>have tried and been burnt by Solar in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>Because in your report you have a chart in there

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<v Speaker 1>that shows our top ten automakers have at least considered

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<v Speaker 1>this or tried it in some way. What's holding them

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<v Speaker 1>all back? Everyone has right or the automakers were either

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<v Speaker 1>involved in one of the university racing teams or their

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<v Speaker 1>engineers and designers wanted to put it in a roof.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing is made in his production outside of the turn

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<v Speaker 1>and they on the model and these really old autias

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<v Speaker 1>and masters. I'm a little bit surprised that hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>a bit more speculation on this, even the solar industry

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<v Speaker 1>is not quite are yet. They're selling normal cells into

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<v Speaker 1>into these manufacturers rather than being involved themselves. But that

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<v Speaker 1>could change, it seems in electric vehicles. You know one

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<v Speaker 1>thing that has always been the thing that is making

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<v Speaker 1>a difference, but not as talked about it is delivery

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<v Speaker 1>vehicles or freight or something like that. This seems to

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<v Speaker 1>be a perfect application for delivery vehicles as well. Putting

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<v Speaker 1>solar rays on panel vans maybe, but I think at

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<v Speaker 1>the price point I said before, you know, one of

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<v Speaker 1>three thousand dollars, it's not going to pay itself back. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So if you if you suddenly translate this to a

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<v Speaker 1>more rational consumer, it probably doesn't make sense. We have

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<v Speaker 1>seen companies wrap bus roots and pannier vans in thin

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<v Speaker 1>film solar in the past. Those haven't gone all that

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<v Speaker 1>far from a mixture of bad technology, choice and questionable vendors.

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<v Speaker 1>But if the economics could stack up there, you're right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's an application that might make more sense. They're on

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<v Speaker 1>the road, they're exposed, they're not parked on the crown.

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<v Speaker 1>There's more opportunity potentially. Okay, So why this why now?

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<v Speaker 1>Why is this picking up at all? So one reason

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<v Speaker 1>is just that solar is very cheer, but that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>really explain it. There's been no solar breakthrough that suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>it makes sense. In vehicles again, these companies are using

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<v Speaker 1>solar cells that are basically the same that are going

0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.720
<v Speaker 1>on your roof into the field. What's really different is

0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.280
<v Speaker 1>that one we have electric vehicles on the road, and secondly,

0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 1>those electric vehicles are becoming much more efficient that you

0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.560
<v Speaker 1>can go a whole lot further on a killed hour

0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of stored energy now you could a few years ago.

0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.640
<v Speaker 1>And that means that if you have solar cells becoming

0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more efficient and cars becoming a whole

0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.400
<v Speaker 1>lot more efficient, those solar panels suddenly make a bigger difference.

0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.080
<v Speaker 1>And also varies depending on the vehicle. Right, So the

0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.200
<v Speaker 1>plug in hybrids tend to be less electrically efficient than

0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.560
<v Speaker 1>a full electric vehicle, so you won't get as much

0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.520
<v Speaker 1>bank for your solar cell on a on a plug

0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:39.959
<v Speaker 1>in hybrid as you would on a on a full

0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.439
<v Speaker 1>electric vehicle. So this is on the margins. Do you

0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.320
<v Speaker 1>think it will stay in the margins? You'll we'll start

0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to see them on our cars in the near future.

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.079
<v Speaker 1>I think we're going to see more just because we're

0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:50.559
<v Speaker 1>at the point where like, why not, you know, you're

0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.800
<v Speaker 1>talking about a hundred bucks of solar on a forty

0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.400
<v Speaker 1>fifty dollar vehicle. Why not? TESL has been the real

0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.640
<v Speaker 1>absent name here for a long time. But once they're

0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.000
<v Speaker 1>cann put on the Model three, then and happen. There's

0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.079
<v Speaker 1>now an announcement that it will go on the cyber truck.

0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:09.200
<v Speaker 1>May or may not happen. I believe must Well, it's

0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.120
<v Speaker 1>going to be its own roof and potentially these big

0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.480
<v Speaker 1>flap out panels, so that would be different. But I

0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.480
<v Speaker 1>think we'll continue to see it as an option in

0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.200
<v Speaker 1>cars that have panoramic some roofs anyway, But I'm not

0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.160
<v Speaker 1>sure how big the addressing market is for how many

0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.920
<v Speaker 1>customers actually want to sacrifice some they're a light in

0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.200
<v Speaker 1>order to get solar panels and not get a discount

0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.440
<v Speaker 1>for that. But if things move a little bit further

0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.120
<v Speaker 1>and it's integrated into body panels, into your front hood

0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.240
<v Speaker 1>or your side panels at the right price, it delivers

0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 1>some benefit. It doesn't take you off the grid. It

0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean you're going to run out of juice five

0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.360
<v Speaker 1>kilometers down the road and have to pull over and

0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.240
<v Speaker 1>wait three days for a recharge. It just means that

0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.280
<v Speaker 1>you have that little bit extra of free range every day.

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.839
<v Speaker 1>I'll take it. I'll take free range. That sounds great.

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Thanks you, Thanks for coming in, No problem, Bloomberg. Any

0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.880
<v Speaker 1>app is It's vice provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and

0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.760
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0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.120
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0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.360
<v Speaker 1>recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg an

0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.959
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0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.240
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