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Speaker 1: The show goes on. This is the official show on

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Speaker 1: the fish Stripes podcast channel with me Eli Sussman, the

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Speaker 1: managing editor of f Stripes, where we cover your Miami

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Speaker 1: Marlins every day in our own way. Your subscriptions, ratings,

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Speaker 1: and reviews are immensely appreciated. For sixteen seasons two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two to twenty seventeen, David Samson presided over the

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Speaker 1: Marlins franchise. He won a World Series championship in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three and did very little winning beyond that.

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Speaker 1: He applied the pressure on Miami Dade County to fund

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Speaker 1: Marlins Park, but settled on a location that most Marlins

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Speaker 1: fans found to be inconvenient. The baseball operations department, assembled

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Speaker 1: by Samson acquired many of the top talents in Marlins's history.

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Speaker 1: The problem was retaining them and surrounding them with complimentary pieces.

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Speaker 1: Under Samson and his former stepfather, Jeffrey Lauria, the Marlins

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Speaker 1: were notorious for pinching pennies and cutting corners in ways

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Speaker 1: that were detrimental to the product on the field. The

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Speaker 1: fan base understandably became angry and later apathetic fists strips

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Speaker 1: wanted to dive beneath the surface of Samson's biggest decisions

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Speaker 1: and get his perspective on how the Marlins have fared

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Speaker 1: without him. It was impossible to cover everything in a

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Speaker 1: single conversation, but if you find this episode valuable, please

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Speaker 1: let us know and we'll arrange part two in the

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Speaker 1: near future. Here's our interview with David Samson. We are

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Speaker 1: joined by a special guest on the official show, co

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Speaker 1: hosting with Isacazoot. I'm Eli Susman. Thanks to everybody tuning

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Speaker 1: in through YouTube. In addition to all the usual podcast

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Speaker 1: places where you find fish strips. Five years removed from

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Speaker 1: David Samson's turbulent tenure as Miami Marlins president, the man

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Speaker 1: himself is here. He's the host of Nothing Personal with

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Speaker 1: David Samson. You can find him on Twitter at David P. Samson.

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Speaker 1: Isaac and I have questions about your Marlin's days, and

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Speaker 1: we appreciate your perspective on some current events as well,

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much for the time. David.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's my pleasure. Is it's still a thing to

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Speaker 2: say what our Twitter handle is? Or is that not

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Speaker 2: a thing anymore? It's not a huge party introduction, right.

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Speaker 2: You can find on Twitter at David P.

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Speaker 3: Samson.

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Speaker 2: Now people are like ducking for covers. Say no, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm not on that anymore, but I am to.

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Speaker 1: The magic graphics. We have it scrolling on the screen

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Speaker 1: as well. With David, when we reached out to you,

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Speaker 1: originally we were planning a lot of distant lookbacks, but

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Speaker 1: there have been some current events with the Marlins that

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Speaker 1: you very personally have a great perspective on, we think,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna start with a positive, which is Jeff Conine,

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Speaker 1: mister Marlin coming back as an advisor to Bruce Sherman.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a similar role to what he had under

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Speaker 1: your tenure with the organization. I know you know Jeff extremely,

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Speaker 1: extremely well. When did you get a feeling when did

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Speaker 1: you know that he was being hired? In just your

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Speaker 1: general thoughts on him coming back, I.

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Speaker 2: Think I had a feeling the minute Derek got fired

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Speaker 2: that Jeff was going to be back with the organization.

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Speaker 3: I think that was a big thing.

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Speaker 2: When Derek was there, he really wanted nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with anything from the old regime, whether it was the

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Speaker 2: color of the floor or anybody's face who possibly had

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Speaker 2: any relationship to me, And so one of the first

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Speaker 2: things they did is make a token offer. Derek did

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Speaker 2: not Bruce, but Derek made a token offer to Andre

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Speaker 2: Dawson and Tony Perez and Jeff Conine and Jack mckeonn

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Speaker 2: and all four of them summarily turned it down because

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Speaker 2: it was so embarrassing. When I came to Florida. Note two,

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Speaker 2: we had a list of employees because we inherited all

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Speaker 2: of the Marlins employees on the business side, and we

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Speaker 2: took our baseball employees with us from Montreal, and on

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Speaker 2: a list was Andre Dawson and Tony Perez and I said, wait,

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Speaker 2: what do they do here? And I remember meeting with

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Speaker 2: them for the first time and my first thought was,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, yes, please stay. And that was the

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Speaker 2: beginning of basically sixteen years with them. And then once

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Speaker 2: Jeff retired, we brought him back in three won a ring,

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Speaker 2: and then once he retired, I had him back immediately

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Speaker 2: as an assistant, and him and Andre and Tony and

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Speaker 2: I we watched every game together for all those years.

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Speaker 2: But when Derek took over, he got rid of him.

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Speaker 2: And as soon as Derek left, I had a feeling

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Speaker 2: that Bruce Sherman, he's a smart man. He knows what

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Speaker 2: Jeff Conine means to the Marlins history. He's a common

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Speaker 2: thread to the two World championships that the Marlins have

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Speaker 2: in their thirty years, and having him there is good

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Speaker 2: for the players, it's good for the staff, it's just

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Speaker 2: good for every everybody, good for the community. So I'm

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Speaker 2: really really happy for the Marlins and for jeff.

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Speaker 4: Follow up on that really quick, David, do you think

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Speaker 4: they'll end up retiring as number?

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Speaker 2: So you know, we had a conversation about retired numbers

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Speaker 2: almost every year. We inherited one retired number, which was

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Speaker 2: number five, which was retired in honor of Carl Barger,

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Speaker 2: who was the first president of the Marlins, who never

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Speaker 2: actually got to see a game because he passed away

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Speaker 2: way too early and suddenly before the Marlins even started playing.

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Speaker 2: But after the franchise was granted, and one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest arguments I had with Jeffrey Laurier, the owner, is

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Speaker 2: when Jeffrey unretired that number for Logan Morrison, and I

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Speaker 2: was extremely angry about that, and I love Logan. He

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Speaker 2: and I are still in touch. Look at me, David,

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Speaker 2: but seriously, we're still in touch. And I just found

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Speaker 2: it to be. Once the numbers retired, it should stay retired.

