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Speaker 1: Dear let you know USA listener.

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Speaker 2: Before we start, you should know that if you want

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Speaker 2: and yes, some cheese may so click the link in

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Speaker 2: the episode description and after you do that, then click play.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to the.

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Speaker 2: Show, Dear listener, I hope you enjoyed the holiday with

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Speaker 2: your loved ones. It's such a special time, but you know,

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Speaker 2: many people simply can't do that, people like Mary Estrada,

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Speaker 2: for example, and that's because Mary's husband, Robert, is in prison.

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Speaker 2: And it's often women like Mary who carry the burden

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Speaker 2: of taking care of their incarcerated loved ones. Since we

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Speaker 2: first aired this story in twenty twenty three, Mary has

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Speaker 2: suffered another loss.

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Speaker 3: And I just got telling her, I'm here, Mom's here,

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Speaker 3: How Mom's going to fix it? And I couldn't fix it.

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Speaker 2: We'll tell you more about that and how Mary's doing

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Speaker 2: today at the end of our show. From Fudro Media,

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Speaker 2: It's Latino USA II Mariegnosa Today Mary's Journey, an intimate

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Speaker 2: look at the financial and emotional burden that women carry

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Speaker 2: when they have the loved one behind bars. One in

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Speaker 2: four people in the United States have a family member

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Speaker 2: behind bars, and those carrying this financial and emotional weight

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Speaker 2: are disproportionately women who are not white.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, How are you mat her thirty? That's fine.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't tell how early in the morning it is.

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Speaker 1: By the way Mary Estrada looks, she has a perfect

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Speaker 1: blowout with some waves framing her round, delicately made up face.

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Speaker 3: It is cold, yeah, very cold.

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Speaker 1: I can hardly see her dark eyes under the extra

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Speaker 1: large eyelash extensions.

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Speaker 3: So today is Sunday. It is six forty one in

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Speaker 3: the morning. We're in Pomona, California, leaving my house to

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Speaker 3: go visit my husband in San Diego at R. J.

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Speaker 3: Donovan Prison.

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Speaker 1: Mary is fifty seven years old and she's been with

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Speaker 1: Robert Estrada since they were teenagers. She started visiting her

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Speaker 1: husband in prison some forty years ago. Robert has been

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Speaker 1: in and out of prison all of his adult life.

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Speaker 1: This is what most weekends look like for Mary. On Saturdays,

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Speaker 1: she gets on a video call with Robert. On Sundays,

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Speaker 1: she drives one hundred and thirty five miles each way

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Speaker 1: to see him in prison.

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Speaker 3: So this is my ritual when I go see my husband,

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Speaker 3: sect to get about three o'clock in the morning, just

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Speaker 3: to make sure you get their own time. If there's

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Speaker 3: no traffic, because I'm drive fast, I get there about

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Speaker 3: I would say an hour and twenty minutes. But if

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Speaker 3: I go with the speed limit, I'll get there in

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Speaker 3: two hours. So today I'll go with the speed limit.

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Speaker 1: Robert is currently being held at Richard J. Donovan Correctional

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Speaker 1: Facility in San Diego, where he's serving a forty two

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Speaker 1: year sentence involving the use of a gun during a

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Speaker 1: robbery and voluntary manslaughter. We won't get into details about

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Speaker 1: his case because that's not what this story is about.

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Speaker 1: It isn't about the harsh experience of being incarcerated either,

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Speaker 1: and we're not trying to undermine their reality or compare

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Speaker 1: it with that of their partners outside. Robert has served

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Speaker 1: eleven years so far, and he's expected to stay in

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Speaker 1: prison until at least thirty seven. Mary is wearing what

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Speaker 1: she calls her prison clothes. Dress code is very strict

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Speaker 1: for prison visitors. The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation,

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Speaker 1: or CDCR, advises to dress conservatively and modestly, which means

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Speaker 1: no short skirts, no tight pants, no blue jeans or

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Speaker 1: hair extensions. Mary wears an airy white dress with some

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Speaker 1: embroidered flowers below the knee and a black V shaped sweater.

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Speaker 1: On her chest hangs a silver crucifix. Her nails are

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Speaker 1: extra long and Barbie pink with glitter butterflies on her

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Speaker 1: ring fingers.

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Speaker 3: Nails look great, Oh thank you. I took them off

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Speaker 3: for like about two weeks and I couldn't even type.

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Speaker 3: And I told my husband. I just said, oh, you're

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Speaker 3: working on a car again. He calls my hands mechandicts

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Speaker 3: when I don't have nails on. But yeah, I have

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Speaker 3: to have my nails on. I think I'm a diva.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can't lose yourself to this life. It's

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Speaker 3: like you still have to get up and get ready.

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Speaker 1: After many years working as an accountant for private companies,

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Speaker 1: Mary recently started working for the County of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: She hasn't told her colleagues that Robert is in prison yet.

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Speaker 1: For Mary, being able to take care of Robert was

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Speaker 1: always above any job requirement.

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Speaker 3: I've always told them during my interviews, I need to

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Speaker 3: take phone calls when it comes in. There's no way

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Speaker 3: can I miss those phone calls. And I have to

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Speaker 3: take certain days off. And if you guys can't meet that,

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Speaker 3: please let me know now, and I won't take the job.

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Speaker 1: Mary says she turned down at least two jobs for

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Speaker 1: that reason. Starty from the se Justice Group, a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: supporting women with incarcerated loved ones, found that nearly half

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Speaker 1: of the women who are taking care of someone in

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Speaker 1: prison changed their personal plans and careers to support their

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Speaker 1: loved ones needs. Many of them end up working more

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Speaker 1: hours or switching jobs so that they can pick up

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Speaker 1: their calls or visit them often. So tell me what

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Speaker 1: are we looking at?

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Speaker 3: So we're looking at my photo album.

