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Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Adamized Studios.

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Speaker 2: Last week I spelled on a paddle with Vanessa king

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Speaker 2: Or celebrating International Women's Day. Listening to Vanessa that evening,

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Speaker 2: it became apparent that it really wasn't necessary for the

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Speaker 2: rest of us to be there. It was her views

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Speaker 2: on social justice, women in business, creativity and leadership that

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Speaker 2: everybody wanted to hear, most of all me. Her path

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Speaker 2: towards Chief Business Officer of Conde Nasty International is a

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Speaker 2: story of a young girl from Kenya a chieving remarkable

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Speaker 2: amount in a British world through sheer, intelligence, motivation and determination.

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Speaker 2: This we all know, but for me, the revelation was

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Speaker 2: when Vanessa began talking about the food of her family,

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Speaker 2: her culture, especially the cooking of her grandmother. Today we're

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Speaker 2: here together to hear more about memory and food, change

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Speaker 2: and connectivity. As always, I will listen with awe, with

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Speaker 2: love and deep admiration the recipe that you chose. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you love artichokes.

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Speaker 3: I love artichokes and I love that you can only

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Speaker 3: have them for a certain time in the year properly,

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Speaker 3: and Italians do them incredibly well. I hope I pronounced

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Speaker 3: this correctly, but it's for Carchoffi ala Piperno. You wanted

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Speaker 3: to explain a little bit about the Piperno element.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, carcioffi. They're also called karchoffi, which

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Speaker 2: is a word for artichoke in Italian ala Judea. And

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Speaker 2: there's an area of Rome which is called the Jewish Quarter,

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Speaker 2: which I suppose, like in many Italian cities, was a ghetto,

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Speaker 2: and it's right near the Colisseum. And there's a restaurant

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Speaker 2: there called piper Now and Richard and I used to

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Speaker 2: go there. It's on the top of a little hill

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Speaker 2: and you actually can overlook the cabin Ilia and it's

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Speaker 2: just a great little restaurant. And like a lot of

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Speaker 2: Italian restaurants, you go there for one reason and yeah,

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Speaker 2: one dish. And so there it's the artichokes dala Judea.

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Speaker 2: And we call them for the cookbook artichokes al Peperna,

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Speaker 2: because that's the name of the restaurant. Yeah it's good.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, get ready to be absolutely swarmed with exactly.

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Speaker 2: It might not be there anymore.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So this recipe serves six.

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Speaker 3: You need twelve reminiscent art chokes, sunflower oil, sea salt,

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Speaker 3: and black pepper, and three large lemons. Right, so, you

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Speaker 3: heat the oil to one hundred degrees in your deep fryer.

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Speaker 4: You need to have a deep fryer.

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Speaker 2: First of all, well, you can use a large saucepan

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Speaker 2: with olive oil.

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Speaker 3: Peel away the leaves of the art choke, cut the

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Speaker 3: stalks two centimeters from the heads. Fry the artichokes in

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Speaker 3: batches until the leaves begin to crisp and the hearts soften.

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Speaker 3: Drain on kitchen paper when cool, peel off the outside leaves,

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Speaker 3: trim the tops of the artichokes. Increase the temperature of

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Speaker 3: the oil to one hundred and seventy degrees. To fry

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Speaker 3: the second time, this is a healthy one.

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Speaker 2: It does strain. We off the oil.

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Speaker 4: I have to say it's tasty. It's healthy in love.

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Speaker 3: So to fry the second time, you place two to

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Speaker 3: three art chokes at a time in a hot oil

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Speaker 3: and fry until crisp for about two to three minutes.

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Speaker 3: Then flatten out the artichokes, set each on a board

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Speaker 3: and gently separate out the layer of the head, exposing

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Speaker 3: the heart. Squeeze between two plates season and serve with

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Speaker 3: lemon amazing recipes.

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Speaker 2: But than I said, an choke has a head and a.

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Speaker 3: Heart, So I was thinking about myself, what do you

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Speaker 3: read it for?

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Speaker 2: Can you start for lunch?

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Speaker 4: It depends.

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Speaker 3: So I'm very lucky because I entertain lot our clients

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Speaker 3: and business partners. So we go out to We're in

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Speaker 3: Mayfair and we go out to lovely Mayfair restaurants. So

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Speaker 3: I'm at Scott's a lot carriages, I love the Mount

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Speaker 3: Street restaurant and things which I all now associate with work, right,

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Speaker 3: But then there are lots of days where I'm doing

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Speaker 3: the business end, so I don't leave my desk all day,

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Speaker 3: and my assistant will go and fetch me a salad

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Speaker 3: and all some sushi.