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Speaker 2: So we talked about should it be Jim Leland, should

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Speaker 2: it be Jack McKeon. You know, Luis Castillo number one

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Speaker 2: is one of the all time great Marlins. What about

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Speaker 2: the World Series MVPs, something with Levaughn, And we just

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Speaker 2: had a feeling that if there were going to be

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Speaker 2: a number for me, it was going to be CO nine.

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Speaker 3: But remember he had two different.

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Speaker 2: Numbers with the Marlins, so he was both eighteen and nineteen.

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Speaker 2: When he came back, he was a different number because

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Speaker 2: Lowell was on the team. So we ended up just

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Speaker 2: not retiring any numbers. And I don't know that they'll

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Speaker 2: retire a number, and if they do, CO nine to

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Speaker 2: me would be the first in line. I thought, you know,

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Speaker 2: when we signed Stanton, that we'd all stay around for

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Speaker 2: Stanton to retire in Marlin, and that he'd be the

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Speaker 2: first retiring twenty seven, which would have been very interesting

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Speaker 2: because twenty seven. The first team I was with the

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Speaker 2: Expos twenty seven was Vladimir Guerrero, So twenty seven has

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Speaker 2: always been a number that I related to and I

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Speaker 2: wanted that.

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Speaker 3: To be the first retired number. But I'm not there.

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Speaker 3: He's not there, so I don't know what they're going to.

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Speaker 4: Do, all right, And you know, I'm sure you read

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Speaker 4: the news the Marlins will not be renewing the contract

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Speaker 4: of Glenn Geffner, a brutal loss for the organization. In

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Speaker 4: my opinion, you guys worked together for ten years. I

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Speaker 4: was just curious your thoughts. One whose decision is it

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, you know, so was

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Speaker 4: it you personally who brought him in when you joined

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Speaker 4: the Marlins?

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Speaker 3: Three two to Jazz Runner holds.

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Speaker 2: Jazz smokes one right center, way back toward.

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Speaker 3: The bullpen, and out of here for the second time tonight.

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Speaker 3: The on one pitch, Jazz gets into one way back,

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Speaker 3: right center toward.

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Speaker 1: The bullpen and up onto the whole run port to

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Speaker 1: run Homer.

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Speaker 3: Some icing on the cake for the Marlins. Chishem number

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Speaker 3: fourteen and it's six to one.

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Speaker 2: So as president of the team, I certainly know about

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Speaker 2: the hires that are going on on the broadcast radio side,

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Speaker 2: and I would meet with the broadcasters. But I had

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Speaker 2: a department head named PJ. Loyelo who was in charge

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Speaker 2: of broadcasting, and he would come to me with his recommendations,

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Speaker 2: We listened to a bunch of tapes, We watched a

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Speaker 2: bunch of videos. When hiring TV people in conjunction with Fox,

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Speaker 2: just to help the audience for the TV we had

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Speaker 2: a right of a look basically, but Fox did the hiring.

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Speaker 2: But if we wanted someone there or someone gone, Fox

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Speaker 2: would take that under consideration, but it was their call

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day. On the radio side,

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Speaker 2: it was always our call to both hire and fire,

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Speaker 2: and so Glenn Geffner was brought in by PJ. And

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Speaker 2: when I sat with Glenn, what struck me about him,

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Speaker 2: and I believe he had come from Boston is his

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Speaker 2: ability to not just call games, but what he did

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Speaker 2: on the PR side, what he did on the marketing side.

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Speaker 2: He was just an ambassador of your product and of

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Speaker 2: your team, and his voice was good and he was

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Speaker 2: the perfect.

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Speaker 3: Partner for Dave Van Horn, the Hall of Famer.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very disappointed he's gone because I thought that

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Speaker 2: he would retire there and even potentially be in the

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Speaker 2: Hall of Fame, you know, in thirty years.

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Speaker 3: He's that good.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's a big loss for the Marlins

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Speaker 2: off the field, not just in the radio. Booth. But again,

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Speaker 2: the people who are running the organization have their reasons

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Speaker 2: and you have to respect it and move forward because

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's really their decision now.

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Speaker 2: So Glenn hopefully will land on his feet because some

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Speaker 2: team would be very happy to have them and lucky

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Speaker 2: to have them.

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Speaker 1: We're speaking with David on Thursday, which is the day

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Speaker 1: after San Diel Contra officially won unanimously the National League

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Speaker 1: Say Young Award. I'm in this morning the day after.

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Speaker 1: Immediately I get this email from the Marlins about now

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Speaker 1: selling the cy Young of course with ticket packages and

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Speaker 1: all the opportunities that that unlocks to have somebody recognize

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Speaker 1: with that award. I'm sure this is something you may

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Speaker 1: have thought about, with the potential, the marketing, the revenue

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Speaker 1: potential that comes with having this major award recognition. We

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Speaker 1: know that d Train got pretty close in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five. I'm sure when Jose Fernandez came up, you

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Speaker 1: were dreaming of him winning with cy Young. How would

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Speaker 1: you like articulate how important this is potentially to a

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Speaker 1: team trying to generate interest in the season ticket packages,

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Speaker 1: everything along the else lines.

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Speaker 2: So listen, I talked about this a little bit on

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Speaker 2: nothing personal, and the reality is when you win on

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Speaker 2: the field, that's what you sell. Even though we tell

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Speaker 2: our salespeople don't sell wins and losses because you don't

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Speaker 2: control it. At the end of the day, winning is

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Speaker 2: the best medicine to increasing revenue. But if you can't

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Speaker 2: sell winning, then you sell individual accomplishments. So we would

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Speaker 2: always promote if we had a Gold Glove winner or

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Speaker 2: a Silver Slugger winner or any sort of individual anything,

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Speaker 2: even if they're finishing the top three or they're a finalist,

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Speaker 2: because you want to generate interest and you want to

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Speaker 2: on opening day present an award to a player that

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Speaker 2: they get as a way to help sell tickets for

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Speaker 2: opening Day and to help generate interest one spring training starts.