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Speaker 1: On the glass table in Pomona, where Mary lives with

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Speaker 1: her sister and her dog. There are three fat photo albums.

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Speaker 3: And these are pictures YouTube in the prison. Yes, and

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Speaker 3: the visits. Oh my god, there's so much, so many.

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Speaker 1: Mary was born in the Philippines, but she grew up

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. She went to high school with Robert's sister.

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Speaker 1: Robert is two years younger than Mary. They were both

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Speaker 1: teenagers when they started dating, but they would break up

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Speaker 1: and get back together often.

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Speaker 3: I was a troubled child, rebellious. I didn't complete high school.

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Speaker 3: I was molested, and it just took a lot out

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Speaker 3: of me.

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Speaker 1: Mary started drinking when she was twelve years old. At

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Speaker 1: the same age, a family member introduced her to drugs.

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Speaker 1: She smoked PCP or angel dust. She also did cocaine,

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Speaker 1: acid snorted heroin. She spent two nights in jail for

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Speaker 1: the first time at the age of eighteen for stealing

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Speaker 1: clothes at them all.

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Speaker 3: I think with the drugs, I just buried my pain

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Speaker 3: in there, and every time I thought of my childhood,

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Speaker 3: it just, you know, it ripped me apart, and it

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Speaker 3: still does.

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Speaker 1: Robert's childhood wasn't easy either. He grew up in the

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Speaker 1: San Fernando Valley, a majority Latino area. His mother is Mexican,

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Speaker 1: his father is Italian Mexican.

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Speaker 3: His mother, she had custody of him, but she wasn't nurturing.

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Speaker 3: His father introduced him to drugs at the age of ten.

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Speaker 3: So my husband was like a throwaway kid, and he

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Speaker 3: just he grew up in the streets just doing drugs.

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Speaker 3: So everybody could tell me, why are you with him,

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Speaker 3: He's bad news. Leave him. I didn't see that in him.

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Speaker 3: I saw a kind gentleman.

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Speaker 1: Robert joined a gang, he started selling drugs, doing carjack strawberries.

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Speaker 1: When he was eighteen, he went to prison for the

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Speaker 1: first time as an adult. He ended up in solitary

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Speaker 1: confinement for about a week, so they couldn't talk, and

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Speaker 1: Mary missed him. She says that's the moment she realized

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Speaker 1: she was in love with him. I've never not had

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Speaker 1: a boyfriend, and with him, it was just so different.

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Speaker 1: There was a connection that I can't even explain. It's

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Speaker 1: like this guy took my heart.

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Speaker 3: I knew that I was going to be with him

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Speaker 3: for the rest of my life, whether he was out

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Speaker 3: here or in there.

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Speaker 1: Mary started spending most of her weekends as an adult

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Speaker 1: visiting Robert in prison. She would go wherever he was

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Speaker 1: being held, like Sacramento, which was a nine hour drive

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Speaker 1: for Mary.

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Speaker 4: What would your family.

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Speaker 3: Or your friends say that I was stupid for doing

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Speaker 3: this journey, for visiting him. They said that I could

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Speaker 3: do better, But he can't control what your heart feels,

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Speaker 3: and this is who my heart wanted.

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Speaker 1: Mary's family would organize trips every once in a while

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Speaker 1: to Hawaii to Memphis to visit Graceland Elvis's house, but

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Speaker 1: Mary refused to join them.

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Speaker 3: Because I didn't want to leave my husband behind. He

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Speaker 3: can't go, So if he can't go, then why am

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Speaker 3: I going to go. I'm not gonna have fun. I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna think about him. So I'd rather be here

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Speaker 3: with him where I could visit him. Thursday, Friday, Saturday,

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Speaker 3: and Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Mary was working three jobs at the time, and she

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Speaker 1: would juggle her schedules around so that she could leave early.

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Speaker 3: It was always on his schedule. It was about him.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, ninety nine percent of the prison

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Speaker 3: community with the wives and the girlfriends, are the same way.

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Speaker 3: We have to get those phone calls, we have to

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Speaker 3: get those appointments, we have to see them.

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Speaker 1: Flipping through the albums, I see a photo where Mary

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Speaker 1: and Robert are kissing.

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Speaker 3: Oh that one. Yeah, that's when kissing was allowed and

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Speaker 3: now they don't allow it. It's not here's one of us.

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Speaker 3: Here's one of us making out. Oh who uses that word? God,

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Speaker 3: it was so long. This is in nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 3: November ninety two. That's his writing, his nice penmanship. This

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Speaker 3: when I was pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Mary had her daughter Samantha at twenty five years old,

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Speaker 1: and she gave birth on her own. California is one

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Speaker 1: of only four states that still allow conjugal visits. For Samantha,

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Speaker 1: growing up while her dad was in prison was tough.

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Speaker 1: All she remembers is going to visit him there.

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Speaker 3: She because you stole my childhood away from me, and

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Speaker 3: I felt bad. I felt bad. She didn't have a

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Speaker 3: relationship with her dad for a long time. She hated him.

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Speaker 3: She wouldn't speak to him because of what he's put

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Speaker 3: me through.

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Speaker 1: The year nineteen ninety six was a turning point for Mary.

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Speaker 1: She spent four months in jail on drug charges. Mary

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Speaker 1: felt the only way she could work on herself and

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Speaker 1: get sober was to leave Robert, who was still using drugs.

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Speaker 1: They were apart for ten years, then in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six, she visited him in prison and decided to

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Speaker 1: get back together. Things got better over time with Samantha

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Speaker 1: as well. She has three children, and Mary says they

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Speaker 1: visit Robert in prison when they're in California.

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Speaker 3: Everybody tells me it's you put your life on hold,

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Speaker 3: and it's still on hold. When are you gonna live?