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Speaker 4: I try to eat raw food in the day.

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Speaker 3: But the way it is that Vogue House is each

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Speaker 3: magazine kind of dominates a floor.

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Speaker 4: So I worked on GQ for years.

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Speaker 3: I was running that business, and I was that's the

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Speaker 3: first floor, and then you graduate up and Boga's the

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Speaker 3: fifth floor. And there was always this idea that nobody

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Speaker 3: eats at Vogue, you know, so people would deliver. You'd

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Speaker 3: see in the reception of Vogue House. You know, cakes

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Speaker 3: and these amazing things being delivered, and we'd all sort

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Speaker 3: of scoff, Oh, well, you know they'll be in the

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Speaker 3: bin and needs them up there, and you know a GQ.

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Speaker 3: We all sort of it was food everywhere all the time,

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Speaker 3: you know, and actually is a big misconception because.

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Speaker 4: We were Yeah, we work really hard.

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Speaker 3: It's a really hard working team, the Vogue team. I

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Speaker 3: still now I'm overseeing all of the brands at Conde

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Speaker 3: Nas but I still sit with Edward on the fifth floor.

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Speaker 3: And he loves to eat.

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Speaker 4: We love to eat.

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Speaker 3: We love to plan a dinner. We love to incorporate

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Speaker 3: a bit of our culture into dinners. So even when

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Speaker 3: we did his wedding, his wedding was at long leads

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Speaker 3: and it helped him to plan that. It was amazing.

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Speaker 3: But we were saying, you know, we need to have

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Speaker 3: John Off in there, which caterists can go. Yeah, we did,

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Speaker 3: and we had you know, he loves spicy food. Anytime

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Speaker 3: he comes here, he'll always say, can I have chili

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Speaker 3: and chili Island, So we had chili sauces and everything.

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Speaker 3: So it's talking about food eating a lot of times

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Speaker 3: he and I eat our lunch at desks you know,

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Speaker 3: across from each other. So he'll have steam vegetables and

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Speaker 3: you know, some fish or chicken or something, and I'll

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Speaker 3: have sushi. But we sit together and eat it if

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Speaker 3: we're if we're doing a working lunch. Otherwise I'm out

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Speaker 3: with clients.

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Speaker 2: When we talked to Edward Nifl, and he just felt

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Speaker 2: quite a lot about wanting to change the culture of

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Speaker 2: you know, the stick thin model and the denial of

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Speaker 2: food and the denial of pleasure and in order to

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Speaker 2: show clothes at their best. Now that you're in such

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Speaker 2: a senior position at Cande Nast, does that does that

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Speaker 2: into your yes world? Yeah, what do you feel about it? Well?

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Speaker 3: I think that you know, the reason that Edwind and

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Speaker 3: I's partnership kind of is so important to me is

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Speaker 3: we had been separately and a bit together talking about

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Speaker 3: this challenge in our industry, not just about beauty being

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Speaker 3: about stick thin, which is kind of a bit preposterous,

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Speaker 3: but just the idea that magazin scenes in media represented

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Speaker 3: this kind of one really hard to reach version of

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Speaker 3: being a woman, which we didn't grow up surrounded by

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Speaker 3: my friends, weren't those people, and yet there were these

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Speaker 3: magazines that we loved representing that in an industry which

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Speaker 3: we loved and we were a part of, you know,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, the joy and beauty for both

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Speaker 3: of us was all around, in different shapes and different

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Speaker 3: sizes and different color And what we did behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes at Vogue was build a group of people who

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Speaker 3: didn't think like us. That's how you learn about new,

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Speaker 3: exciting things if you're all speaking to each other. And

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Speaker 3: you you know, Edwin and I actually have quite similar backgrounds.

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Speaker 3: I was laughing with Steve McQueen about our mothers did

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Speaker 3: exactly the same thing.

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Speaker 4: Nurses in the same hospital did your mother?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so our background, you know, he can start

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Speaker 3: a sentence, I can finish it because our backgrounds are

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Speaker 3: so similar. And so what's really fascinating is talking to

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Speaker 3: I mean, I could talk to Steve forever in a

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Speaker 3: day or Edward forever in a day. But what I

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Speaker 3: really love is to talk to people who didn't grow

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Speaker 3: up like me. That's where and I think that's what

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Speaker 3: I really want to challenge not only the media industry

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Speaker 3: but the but any organization to do a little bit more. Is,

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Speaker 3: you know, how can you connect with people and wider

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Speaker 3: audiences if you don't have them.