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Speaker 2: We always wanted a Si Young an Award winner because

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Speaker 2: two things the franchise never had Si Young Award winner

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Speaker 2: and a division win and a cycle. No one's ever

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Speaker 2: hit for the cycle in Marlin's history, which is crazy

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Speaker 2: to me how many no hitters we have or they

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Speaker 2: have now with no cycles. So what you do when

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Speaker 2: you have a Si Young Award winner is you start

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Speaker 2: generating ticket packages and you're trying to get people to

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Speaker 2: just get their foot in the door. So the reason

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Speaker 2: why you see ticket packages that are anywhere from ten

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Speaker 2: games up to all eighty games is it's like a

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Speaker 2: pipeline of saling, of selling, and you want people at

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Speaker 2: different stages of the pipeline. And so you want people

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Speaker 2: starting to just come to a game and then come

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Speaker 2: to multiple games, and then buy a flex season ticket package,

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Speaker 2: and then buy a half a season ticket and so

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Speaker 2: on and so forth. So Sandy winning as a catalyst

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Speaker 2: for that. In terms of actual dollars that they will

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Speaker 2: generate by promoting Sandy as the si Young Award winner,

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Speaker 2: it is deminimous, but it does look good in marketing,

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Speaker 2: no question.

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Speaker 5: The Siuo Award winner for this year is nonetheless Sandykanta,

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Speaker 5: Dominican Pride and pretty soon to be the Dominican Dollar.

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Speaker 5: Where Hoppy, very happy, very happy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I guess that was a good time to maybe

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Speaker 4: sort of go into your tenure as president. And I

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Speaker 4: think one of the common misconceptions with you at Jeffrey's

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Speaker 4: regime was that you weren't willing to spend and that

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Speaker 4: you guys were achieve and I think that's you inaccurate.

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Speaker 4: I would believe that what irked fans maybe a little

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Speaker 4: bit more was the wild fluctuations in payroll. You know,

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Speaker 4: from one year to the next, you know, for example,

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Speaker 4: from five to six and twelve to thirteen. So I guess,

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Speaker 4: what could possibly you know justify slashing payroll to the

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Speaker 4: extreme degree that you guys did, when really no other

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Speaker 4: teams are doing it that way.

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Speaker 3: I love that question, and it's great. So here's the answer.

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Speaker 2: If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: ripped off the band aid the way I did. But

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Speaker 2: I always felt as though ripping a band aid was

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Speaker 2: better than taking it off and getting one hair pulled

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Speaker 2: out at a time. And so the theory there is

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Speaker 2: that if you know, the best low revenue teams have

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Speaker 2: the front offices who are the most aware of when

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Speaker 2: their winning window is open, and when they're winning window

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Speaker 2: is closed. It's now called the rebuild it or tanking.

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Speaker 2: Right it became popular people tank. What tanking really means

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Speaker 2: is that your windows closed and instead of just being

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Speaker 2: in the middle, and that's the one thing you learn

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Speaker 2: in President's School, you don't want to be in the middle.

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Speaker 2: Winning eighty games does nothing for your franchise. Winning ninety

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Speaker 2: games and making the playoffs. That does something. Winning sixty

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Speaker 2: games and getting a high pick that does something potentially

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Speaker 2: down the line. But being in the middle is not

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Speaker 2: very helpful, and the biggest mistake we made actually, if

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Speaker 2: you think about it, we kept being in the middle

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Speaker 2: for way too long. If you look at our records

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Speaker 2: were eighty three and seventy nine, seventy nine and eighty

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Speaker 2: three in that range. We kept teams together for too long.

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Speaker 2: So let's go to the dan Ugla Rain with Cody

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Speaker 2: Ross and Jorge Cantu in that group. That was a

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Speaker 2: fun group, but we could never get over the hump.

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Speaker 2: We were close to nine, but we could never get

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Speaker 2: over the hump. And then we got a new ballpark,

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Speaker 2: so we had a plan to build into the new

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Speaker 2: ballpark to keep increasing payroll. So our payroll went up

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Speaker 2: in ten and an eleven and then in twelve. But

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Speaker 2: what we did from eleven to twelve is we went

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Speaker 2: too high. Instead of making it a calmer ascent, we

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Speaker 2: poured money into the payroll, and then the team stunk,

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Speaker 2: And that's our fault because we didn't have the right

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Speaker 2: players and we weren't ready to win. The best front

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Speaker 2: offices are ready to win when it's time to win,

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Speaker 2: and you sprinkle in some free agents. We thought we

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Speaker 2: had the right players, Sprinkle in a Rais and a Bell,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you've got yourself a winning team.

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Speaker 2: Remember how good Handley was at that point, and it

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Speaker 2: just didn't happen for us.

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Speaker 4: Driving the air the right failed, Stanton going back and

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Speaker 4: it's over.

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Speaker 3: Instead of the match to win it Kirk clew and

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Speaker 3: Heights with a walk off hit.

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Speaker 5: We had the Mitch rolley against he fell at the

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Speaker 5: bottom of the nith and.

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Speaker 3: They sweeped the Marlans, winning at three to two and so.

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Speaker 2: And then after twelve, when we were losing that much

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Speaker 2: money and our window was closing, we ripped off the

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Speaker 2: band aid in that trade for Toronto, which ended up

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Speaker 2: being a good baseball trade, not terrible.

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Speaker 3: Pr trade, just terrible, worst ever And I regret that.

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Speaker 2: I regret how harsh I was about that trade, especially

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Speaker 2: right after the new ballpark. I regret what happened with

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Speaker 2: Ozzie and Fidel Castro. That was terrible. So so many

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Speaker 2: things went wrong, and we tried to build it up again,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we had some good players again, and

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Speaker 2: we did We're doing well. We had Yelich and Standonozuna

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Speaker 2: and JT and Jose, but even those players couldn't win

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Speaker 2: eighty one games. But we kept saying, there's got to

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Speaker 2: be something wrong. Next year we'll get him. And then

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Speaker 2: obviously the tragedy with Jose and the rest is history.

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Speaker 2: And that's sort of again maybe too long an answer,

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Speaker 2: but listen, if you not good, like the Tampa Bay

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Speaker 2: Rays are good and knowing when their window is or

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Speaker 2: the Oakland A's look at what the Oakland is, right,

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Speaker 2: they had a great run of playoff appearances last season,

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Speaker 2: they lost one hundred games, their windows closed, and then

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Speaker 2: they're gonna slowly build up for when their window opens again.