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Speaker 3: But this is living for me. I can't see my

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Speaker 3: life without him. Speak of the devil.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm talking to Mary in her home. She gets

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Speaker 1: one of those phone calls that puts everything on hold. Hello,

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Speaker 1: you have from Robert and Mary chat about the problems

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Speaker 1: with the food sold by the prison cafe. Families could

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Speaker 1: only buy their fresh foods for their overnight visits also

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Speaker 1: known as family visits. From one bender.

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Speaker 4: You can't be.

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Speaker 2: I'm taking great Here.

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Speaker 3: We go.

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Speaker 1: Married team tap with several other women to complain about

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Speaker 1: the food vender. They say he was selling them rotten

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Speaker 1: and expired food. They also point out that his prices

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Speaker 1: are higher than at regular source.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Robert tells Mary that the news about the food complaints

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Speaker 1: have spread inside Donovan as well.

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Speaker 3: Okay good.

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Speaker 1: Mary is the one leading this movement, as she calls it.

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Speaker 1: Advocacy is a big part of Mary's life. She manages

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Speaker 1: several Facebook groups for families of the incarcerated in California,

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Speaker 1: and two of them are dedicated to R. J. Donovan,

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Speaker 1: the San Diego prison. Mary says there are more than

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty people in the Donovan group and

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Speaker 1: they're all well.

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Speaker 3: That has to change as well, because the food is

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Speaker 3: rotten in there, and then like when you guys have

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Speaker 3: power outages, those machines go down, so all that melted

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Speaker 3: ice cream is still sitting there, and then we're purchasing it.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think I never eat the ice cream?

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Speaker 3: I tell you to stop eating it.

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Speaker 1: Mary created a food committee with six other women from

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Speaker 1: her Facebook group. They reached out to the Department of

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Speaker 1: Corrections and other agencies to complain about the vendor and

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Speaker 1: ask if he was authorized to sell fresh food to families,

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Speaker 1: among other issues. It's not the first time Mary's being

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Speaker 1: vocal about the problems at Donovan. She's organized protests in

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Speaker 1: front of the prison and talked to the media about

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Speaker 1: Donovan's mismanagement during the pandemic. She has served as a

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Speaker 1: family representative at the prison, and she speaks regularly with

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Speaker 1: see the headquarters, and all of that affects Robert too.

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Speaker 1: But Robert is very proud of Mary and her advocacy

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Speaker 1: for the families. He says Mary is the only good

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Speaker 1: thing that's ever happened to him, and that men at

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Speaker 1: Donovan want their wives to be more like Mary, the

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Speaker 1: way she's always there for him and fighting to make

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Speaker 1: things better. Last Christmas Robert painted a portrait of Mary

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Speaker 1: as a gift for her. In the painting, Mary wears

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Speaker 1: a white hat with a blue ribbon that reads masterpiece.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sorry because I know that this also puts you,

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Speaker 3: like in a position. I'm not trying to get anybody

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Speaker 3: in trouble. I just want what's right.

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Speaker 1: You had six.

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Speaker 3: I love you, all right, Yeah, I'm fine.

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Speaker 5: Dark at the picture.

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Speaker 3: Shut up with you in your stupid picture. I know,

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Speaker 3: I think I love you. I love you, God, bless you, bye,

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Speaker 3: honey God. I hate that prison always something. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I just get so passionate about it. You can call

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Speaker 3: it puppy love. But he is my true love. He's

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Speaker 3: my best friend. Even though he's in there, I can

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Speaker 3: depend on him for anything. He's my backbone. He really is.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna get try.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino, USA, we continue our journey with

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Speaker 2: Mary to our J. Donovan Correctional facility, and along the

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Speaker 2: way we meet another woman who's learning the ropes of

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Speaker 2: being married to someone in prison. Stay with us, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're back. Before the break. We began our journey to

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Speaker 2: accompany Mary Estrada in one of her visits to R. J.

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Speaker 2: Donovan that's the prison in San Diego where her husband,

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Speaker 2: Robert is being held. Mary's been visiting and taking care

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Speaker 2: of Robert in prison for forty years. Latino USA Senior

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Speaker 2: producer Marta Martinez is back in the car with Mary.

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Speaker 3: And we're going to join them now.

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Speaker 1: Next to her car seat, Mary has a tiny plastic

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Speaker 1: purse full of meds and doctor's notes. One of those notes,

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Speaker 1: for example, states that she needs a special diet which

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Speaker 1: allows her to bring her own food for family visits.

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Speaker 1: Several women from Mary's Facebook group have doctor's notes too.

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Speaker 3: How cones of heart failure six seven months ago. I

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Speaker 3: went to go visit him and I felt really off.

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Speaker 3: So when I got to my visit, my husband was

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Speaker 3: worried because I kept dozing off. Then I ended up

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Speaker 3: my visit earlier, but I couldn't even drive out, So

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Speaker 3: when I went to the doctor, it showed that I

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Speaker 3: had a mild heart attack.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Having a loved one in prison damagist women's emotional and

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Speaker 1: physical health. According to a study by the sy Justice Group,

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Speaker 1: more than ninety percent of the way whose partners are

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Speaker 1: incarcerated reported feeling anxiety, depression, migraines, insomnia, fatigue, and all

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Speaker 1: of that can lead to more serious conditions in the

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Speaker 1: long term too.

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Speaker 3: I tell everybody this journey is not easy. Evaluate or

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Speaker 3: reevaluate your lives before you do this journey, because there's

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Speaker 3: no going back. It's time consuming, it's expensive.

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Speaker 1: Mary says she makes seventy thousand dollars a year. It

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Speaker 1: took her years to get out of debt keeping up

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Speaker 1: with the costs of supporting Robert. A third of families

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Speaker 1: who have a loved one in prison go into debt

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Speaker 1: when they support them financially, according to a report of

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Speaker 1: the Elebaker Center for Human Rights, a nonprofit group that

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Speaker 1: focuses on organizing black, brown and low income people.