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Speaker 4: In your midst.

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Speaker 2: And food and food is the great connector with him,

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Speaker 2: and he remember him talking very much about growing up

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Speaker 2: like you, very very interesting conversations about his mother and

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Speaker 2: the markets and kind of keeping the food of their

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Speaker 2: parents and their grandparents and adapting to the food of

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Speaker 2: the culture.

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Speaker 3: The keeping food alive through food is everything, you know,

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Speaker 3: when when everything was planned around food, I remember all

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Speaker 3: of our great excursions on the weekends being about going

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Speaker 3: to get food, you know, so particularly in London in

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Speaker 3: the nineties late eighties nineties, where a lot of the

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Speaker 3: foods that we ate in the Caribbean in particular were

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Speaker 3: not readily available. You couldn't pop to, you know, Sainsbury's,

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Speaker 3: so you'd go from West London to Dulstone Market because

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Speaker 3: somebody told you that there was something there or what

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Speaker 3: have you.

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Speaker 4: And Wembley Market.

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Speaker 3: We used to go to south All Market lots because

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Speaker 3: the Indian community had lots of the ingredients and spices

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Speaker 3: and so on that we used. And so that's really unifying.

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Speaker 3: But I think with one of the best ways to

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Speaker 3: get to know people and groups of new people when

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Speaker 3: you're trying to connect and create these kind of diversity

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Speaker 3: of perspective, spaces where you know it's through food.

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Speaker 2: Where were you born?

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Speaker 3: So from the very beginning, I was born in Kenya,

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Speaker 3: in Nanuki. My father is Kenyan and my mother is

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Speaker 3: from Saint Kitts in the Caribbean, Saint Kittenita, it's tiny

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Speaker 3: into the islands. And they met here in London. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of a strange pairing in the seventies, and it

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Speaker 3: was quite a radical relationship.

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Speaker 4: There's because.

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Speaker 3: At that time Africans and people from the Caribbean did

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Speaker 3: not spend that much time together.

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Speaker 4: They certainly didn't end up in relationships.

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Speaker 3: And London is the great sort of unifying space, right

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Speaker 3: It's a true melting plot I think in the world.

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Speaker 4: They met here, they.

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Speaker 3: Fell in love, and my mother moved with my father

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Speaker 3: to this strange land where she knew no language or

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Speaker 3: the culture. Lots of her family didn't speak to her

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Speaker 3: because of the move, and indeed lots of his family

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Speaker 3: didn't speak to him because someone from yeah, from a

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Speaker 3: different culture, and he was a very eligible bachelor.

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Speaker 4: So I was born in this kind of context.

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Speaker 2: Why did they both plan to come to London for

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Speaker 2: a short time and then go home or did.

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Speaker 4: My father what did he do? He did some of

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Speaker 4: his education here.

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Speaker 3: He's a military man, but he studied engineering, came to

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Speaker 3: London with studies and works and things. And my mother,

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Speaker 3: who is a great inspiration in my life, has moved

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Speaker 3: here at seventeen on her own. She took the flight

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Speaker 3: and came to London to become a nurse with the NHS.

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Speaker 3: And it was a time where British were recruiting heavily

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Speaker 3: in the Commonwealth to establish the welfare states to come

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Speaker 3: and become nurses and.

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Speaker 4: Bus drivers and all of those things.

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Speaker 3: And she had a big kind of dreamy heart and

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Speaker 3: came here thinking this is going to be an incredible life.

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Speaker 2: Then to us supported to yeah, Kenny.

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Speaker 3: Was it a small village, Quite a small village, yes,

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Speaker 3: And it's in a sort of mountainous area. His family

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Speaker 3: were in Coffee, so yeah, quite rural, but they were

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Speaker 3: very well off. But my mother had a very difficult

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Speaker 3: time settling in there. And this is where food comes

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Speaker 3: in because she was encountering women who didn't understand her

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Speaker 3: literally and figuratively. She only spoke English and they often

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Speaker 3: spoke five languages, you know, and so the language barrier

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Speaker 3: was there. She didn't speak Swahili, she didn't speak the

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Speaker 3: dialect as well, and so food was her way to

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Speaker 3: connect with people. She used to say to me, it's

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Speaker 3: quicker to learn addition than to learn a language. And

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Speaker 3: I think one of the most ingratiating things you can

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Speaker 3: do in a new culture is you know, know some

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Speaker 3: basic words to greet people. And she looked at food

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Speaker 3: in the same way. If you could cook the food

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Speaker 3: really well, it was a show of respect. So she

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Speaker 3: learned to cook, which I also found strange because she

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Speaker 3: had cooks and nannies and all of those things. But

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Speaker 3: she loved to cook, and.