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Speaker 2: We just never did it well from a timing standpoint

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Speaker 2: or a PR standpoint.

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Speaker 4: And you mentioned that twenty twelve trade. It was great

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Speaker 4: baseball traders, I agree with. Maybe we can get into

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Speaker 4: that a little bit later, but it was horrible for PR.

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Speaker 4: Does it ever make sense as a president to do

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Speaker 4: something that doesn't make the most sense baseball wise, but

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Speaker 4: it really will keep fans saying, oh, it's not the

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Speaker 4: same thing anymore. So at that point already it was like,

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Speaker 4: oh shit, here we go again.

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Speaker 3: It's right.

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Speaker 2: The problem is I never wanted to listen to anything

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Speaker 2: that the media or the fans were saying, because I

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Speaker 2: wanted to. When I first got into baseball, Jim Beattie

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Speaker 2: was the first general manager I ever had, and he was

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Speaker 2: a World Series winning pitcher for the Yankees. He was

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Speaker 2: the GM of the Expos, and we kept him as

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Speaker 2: GM when we got there, and he told me, David,

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Speaker 2: one thing you're going to have to learn is if

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Speaker 2: you start listening to the fans and the media, you

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Speaker 2: will soon be amongst them, meaning you will lose your job.

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Speaker 2: Your job is to get rid of that and do

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Speaker 2: what you think is best for the organization. You're not

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Speaker 2: going to be right all the time. Find me a

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Speaker 2: team president or any team forget team president. Find me

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Speaker 2: any of the thirty teams who doesn't regret a trade

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Speaker 2: they've made or a signing they've made. Find me a

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Speaker 2: market where people in the market don't complain about a

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Speaker 2: signing or a trade. That's part of being a fan,

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Speaker 2: and I love that. That's the emotional side. But I

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Speaker 2: went too far. I became like robotic and just totally

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Speaker 2: ignored anything other than what I in a tunnel thought

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Speaker 2: was right for the team, and that probably was obviously

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Speaker 2: was a mistake.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, fair enough, and I think unequally big an issue

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Speaker 4: was a lock of investment in analytics. You know, your

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Speaker 4: tenure overlaps almost perfectly with the rise of events, stats,

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Speaker 4: player projections, statcast, et cetera. But you compare to other

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Speaker 4: MLB teams, you guys didn't really hire many people to

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Speaker 4: help analyze that data. What's your explanation for that?

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Speaker 3: That's actually just wrongs right.

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Speaker 2: So, Larry Binfest, who you would say is an old

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Speaker 2: school GM, he was using analytics before analytics were called analytics,

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Speaker 2: But so are all the other teams. Analytics are an

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Speaker 2: arrow that you put in your quiver as you look

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Speaker 2: to evaluate a player. To this day, I will tell

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Speaker 2: you that if you do only analytics, you're not going

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Speaker 2: to be successful. You have to use your eyes. You

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Speaker 2: have to look into a player's eyes. You have to

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Speaker 2: understand game situations. I agree with math because I'm a

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Speaker 2: math guy. But sports is not math.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: In math, there's either a right answer or wrong answer.

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Speaker 2: It's black and white. Sports is gray. There are different

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Speaker 2: heart rates that you have to know about players who

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Speaker 2: can perform in certain situations, and I can look at

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Speaker 2: the numbers of who's good in leverage situation or close

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Speaker 2: and late, what their batting average is. But I'm still

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Speaker 2: going to go deeper, and Jack McKeon taught me this.

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Speaker 2: I'm still going to go deeper and look at a

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Speaker 2: player that particular day, that particular moment. So we always

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Speaker 2: used a mix, and I think what you're seeing now

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Speaker 2: in baseball is that the roles have changed.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Managers are not making gut instinctual calls. They're not allowed to.

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Speaker 2: Front offices are making lineups. We never made a lineup.

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Speaker 2: We would talk to our manager about what we wanted

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Speaker 2: and sometimes the manager would say screw off, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: we'd talk it through and he'd agree. Now the lineup

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Speaker 2: is generated by the front office every day. The pitching rotation,

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Speaker 2: who comes in when is generated by the front office.

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Speaker 2: But you've got some managers who deny that because they

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Speaker 2: don't want to look emasculated.

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Speaker 3: But that's just not the case.

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Speaker 2: Therefore, the incremental advantage of analytics is sort of like

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Speaker 2: the incremental advantage of the shift. It was really good

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Speaker 2: when only one team was doing it, but when every

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Speaker 2: team does it, what exactly is the benefit that you

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Speaker 2: have over your competition.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that passes the smell test totally, David,

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Speaker 1: because you're right that every team was using analytics to

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Speaker 1: some extents, but by all accounts, your analytics department through

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Speaker 1: those years was perhaps the smallest in the entire league.

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Speaker 1: That it it's more effective generally if you are hiring

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Speaker 1: more analysts or in some way investing more into getting

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Speaker 1: the right types of information. So that's kind of what people,

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Speaker 1: what I think fans naturally will take. Exception two is

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Speaker 1: that I hear you you should have done more in

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Speaker 1: terms of building out that staff to keep up instead

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Speaker 1: of lagging kind of all the way at the bottom

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Speaker 1: in terms of the size of the staff that you had.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great question.

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Speaker 2: But also remember I'm in charge of a budget, and

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Speaker 2: I would always rather spend money on major league players.

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Speaker 2: And let's just say that you want to put in

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Speaker 2: four hundred thousand dollars into an analytics department, and you

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Speaker 2: want to hire five guys at eighty grand five people,

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Speaker 2: excuse me, at eighty thousand dollars, or ten people at

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Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars, And the question is when you have

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to move money in different places. We had

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Speaker 2: a limited budget because, whether you want to believe it

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Speaker 2: or not, I was there. I know what years Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: had to write checks, cash checks at the end of

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Speaker 2: a year. I know exactly what years he didn't and

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Speaker 2: the overwhelming majority of the time he had to write checks. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: we had to make decisions in our budget, and I

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Speaker 2: will tell you that I chose against analytics more often

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Speaker 2: than I didn't because the managers we had and the

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Speaker 2: front office we had, they felt they had enough information.

