WEBVTT - Are Fuel Cells the Future? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.880 Forward Thinking. Hey everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 podcast that looks at the future and says, jumping jack Flash, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.320 it's a gas, gas gas. Jonathan Stricklings, I'm Lauren and 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.240 I'm Joe McCormick. So today we're gonna talk about an 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.520 alternative to gas powered vehicles, or what could potentially be 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.920 an alternative. We're talking about fuel cell technology, and fuel 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.560 cells can be used for more than just vehicles. Obviously 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.120 they can be used for energy production and other methods, 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.400 but we're mostly focusing on vehicles, right. So fuel cells? 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.680 What are they? How do they work? What? What's up 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.680 with this crazy thing? Do they really just generate electricity 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.440 and water? Why don't we have this magical technology everywhere. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.560 We're gonna answer all those questions and more. So sit 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.440 back and relax. Okay, this should be fairly obvious, but 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.920 maybe quick refresher. What's the problem with gas? Well, it pollutes. Uh. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.039 It's polluting both when you're trying to get at the 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.120 raw materials. It pollutes when you're refining the raw materials 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.280 into the fuel. It pollutes after you burn the fuel. Uh. 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.399 And there's a limited amount of the stuff out there, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:17.800 and it's not always in places that are easy for 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.640 us to get to. Also, it's relatively energy and efficient. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.920 Regular gasoline powered vehicle is only really going to operate 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.600 at like efficiency. You're not going to get well. And 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.080 that's the problem with internal combustion engines, right, You're you're 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.399 losing a lot of that potential energy due to heat. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.280 It ends up you're losing it by by heat. So 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.800 instead of being able to harness that energy, we just 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.040 end up releasing it into the environment. Okay, So when 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.000 we're talking about a fuel cell vehicle, correct me if 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.320 I'm wrong, But essentially we're talking about an electric vehicle 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.320 that has its mode of electricity production coming along with it. Right. 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.120 So most electric cars, you'd say, you plug it into 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 the wall, charge up a battery, and then you drive off. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.320 A gas powered car, you take your fuel with you 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.280 and it, you know, makes things explode and that gives 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.480 your power. Yes, this is sort of somewhere in the middle. 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.360 It's an electric car, but you're taking your fuel along 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.960 with you, right, And fuel cells and batteries tend to 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.800 get for for people who aren't familiar with the technology. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.200 It can be a little confusing because they both rely 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.320 on a similar principle. They're electrochemical energy conversion devices, right, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.840 So these are devices just rall that off. These are 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.960 devices that use an electro chemical reaction to generate electricity. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.440 So it's a chemical reaction that as a result, releases electrons. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.920 That's what electricity is, you know, the flow of electrons. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.960 So we then harness this release of electrons through a circuit. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.680 We usually call this a load. We put a load 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.760 on a battery and then those electrons can do work. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.079 So the classic example something that everyone does in their 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.800 physics classes. They build the basic circuit with a little 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.520 light bulb, and then when you close the switch, so 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.799 that you've completed the circuit the electronics right, assuming you 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.360 built everything correctly, which is pretty simple to do, but 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.080 you know, leave it to me, I can mess it 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.280 up once. Once the circuit is complete, the electrons can 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.160 flow from one terminal of the battery through this circuit 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.840 uh doing the work, and then into the other end 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.880 of the battery. Now, with batteries, this electrochemical process results 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.840 in an inert material. Once the electrons come back in 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:30.280 and those those chemicals have finished their their chemical reaction. Uh. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.160 They usually will last you know, a good long while, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.400 depending upon how much load you're putting on the batteries. 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.560 But eventually you get a dead battery, right, You've got 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.640 a battery that no longer can create electricity sufficient for 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.640 you to do any work. Sure, and sometimes you can 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.400 recharge that battery. Sure. Yeah, And that's essentially reversing that process. 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.000 That's when you're instead of harnessing the electrons coming out 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.800 of the battery, you're shoving electrons back in the battery, 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.400 screaming the whole time until the battery has reached some 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.160 level of uh, it's it's returned to the state it 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.640 was before you expended all the energy. More or less, batteries, 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.280 of course, lose their potency over time that less and 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.240 less of the battery will recharge, so that eventually you 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.680 have to replace them anyway. You'll you'll realize that, like 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.400 anyone who's owned any electronics for any length the time, 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.520 it's like, you know, I remember when the battery life 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.559 and this thing was great, but now it doesn't last 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.039 half as long as it used to. And it's not 