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Speaker 2: She loved to cook before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my grandmother was a great cook.

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Speaker 2: And grandmother and Saint KITT's.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're all over the place, and my.

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Speaker 3: Family are not a family who say I love you

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Speaker 3: a lot, but we're incredibly loving family and expressed through stories,

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Speaker 3: like everyone in my family is a bit of a joker,

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Speaker 3: you know, funny stories and food.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a kitchen Like do you remember the

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Speaker 2: kitchen in the house?

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Speaker 4: Well, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I we left Kenya at when I was eighteen months old.

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Speaker 3: I don't have any real memories. But again, she would

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Speaker 3: cook the dishes to keep I guess the Kenyon in

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Speaker 3: me alive. So we left when I was eighteen months old.

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Speaker 3: We moved to Saint Kits and then we came to

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Speaker 3: London and she would cook ugalley and soka mawiki and

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Speaker 3: mung beans and these are Kenyan dishes.

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Speaker 2: What are the first two? I know? Mung beans?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So soka mawiki is it's like collared greens or

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Speaker 3: kale with tomatoes and onions, and you tend to have

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Speaker 3: it with rich dishes, so like a beef stew or

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Speaker 3: stewed mung beans and ougalley, which is like a maze

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Speaker 3: kind of it's almost like a not a mashed potato,

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Speaker 3: but it's quite a firm, dense carrier almost for shoes

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Speaker 3: and things. And the soukamwiki is like a palate cleanser.

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Speaker 3: So she would make these dishes for us, my sister

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Speaker 3: and I, I guess, to keep that Kenyan culture alive

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Speaker 3: in us growing up, moving around, living in belonging to

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Speaker 3: three places. Food was a brilliant connector to places we'd

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00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 3: left so that they didn't become lost, but also a

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Speaker 3: really good way of connecting with somewhere new, with new people,

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Speaker 3: with new communities and within new life almost.

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Speaker 4: Well. Okay, So at two we went to live with

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Speaker 4: my grandmother. My mother and father got divorced.

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Speaker 3: My mother came back to London to try and re

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Speaker 3: establish herself by a house and all of those things,

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Speaker 3: and we stayed in Sant Kits with her, visiting frequently

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Speaker 3: with my grandmother. So I was very young, so I

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Speaker 3: was stuck to her all the time. And she is

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Speaker 3: definitely the most powerful sort of figure in my life.

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Speaker 4: My mother's a very powerful figure. We're very close.

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Speaker 3: When my grandmother is almost my heart, you know, and

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Speaker 3: I gosh, I'm welling up.

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Speaker 4: Even talking about her.

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Speaker 3: It's so because when we spoke about this, No, she's not,

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Speaker 3: but she's very much alive in me. I think about

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Speaker 3: her every day, not only through food but also just

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Speaker 3: her advice. Was amazing because it's so funny, it's really

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Speaker 3: evocative thinking about this.

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Speaker 4: I'm getting emotional.

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Speaker 3: No, it's kind of happy to you know, when someone

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Speaker 3: leaves a mark on your life that's so powerful and

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00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 3: kind of runs through everything in my working life, whenever

287
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Speaker 3: I'm up against any kind of challenge, in the way

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Speaker 3: I raise my son, in the way that I connect

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Speaker 3: to people, and what I place is important. These kind

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00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 3: of figures are so strong, and I miss her, I

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Speaker 3: really miss.

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Speaker 4: Her, but she's alive.

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Speaker 2: What was her food like? Describe? Was she in the

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Speaker 2: kitchen all day long.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember her not wearing an apron or some

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00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 3: sort of overalls. So she made food that was needed,

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Speaker 3: constant nurturing, you know.

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Speaker 4: Her house was also.

299
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Speaker 3: Where everyone dropped in, so my sister and I lived

300
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 3: there on and off. Four of my cousins lived there,

301
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 3: and my uncle's children, and then she was sort of

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00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 3: everyone's grandmother. So her house was, Oh, it was so fun.