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Speaker 3: He goes full store, it's two forty a month.

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Speaker 1: Every month, Mary puts two hundred and forty dollars in

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Speaker 1: Robert's commissary account so that he can buy additional food

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Speaker 1: like soups, tortillas, packaged meat, to keys, and hygiene products.

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Speaker 1: Mary says food serve that the prison is not enough

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Speaker 1: and it's often unhealthy. No fresh fruits or vegetables, sometimes

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Speaker 1: even expired or rotten. So many incarcerated people rely on

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Speaker 1: commissary food for their diets. Mary worries about Robert sayet

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Speaker 1: a lot because she says he has stage four cirrhosis

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Speaker 1: and stage three kidney failure.

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Speaker 3: I buy his quarterly packages.

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Speaker 1: Families can send care packages whenever they want. They can

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Speaker 1: only do that every three months, but there's a catch.

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Speaker 1: These packages can only be bought through third party vendors

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Speaker 1: authorized by the prison. Through them, families are allowed to

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Speaker 1: buy essentials like pre good foods and hygien products, but

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Speaker 1: also clothes, electronics, and even wedding rings. But the items

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Speaker 1: in these catalogs are often more expensive than they would

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Speaker 1: be at a regular supermarket, sometimes even double like the

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Speaker 1: pre cooked Spanish rise Robert Blakesweet, Mary and other women

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Speaker 1: told me they spend between two hundred and four hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars on each quarterly package.

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Speaker 3: And then you have to pay for the phone calls.

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Speaker 3: Before it was just straight collect calls, so when he

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Speaker 3: was in County jail, a fifteen minute phone call would

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Speaker 3: be like almost twenty five dollars for me.

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Speaker 1: Phone calls are one of the biggest money drains for

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Speaker 1: families in California. At the start of twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: phone calls became free of charge for people incarcerated in

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Speaker 1: state prisons. Before then, families were paying an estimated sixty

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Speaker 1: eight million a year in prison phone calls. California is

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Speaker 1: only one of four states in the country which have

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Speaker 1: made state prison calls free. The Prison Policy Initiative, a

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Speaker 1: nonprofit research group, estimated that families across the US spend

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Speaker 1: nearly three billion dollars yes with a B every year

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Speaker 1: in commissary fees and phone calls. And then of course

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Speaker 1: Mary has to pay for the gas to go visit

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Speaker 1: Robert every weekend, and the food she'll get from the

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Speaker 1: vending machine there because they aren't allowed to bring their

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Speaker 1: own food. A hamburger, for example, is eight.

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Speaker 3: Dollars, So on an average a month, I would spend

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Speaker 3: maybe like a little over fifteen hundred, plus I have

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Speaker 3: to pay what I have here, so it's been hard.

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Speaker 1: Mary lives with her sister. They own the house in Pomona,

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Speaker 1: so she doesn't have to pay rent, but she still

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Speaker 1: has to pay for her own expenses, her car, her dog,

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Speaker 1: all of that, making seventy thousand dollars a year. For

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Speaker 1: a long time, Mary also took care of their daughter, Samantha.

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Speaker 1: Seventy percent of women who have incarcerated loved ones are

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Speaker 1: the only breadwinners in their families.

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Speaker 3: And there were times where I couldn't go because I

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Speaker 3: didn't have any money, and he would just tell me,

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Speaker 3: I don't have to eat, just come and see me

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Speaker 3: because I want to see you. So we would do that.

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Speaker 1: If that wasn't enough. In the majority of cases, it's

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Speaker 1: women who end up paying for their loved ones restitution.

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Speaker 3: Restituition is no joke.

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Speaker 1: Restitution is the money convicted people have to pay back

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Speaker 1: for the damage they caused, both to the victims and

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Speaker 1: to the state. The way California collects that money is

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Speaker 1: that they take fifty percent of the money family's food

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Speaker 1: in the incarcerated person's account, like the money they use

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Speaker 1: for the prison store or commissary.

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Speaker 3: So I would have to put five hundred dollars every

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Speaker 3: three weeks for him to get full store. So a

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Speaker 3: lot of the families couldn't afford that. That's highway robbery.

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Speaker 3: It took me, I want to say, six years to

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Speaker 3: pay off his restitution.

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Speaker 1: Robert's restitution was ten thousand dollars. The average dead families

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Speaker 1: end up with for court related fines and fees is

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Speaker 1: close to fourteen thousand dollars. Mary would often max out

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Speaker 1: her credit cards without telling Robert.

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Speaker 3: But all the money that I put into my husband

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Speaker 3: from the age of eighteen till now, I'd be a

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Speaker 3: multi millionaire.

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Speaker 1: Family visits are another expensive piece of the relationship puzzle,

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Speaker 1: but also one of the most coveted because it's the

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Speaker 1: only time spouses can be together with their family members

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Speaker 1: for two days and nights without supervision. Mary says she

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Speaker 1: usually spends more than five hundred dollars on a family visit,

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Speaker 1: the food, the gas, and she has them every three

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Speaker 1: months or so.

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Speaker 3: But what are we going to do? Because we want

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Speaker 3: to be there and the families will pay that price.

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Speaker 1: Less than an hour after starting our drive south, we

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Speaker 1: take an exit into another suburban area.

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Speaker 3: We're also on the way to pick up my carpooler

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Speaker 3: who is also going to RG Donovan. Her name's Yvette.

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Speaker 1: Yvette Carrion is also a member of Mary's Facebook group

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Speaker 1: and one of the youngest wives in it. She's thirty

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Speaker 1: five years old.

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Speaker 3: She is I hae it.

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Speaker 1: She's a second generation Latina. Her family is from the

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Speaker 1: Mexican state of Sinaloa.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm trying there's new growndy marys, so you know,

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Speaker 5: just in case. Okay, Well it's wireless, but it has

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Speaker 5: the pastic clips around the straps.