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.680 just your imagination, you know, it really does happen and 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.520 there are other things that can happen that make that 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.240 that process go more quickly, which is something you don't 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.760 want to do well. Fuel cells are similar to batteries 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.800 and that you have this electrochemical process, but they're different 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.560 in that instead of having a set amount of chemicals 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.000 contained within the unit, you have fuel going into the 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.839 fuel cell to continuously replenish it, and that is what 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.200 allows the electricity to continuously generate as long as you 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.640 have fuel to put into the cell. Okay, So the 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.560 chemicals we often hear about in batteries or things like 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.520 maybe lithium or like say lead in old nickel, cadmium, 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.640 something like that. What are the chemicals we're talking about 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.360 in a fuel cell and how do they actually produce 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.600 electricity on the molecular level? Excellent question. Okay, so they 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.560 they are these very exotic chemicals. Okay, you've got hydrogen. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.160 Stop me if I start getting like crazy here. You've 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.920 got hydrogen and you've got oxygen. Okay, so you've got 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.839 what stars are made of. Yeah, and what we breathe, Yes, exactly. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.440 So hydrogen and oxygen. Now, there is a particular molecule 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.880 that two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.840 will form if they all get buddy buddy with each other, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:41.200 they call water H two oh. So basically, what you're 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.280 doing is you're creating a chamber where hydrogen and oxygen 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.920 want to get together, want being anthropomorphizing obviously, but they 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.640 have a tendency to get together before they want to. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.120 So it's kind of like a tank with two sides, right, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.680 and you have a divider in between the two that 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.040 keeps it from doing this just naturally. And what this 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.480 divider has also on it, this is an electro light membrane. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.559 In the case of the fuel cells we'll be talking 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.520 about today, different fuel cells use different electrolytes. Uh. Some 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.960 use them in membrane forms, some use some molten material. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.840 It all depends upon the actual type of fuel cell, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.160 but for fuel cell vehicles, they tend to be this 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.240 this kind of permeable semi permeable membrane. It looks like 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.440 like plastic wrap. Okay, so this is the electrolyte. It 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:31.200 allows positively charged particles to pass through, but not negatively 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.800 charged particles all right. Now, coded on this electro light 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.240 membrane is a catalyst. Now, a catalyst for those who 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.760 don't remember. Their chemistry is something that facilitates a chemical reaction. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.640 It's sort of a third party negotiator. Yeah. Yeah, it's 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.880 one of those things like, hey, let me make things 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.120 a little easier on you. You know. It's the travel agent, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.280 let me introduce you to my friend. Yeah. So, in 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.720 this case, with a lot of the permeable membrane um 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.920 uh fuel se else. It tends to be a really 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:07.760 exotic and expensive material like platinum, but in nanoparticle forms. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:12.400 So you've you've crushed the stuff into particles that are 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.440 a billionth of a meter in diameter. I mean tiny, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.840 tiny little particles, smaller than what a light telescope could 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.520 pick up. All right, So you've coded this membrane with 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.800 that stuff, and you pressurize the hydrogen, and you force 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.520 the hydrogen against this membrane. The catalyst tells the hydrogen, hey, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.320 I'll let you through, but you've got to lose those 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.120 those electrons you're carrying. Hydrogen carries one electron, right, So 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:41.239 the hydrogen ditches the electrons becomes positively charged ions. Because 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.640 it's a positively charged ion, it can now pass through 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.640 that membrane and get over to where all the oxygen 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.480 atoms are on the other side. But if it has 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.760 to lose electrons to become positive, where do those electrons go. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.240 We'll see. First of all, the electrons really want to 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.440 get back with those hydrogen ions right as the negative 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.160 charges they tracked one another, but there's no way they 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.400 can go through that membrane. However, you've been clever. You've 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.679 created a back door so that the electrons can scoot 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.480 through the back door, rush down the hallway, maybe pushing 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.120 some buttons along the way, and then get to the 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.840 other side of the chamber and then recombined with their 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.360 hydrogen buddies and the oxygen new buddies and form water. 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.920 So in this case, you are actually harnessing the electricity 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.760 by creating this pathway for the electrons to pass through. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.440 That's the anode side of the fuel cell. They come 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.120 in on the cathode side of the fuel cell. That's 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.800 where the oxygen is and where the hydrogen comes into 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.079 combine with the oxygen to form water. So you're end 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.280 result with your basic hydrogen based fuel cell, assuming that 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.680 you don't have any other funky things going on with 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.280 the electrolyte. Uh is that you get electricity you get 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.200 water and you get heat. Those are those are your outputs, 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.960 so you don't you don't have any other I mean water, 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.679 vapor is a greenhouse gas, but you don't have any other, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.120 like toxic gases that are created as result of this reaction. 