303
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 3: It was a wash with children all the time. And

304
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,120
Speaker 3: I was the youngest, so I was always with her.

305
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 3: I slept in her bed, and I was literally on

306
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 3: her apen strings. So her food was very rich. It

307
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 3: was like almost like a warm embrace, you know, hearty,

308
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 3: and lots of sort of stews and meats and heavily

309
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 3: marinated delicious comfort food, dumplings and you know, sort of starchy,

310
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Speaker 3: delicious things. And she kept her own little farm, at

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Speaker 3: least it felt like a farm to me. She grew

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00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 3: her own vegetables, she had her own fruit tree, She

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00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 3: would graft her own strains, of mango. She grew herbs

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Speaker 3: and things that people would come and visit her to buy,

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Speaker 3: and she kept her own animals, and I used to

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00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 3: help her tend to those little gardens, and then she'd

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00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 3: make up these amazing dishes from food, and she'd tell

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Speaker 3: me stories of the food as well.

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Speaker 2: So did she grow up in poverty or did she

320
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Speaker 2: grow up any Yes? She did.

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Speaker 3: And I look at sort of my life now, which

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00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 3: is so much on her shoulders, and all of the

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00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 3: opportunity I have now, and I think about how important circumstances.

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Speaker 3: So she was a really intelligent woman. She was the

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Speaker 3: most prolific reader I ever knew. She was either cooking

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Speaker 3: or reading. But she was forced to leave school at fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Her mother was a She also had a slightly strange

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Speaker 3: parentage in that her father was previously a slave and

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Speaker 3: her mother.

330
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Speaker 2: Was grandfather was a slave. Yeah in syn kids, yeah,

331
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Speaker 2: and probably like the Civil War probably yeah.

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Speaker 3: But her mother, which is really strange, was a Portuguese

333
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Speaker 3: woman from a slave owning family, so it's really really

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00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 3: unusual that way around. And her mother was not very

335
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 3: maternal at all, and so they fell upon hard times.

336
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 3: Her mother was seen I think as having made bad decisions,

337
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 3: and so she didn't grow up surrounded, as I understand it,

338
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 3: by lots of love, and so she created this love

339
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 3: loving world. But the reason that it's important at how

340
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 3: she grew up is her food was very much worker food.

341
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Speaker 3: You know, she made food that they would have made

342
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Speaker 3: for men and women who worked picking cotton.

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Speaker 4: She was picking cotton at fourteen.

344
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 3: Years old in the fields, and then after that taking

345
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 3: books under the house to read them in evening and

346
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 3: cooking and supporting the households and so on. So she

347
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: had this really eclectic upbringing where she really valued education

348
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 3: and missed her opportunity I think, to have a full education.

349
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Speaker 3: But food was also the key joy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so would you sit down? Would you go

351
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Speaker 2: to school and then every evening come home and sit

352
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 2: down for dinner. Would there be for dinner on the

353
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Speaker 2: table for you? Yes?

354
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So my grandmother always liked us to sit and

355
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 3: eat together again because I think sharing stories and storytelling

356
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 3: was really important, and food's a really good way to

357
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 3: get everyone together and understand what their days were like.

358
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 3: I was very young, so I was always around the house,

359
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 3: So I looked forward to people coming home with their

360
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 3: stories of the day and enjoying that over food.

361
00:20:58,359 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 4: And so.

362
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 3: We would have great mounds of kind of rice and

363
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: vegetables and these kind of incredible with me and everybody

364
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: would pile in and pour in and go for second plates.

365
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't a very formal sit and the table was

366
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: also off the kitchen, so it was kind of part

367
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 3: of the action, and it was just a really lovely

368
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 3: way to be connected with the people around you.

369
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 2: Breakfast, what was breakfast? Icen that? Do you remember?

370
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 4: Do you know what's so funny? I do not remember breakfast.

371
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 3: What I remember, really really vividly at my grandmother's house

372
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 3: is the back door of her house was at the.

373
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Speaker 4: Base of it.

374
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 3: We called it a mountain, but it was really just

375
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: a big hill and there were mango groves and things,

376
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: and so we would take buckets in the morning. We'd

377
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 3: just run out barefoot, all the kids together with the

378
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 3: older kids, and go and pick fruit and slightly gorge

379
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 3: ourselves on the things.

380
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: So you left this kind of your mother took you

381
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: to London, then, did.