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Speaker 4: Yes, will it set off teller?

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Speaker 5: No, A lot of girls wear on home.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: As soon as she gets in the car. This is

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Speaker 1: the first thing Yvette asks Mary about her bra.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that dress code at the prison is it's crazy.

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Speaker 3: You have to be with their guidelines.

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Speaker 4: Like you can't wear regular bra no because of the wires, yep,

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Speaker 4: and the buckles. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't realized how intimately prison rules these women's lives

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Speaker 1: down to their underwear.

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Speaker 5: It's still grady you to say. I feel like they

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Speaker 5: treat us the way like they treat them. They don't

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Speaker 5: view us any differently. We're like inmates on time out.

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Speaker 1: We reached out to the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation

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Speaker 1: about this. In a statement, they said that they recommend

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Speaker 1: visitors to arrive at least one hour early for processing.

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Speaker 1: That's when anyone who enters the facility is searched for

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Speaker 1: potential contraband. Prison officials say it is a necessary step

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Speaker 1: to ensure the safety of incarcerated individuals and that they

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Speaker 1: follow the same rules at each prison.

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Speaker 4: I need to be married.

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Speaker 5: Do you remember the first time I see Mary, she

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Speaker 5: was pissed off sitting in that lobby, and I was

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Speaker 5: just like what I was looking at her?

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, dang, she really is me.

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Speaker 5: And then I finally introduced myself to her, and then

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Speaker 5: we just started talking more and then carpulling together. I

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Speaker 5: appreciate Mary because I would be so lost with this

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Speaker 5: whole journey because there's a lot of things we don't know,

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Speaker 5: not even tell my husband sometimes, like like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: ask Mary, and he's like, you always ask Mary.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, well, yeah, she knows a lot. I'm like

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Speaker 4: new to all this.

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Speaker 1: Yvette and Jonathan went to high school together, but back

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Speaker 1: then they were just friends. Jonathan went to prison and

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Speaker 1: when he was eighteen. He's been in there for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Yvette had four children with another partner, then separated. She

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Speaker 1: reconnected with Jonathan and they started talking on the phone

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Speaker 1: more and more often. Four years ago, she started visiting

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Speaker 1: him in prison.

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Speaker 5: I never came to visit anyone in prison. I ended

441
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 5: up coming with him, and then I fall in love

442
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 5: with my husband and we got married.

443
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: Yvette says she spends close to one thousand dollars a

444
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: month to support Jonathan. She's also a full time mom

445
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: to four children under the age of nineteen, and she's

446
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: finishing her bachelor's degree in social work. She recently started

447
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: a new job as a social worker working with children.

448
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 4: That's one thing, he said.

449
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 5: He never wants to get in the way of my career,

450
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 5: and he loves that I care about kids the way

451
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 5: I do, he says, that's one thing he admires about me.

452
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: Yvette hasn't told many of her colleagues that her husband

453
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: is in prison.

454
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 5: Not everyone knows because right when I started, I felt

455
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 5: like I was judged right away, just by the way

456
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 5: I look my makeup.

457
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: If it has several tattoos on her arms and her chest.

458
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: On the base of her right thumb there's a rose

459
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: and growing from its petals up to her knuckles, it

460
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: says Jonathan.

461
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 5: I don't want them to feel like me be married

462
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 5: to him is gonna get in the way of my job,

463
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: because I see how they talk about parents that are incarcerated.

464
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: It's like they just look down on them.

465
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: If it actually sees her experience as something that makes

466
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: her better at her job, because she can see both

467
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: sides in a situation.

468
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you have a double life.

469
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: It is a double life. We have this life and

470
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: then we have our outside life. And especially with work,

471
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: you don't want to bring that out because you don't

472
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: know what they're gonna say or think. It's like a

473
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 3: big secret.

474
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 4: People.

475
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: They need to stop labeling others. Just like with us.

476
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: We are educated and I'm happy with what I have.

477
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: I may not make a lot of money, but I've

478
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: accomplished a lot.

479
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: Mary isn't afraid to face it. Institution like the California

480
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation or CDCR. There are more

481
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: than one hundred thousand people incarcerated in California, the highest

482
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: number in the country after Texas.

483
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: Like with these women, I push them. I always thought,

484
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: exercise your Amendment rights. If you're not sure of it,

485
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 3: look it up. Don't let them deter you from doing

486
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 3: what you think is right. That's what advocacy is. If

487
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: you feel that they're in the wrong, call them out

488
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: on it. But before you call them out on it,

489
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: make sure you have.

490
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 4: Proof, you have facts.

491
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: This journey's not easy, and especially when you're new to it,

492
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 3: because you're blindsided by a lot of stuff, and you

493
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 3: want that one person that does know it to help you.

494
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: And that's Mary for a lot of us.

495
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: Thank you.

496
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 5: Because sometimes your regular friends are family, they don't really understand,

497
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 5: so it's hard to talk to them when you're going

498
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 5: through something and you need to because a lot of

499
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 5: times you're just going to be judgmental and say negative

500
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 5: things that you don't really want to hear. So it's

501
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 5: helpful to have a friend that's another prison wife because

502
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 5: they understand what you're going through.

503
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: Yvette is also part of the food committee that Mary

504
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: created from her Facebook group. Remember the complaints the women

505
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: had about the vendor, who they say was selling them

506
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: rotten food for their family visits and had no option

507
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: but to buy from him. It's been over a month

508
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: at this point since they started mobilizing around it. The

509
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: women flagged over thirty complaints that families had been posting

510
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: in the Facebook group over the last year and a

511
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: half and sent them to CDCR. The women also called

512
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration and found

513
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: out that the vendor didn't have a seller's permit.

514
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: Now he can't sell to the families anymore. Because he

515
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: doesn't have a seller's permit and he's only contracted to

516
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: sell to the staff.

