WEBVTT - Using AI to Explain Stock Moves 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.360 Welcome to Wako's Up, a weekly markets podcast. Humble Dona 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.720 Hire a market supporter with Bloomberg. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.799 And I'm Katie Greifeld. Mike Reagan is off this week. 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.079 I'm so happy to have you here. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:23.960 Yeah, thank god. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.479 But first, Katie, it's been a really long time since 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.920 you've been on the podcast. I want to loll youoateral years, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.280 not literal, No, it actually no literal. 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.360 But I'm thrilled to be here because it feels like 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:35.440 there's a lot to talk about. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.600 There is, but I'm gonna put you on the spot first. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:38.040 Okay. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.519 I want you to tell the audience something about you 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.360 that nobody knows, not even your husband. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.199 Oh no, I mean I don't think there's anything I 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.720 would say. I am extremely afraid of the dark. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:53.040 I knew that. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.040 Yeah, we are in a bit of a dark home. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:56.080 It has black walls. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.120 No, it's just like when you're in maybe a room 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.040 or your house saloon and the lights go out. I 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:02.840 hate that. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:03.960 That's not a secret. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.959 I'm media trained enough, don't you don't do. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:07.880 That secret. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:09.640 Anyway. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.959 Artificial intelligence is all the hype on Wall Street these days, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.000 and we have some strategists even seeing AI trends driving 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.160 further gains for stocks. Now one company is looking to 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:24.080 analyze US equity market trends using AI technology to project 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.200 in real time why stocks might be moving, and its 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.240 founder is joining us today. Gets Yen's Nordvic. He's the 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.800 co founder and CEO of Market Reader, and he's also 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.279 the founder and CEO of ex Anti Data. So, YenS, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.440 thank you so much for joining us. I told so 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.120 many people you were going to be on the podcast, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:44.720 and everybody's like, oh my god, I know him. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:46.640 It was crazy that there was a line of people 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.360 when I came into the building. What's going on here? 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:50.720 Yeah, there was literally a lot of people. They were like, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.720 I would like to meet him, and so that's why 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:53.160 we were like. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.240 I was thrilled that Mike Reagan happened to be off 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.160 this week because I haven't talked to you in years. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.160 But we go back. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.960 I have been doing surveillance in the morning, probably forty times, 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.720 but I've not been in the office. This office I've 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.919 not been to I think since nineteen So it was weird, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:12.560 but it's still the same building at least. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.920 Oh yeah, it feels like Mike Reagan also hasn't been 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:20.200 in this office. Okay, so again, just to start, Katie 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.560 knows you. All these people I talk to know you, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.480 but maybe just tell our audience a little bit about you. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.400 I started my career being a currency strategist to Goldman 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.600 and then I was a currency strategist at Bridgeward Associates. 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.079 I was head of research. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.320 At the More Securities, and then in sixteen I founded 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:41.000 a company called Exante Data where we advise institutional investors 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.000 on what's going on in the world using a lot 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.359 of data. And that's the sort of background. But really 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.040 the reason why I invite me in today is that 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.160 we have a new company called market Reader, where we 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.760 use latest technology to really crunch data in real time 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.480 and explain why the market is moving. So if you 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.560 have a stock that's gapping down, market readers should be 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.840 able to tell you why using all the different techniques 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.240 that like a top hedge fund would also be using, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.280 but all programmed and a piece of software something that 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:12.880 everybody reader should be able to use. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.520 And are you also afraid of the dark? 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:15.679 Not? 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.640 Not really, but this room is a little bit scary. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.240 It is one of the blackest rooms I've seen. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.160 Yeah, it's pretty cool. I don't know, it's just you know, 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.040 when the lights go out, you don't know where everything is. Yeah, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.040 I like to know in any case, So market reader, 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.400 so you say that this is theoretically similar to what 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.920 a hedge fund would be doing. Who is your client then? 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:37.880 Is it hedge funds? 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.120 This is my biggest problem with the market reader that 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.000 I think it's literally for everybody, So everybody else wants to, Oh, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.320 who's your target audience? 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:45.840 Who is it? 