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Speaker 2: And if you asked them, hey, do you want a

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Speaker 2: minor league free agent who has a chance to make

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Speaker 2: the team. Do you want an extra few of those

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Speaker 2: in spring training? Or do you want two other guys

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Speaker 2: at forty thousand dollars? Every time they chose give me

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Speaker 2: the extra body, give me the extra player, because you

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Speaker 2: never know who's going to work out for us.

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Speaker 3: And that's how we did it today.

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Speaker 2: If I were running a team, of course, I would

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Speaker 2: budget more for analytics and less for marketing, because winning,

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Speaker 2: it turns out, is the best marketing.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious as we are creeping closer and closer to

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Speaker 1: the World Baseball Classic in Miami. You had the twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen for a portion of the tournament, but they have

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Speaker 1: really expanded Miami's participation in all the games that are

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Speaker 1: being hosted there, including the finals, including the absolutely most

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Speaker 1: highly anticipated games down there. I'm just wondering how jealous

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Speaker 1: you might be that now Lone Deepot Park formerly Marlins Park,

437
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: is the home of the Classic, whereas back in twenty

438
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: seventeen you only got a slice of it.

439
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a rotation. So if I had been around longer,

440
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 2: it was gonna come to Miami. The one thing that

441
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: I hope they do better than I did, and I

442
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: was an abject failure at this. I could not convert

443
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 2: any of those people who came to the World Baseball

444
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 2: Classic into season ticket holders. And we tried everything. We

445
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: tried to tie tickets to season tickets. We tried to

446
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: do We had salespeople walking around the stadium during those

447
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 2: games because there were so many people there. And you

448
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: heard what the Marlins are saying now, saying, Hey, we're

449
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: going to have a full stadium for all these rounds.

450
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: We're going to get these people and teach them to

451
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: be Marlins fans and to come to games that is

452
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: the dream.

453
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 3: Great play for the maxutto the second for may Machudo.

454
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: You are unbelievable. He's already won two, go go on.

455
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 5: You can fit him for another dozen.

456
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 2: As far as we're concerned, And I hope they're more

457
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: successful than I. It won't be hard for them to

458
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: be because our season ticket numbers were so low. But

459
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: that's how I think about the World Baseball Classic. It's

460
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 2: a great selling opportunity and if you do it right,

461
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: it works, and if all things fall into place, you'll

462
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: have more attendance next year. Again, not what's announced. I'm talking.

463
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: When I say attendance, just so you know, I'm talking

464
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: actual revenue, and that's always hidden from all of you.

465
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: We can make up, as you know I did. I

466
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 2: made up the attendance every single game, so you can

467
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 2: say that the attendance goes up next year, But that's

468
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: not the relevant question. The relevant question will be what

469
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: is the revenue, because that's how you know how much

470
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: money can be put into payroll.

471
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 5: Somebody.

472
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: I was always curious, you know, when I was a

473
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 4: fan during your ten years sort of lack of investment

474
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 4: towards the international market. You guys were never big players.

475
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 4: When it came to the international signing periods, I know

476
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 4: you guys were close to getting Joseo Brew at one point.

477
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 4: Just how close was he in particular since he's a

478
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: free agent now, and just why were you guys never

479
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 4: on top of that market as well?

480
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 2: We were amazingly close to getting in Cesspitous. We went down,

481
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: we went down to meet with him, and we just

482
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: got outbid at the last minute by a very little amount.

483
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: We did well internationally over the years, but back then

484
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: it's way different than it was now. Back then it

485
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: was the wild, wild West. So we were competing with

486
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: teams who had an international budget of twenty or thirty

487
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: million in Our international budget was like three or four million.

488
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: Because again, given a choice, I would always say, let's

489
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: invest in the major league product where players can perform now,

490
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: instead of investing in sixteen year olds where the odds

491
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: are you're gonna have a hard time doing it now.

492
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 2: The Astros are a great example of a team who

493
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: signed a bunch of players and they ended up on

494
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 2: their World Series roster this year. But if you look

495
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: at the makeup of rock Usters, not so many players

496
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: come from the international system. But that said, everybody's capped now,

497
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: so everyone's equal, and that's a huge, huge difference.

498
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: What I'm wondering is something that has been kind of

499
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: a theme on Nothing Personal, about instances where you felt

500
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: that employees in the Marvelins organization, whether it's players, whether

501
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: it's coaches or something, kind of leaped behind your back

502
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: to go straight to Jeffrey to get things that they

503
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: wanted to get things done that they want to get done,

504
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: just for people that aren't familiar. Could you give just

505
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: some examples of what that happens, like in instances where

506
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: that happens, and how prevalent do you think that is

507
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: in baseball right now in terms of owners that are

508
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: that same way in that they are going outside the

509
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: normal structure of things to give things to their employees

510
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: that are when they ask pretty please for something that

511
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: owners will cave in like that.

512
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: Well, it's not just that it's about players, it's about signings.

513
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: You saw that Jim Crane just fire James Click of

514
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: the World Series winning astros got fired because he didn't

515
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: like what James Click was doing, and James Clinton didn't

516
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: like that other people in your organization had a bigger

517
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 2: voice than he did.

518
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 3: He felt that it undercut him.

519
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: Think about wherever you work, whatever business you're in, if

520
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: you manage someone and that person goes running to your

521
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 2: boss instead of you explain to me what your reaction

522
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: would be. How would you feel if you got called

523
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: into an office by your boss and your boss says, hey,

524
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 2: do this, and you say, well, where does that come from?

525
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: And he says, just do this, and then you find

526
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: out that that idea came from someone who's supposed to

527
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 2: report to you. I can promise you what your reaction

528
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: would be, and it would be negative. So when players

529
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: wanted something in the clubhouse, they knew that Jeffrey would

530
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: do anything for players, so they would ask for these

531
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: things like a hyperbaric chamber, some sort of equipment, or

532
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: some such stuff that they liked to have, whether Heath

533
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: Bell liked certain equipment, or Michael Morse wanted a piece

534
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: of equipment, and they knew that I would say no,

535
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: and that Larry and Michael would say no, they'd go

536
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: to Jeffrey.