517
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: We've tried to figure out who's responsible for vetting and

518
00:28:53,280 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: approving the food vendor, but it's complicated. There are several

519
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: state agencies and intermediaries involved. In this case, it was

520
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: the Department of Rehabilitation, which is different from the Department

521
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: of Corrections, who hired the food vendor to run Donovan's cafe.

522
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: We were able to look at an agreement with the

523
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: food vendor signed in two thousand and seven, where their

524
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: signatures from both the Department of Rehabilitation and the Department

525
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: of Corrections. We reached out to the food vendor for comment,

526
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: but he referred us to the Department of Corrections or

527
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: CDCR for any questions. We reached out to CDCR to

528
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: ask who authorized the food vendor to sell fresh food

529
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: to the families for their overnight visits, but they didn't

530
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: provide any specific answers. They did confirm that the vendor

531
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: has not provided any services to the incarcerated population or

532
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: visitors since February twenty twenty three, that's the month when

533
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: I accompanied Mary to the prison. In any case, it

534
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: wasn't until the women investigated on on their own and

535
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: found out that the vendor wasn't allowed to sell fresh

536
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: food to families for their overnight visits. That state agencies

537
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: finally took action.

538
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: So this is the exit to get off to go

539
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: to the prison.

540
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: On the left side of the freeway. There are two

541
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: big Amazon warehouses behind them, some impressive dark green mountains

542
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: contrast with the dry planes were driving on.

543
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: So it's super close.

544
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: To the border.

545
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Donovan is literally an exit away from the border.

546
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: A group of concrete cubes emerges on the yellow plane,

547
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: all circled with barbed wire. They're all two stories high,

548
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: their windows long and unnecessarily narrow, like slacks on a

549
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: wood floor.

550
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: It just seems like I've been driving all day.

551
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: Two hours after leaving Pomona, we have arrived at RJ.

552
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego. We're inside the car

553
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: approaching the entrance cabin where a guard is standing. Recording

554
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: isn't allowed on the premises.

555
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: You had to put your microphone. Yeah, this is r.

556
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA. We find out how Mary

557
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: and Yvette's visits with their husbands went, and during that visit,

558
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: women get some unexpected news from the prison. Stay with us, Hey,

559
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: we're back. Before the break, we were in the car

560
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: driving with Mary Estrada and Yvette Carrion on their way

561
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: to RJ. Donovan. That's the prison in San Diego where

562
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: their husbands are incarcerated. We also learned about how Mary,

563
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: Yvette and other women mobilized to complain about the food

564
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: vendor who was serving for the family visits. They say

565
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: this person was selling them rotten food. But will California's

566
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation take any action in response?

567
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: Latino Usay senior producer Marta Martinez is going to pick

568
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: up the story from here.

569
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: It's almost nine am when we passed by the entrance.

570
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: Five women and one child are lined up waiting to

571
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: get in for their visits. Donovan didn't allow me to

572
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: go inside the prison because I wasn't an approved visitor

573
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: and recording audio isn't allowed inside the prison anyway, So

574
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: I waited for Mary and Divette at a nearby cafe. Okay,

575
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: more than four hours later, past one thirty pm, I

576
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: jump back into Mary's car and just to hear about

577
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: how their visits went. Maybe like there definitely know, but

578
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: Mary is already on a call with the women from

579
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: the Food Committee. While Mary and Yvette were inside visiting

580
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: their husbands, Archie Donovan issued a new food menu for

581
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: family visits.

582
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah like you got its stop Yeah, all orange juice

583
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: like those of beverages.

584
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: Since the previous vendor can't sell food to families anymore

585
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: because the women's complaints revealed that he didn't have a permit.

586
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: Now Donovan has come up with a new menu, a

587
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: very limited one.

588
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 5: Or they had like frozen bags with chicken tenders and

589
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 5: stuff like that.

590
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: The new menu only has five items families can purchase

591
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: for their two days days. Bananas a twenty five cents apiece,

592
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: apples at fifty cents each, greenmel peppers at fifty cents apiece,

593
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: bag salad for five dollars, and eggs six dollars for

594
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: a dozen. That's all the fresh food families can eat

595
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: for two days.

596
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 3: We need to sit down with Donovan to discuss the

597
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: prices and also the selections. And we can't throw out

598
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff out there because they're going to

599
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: reject it.

600
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: It's clear who the leader is. Mary jokes about how

601
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: much officers at Donovan love her.

602
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 5: I love you because you're here.

603
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad that you guys were working while we

604
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 3: weren't visiting.

605
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 4: You guys are easy all the time. It never ends, it's.

606
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: Always The women are very upset about the new food

607
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: menu and how limited it is. Mary worries about the

608
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: families who don't have doctor's notes like she does, and

609
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: who now might have fewer fresh food options than they

610
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: did before. This is an unexpected consequence of their advocacy.

611
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: But Mary, he still thinks they did the right thing

612
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: by exposing the vendor. They've been fighting for what they

613
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: think is right to be treated with dignity, and now

614
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: maybe some families will have it worse, or we'll get

615
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: more doctor's notes. It seems that whatever the women are

616
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: fighting to improve at Donovan, the outcome is never what

617
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: they envisioned. So they pick up the next fight with

618
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: a prison system that punishes them too. And it's exhausting.

619
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 3: So tell me America did the visico this morning was

620
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 3: hard and processing because they delayed me forty minutes. But

621
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 3: other than that, after I got to the visiting yard,

622
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 3: it was good. After seeing my husband, we talked about

623
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: our family visit. What I was going to order for

624
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: our food, and then we talked about our grandkids and

625
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 3: how he wants to see them. I said, in the

626
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 3: summer and they'll come. And then we talked about Yvette

627
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: and her husband and that was about it.

628
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 4: So you bet, can you tell me about how you're.