382
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 3: You, Yeah, so my mother, while we were having this

383
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: lovely time, you know, with my grandmother, learning these amazing

384
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 3: lessons about life and opportunity and food and you know,

385
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 3: all of those things. My mother was in London, toiling away.

386
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 3: She was very focused on us moving to London and

387
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 3: having the kind of cultural access that you could have

388
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 3: in London. Being part of different communities was a big

389
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: thing for her, and getting a really, really great education.

390
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,719
Speaker 3: So she was working very hard. She'd managed to on

391
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 3: a nurse's salary by a three bedroom house in West London,

392
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 3: which was her dream, and were all while coming back

393
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 3: every three months to sink it to visit us. But

394
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 3: this sort of sad thing happened where she became this

395
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 3: kind of glamorous figure in my life. But I didn't.

396
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: I didn't really connect that we were ever going to

397
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 3: live together. So when we came to London, it was

398
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 3: a bit of a room awakening, to be honest, Like,

399
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 3: I missed my grandmother terribly.

400
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: Had you ever experienced, either in Kenya or in Saint

401
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: KITT's any form of racism, you probably hadn't, had you No.

402
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: That was also really strange, and I'm also really grateful

403
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: for that, because when I did encounter any forms of racism,

404
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: it just didn't touch my soul because it just seemed preposterous.

405
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 3: You know, the idea that I could be anything bad

406
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: or good just because I'm black was silly because I'd

407
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 3: come from these cultures where everyone's black, good, bad, you know, and.

408
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 4: Everything in between.

409
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 3: And so I think I'm really with retrospect, you know,

410
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 3: grateful to that foundation where I was never affected deeply

411
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: by any kind of racist comments and things like that.

412
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 4: It just felt a bit silly.

413
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: I went to Catholics, where there's a lot of immigrant

414
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: communities anyway, you know, lots of Irish Catholics, Italians, Eastern Europeans,

415
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 3: and so there was that unity in difference anyway. And

416
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 3: then I really think I definitely remember to encounters in

417
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: primary school. I told my mother and she was, of course,

418
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: you know, came down to the school and frustrated, but

419
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 3: it just didn't really really affect me. I think the

420
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: comments are don't affect me as much as seeing injustice

421
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: so more discrimination. But I didn't I couldn't understand that

422
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 3: until later on. Yeah, but I was very lucky to

423
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 3: be surrounded by lots of people who had had their version,

424
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: you know, of the kind of immigrant experience. The other

425
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: thing was my mother is an incredibly charming woman.

426
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 4: Everybody loves her.

427
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: She just brought people together all the time, and so

428
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 3: our house was always filled with quite people from all

429
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: different backgrounds. And again I'm really grateful to that. Now

430
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 3: I tend not to walk into spaces and feel uncomfortable.

431
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: I don't mind being the only person of a I

432
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: don't mind being the only woman in the room, or

433
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 3: the only personal color or whatever. I think that's because

434
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 3: of her, because she was hard not to like. And

435
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: I remember my mother used to host these dinners and

436
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: Sunday afternoons and you'd have, you know, her friend, her

437
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: nursing friends, the High Commission of Saint Kits would be

438
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 3: casually there and like other sort of dignitaries are our

439
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: little house, you know, and these people for you know,

440
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: the woman from a counsel estate around the corner who

441
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: sometimes helped to pick us up from school because she

442
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: was working and things like that. And she just threw

443
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: everyone together and served up food.

444
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: And did she adapt her cooking when she came here,

445
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: did she change to more British cooking or did she

446
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 2: keep for cooking Kenya?

447
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: She kept the cooking a lot of sink it and Kenya,

448
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: But she did we did do these sort of English

449
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: nights so Fridays we'd have would have like British food,

450
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: and we thought it was really exotic. We'd have egg

451
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: and chips for breakfast, no for dinner, which we kind

452
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: of was. Really this was so bizarre to us, you know,

453
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: that's like, wow, potato and an egg and that's the

454
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: whole meal. And lots of different sort of cuisines that

455
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: you could get here, which you couldn't get so readily

456
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 3: and sink it and things. So Fridays and sometimes Saturdays

457
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: were days to either eat out or she'd recreate frankly

458
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 3: with much more flavor, you know. But yeah, no, she cooked,

459
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: and I remember everybody loved her food. I always thoughts

460
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: when my friends came to my house, they came to

461
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: see her rather than going to see me, you know.

462
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: Other people's houses for food. Would it be very different

463
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: from your own?