537
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: Jeffrey would say yes.

538
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 2: Jeffrey would come to us and say, hey, get this

539
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: piece of equipment, and we'd be well, that's not in

540
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: the budget.

541
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 3: He'd say it do it, well, Jeffrey, you're gonna write

542
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 3: the check for it. I don't care.

543
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: Just do it.

544
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: It'll make the players happier and better. That's one instance.

545
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: The second is when.

546
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: People who report to the GM, and there are people

547
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: who did this a lot. They reported to the GM,

548
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: but they would go around the GM to Jeffrey and

549
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: talk about players. Hey, we should sign that guy. Let's

550
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: sign John Buck, Let's sign Jared Salt to Lamachia. Let's

551
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: trade for this player. Let's trade for Matt Latos, let's

552
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: trade Luis Castillo. All of those things would go to Jeffrey.

553
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: He didn't come up with that. He wasn't running the team,

554
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: but he listened to people below, Mike Kill and Larry Bonfest,

555
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: and those people had ideas.

556
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: Some were good, some were not. But I never cared

557
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 3: about the result of the idea.

558
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: I cared about the process in which it happened, because

559
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: that process leads to dysfunction, and that function leads to problems.

560
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 4: David, you've gone on record saying that the location of

561
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 4: the ballpark was maybe something that you regretted a bit.

562
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 4: I was wondering, as president, what were some of your

563
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 4: biggest regrets? You know, when you were running the Marlins

564
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 4: every single day.

565
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: My biggest regrets, if we can further define that word,

566
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, regret, is something that I had

567
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: control over that I did that I would do differently

568
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: were I to do it again. Can we use that

569
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: as the definition? Absolutely, I think that's a good one, right,

570
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: So Bonds is not in that category. What I had

571
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: control over are things that I did, like in two

572
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: thoy and twelve when before the season started, when I

573
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: gave a speech at the Beacon Council and that speech

574
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: was not received well and there were misunderstandings about what

575
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: was said, and it was my fault because I wasn't clear,

576
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: and that got a lot of press, bad press, and

577
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: that impacted the team.

578
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: I regret that. I regret threatening the way I did

579
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: to move the team.

580
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: I could have done it in a much less public way,

581
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: and I could have been less Again I'm using the

582
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: word robotic again. I could have been less robotic about

583
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: how I communicated to fans because they felt I didn't

584
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: care whether the Marlins were in Miami, and I did.

585
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: I wanted them in Miami. I lived there, I was

586
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: raising my family there. I didn't want to go to

587
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: Texas or Vegas or Portland or anywhere. I wanted to

588
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: be there because my kids were young and I loved it.

589
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: So I regret how I did that. I regret how

590
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: I did the trade of Miguel Cabrera, not the actual trade,

591
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: because there was nothing I could do about that. We

592
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: were trying to get a new ballpark, and when we

593
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: didn't get it, we had to lower the payroll, would

594
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: I regret, and we weren't going to sign them, and

595
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: so therefore the baseball people said, your best value will

596
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: be now. I regret being unable to get the ballpark

597
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: in the time that I thought we'd get it, which

598
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 2: would have made Miguel Cabrera the Jean Carlos Stanton. We

599
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: would been able to sign Miguel Cabrera and had the

600
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: stadium open, you know, five years earlier. So I regret

601
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: how that went down. But again from a baseball standpoint,

602
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: every baseball person said, if you can get Maybon and Miller,

603
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, and you have to trade Cabrera, you make

604
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: that trade.

605
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: They were two of the top prospects at that time.

606
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: I regret the fact that.

607
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: It took extra years to get the ballpark because of

608
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: all of the lawsuits from Norman Brayman and all of

609
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: the craziness that happened.

610
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: But now I look back and realize.

611
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 2: Look what Oakland and Tampa are going through and how

612
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: many years it's taken them, and look at what some

613
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: of the other cities do in order to get a

614
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: ballpark built. It's damn hard. And if I weren't the

615
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: face of it, I might not have had you with

616
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: a word of the day of turbulent.

617
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 4: Right.

618
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: If it were someone else who is the public face

619
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: of the franchise, if it were someone else who were

620
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: not the you know, the foil, the bad guy, then

621
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: maybe I would have had a different reputation. And that

622
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: I've had to rebuild over these past five years, right,

623
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're talking, which we are. I started

624
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: from negative ten when I left the Marlins and joined

625
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: CBS and started nothing personal because so many people associated

626
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: me with such anger and had forgotten any pleasure that

627
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: may have been derived from three any goodwill was gone,

628
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: and I had to start over and build that again.

629
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: And for that, you know, I am terribly sorry, not

630
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: just to fans but to my agent who had to

631
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: put up with so much crap.

632
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: No, but in all seriousness. I wish that I had.

633
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: Of course, I wish I'd been better liked and more popular, right, Like,

634
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: who doesn't want that? But I wasn't able to be

635
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: because I had to do my job, And I wish

636
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: I'd been better at being able to both do my

637
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: job and be better liked and.

638
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: Going about your everyday life. At this point, now, five

639
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: years move, do you feel that some people have forgiven you,

640
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: or maybe you've converted people just because of your contents,

641
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: or maybe they hold up your track record compared to

642
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: these last five years under newhealth, which, frankly, yeah, when

643
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: you compare them heads ahead, it's it's hard to give

644
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: a clear edge to this new group and most of

645
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: their senses. Yeah, I'm curious about having it's time.

646
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: It's coming right, so time heals all wounds and I

647
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: didn't disappear. I do content every day, and many people

648
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: it's it's it used to be when Nothing Personal started.

649
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: For the first month, about ninety five percent of the

650
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: listeners were from Florida, and it was, Hey, you know,

651
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: let's listen to what this terrible guy has to say

652
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: and then we'll hate it. Now Florida's like four percent

653
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: of the show, and so the people around the country,

654
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: they don't associate me with the Marlins. So the people

655
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: who are listening around the world, I get a report

656
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: from all the countries where nothing personal has an audience.