629
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: In the beginning, it was bad because I waited for

630
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 5: an hour for him to come out, and then when

631
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 5: he did, I was just so upset. So I wasted

632
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 5: another like twenty thirty minutes just be mad at him

633
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 5: and arguing with him instead of enjoying my visit. What

634
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 5: happened He decided to wait last minute to take a shower,

635
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 5: And I think I need to be more understanding because

636
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 5: he does really have ocdu when it comes to his hygiene.

637
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 5: Sometimes I just feel like he just doesn't value my

638
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 5: effort in my time sometimes, like I get it he

639
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 5: cares about his looks and all that, but at the

640
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: same time, we only get limited hours to be together

641
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 5: during visits, so I just feel like they shouldn't be wasted,

642
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 5: and I feel like sometimes he just takes that for granted,

643
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 5: and I think that's pretty selfish.

644
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: And yes I did when they be saying.

645
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 5: That I need to be more understanding that he can't

646
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 5: control everything, and he's always reminding me that he's in

647
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: prison and there's rules. They don't get to just do

648
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 5: whatever they want when they want.

649
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 3: But then he.

650
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 5: Apologized, and then I apologized, and we finished our visit

651
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 5: really good. I'm just sitting there and talking about our

652
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 5: upcoming family visit.

653
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 4: I'm gonna work on being.

654
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 5: More understanding and patient because I know sometimes I could

655
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 5: be impatient as well.

656
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to understand these women's unwavering commitment.

657
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: I tell them, I don't think a lot of people

658
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: could do it. They're also very open about their frustrations

659
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: with their husbands, yet here they are most weekends.

660
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 4: It's a big commitment. Yeah, it is very good. So

661
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 4: why keep doing that? Why keep coming? Why keep taking

662
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 4: care of him? Because I love him?

663
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm in love with him, so I don't mind

664
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 5: doing it. We can't help we and yes, like our

665
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 5: loved ones, had made mistakes, but people do change, and

666
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 5: not everyone in those walls are bad people. They're human,

667
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 5: just like us, and everyone makes mistakes.

668
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: Mary hents me a photo she took with Robert in

669
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the morning during her visit. When she gets home, Mary's

670
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: gonna place the photo in one of her many albums

671
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: that is also part of her ritual. Both Mary and

672
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: Davette are already planning and saving for the family visit

673
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: next month. They'll be spending two days and two nights

674
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: inside Donovan Prison, on the other side of the barbed wire.

675
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: I tell them that in a way, even when they're

676
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: out here, it's like they're in prison too.

677
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, believe me. When I fight with my husband,

678
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: oh my god, I tell him, you think you're the

679
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: fucking only one doing this journey. I said, I'm the

680
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: one incarcerated with the financial burdens. You have it easy.

681
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 3: And he gets all quiet because he knows it's true.

682
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: Evening, so traffic is getting heavier on the never ending freeway.

683
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: Mary decides to take a shortcut and drives through some

684
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: secondary roads and then about an hour later we arrive

685
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: at the wall or parking lot to drop off your bed.

686
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: See, and your car is still hear you be and Mary,

687
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: we gotta like really to protest because yes.

688
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 5: They're annoying already. Bananas and pepper and eggs.

689
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

690
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, be careful.

691
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 3: You see we left in the dark and we're coming

692
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: back in the dark.

693
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty crazy. As the sky turns dark and

694
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: the traffic gets heavier, the freeway becomes a strip of

695
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: dancing white and red lights. Mary's face melts into the

696
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: night as she drives, and then it gets illuminated again

697
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: by the phone screen hanging below the rear mirror. The

698
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: faces of three women appear on the screen. It's another

699
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: impromptu meeting of the food committee.

700
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 5: What menu, diarrhea, eggs and lettuce.

701
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: The conversation makes the long journey back home more palatable.

702
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: The questions for Mary keep coming, but so do the laughs,

703
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,479
Speaker 1: and there's also a sense of community. They're not doing

704
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: this journey alone. Mary has found her calling. Mary says

705
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: she's very proud of the women in her committee. It's

706
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 1: the best committee she's ever had. The women are smart and.

707
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: Fears Virginia, Jen Jasmine, Lisa, Yvette, Wanica. You know, they're

708
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 3: all strong and they believe in the fighting, and that's

709
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: what I need. I can't fight for everybody. They have

710
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: to fight for themselves and for their loved ones. And

711
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: it's hard to come across women that are one hundred

712
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 3: percent and the prison life. The majority of the visitors

713
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: are women. Then I had a conversation with my husband

714
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: about that two weeks ago, and I told him I've

715
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 3: had to put my life on hold all these years,

716
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: so when is it going to be my chain to live?

717
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: And his answer to me was, well, you knew what

718
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: you were getting yourself into, which was a cheap shot.

719
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 3: And I told him, you know, I don't have to

720
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: be here. I choose to be here because I love you.

721
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: But let's not get it twisted. Keep pushing me and

722
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 3: you can do your journey by yourself. This is all

723
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 3: I really know is how to be a prison wife,

724
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 3: how to advocate for your rights. But as to having

725
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: another relationship, I wouldn't even know how to deal with that,

726
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 3: and I don't want to.

727
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: At the end of the cul a Sac, we finally

728
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: see Mary's house with its well kept long It's almost

729
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: seven pm. It's been more than twelve hours since we

730
00:41:59,200 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: started disturbed.

731
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: Oh it's good to be home. Yeah I made it.

732
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 4: Yes, Oh thank god.

733
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: Once Mary gets inside, she's going to have to make

734
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: more calls, answer more messages from her Facebook group, and

735
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: then hopefully Robert will call to say good night. Luckily,

736
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: tomorrow is President's Day, so she'll be able to rest

737
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: a bit, but most weekends she won't be able to

738
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: do that. She'll just go straight back to work, back

739
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: to her other life.

740
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: That was Mary's story as we aired it back in

741
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. But our producer Marta recently caught up

742
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: with Mary because well, she's been through a lot over

743
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: the past couple of years, and there's some dramatic updates.