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.880 I think it could be used by a hedge fund 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.600 manager or an asset manager, but it could also be used 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.800 by somebody who has, you know, a savings account and 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.680 investing on their own and they've maybe lost some money 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.640 and made some money. They want to know why so 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:04.119 they can good decisions. So this could be used by everybody, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.040 Like I have a company where we cater to like 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.960 a niche audience of institutional investors. Right, the whole goal 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.400 of market reader is to do something for millions of users. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.000 Really like have a tool that everybody can use. 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.120 And I have to say the AI aspect actually has 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.200 turned out to be very important in that regard, right, 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:28.400 because we have complex models that generate the results, but 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.000 the AI, the language processing, really allows us to present 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.320 that in a very easy to understand way, right, a 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.240 couple of lines of text saying Okay, this is really 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.080 what you need to know about this stock or this ETF. 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.320 And if it's just like you know, model output, it 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.440 would actually be kind of hard to digest. So the 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.520 AI technology has really allowed us to present stuff in 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:49.880 an easier to digest way. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.080 Okay, so talk more about the AI aspect, because that 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.440 part obviously is super interesting to a lot of people 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.960 these days. But how even does market reader work? And 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:03.279 I know you won't spill the secret sauce I suppose 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.400 I could call it, but just like, give us an 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.680 overview of how it works, what it does, and how 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:08.599 the AI plays it. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.720 I will give an example. Right, So, one of the 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.920 inputs into our system is literally everything that's going on 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.680 on social media. We so ingest a lot of data, right, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.400 but if you look at everything that's going on on Twitter, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.080 for example, there's a lot of stuff that is not 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.599 that relevant, a lot of stuff that is fairly noisy. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:25.840 Right. 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.080 So one of the ways we can apply AI is 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.120 to literally say, is this a high quality tweet that 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.760 we should consider? Is this a low quality maybe even 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:41.600 inappropriate tweet right, and that process is extremely powerful, extremely powerful. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.640 So there's sort of analytical aspect, but there's also as 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.200 a set before in presentational aspect when you then have 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.080 all the results from all the different fundamental models, just 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.640 summarizing in a way where the human can actually understand. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:55.239 It very quickly. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.960 It's very hard to get like how should we call 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.560 it mechanical robot to do it? But the possibilities you 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.159 have within different AI tools such as chet GPT to 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.200 really generate text that is what should we call it, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:13.280 like digestible but also appetizing is something new and give 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:14.360 some new opportunities. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.480 And that's what I wanted to sort of hone in 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.680 on on the new part, because you know, describing you know, 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.880 scraping social media that necessarily isn't new, but it sounds 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.040 like it's the step further turning that into text that 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.520 kind of makes sense and you can read and is 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.720 pleasant to look at. Am I understanding that correctly. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.320 There's many ways we use AI, but two good examples 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.600 would be the filtering itself, Like we can actually use 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.320 the language models to say, okay, is this the type 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.320 of content we want to look at it all? So 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.960 it can kind of look as a filtering mechanism, right. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.839 And then there's a further step that is close to 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.239 where the user gets the output, where we essentially, okay, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.280 present all this model output in a way where it's 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.880 easy to digest in one second. Right, there's those two 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:57.680 aspects of it. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:58.080 Okay. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.359 And then let's say I ran an analysis on some 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.520 stock and then I got the little paragraph, Right, what 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.960 do I then do with that information? What does the 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:09.880 typical client do? 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.680 It could be used by financial advisor, right, Like if 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.960 financial advisor has fifty stocks that his clients are following, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.680 you can very quickly get a gist of Okay, that 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.800 client just lost five percent, and now I know why. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.760 I can tell him if he calls, right, so it 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.320 can be used for that. Actually was last week nowadays 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.400 of passing fast, we had Madona was popping again. Like 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.320 in the old days vaccine stocks, and I used to 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.200 do a lot of COVID forecasting, but it's not a 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:35.560 big part of our process anymore. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:36.600 It does move marketing. 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.640 Would Madanna moved ten percent very quickly, and it popped 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.320 up in our system, right, And the reason was there 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.400 was actually a new wave of COVID in China that 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.160 I had not known like, so even though I've been 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.280 doing this for three years now, it actually showed me 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.120 something where I said, Okay, go and look at that, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.120 and then we want to analyze the COVID data as well. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:55.800 There was a spike. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.040 We didn't think it was enough to worry about, but 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.560 it can actually allert you to stuff happen that you're 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:01.600 otherwise not aware of. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.000 Audience can't see us. But I went whow because I 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:07.480 hadn't heard that COVID news either. 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:07.880 Yeah. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.240 No, and I like, we're known for literally like tracking 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.160 COVID like that. We have clients that came to us 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.960 in the COVID crisis, So it was kind of interesting 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.320 to see that example. Like obviously the Silicon Valley bank 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.800 situation that everybody knows about is another one where the 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.360 system was very helpful. Say okay on that Wednesday night, Okay, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.920 there's something happening here. It's because of the announcement they 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.640 made about the bond says. By the way, First Republic 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.560 is also doing something it's not supposed to do on 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.719 Wednesday night. And those are instruments. I'm not used to 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.320 having those instruments on my screen. I'm traditionally currency guy. Right, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.760 if there's something happening with the Euro, I'll have it 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.560 on my screen. But all those smallest stocks I don't have. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:48.880 Right. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.120 So having a system that can monitor everything that's going 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.080 on in the US equity market eleven thousand instruments and 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.280 pick out what should you focus on now gives you. 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.440 A really anability to absorb more information. 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.960 And so it's the US equity market, right, that's the 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.200 only asset class right now. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.160 We want to do everything. So at the moment in 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.839 the system, we have US stocks ad rs like foreign 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.800 companies that are listed here ETFs that will cover the macroangle, right, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.559 but we want to do literally every single financial instruments. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.280 So give us a few weeks, few months, we will 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:19.720 have that done. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.040 You have a few weeks, a few weeks, we'll give 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.199 you two weeks, yeah, two weeks, and then we'll check 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.319 back in. So it creates this text that you can 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:33.160 actually read. It doesn't necessarily issue like a buy sell recommendation. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.120 No, So we call it market reader very intentionally, like 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:42.040 we want it to really generate information that describes what's 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.199 going on. I'm sure there's going to be quant funds 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.200 and so forth. That can use the data set that 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.480 we're generating to create their own signals and outph and 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.520 so forth. But we want this to be for a 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.080 lot of people, and the purpose of our company is 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.520 to explain in a very objective, very precise way what's 0:09:58.520 --> 0:09:58.840 going on. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:09.079 Right, Okay, So is it fortuitous or maybe lucky is 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.600 the right word that you're that you started using AI 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.760 to do this and now AI is the big thing? 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.679 Or was it the case that even a couple of 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.120 years ago you thought to yourself, AI is going to 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.559 be the next big thing, so I'm going to incorporate 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:22.640 it into my strategy. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.800 I think what's happened this year is that actually applying 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.760 AI has become so much easier than it was six 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.280 months ago or twelve months ago, Right, So the hurdle 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.760 to really embedding it in a system has been lowered 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.719 so much so. Our original plan was more focused on 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.880 structural modeling, traditional fundamental modeling, but we've really seen how 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.240 this actually allows us to do stuff that we just 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:47.720 can't do with traditional models. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.160 So it's very it's. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:52.800 Very rewarding to actually see that you can take the 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:53.959 technology step further. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.920 I haven't really curious. I mean, my question at the 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.559 outset was who is this for? I'm curious about how 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.360 you market something like this because obviously, with AI being 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.960 the hot topic, there's going to be a lot of 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.360 snake oil out there, and obviously you have a track 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.080 record well respected. But when you're you're pitching this, I mean, 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.480 what does that pitch sound like? Especially when I'm sure 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.280 there's a lot of pitches out there right now. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.160 If I'm gonna describe it very simply, is that we 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:28.199 don't have any garbage. Like when you look at financial markets, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.400 they are so complex, like trying to figure out how 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.160 they linked, how processed correlations work, like one thing moves 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.000 the other and so forth, it's very easy to get 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.439 information overload and get like false positives effectively. Right, So 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.520 I think what our system is very good at is 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.960 to really cut down to what really matters and have 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.120 almost no noise, no garbage. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:51.160 In the feed. 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.839 And I think that's what we've seen, Like once in 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.959 a while there's an AI tool that pops up with 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.160 the headlines, oh that sounds like market reader, and then 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.640 we see what is surfaced. Right, if you're just letting 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:08.720 the AI technology lose without you know, strict control of it, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.839 it's going to find a lot of garbage and it's 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.320 going to become from it. For a financial market participant, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.839 it's going to become not just useless, but like a 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.400 total waste of time, right, because it gives you information 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.400 that you don't want. So getting rid of the garbage 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.040 is very important. Also, if you think about if you 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.120 want to have alerts coming out from this thing, like 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.000 you don't want to get woken up at night because 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.360 there's something happened that is totally relevant. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.120 For your portfolios. So getting rid of the garbage is cool. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.439 So if you feel, if you feel that you can 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.360 feed chat, GPT or whatever AI technology with something that 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.600 is gold, right, then you're also going to get something 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:44.679 that's very valuable out. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.199 So we had this great headline at Bloomberg this week 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.760 that said hedge funds are deploying chat gipt to handle 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.400 all the gruntwork. So I'm just curious how else you 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.320 see AI being deployed on Wall Street? Like, how are 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:57.320 companies using it? 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.160 I think a lot of hedge funds, a lot of 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.199 asset managers, and I've spoken too many about this over 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.520 the last couple of weeks, right, they all thinking about 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.120 how to go about doing this. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:07.560 I think we're. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.040 Still pretty early. We're still pretty early they're thinking about it. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.120 I don't think this is something that has cost job 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:15.920 losses already. It's almost like in the short term is 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.520 almost the opposite, right, There has to be some investments 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.600 made in this field to harvest the benefit. But it's 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.400 gonna take a little while before we have matured to 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.720 a degree where it's actually gonna like substitute for some people. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.040 I think, I like, how you. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:35.120 Thought garbage was a bad word. Yeah, right, we say 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:35.800 garbage here? 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.640 Are you gonna name names some people here? So in 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.319 talking about AI in this conversation, I mean, it seems 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.080 like we're talking about language processing. We're talking about generative AI, 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:53.400 not necessarily like machine learning. Because I'm pretty new to AI, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.280 obviously interested in it, covered a lot, talk about it 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.400 a lot, But when it comes to investing, it seems 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.280 like there's this dichotomy here that you know, there's sort 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.720 of the text based AI, and then there's like machine learning. 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.720 Maybe you run a model a bunch and bunch a 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.439 bunch of times and it gets a little bit better 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.160 each time. You're firmly situated. It seems like in the 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:14.199 text based AI. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.240 In the end, we will have the world kind of 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:23.680 past in a new way, right because we're gonna have 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.640 costal explanations for everything, and we're going to have a 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.320 very high frequency data set that has those costal explanations 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:31.040 attached to it. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:31.960 Right. 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.200 So with that proprietary data set, you can take the 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.720 next step and say, okay, let's do some machine learning 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.920 on that. Figure out Okay, where are the alpha streams? 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:41.160 Right? 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.160 So I'm not planning to do that internally. I don't 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.720 have an aspiration to become an asset manager. We want 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.280 to help other asset managers do that, but there will 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:50.600 be that element to it as well. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.800 So it's also interesting talking to you because you know, 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.520 you ran through your resume you were in analystic goldmans 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.760 or analysts. I don't know if you get picky about you. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.200 Know, some people call it economists, but some people don't 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.280 like that, so, uh, strategists, some people like better. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:08.960 We can choose whatever you like. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.880 So you were a strategist at Goldvin, you were a 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.640 strategist at Nomura. Are you basically trying to put past 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.640 versions of yourself out of business? Is what you're you're doing? 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.880 What market reader does does that sort of displace the 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.920 traditional research analyst. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.520 Within Excante Data, we have a Bloomberg chat right where 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.120 we talk to top institutional investors around the world around. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:35.400 You don't talk to us, though. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.680 If you want to pay, maybe you can get involved 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.000 in the chat, But this is like people pay for 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.560 that service, right, and we have an intense discussion about stuff. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.400 To answer your question, right, It's totally possible that some 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.160 of the content that is there could be done by 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.480 a robot version of one of my team members or 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:01.280 a robot version of myself, and we definitely think about that. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.080 We can also think about using essentially the market reader 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.440 technology to do aspects of what we do for the 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.240 Exante Data clients. This is going to be fun stuff 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.960 and maybe we can do analysis that we otherwise wouldn't do. 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.760 Maybe there's some analysis we don't like to do that 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:17.600 we find boring, that we give to the role what 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.080 to do, and then we have more time to do 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:19.880 some fun stuff. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.680 And we can't let you go because of this Wall 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.560 Street background of yours without you sharing some thoughts on 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.640 what you're actually seeing in terms of markets. I think 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.760 you're looking at global growth slowing down. What evidence are 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.160 you looking at and just what are your thoughts, probably 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:40.280 speaking on everything that's going on with global economies and markets. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.400 Yeah, we crunch a lot of data. So for China, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.920 we essentially have a rule that we try not to 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.160 look at official data because we think it is since 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.840 we're allowed to use the word garbage. So we use 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.280 our own alternative data to have a sense of what's 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.800 going on in the Chinese economy. And we've had pretty 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.520 weak signals since the end of March. Right now it's 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.000 showing up in the official data while least the PMIS 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.399 will a lag. So this is an important thing for 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.600 the global economy, right, because other economies when they've reopened, 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.760 it was a multi quarter process with a booming economy, right, 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.600 And in China's case, it looks like they had one 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.840 quarter of better growth and now they're slowing already, right, 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:24.879 So that's the negative surprise for a lot of people. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.280 Do you want to talk about assets as well? 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.600 Yeah, we love assets, So. 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.800 I think this is interesting about psychology in the market. Right, 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:39.040 We've had this whole wave of let's focus on the 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.360 dollar being doomed, that we're going to dedollarize and so forth, right, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.680 and then you look at what's actually happening in the market, right, 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:51.040 and the currency that in the narrative is perceived to 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.880 be the new alternative to the dollar, the Chinese currency see, 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.680 and why it's literally going weaker every day, not every 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.280 single but if you look at the chat since January, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.800 there are so few strengthening days, right, and we just 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.159 have a long trend now of dollar gains and c 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.160 andhy weakness. It's just so interesting, right that you can 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.840 have a disconnect between a narrative that if you read 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.919 all those stories, it look like, okay, the dollar's going 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.960 to die tomorrow, right, and then you look at what's 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.000 actually going on in the market, and the CNY. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:23.760 Is having trouble. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.120 Literally you can look at a lot of capital flow 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.080 data as well, but they're just in the price actions. 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:46.919 It's just stunning, well that, I mean deja vu again. 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.080 I first met yen's because I was a currency reporter 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.720 and I was obsessed with that theme in like twenty seventeen, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.400 twenty eighteen, Oh my gosh, when will do you want 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.359 displace the dollar as the global reserve currency? And I 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:00.919 think some and said to me, I don't think it 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.959 was you like you will write this story every five years, 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.359 like it becomes a narrative and then it dies, like 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.040 nothing will displace the dollar. And it feels like we're 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.879 in that part of the arc again where people are 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.400 realizing that, Okay, the dollar's not going anywhere. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.600 I get so many questions on it that I actually wrote. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.679