464
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and it was such a culture shock. I

465
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 3: always loved to go. A very close friend of mine

466
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: is Polish and she in her house, her grandmother had

467
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: a sort of annex in her house. She was blind,

468
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: actually her babcher and we became very close. And now

469
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: I think about it, it's probably because i'd never really

470
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: made the connection of my relationship with my grandmother, but

471
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 3: she would teach me to make pierogies and all of

472
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: these amazing sort of Polish dishes which I would never

473
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 3: have eaten before. And I would have Irish shoes at

474
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: you know, my Irish friends out. I had a friend

475
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: called Margaret who had she was one of thirteen. I

476
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 3: found initially the food really bland, and my first encounter

477
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: with English food was at school, so it's kind of

478
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: you know, the worst, yeah, and then it sort of

479
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: London opened up to me through having these experiences with

480
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 3: different families from different immigrant backgrounds and how they cooked

481
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: and so on. So that was really important in me

482
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: falling in love with being in London after arriving in

483
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 3: that cold October and feeling ripped away from my favorite place.

484
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 3: The idea of Vogue was that it was at the

485
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: time that Edward took over exclusive really in an excluding way, unfortunately,

486
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: which was the style of the time. But the idea

487
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: that you would critique the industry, which was our bread

488
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: and butter. So the business of Vogue is advertising from

489
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: luxury fashion brands who at the time celebrated very thin,

490
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: very white, a very particular youth, and a very particular

491
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 3: type of beauty. So although everyone loved Edward's idea and vision,

492
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: there was also this almost unanimous sort of gulp and fearful,

493
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: very fearful, this, this is going to destroy the business evogue.

494
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: I remember before the first issue on the talk about

495
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: you know, the change, the vision of yourself and the

496
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: Edwards and that first issue was amazing. Tell me about

497
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: that first issue, and it kind of does relate to food,

498
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: doesn't it about food?

499
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 4: It's true, I think that. I think it's very much

500
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: about joy.

501
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: And if you deny yourself anything right, you deny yourself

502
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: getting older, you deny yourself gaining a few pounds for

503
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: the joy of food, you deny who you are in

504
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: terms of your demographic makeup, it's not joyful. And so

505
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: that's what I read, That's what I articulate from what

506
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: Edward's vision was, and it was also my shared views,

507
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: you know, and everything I've described about how I grew up.

508
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 3: It's about great storytelling, it's about joy, it's about connection,

509
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: it's about acceptance of difference, and so this just spoke

510
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: to me.

511
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: It also instills a sense of failure if you're not

512
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: you know, yes, so damaging too. Definitely, and growing up

513
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: that sense of failure if you don't fit into what

514
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: it was.

515
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: You know what was so incredible in that first year

516
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: is so Edward and I went on this mission where

517
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: he basically said, you know, if this doesn't make money,

518
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: then I'm not going to be doing this for very long.

519
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: I know I can do what I need to do

520
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: and people will love it, but I need to be

521
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 3: able to do it for a while. And no one

522
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: can see a path to making this business work. And

523
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: so I set about creating a new business. And it

524
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: was scary stuff because Vogue is half of Condinas business.

525
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 3: So we have ten brands and half of the business

526
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: is Vogue, so you really don't want to mess that up, right,

527
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: So everybody was sort of saying, it ain't broke, you know,

528
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: it ain't broke, leave it alone. But I knew what

529
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: was coming, and so we had to speak to the brands.

530
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: We had to try and ask them to be different.

531
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 3: We had to say, you are going to need to

532
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 3: make samples in different sizes. We can create content for

533
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: you because your ad is now going to look slightly

534
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: strange in the backdrop of this kind of melting pot

535
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: with different races and sizes, and so I had to

536
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: create a different business model for Vogue, which invited in

537
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: different brands to work with us, invited our existing brands

538
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: to work differently. Also that we could bolster up this

539
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: incredible vision where women felt seen and they felt like

540
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: they weren't excluded, and that the idea that a magazine

541
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: like Vogue didn't have to be excluding, it could be

542
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: aspirational and inclusive was radical creatively, but it was radical

543
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: from a business perspective as well, because a lot of

544
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 3: the times when people take those radical creative risks, it's

545
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: on it with a platform which is not so big

546
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: and not so visible and not so scary. And that

547
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: first year issue after issue getting letters, you know, people

548
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 3: taking the time to write letters or long emails to say,

549
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: thank God, I finally see myself. This is amazing and

550
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: was so gratifying. It just you know, powered us on.