657
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: They don't know anything about my life other than me

658
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: being at CBS and being a former team president with

659
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: the World Series Ring. But I think that what I

660
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: hear a lot when I'm in Miami now are people

661
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: who have perspective on it, and that perspective only came

662
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: because of Jeter. So for that, I love him because

663
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: he came in and said, God, these David.

664
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: Sampson was the worst.

665
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to do everything the opposite and we're going

666
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: to be successful. We're going to get it done, and

667
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: we'll show you how bad he was. Meanwhile, five years later,

668
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 2: you know he wasn't able to do it and then

669
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: got removed. So I think that a lot of things

670
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: have come together. Plus I've gotten older, I've changed, you know,

671
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: I'm more emotional, I've got I've evolved and become more

672
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: understanding of what I was doing, what it was like

673
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: in my thirties and forties now that I'm in my fifties.

674
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: So I think you put all that together, and it

675
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: makes me more relatable, and it makes people want to

676
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: listen to the content more, which again provides more time

677
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: and space between what it was as president versus who

678
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: I am now as a content provider.

679
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 4: Speaking of you know, emotion, I think you know, obviously

680
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 4: you and Donnie, you guys dealt with one of the

681
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 4: you know, biggest tragedies in sports history.

682
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: You know.

683
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 4: I just was asking, if you know, I know we're

684
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 4: short on time a little bit, just if you can

685
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 4: maybe walk us through the morning of September twenty fifth,

686
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 4: And if that moment, I don't know whether Jeffrey was

687
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: already thinking of selling the team, if that maybe push

688
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 4: him towards doing so a little bit quicker than you

689
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 4: would have initially. Just maybe, just if you can whatever

690
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: you can share with us the morning of September twenty fifth,

691
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: how the teams that you know, the game was canceled,

692
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 4: but you know what helps handled it end.

693
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 3: I think about that every day.

694
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: I was excited for that day because we were celebrating

695
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: each row's three thousandth hit. The a special day, and

696
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: it was an afternoon game, and I slept at that

697
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: time with my phone on which I regret if you

698
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: asked me a list of regrets, that would be a regret.

699
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: But the phone rang very early, and it was my kill,

700
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: and I knew something was wrong because he doesn't call

701
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: me that early to say hello or ask me what

702
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: I'm doing. And I assumed it was a dui or

703
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: or some sort of employee or player who had a dui.

704
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 2: That's generally the calls you get in the middle of

705
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: the night or really early in the morning. And he answered,

706
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: I said hello, and his voice just sounded different, and

707
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: then he said, I'm conferencing in an officer.

708
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: So I said, that's strange.

709
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know why he'd be doing that,

710
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 2: But when you conference someone in, you know, there's silence

711
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: for a minute while he's merging the call. So I

712
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: couldn't say, hey, what why because.

713
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: It happened like that.

714
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: And then there was someone from Fish and Wildlife who

715
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 2: was at the scene of an accident telling me about

716
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: at least one player who's dead, and I didn't even

717
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 2: it couldn't be, and I was told that it was

718
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: Jose Fernandez, and I said, well, no, you know you've

719
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: got the wrong And this was me being white, right,

720
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 2: I said, there's a million. Jose Fernandez's in Miami. There's

721
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: no way this is our player, and we I had

722
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: to identify him. I said, I remember saying this so clearly.

723
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: I said, does this person have a tattoo on their leg?

724
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: Jose had a bicycle what's that called the bicycle chain,

725
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: the thing where the gears are, a gear chain was

726
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: tattooed on his leg. And the answer was yes. And

727
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: I just remember my brain exploding and I went right

728
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: to I went right into action, and I think back

729
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: on that all the time, and I don't know why.

730
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 3: That happened.

731
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: But I immediately woke up my wife and said, Jose

732
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: Fernandez is dead.

733
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: I have to go.

734
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: And I didn't say anything more to her, like I

735
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: didn't even I didn't even talk to her. I got

736
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: in the shower, I picked up my kill who lived

737
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: near me. I said, we have to go to the ballpark.

738
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I could think of to do.

739
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: And for the rest of that day and the next day,

740
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: there's no playbook for it, right, I just tried to

741
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: figure out what we were going to do next. Because

742
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: I was in charge of everything that happened. And I'm

743
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: still in touch with Penelope, his daughter and Maria, his

744
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: fiance when he died, and she is a beautiful little girl, and.

745
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 3: It was just terrible.

746
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: I don't I don't even know what else to say

747
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: about it. But you'd think that it will get better.

748
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: And I'm sad to tell you, and I'm working through this.

749
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make it better, but it doesn't get better.

750
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: I don't feel better about it. I regret. You know,

751
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: I didn't put this in my list of regrets, but

752
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: I regret. You asked me why I have a personal

753
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: problem with Scott Boris. You know, Scott Boris convinced us

754
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: to not pitch him on Sunday and to pitch him Monday.

755
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 2: He was due to pitch that day, and we moved

756
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: him back a day because he had pitched extra pitches

757
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, and Scott Bors called all angry and sanctimonious,

758
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: and we compromised and said, all right, we'll pitch him

759
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: Monday against the Mets instead of Sunday against the Braves.

760
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: And you know, he wouldn't have gone out Saturday night

761
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 3: obviously if he were pitching Sunday.

762
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: So anyway, yeah, that final topic that we wanted to

763
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: get you out here on David was a big picture

764
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: the viability of major League Baseball in a market like Miami.

765
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: Because you got into this on a nothing personal recently

766
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: in a mailbag about touching on the lack of corporate

767
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: sponsors about the nature of the population. For anybody that

768
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: didn't hear that, I thought was an interesting way to

769
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: articulate what makes this a unique market. It's not a

770
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: teeny tiny market. It doesn't feel like from as far

771
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: as we could tell, it's hard to understand why this

772
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: team under different owners is consistently at the very bottom

773
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: in terms of revenue. So if you could briefly just

774
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: like touch on why you think this is a difficult

775
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: market to growth game in.

776
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's next man up right. Wayne heizinga one of

777
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: the richest men in the country. John Henry one of

778
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: the richest men in the country. You had Jeffrey, you

779
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: had Bruce Sherman. So there's been four owners in the

780
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: history of the Marlins and they've each found the same difficulty.