744
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: Here's Martha again. Mary, it's so good to see you.

745
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: Same here, really very very good to see you, and

746
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: you look super beautiful. Oh thank you. That's very sweet.

747
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: But I do notice that you've lost quite a lot

748
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: of weight.

749
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've lost seventy three pounds to be exact.

750
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So yeah, can you tell us what happened.

751
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 3: My daughter, Samantha, she was going through a lot, she

752
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 3: got divorced. You met this guy. He was physically abusing

753
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 3: her and probably abusing her. But then I had said

754
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 3: to her, what is it going to take for you

755
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 3: to leave him? He's going to kill you, right, So

756
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: her boyfriend took her away for the weekend Chattanooga, and

757
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: I guess they started doing drugs and she overdosed on Pentanol,

758
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. Thank you.

759
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: You got to see Samantha at the hospital.

760
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. The minute got to the hospital and I

761
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: saw her laying there and she was connected to the tubes.

762
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: I just like, I don't remember if I fell to

763
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: my knees, but I know that I was crying and

764
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 3: I was telling her to wake up. And then she

765
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: opened up her eyes and was just like looking at me.

766
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 3: But I knew it wasn't her. It was just a reflex,

767
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: but just to see her brown eyes open, and I

768
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: just got telling her, I'm here, Mom's here, My Mom's

769
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: going to fix it. And I couldn't fix it, Marta.

770
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 3: I couldn't fix it.

771
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: You can't do everything. Mary, You couldn't do anything about it. No,

772
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: Samantha was your only.

773
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 3: Daughter, My only daughter, Yeah.

774
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: And the daughter you had with Robert. What was it

775
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: like for Robert.

776
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: The day that it happened. I couldn't tell him. I

777
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: was on the phone with him, and it was the

778
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: hardest thing for me to even bring up. And I

779
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: waited till the next morning because I had to like

780
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 3: tell him in a soft way so he wouldn't, you know,

781
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: go off and get in trouble. And so The next morning,

782
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 3: he called me and he was just like, what's wrong?

783
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: And I told him, I said, Samantha passed away, and

784
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: he saw, what do you mean she passed away? And

785
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: telling him, I kept breaking down. It was so hard, Marda,

786
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: so hard. Yeah, so he cries a lot. I just

787
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 3: feel like I'm I just walk around here like chicken

788
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: without a head. Hmmm. I don't have a will to live,

789
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: but I have to live. So I have my grandkids.

790
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: So is that what gives you hope?

791
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially Cassie, the oldest one, because Samantha is me

792
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 3: and Cassie is Samantha, so she's she's like this little

793
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: diva and she cracks me up because I always ask her,

794
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 3: I said, why do you call me girl? And she goes,

795
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 3: because you're my girl.

796
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: I hope you and Robert at least can comfort each

797
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: other and you still have your family visits, right.

798
00:45:59,400 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 4: Oh.

799
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I got a phone

800
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: call from a prison wife. If she's a mother, she

801
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: has family visits a Thursday, and she has cancer. So

802
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: the new family visiting coordinator told her that she cannot

803
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 3: bring her doctor's note. That's not allowed anymore. And I said,

804
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: she can't implement that. So I swore up and down

805
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 3: that I was not going to do a movement, and

806
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: I'm getting ready to do a movement.

807
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: Look at that. Why am I not surprised? And not

808
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: only that, you are also part of this class action

809
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: lawsuit against some of the guards at Richard J. Donovan Prison.

810
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: You and other people who were visiting family members, were

811
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: required to undergo an inclothed search. Yes, without any real,

812
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: quote unquote reasonable suspicion that you would commit any kind

813
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: of illegal action like smuggling things into the prison. And

814
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: you won. We won. In twenty twenty four, you reached

815
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: a settlement agreement. Yeah, and the defendants will have to

816
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: pay a total amount of three point five million dollars.

817
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a big win too. It was a

818
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: very big win. And I don't want to sound greedy,

819
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: but it came at the right time because I was

820
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 3: able to have her cremate it and brought home to me.

821
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: I mean, last year I almost filed for bankruptcy and

822
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 3: then this came in at the right time. And it's

823
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 3: like every day last year I was crying, like I

824
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 3: can't take this baby, Why do I have to suffer?

825
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 3: I guess I was having a pity party and he

826
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 3: saw you better stop. That's not my wife.

827
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: I feel like you just can't help it. You're always

828
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: going to be fighting for something, Mary, I think so.

829
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: I think I was put on this earth for that.

830
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 3: But we'll see.

831
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mary for your time.

832
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 3: Thank you, You're very welcome. Take care.

833
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Marta Martinez. It was edited

834
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: by Daisy Contreras. It was mixed by Stephanie Lebau and

835
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 2: Julia Caruso. In fact checking for this episode by Monica Morales. Garcia.

836
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 2: Fernanda Echavari is our managing editor. The Latino USA team

837
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: also includes Roxanna Guire, Jessica Elis, Rebecca, Bara Rinaldo, Leanos Junior,

838
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Luis Luna Doloriman Marquez, Jugeta Martinelli, Balo Marperez, jj Carube,

839
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: Annelo Reuez, and Nancy Truquillo. Pemile Ramirez and I are

840
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: executive producers. I'm Your Host Marie no Josa. Latino USA

841
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 2: is part of Iheart's Michael Duda podcast Network. Executive producers

842
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: at iHeart are Leo Gomes and Arlene Santana. Join us

843
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: again on our next episode and in the meantime, look

844
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: for us and look for me on all kinds of

845
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: social media, especially on Instagram and Dear listener, if you

846
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847
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848
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Speaker 3: Yes Yes.

851
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: Latino USA is made possible in part by Public Welfare Foundation,

852
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,560
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853
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,480
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854
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855
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856
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857
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