551
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: But it was an amazing time and still is.

552
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 2: You've changed the world. Would you say as well? In fashion,

553
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: is that you see more runways with different models of

554
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: different sizes and different shapes. You know, the friends that

555
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 2: I've had who were in models, not many of them,

556
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: but I just saw it was almost painful to see

557
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: the relationship with food to being able to do their job,

558
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: you know, to be.

559
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: Able to I think we still have a lot of

560
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 4: work to do there.

561
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: I definitely feel that British Vogue has changed the magazine

562
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: world and the content world significantly. I remember the first

563
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 3: September that we went. Rihanna was our first, the first

564
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: black woman I believe, to be on the cover of

565
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: British Vogue, and in.

566
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 4: September that was twenty twenty.

567
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: You know, it's very recent, and you know, every time

568
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: we did these and people would say that's the first

569
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: or the first, and you'd say, my god, this is crazy.

570
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 4: It's not like we're going for someone obscure. It's realnit,

571
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: you know.

572
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: And then I remember the subsequent September after that first set,

573
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: remember issue having a black woman on the cover. I

574
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: went to the newsstands as I do, and every single

575
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: magazine cover had.

576
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 4: A black woman on it, and I think this is.

577
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: Incredible, you know, because everybody thought, well, this is what

578
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: we need to do now. And then I became a

579
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: bit afraid that it was trend base. So people were saying,

580
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: what would Edward do? What would they do at Vogue

581
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: and let's create the output without the work behind the scenes.

582
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: Talking to different people, having different people create a real

583
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 3: melting pot. And this idea of diversity of perspective is really.

584
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: Important to me.

585
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: It's one of the big criticisms when Edward was appointed

586
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: and I was appointed, was you're going to appoint two

587
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: black people, you know, so it's like all or nothing,

588
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: and lots of people felt it was kind of fad like.

589
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 3: And I had been at Conde inass at that point

590
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: for nearly a decade. I transformed GQ. I had, you know,

591
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 3: a really Jonathan knew how disappointed me without interview to

592
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: the job of running British for based on my track record.

593
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 4: But what people could see externally.

594
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 3: Was Okay, they're doing a it's a thing they're they're

595
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 3: bringing in, you know.

596
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: And so there was lots of criticism.

597
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: It was quite shocking actually that people were quite vocal

598
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: about it.

599
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 4: And so.

600
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 3: When I saw those September covers, I initially thought, this

601
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: is amazing, this is what we've always wanted. There are

602
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 3: plus sized women and women of color, and this is amazing.

603
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 3: And then I looked at the mass head and I thought, ah,

604
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: not very much has changed Behind the scenes and to

605
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: really make the industry change. And really the new frontier

606
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: is not who's on the cover, it's who works.

607
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 4: Behind the scenes. And how mixed is it?

608
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: If food is memory and you have so many memories

609
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: and it's been so good here about this journey from

610
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: Kenya to sak Kids to the first Law of g

611
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: Q and the top floor of FO and food is

612
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: all that. It's also comfort. And so the question we

613
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: ask everybody is if you need food for comfort, is

614
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: there something you turn to.

615
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: When you do? I'm going to pick two.

616
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: One is pasta isn't past the universal comfort food?

617
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: Certainly mine?

618
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 3: I think almost everyone you know, A really good fresh

619
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: pasta is just comfort. But food from my grandmother's kitchen

620
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: is my ultimate. It's the if the food, the European

621
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: food I love is like a kiss, amazing kiss. My

622
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: grandmother's food is like the warm embrace. And so I

623
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 3: would have. One of the things she would make for

624
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: lunch were something called saltfish fritter. So it's again I

625
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: think from her mother, who's Portuguese. The Portuguese have a

626
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: thing called baccalout Yeah yeah, yeah, salted cord in sync.

627
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: Its my grandmother would make saltfish cakes from them, which

628
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: is just mixed with eggs, onions, chives, peppers, chilis and

629
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 3: then fried into these patties. And you'd have that with

630
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 3: planting and some eggs and it's absolutely divided.

631
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: Do you make it?

632
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, that's that is my comfort food that I

633
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: make for myself.

634
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's slightly adapted.

635
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: But I wish i'd met your grandmother.

636
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 4: She's amazing. Well you're kind of meeting her. Foo.

637
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's a beautiful conversation.

638
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 4: Thank you, it's so special.

639
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: Thank you.

640
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,239
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641
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