781
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: And the difficulty is in trying to get people to

782
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 2: attend games, whether it was a pro player or now

783
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: at Marlins Park and or Lone Depot Park. And I

784
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,439
Speaker 2: think the reason that there's a misunderstanding about the market

785
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: in Miami. It seems it's a very hip, very cool market.

786
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: People love baseball, quote unquote, there's a huge Cuban population.

787
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: There's partying going on. It's an event driven town. But

788
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the summer is not

789
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: a great time in Florida and people leave. So the DMA,

790
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: the demographics in Florida, the richest people are not there

791
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: during the summer.

792
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: They go north for the summer. That's number one. Number

793
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: two in terms.

794
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: Of cities, Miami is horrific. As far as corporate membership.

795
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 2: There are no big companies in Miami. What's the biggest one.

796
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 2: Carnival guess what? They sponsor the Heat because they're owned

797
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: by the guy who owns the Heat. Burger King, forget it.

798
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: Burger King is made up of franchises. A guy who

799
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: owns a Burger King in Alabama doesn't want to have

800
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: the money from marketing for Burger King spent at Marlin's

801
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: Park or anywhere. They do totally different sort of co

802
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: op advertising rider same thing. That's sort of a it's

803
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: not a huge corporate sponsor. So we were never able

804
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: to find and there aren't any local companies who are

805
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: based in Miami who want to by the way, FTX,

806
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: are they heat happy with that one?

807
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: Right?

808
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: So it's where are the companies, the blue chip companies

809
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: that are naming other buildings in other places, like banks

810
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: where they're based in Ohio or in Milwaukee.

811
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Right.

812
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: The beer in Milwaukee Miller Park, that's not a coincidence

813
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: that it was called Miller Park. Miller was brewed in Milwaukee,

814
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: and guess what when it wasn't brewed in Milwaukee, they

815
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 2: changed the name of the ballpark. They don't play at

816
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: Miller Park anymore. So there's all sorts of reasons. But

817
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we don't win enough.

818
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: So until they win at Marlins Park and don't draw,

819
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: then Miami is not a viable market if that happens.

820
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: Where there's a sustained open window, where there's playoff appearances,

821
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: and I don't mean in a COVID shortened season, I

822
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: mean where you are a wild card or a division

823
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: winner and you're in the playoffs three out of five

824
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: years and you make a deep run, maybe win a

825
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: World championship.

826
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: That would be amazing, but not required.

827
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: And still the season ticket base is so small and

828
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: the corporate revenue is so small, then I think you're

829
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: going to have a problem in Miami.

830
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: So that new TV deal is finally kicked in. Yes,

831
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: they did get naming right now sponsored to the ballpark.

832
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: They jersey patches are coming in the future as well,

833
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: additional revenue from over there, and really speaking on a

834
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: national level, you know, the revenue that is shared is

835
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: probably more substantial than even when you were running the team.

836
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 3: Right, Oh for sure.

837
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: I mean it's a huge industry now. I love that

838
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: they're embracing gambling. I'd love to see a sports book

839
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: at Marlins Park, you know, anything to increase revenue. I

840
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: think a big misconception. I love the Marlins, I love Miami.

841
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 2: I want the Marlins twin. I want to be part

842
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: of a franchise because I'm part of its history. I

843
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 2: want to be part. Yeah, they won a World Series

844
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: under Dombrowski, they won a World Series Understamps, and they

845
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: won a World Series under Next and under Next, like

846
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: just part of the narrative as people look back over

847
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 2: one hundred years of Marlin's history. I'd love to be

848
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: a small part of a successful history. And you know,

849
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: now I'm part of one of two championships. Happy to

850
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,959
Speaker 2: be part of one of ten championships that'd be so cool,

851
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 2: or to be part of You don't think that I

852
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: want Marlins Park sold out every day. Oh my god,

853
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: that's my dream for it to be sold out every

854
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: day so people can enjoy the park that I had

855
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: a small hand in making real and having had it built.

856
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: So I do want all things, and I still love

857
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: the Marlins. As a matter of fact, you can't see

858
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: it now because we're on whatever we're on. But I

859
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: have a blazer on and a shirt, but on my bottom,

860
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 2: I have shorts. I'm wearing my Marlin shorts.

861
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: So I still wear I actually probably not the new logo, right,

862
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: probably the old new shorts. Let's see. Oh wow, all right,

863
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: all right, No, he's telling the truth for people that

864
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: are just listening. He is a legit wearing those.

865
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 2: Sho and I didn't wear, by the way, I didn't

866
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: wear him because I'm doing this show. Like I don't

867
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: have different shorts for different shows. This is just today's Thursday,

868
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: and these are my Thursday shorts. So I love the

869
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: Marlins and I care about them, and I love the fans.

870
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: I love going back to Miami. I'll be in Miami.

871
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: I don't know when you're releasing this, but I'm going

872
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: to Moss Miami, which is the LeBatard event on December tenth,

873
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: so I'll be there. And I love being a part

874
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: of the community still and from a charitable standpoint, I

875
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: just love it.

876
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm appreciative of the opportunity to come on your show.

877
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one differently than expected, to be honest, David,

878
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: this was very insightful and we appreciate the transparency and

879
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: have reflective you were Eli Susman, Isaac Gazood. It's been

880
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: the long road for Isaac. We could go back about

881
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: a decade ago and there he is standing shoulder for

882
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: shoulder with you before he fully hit puberty. What do

883
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: we think, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen, So this.

884
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 4: Must have been twenty twelve that I was that small.

885
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 4: So because the following year I was fortunate of Dan Jenny's,

886
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 4: the executive then manager, was able to somehow let me

887
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 4: be bab when I think goes a little bit younger

888
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 4: than when I was in twenty thirteen, So that has

889
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 4: to be twenty twelve with you, David.

890
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: That's awesome, that's cool. To say thank you for showing.

891
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: Me that David Samson. Nothing personal with David Samson. You

892
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: could get it everywhere you get your pods and this

893
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: was awesome. We we didn't get everything, so maybe we'll

894
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: have you back in the future.

895
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 3: I look forward to it. Have a great day. Thank you.