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.559 So basically the processes. It's kind of like you tear 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.520 children away from their loving parents and force them to 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.120 run through a hall in order to get back to 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.520 their parents. But as they run through the hall, they've 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.040 got to turn a crank. Or you want to go 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:22.080 to a popular nightclub where all the the attractive young 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.480 people are inside, but the bouncer realizes that you are 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.000 not an attractive young person. I'm talking about myself here, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.160 and so you run around the back and find a 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:31.839 back door to get in so that you can get 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.920 into the nightclub exhausted. Yeah, you're on a hamster wheel 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:41.079 generating energy for the young people to dance too. Yeah okay, yeah, 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.520 which is which is that's how daft punk started? Cool 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.800 well known story in this process? Yeah what what the 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.040 running toddlers and the electrons and Jonathan going to the 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.280 back door of the club all having common is they 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:58.080 don't produce greenhouse gases like well maybe water vapor book. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.679 but there's nothing nothing toxic. You don't have any There's 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.440 no carbon dioxide in this kind of fuel cell depending 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:05.679 I say in this kind of fuel cell, because there 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.520 are other types, depending upon the electrolyte being used or 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.600 the method being used, that do create some carbon dioxide 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.160 as a result. We'll talk about one of those in 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.520 a little bit because it's one that kind of It 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.760 was one of those news stories that exploded a couple 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.760 of years ago when it first hit the text circles, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.880 and then I don't know that many people are aware 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.360 of what actually it does. It was this mysterious energy 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.360 generating device which turned out to just be based on 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.280 not I shouldn't say just be based on but turned 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.880 out to be based on fuel cell technology. But mainly 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.080 we're talking about hydrogen yep, yep. I mean you could 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.480 talk about uh, methane based fuel cells. That's the other 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.400 main type. And methane actually is more energy dense than 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.000 hydrogen is, so that's one reason why you might look 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.040 at methane instead of hydrogen. But that also can create 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.520 some other gases as a result of putting it through 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.480 the fuel cell, and the technology is a you years 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.760 behind hydrogen based fuel cells, because that's where most of 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.560 the research has gone into. Okay, so you've got your 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.760 hydrogen fuel cell set up and this is generating water, vapor, heat, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.679 and electricity. What do you do with that stuff? Well, 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.920 first of all, each fuel cell is a tiny little 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.640 thing on its own. Okay, So if you were to say, oh, 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.079 my car has a fuel cell in it, your car 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.839 would not go anywhere, like if your computer had a transistor, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.000 right exactly. That's a good example. Yes, Because you're talking 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.880 about something that can put out points seven vaults of electricity. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.280 That's not enough to do very much. So what you 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:38.880 have to do is you have to have a collection 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.480 of these fuel cells. That's called a fuel cell stack, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.680 and usually you have these separated by bipolar plates, which 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.440 allow these various fuel cells to work together to generate 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.840 enough electricity for you to do whatever the work is 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.920 that you've determined for that particular fuel cell. Right. So, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.960 once you have enough of them to generate enough electricity 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.520 to do what you want to do, then that electricity 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.960 obviously does whatever it's supposed to do. In the case 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.360 of a fuel cell vehicle, it's providing power to an 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.720 electric motor. So just as a battery would provide the 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.040 electricity to an electric motor in a traditional electrical vehicle, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.160 the fuel cell would do that. For this one, the 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.840 water vapor would be uh would be essentially vented. You know, 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.880 it's an exhaust, so you'd lose that and the heat 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.800 would just be released to the atmosphere as well. Now, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.000 I should also say that fuel cells, the different types, 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:36.679 operate at different temperatures for uh, the optimal performance. Right, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.839 There's some fuel cells that do really well at temperatures 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.480 that are pretty typical for what you would find in 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.719 a car engine, so that would be okay. The membranes 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.280 are a little a little tricky because some of them 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.800 are very delicate, and as temperatures drop, the membranes become 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.000 vulnerable to that. So that's actually a problem with some 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.080 fuel cells is trying to figure out if you happen 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.200 to be someone who operates the vehicle and say, our 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.320 friends to the Great White North, a fuel cell vehicle 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.800 might not be the best choice because that membrane could 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.000 be damaged in the winter. Right. That's the problem with 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:09.960 a lot of fuel cells actually, and the larger ones 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.480 that operate at much higher temperatures. I mean, because they 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.280 heat up to six hundred or eight hundred degrees celsius. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.320 That's celsius, not fahrenheit. Kids. Um, you know it's heating 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.079 that much, and then cooling it back down to room 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:25.319 temperature can create a lot of corrosion within the materials 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.320 that it's made of. Right, you don't want to you 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.280 don't want to have to shut it down more frequently 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.120 than necessary, because when it's at the optimal temperature, it's 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.560 it's performing like gangbusters. But then once you have to 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.680 shut it down, then obviously you have to take in 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.000 more energy just to cool it down and then heat 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:43.760 it back up to get it to the right temperature. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.559 So it sounds like even though we've heard about fuel 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.880 cells mostly being used in application with cars, they'd actually 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.800 be easier to use in sort of like a stationary 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:58.440 UH system infrastructure, maybe powering a factory or something like that. Yeah, factory. 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.320 Is there even power generation plans that use fuel cells? 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.160 These are ones that tend to use the ones you're 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.760 talking about, Lauren, the ones that operate at really high temperatures. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.720 They're really efficient and they put out a great deal 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.920 of power. But it also means that they cannot be 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.400 used for applications like driving a car, because I don't 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.720 know about you, but personally I start getting uncomfortable if 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.200 my car gets over ninety degrees fahrenheit, and if it's 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.080 operating at a hundred degrees celsius, I have a feeling 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.000 I would. I mean, even Atlanta summers are not that bad, right, 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.720 So you can't really have something that operates at those 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.280 temperatures in a form factor as small as a car 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.640 without cooking the inhabitants of that car or making the 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.120 car of some sort of material that would deflect all 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.720 that heat, which would make the car heavier and require 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.520 you to put more energy into it to actually make 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.720 it move. It would be pretty awesome for cooking soup 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.360 on the go, though, know that your soup would be 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.560 instantaneously cooked. Uh my intuitions as even more than a 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.720 comfort problem. It just sounds sort of mechanically unstable. Oh sure, yeah, 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.960 So those sort of applications would be for things like 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.200 operating a big factory that requires a lot of power, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.840 or a power generation plant, or even being able to 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.760 supply power to a an office building or a home. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.960 So one of the fuel cells that I kind of mentioned. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.600 This is the one I was talking about that made 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.600 a big splash a few years ago and got a 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.120 lot of excitement around it. But then once people started 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.240 figuring out how it was that really working, it was 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.360 still exciting. It just wasn't as mysterious. It's called the 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.520 bloom Box now the bloom box. A few years ago 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.320 it was one of these things where people were really 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.800 vague about what was going on. It was a box 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.440 that was generating electricity, and there wasn't a lot of actually, 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.680 can't look inside it was it almost seemed like it 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.760 almost seems it almost seemed like that the very early 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.880 days of the the promotional material like it seemed like 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.440 it could have been one of those wacky, uh, perpetual 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.320 motion type devices or or free energy devices that never 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.040 pan out. Because I don't know thermodynamics, it's hard to 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.760 get around right, so laws, basic laws of physics are 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.720 difficult to break. So once it came out about exactly 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.760 how it was generating power, people like, oh no, this 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.640 totally makes sense. It's a it's refining a technology that 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.120 we've known about for a really long time, and there 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.520 are actual improvements that make it more useful. But it's 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.160 not mysterious, right, it was fuel cells. Yeah. And just 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.040 to put in I mean, we've known about fuel cells 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.200 since about eighteen thirty nine. One Sir William Grove invented 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.320 the first one um based on his hypothesis that you know, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.480 you could reverse the whole process. Well okay, so he 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.320 knew that that water can be split into hydrogen and 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.160 oxygen by running electric current through it. He shot, hey, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.400 maybe we can do the opposite. Yeah, and it turns 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.600 out I was right. That's electrolysis. By the way, when 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.160 you use electricity to split uh water molecules into their 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.720 basic units, the hydrogen and oxygen. And in fact, that's 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.680 one of the ways that people have talked about generating hydrogen. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.760 We'll get into that a little bit later. So in 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.280 the case of the blue box or the bloom energy boxes, 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.120 they're using solid oxide fuel cells. It's a little bit 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.800 different from the ones that we're talking about with the 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.119 permeable membrane. So the solid oxide ones operate at a 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.439 higher temperature than permeable membrane. So they work fine as 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.720 a standalone unit that's connected to a building, but not 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.920 necessarily a great choice for say a vehicle but they 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.399 also are they also generate a little bit of carbon 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.919 dioxide in the process, so it's a small amount compared 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.320 to the amount of water that is given off, but 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.640 it's still one of those things where you'd say, Okay, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.159 this is not it's not as desirable as say a 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.000 pure hydrogen fuel cell in the sense that it's still 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.800 generating c O two, you know, and we generally think 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.040 that if we can cut back on producing c O two, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:53.080 that would be a good thing. So let's get into 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.959 some of the problems with fuel cells or challenges if 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.600 you prefer if you want to look at as challenges 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.960 as opposed to a problem. Yeah, this sounds pretty good. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.960 So basically, no emissions and all that. Why why don't 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.440 I have a fuel cell car? Okay, a few different reasons. Uh, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.120 some of them are practical, some of them are environmental, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.120 some of them are safety oriented. So, first of all, 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.600 hydrogen is the main fuel we're talking about, apart from 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.920 the methane ones that are still being looked at. Hydrogen 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.239 is really what we're concentrating on with fuel cell. Well, 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.040 that should be easy. You just go outside with the 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.560 jar and swing it around to collect those clouds of 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.280 hydrogen you see floating on Oh if only that were 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.560 the case. Yes, it turns you get pure hydrogen. It's 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.320 not easy because hydrogen in its pure form is in 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.240 really short supply here on Earth. Hydrogen is one of 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.200 those things that tends to bond with everybody wants to 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.080 be everyone's best friend. And so that's why if you've 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.159 ever heard the term hydrocarbons, there are a lot of 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.560 different ones out there. Hydrogen tends to bond with lots 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.320 of stuff. Uh. Yeah, My guess is that most of 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.359 the I don't know this. I imagine a lot of 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.600 the hydrogen on Earth is in water. A lot of 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.200 it is, but it's you know, it's in a lot 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.040 of stuff. So get that hydrogen means that you have 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.840 to expend some energy to get the actual fuel, right, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.919 So you have to start doing calculations. How much energy 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.600 do you have to expend in order to get the 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.119 fuel you're going to use to create energy. If it 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.680 ends up being the same amount or more, then obviously 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.760 you're on the losing side of that. Yeah. So if 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.800 you imagine you go back and use electrolysis to get 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.080 the hydrogen out of the water, you have to create 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.800 electric current right to get pure hydrogen to put in 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.760 your fuel cell to create electric current, So how are 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.359 you getting the original and even your ideal fuel cell 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.800 vehicle kind of thing would only be operating at maybe 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.639 sixty six percent efficientc. So that's that's that's on the 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.200 high end too. Yeah. Yeah, So you're talking about how 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.719 you're going to you're still losing some of that potential energy, right, 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.600 some of it's just going into heat and not driving 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.640 your car, so you have to worry about that as well. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.239 So there are all these things you have to take 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.720 into account. One thing you could do is if you 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.639 really wanted to, you could build a solar farm to 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.120 gen right the electricity to zap the water to make 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.680 the hydrogen to make the cars go, and the green 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.919 grass goes all around and around. So but I mean, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.640 there's there's obviously different ways, and there's some scientists are 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.800 looking into new ways to harvest hydrogen that could pan 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.920 out and end up being a solution to at least 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.880 one part of this problem. But that's just one part. Right. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.320 Even if we did have unlimited access to unbonded hydrogen, 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.639 we would have to have some kind of infrastructure in 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.960 place in order to get the hydrogen to you, Joe 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.920 with your fancy fuel cell vehicle. No, oh, yeah, I imagine. 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.800 I see. Hydrogen is probably harder to transport than something 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.560 like gasoline or oils. You have to liquid. Yeah, you 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.440 end up pressurizing this gas. Also, by the way, hydrogen 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.760 a little bit flammable. So I don't know if you 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.240 ever watched this video that went viral a few years 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.120 ago about the Hindenburg more than a few years ago. Hey, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:57.720 some of us are too soon the humanity. Um. So, Yeah, 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.520 hydrogen is very flammable. It's very dangerous stuff, and and 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.520 so there there are valid safety concerns about putting this 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:10.120 stuff into pressurized canisters because you can't. Another problem. Part 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.320 of the problem is because it's less energy dense than 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.560 other fuels. In order for you to have enough of 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:16.520